"Walking away more coordinated and more capable of coordination". Love that. For me, I'm walking away with an opening. An opening up future rather than a better defined one. Thank you. 🙏

"I find myself loving the good, rather than having to resist the evil." Being VS Doing Talk about coordinating!

Oh this looks fun! :)

This was pretty much magic happening here. I guess an interesting thing to point out is that all of us who are watching it are also having a sort of participation of this diologos. It is as if the wider consciousness of the collective human organism is building up synapses and beginning to fire up on a large scale. Can't wait to try and tap into what you have demonstrated here with my group of intrepid interlocutors

Ahhhhhhh!!!! My spleen, liver, heart, scrotum, leg, finger, etc. shouted 'YES' in one accord when the wife/partner connection dawned! No doubt, a 'halelujah' rose in me. What a thing to invoke. I feel honored to be a part of what is unfolding here. Cheers to this "corner of the internet." 🥂

Two thoughts, out of the many provoked by this conversation, first regarding the vulnerability of the world, would mean that our approach to it must be one of care. Second regarding the unthinkability of the future, consider how Unthinkable it would have been a few years ago for this kind of thing to happen on the internet. It was a privilege to listen to this.

Guy’s insight into intimacy and vulnerability truly lit me up. I can see how what he expressed works through my closest relationships and points to ways more intimacy (hence more meaningful relationships) can be nurtured, and also helped me to understand how intimacy is cut off through speech that seeks to control; to bring something specific into being I.e. attempting to control the future.. Definitely worth a rewind here (around minute marker 1:06:00).

What virtuosity! Bravo!

1:09:45 - Jordan notes, summarizing Chris, the aspiration to “live such that my future self is so de-anonymized to my current self that the difference is incomprehensible.” This is so extraordinary. If I may invoke my favorite movie that encapsulates the meaning crisis on a personal level (well, perhaps tied with the Matrix trilogy), I believe this is something that Pete Docter invites us to contemplate in the Pixar movie Inside Out. Riley can’t embrace that possibility in the pending collapse of her pre-adolescent ego. It seems as though she must hold it together, and if she can’t only exposure is possible. The desire to cover it over or hide her exposure seems the only sensible choice. The extent to which she can embrace her agency in moving forward rather than backward is the extent to which she can transmute that exposure into vulnerability and transcend the current moment into incomprehensibility to her current self.

1:04:27 "If my present is unthinkable to my past, then my future is unthinkable to my present.". I found that a remarkable perspective -- Yielding a kind of open possibility for the future that calls for a trust in something beyond my self. Thank you guys... still trying to grok much of this conversation! :-)

29:20 Training in vulnerability 30:01 Hearing. Its difference from seeing. 34:49 Sound can evoke other senses. 43:24 Two dimensions of dialogos. 52:15 Deepening ground beneath. 57:40 Calling the future and call of the future. 1:02:45 Access to the unthinkable. What's the maturity. Future is unthinkable to the present self. 1:07:39 Speaking with intention to relate/intimacy vs intention to control. De-anonymizing the world.

Something very beautiful has happened here.

Thank you so much for having, and posting this conversation. I found myself struggling to keep up, awestruck at the profundity, captivated by the resonance between my experience and your explanations. And just when my mind wandered, to envision myself as a satellite receiving this transmission, I heard the conversation change to the viewer and when I joined you four in laughter it felt as though I was among friends.

Here because this conversation was referenced in the Rebel Wisdom talk by John.

Everytime I loose a bit of hope, I come back to this DIALOGO DE GRANDES, and I immediatly start feeling better about the future of the World. 🙏

These are truly special ❤ Love the level of conversational co-ordination skill in this encounter 👏

1:20:00 Resolution speaks to me in this sense of seeing in greater (pixel) density. Ever comprehending/appreciating a greater level of detail that enables me to more accurately/finely coordinate myself with reality. I can better navigate/negotiate/ respond in/with/at/to whatever fills the moment. If I see in 8 bits my way is impeded by the obstacle of a black pixel. If I see in 64 I may discern that within that mostly black space there is just enough room for me to squeeze by. It's really beautiful to see this field/system/holy-spirit/thing that is born of relationship, thanks!

I'm surprised my phone did not blow up from the wattage of the IQs on this screen.😍

The part where it talks about becoming mature and looking back on your former self and realizing that things you are now doing or the way you are being was Unthinkable at the time, I have experienced that myself in terms of love and patience especially. I will find myself having a loving attitude toward someone that I know I previously could not bring myself to love or I will find myself being patient in a situation that I know in the past would try my patience and create a lot of internal disruption. Even though I was not consciously working on becoming more loving towards that person, or becoming more patient. But I find myself there as a surprise. I think of those as the operations of God's grace on my soul, being formed by him as a Potter's vessel participating by yielding Without Really knowing exactly what he is forming in advance.

minute 70 and what comes to me is: "I chose to follow a path not only that I don't know where it leads me... but I chose it because of that"

The conversation around the understanding of trust is brilliant (around minute marker 37:00).

Thank you Guy for making this possible. I've been following this conversation across the channels and years its been happening, I've recently discovered you, and I think what happened here is a highlight of what all of this searching represents. I think your additional contributions have really pushed things forward combined with what Rebel Wisdom has started. This dialogue started slow and unassuming but built wonderful momentum, each of you contributing exactly what was needed to move it forward. It showed that one can be aware of the flow they are in and work to maintain it for the duration of the conversation. It did feel like a jazz riff. You all are an inspiration to me.

Thank you all.

I really enjoyed this really interesting, in the moment, unfolding conversation. Thanks, guys!

Ahhhhhhh!!!! This is one that I will be listening to and chewing on for days (weeks?). Much gratitude to you all.

Wow, thank you so much. Please keep doing this.

Thank You for sharing ..... I thoroughly enjoyed watching the creative process in real time.

I just this half hour found "Circling" exists. The concept is sounding similar to a process I was fortunate enough to be client to for seven years that allows me to live authentically in each moment. The only purpose was to release bricked up concepts that kept me on the other side of being okay with my present moments. I wanted to be me, I knew how I felt me couldn't be the authentic person, that portion was gagged with a sock and duck taped from having freely voiced needs supported as valid and encouragement to be expressed as the nurtured form of me myself and good with me, solidly me. Our group was 7-10 members with two co-facilitators. This was 1992-1999, our facilitators were degreed and experienced therapist, RNC, MSW, PhD, MD. Group once a week no absences allowed zero holiday from it. Say the MD PhD once a month. This changed me from jumping out of life. Is this mostly for men seems most comments are men. That's cool I think I need to know. Timeless moments.

18:50 If you want to shrink something, you must first allow it to expand. If you want to get rid of something, you must first allow it to flourish. If you want to take something, you must first allow it to be given. This is called the subtle perception of the way things are. The soft overcomes the hard. The slow overcomes the fast. **Let your workings remain a mystery. Just show people the results.** Tao Te Ching, 36

Ringing.

Around minute marker 20:00 the image of Dorothy stepping out the door, encountering Oz and verbalizing “ Toto I don’t think we’re in Kansas anymore” comes to mind.

At around, 18:00 when the word appreciation is used, I called to mind Pageau's reminder of the relationship between care from above and support from below. A sort of Heraclitian notion of the flux or tension within Logos. This is wonderful at only 20 or so minutes in.

really grateful for this coming together 🙏 my observation: John is talking to mutch and not fealing his body , and John trying to moderate the convercation ( seems like a mistake to me ) 36:02 Jordan starts channeling....fun !

🙏 Thankful for those beautiful exchanges . Vulnerability is a foundamal key. Its like if every transcendant stages of cognition seems to be protected from the egoic and unpure emergeant agent by only a barriers of language towards the ultimate language of love that we can feel from every stages and getting distilled by putting ourselves in that open and vulnerable stance.

Everybody into the physiological pool, that was great.

This is so meta. Nice Jazz. Thank you.

Groovy jam, y'all. More, please 🙏

Thank you for sharing this. Transformational work. I found myself really wanting a slower pace for all of this remarkable conversation. Especially the incredible moment when John said "maybe the world is vulnerable" I felt myself really wanting to feel the reverence being held in that moment. I was moved, but then the conversation just plowed ahead.

Thanks. That bit of laughter near the end shows how strange juxtapositions or other bits of outrageousness inspire humor which is like a safety vent, and the repetitive laughter has a calming effect. The co-creational awareness identity inhabits the space created by itself (sound vibrations, scent etc. language) and to see it in two places at once is unnerving. Is that the doubling mentioned?

Where are the women?

So so good these conversation . as they articulate what I experience in conversation with a handfull of people dear to my being and also in awe for the process of the conversation itself between you all. Me too I walk away more expanded and coordinated from this conversation ... ; Little note : At the end with Master Eckhard eye quote (which by the way I first experienced in an embodied way before knowing the quote) your conversation made me link it to the spiritual ophtalmology that Alan Watts is talking about !

So when John is talking about the difference between holding oneself back from what is wrong verses finding oneself in the state of being averse to the wrong I think that does touch Christianity right at the point where we talk about the virtues becoming habits. it may also connect up with the spiritual progress of moving from sins of commission to sins of omission. Where the spiritual fight becomes not so much Temptation against what is wrong, but moving towards what is right in an intentional way. It is a kind of gathering or collecting of the powers of the Soul that were dissipated and now being able to focus those powers on some good aim.

These are the conversations I love to be a 'fly on the wall' for...

Wow. So much.

I just absolutely love watching everyone's process of thinking and feeling being woven together into a greater set of concepts than any one individual mind brings forth. So warming and invoking courageous hopefulness..

This is still vibrating 3 years after and affording me a better understanding of myself. Thanks. Where can i find info about courses you do with John and Chris?

Thanks guys. The I that is I is the I that all I's are I

In the background I could hear Master Zhuang (3./2. ctr. B.C.E) murmer: "Told You, didn´t I?" Especially in the "Inner Part" several basics of the Conditio humana are dealt with in the Master`s outstanding literal-philosophical style, like: Who am I? Who, why, what, or how "is" this strange-familiar Dào (in the wider Daoist sense)? What can I know? What shall I do? What may I hope? What is man(-kind)? (--> Immanuel Kant`s "magic philosophical quadrangle) What is/does metamorphosis, resp. "inter-being" to (every-) me (--> butterfly parabel)? What has "flow" to do with the Dào? etc. ------ This feeds in the large stream of "philosophia perennis" (--> A. Steuchus, 1540 C.E.) and adds i.m.o. some interesting colours to it. What the old Master most surely had no knowledge of --- or at least not in the same way as we have today ---, were the structures and functions of the nervous-system, and especially the central nervous-system and it`s (basic/necessary) role in "world-building". The study of the history of science (--> Needham/Wang, SCC) quite firmly leads to this conclusion, but does not exclude the possibility of valuable "first-person insights". What Your talk also brought back to my attention, was the phenomenon of "collective identity". For some time I did studies on "ritual symbolic acting" (ger. "rituelles-symbolisches Handeln"), where I came upon the concept of "Communitas", introduced by V. Turner, alluding to VanGennep (?): Ritual performances can "induce", "drigger", and "synchronize" a state of consciousness, where the participants feel (and act) "as one". This may seem strange to some people on first sight, but I`m sure everybody has/had such experiences some places, some times, only they mostly went/go unattended, resp. (ex post) unreflected. So, nice inspiring talk, thank You.

Interesting video. I would love for you to contact Maximus Peperkamp to explore with him the distinction between Sound Verbal Behavior (SVB) and Noxious Verbal Behavior (NVB) as explained by radical behaviorism.

Guy - Where you misheard by the group at 1:07:40? What I think I heard you say is to enter a dialogue taking the posture of control is to attempt to de-anonymize the future. And this would be a contractual rather than covenantal relationship.

Nice circle

wow

1:17:00 oh this doesn't happen in person. It only happens via digital or radio communications. That being a semi-conductor of intimacy and vulnerability of the world?

57:36; Keller, Kellard? notion of aspiration and causing a future self that calls me.

Guy, the link to your Facebook page does not seem to work, just fyi

It almost seems like the more simple and powerful something it, the more the engagement has to be complex; this might be because the movement between simple and complex and vice versa is the range of movement that creates the awareness identity. More range equaling more 'being' and meaning/relation to being? Edit, so if civilization is like a balloon that fails when it pops, this ties to loss of meaning as language and other means of circulation become homogenized..lots of it but lacking somehow (relational way) and the failing of civilizations is the swelling and popping of these balloons from this homogenized loss of engagement.The range is diminished as the size of the group grows, because the efficiency of that group is less and this constrains complexity of engagement. Being bowing to efficiency in that case. Can either have a global awareness identity with humor as the focus, or a world with cities as tourist destinations and eco villages replacing suburb sprawl, allowing enthusiastic do it yourself and connection while preserving the ecosystem of complexity, or why not both.

57:40 (personal timestamp)

Sophrosyne

Phaedrus! Ahhhhhhh!!!! Writing Worth Wrestling With (W4)

circling-sophia 😉

My face when I am listening to this: 😌

Creating a cross-reference -- Nick Redmark offers up some commentary on this diologos on his channel: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/h9NgZtp-q9PNaX0.html

36:41 Musicality of Intelligibility - Poincare's harmony

Will the real Marduk please step forward ?

Y’all need some friends . Stop talking like that.