NGAD Battles: NGAD Squadron vs F-22 & F-35 Air Wing: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/i56HbJOjx5rWgac.html NGAD Squadron vs 2 x Russian Air Wings: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/gsqGYN13mZnNdnU.html NGAD Squadron vs China Air Wing: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mMx9jNiIq9i0n4E.html NGAD Squadron vs F-22 Squadron: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mOCUoc-JrtC0Z6s.html

Thing to consider with the drones is they have no human pilot meaning the G overload is only set to whatever the hell the plane can withstand. Imagine a NGAD pulling 20Gs :)

Peregrine is genius. With such a short detection range, you no longer need massive long range missiles. Instead loads of medium range missiles will do the trick and allow more targets to be taken out.

Brilliant job guys. Thanks to Dark and everyone for all of your hard work. I would only add that the NGAD program is designed to use bespoke loyal wingman ("LW") drones, meaning, they won't be unmanned copies of the NGAD jet itself. This doesn't mean NGAD won't be able to fly with AI software in an unmanned mode, but these things will be far too expensive to go ahead to the front lines without a pilot and get into the danger zone. This is why the decision announced so far is to acquire 200 USAF NGADs with 1,000 loyal wingman drones of various models (which are "attributable" to a certain degree, the military term for expendable) to be flown via AI and commanded by the NGADs and upgraded/advanced F-35s of the day. There are tradeoffs for the LW and much that we don't know yet. For example, what will their speed/range/stealth/armament be since it has to be somewhat similar in capabilities to the manned NGAD to make sense (although there will be manned and unmanned tankers available for fueling). Meanwhile, this also means some LW designs will have hyper-agility to dogfight if needed, as they can take advantage of no squishy human inside of them (giggity) suffering the G's. One manufacturer at a defense industry expo recently unveiled an AI OpFor drone that can pull 9 G's and flies at 0.9M to serve as a dogfight opponent in training, just to give one example. I still deem this video an absolute tremendous success and huge step towards doing futuristic things in DCS when DCS just isn't designed to support. You're breaking DCS in a good way and doing things many people want to see. I think most poeple would want ED to be more than what they are right now. ED can keep their high fidelity professional flight models primarily surrounding older tech no longer on the cutting edge. But, they should also hire dudes like you guys to develop more of a current/future-gen sandbox where educated assumptions are made to create modern equipment and have scenarios just like this. ED - hire them! Give them resources! Watch your sales and game grow!

One of the smallest, but best parts of my day is clicking on the video hearing "welcome valued viewers I hope you are all doing wonderfully well" from Cap. Without any ads in front, no bullshit straight to point. Love you Grim Reapers

Absolutely glorious, I concur! I think the Peregrine is likely to replace the AIM-9 altogether. From what I've read, it has a 3 mode seeker, rather than a 2 mode seeker, and Raytheon won't say what the modes are, but it is generally believed one is radar, one is IR, and one is perhaps some sort of ELINT sensor. Or maybe it's UV, for flare rejection? The loyal wingmen do need their AIM-260s, but I'm sure you'll figure that part out soon enough. Also note that the US Marines were just issued their XQ-58 Valkyries to tinker with, which can be launched from any ship, anywhere, or from land, with nifty little rocket boosters, and which have a 3,500 mile range, albeit subsonic. Overall, excellent performance from the whole team, especially for a first attempt.

I can't imagine the amount of work that went into that. Thank you everyone involved, entertaining and such a surprising outcome! Didn't expect that.

Now you need to perform the baseline air to ground test against the Japanese Imperial Fleet with the NGAD! 😂

people who think NGAD will be a dogfighter are probably the same sort of people who thinks the a10 can perform air superiority missions.

Would be interesting to see if the real life pilots were using the J35 against AI NGADs.

Dear valued streamer, I hope you're doing very well today😊 Thanks for some Saturday DCS nourishment!

From the Tack view it worked Perfectly! Your Strategy and your team's strengths are amazing... Amazing work GR and CAP!

Wow!! Flabbergasted, that was incredible!! Honestly, even before Simba spoke in the mission, I was keeping an eye on his sector of the map because I kept seeing them turning cold. That was freaking brilliant in my opinion, and from a doctrine standpoint, probably exactly how these things will be utilized. Damn good tactics Simba!! Great flying as always Grim Reapers!!

So good! really enjoyed this. Great job Guys! Thank you for the time and effort to make this as accurate as possible. Kudos to the Pilots!

NGAD: "We want the capacity of an F-15EX with the capability of an F-22 improved in a platform that can hop the pacific with 1-2 aerial refuel points maximum" I like it. When can I buy one.

Thank you so much Cap and Boys! 👍 Great video and it's giving me a lot to think about.

Such a thought-provoking exercise. Great job!

Good job!....learning more about the NGAD evertime!...

My understanding of loyal wingman (or NGAD) is that you are able to get 3 or 4 airframes searching for targets, increasing sensor detection and lethality more than the sum of the aircraft.... all will be digitally sync'd up, providing efficient battlespace awareness to the human (or AI) controller. It is almost time to place lasers on aircraft as well. Not there yet, but by 2035 it is almost a certainty. The first "smaller" land based anti-drone units are being put through trials now.

I think you got the Idea of the NGAD perfectly

Here for it. Amazing work.

Absolutely loved this video. I'd love to see variations on this theme, with air to air, as well as air to surface/ground. It would also be cool to see smaller numbers of NGADs, paired with 4 loyal wingman drones, to show that more could be done with less.

That was stunning. It really looks like a future battle.

Thanks Cap for all the hard work!

Really good video, Cap! Thanks for all your hard work! And thanks to "the boys"!

Just, awesome lads!

GR never disappoints ❤🎉

Great choices for your NGAD :) Well done Grim Reapers 🌏 With regards from Australia :) AUKUS rules OK.

Cool fight, it'll be interesting to see what the actual capabilities and intended doctrine will be for NGAD as this is still quite science fiction-y as is.

It will be interesting to see the differences between all the new 6th gen fighters. Great job on the simulation.

That was an amazing set up, good job guys👍 a perfect summary of what future air warfare is gonna look like

Here is an idea for a bvr battle. How about J20s vs J35s?

That was absolutely GLORIOUS!! Not just the victory, but the mission and setup of the NGAD itself. Just goes to show the power of the AI wingman + the Peregrine missile's insanely clever design? Who needs 200+KM missiles when stealth aircraft can't see each other at half that range? So design a 50-95km missile that's small and has exceptional tracking and manouverability within that range to completely sodomize enemy low observ/stealth craft? Excellent implementation in DCS you beautiful, beautiful boys!

That went suprisingly well. And scary. To receiving end.

First of really love your content. From a retired navy amateur perspective there is a big tactical subject area that I really didn't see addressed. NGAD Provides a huge tactical sensor advantage. Which place right into the navy's Pacific tactics of being every where with superior sensors to be able to detect, eval, guide weapons to prosecute and kill without being detected. Another Battle idea would be to use this thought process to defeat China's hyper missile threat from stand off range. That way Navy could protect against attack on Taiwan with less danger using preposition NGAD.

WOW - BRILLIANT Cap!! Thank you

Great job TEAM!!!

China's '5th gen' can't even challenge America's 5th gen today.

Well done..

Grim Reapers is building "DCS-Beyond"!! 😄 Peregrine should be renamed "SPAMRAAM"!! A future US carrier group sneaks in behind the IJN at Pearl Harbor, equipped with F/A-XX NGADs, F-35B and Cs. I just hope the NGAD (F/A-XX) doesn't end up being the size of an A-5 Vigilante. At some point we'll have the first "Around the world unrefueled supersonic flight". Think Rutan's Voyager but over Mach 1. I keep watching this video, and keep getting more ideas. A Gen 4 (Typhoon) with Meteors, and Gen 4+ (F-15EX) armed with Peregrine.

Wow this video is certainly a Futuristic Video cause no one is even close to activating this in their Military. But good thinking to the future...

Just love the fact there was a movie years and years ago …. Stealth ….. that called modern day well 😹

So, the various literature that's out there about the potential tactics for using drones like the Valkyrie with the NGAD is to either: 1) you sense, I shoot - send the drones out ahead to extend sensing range but keep them cold and dark as much as possible and send back detections so you can quarterback and work out a solution. Then either use your long range missiles, or call on 4th Gen missile trucks to rip. 2) I sense, you shoot - spread the formation out, use your own radar to detect, and let the drones shoot a bunch, and you keep your missiles to mop up, or take out any crtiical targets (like a C2 node, tanker, etc). Regardless, you put the drones out front where they can be in harms way, and keep the squishy human in the rear with the gear.

I look at NGAD as a small fast stealth AWACs with self defense built in.

sooner we get thoses NGADS in service, the better. great sim you guys . . . 👍 👍

How about an NGAD vs. Super Tomcat airwing. Great video. Very informative.

Very cool!

with that tiny of a radar cross section i wonder if the missiles would be easier to detect than the firing planes

A view of the what the Chinese could see on shared radar would be cool.

Great video Cap, GR, and all affiliated. I think you guys are dead on as far as the role you have developed the NGAD to perform. In addition, I feel the future flight computers and weapons development for the NGAD platform will be increasingly geared towards improved stealth & BVR abilities that will largely encompass intergration of Link16 and the "hive-mind" concept with the obvious increased priority the US has with the inclusion of drone aircraft. With that said, do you guys have ideas for creating a system that could simulate the power of Link16 in DCS? Or is that something that would be far too complicated?

Wow I am 3/4 the way through the video and this is Impressive for real. I just hope that is why and how it works out...

Same-ish but add the LRASM's for the boys...

That was awesome

I believe the NGAD will be two seater - the second man will allow even a larger group of drones to be commanded, and the mother plane may only have missiles for self-defence.

Drone wingmen would be a lot smaller with much smaller payloads, plan is to buy nearly 5 times as many drones as NGADs each a lot smaller than the NGAD.

That was an epic battle! Would be cool if it had a better radar compared to the standard AESA radar you guys use though (you should also make PESA radars for Russian fighters). Another thing that would be really cool to be implemented are towed decoys which have been in use for a long time now and constantly upgraded. Would make the F-35 an absolute beast in dodging radar guided missiles.

I think IRL the workload for one pilot will be too much. It will be interesting seeing how this pans out.

We need another Grim Reapers vs aliens simulation. This time all 5th/6th gen aircraft (F22, F35, Su57, J20, NGAD, etc) vs ID4 aliens

I think its disengenous to say that an aircraft that is good at everything is a "fantasy" We already have an aircraft thats good at everything. Its the F-35. It can conduct SEAD very well. It can conduct Reconnaissance and information gathering/sharing very well. It can conduct BVR missions very well. And even though people refuse to accept it because theyre stupid even though actual pilots of the thing have said so multiple times, The F-35 is a VERY capable and deadly dogfighter as well.

The navy version has kennards on it so I'm pretty sure it would be maneuverable and it's taking over for the raptor so I think that sums it up

I believe it was Alex Hollings who mentioned the 4 weapons bays 2 small ones and 2 large ones, he thinks the NGAD will carry 4 AMRAAMS in the 2 small weapons bays and 4 cruise missiles in the 2 bigger ones, maybe we can try some antishipping with NGAD

I just wanted the NGAD to come with a shark with a friggin laser beam on his head. Is that asking too much? 😂😂😂

UK vixen programme? a 2030 UK CSG would be amazing! UK wingman with F35B, spear 3 etc?

Turns out in late July 2023 Northrup Grumman said they would not pursue the USAF NGAD. Though some think they may take a crack at the US Navy version the F/A-XX 6th gen carrier fighter. It maybe that Northrup knowns that USN carrier fighter will have low production run. So it might see it as something it can produce with its available assets verses how many NGAD's the USAF will require. But its statements so far have been vague on both the NGAD and 'other projects'. Odds are then the USAF NGAD will probably be the Lockheed Martin plane they teased which has the nick name 'Bird of Prey'. Since the F/A-XX is intended to replace the the F/A-18 Super Hornet. I image it will be set up to fire air launched hypersonic anti-ship missiles. Which would be insane, since it can use the F/A-XX stealth to get it close and then hit the enemy fleet at hypersonic speeds.

Irony: Chinese 6 Gen will probably enter service before NGAD

I am guessing here, but I strongly suspect that the NGAD will have amazing acceleration: the engines the US are working on will be adaptive cycle with a thrust ratio in the 50,000lb class: this will be a big, heavy fighter, but the power to weight ratio will be far in advance of anything before. I agree that it is likely it will sacrifice a fair degree of turn performance and roll rates due to prioritizing stealth (likely no vertical control surfaces), range, payload. There is a small possibility that it could utilize blended control surfaces on its body (think the F-15 airbrake), or perhaps some advanced aerodynamic concepts could be used, but at the cost of weight, some stealth, range etc...not to mention cost and maintenance. It probably is not worth it. It may be the case that the NGAD will instead have 360 degree weapon launch capability. If that is coupled with some directed energy weapon that isn't just a single line of sight, then it could be a new ballgame for all. We wait with interest! And a FANTASTIC recreation.

Let's do 10th generation USAF vs a combined fleet of Imperial Star Destroyers and Federation Starships.

Interested to see how Tom Cruise can manage two 6th gen with an F-18 in the Top Gun 3

Very insightful sim! Have you factored in that the AI NGAD could pull G beyond human limits?

*Angry American noises* The people’s Chainsaw!!!! Well done Dark, CH and everyone else!!! What a fantastic video!

I hope you're doing very well? Yes, I'm coming to you from 6 feet under. Life is great being of the lifeless.

Nice, My request should be fairly easy for you as it's editing the same file: Do it again, only this time with a realistic number of Chinese jets out on patrol, maybe 3 pairs? (and carrier launch as would really happen as soon as the engagement starts), but with only one flight of AA and everyone else follows a minute behind loaded for anti-shipping. Can one flight suppress a carrier group's air power long enough to sink it?

Would be interesting to see what happens when take out AWACS with LR BVR to blind them and pick them off with hit and run using LO advantage

Do a revised Ngad vs F22.

Missile swarm works.

Fa/xx will probably have the Rotation Detonation Engine. So... Fast interceptor version too

So is the NGAD going to be an American stealth version of the Mig-31?

@grimreapers can the peregrin hit those lil swam drones? a few(ish) say 2x4plane flights of ngads from a airbase defend from 150(ish) drones

Potentially a naval & air battle? Have 2-3 flights of human NGAD (with AI wingman) and a US carrier strike group (with or without F-35) attempt to destroy a Chinese naval port with nearby J-20 & J-35 air support. A similar case of the simulated Chinese attack on San Diego, but a reversed test.

Acceleration is not a logical trade off. Comparing last generations NGAD (the F-14 with F-110 engines) acceleration was extreme, on par with F-110 F-16s or F-15s. I would anticipate maneuverability to actually be on par with current 4th or 4+ gen aircraft. Probably not thrust vectored, so not F-22 level maneuverability. That being said, the J20 doesn't look very maneuverable, my guess is NGAD will be better than a J20. Probably on par or better than the F-14, with better flight controls making it easier to employ.

GR really need to work on the subtitles

The NGAD fighters will have replaced their old cannons with high power lasers which means less weight to carry.

i really think you should use XQ-58 drones forward with 4-6 drones per human flown NGAD. have the xq-58's loaded with 2 AIM-9x each and the human piloted NGADs with the loadouts as had in this mission. the foreard xq-58's would use IRST to locate ant track targets forward of the human piloted NGAD fighter's. the XQ-58'S are CHEAP...loosing 10 XQ-58'S would be fard cheaper than loosing just 1 drone NGAD as was used in this mission.

NGAD will use SIAW, MUTANT, HAWC, Peregrine, Loyal Wingman Ghost Bat, Valkyrie, LOCUST, Gambit drone series, Longshot air launched UCAV, CRANE X-drones, Darkhorse, Fury.

Almost like watching stealth cap 😅👍

This is George A super-cruise of Mach 2.2 is more logical than another speed. When designing the supersonic transport Concord, they managed to super-cruise the transport between the speeds of Mach 1.7 and 2.2. At these higher speeds the drag was lower than transonic speeds 1.0 to 1.6. Speeds above Mach 2.2 raised the skin temperatures too high as well as drag began to increase again dramatically after Mach 2.2. At Mach 2.2 the Concord was actually more fuel efficient than a 747. While the Concord burned nearly twice the fuel, it did so at more than twice the speed and at these high speeds after-burners were no used. The Afterburners were used on take-off and accelerating through transonic speeds, but the bulk of the journey was conducted at Mach 2.2 with no afterburner. These lessons of transonic drag have not been lost for military designers, Military designers have known for quite some time the target speed for super-cruise is Mach 2.2. I offer this as I would think NGAT would also target Mach 2.2 as its super-cruise speed where transonic drag is minimized.

First and foremost id say the ngad is a command and control aircraft. In the sense commanding unmanned aircraft to do its bidding while at a standoff distance.

Could you see if you could model the GCAP Tempest?

And the enemy is using all the fuel 😊

Writing up some much more detailed stuff on the underlying physics, but it's taking so long i want to get a basic comment out there. Some comments you've made about how you've set the NGAD's up has me concerned because of the implications of the variable cycle engine. It may be your limited by DCS though, no idea. Assuming the maximum possibble fuel burn at any given speed and altitude is the same between a raptor and an NGAD, (it won't be, but the thrust will go up or down, relative to what i'm going to outline below, in correlation to the fuel burn rate difference), an NGAD will achieve very different thrust values compared to the rapor. At around mach 1 upto the Raptors maximum non-afterburning speed the thrust per pound of fuel burned will likely be slightly worse than the raptor. At anything below mach 1 down to whatever airspeed the engine hits it's bypass limit at the thrust will be higher and will go up very fast. Likely to a very extreme degree. Since range is a factor of thrust per pound of fuel burned vs airframe drag this also means it's maximum range will occur at such a speed, (the altitude this occurs at is dependent on whatever altitude they optimise for). the maximum rnage value will not occur at mach 1.9 as you had it et up here, (this was the big thing that caught my attention). At anything above the speed where a Raptor needs it's afterburner the performance of the NGAD's engines will depend on weather it has any form, (partial or full), of ramjet mode. If it doesn't the raptor will be more efficient all the way up. If it does then it will outperform the raptor past that point by a large margin, but not the utterly extreme margin it would at below mach 1. It's also worth noting that if it does have a ramjet function the engines will be capable of pushing the airframe much faster than whatever the airframes structural and thermal limit is, (as a reference point, assuming it had an infinitely durable airframe it should be capable of challenging the SR-71 record, thats how good such an engine would be). All of the above assumes they design for a max airframe speed not much higher than the raptor. If they go significantly higher the Raptor will have the edge all the way until it hits it's afterburners, but the NgAd would win from there on out. But that only makes sense if they want SR-71 or better top speeds and i don't seen that happening. Now obviously that doesn't necessarily mean it's going to out accelerate or outturn a raptor if it carries more fuel relative to its thrust, (as you have set it up here), but i 100% question if it would need that much more fuel than a raptor to achieve that much more range given the advantages of a variable cycle, though achieving that range at a mach 1.9 supercruise with the sheer amount of fuel you've given it probably isn't unreasonable. It just wouldn't be the maximum range speed with a variable cycle engine.

Boom

If you are loading the loyal wingmen (drones) with medium range missiles only (Peregrines), shouldn't you position at least one of then CLOSER to the enemy (ahead of his human "master") at least a bit (few miles) instead putting them just following?

I don't think they can drop the dogfight ability, or at least close range ability, because stealth on both sides decreasing detection ranges, should make them more likely.

Now, imagine a modernized B-52 (updated engines, avionics, RAM coating etc) capable of carrying 2-4 NGAD style drones under the wing to then be deployed as escorts on deep strike missions. If that sounds cool, which it is, read the Dreamland series by Dale Brown. Its awesome.

It might be of value to set up one day for demonstrating how NOT to utilize your NGADs. - dog fight - canyon running (limits of maneuverability) - impact of adverse weather on stealth coatings (if that's still a thing) - missile evasion tactics (can it dodge ?) - IR susceptibility from different aspects Also, try setting the drone-wingman to about 10x the NGAD RCS. It may be a better approximation of a Loyal Wingman flying Missile Truck duties,... Get the pilot more accustomed to a more distant separation on in/egress as well as illustrating the dangers of floating too far inside the AWACS zone while being wingman-aggressive ?? Just a thought.... watching a few 200 million USD aircraft go down in flames may impress a point on the fliers. Or maybe demo the classic 'ingress into radar/ground-fire-hostile' scenarios wouldn't work. BTW, do we know how the NGAD performs against those sense-but-no-acquisition/lock low frequency radars ?

What do you think about Gunns doing gci? I thinks it very needed !!! Lol I get a kick when the gang is together

The Chinese only got 3 missiles out. Wow.

Don't you think the strategy from the Chinese with planes like this, would be, keeping the J-15B's in the back or center and then having them support the J35's from there when they engage?

That's the Chinese Air Force down to gen 4 only...

And their British, the Periquin, that is.