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I too have been in the electrical industry (mostly large industrial work) my whole life either as an electrician or electrical engineer. You have me on years though. I just turned 60 and spent 40 years in the trade.

I hate old crusty electricians that think they know everything because it was written in a document designed to keep people out of the market. Unions are the worst.

Thank you. Im certainly not perfect but I try to make sure to spread factual knowledge rather than opinion. Although electricians all seem to be opinionated. lol. Myself included.

BM is correct it is not a mandate and this is an old debate. The person who called me out on it was an engineer who was being a dick.

I ask what you require. The answer is I'm not a teacher. What does the code say and I'm licensed

I have always have a problem with the power of building inspectors, they need to have their wings clipped. Just look at Lehtos law, you do all these things to make one inspector happy and the next one tells you none of it had to be done happens all the time. I had one inspector tell me on an out side door you can replace a window that keeps getting broken or you can put in a solid door , but you cannot put a wood panel in a door that did not come with one HE DROPPED IT WHEN I OFFERED TO TAKE HIM TO COURT AND MEANT IT !! ALL MALE BOVINE EXCREMENT !!!

That has always been my go to! Ask the inspector what he (or she)wants to see. They appreciate the nod to their "expertise"...

@@bobpawtucket1336 Well you probably better figure out sooner than later ... if you engage in pee'ing contests with them . For the most part they will be happy to oblige you and show you where the bear shiots in the woods . Because their job is to clip your wings if you are not flying straight . Other than a few odd cases , I can't say I have ever had much problems with inspectors. And most in my experience are actually helpful . Which is how I firstly learned most of the electrical requirements starting out in the jack of all trades handyman line of work I've been in for 40ish years . Which I have installed nearly 2 dozen meter main service entrance setups and lots of branch work. Permits taken out by the home owner or somebodies license they knew or general contractor I was working for at the time . Less is more when dealing with inspectors , and usually it is always better to be there if they fail something rather than having to discern it from their paperwork. Try and view them as helpful rather than adversarial would be the best advice I can tell you ;)

@@bobpawtucket1336 I'd say engaging in power struggles with an inspector is never a good idea , unless you enjoy those kind of contests and all the friction that come with them . Try the less is more approach maybe ;)

Funny stuff here 😂

It's my pleasure Scott.. This channel is designed to help out people just like yourself. Thanks for watching.

anyone that says they know all, doesn't know chit, best advice I ever got from grandpa and dad

Great short video!

@@BackyardMainetalking about the Wago lever nuts in a wet location, can they be used by themselves when wiring a receptacle in a bathroom? Or do you need to place them in a Wago Gel Box to meet code? Thank you for any advice you can give me.

@@watup110875 Try 30 years as a general contractor. Hands-on That means all the trades.

Thanks for sharing

I'm similar to you. Most inspections are me giving him info he needs for the certificate and then talking about retirement. Well, he's talking, I'm just dreaming. I too used nothing but 12 for outlets most my career, without question. That was until the great reset of a few years ago and prices skyrocketed. Now I'll give them the option. In today's world I think it's foolish but if they want the lowest price then it's 14 wire everywhere but the exceptions. And BTW, did he miss a coup locations where 12 is required? I didn't hear dining rooms or garage. He did have a 2023 book in the picture but surely they didn't eliminate those, did they?

@@snakeinthegrass7443 I did say Garages but not dining rooms. They are not required in dining rooms and thats not a change. Ive been in the electrical industry to 4 decades and I don't think the code ever required 20A circuits there. I do have the 2023 code and I took the 15 hour update as well.

@@BackyardMaine I apologize about the garage, geez I guess I missed it. Thanks for your credentials but it's unnecessary bc I know a pro when I see one. I've been around for almost 40 years myself. I wasn't questioning your knowledge, I simply did not hear you say those locations and was asking the other poster if you said them or if code changed. (not worded very well) Anyway, I never looked it up before bc I was always told by coworkers and inspectors alike that dining rooms require 12 wire. Since my book is in the truck and it's nasty outside, I tried my luck on the internet and it appears this is one of those grey area that gets interpreted differently. I was searching some forums and such and it seems to come down to 210.52 (1) which refers to the small appliance circuits serving all receptacles covered by 210.52 (A) Pantry, Dining Room, etc. By default, then, they would also be on a 20 amp circuit. I have never seen anyone or certainly haven't done it myself, and that's pulling ANYTHING off the countertop outlets except other countertop and island receptacles. That's crazy, imo. So in short from what I've found in a few minutes of searching, that section says the small appliance circuit "must serve" those other outlets in those locations. IMO that means a 20 amp circuit - and from my understanding it's bc of things like buffet tables with hot plates and other meal-related appliances. I do know that even inspectors disagree on codes from time to time. I've been frustrated several times over conflicting interpretations. So if your people pass 14 wire in the dining rooms, great. Maybe it's a geographical thing as well. I'm in upstate NY, near Albany, so maybe they're a little stricter, Idk. I just do what they tell me. So no hard feelings. I sensed you were a little upset with my post and I'm sorry if it came across as offending. Peace and blessings

That is how I, a DIYer, do it. Just makes sense. I began rewiring parts of our 85 year old house after my mother had the fuse box replaced with a breaker panel (by a professional, of course) and breakers started tripping. Left all the overhead light fixtures and most receptacles on one circuit. Was a rats nest to untangle. We're all conduit, so that did make some things easier.

Well said! Welcome to the channel.

If you think KZfaqrs are bad, think of all the electricians that have been misled by a poorly informed inspector who "interpreted" the code the wrong way....

I appreciate that! Thanks for watching.

Thank you.

I've seen the exact opposite of what you described electrical engineers that think they know it all when it comes to the NEC 40 years of hands on in the trade is more viable than four years of book learning

How about the "certified home inspectors" who never worked a single day in the trades? They cause more problems than anyone.

@@kd9856 One reason I retired early was a school project where none of the electricians read or spoke English. So none of the drawing notes were followed and the work met "NEC minimums" but not the specific State requirements for educational facilities shown on the design drawings.

Thank you very much!

I have run into similar issues in the past. lol

That would fail in europe too, thats why they use "type D curve" circuit breakers for motors.

@@bladeoflucatiel we use those as stand alone breakers in panel boxes we build. if it's a premade panel 120/240v 3 phase it uses standard breakers which don't have different curves .

Wow thank you and thanks for the sub!

Good idea to move. Regrettably, his insurance will likely not be voided, however. Many, many fires are caused by human error, stupidity, or cheapness, and are still likely valid claims. The insurer would have to know that the circuit was overloaded, and then find out that the landlord knew it well ahead of time. These are both hard to determine after a fire. Every year at Christmas there are dozens of house fires caused by "octopus" outlet multipliers for light strings on skimpy extension cords. Most people know or could know that this is hazardous, but the resulting fire is likely a covered claim.

Even if it is overloaded, that's what the overcurrent protection device is for - so it can't start a fire. I mean after all, you can at any time overload any outlet in your house, and that doesn't magically void your insurance.

That's not only dangerous but just plain stupid.

Codes change and what was allowed yesterday may not be tomorrow. If your circuit is overloaded then the breaker will trip, no need move and make a scene.

If it was grandfathered in that way and was allowable at one time, you may be out of luck. Lots of older houses from the 40's and 50's only had four or six circuits total. If it was a modern hack job done without a permit though, you may be able to withhold paying rent until it is fixed. You will have to do your own research to find out what your rights are here.

Awesome! Thank you!

Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching and commenting. 👍

You are so welcome! Thanks for watching.

Much appreciated! Making content is actually a lot of work but it's all worth it when I read comments like this. Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Thank you my friend.. I have asked for the code reference a few times but either they don't reply or reference the wrong article. Like article 81.. lol

Glad it was helpful!

Awesome, thank you!

My pleasure! Thank for watching

I appreciate that! Thanks for watching.

You kind of right which is why the statement about pigtails being required is false. Also all UL listed 120v receptacles sold in the US are listed for pass through. As a matter of fact 15A receptacles have a 20A pass through current rating.

Thanks my fellow electrician. Crawling through attics is a nightmare.

I appreciate that!

That's an interesting point and may be a contributing factor. Since I stared this channel I have learned that there are a lot of electricians that are confused about code requirements. I think many just go by what they were told by their superiors or maybe inspectors as well.

Thank you..

I have actually told some commenters who insist they are right.. "I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you".

@@BackyardMaine Very true! As with a drukard, you can always tell a dummy, ya just can't tell em much! :-) L8R G8R

Awesome.. thanks.

That is awesome! Thank you.

Thank you. 👍

That's great advice..

Yeah, but unfortunately spending $280 for a huge printed book, just to replace an outlet is not really a reasonable ask for most DIYers. It actually rather pisses me off that these are codes that are fundamental to doing work safely and in some cases could actually make the difference between a safe environment and a deadly hazard that could burn down a house and/or kill a family member, yet they're stuck behind several-hundred-dollar paywalls (and even then only provided in hard-to-use printed forms with no search ability, etc), pretty much guaranteeing that lots of the people who really _should_ be reading them will just not be able to, or won't want to. There really should be a better and cheaper way for non-professionals to have access to this really important information, IMHO.

The series of Code Check books available at lumber yards is a great resource and reasonably priced.

​@@foogod4237AFAIK, there is a PDF version, but it's also behind a paywall. Source: I found such a file on the High Seas.

Thank you... Happy to help!

I have seen that and worse. I actually rewired a home after a fire that has started where someone connected zip cord to a 20A circuit using wire nuts and tape but no box. The zip cord fed an outlet for an electric heater on the bedroom. Luckily nobody was hurt.

Thank you.. I spent my whole career in the electrical industry both as an electrican and an electrical engineer. I used to teach electrical safety and LOTO as part of my engineering responsibilities. I love teaching but it's not easy. I have a lot of respect for teacher. Now, I try to teach with youtube videos. lol

Thank you..

That’s awesome. Good work. I’m retired now but I spent my whole career in the electrical industry as a licensed electrician and eventually an electrical engineer.

I hear it happens but I have only had it happen to me once when I was working a job in Vermont. I appealed to the state inspector and he said I was good to go. The local inspector was not happy though. It would have cost me $1000s to fix so I pushed back.

The local authority having jurisdiction is the final say provided he is following local ordinance. If he tells you something that is beyond what local ordinance requires you will have to go to the local board and argue your case, where if you cite local ordinance required you will win. Local ordinance can be more stringent than national code. It cannot be less than national code.

@@nooneyouknowhere6148 not true. a state is not required to adopt the NEC in its entirety. local codes can provide exceptions to NEC. case in point, in my state, it is acceptable to install a non GFCI protected single receptacle behind a refrigerator, washing machine, or other fixed appliance, if it is located in such a way that the appliance prevents ready access, and it is labeled as being not GFCI protected.

@@kenbrown2808 that used to be standard in the NEC.

I worked as a Sr. Electrical Design Engineer for a very large electrical contractor. Sometimes over 1000 electricians. I got calls often from electricians on jobs stating that they just failed an inspection. After drilling down to make sure what was done, and what the inspector said, there are a few methods to resolve it. First, call the inspector and request a written statement of the violation. Call the inspector and read the appropriate section of the adopted code and give your understanding of that section and “Why”. Get out your code book when told of the violation, and look it up with the inspector. If all else fails and there is a Chief Inspector, call them and discuss the install, the inspectors statement, the code section, and read your point to them. There are numerous situations that could be told, but would take too long. If you do your homework, and you are absolutely correct and have proof, you will win every time. Just “Make Sure” you are correct first!

I posted a pic of what state have adopted what version of the NEC. But the 18” max cable length between the last support and the box is nothing new

@@BackyardMaine actually, it is very new code wise. It used to be required to be a 12" length of cable to the box. How we used to have to get these service loops is between staples with the one closest to the box being tight enough that it supports the cable but loose enough that you could slide it through the staple.

@@BackyardMaine The "within 12" I remember from older code cycles, but 18" max cable length was first included in the 2020 NEC. My 2020 book is highlighted as a change from the previous code. I think the length between the box and last support was previously undefined. I don't have an older version to look back at though. Good video.

@@michaelduy9055 Hmm, you may be right. My memory isn't what it used to be. I have a 2017 code out in the shop. I'll check it out and get back to you. Thanks.

@@ianbelletti6241 You're probably right. I have an older (2017) code book in the shop. I'll have to check. My memory isn't what it used to be. lol Thanks

Thank you so much. I love reading comments like this. It makes all the hard work worth doing. Dustin over at Electrician U does a great job with his videos as well. He's a very knowledgeable electrician. I have been an electrician and then an electrical engineer for my whole career. I'm retired now. I started making videos for a hobby and now it's become more of a business. lol. Welcome to the channel my friend.

Glad you enjoyed it.. Thanks for watching!

Wow, thanks! Glad it was helpful my friend.

No doubt! I'm retired now as well and I love it..

I have been hearing that. I am going to keep make code videos since they are performing very well on the channel. I don't know if you saw my latest video about a new code change for 2023.

@@BackyardMaine no I did not... I will look for it... I'm currently studying for my license I'm on 2020... your video came up ... good stuff! not sure what's made it to your list but I was shocked no pun intended about three-way switch requirements...

I'm going to make a video about multi-wire branch circuits because you're correct that many people don't really understand them or all the requirements for using them.

Required or not, I still find it a bad idea to run all your current through that dinky little tab on the side of the receptacle. I was advised against doing that by an instructor and have removed at least a couple receptacles that were hooked up like that and showed heat damage. One to the point of failure.

@@Wrencher_86 if you are seeing the tabs get that hot, something else is wrong. Likely, the circuit has been significantly overloaded. (space heaters, coffee pots, microwaves, and hairdryers are common culprits). I would ask if they have been resetting the breaker a lot. It could also be a manufacturing defect; many builders opt for the cheapest junk. I would also be skeptical of the overcurrent device. The tabs should handle 20 amps continuously, even on 15-amp devices. (mind that you can't legally pull the total rating for over 3 hours without derating.) Anyone who buys the cheapest receptacles at the big box store is rolling the dice.

Agreed..

Glad it helped. Thanks for watching.

My pleasure.. Thanks for watching.

My pleasure. Thanks for watching.

The house I'm in is like that, too. There's only one GFCI, at the head of the circuit, of which the first receptacle is in the garage.

Either there is no code enforcement in your area or the inspector needs a refresher course. lol

when the house was built, they should have had an open walls inspection of wiring and plumbing to see what is run where unless that area has no inspections while building.@@WhiteG60

My house built in 85 is similar, all bathrooms and outside outlets all on one 15A circuit with a GFCI in one bathroom.

@@WhiteG60 It would depend on the inspector. Some are really good and others not so much. There are two electrical inspections. One after rough in but before the walls are closed and a finish inspection when everything is complete. I would assume if the electrician spread out his circuits like that you wouldn't have very many drops at the panel. A garage circuit needs to be a 20A dedicated circuit and a bathroom needs a 20A circuit at the sink. This like this should be easy for them to detect at rough inspection.

Thank you my friend.. Much appreciated.

Great plan my friend.

amen, forgot coffee pot ROFL

@@watup110875 Yeah, the hot water pot pulls a few amps.

My poor kitchen has separate circuits for the fridge, garbage disposal, dishwasher, and the lights, but only one circuit for the counter-top outlets. We can't run the toaster-oven and microwave at the same time, unfortunately. Or the induction kettle plus one either, for that matter 😞

@@junkerzn7312 I hope your bedrooms and living room don't share those circuits. When I would trip the kitchen breaker, my TV and the computer in the spare room would have no power.

@@patmcbride9853 Thankfully all the rooms mostly have their own circuits, but there are definitely a few really odd circuits in the house One of the oddest circuits is a single outlet in one of the bedrooms that is on the bathroom's GFCI circuit (bathroom on the other side of the wall from the outlet). The other outlets in the bedroom are on their own circuit. I kept tripping the bathroom GFCI with a particular surgy piece of equipment in the room. Finally got fed-up enough to go into the bathroom and rewire the GFCI plug. So now the room plug is on the same circuit, but not on the GFCI. The bathroom plugs are still on the GFCI of course. -Matt

I see it more in the comments on my videos but I’m sure there are creators that get it wrong as well. It’s not an easy book to navigate if you don’t have much experience.

Any time! Go USAF 🇺🇸🇺🇸

You are correct. The code is not retroactive so existing installations don't have to be brought up to existing code.

Sounds like it was a considerable distance from the panel. Also the connection method used plays a role as well. I run a window unit on a 15A breaker with 14 gauge wire about 50 feet from the panel with no issues at all.

My first code book was 1984. I think I still have it somewhere.

@@BackyardMaine1984 here too.

Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it..

That's a great point.. Thanks for sharing.

110 and 120 are nominal voltage numbers, they're the same thing electrically.

@@pld8993 The 110 is some misnomer that has been transmitted within communities.