Finally! I can listen to the entire video and not shake my head. Looking forward to upcoming tests. I just subscribed. Thanks

The fact that you are a well experienced long range shooter, and dont support shots over 600 yards, and your straight forward outlook on advertised velocities, and different things, has me wanting to see your testing. Cant wait

I appreciate your hard work...because it is in fact work! Your information is the truth so mostly I appreciate your honesty. Thank you for helping out the common man.

Great stuff. That was one of my fastest subscriptions to a channel in quite some time

Absolutely love my 7MM Rem,first gun 1973

Your no-nonsense approach has me really looking forward to this series!

Just joined your Chanel. Love it. Finally I can listen to someone who knows their stuff and doesn't sugar coat anything,, or is bias towards certain cartridges. Great work!

Congradulations on bringing target movement into long range hunting, as an ex sniper that has fired thousands of 300 win mag rounds I will never shoot at a moving big game animal period. I currently shoot a 28 Nosler and personally believe its the best big game cartridge up to brown bear with the Nosler 175gr ABLR. The comments of a fast cartridge being a barrel burner is so irrelevant to a hunting rifle that you only verify the zero before each hunt lets me separate the BS commenters from true knowledgeable shooters. Great presentation and I appreciate the cost and effort to bring truth to the shooting public, so thank you.

I just bumped into your KZfaq channel and subscribed. I am 69 and I hunted most of my life with a Remington 700 BDL DM in 7mm REM Mag. I have taken moose and deer with it and the only thing I did to it was having the barrel free floated and a Jewel trigger installed. Recently I was treating myself to a gift a new rifle. All the rage was the 7PRC and I considered buying it but after research I decided to get a Sako Precision in 7mm REM Mag. I stick with the calibre that I was familiar with and had great success with! I didn’t need the latest and greatest. My ammo for the 7mm is easy to get and the 7mm does the job for me. The longest shot I have taken with my 7mm was a 319 yard lung shot and the bull moose only went 50 yards and laid down. I love the 7mm for deer because I get very little shock and gel from the hit. Lately I stayed in the 7mm family and treated myself to a Tikka T3X in 7mm-08 but I removed the stock and replaced it with an MDT HNT26 Carbon Fibre chassis. Took my first buck with it this fall. I don’t think you can beat the 7mm family of calibers for performance. Oh and I watched the Gunwerks guy in a KZfaq video say that he didn’t like the recoil from the 300PRC. Looking forward to the series from Northern Ontario.

Excellent video mate very interesting and no bullshit well done, I love the 7mm cartridges the wind bucking ability and lack of recoil and how flat they shoot nothing compares, I have 6.5 also 30cal and 338 they all serve a purpose and do their purpose well but they don’t keep up with the 7 rem mag I own, I recently done some measurements and it’s grown 50thou in the last 350 shots so I seated out another 50thou and put another 2 grains of powder in and wow!! It’s shooting 162gr at 3156fps with no pressure and 0.3moa, long live the rem mag 💪🏼

Gday from Australia. This is the first time I’ve seen one of your videos. I subscribed about 2 minutes in! I love your approach and I’m looking forward to this series. 👍🏼

Wow ! Some practical, common sense , no bullshit commentary ! Love it !! Can’t wait for more

You had me at exit wound!!! Looking forward to series and seeing the rifle builds!!!

Can't wait! Most interesting info I've seen on KZfaq in a while. Been shooting 7 mag for 3 decades. I'll be watching. Let the chips fall were they may 👍🏻

I am smiling because your experiences mirror mine. Thanks. J.

Looking forward to hearing your take on the 7mm's, a personal favorite of mine for over 40yrs now. In my meagre collection, 7mm-08, 7mm Wsm, 7X61 S&H ( the last rifle I would ever part with) and 7mm Wby fill my needs. Any shoutout for the last three would put a big grin on this old guys face.

I totally agree. I will never ever use an eld on anything with hair ever again. The blood trail comes from a pass through or combo mouth/nostril lung along with pass through. Not to mention meat loss. Hornady ballistic claims cannot be met with my 7mm Rem either. Bonded bullets only for me. Nosler 160gr Accubond performs as designed. My fave.

Excellent, definitely tuning in to the series, love that slide guitar, cheers Yogi ✌️🤙🇦🇺

Sub'd in the 1st 10 minutes. I respect a no BS approach to life. Looking forward to this series and other videos you post. Best of luck in your endeavors.

I just had a 280AI built on a Win70 action. Two elk do far and I love it. I totally agree I’m recoil sensitive and have zero desire for a bigger badder 7

I`m lucky to have a son that is as interested in this stuff as I. We have been shooting together for a long time, H.P. , hunting and the such... we always liked the challenge of shooting distance...to the point of him building a .338 U.M.,cause he always wanted to shoot to a mile. So he did, and we did. I acted as a spotter down range with a radio, called his first two short, and he put the next three on target. Impressive. 300 grn Sierra. BTB, he builds our rifles on trued 700`s. As you are handloading this stuff, and it`s custom, push the throat out a bit on the 7 RM...and show us what it can do. Thanks

Looking forward to your videos. I was in the fence on what 7mm I wanted to build. I ended up finding lots of components and went with a 7saum in. long action with a good amount of freebore. It runs 180s real close to 2900fps and is very accurate it’ll do everything I ever need it to do. I also agree with light rifles.

Dale and Tim, So here I was passing the time by watching yet another “regurgitated information cartridge comparison” video when YOUR/THIS video appeared on my side bar. I was pleasantly interested in that you are now making videos on what your shop does. NICE !! Being a user and advocate of 7MM cartridges for decades above other caliber options, the title certainly piqued my interest. (I use and hunt multiple calibers and chamberings, but conclude .284 is a very wise option.) Five minutes into this Tim, this video did not disappoint. I have been shooting and hunting the 7mm Rem. Mag (1980), 7mm RUM (2003) and .280 Ackley (2015), so your 7mm cartridge choices as comparison certainly have my attention. External performance wise, they most certainly overlap some, and mine are in different rifles, all of “classic” design, because that’s what I prefer in a carryable, yet stable shooting platform at the moment of truth in a hunting rifle, and for visual esthetics to this user. They are of moderate weight and for reasons that compliment the balance of carry and stable and steady performance upon firing at game. Each have been used on multiple species of big game. Everything you highlighted I most wholeheartedly agree 100% with in terms of cartridge design and potential if the rifle is set up properly. KUDOS to you for having the fortitude to call BS in the latest marketing scheme of Big H’s latest design parameters and factory muzzle velocity hype on the 7MM PRC. It certainly is a fine cartridge, BUT, volume/capacity at a given psi pressure level, and barrel length is what determines muzzle velocity. Rifle set up with COAL in a proper length action (i.e. Rem 700, etc.) and chamber/freebore characteristics and terminal bullet choice further tweaks the end result. That’s it. There is no magic, just desirable set up and characteristics in rifle, action, chamber, barrel, and bullet. Informed enthusiasts know where you are likely going with all this in your subsequent videos. I really look forward to them. Thank You for FINALLY offering a video that is educated, informed, and truthful on all things rifle. Please keep them coming.

Good stuff. I am really interested in this series. I have been shooting and hunting and reloading for 3 decades and you have already taught me quite a bit. I really appreciate the honesty & humility. I have (2) 7mmRemMags and really do like the 7s. Well done Sir. Subscribed!

I was getting ready to pull the trigger on a 7 PRC and seeing this video was enough to give me pause. There is a lot of hype on the 7 PRC and very hard to separate fact from fiction. As an intro, this video contained some great "no BS" information. I am looking forward to following your series. Thank you!

Refreshing to hear some honesty through experience. Thank you.

This is fantastic! I’m excited for this. Thanks for committing to providing information on these cartridges. In your series, could you also briefly comment on factory offerings? I know you alluded to the 3.34” SAMI specs, but would also be interested in knowing a bit more about that, as I have not personally started hand loading yet. I do think the best comparison is what you’re doing with the same bullet, same barrel length etc. so I’m most interested in these results.

That`s interesting...thanks. The Berger I`m shooting is their 180 Hybrid Target, which depending on tip formation measures 1.53 to 1.56. My OA Cartridge length is 3.6, plus-minus bullet tip, CBO is 3.856. Needless to say, we pushed the throat out a bit to get the measurements. Seems to work. The rifle just pounds with this load.Thanks for talking and the info, and good luck with the project...looking forward to it.

Thx, very kind of you to take the time to informe me.

Subscribed. Like the no BS straight to the facts. Learning so much, love my 7 Rem Mag

Straight forward and no BS. I love it!!!

Hey Man, I really appreciate your point on “ethical” hunting…especially from an accomplished shooter like you. Thank you for that.

Looking forward to this series. Of the four I have the PRC ,very accurate, tossing the factory 180eld-m at 2850 from a 24" barrel.

I've been a fan of the WFT for a few years now - from a pair of 1's to load for rifles I no longer have, to the WFT 2 for my 9.3 Mauser and (most recently) my 280 Ackley, I have not found a better trimmer set up for me. Really looking forward to this series, especially for insight and ideas on loads for my 280 as it's the first long action I've absolutely loved shooting. As an aside, any chance you guys may put up a transcript for each episode on the site?

I just found your channel. I am really looking forward to learning more about your rifles, load development & the cartridge comparison.

Thanks for validating my results. Have shot and worked up safe 175 gr loads for this cartridge and come up very short of 3000 f/s. Factory eldx loads shot great but 2,825- 2,875 is where they fall.

Alot of good info allready in first "episode". I can tell that you are no BS guy. Thumps Up!

The one thing about the 7 mm’s that always amazes me is just how good the 7x57 Mauser is and how ahead of its time it was for being introduced in 1892! looking forward to this series, but agree for big game out west the long actions are the way to go!

Thanks...and now you talked me into getting some of thoese Hornady projectiles..

I own four 280ai two 26"barrel and two 28" various load work up with use of conagraph long before nosler gave it a boost. Thanks to Nosler we got reloading guides. Also 284win with a 24" barrel will give a 7mm remington a challenge.

Looking forward to this. I like the necked down 300 win mags too. Like 7mm Practical. I’d like to design a 7x57 Mauser case with the shoulders pushed forward, have a .290 long neck in an improved case with either 35 or 40 degree shoulders. It’d be just fun to design and totally not needed.

These days with the better bullets available, it seems to me that most hunters do not need an overbore mega magnum. As such, the 28N is really a niche option. On the other hand, you take a 280AI with a 168gr Nosler ABLR going 2800fps… and you have an efficient, well balanced, shootable cartridge that can deliver 2200fps/1800ftlb all the way out to 500m at 3500ft DA. I think for most ethical long range hunters that is plenty of payload delivered on target, and performance beyond that is in the realm of diminishing returns. For perspective, my actual 300WSM moose/elk rifle and 175gr Barnes LRX at 3060fps MV can deliver 2230fps/1930ftlb to 500m. This comparison makes me feel very impressed with the efficiency of the 280AI paired with the 168gr ABLR. Cheers!

Cant wait for this to unfold !!! 👍🏻👍🏻

I just subscribed to your channel. Maine North Woods Hunter here. I am looking forward to this series. I purchased a couple years back what I considered my dream rifle. I got it in 7mm rem mag and then a few months later the 7 PRC came out and I was wondering if I should get that cartridge instead. The Gun is a Christensen Arms Messa LR. I am on disability and I know there are probably a lot better rifles but with my income, this was as much as I could afford. The gun shoots very well. It is a little on the heavy side but being a paraplegic I do a lot of my hunting sitting in my truck, a tree stand, or sitting on the ground. I can't wait to see the guns you make for this series. I am really curious to see the results and to see if I should worry about the difference between the PRC and the Rem Mag. Maine North Woods Hunter (KZfaq)

This is gonna be awesome? Thanks for taking the time out to do this.

Very interesting video I have a 7mm stw built back in the early 90’s with a 27” barrel and it is a good rifle I am now building a 280 AI and I am doing it myself with some other friend doing the blueing I have a old 721 Remington and it’s chamber wasn’t cut straight too the bore in a 30-06 so being it doesn’t shoot good and always wanting to build one I ordered a barrel with a 1-8 twist 26” long pre threaded and short chambered and crowned now I am waiting on my finish reamer and go no go gauges I think it will be a fun project that will revive a rifle that wasn’t much good before doing this

Thanks for the video. Myself, I started shooting 300 Win mag and 338 Win mag at 13 years old. I've made phenomenal shots with those two cartridges and classic rifles (Win. Model 70s). I'm only a target shooter when it comes to practice for my hunting. Now, without concern of action length with modern rifles, I may be looking at the 300 PRC with 230 gr to 250 gr bullets. For a modern hunting rifle, I'm sure I could have a 300 PRC with a 24" barrel that's lighter than my Model 70s in 300 and 338 Win mags. Also, I'm not concerned about hunting with a rifle having 26" barrel lengths, though 24" barrels with a 300 PRC would be sufficient. I'm looking at bullets with a high sectional density and high BC. Deep pass-through penetration and a terminal affect on large big game. Grizzly protection in the Northern Rocky's is more than adequate, but if I were to go Brown Bear hunting, I'd take take a 375 Ruger. And if I wanted a lighter cartridge for big game hunting, I'd be considering the 6.5 PRC, and it would be great for wolves and other predators. A one gun for hunting, the 7mm 175 gr to the 195 gr bullets are great, but im just not a one gun man, I enjoy having a variety to choose from. I'm not a 7 PRC fan boy, though it's a fine cartridge. In these days of modern cartridges, I'm not a fan of the belted magnum load. Maybe the 300 PRC will be necked down to 7mm, also necked up to 338, and my favorite, 358 diameter.

I think this is going to be a very interesting series. Quick question. Maybe I just didn't quite understand what you were saying but when you say you will seat the bullet out farther on the rem mag, are you still using a factory chamber or are you using a custom rifle with increased freebore to do this? I understood you said the actions will let you seat the bullet long but will factory chambers. I''ve heard many times the rem mag will outperform the prc if you get a custom chamber that allows you to seet bullets out farther or are you saying that with a factory chamber you can still seat the bullets far enough out to use the 160 cx correctly?

Hello! Would you think that in the 7mm 180gr target bullet(hornady ELD (Match) I would possibly get away with a 1 in 9 twist rate or should I go for 1 in 8 or 8.5 . And could you consider building a heavy barreled action in 280 AI (barrel, action, trigger) if I was passing an order to your shop or do you only do complete gun. Thx, can't wait to see the next one.

I’m going to buy a 7mm….so needless to say I’m very interested in this series……I will say most guys can’t afford a custom hunting rifle and most of the people I speak with at the range don’t hand load so I think people should educate themselves on multiple platforms if they fall into the factory rifle and ammunition group.

I'm excited for this series, I think it will be great! Having said that, considering it's handloading specific, I do wish you'd include the 7mm-08 and the 7 PRCW just for comparisons sake.

I will run sims of all those 4 Calibers with same the bullet. As a matter of fact, since case capacity/powder are the only variables. The Caliber with the largest case capacity would generate the highest MV. However, with modern calibers such as the PRC series, the caliber is meant to shoot long/heavy bullet for the caliber with higher BC. Higher BC means less wind deflection and more energy at the target. I will also provide Exterior Ballistics Analysis too for the same bullet loads and for the highest BC per weight bullet, i.e. the bullet with minimum G7 form factor that can be stabilized with cartridge standard twist rate

Just bought a new Sako s20 in 7 mm Remington mag. They make the dbm an extra 1/4 inch longer for hand loads. Only hand loaded and shot it once so far. Best group was 1/3 inch group. I'm a fan of the rifle and the caliber. Looking forward to seeing your tests.

Looking forward to this non bias (no bs) comparison. I’ve always wanted a 7 and recently purchased a 7 PRC. 22” barrel Factory loads are well shy of 3000 but I frankly am not one to chase velocity. Whether reloading CX160’s or Berger 180’s my limit is 600 and both will get the job done

Someone finally approached this with objective reason. I’ve been waiting for a channel to make a video or series about this that isn’t mired with fudd lore or overhype of the modern design.

Just subscribed. Looking forward to a Data driven approach to this cartridge comparison vs a "marketing" approach. Refreshing to see a custom rifle builder articulating a sensible distance limit for the majority of hunters today. Disappointing to hear new hunters emphasizing the distance of their kill vs the quality of the animal or the expediency of the kill.

Just joined I live 40miles from you guys thanks for incorporating your views on what is ethical. You gained a potential customer. I shoot 7 Rem mag, I love shooting always open to other calibers, looking foreward to watching this series and more

Great topic, I am anxious to follow this. I do have a dog in the fight, so interested to learn more.

Would I be correct in assuming the chambers with but cut to saami spec?

I would be interested to know what is the difference between the CX bullets and Barnes? Why would one be better than the other?

Great things to come. I know it is an oddball but 7mm wsm.

Appreciate the reasonable take on shooting distances. Gunwerks and their constant glorification of stupidly long shots on game really grinds my gears.

Nice talk, agree with everything you said. You omitted prc pressure issues found with hornady factory ammo by many shooters so kind of looking forward to it falling on its face. Rem mag for me i think, keen to see your development process. Thanks...

Looking forward to it, I have subscribed. A man from Aus.

Great video. I have the 280 ai, 7 PRC and 7 rem mag. My custom 7prc will not do anything that my 7 mag cannot already do. Hornady factory 175’s only do 2900 out of my 24” barreled PRC. 168 LRX’s run at 2875ish with H4831sc. Nothing amazing out of that cartridge so far.

I think if hornady actually loaded to their advertised spec 7PRC would get a lot less negative criticism. Federal seems to load their 7PRC to advertised velocities. But if we get into an ammo crunch, federal ammo seems to be the first to disappear. Overall- I like where the PRC cartridges are pushing the entire industry - faster twist rates in barrels for example. This not only benefits the prc guns, but guns shooting “legacy” cartridges that still hold their own despite not getting the marketing hype. Hell if we were all honest with ourselves, 30-06, with modern bullets/powder/twist rates, can be used for anything in North America and does so without the fanfare.

Really looking forward to the results. Just shared your video on my channel

I like it. You obviously know your stuff. I did become less interested when I found out this is essentially a fully custom scenario. There are so many affordable factory rifles that cost a fraction of a custom rifle and aren't chambered for the longer than SAAMI spec ammo. I will watch your findings as I love to see good testing, but I'm not very interested in having to get a custom rifle and hand load all my ammo when I can get a sub MOA gun for $600. I know it's not sexy, but most of us are in the factory boat due to costs. I know the 7 prc has been hyped a lot, but it does have the good chamber dimensions and ammo in the factory offerings. I'll never need anything more than a 308 where I live, but what hunter doesn't like to think about the "if" scenario of getting to hunt in open country some day. Cheers

He is 100% right about a tikka. I built a custom rem mag with an tikka and I’m loading to 3.5”, a lot of work went into getting that to work. Redsnake bottom metal and had a smith open the action up to except to 3.612”. Never did do a long throat than Saami though. Didn’t feel the need since I got the performance I was looking for. But I do regret doing the tikka action. I always say choose a 7 rem mag over a PRC unless you go with a tikka. Then get the PRC. I’ll stick to custom rifles and the 7 rem mag or 30-06. Also for the channel. Is that a MBM brake? I run one on my 28 nosler and it’s insane. I can watch the bullet trace through the scope. The rifle just doesn’t move.

Great video sir! I’m going to rebarrel a 300 WSM to a 7mm short mag. I was wanting your opinion if you would go with the 7 WSM or the 7 SAUM? I appreciate it and thanks.

I was going to get a 7prc but now I’m thinking of getting my 270 wsm rebarreled to shoot heavier bullets not sure which way to go with it

Agree with you on the 3.6 OAL, did that some years back...lets the 7RM become what it should have been. Be interesting to see what you can do with it. A 180 Berger Hybrid seated to the 3.6 OAL in my rifle with Retumbo yealds 3020FPS. 26 inch barrel.

Would the 160 CX stabilize in all cartridges with the standard SAAMI twist rate? Thx

Just subscribed and looking forward to the rest of the videos. I'm currently trying to decide between the AI and PRC. I hunt elk in Wyo with factory monolithic ammo...considering reloading but haven't taken the dive yet. Very interested to see velocities at 500 yards which is my personal maximum hunting range.

I’m digging.. you know what’s up.!. should be fun .. subbed

So Hornady has said they were forced to change the preferred powder because of a shortage do you believe that? And would you expect them to switch back to the preferred powder when it became available?

Retired Chief Warrant Officer 4 Ranger Sniper Advancing To Tier 1 JSOC (CAG) 18 Delta Force Squad D & G. I Appreciate The Straight From The Hip Facts. My 2 Extreme Real Estate Firearms Were & Still Are My MK-21 & MK 22 In .300 Norma Mag. My SF Community Comrades Are Big On 30-06 Between 400-600 & Also Where Most So Many Cartridges Necked Up Or Down & The Others Go With 7mm Mag. We Always Considered The Accuracy & Robust Reliability. Over The Top Information. Keep It Coming.

Late to your series, but will get caught up. Regarding 7 PRC velocities, I got 2808 fps in a 22” barrel with Hornady 175gr ELD-X (5 shot average). I got 2937 fps (5 shots) same barrel with Federal’s offering using Hornady’s 175gr ELD-X bullet.

As an owner of 2 of these cartridges, 280ai and 28 Nosler, I'm very excited to watch this series. Quick question, are you guys familiar with Hammer bullets? They're a company out of Montana making high quality monolithic hunting bullets. Weatherby currently loads factory 280ai ammo with 139gr Hammer Hunter bullets.

An evidence based approach Love your thinking Can’t wait

Is that a beast brake on that gun on bench? I’m a fan of those

I’m glad you mentioned the 7mm/08. But why not showcase it too? I’m fond of keeping the round count on my main 300WSM moose/elk hunting rifle fairly low, and using a 708 or 308 as the high volume long range training rifle with the cheaper ELDX bullets. Actually, hunting Moose/Elk with a 7mm-08 is on my bucket list for the future. I will never be a bow hunter but getting in closer with a smaller cartridge is an intriguing challenge that I hope to experience in the future… The 7mm-08 is definitely no slouch… it is an extremely versatile cartridge that is a joy to shoot in high volume. Cheers!

I did a google search on these four cartridges and it looks like 7prc is the only one with a standard 1 in 8 twist rate…the 280 ai and the28 Nosler 1 in9 and 1 in 925 for the rem mag….my question is do you guys think the 1 in 8 is the optimal twist rate for the 7mm cartridge seeing as all theses rifles are 1 in 8…… thanks

Dang! I wish I would have found this video 10 months from now! Now I have to be patient 😂

Super vidéo but what you think about the 284 winchester

Doesn't the 7mm Remington magnum worst to reload compared to 28 nosler?

What do you feel the CX offers over the LRX?

Do you guys cerekote barrels?

I can’t say enough about your “no B.S.” approach. I currently shoot a 6.5 SAUM for Mule deer hunting and am looking at getting into a Seven. Bring on the “no fluff” data!

Looking forward to this!!!

about what powder capacity for 28Nosler hammer hunter bullets 177gr OVER ALL LENGTH 3.735 INCHES

Can you do a comparison on 30 cals. .308 win, .30-06, .300 Win Mag etc.

Great video. Looking forward to the series. I was dead set on a 7 PRC & was excited with the data out on it when it was released. After seeing some actual testing, I'm not so sure I just shouldn't build a 7 RM. Component availability plays a huge part in it. Thanks for taking us along.

Bring it on ! I own 3 of the big 7,s except for the 28 Nosler. I am tired of all the Hornady promotional lies. I own the 7 prc nice round but too much bs. I am 78 years old been a meat packer in Alaska in my younger years, (learned a lot about terminal damage of different bullets, etc). reloading over 65 years so, even used the trimmers you guys made, dale developed a recoil lug system for the 1022 that helped me a bunch. so I can see where this series is heading for just judging from the intro the 28 Nosler will out shine the rest. Looking forward to your new series, I can tell you know your stuff by the intro. will be fun !

I'm a little confused when you say that the 7mm Rem Mag has a "COAL of 3.340" - SAAMI for the 7mm Rem Mag COAL is 3.290" (just looked at SAAMI specs - not sure where you're getting the 3.340" number from - it's not mentioned for anything, including the reamer). Now, in my rifle, I can easily load out to 3.470" which also fits fine in my magazine, and I think most SAAMI cut bores will also safely load out at least that far, due to specs for freebore. But I don't see the number 3.340" anywhere on the spec sheet. Please clarify.

Can a Canadian get one of your custom builds?

7SAUM in medium action? Looking forward to this series

Own 3 rifles with rimmed cartridges and never had a feeding problem. On the contrary they feed smoothly. So not exactly sure where that comes from. Maybe explain it in a next video

Why not trying the Cutting Edge Lazer 160gr with a bc g1 of 0.620 for a monolithic, had good experience with them.

I never understood hornady's data of how you couldn't run a 154 gr projectile faster than a 162 gr. Also, I think that the 7mm rem mag data from them is neutered compared to nosler, sierra, etc. Just my 2 cents...