#437

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The Counsel of Trent

The Counsel of Trent

Күн бұрын

In this episode Trent reviews Steven Crowder’s claims that Pope Francis is a communist because of what the pontiff said at a “Vax Live” event.
Patreon: / counseloftrent
Show Resources:
“The Last Straw For The COMMUNIST POPE... | Louder With Crowder” - • The Last Straw For The...
“A message from Pope Francis at VAX LIVE: The Concert to Reunite the World” - • A message from Pope Fr...

Пікірлер: 677
@pilatus96
@pilatus96 3 жыл бұрын
The early Church was CATHOLIC, change my mind
@timfirst3536
@timfirst3536 3 жыл бұрын
Nope, you're right, brother!
@lullabiesofthedusk
@lullabiesofthedusk 2 жыл бұрын
Haha I've been watching those particular videos of him recently
@Kostas_Dikefalaios
@Kostas_Dikefalaios 2 жыл бұрын
Catholic + Orthodox*
@paulnolack297
@paulnolack297 2 жыл бұрын
@@Kostas_Dikefalaios no, there was eastern Catholic, and Latin Catholic. It is still the same today, orthodoxy Is a heresy that broke off in the 11th century.
@Kostas_Dikefalaios
@Kostas_Dikefalaios 2 жыл бұрын
@@paulnolack297 Eastern Catholicism disproves Rome haha. Two different creeds and you guys still claim to be one and the same? Dont make me laugh. It was Catholicism that broke off in the 11th century not the other way around. Rome got power hungry.
@kaiarington4796
@kaiarington4796 3 жыл бұрын
Hi, I’m a Catholic who watches both you and Crowder🙂 I would LOVE to have you send Crowder an invite to your own version of a “change my mind” segment! It would be…”The Catholic Church is the one true Church, change my mind”. Love all that you do!
@Anyone690
@Anyone690 3 жыл бұрын
This would be must see tv. Dave Landau could moderate
@kaiarington4796
@kaiarington4796 3 жыл бұрын
@@Anyone690 YESSS!!!
@surabra
@surabra 3 жыл бұрын
Crowder is not qualified for that
@kaiarington4796
@kaiarington4796 3 жыл бұрын
@@surabra right….so the rolls would be reversed. Crowder would be on the other side of the table.
@Joshua-se5sm
@Joshua-se5sm 3 жыл бұрын
I agree completely! A Catholic Crowder would be awesome
@epriley891
@epriley891 3 жыл бұрын
I've tried several times to enjoy Crowder's show, but ultimately I find him to be immature, mean spirited, and overly sensitive.
@jd3jefferson556
@jd3jefferson556 2 жыл бұрын
I thought the same thing when I tried to watch him
@ne0nmancer
@ne0nmancer Жыл бұрын
How does it feel to be right in hindsight?
@chasedudek3136
@chasedudek3136 Жыл бұрын
His wife agrees lol
@epriley891
@epriley891 Жыл бұрын
@@ne0nmancer it feels pretty good, especially because I was right in foresight as well.
@frenlyfire
@frenlyfire Жыл бұрын
@@epriley891based
@kingofmaglos3
@kingofmaglos3 3 жыл бұрын
When I watched this clip from Crowder I was wondering what your response would be to it in my head. What a pleasant surprise it was to see this video in my feed
@Againstfascist
@Againstfascist 3 жыл бұрын
I was super excited. No doubt.
@michaelroy6630
@michaelroy6630 3 жыл бұрын
My exact thought!
@MrPeach1
@MrPeach1 3 жыл бұрын
Trent needs to up his books behind him. If you don't have a massive library behind you how will people know you are smart.
@saintsm
@saintsm 3 жыл бұрын
Lol I guess that's why most apologists shoots video in library.
@lonelyberg1808
@lonelyberg1808 3 жыл бұрын
Ahaha
@lukehayner3202
@lukehayner3202 3 жыл бұрын
Trent doesn’t need books to look smart. 😁
@HerotPM
@HerotPM 3 жыл бұрын
It's true. But books are also useful for helping with accoustics for talks.
@ArmchairPhilosopher360
@ArmchairPhilosopher360 3 жыл бұрын
Not only does Michael Lofton of Reason & Theology have an impressive looking library behind him, he even has a ladder. You know you have reached baller status when your library has a ladder. And Mike Winger tricks out his library with blue neon lights, too.
@thedon978
@thedon978 3 жыл бұрын
I stopped watch Crowder because of his anti-Catholic remarks and mockeries. He’s not simply anti-Bergoglio; he’s actually antiCatholic.
@ChristisKing82
@ChristisKing82 3 жыл бұрын
How is he anti Catholic because he is calling out a bad Pope?
@MagnificentXXBastard
@MagnificentXXBastard 3 жыл бұрын
@@ChristisKing82 Whats so bad about this pope?
@basicin4mationvlog293
@basicin4mationvlog293 3 жыл бұрын
@@ChristisKing82 what do you mean bad pope? Have seen you're saying it?
@loretomorales2518
@loretomorales2518 3 жыл бұрын
Yes, He is.
@andrewferg8737
@andrewferg8737 2 жыл бұрын
@@ChristisKing82 Shame on you.
@halleylujah247
@halleylujah247 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for your input on this matter. I appreciate that you broke it down and explained it thoroughly.
@rb8826
@rb8826 3 жыл бұрын
The Pope putting on a health summit with Chelsea Clinton, Bill Gates, Pfizer, etc as the prominent guests makes me pause for concern.........
@yourboieb4477
@yourboieb4477 Жыл бұрын
Jesus met with tax collectors and prostitutes, not to approve of their sinful ways, but to call them to repentance, even if subtlety. It would be logical to assume this is what Pope Francis is doing. If you reject Pope Francis for meeting with these people, you'd have to reject Pope Leo the Great for meeting with Attila the Hun, and any other Pope who has met with evil or waywardly people. As Trent says in the video, we have give the judgment of charity and not assume things from the little information we know. To make such quick harsh rash is dishonest, cowardly, evil, and repugnant, and the one who does it is a child of Satan.
@SP-td9xj
@SP-td9xj 14 күн бұрын
​@yourboieb4477 what's more, you can disagree with the pope meeting these people and it still says nothing of his legitimacy or authority as pope
@OrthoLou
@OrthoLou 3 жыл бұрын
I would LOVE it if Trent was a guest of Louder With Crowder. For anything, really, but a Protestant-Catholic debate would be excellent. He's never had a worthy opponent in that regard lol.
@maxwhite4177
@maxwhite4177 3 жыл бұрын
Yeah. To my knowledge, he's only ever had a single Catholic guest on his show, and even then they were mostly discussing things they both agreed on.
@OrthoLou
@OrthoLou 3 жыл бұрын
@@maxwhite4177 he had on Michael Voris. While I really love the guy and his network, he's not a good choice for debating the faith. Both he and Crowder are hot heads and they kinda just talked AT each other lol.
@OrthoLou
@OrthoLou 3 жыл бұрын
@Zachary Trent I mean that all depends on who he's debating. He's very good at it, when it comes to other matters, but he's never debated a Catholic who is actually good at debates.
@corporateshill7473
@corporateshill7473 3 жыл бұрын
He avoids worthy opponents.
@sisko3893
@sisko3893 3 жыл бұрын
@@OrthoLou Let's be clear, Steven Crowder would get pummeled if he debated any Catholic apologist. On top of that, he is not a respectable person.
@Againstfascist
@Againstfascist 3 жыл бұрын
Trent Horn is the man to talk about this.
@criticalbruv
@criticalbruv 3 жыл бұрын
Trent Horn is just the man in general.
@meredithwoodard215
@meredithwoodard215 3 жыл бұрын
Worlds colliding! I started to become more politically conservative around the time I started converting to Catholicism, so I've been listening to Crowder and Trent about the same amount of time. Thanks for addressing this, Trent, I think it would be really cool if Steven did have you on to discuss!
@christophlindinger2267
@christophlindinger2267 3 жыл бұрын
Crowder should apologise, he was way off. After he apologised, sure, let them talk.
@johnnotrealname8168
@johnnotrealname8168 3 жыл бұрын
Crowder is not a conservative. He is a liberal from 50 years ago, which is better than the Republicans who are liberals from 10 years ago, except GDP goo to the moon. Read some Joseph Marie, Comte de Maistre.
@GratiaPrima_
@GratiaPrima_ 3 жыл бұрын
Welcome home!
@ChMystery12
@ChMystery12 3 жыл бұрын
I've been a fan of Crowder since long before I discovered Trent's work and would love to see them talk to each other. Unfortunately, as much as I do like Crowder I don't think he is very interested in any real substantive religious debates. His show operates much more in the political sphere
@Zechs-lt4wx
@Zechs-lt4wx Жыл бұрын
Steven Crowder attacks the Holy Father and beats his wife…..
@romariomendes9366
@romariomendes9366 3 жыл бұрын
Hey Trent. Thanks a ton for this video! From India. Pray for us.
@tdemiche
@tdemiche 3 жыл бұрын
More I listen to this Pope, I see him more in connection to Catholic teachings. Smear campaign against him is strong, and lots of scandalous misinformation is promoted. There is a saying: "Behind the good horse, dust rises"
@JuanRamirez-di9bl
@JuanRamirez-di9bl 3 жыл бұрын
I was all against Pope Francis because of Pachamama... then I read Laudato si, and felt like you. Then everybody was saying he said he supported LGBTQ’s but when listening to his interview, it was a mistranslation from Spanish to English (My first language is Spanish!) I couldn’t believe how they could have missed that translation!!! And accused him unfairly... then I read about Archbishop Vigano and now I have mixed emotions, we do need to pray for our Priests and Bishops!
@timfirst3536
@timfirst3536 3 жыл бұрын
@@JuanRamirez-di9bl Archbishop Vigano makes strong claims that seem to be backed up. If I might share this video that goes over said claims kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qMienMKB0c2-lJc.html Pax Christi -
@Jamesmatise
@Jamesmatise 3 жыл бұрын
The game afoot played by the media is that when the Pope affirms traditional teaching, the media generally ignores it, and when he makes a pastoral comment that can be taken out of context to promote a "progressive" ideology, they blast it out all over the place.
@richvestal767
@richvestal767 3 жыл бұрын
The Pope at times comes too close to Liberation Theology in many of his statements and there is a lot of Hegelian dialecticism in his musings that make me seriously concerned.
@tdemiche
@tdemiche 3 жыл бұрын
@@richvestal767 I agree that Hegelianism is something that should be rooted out of Church and society. Gradually it has changed cultures and generations. It is main philosophical cause for for atrocities of 19th a 20th century. And it was already condemned heresy better known as modernism. We need to pray for the pope and church, be tolerant of people, not their nonsense.
@aceraphael
@aceraphael 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for making this video, Trent
@davidvelazquez5877
@davidvelazquez5877 2 жыл бұрын
I love our pope. Well said Trent.
@faithofourfathers
@faithofourfathers 3 жыл бұрын
Crowder, a “Christian”, thrusting double middle fingers in the air appears very un-Christian in this gesture. Change my mind. 🤔
@LauraBeeDannon
@LauraBeeDannon 3 жыл бұрын
He's not a mature Christian. Why doesn't he have kids?
@chrisvalenzuela7911
@chrisvalenzuela7911 3 жыл бұрын
I hate to be the one to say this because who am I to judge. But most of these political figures (commentators, politicians) that claim to be Christian/Catholic only use religion as a tool against their political opponent. It's not like alot of them actually care about their faith. They only care enough as long as it can be used as something that'll help them distinguish themselves even more from their political opponent. It's all in the political game for them. It's only natural for our faith to inform our political decisions. But these guys are really just the opposite, they have their policies ideology, and they use faith as a tool to try to help that ideology. Honestly, I feel these guys are a big reason why faith and religion have been so unattractive to people now. We need more people like Trent, Bishop Barron, etc.
@jendoe9436
@jendoe9436 3 жыл бұрын
@LauraBeeDannon I don’t think pointing out his lack of kids is the best response. Crowder said several months ago he and his wife were expecting twins after numerous years of medical issues and miscarriages. I can say minor issues with his faith formation and articulation, but wouldn’t call out the offspring thing as even our host Trent has talked about having issues as well.
@richard_the_sinner
@richard_the_sinner 3 жыл бұрын
@Frances As a Catholic, you know that this is False witness and calumny. Go to Reconciliation.
@chrisvalenzuela7911
@chrisvalenzuela7911 3 жыл бұрын
@Frances the irony in your comment. wow.
@shawnmathew6078
@shawnmathew6078 3 жыл бұрын
Awesome stuff Trent!
@johnhoelzeman6683
@johnhoelzeman6683 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for telling that story about your wife and you meeting the Pope, we need to hear more stories like that rather than the divisive crap we're fed
@tflics
@tflics 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for another good video. This is quickly becoming my favorite channel.
@Dannyboy0202
@Dannyboy0202 3 жыл бұрын
Yes yes yes I'm so glad you done this video
@TeresaYanarosOfficial
@TeresaYanarosOfficial 3 жыл бұрын
This is my first video of Trent’s. Excellent commentary!
@jayreid6592
@jayreid6592 3 жыл бұрын
He's guilty of doing the very thing he's criticizing Crowder about.
@taylorcanon8890
@taylorcanon8890 3 жыл бұрын
@@jayreid6592 I think everyone is guilty of doing that in some way or another at some time.
@flamesfan1417
@flamesfan1417 3 жыл бұрын
Much of the video was just typical anti-Catholic ridicule. PS, Trent’s story about his wife’s bridal tiara and Pope Francis was spectacular!
@Kitiwake
@Kitiwake 3 жыл бұрын
Must be heavily influenced by Church Militant
@flamesfan1417
@flamesfan1417 3 жыл бұрын
@@Kitiwake unfortunately, many Catholic news outlets on both sides of the spectrum seem to cause a lot of scandal
@ianlilley2577
@ianlilley2577 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for notifying me, I can now ignore this video. I had low expectations since its steven crowder. But maybe I'll watch it later, regularly hear left wingers tell me my religion is evil maybe it will be refreshing to hear right wingers spew shit.
@ianlilley2577
@ianlilley2577 3 жыл бұрын
@@flamesfan1417 aren't most of them very partisan? Like either being like Catholicism Progressivism or Republicanism editon? When both ideologies go against Catholicism?
@flamesfan1417
@flamesfan1417 3 жыл бұрын
@@ianlilley2577 that’s the impression that I get, like there’s an agenda that they have, and because Pope Francis sometimes speaks somewhat ambiguously, both sides twist his words to fit their agenda. It’s been disheartening when conservatives are so uncharitable towards the Holy Father
@aileenbordelon7884
@aileenbordelon7884 3 жыл бұрын
I don’t think Crowder realizes that radical individualism isn’t a conservative value.
@emilio6425
@emilio6425 3 жыл бұрын
You're right in a sense, but I think it depends on how you are speaking of the term. Indivualism in that we are all that matters, and we dont belong to communities is not conservative. It is however conservative to promote that a government rule not according to the collective, but according to the individual, allowing individuals to govern themselves. We should be part of communities, we should live for others, we should take care of our neighbors, but we should do it of our own free will, not as ordered by the government. That's the reason all the last few popes have been anti communism. Communism eliminates charity, bc charity is done with love, not out of fear.
@powerofk
@powerofk 3 жыл бұрын
@@emilio6425 IIRC, Pope St. John Paul II railed against both communism/socialism AND capitalism. And see, that's the thing - the Church does not promote either. In fact, on the surface, some Church teachings seem more similar to Communism/Socialism and some seem more similar to Capitalism. Same with Jesus's teachings. But there is a huge, huge difference. Communism/Socialism and Capitalism both reduce the human person to an object - Communism/Socialism reduces a human person to an object of the state, while Capitalism reduces the human person to an object of the corporation (there is a reason why "Human Resources" is a thing). The big difference with Church teaching? The Church teaches that every human person is individually and uniquely created by the Triune God in His own image and is deserving to be treated according to the dignity granted by that. It is why the Church is both against abortion and for us doing what we can to help the poor and outcast in our communities, because both the unborn and the poor and outcast are human persons created in God's image. Now, we may disagree on what the best methods are in some cases (though anything that intentionally attacks the dignity of life is always wrong), but we must always strive to keep the common good as our common goal.
@emilio6425
@emilio6425 3 жыл бұрын
@@powerofk yeah I agree that church teaching is neither communist, socialist, or capitalist. However I dont think any church teaching is more like communism. Communism removes charity, and capitalism doesn't. A catholic cannot be a socialist or a communist. I guess they also can't be a PURE capitalist in some sense. If your goal is profit for the sake of profit then that would not be very catholic. The difference is that a catholic can't fully be a catholic in a communist society and a catholic can be fully a catholic in a capitalist economic system.
@joelmontero9439
@joelmontero9439 3 жыл бұрын
Btw... Pope Francis is not a communist, I think he's the worst Pope, but because he doesn't have a strong hand against heretics, but he's neither a socialist nor a capitalist ¡Viva Cristo Rey y la Virgen de los ángeles!
@aptivapeople2
@aptivapeople2 3 жыл бұрын
Oh, other thought. Debate of crowder vs Trent on the pope/church!
@LeonMortgage
@LeonMortgage 3 жыл бұрын
That would be great
@michaelharrington6698
@michaelharrington6698 3 жыл бұрын
Might be better to just have a dialogue
@anticoomer
@anticoomer 3 жыл бұрын
Check out Michael Voris vs Crowder
@killianmiller6107
@killianmiller6107 3 жыл бұрын
“The pope is a commie, change my mind”
@aptivapeople2
@aptivapeople2 3 жыл бұрын
@@anticoomer just found it. Will definitely check it out
@duals-growthofculture2085
@duals-growthofculture2085 3 жыл бұрын
Spot on, awesome commentary Sir Trent, Love you brother
@victoriaaltun7425
@victoriaaltun7425 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you Mr. Horn for this! Crowder pushed it too far. And I don’t think I will watch his clips again.
@claudiochad
@claudiochad 3 жыл бұрын
I feel the same way.
@bernardokrolo2275
@bernardokrolo2275 3 жыл бұрын
I cancell my subscription on his chanell imideatly...till now i was convince that i m only one..thanks Victoria
@bernardokrolo2275
@bernardokrolo2275 3 жыл бұрын
@@claudiochad i was allways suspicious abouth him but in this video Crowder shows his ugliest face
@LauraBeeDannon
@LauraBeeDannon 3 жыл бұрын
@@bernardokrolo2275 I unsubscribed when Jared Monroe left.
@LauraBeeDannon
@LauraBeeDannon 3 жыл бұрын
Crowder is a grifter.
@musiconly5976
@musiconly5976 3 жыл бұрын
Wonderful video! Hats off Trent!!!!! Great Job
@kathymoreno667
@kathymoreno667 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you.
@lonedesertfox
@lonedesertfox 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you Mr.Horn!
@LittleFlowerluv
@LittleFlowerluv 3 жыл бұрын
Excellent response.
@jamessalerno4234
@jamessalerno4234 3 жыл бұрын
I like Crowder's change my mind videos but this really just rubs me as immaturity from him.
@ChristisKing82
@ChristisKing82 3 жыл бұрын
The thing is Steven does the fingers on every shows when he thinks it’s BS. He is not giving God the fingers like Trent said.
@DOSHIELD
@DOSHIELD 3 жыл бұрын
I would enjoy seeing/hearing a conversation (rather than a debate) between Trent And Steven.
@corporateshill7473
@corporateshill7473 3 жыл бұрын
12:00 The only place Individualism is a dogma is in the Enlightenment.
@Kitiwake
@Kitiwake 3 жыл бұрын
Yep.. Then in protestantism, masonry, french revolution, Marxism, Russian revolution, republican Spain and wokism.
@aileenbordelon7884
@aileenbordelon7884 3 жыл бұрын
True
@bernardguynunns5658
@bernardguynunns5658 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you Oscar!
@Matt_M516
@Matt_M516 3 жыл бұрын
Such a brilliant, well balanced, calm and respectful response as ever from Trent.
@marmor3957
@marmor3957 3 жыл бұрын
Have you comment on Milo Yiannopoulos's conversion to Catholocism, and also his sayings about the Pope too? I'd love to hear that as well
@LittleFlowerluv
@LittleFlowerluv 3 жыл бұрын
I hope Trent sees this.
@libertasinveritas3198
@libertasinveritas3198 3 жыл бұрын
Milo always was Catholic, he just chose to follow its teachings on homosexuality now. ^^
@marmor3957
@marmor3957 3 жыл бұрын
@@libertasinveritas3198 Well, he was baptized and recognized some truth to Catholicism, but I'm using the term conversion (maybe wrongly, it should be reversion) just to make a distinction between seeing but no living according to the teachings and his renewed life, as to recognizing it and acting upon it. His sayings about the Pope, as a victim of sexual abuse of a clerical, are actually quite disturbing
@libertasinveritas3198
@libertasinveritas3198 3 жыл бұрын
@@marmor3957 Revert is more appropriate, yes. Since conversion would be something entirely different. He always defended the Catholic Church and its teachings - even on homosexuality. He just didn't know how to bear his cross and didn't follow the teachings in that area. Now he apparently found a way to live in celibacy.
@marmor3957
@marmor3957 3 жыл бұрын
@@libertasinveritas3198 Yeah, exactly, maybe I shoud edit it, idk xD So if Trent could comment on Milo's change but also his claims on his book "Dangerous" would be great
@michaelroy6630
@michaelroy6630 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you! I was so disappointed by Crowder's video. The guy who's always so insistent on providing sources for his claims takes a 5 second soundbite in another language and yells "Commie!!!"
@TickleMeElmo55
@TickleMeElmo55 3 жыл бұрын
Crowder just lacks humility and is filled with hubris when he takes potty shots at Catholicism.
@jtjt3622
@jtjt3622 3 жыл бұрын
Disappointed me too .....he owes us an apology’
@zeldapower6096
@zeldapower6096 3 жыл бұрын
Two things: I love the editing of the video, it looks great. Keep it up 2. Thanks for replying to crowder, the thing with his content is that the goal is to make people laugh, so cheap shots can lead to a funnier joke. So But thanks trent, I love it
@mranderson380
@mranderson380 3 жыл бұрын
2:34 that was the most childish thing i have ever seen from Crowder, and i have been watching him over a year...
@LauraBeeDannon
@LauraBeeDannon 3 жыл бұрын
He's gone way downhill since he fired Jared Monroe. His show was good when it was new and he wasn't full of himself.
@corporateshill7473
@corporateshill7473 3 жыл бұрын
Crowder only does change my mind to liberal clown colleges.
@LauraBeeDannon
@LauraBeeDannon 3 жыл бұрын
He's good at debating teenagers.
@aileenbordelon7884
@aileenbordelon7884 3 жыл бұрын
Exactly, he goes for the lowest hanging fruit.
@jendoe9436
@jendoe9436 3 жыл бұрын
He’a also set up in public squares and has had all walks debate with him. Colleges are his more frequent spot as he’s attempting to figure out how young adults are forming their opinions and how they articulate those beliefs. Think sometimes some student groups call him up, but normally it’s at public universities or just near them.
@emilio6425
@emilio6425 3 жыл бұрын
@@LauraBeeDannon yeah that's just silly and inaccurate. He used to always have people on his show for debates, he has been on major new outlets for debates, he tries to get professors to talk with him during change my minds, but they won't. He talks to college students to counter the naussiatingly radical leftist professors. Change my mind isn't a debate, and it isn't about winning. It's about sharing the other side of the story with people who dont ever get it.
@Enne_esse
@Enne_esse 3 жыл бұрын
@@emilio6425 A mojority is low hanging fruit. He doesn't go for equal debates.
@MaytteBarba
@MaytteBarba 3 жыл бұрын
Couldn’t have said that better, Trent 👏
@jayreid6592
@jayreid6592 3 жыл бұрын
He's guilty of doing the very thing he's criticizing Crowder about.
@scurvydog20
@scurvydog20 3 жыл бұрын
I generally agree but the problem is that the pope said suspension of property rights which means he's not talking about the company giving the vaccine he's talking about gov seizing it. It's like saying to help the poor the gov should suspend you property rights and force you to give room and board to a homeless person. Basically the fear is we've seen that there really isn't anything temporary when a gov suspends others rights and all the slippery slope arguments seem to have come true.
@John_Fisher
@John_Fisher 3 жыл бұрын
Can you give a source for where the pope said "suspension of property rights"? In this video (at 18:00) he said "suspension of intellectual property rights" meaning suspending the patents that would prevent others from freely producing more of the vaccine, as Trent discussed, not government seizing physical property from anyone. Or did I miss something?
@scurvydog20
@scurvydog20 3 жыл бұрын
Sorry my language was unclear because I consider intellectual property as part of personal property. The problem with intellectual property is it's so easy to steal without invoking an ethical pause hence why piracy is so common. I could see an argument for eminent domain (not a fan but could see it) but that would require paying the companies. I will admit I jumped the gun a bit but I can see what's happened when the gov temporary suspended right of assembly and how churches are still closed and how they are so unwilling to restore those rights.
@nofragmentado
@nofragmentado 3 жыл бұрын
I admired your calmly way of talking about the subject. Because it really bothers me, especially when this individual said “ Is a lot of Catholics listening and I respect them” then give a middle finger.
@mareeyo1
@mareeyo1 3 жыл бұрын
He became that who he swore to destroy, an emotional reactive person lol
@Irisgomesjmjfaith
@Irisgomesjmjfaith 3 жыл бұрын
@@mareeyo1 I was going to comment the same thing. Crowder needs to grow up. He's stagnating spiritually.
@urawesome4670
@urawesome4670 3 жыл бұрын
He was giving the middle finger to the role of pope and and the idea of being subjective to his authority.
@E.C.2
@E.C.2 3 жыл бұрын
Steven is correct for rejecting Jorge Bergoglio. He's an anti-Pope and leader of the counterfeit Novus Ordo anti-Church. Traditional Chapels independent of Apostate Rome are keeping the true Holy Catholic Faith alive.
@LauraBeeDannon
@LauraBeeDannon 3 жыл бұрын
@@urawesome4670 which is giving the middle finger to a billion Catholics.
@killianmiller6107
@killianmiller6107 3 жыл бұрын
“The pope is not a commie, change my mind”
@von_2.0
@von_2.0 3 жыл бұрын
The clip Crowder focused on reminds me of the phrase "don't think less of yourself, think of yourself less".
@mikeandrews5787
@mikeandrews5787 3 жыл бұрын
I always watch crowder cause I think he’s logical and consistent in many of his arguments. The only thing that bothers me about him is how he’ll mock people often, which can be funny, but often it goes beyond the point of comedy. I think a debate between him and Horn would be awesome. Crowder mentions how only rarely will opponents come on his show and debate him but Horn has offered. Also because I think Crowder is very logical and obviously knows very little about catholic doctrine it might open a door for him to join the church with most history and logical positions like I did. I was once a Protestant hateful anticatholic until I actually looked in catholic doctrine which is so rich and founded in history and scripture. Most people that hate the Catholic Church hate what they falsely think it is, not what it truly is. Horn would give crowder a run for his money :)
@jendoe9436
@jendoe9436 3 жыл бұрын
It’s been a few months, but I seem to recall Steven mentioning he actually went to Catholic school while he was in Canada. Not sure specifically if there was something that led him away, but in a special with some pastor he said something along the lines of “I considered myself a bit Catholic until I read the Bible.” So maybe poor faith formation? Usual rebellion? He made a comment once about him having trouble in school cause he was having trouble understanding French, which is what the classes were taught in. Not sure if that was at the Catholic school or somewhere, but could be another reason.
@mikeandrews5787
@mikeandrews5787 3 жыл бұрын
Jen Doe I didn’t know he had a Catholic background. Thanks for sharing. I’ve found many Catholics convert to Protestantism like I did and my whole family because “we actually read the Bible” and now understood Catholicism to be heretic and Protestantism to be right. The reality was we all had very little grounding in our catholic faith and were easily convinced it was a blasphemous interpretation of the Bible when we were totally misguided. Sadly, many Catholics leave the faith like I did. Thank God for my now wife who God used to bring me back.
@jendoe9436
@jendoe9436 3 жыл бұрын
@@mikeandrews5787 like I said, not sure long he was at Catholic school or if he practiced any of it outside of school, but there is that slight background. I’m a cradle Catholic who was meh about my faith until I made the effort to learn more. Know several people who either grew to love the faith like me or are content with what they know. And I know Catholics who got swayed by the “Only Jesus and the Bible!” rhetoric. All sorts in this world. Forgot who originally said it, but a popukar quote for Catholic apologists is “People hate what they THINK the Catholic church is, not what the Church ACTUALLY is.” Happy to hear about your journey and hope you are still learning like the rest of us 😇🙏
@stephaniebottenfield6823
@stephaniebottenfield6823 3 жыл бұрын
I had the same thought! He has mentioned his horrible school experience and that Catholicism is the state religion of Quebec so, I think, the public education there might be Catholic? Which would be great in my opinion - if taught correctly! Anyway, I'm guessing he has a terrible emotional connection to his bad experience in school and catholicism, and needs Trent to set him straight!
@emilio6425
@emilio6425 3 жыл бұрын
Same here! The catholic church is so beautiful and I tried to prove it was wrong, trust me. Hahaha. I have listen to protestants speak against the catholic church my whole life(i grew up protestant), and still continue to, but in my opinion the informed catholic response is always far and away superior.
@Mila-kz8tt
@Mila-kz8tt 3 жыл бұрын
27:37 I always roll my eyes when people claim that church has so much gold and then point at my parish altar. It's literally wood painted with gold paint it's worthless.
@rosiegirl2485
@rosiegirl2485 3 жыл бұрын
I always answer it more like this... Speaking of the Vatican..We have collected gifts given to the church for 2,000 years...which is longer then any other church! These gifts were given "to the glory of God" not to a particular Pope. I then ask...what gifts do you think we should give to God? We give the very best of what we have (the first fruits)...though nothing we posses is good enough, compared to what God has given to us!
@jendoe9436
@jendoe9436 3 жыл бұрын
Reminds me a lot if the complaints that churches shouldn’t spend money on making the building beautiful, such as having stained glass, statues, and a good sound system. Yes there is over extravagance sometimes, but it’s also where JESUS HIMSELF stays in the Tabernacle. I can see common, ever day sights anytime but worshipping God while surrounded by pretty things is a different experience. People really need to research how much churches actually collect vs spend before getting on the “tHe ChUrcH iS LoAdEd!” non-argument.
@rosiegirl2485
@rosiegirl2485 3 жыл бұрын
@@jendoe9436 Agreed! The purpose of the stained glass (they tell the story..they are not just for beauty) was for the illiterate...which was most people, until recent history!
@jendoe9436
@jendoe9436 3 жыл бұрын
@@rosiegirl2485 I know exactly what you mean. Visited a few European churches and the amount of images displaying people, events, symbols, etc was mind blowing. I grew up in a church named Holy Rosary that’s been around as a parish for at least 100 years. Our windows on the sides were the Joyful, Sorrowful, and Glorious mysteries with the front showing off a beautiful image of Mary holding baby Jesus as they each give a rosary to a man and woman on either side. Even during my Rosary prayers those images are the first to pop into my head. It’s also nicely designed where the choir loft at the back as the last 3 of the Glorious mysteries, so I could look up and see Mary’s assumption anytime I was at the altar. Still moves me just thinking about it.
@superfish0012
@superfish0012 3 жыл бұрын
"It's worthless" Dude, have you *seen* the price of treated lumber lately!?
@TheTenCentStory
@TheTenCentStory Жыл бұрын
I really used to like Steven Crowder when he only did a weekly show. When he started doing the daily show and got all those "yes men" he really got full of himself. I can barley stomach him now because it's obvious how much he's changed.
@jd3jefferson556
@jd3jefferson556 3 жыл бұрын
Can you comment on Pope Francis saying that it is okay to take the Johnson and Johnson vaccine even though it uses fetal stem cells?
@noahj5250
@noahj5250 3 жыл бұрын
I did not know about this, thank you for commenting this.
@duckymomo7935
@duckymomo7935 2 жыл бұрын
This is a controversial topic for all The general scientific consensus says that there’s no actual fetal cells but it’s very complicated because people still have a conscience that there are. I think it’s bad to “endorse” or “allow” vaccines.
@ryanocomment373
@ryanocomment373 3 жыл бұрын
Crowder definitely needs some catholicism...
@michaelorsini9695
@michaelorsini9695 3 жыл бұрын
Really appreciate your approach to apologetics...calm, rational and dispassionate. This is how apologetics should be done...I do the same thing with my High School classes. CHEERS!!!
@jtjt3622
@jtjt3622 3 жыл бұрын
Fair call!
@mdg6117
@mdg6117 3 жыл бұрын
I have been a huge fan of Crowder since the beginning. I mostly share his views on his topics and I think he is an excellent debator. I have learned much from him and I am grateful. And I noticed a while ago that he is leaning towards mocking and vulgar commentary to those he disagrees with, even before he started commenting more often on the Pope. I have also noticed The Daily Wire leaning in that same direction and it is disappointing. I really always loved Conservatism because they have always been above typical Liberal rhetoric (mocking, swearing, vulgar/silly comedy). We have always been the respectful intellectuals with class, confidence and facts. Now we are starting to act like the ones we criticize...overly emotional. Kinda sad. I'm a Catholic, and I'm not a Pope Francis fan. But I respect him. And I can express ny opinion about it without waving two birds in the air lol. It's just cringy, childish. Not very funny.
@Joker22593
@Joker22593 3 жыл бұрын
I think you'll find that there are respectful and non-respectul people on both sides. Saying "my side is the classy side" is what both sides do while ignoring the bad parts of their own side. It's also the case that Crowder is far more respectful during "change my mind" and far less respectful in his comedy show. Different weapons for different arenas, I think.
@TickleMeElmo55
@TickleMeElmo55 3 жыл бұрын
@@Joker22593 In general I think the poster's criticism of The Left is fair. They do tend be to more emotional and arrogant hence them mocking, swearing and being vulgar because they know they can get away with it without much backlash.
@herakles6185
@herakles6185 3 жыл бұрын
LOOOL. You see these people be obnoxious, rude, mocking to people that you dont like you dont care at all. Then when they happen to do same thing to people you like suddenly they are "changing" and "becoming" those things. hahahaahaha
@mdg6117
@mdg6117 3 жыл бұрын
@@herakles6185 Read my comment again. What I don't enjoy is the "mocking, swearing, vulgar/silly comedy"...doesn't matter who is on the other end. People I like or people I don't like. It's how Crowder and other conservatives are conducting themselves that I am criticizing, not because I am offended that he doesn't like the Pope. I mean, I don't even like Pope Francis. For example, I agree with Crowder's opinions on the Fat pride movement but I don't enjoy him calling them fat cows. That's my point.
@Tabatista281178
@Tabatista281178 3 жыл бұрын
All I can say is the saints that died varying for the sick during the Black Plague burst would be ashamed of us.
@mikaelserviam7329
@mikaelserviam7329 3 жыл бұрын
Somebody tag crowder here. Then, we'll wait for that debate. 🤩
@unorthodoxyoyo
@unorthodoxyoyo 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this. I normally enjoy Steven Crowder and his perspective, but I thought his treatment of Pope Francis was unfair. Thanks for providing the context of the statement in question. People taking Pope Francis out of context is unfortunately really common and often causes confusion for the faithful. 😓
@CatholicWithaBiblePodcast
@CatholicWithaBiblePodcast 3 жыл бұрын
And now we wait for the backlash....
@ByzCathCuban
@ByzCathCuban 3 жыл бұрын
I wonder if Trent’s wife is scared to debate Trent 😂 “I think we can agree that I don’t need to do the laundry, Laura”
@joeycarlson6411
@joeycarlson6411 3 жыл бұрын
Trent, you're the best
@jayreid6592
@jayreid6592 3 жыл бұрын
He's guilty of doing the very thing he's criticizing Crowder about.
@hogandonahue9598
@hogandonahue9598 Жыл бұрын
I love Crowder and Trent. I just chalk Crowder's anti-catholic babel to protestant culture. I try not to let it bother me and I hope Steven comes home to the Catholic church some day.
@sartoriusrock
@sartoriusrock Жыл бұрын
I'm just glad that I barely needed Trent's translation... looks like this Spanish practice is helping quite a bit!
@SmithsnMoz
@SmithsnMoz 3 жыл бұрын
So much politics ...from the Vatican!
@julieelizabeth4856
@julieelizabeth4856 3 жыл бұрын
I just commented on that video yesterday that Steven Crowder should have a discussion with Trent Horn.
@aptivapeople2
@aptivapeople2 3 жыл бұрын
Lol. Doubly dose of crowder for the day. Thanks for this Trent. I know it sounds crazy but I love his change my minds and your debates. You win in my book btw ;) but he does at least recognize logical fallacies.
@anticoomer
@anticoomer 3 жыл бұрын
He's a nuge Neocon
@impasse0124
@impasse0124 3 жыл бұрын
So many Catholics in these comments are criticizing Pope Francis and making bold accusations about him. He’s a human being capable of mistakes and bad judgments but nonetheless he is our Pope and his office deserves our respect. So while we can voice disagreement if we know that he has said something that contradicts official Church teaching, we would do well to spend as much time praying for him. Some people seem to be at risk of becoming Protestant Catholics. Take caution.
@TheCASSMAN777
@TheCASSMAN777 3 жыл бұрын
Trent Horn destroyed Steven Crowder, change my mind!
@mse_zoomer6010
@mse_zoomer6010 3 жыл бұрын
Would love to see you have a discussion with Crowder
@zekdom
@zekdom 3 жыл бұрын
7:12 and 8:10 - Individualism 7:30 - Unlimited liberty 8:22 - The Church and socialism 8:55 - Pope Francis and business 18:46 - Leviticus 19 and “Who is my neighbor?” 19:54 and 22:38 - “If you temporarily suspend vaccine patents...” 24:15 and 24:35 and 25:28 - Absolute right to private property and fair use 26:10 - Balance 31:04 - What is freedom? 31:40 - Philippians 2:4-6
@tjgruen5611
@tjgruen5611 3 жыл бұрын
Oh me...what flavor is that Kool-aid
@ironymatt
@ironymatt 3 жыл бұрын
For someone who regularly issues challenges about changing his mind, Crowder has a looooong way to go if he expects his farcical mockery to change a faithful Catholic's mind.
@williamswenson3970
@williamswenson3970 3 жыл бұрын
Although it's impossible for any human being to "objectively" evaluate statements, it sure appears that today's extreme polarization is leading people to project their own meanings into things rapidly, emotionally and without reasoning.
@krjohnson29
@krjohnson29 3 жыл бұрын
I'm basically as free market as you can get but, as an engineer, I don't think patents should be a thing at all. There's so many of them and they are so hard to navigate and figure out what you're doing without accidentally violating one. Just because you were the first guy to figure out how to rub two sticks together and make fire shouldn't mean everyone else should have to negotiate a licence from you or freeze. I think copyrights are fine though. If you write a book or film a video and copyright it you're essentially saying "I'm only selling/giving this to you on the condition that you don't copy and distribute it yourself." Which makes sense. And of course exceptions for Fair Use, where you use that product or pieces of it to make an essentially new product, is fine in my view too. I once heard a patent lawyer ask a room of engineers "How do you sell something?" Of course, the engineers answered "Provide the best product at the best price." The lawyer said "No. You prevent anyone else from selling it." I think that is a perfect encapsulation of the reason patents need to go away. Another interesting fact, governments do not police patents. The company that holds the patent is responsible for identifying violations and taking the offenders to court. This essentially means that smaller companies have an inherent disadvantage when it comes to patents because they do not have armies of lawyers that can go out and search for violations. So patents are only really useful to large companies or patent trolls.
@jockobeans
@jockobeans 3 жыл бұрын
Gerald Morgan, one of Crowder's co-hosts, I believe is a Catholic and a Notre Dame alumni.
@LauraBeeDannon
@LauraBeeDannon 3 жыл бұрын
He's nominally Catholic. He didn't know anything about the red shoes...of course they didn't try to look it up either.
@irl-hdr4080
@irl-hdr4080 3 жыл бұрын
Pretty sure Morgan is an Evangelical Protestant. I’ve heard him say some pretty anti-Catholic stuff in regard to theology and Church history.
@OrthoLou
@OrthoLou 3 жыл бұрын
Nope, he's protestant. One of his newer members (I forget his name, funny guy though) is a lapsed Catholic who claims to be currently reverting back to his faith.
@NicklasNylander87
@NicklasNylander87 3 жыл бұрын
Amen
@gwit247
@gwit247 2 жыл бұрын
I'm more leaning conservative. I'm getting ready to take RCIA and this situation is a big hurdle for me. I keep trying to read between the lines and see if he is just being misrepresented. On some issues I definitely think he is. But I do take serious issues with the false gods he had at the vatican garden area. Still can't wrap my brain around that.
@fragwagon
@fragwagon Жыл бұрын
If you haven't already, check out the Reason and Theology channel.
@justinhillman6332
@justinhillman6332 3 жыл бұрын
I would love to see you on crowder
@giovannimusumeci2707
@giovannimusumeci2707 3 жыл бұрын
Hey Trent, good video thanks for sharing. I generally like your work, I disagree with a few things but keep it up. I also generally agree with Crowder on most (but not all) things A couple of thoughts: 1. a minor quibble, but you spend quite some time pointing out that you can't make a proper judgement based on a short video clip of a person, but then you go ahead and do just that. To be fair, the bits you shared are a decent general representation of Crowder's MO. I don't generally have a problem with Crowder's comedic style or approach but it does sometimes fall flat 2. This video regarding the vaccines is not the only video Crowder has done on Pope Francis .Crowder has done some content on Pope Francis in the past, especially on his more leftward leaning comments. 3. The talking past his co-host is part of Crowder's schtick, the rudeness to Gerald is part of the act. 4. I'm pretty sure Crowder has had Michael Voris on previously to discuss Catholic v Protestant theology so it might be possible for you guys to have a conversation. However, I'm not sure if the Crowder show itself is the best forum as some of the discussion will be lost in the "comedy entertainment schtick". Crowder does like the Socratic method to debate and discussion though so you might be able to get some good pointers across. After all, if you could do it with Dilluhanty then you can probably do it with Crowder who would be a much friendlier interlocuter (I think). Perhaps might be better in a "Change My Mind" forum. In any case keep up the good work. PS - Tim Gordon is right
@TickleMeElmo55
@TickleMeElmo55 3 жыл бұрын
I believe Trent was fair in his criticism of Crowder. In fact, he erred on the side of caution and just said Crowder's humor isn't really his thing.
@martinm2871
@martinm2871 3 жыл бұрын
Common Good > Collective Good.
@kimberlyriddell8574
@kimberlyriddell8574 3 жыл бұрын
Bishop of Rome should not be promoting communism
@cb352
@cb352 3 жыл бұрын
Where is communism in his speech though? The Pope declaring community comes before the individual has always been the Catholic position. Americans have been brainwashed to automatically believe the essence of conservatism has been liberty and individual freedoms when history in Europe and other places placed community, welfare, and charity before the aforementioned liberty and freedom.
@Kenny-rp9iq
@Kenny-rp9iq 3 жыл бұрын
You should respond to Matt dillahuntys debate review and his video tiltled skeptical of Catholicism.
@adam7402
@adam7402 3 жыл бұрын
Why are you even talking about this? Steven Crowder is just a comedian.
@JJ-zr6fu
@JJ-zr6fu 3 жыл бұрын
Shouldn’t he be talking about the Catholic politician pushing anti Catholic policies
@vincentswift7
@vincentswift7 3 жыл бұрын
Seeing communism where it doesn't exist individualism in this context is church teaching putting self last all the saints taught the same
@DiscoFur
@DiscoFur 3 жыл бұрын
Just commenting for the algorithm.
@mariacisneros6114
@mariacisneros6114 7 ай бұрын
🙏
@victoriadunn7947
@victoriadunn7947 3 жыл бұрын
What about the vacinne containing aborted tissues. No one seems to say anything about this. Does Jesus want us to take this vacinne.
@Joker22593
@Joker22593 3 жыл бұрын
The USCCB released a document on this. Go check it out!
@blondetapperware8289
@blondetapperware8289 3 жыл бұрын
Not all of the vaccines contain fetal cell lines. Some only used them to test the vaccines, and there are vaccine being produced that dont have any relation with fetal cell lines at all.
@timfirst3536
@timfirst3536 3 жыл бұрын
@@blondetapperware8289 www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/you-asked-we-answered-do-the-covid-19-vaccines-contain-aborted-fetal-cells
@lois2997
@lois2997 Жыл бұрын
I didn’t and I won’t
@tateharrigan8061
@tateharrigan8061 3 жыл бұрын
THANK YOU! I disliked it when he called our holy father a communist
@ernestpadilla9095
@ernestpadilla9095 2 жыл бұрын
Not only his apartment and his shoes, it goes as far as making a call to the Buenos Aires archbishop and ask him if they can send him the regular, simple vestments that he was using as bishop of Buenos Aires to say the Holy Mass. He just doesn't feel comfortable wearing the luxury vestments that John Paul II and Benedict XVI used to wear.
@suzannespanier4492
@suzannespanier4492 3 жыл бұрын
Give them the materials.
@JuanPNavarrete
@JuanPNavarrete 3 жыл бұрын
Hello, prettu new to your channel, but is it possible you clarify some things about the pope, such as supporting bishops appointed by the CCP in china, and saying that neither the devil or hell exist. Thanks.
@corporateshill7473
@corporateshill7473 3 жыл бұрын
Listen to Elizabeth Yore on Pat Coffin's podcast, they cover this well.
@LauraBeeDannon
@LauraBeeDannon 3 жыл бұрын
Did the pope say hell and heaven doesn't exist?
@John_Fisher
@John_Fisher 3 жыл бұрын
@@LauraBeeDannon The Pope has talked a number of times about the reality of Hell and the Devil (as well as God and Heaven, of course). Unless there's another event that I'm not aware of, the claim that the he said the devil and hell don't exist came from an athiest who writes for an Italian news organization who Francis none-the-less considers a friend though this person has a track record of misrepresenting what Francis says. This 'reporter' is known for not taking notes or recording conversations, then writing about the gist of the conversation as he recalls it.
@JuanPNavarrete
@JuanPNavarrete 3 жыл бұрын
@@LauraBeeDannon Yes, but I do not want to comment more on it because I do not have the full context.
@michaelhaywood8262
@michaelhaywood8262 3 жыл бұрын
He did not deny hell or the devil. This was a misquote by a secular journalist.
@propriusly
@propriusly 3 жыл бұрын
I enjoy his stuff, but his rumor in this case has unnecessarily alienated a whole bunch of genuine/ traditional Catholics. BTW I am not Catholic; I am Eastern Orthodox. As you might be aware, we are not in agreement on the Catholic church on its belief in the pope as the head of the holy, Apostolic, Catholic Church. Still, the disrespect Crowder demonstrated was very childish.
@bearlycountry2406
@bearlycountry2406 Жыл бұрын
✝️
@jameskolan9195
@jameskolan9195 3 жыл бұрын
Re unlimited property rights, it was only about 15 years ago that certain tax lawyers were claiming patent rights on tax savings ideas that emanated from US tax legislation and regulations. Can you imagine a world where only those individuals wealthy enough to pay one lawyer or law firm that won the race to the patent office so that they could minimize their taxes in a manner allowed by law? No? Neither could the Department of Treasury. But, if you think about it, "unlimited rights" would almost necessarily bring about such anomalous results. This year 2021 is also the 100th anniversary of the discovery and patenting of insulin. Banting, Best and MacLeod gave their rights away so that others could receive insulin more quickly and at less expense. An amazing act of altruism.
@eries77
@eries77 3 жыл бұрын
Would be cool to see Trent change Crowder's mind on this subject!
@mandazeba9958
@mandazeba9958 3 жыл бұрын
“,Government,Layer 😅😅😅😅🙏🏼☝🏻☝🏻
@lisadoetsch5618
@lisadoetsch5618 3 жыл бұрын
I honestly didn't know the pope could speak as a citizen.
@MCS1993
@MCS1993 3 жыл бұрын
I have lost respect for Crowder....Trent is a true Gentleman.
@backinblack1982
@backinblack1982 3 жыл бұрын
If you're considering catholicism for your life, don't read this comment section. It's self righteous, judgemental, and frankly mean spirited.
@rizkylumempouw6047
@rizkylumempouw6047 3 жыл бұрын
The problem with Crowder is that his identity is in politics and not Christ. That is why he could do something like that.
@adrianrg75
@adrianrg75 Жыл бұрын
Intellectual property rights and patents aren't property rights, they would not exist in a free market. A patent is literally a monopoly the government grants a particular company. So, if anything, that's libertarian, not communist
@phil2d2
@phil2d2 3 жыл бұрын
Not so sure that when I call someone who promotes Socialist ideas within the category of social and governmental politics that I’m wrong. The same can be said regarding calling someone who is registered as a republican a republican. It’s only meant to target them within the category of a social/political position or stance. Obama, in my estimation, was, and still is, a socialist but was very good at disguising it. For example, Lennon said that he promoted his new political ideology as “Democratic Socialism” because he felt that if he had been straight with the Russian people about his adherence and intention to install Communism as the formal and official government in Russia they would have been very afraid. So it’s about identifying the person’s political/social position. Not the human being itself.
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