@OriginalGreenYoshi 3 жыл бұрын
Kyousuke is definitely on a whole different league of his own compared to typical best friend characters. Dude reached #1 on the Key character poll in 2020, which is a big achievement.
@tamro9701 3 жыл бұрын
yeah info-dumping is pretty terrible, most of the time I just skip it. Also its super refreshing when the best friend character is not that comic relief archetype. So much missed potential as you said.
@TheAugustHail 3 жыл бұрын
There's always that feeling that if I skip a info-dumping session, i'll just end up connecting the dots via context clues later on..
@TheOminousFlareShow 3 жыл бұрын
One of the most popular VNs of all time, Muv-Luve Alternative, has so much infodumping. Usually, popular sci-fi or fantasy VNs are guilty of this in service of "world-building." It's the inherent problem of the visual novel medium, because it's still inherently a NOVEL, with text. Less focused on the visual part (especially when most sprites in VNs are cheap recycled sprites anyway) and more focused on exposition dump. That's the difference between an anime capable of showing the story as opposed to a novel that tells you the story.
@tamro9701 3 жыл бұрын
@@TheOminousFlareShow all true, however one can still show off pieces of the world that need to be explained through conversations, events, and actions, rather than just DUMPing it all at once in a wall of text.
@TheOminousFlareShow 3 жыл бұрын
@@tamro9701 You can, but usually, they won't, because it's expensive. Conversations, sure, but technically, that would still be exposition anyway. Actions and events? To do that kind of world-building through actions and events would require complex CG art that takes time and effort that's contradictory to the creation of VNs. Look at all the western VNs on Steam. Do you see a common thread? They're cheap. Recycled sprites, occasionally changing backgrounds, but heavily relied on narration and dialogue to tell the story. Fate/Stay Night and Muv-Luv Alternative are not the norm of VN; they're the Oscar-winning exceptions made by people with passion. Your run-of-the-mill VNs are cheaply produced without the fancy CG art you'd see in high quality VNs.
@TheOminousFlareShow 3 жыл бұрын
It's easy to see why visual novels often have self-insert protagonists. They're rooted in eroge even if they've evolved in complexity nowadays, and eroge is meant for the escapist hikikomori crowd who would much rather interact with some fictional or digital girl than real life counterparts. These games were designed to make the player feel like he has a shot at getting romance with these fictional girls. It's escapist fantasy. That being said, this trope has been deconstructed to show the consequence of a protagonist sleeping around with multiple girls: AKA School Days. It helps that it's possible to achieve a happy ending and still be a (relatively) decent guy in School Days, but the main point of that visual novel is to show the inherent flaw of eroges and even visual novels in general, especially visual novels with multiple romance interests. In Kanon, for example, it's implied that certain love interests you don't choose would suffer a tragic fate because you weren't there to help them. The appeal of School Days, however, is that it brings this tragedy to the forefront and acknowledge them rather than pretend everything's fine and dandy. Likewise, rape as drama is also due to the shady nature of eroges. There are tons of rape hentai out there, and rape porn is definitely something common among both Japanese pornography and even eroge. You could literally find hundreds of titles out there that exploit rape content sexually, even when it's meant to be played for drama (see "Swan Song"). This element of visual novels has been diverged from in recent times, but it's still a part of its origin.
@DrayLoco 2 жыл бұрын
Very concise man I love School Days
@Freestyle80 Жыл бұрын
it aint that deep
@YusifAgayev-ck1br 7 ай бұрын
You can reason a cause for anything, it doesn’t make it any less shitty/annoying.
@historymax5479 6 ай бұрын
DDLC also does a nice desconstruction and criticism of dating sims and these types of games as well. Too bad the majority of the fandom don't seem to agree...
@animengerbruh 3 жыл бұрын
Oh I absolutely HATE the "Blank slate main character". Following the protag in particular is one of the core joys of reading a VN for me and it's very hard if there just ain't anything there! I actually really enjoy VNs where the protags are very pronounced and very clearly their own character. (Ex: the 9-nine series)
@ryanjeong6128 3 жыл бұрын
when I first read fruit of grisaia I was like oh my god, the main character has a personality Yuuji is goddamn hilarious with his banter
@iqbalsparu0507 2 жыл бұрын
I love his sarcastic jokes
@tranducquang5912 4 ай бұрын
If he was voiced too, He would have been my favorite protag.
@Dinklr 14 күн бұрын
Honestly I went into grisaia pretty blind and seeing the start of the game where yuuji jokes about sleeping with the police officers mother was such a welcome shock. And he gets even more hilarious as the game progresses
@Blue_Nova707 3 жыл бұрын
And don't forget the high school setting trope. The story can take place anywhere at any point in time and they'll somehow make the high school as the main focus of the story. This really is a big turn-off for me and I hate that is so ubiquitous in japanese media.
@HardcoreMasterBaiter 2 жыл бұрын
I took a Japanese culture class at my university and it was discussed that the high school setting is something that happens often in even anime and manga as well because work culture is basically hell in Japan so Japanese people naturally just don't want to be immersed in adulthood or work culture
@Guy-cb1oh 2 жыл бұрын
Complaining about highschool setting in anime/manga/visual novels is like complaining about kissing in a romance story. It's kinda fundamental to the art.
@trignite 2 жыл бұрын
@@Guy-cb1oh But it shouldn't be.
@antoniokaram3420 2 жыл бұрын
@@trignite i love the highschool setting tho.
@ouo5634 Жыл бұрын
@@antoniokaram3420 same here, highschool was pretty bland and awful for me.
@ArtofWEZ 3 жыл бұрын
we are def the opposite for world building, once you hear 5 tragic character stories you have heard them all but there is seemingly infinite kinds of interesting cities one can experience
@aliridho3513 3 жыл бұрын
What worse is that probably there's no route for those single adult in visual novel
@TheAugustHail 3 жыл бұрын
There's like one I can think of out of all of the stuff I've read so far...
@aliridho3513 3 жыл бұрын
@@TheAugustHail title?
@TheAugustHail 3 жыл бұрын
It's the Teacher side route in Noble Works.
@SuperMiIk 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah rape literally adds nothing to most stories especially if its graphically shown. It's just disgusting
@toasterproductions3733 3 жыл бұрын
Found this on your Reddit post. Don't agree with all of them, but you make some really good points. Great video overall you defo deserve more exposure
@TheAugustHail 3 жыл бұрын
And that's perfectly fine to have differing opinons. Thanks for the support~ Much appreciated!
@TeoReviewBG 3 жыл бұрын
Completely agree with all of your points. I can only begin to imagine what a VN that disregards all of these tropes would look like. Keep up the great content!
@TheAugustHail 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the support~!
@lukaanderson8281 3 жыл бұрын
That is why the more recent Persona best friends are actually good characters.
@punbasedname9032 5 ай бұрын
I disagree with the idea that only the more recent ones are. While Persona 1 doesn't have one, eikichi, junpie, yosuke and ryuji all felt like good characters to me. So unless by more recent you mean from the second game onwards, I don't feel there's been a change in the writing quality of the best friend characters
@darthzayexeet3653 Жыл бұрын
Love it when the MC always has a clever comeback and can tease the girls 😂
@Mo7amedIhab 3 жыл бұрын
Hehe Good vid! I agree with them all. Kind of annoyed though Sunohara Youhei clips were used in #1 I don't remember Clannad now all that much but I remember: 1- He was funny. 2- He was plot-relevant. I vaguely remember the story of how he and Tomoya met (It was in the VN, not sure if it was in the anime too) And I also remember his sister's plot. There could be more to his importance in Clannad beyond the pervy loud comic relief best friend XD
@TheAugustHail 3 жыл бұрын
Honestly, while I don't like him all that much. He gets beat up wayyyy too much, the poor guy.
@xgremlynnx 3 жыл бұрын
That is also my number 1 most hated VN trope. Sunohara works for me for some reason, but that's probably just because of how Tomoya interacts with him and I love Tomoya.
@rodrigo3732 3 жыл бұрын
I will admit,i love the stupid best friend. Lol. Kenji from Katawa Shoujo,Yoshino from Rewrite and even Sunohara,s Clannad have their moment. Maybe i am just a silly person,but i totally get why some people hate the slapstick humor.
@TheAugustHail 3 жыл бұрын
And that's understandable, the stupid best friend has always remained a popular trope. There are couple I do like as well lol
@ninjaguy2511 3 жыл бұрын
To be fair, kenji had a personality, a bit of a trope sure but there was way more to him.
@deadhawk1212 3 жыл бұрын
Hey man commenting to say I love to see discussion-based VN content, it’s a ton of fun hearing people’s perspective on our little niche medium. Keep it up ❤️
@ShadowReaper425 3 жыл бұрын
But if the protagonists had personality they would still be criticized for their personalities I mean a lot of people hated Shirou from Fate Stay night for being altruistic
@HerMi.T 3 жыл бұрын
I don't know how you even think that Emiya Shirou is altruistic. Yeah he look like altruistic from outside but he is broken from inside. When you read vn. You understand that his altruistic behavior is only thing which give him some worth and some meaning for himself. So no he is not altruistic. And those who read visual novel never call him bad character. He is actually very well done character with his development by coming terms with reality in different ways in different routes.
@ShadowReaper425 3 жыл бұрын
@@HerMi.T I know the reasons for Shirou being altruistic and he is a broken individual and one of my favorite characters in the medium Iam only presenting reasons as to why some people dislike him yes he is a mentally broken person with survivors guilt which drives him to do overly selfless acts with no regard for his life and he is complex however most people like Shirou because of UBW and HF having read the fate route I was constantly irritated by his sexism in regards to his treatment of Saber and poor excuses ion preventing his overpowered servant from fighting with no regard for her opinion (initially though it gets better later) and one line where he claimed that Mitsuzuri's molestation could teach her feminity though you could blame that on poor translation but it still leaves a bad taste in people's mouths the fate route is the first route despite being the weaker one.
@HerMi.T 3 жыл бұрын
@@ShadowReaper425 yeah you are completely right that his stereotype of women in fate is really the only frustrating thing for me. but when you understand his character. you understand how he become like this. You know that he is completely copying his ideal to really find his true purpose. That's why he even copied kiritsugu's words that boy should save save girls. He actually uses this things to find excuse for saving them. He actually didn't believe this thoughts. Just like his own ideal and his 'fake' self, He question his own thought. He changes this thought in second half of fate. He is not sexist at all but yeah his stereotype is frustrating.
@thirdplanet4471 3 жыл бұрын
It took a while for me to understand Shirou especially since l first watched the show, then read the visual novel and then went on to research and browse forums discussing the franchise and his character. Ultimately, l still don't like him but l can tolerate him in some aspects like his iron will and how he goes after what he wants with the grace of an unstoppable object. To some extent l can relate in that regard especially when you go after something you really want and won't let anything stop you even going through the back door to get it when someone is guarding the front door metaphorically speaking. But its obviously easier to go after something you want rather than being forced to do something you don't want. Moving on, the thing l don't like about him may stem from his methods as opposed to his beliefs. I do often wonder why he never sought heroism via becoming a police officer, fire fighter or doctor but whatever. I know Shirou is broken by the fire, survivors guilt and uses being a hero/saving everyone as his reason for living and becoming happy. Perhaps he's also depressed because of kiritsugu's death and he's inability to properly mourn and learn go. However, l don't like how he has a certain personal attachment in regards to saving people and uses helping others for his happiness as it makes others become objects in a way and he may or may not develop a sort of 'only l can be the hero and everyone must wait to be saved' mentality. In one part of fate route he said something along the lines, "I'm the hero here" (could be a translation error or l misunderstood the context) but other people are also capable of helping too and if helping didn't bring him happiness, purpose or if the situation did not call for his acts of heroism would he even be helping in the first place? In the first berserker fight when he took the hit for Saber, granted all the choices led to death regardless, if Ilya was like any other master and not targeting Shirou specifically then Rin and Saber would have been killed right after his stunt and he never considered how those who love him would be left to mourn for him like Taiga or Issei. Sakura even worried about his injuries in HF. Plus, once he's dead he can't save anyone anymore. It also may be possible Rin's healing and Avalon increased his recklessness as he believed his body will just heal regardless. As you guys mentioned fate route didn't do him favours especially with how he didn't take Saber's feelings into account (changed towards the end but imo it took a while). If anyone tells Shirou to give up on his dreams he would ignore them but he thinks he can tell Saber to give up on her dreams and gets angry when she refuses, like seriously? It's also ironic how archer emiya went back in time to undo becoming a counter guardian kinda similar to how Saber wanted to save her country in the past. Also, for someone who wants to be a hero of justice Shirou doesn't really do anything heroic till the holy grail wars and l'm surprised he never learned any other skills like martial arts or first aid. It's funny how he doesn't want Saber to fight but has to learn how to fight from Saber and he quits the archery club for some reason. He uses that skill so little l sometimes even forget his counter guardian self is an archer eventhough that's his code name. Anyway, as for saving everyone he seems to be picky as he never tried to help or reason with his enemies. Whether it be Shinji, Kirei, berserker or Gilgamesh he showed no pity and never seemed to try and help Shinji become a better person even though they were once friends. In UBW there's a choice to abandon Soichirou to his death. He cares for his allies but has no mercy on his enemies and never tries to convert them. Heck, in Heavens feel day 9 there's a choice to abandon Sakura to her death and that Shirou presumably goes full Kiritsugu. He also seemed slow as he didn't help Sakura till after her feeding frenzy. It also seems that Shirou can't handle the failure of not being able to save someone he cares for. Archer clearly was troubled with being a cg and look how far he was willing to go to try and stop it. Also, apparently Archer is from an alternate fate route but failed to save Saber so that may have also screwed with him. May also explain why he was so persistent to save saber because if he doesn't save anyone then he's useless. Ilya's death in ubw and HF also show this. Lastly, one thing that annoyed me every route was his constant "l was not wrong" or whatever variation he had even Archer reverted back to this mindset at ubw's end. It comes off as stubborn and often l just wish he could admit his flaws from time to time. Any who l'm probably wrong about a lot things about him and realta nua or the original novel may have answered or dealt with these things (only read the original vn) but these are the things that bothered me. But l do think Nasu did a good job on him especially since you have to push yourself to understand him. I can see why people hate him but l can why people like him.
@Catr0cheering 3 жыл бұрын
Well, yes, we want the mc to have a personality but we want it to be a good one. (Not talking about Shirou because I've never seen/read Fate stay night)
@ShuyaTheDark 2 жыл бұрын
11:03 Every story ever* Like Kel from Omori, or Ryuji from Persona 5
@rodrigo3732 3 жыл бұрын
0:59 i recognize at least 3 of those and i am not proud of it.
@TheAugustHail 3 жыл бұрын
Yeahhhh *nervous laughter*
@wilson.chandra 3 жыл бұрын
all of them looked like they are from "something something" (The Animation)
@DottaNatural 3 жыл бұрын
This list is not big enough. Like, the trope I despise very much is when a male character or protagonist walks in on a girl changing and gets beat up for it. Or when a guy and girl collide with each other, they almost always end up in a lewd position. Tropes like that really grind my gears! I got sick and tired from anime because of those things.
@reanbright2435 3 жыл бұрын
Not sure if you're still reading comments here but I'll comment my thoughts anyway Adding to your 4th point, I'm so tired of teacher or adult figures having some type of interest or flirting with their student. Like shit if they're not a route I don't want to see it, it's gross to me. But yes I wish we had more mature adults and teachers that either the mc or the heroine could go for advice when they need it. As for 5, I think a nice guy protagonist works if they have enough character to show why girls would fall for them. For example, Akito from A Sky Full of Stars is kind of a generic mc but who's very helpful, proactive, and passionate about astronomy. Why the 4 heroines fall for him make sense. But then there's the mc of Under One Wing and while I enjoy some of the routes, when I got to the route dialogue choice, I was like how the hell do all these girls like this guy, he has shown almost no personality throughout the common route that was worth fawning over him for. As for your 2nd point, I mostly agree with it. But I wanted to add something similar which is more in line with games with h-scenes. And that's the mc turning into a sort of rapist with their stupid comments when they kinda coerce the heroine into sex. "I can't hold myself back. I need to do it now. See, it's your fault I'm so horny right now. If I start I won't be able to stop myself." They have so many stupid thoughts about having no self-control, that it's annoying to read in these VNs because it feels like they're forcing themselves on the heroines. Sometimes there's also manipulation for some h-scenes when the girl is not for it at first but eventually they're like "OK fine" after mc "persuades" them. These scenes are done too often in eroges and they always annoy me I mostly agree with 3, sometimes expansive lore on something that I have no care for bores me to tears. IMHHW has so much plane talk that it bored me several times and I just wanted to skip them and get to scenes outside of the hangar or get far away from the gliders themselves lol. I did enjoy the astronomy talk in ASFoS and was my first real exposure to the world of astronomy. But I know others probably would get bored of that too. And I have no problem with funny best friends as long as they're not assholes. The best friend in Fureraba is a full on asshole through and through which is why I hated him. There’s others who are just funny that I enjoy even if that's their only role.
@darthzayexeet3653 Жыл бұрын
I really like when the MC has a strong, confident personality. I love it when he’s smug, can make and take jokes and doesn’t fold under pressure. Like most when Harem MC’s accidentally walk in on a girl changing for example, they usually get immediately flustered and apologize profusely, while the girl is calling him a pervert and throwing shit at him. But once in awhile you get a GigaChad Protag that either doesn’t care or even doubles down, like by stripping down himself and just walking past for example.
@berylliumbanana 3 жыл бұрын
I would argue that If My Heart Had Wings has a protagonist with somewhat of a personality. It’s believable that the girls are attracted to him-he’s fit and helps out a lot.
@wbmc1 3 жыл бұрын
I thought another good instance of point 3 was Aokana. The VN does a good job slowly presenting the Flying Circus sport without a massive exposition dump in a single scene. Great video!
@TheAugustHail 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks~! I should get to reading Aokana someday lol
@wbmc1 3 жыл бұрын
@@TheAugustHail I've read a lot of VNs and it's definitely up there in terms of quality. Think sport anime + romance/comedy of a VN combined... works pretty well!
@DJNightchild 3 жыл бұрын
5. Personally, I do not hate this trope. I do hate the beta-male type though. 4. Agreed. 3. Partly agree/disagree. Imho, info on in-depth systems should be used as an option, not forced through your through. The Elder Scrolls for example, are great in doing that. You can buy/browse through in-game books, to read more about the world. But it is entirely possible to ignore that 2. Agreed! 1. Hit and miss for me. I loved Sunohara from Clannad (anime version), though I hated Genki.
@kingofjokers1 3 жыл бұрын
I always hated how Type-moon games always had sexual assault in them. Its become a trend with them to the point its the main reason I don't play their games.
@mattf.868 3 жыл бұрын
Literally only Tsukihime has those scenes, LMAO
@akiradkcn 2 жыл бұрын
@@mattf.868some ppl really love to talk shit out of their ass about something they dont even are familiar with
@Christopherjazzcat 3 ай бұрын
Literally had to restart the video because I heard that music and I was immediately a million miles away thinking about Aoi Mukou standing on that roof with her hand in the air going "tururururururururururururururu... turu... ru..." as her voice is fading and her body begins to sway. My favourite opening to a visual novel, and my introduction to my favourite ever character. ...oops, I got carried away. I couldn't help but gush about Totono.
@reinaldodharmawan3548 2 жыл бұрын
I insert my self as Shirogane Takeru
@shadowofadoubt 3 жыл бұрын
I agree with #4 I like when the older supporting character is an actual “mentor” like figure too as they can be sort of an anchor for the MC or Girls in pivotal moments of growth as far as giving that little push to whomever needs it to actualize their potential. I think Hoshiori had a good one with the MC’s architectural role model. Also the info dump method of world building is something I dislike a lot too. It’s overwhelming, feels lazy, and can be a waste of time that could be spent further developing characters or relationships. Great video by the way, no one really discusses about these overarching narrative qualities in VNs. Keep it up!
@TheAugustHail 3 жыл бұрын
When the "mentor" character is done well, it's done really well and they have such a profound effect..
@riku_dola8079 3 жыл бұрын
2:22 if anyone is interested, the vn is Baldr Sky.
@pokemongirl5674 2 жыл бұрын
I'm somewhat working on a story that may or may not be a visual novel so time for me to comment. 1st one listed: yeah, blank slate mcs are very much hit or miss for me. However, I could never self insert myself in a visual novel, so when in doubt for vns where I can have a different name listed, that is where I self insert a character from my story instead into it : D (The mc in my story has amnesia so I'm not exactly sure that would count as a blank slate or not) 2nd one: I feel bad for various adult characters in visual novels, I like seeing the good role models or at least the ones that are memorable. Somehow for the bad ones, its harder for me to remember in the aftermath 3rd one: I can highly understand where you're coming from. Despite me loving world building in my fiction, there are various times where I feel like skipping over it when I play a visual novel, but of course it depends on the genre for it. (My story has world building but that's more or less because I wanted to do something fun with the tarot theme and I have to explain it a bit as it is considered to be niche, especially with 56 cards in the deck) 4th one: I don't have anything to say here as I agree 100% with what you said. I am a fujoshi as well as uh...reading r*pe is usually something that makes me feel squimish 5th one: they are usually hit or miss but I will admit that when its a miss, it becomes so obnoxious that I want to move on with their dialogue before they finish speaking. Hopefully my comment wasn't too much of the wall kind. :)
@Iceblade269 3 жыл бұрын
Oh my god, #1 kills me. I swear with all of the bullshit I’ve dealt with from “friends”, I feel nothing but sympathy for this char. And that’s not what this trope is known for. Funny best friends are fine, but give them more of a purpise than to be a punching bag
@HonestFarmerLigue1Fan 3 жыл бұрын
Which is why Higurashi is one of the best VN series there is. It completely changed people's perception of VN. Regardless of whether you like Higurashi Gou or not, Higurashi's influence on VN media cannot be denied. Basically, Steins;Gate and Danganronpa would never exist without Higurashi.
@AstralPhnx 2 жыл бұрын
Biggggggg disagree here tbh. A bigger influence on a lot of those VN's like DG and Steins;Gate would be the infinity series, stuff like Ever17 etc which really pushes that scifi mystery side of the genre big time. Higurashi is... Ehhhhhhhh... The pacing is a trashfire, it absolutely does info dump at points and it's just... Not as influential in my eyes as something like the Infinity series was
@boeuf-in9oe 3 жыл бұрын
Zero from megaman x series is the good example of a mentor/best friend character.
@serhiid3758 3 жыл бұрын
A supersoldier, who is a stupid, pointless comic-relief character, who has no story value - that would be strange...
@bornanime3255 2 жыл бұрын
Dude this is it. I hate all of the tropes you talked about and honestly it is a shame cuz this can kill a visual novel for me since I like em relatively lengthy. So if I see that it is just filled with tropes and cliches with a minute amount of substance I cash out, which sucks cuz I genuinely wanna play more vns but can't seem to find one that isn't just the same thing with a fresh coat of paint. Yume miru kitsuru was exactly what I wanted because of this, it's filled with such interesting deep dives into unusual circumstances which vns don't talk about often. It even has one of my favourite best friend characters in any piece of media. Other tropes I hate though is the generic anime art style and the generic main heroine in most romances. Art style really shapes alot of stories for me and has cut me alot of time when deciding if a vn is worth it or not based of screen grabs and gameplay and romance vns have an annoying tendancy to have the main heroine be such a boring archetype or just be straight up less interesting than the other cast and that sucks cuz I feel that a main heroine should grab the MOST attention from the player rather than simply forcing the narrative to push you towards one particular girl that you can already predict her entire backstory and personality based on the opening cg art alone. I think more romance vns should take more from katawa shoujo in that regard, in that it shouldn't push you to one particular girl and simply try to make all the love interests interesting in their own right and let the player choose what suites them more from the get go then the rest of the game after the intro and you're on the set path to your chosen heroine you get content focusing on that particular girl and the MC it saves so much time i spend skimming through the same dialogue that you've seen and likely are skipping and just gets you the meat of what you want
@no1reallycaresabout2 2 жыл бұрын
2:29 Good grief please no. I do not want to see yet another genre full of asshole / degenerate protagonists. I get protagonists have to have flaws to be relatable and create tension and growth, but I need to at least respect the character enough so I am actually rooting for them to succeed.
@eddywong6750 3 жыл бұрын
Disclaimer: Discussion of sensitive topics ahead(the "r" word) 2: I do agree to a certain point that when r*pe is fetisized and glorified in visual novels, It may be disturbing, distasteful and downright unnecessary. This would be especially true in visual novels in which the topic of r*pe is not the main focus. However, I believe that r*pe should not be treated that differently from violence. Just like how returnees from the Vietnamese War experience shellshock, r*pe victims are often traumatised for the rest of their lives. Both induce a sense of extreme disgust, discomfort and may demonstrate the moral reprehensibility of a or a set of characters. That said, there are a few differences, one of key differences being that usually r*pe stems from uncontrolled and deranged feelings of affection. I think point no 2. is rooted more in the lazy villain archetype that specifically r*pe; the common trope of villains being built up a scapegoat by simply committing immoral acts rather than properly developing them. I may be misunderstanding something here, and I am very sorry if I am, but this is my stand. 5: I do not fully disagree with this idea. However, I do understand if there is an appeal for these types of visual novels. The idea of self inserting yourself into a visual novel and making your own choices to personalise your game experience(which you partially covered in the video). Some visual novels like Totono and DDLC, uses the notion of a self insert protagonists, to create very unique and meta gameplay experiences. Furthermore, I can see more potential for this trope that visual novels have not dived into yet. So I will not fully dismiss this trope. 3: Usually when I am at these points, I just press ctrl. I am an advocate for the "show don't tell" ideology. However, when exposition is captivating, interesting, adds or changes your perspective on the world and builds up characters from the presentation or the way its told, exposition can be anything but boring. Ultimately, this comes down to taste, just how many find long and drawn out slice of life segments boring, some may find exposition scenes to be not the most palatable. I do not disagree with points 1 and 4.
@sgt.verdian1945 3 жыл бұрын
I agree with u on the number 5 ,3,2 number 5 is like your average nerd nice lookin' guy Protagonist but somehow he is a chick magnet for no absolutely reason and i dont like it,sure it work on 1 or 2 but it became cliche that is annoying number 3 also kinda boring depending how u taste but personally i dont care much about it,sure its important for story development but when its too much it became soo boring that i just wanna skip it number 2 just plain and simple FCKIN' HATE IT so MUCH personally but i kinda disagree on number 4 and 1 because number 4 it keeps the story funny and not soo boring , i could say its unique (cuz i just play fureraba) and number 1 is the same reason on number 4 i mentioned early yeah its supporting character so it doesnt need to be develop that much
@TheAugustHail 3 жыл бұрын
Yeah that's understandable for 1 and 4. It's a divisive topic for sure. And there are particular comic relief character that do well, it's all a matter of personal perference in the end.
@darthzayexeet3653 Жыл бұрын
I strongly dislike completely meaningless choices that are just there to pad the choice roster and give you the illusion of choice when there is none. Choices should have at least a small impact on the story or characters. It’s always really cool when a heroine has different dialogue based on the choices you made or can even call you out on them
@proximacentauri1172 3 жыл бұрын
There’s some great video editing here, surprising for a relatively small channel.
@TheAugustHail 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the compliment~!
@alice-hc6vy Жыл бұрын
totally agree with #2, it just often done in such an un-nuanced and tactless way.
@beatemup2012 3 жыл бұрын
I’m curious to hear what you think of rance
@robroy373 2 жыл бұрын
I think the absolute worst trope for me, is the girls teasing/messing with the MC to get on his nerves. It's one thing if he just shakes it off and never complains. But a lot of Visual Novels have the MC clearly uncomfortable by it and usually asks/tells the girls to stop, and yet they keep doing it in the game inspite of the MC wanting them to stop and feels uncomfortable. That isn't funny, and just makes the girls unlikable, ill intent or not. Aokana (used to like it more, but this and many other problems with that VN has brought it down quite a bit for me) and that garbage VN Wagamama High Spec is just one of many VN's that relys on this as a form of comedy on the MC, and as said it usually does not work. It really kills my interest in so many VN's when they use the sh*t on MC comedy. Another one is the girl calls the MC dense to a girl liking him (usually not even being constructive or actually explaining anything, just being rude to him and you don't get it bla bla bla)...and then goes behind his back and is all caring and considerate of the girl (who likes him) and actually offers advice without being condescending or belittling her like she did the MC, which royally ticks me off, and the girl is never called out on it despite being a hypocrite (and a jerk).
@latheefshaik5824 6 ай бұрын
same makes me wanna erase the girl out of existence and I will drop the visual novel And kyou from clannad is like this
@andrewshearsby8125 8 ай бұрын
Amendment for No5 the jerk protagonist mostly seen in nsfw VN is on par with the blank slate MC as well.
@someguywithabirdface2583 2 жыл бұрын
6 . Scapegoat character A character who out place evil or ass just if the heroine is too fuck up for the reader .
@desmondmalone438 2 жыл бұрын
1:30 me too and I do insert myself too but I prefer living with the world through the MC personality then me being inserted because it’s impossible to that do that with blank slates
@Eldiran1 2 жыл бұрын
This video help me to realise what i don't like in visual novel . (also like they say on the comments here , to many school settings ) The facts that the majority of visual novel i like don"t have these 5 points show that i agree with it , but maybe not in the same order. (with the exeption of the world building. I love world building , especialy when they match with the character and the thematics of the story ) The comic relief guy best friend is generaly more funny to me in western visual novel like Being a DIK. (i'm talking about you derek) In this particular visual novel , the comic friend has his own personality and his own problem . You could even ignore them if you didn't be a good friend (or depending or the route you choose , because despite being an adult visual novel , you can choose him instead of some girl , and these route are really interesting even if they doesn't change THAT much ). One of the best western adult visual novel , also because character are well written and it's not only about porn (And that something i don't like too , when character are poorly written and it's just about porn . )
@muffin7320 Жыл бұрын
3:53 Well hey now, I like to self-insert too, you know. ：д
@Christopherjazzcat 3 ай бұрын
Never forget that one time when the comic relief best friend's perverted nonsense actually ended up being super relevant
@james42519 2 жыл бұрын
Well funny ones i liked dont really have. Played echo, adastra, and others by echo project. Komorebi vn by klace. You seem to focus on anime daring games only but there are a lot of other types that are good.
@bobdmz6437 3 жыл бұрын
I wish more romance visual novels would have backup partners for all the heroines, so you wouldn’t feel like you were breaking anyone’s heart.
@TheAugustHail 3 жыл бұрын
Love for everyone!
@vozzy06 2 жыл бұрын
The good thing is, my visual novel didn’t has any of these bad tropes
@dwarfplanets533 2 жыл бұрын
Sunohara from Clannad is one of, if not, my favorite visual novel character of all time next to Rika Furude and Ushiromiya Natsuhi from When They Cry. I'd even argue that Sunohara plays an even bigger role in the Clannad vn than the girls. His presence rivals Nagisa's given how much of a role he plays in each character's routes. They did him so dirty from the very start. He is constantly bullied and attacked by Kyou, Tomoyo, and most importantly, Tomoya, his "best friend". Tomoya treats Sunohara like dogshit, which is why I don't like him as a main character. Even though he plays a significant role in the routes, he doesn't contribute much besides comic relief and humiliation, like in Yukine's route, Misae's route, and Tomoyo's route. In Mei's route, he did get some character development towards the end, but they made Sunohara look like an asshat towards his sister. You'd think they'd stop using the same jokes over and over again in every single route. That's why Clannad, to me is inferior to Little Busters on top of everything else that's wrong with Clannad (i.e unlikable girls).
@Sergey__Kazak 3 жыл бұрын
Completely agree on #5. Can't really disagree with #4 as well - there are too many adults like that in VNs indeed. However try reading the last three VNs made by Tone Works. About #3: can't really say I care much about infodumping, but I guess it depends on what type of VN it is, I dunno. Magic in JRPGs however, - try playing Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne - blunt objects won't help to say the least. And about best friend characers. Again: I mostly agree with you, but try reading See You At The Other Side Of The Moon by Tone Works, - that VN has two male best friend characters, Madoka and Kento, who aren't comic relief in any way. That VN overall is one of the best romance VN IMO. It's in Japanese btw
@TheAugustHail 3 жыл бұрын
Haha, I was actually channel by inner love for JRPG hack and slash games like KH and Tales, I just really love beating up enemies in those games. As for tone works, interesting that you brought it up, because a VN they did, Hoshi Ori Yume Mirai, has been on my radar for a while...
@Sergey__Kazak 3 жыл бұрын
@@TheAugustHail Instead of Hoshi Ori I'd highly suggest their fourth title Gin'Iro Haruka. That game is their attempt at making a VN close to realism as well as at dropping all the popular cliches. In GinHaru the protag lives with his parents as well as the heroines do (unlike many VNs). It starts in middle school (unlike many VNs). Each route is a story of 15 years of life and that too is unlike many VNs. etc. I've read it in Japanese, but I hear most of it has been translated EDIT: I've only read Sora, Misa and Natsuki's routes in Hoshi Ori, - Sora's was great, Misa was meh and Natsuki's was outright boring , so yeah I dunno - there's inconsistancy in quality in Hoshi Ori. GinHaru doesn't have that IMO - all the routes were great. Momiji's the best IMO
@Kindi001 Жыл бұрын
rejoice gin iro haru seems gonna be complite this year
@TheLunatrick 3 жыл бұрын
3:55 I imidiatly thought on Atsuko Urameshi in yu yu hakusho but they actually did it well especially during yusuke's wake but that is an Anime not VN lol
@desmondmalone438 2 жыл бұрын
0:59 and add more point on the number of eyes too
@KCGMiyu 2 жыл бұрын
Yuzusoft are pretty good at creating unique main characters imo. The fact that you're a special kind than a boring main character that doesn't even make sense why everyone is attracted to you.
@porky1118 2 жыл бұрын
I'm currently trying to make a visual novel (and a new engine). #5: I think it would be best to give the main character (you) some personality, but not too much. Some of the personality should come from the choices you make.
@DrayLoco 2 жыл бұрын
Haha I definitely felt the info dump trope. It can really bore you and bring you out of the story
@Mart1n192 2 ай бұрын
The Comic relief guy best friend trope is so absurdly annoying, you can tell the joke from a mile away since they are so one-dimensional
@namaanda5349 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks, this is a great reference
@TheAugustHail 3 жыл бұрын
Glad it was helpful!
@ArmyNavyAcademy Жыл бұрын
If only I cloths date the comic relief best friend.
@allopeep543 3 жыл бұрын
So I've played a few guy MC/girl LI VNs before switching to mainly otomes but one thing funny I've noticed is that in so many of the weirdest and possibly dangerous situations, the MC decides to describe a physical body trait of their LI. It's not too much of a peeve, but it's just so damn strange! Like I'm immersed in this superheated and action-packed scene where people are fighting and stuff and all of a sudden the girl goes "WOW HIS JAW IS SO SHARP OOOOOO" I guess it can be warranted sometimes but it just throws me off-guard lol
@mrnoob-333 Жыл бұрын
10:39 That thing made me sad & pissed off because they use some funny character for punch bag by other character and they get nothing in the end most times or worse dying in worse way possible or overshadow by over events and stuff
@motemo8413 Жыл бұрын
Perverted and loud best friend trope shows Genki - ok yeah shows Sunohara - i like him but yup shows Natsume - he is da goat fr shows Yoichi - hahahaha...yeah of course, totally, yupppppppppp
@eru9077 2 жыл бұрын
Oh, so this is why i find hakuoki anime is so boringgg. the protagonist is so flat and like you said before, a blank character. It is hard to symphatize its character when you feel no bond with her/him
@reintaler6355 Жыл бұрын
12:04 not that I disagree, but the character you showed here is anything but "comic relief"...
@xmgentertainment 6 ай бұрын
Are there any visual novels I can play I don't have a PC or know Japanese
@rivainni5172 3 жыл бұрын
Aside from what you listed: Starting in medias res. It's not bad in and of itself, especially since it's useful for both initial player interest and foreshadowing. Still, I find it annoying to be put in a scene where I have no idea why something is happening, and to expect no answers until much later in the story. This is fine for 2 hour movies, but in VNs the wait can be upwards of 20 or 30 hours. I've probably already forgotten the scene by that point. This next one is not a trope, but it bothers me. Some (or maybe most? I haven't read that many) VNs lack support for anything other than 720p or the 4:3 equivalent. At the very least they should have the UI scale to the closest 16:9 resolution to native so that the text isn't hard to read for those with higher res screens. I'm just guessing here, but I assume the original CGs are downscaled from a higher res too, considering how official promo art can actually be of higher res than the game itself. If so, then it makes little sense - unless there's some major implementation hurdle I'm missing - to stick with 720p only.
@TheAugustHail 3 жыл бұрын
Yeah the 640x480 resolution bugs me occasionaly, mainly because of my love for beautiful illustrations in HD visual novels. That and it's harder to integrate in these videos lol. One particular one I reallllyy want in HD resolution if Hoshizora no Memoria. God that looks so good...
@daeve915 Жыл бұрын
No.3 sounds like a skill issue
@GoldenPincers 2 жыл бұрын
Out of curiosity, because it caught my eye, is your use of Kyouko from Summer Pockets at at 3:31 intentional for your argument, or did you display a random adult character? If it's the former, I'm curious as to how problematic Kyouko was for you and why you didn't like her, if that's the case. Considering her role and presence through the VN, and her real role and presence that you learn at the end of the last route, I'm curious.
@TheAugustHail 2 жыл бұрын
Yes it was intentional. Kyouko was largely missing the plot as a whole, and I quickly forgot about her. As a result, her role wasn't as impactful as I would have liked.
@maxpayne4315 Жыл бұрын
I don't think Nimi is self inserted. He is even voiced.
@blacklightjohn 2 жыл бұрын
For me, I have seen comic relief friends that I have liked and liked how they were done in the story such as in World End Syndrome and Ethereal Enigma. Then there's other visual novels where I absolutely hate the other males are used. In Fate, Shirou's had two male friends: One whose beyond irrelevant and the other who is an antagonistic plot device to get Shirou in his sister's pants.
@TheAugustHail 2 жыл бұрын
Lol I actually forgot the names of those friends.
@Bucket_Taylor 2 жыл бұрын
Comic Relief best friend? BUT YUUTARO IS THE BEST BOY! AND JOU!
@desmondmalone438 2 жыл бұрын
2:50-3:48 yeah I don’t like them to it even made me wish for some of them to have a route for how desperate they are sometimes(especially her 3:15)
@realestofthereals 3 жыл бұрын
the way August is completely right
@TeamSakurasou 3 жыл бұрын
On number 5, I fully agree its why one of my favorite anime is high school dxd, the MC issei has a personality and you can see slowly but why the females fall in love with the MC. I feel like visual novels need to take some notes from that, I don't mind blank slates always but I wish we had more character driven MC's.
@TheAugustHail 3 жыл бұрын
Issei is one of those rare exceptions but he's got the backbone to prove it lol
@Twilightiger96 3 жыл бұрын
5. Definitely hit the nail on the head with this one. I mean I get the intent behind it, but would it really be that hard to give these guys a genuine personality so that we can actually connect with them along with the rest of the cast? ... Or at least give them a voice, god knows. 4. With this one, I kind of find myself feeling sorry for these types of characters. Which is a shame because whenever they aren't being used as comic relief and actually well, being adults, they can not only serve as a good source of wisdom (good and bad) for the main character and can be just as likeable and endearing as the rest of the cast... which makes me question how they're still single to begin with. On the upside, there are at least a few visual novels that actually allow you to personally rectify that, and while I personally don't find it as off-putting, it does make one question which is more awkward; the fact that the game would allow you to get into a relationship with your homeroom teacher, or the fact that said teacher would see their own student as a possible romantic partner and/or potential spouse? 3. Personally I don't really mind exposition-dumps all that much, but even I'll admit that they can drag on far longer than they need to. I mean do I really need several paragraphs worth of text to know how a magician throws a fireball? 2. For how much of a sensitive topic this is, this is definitely an uphill battle for any writer worth their salt... which makes it all the more infuriating when some use this solely for cheap shock-value. Sure, it can make you want to absolutely throttle the offender and throw their important bits into the grinder, but the way they write this into the story not only undervalues just what exactly happens to the victim in these scenarios, but it makes the whole ordeal less like a genuine tragedy and more like another plot device to keep the story going, and that is definitely not good. 1. [Refer back to 5] Second Verse, same as the first. Now lets move along before I personally put these horny dumbasses in a hearse.
@TheAugustHail 3 жыл бұрын
And then it turns out that the teacher is the best character in the whole cast but there's no side route for her...
@Nersius Жыл бұрын
Dear lord, they seem to go hard on the Matou assault scenes in the anime judging by that clip, very hard to watch. iirc in the VN Shinji's assaults are discussed ~3 times, not sure if ever shown, whereas Zouken's are more detailed.
@punbasedname9032 5 ай бұрын
From memory the only assault shown is the attempted one where Sakura kills him before he can do anything more than threatening her
@angeldutchess2996 2 жыл бұрын
Oh man do I hate blank slate MCs- doesn't matter their gender, they suck. I would much prefer playing as an ice queen asshole that changes for the better or a stubborn uncompromising paragon who fucks up due to their flawed personality. More uncommonly- I like it when games give you a chance to influence your own personality through player choices. Even if you only three types of personalities you can go down- its still your choice. I also find this one really strange because not only does the MC have the personality of a stale unflavored biscuit and the resolve of wet tissue paper- all these people like them. It makes no sense. People should not be attracted to the MC regardless of what he does or says. They don't work that way.
@marcochua35 3 жыл бұрын
Ughhh I hate 1 and 5 so much as well
@yuhdrava 3 жыл бұрын
good video
@cristo236 3 жыл бұрын
comic relief best friend slander
@AluneTheShaman 2 жыл бұрын
finally. Somebody that hates the comic relief friend
@zaregotoch.8491 2 жыл бұрын
The r*pe one is the worst. I hate it with a passion when they use it as a plot device for cheap shock moments. No idea why people like Muramasa.
@destinpatterson1644 Жыл бұрын
I'm late this this but my least favorite is the misunderstanding trope, it's so incredibly overused is so many visual novels and in many of them it's one of the few if the only joke they know how to make, and it's always the exact same with the same execution and punchline, it's not funny most of the time it just makes the characters look so stupid
@akiradkcn 2 жыл бұрын
Rape doesnt make unconfortable in fiction because wel... Because its *fiction* , so I dont care about it in fapbait nugikes. But when its just a case of writers being lazy and trying to force drama its just awful
@777rick777 3 жыл бұрын
I hate the idea of a route order, I'd rather play blind and make the choices that feel right in the moment rather than follow some guide. Hell I tend to not replay VNs all that much so feeling obligated to do all of the routes is just irksome
@TimaScribbles 3 жыл бұрын
I found the glider explanations in IMHHW excruciatingly boring. Really harmed the pacing of an already slow story.
@TheAugustHail 3 жыл бұрын
All that flight information just flew past me lol
@ArtofWEZ 3 жыл бұрын
OMFG this was the only thing that kept me playing the game, I can only play visual novels when I can learn something practical
@MysteriMaan 2 жыл бұрын
Katawa Shoujo Spoiled and destroyed me.
@CHEEZEyCHEEZE 2 жыл бұрын
What Anime is that at 6:36?
@TheAugustHail 2 жыл бұрын
Fate/Zero
@oldschooldeathmetal8417 3 жыл бұрын
I really like blank slate main characters because to me it feels like I'm part of the story too and the whole experience becomes more memorable that way, though I understand that maybe it's something that's become a little too common in visual novels. As far as the rape thing goes, I really believe it depends on the context of the plot, if it's something that fits the story and is used efficiently I really don't have a problem with it, if anything I think it's at least a good way to expose the absolute darkest most miserable sides of the human condition and I really appreciate that. I agree with pretty much everything else you said though, and I absolutely hate dumb best friend characters with a passion, actually I hate all kinds of comic relief characters, I think there are much better ways to insert humor into a game than creating an entire dumbass character dedicated to that one thing only.
@shepherdlavellen3301 3 жыл бұрын
There's also "romance" and "dating sim", I don't mind romance element as long as they are good, which in most cases they aren't, there's hardly anything deep or interesting going on in the romance routes (not even Fruit of Grisaia)
@vozzy06 2 жыл бұрын
August Hail: i want my character to have personality and backstory Me: Well… *look at my Main Character* he already has personality and backstory. So did i win?
@DrayLoco 2 жыл бұрын
Using rape as conflict is just fine it's like using anything else like torture, cheating, murder, etc. What's important is treating these things with care and having fitting writing around them. People get raped in real life so why shouldn't a story be able to explore horrible things and their effects on the characters and plot? Also, not related to the video, but there is nothing wrong with sexualization of rape or torture if you don't like it don't read it. Obviously if you want to criticize a story not treating it seriously or not being realistic in the aftermath of it that's another thing. Euphoria is a great visual novel imo that uses rape and torture as conflict and sexualizes both. What matters is making a good story not the use of rape or anything else.
@AbcDefg-zt8xy 11 ай бұрын
I like grape! ..ugh In visual novels that is. I wanna see a grape game where grapists are treated with respect and dignity! However silly that sounds. I mean it's still would be better than to force a cheap drama out of it just because author wanted to satisfy some viewers kink or add to shock value.
@Dinklr 14 күн бұрын
Ayo wtf 🤨
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