"This character is bad because they beat the main villain on their arcade mode" has to be the funniest reason to hate a fg character.

"Why literal child are on a fighting game? they dont belong here" -Tekken with fucking bears fighting on the distance-

Every time the " doesn't belong in " argument is made, a certain defense attorney sneezes.

I think the problem is in losing to "kawaii girl" character. It hurts your pride, maybe even unconsiously.

I clicked on this anticipating a discussion of wildly overpowered characters, not learning that apparently the Fighting Game Community suffers from Cute Aggression.

“Tekken is a serious franchise” *literally has a playable panda and a bear

"Nooo you can't put joke characters in my serious fighting game, it ruins the LoRe" well tough luck buddy, at least you don't have to deal with goddamn SNK Heroines being CANON

6:04 Ironic considering the name of the guy demanding she be removed is called Hsu Hao, a name shared by a Mortal Kombat character who fans believe to be one of the worst in the series.

"They're too anime!" said the person playing a japanese video game heavily influenced by anime

Seeing how Tekken is a "serious franchise" that embraces absurd humor makes me wish for a Yakuza crossover even more.

One thing to point out about Ingrid in Alpha 3 Max is that her arcade story contains a bit of mistranslation; The actual story goes is that Bison (somehow) stole Ingrid's seal (the two gold hair caps she wears on her head) and used it to power his psycho drive, and Ingrid goes to get it back. She's not claiming to be the true owner of psycho power.

so the short versions are... Ingrid: hated by exactly six extremely loud people for a reason no one remembers anymore Lucky Chloe: hated by people who take the game with the literal kung fu panda way too serious Marie Rose and Honoka: Roman Reigns heat

I think the dislike for Ingrid is orders of magnitude smaller than the one for the other characters. I didn't even know the community hated her, just like, was passively annoyed at her.

"why are there literal children in a fighting tournament?" May : happily and casually smacks a dude with an anchor

People seem to have forgotten that Tekken has always been an absurd game. I'll never forget the first time me and my friends saw Tekken 1 way back then. We thought of it as that weird Japanese fighting game with a robot samurai, a bear, a guy with a leopard head, and a purple guy. It also gave us this strange Japanese game-show feel.

Marie Rose is a breath of fresh air to a franchise where most of the females are associated w/ jiggle physics, and has become one of my favorites. But since DOA has a reputation of being a titillating series, her "underaged" design tends to make certain people uncomfortable. As for Honoka, I personally find her very generic as an addition to the roster since she's a top heavy schoolgirl whose moves are from the other characters of the game.

Yeah the hate for Ingrid is something that I always grew up hearing about but never heard a reason for WHY. Which is hilarious on it's own

What main story in tekken 7? You fight goons and then Kazuya throws his dad in a volcano.

Personally i feel its ok to have those "annoying" or "troll" characters in fighting games in fact i love to see fighting games with creative characters

The Lucky Cloe drama made the least sense. She wasn't a child nor was she overpowered in the lore. Ignorant players just complained "She doesn't belong" in a game with boxing kangaroos and dinosaurs...

If Faust can be in a fighting game, anything goes at that point for me lol.

I have no issue with Lucky Chloe. Why? Cause I like to play as a Luchador wearing a jaguar mask that snarls and roars in order to communicate. Who am I to deny somebody the chance to play as cat-eared idol?

Ingrid seems like the kind of character people label "Mary Sue" and then just turn their brains off and hate, honestly. I can't speak to how true that is, though. I wonder if it doesn't have something to do with all these characters being feminine in a very particular "cutesy" way rather than any sort of "female warrior archetype" type of femininity, if the distinction I'm trying to make there makes sense. From the looks of it, Marie Rose and Lucky Chloe seem like the sorts of characters who don't really show much combat inclination or experience in their affectations right up until they are literally in the process of doing a combat to somebody. They don't outwardly "seem like fighters", I suppose. So, they have miens that are typically actually DISassociated with combat proficiency despite in reality being, well, skilled fighters. I think that sort of thing can create a really fun contrast, personally, but I guess a lot of people are really put off by it.

"why are these literal children in a fighting tournament" so we forgot about the trope of having _actual_ school girls running fades with martial artists?

You discussing tekkens tone made me realize thats a big part of why i like it. Its like one piece or monster hunter, the seriousness/drama go hand in hand with the absurdity and quirky shit. I really love it

The part about tekken made me realize that Miguel will probably be a joke character from now on :(

I hated Marie and Honoka appearances, but that faded away once I saw them fighting and seeing that they were not just there to be two most popular anime tropes, but were design with actual care and style that's just as entertaining to watch as any other DOA character.

I'm one of the few people that actually likes DoA for the fighting (I don't mind the booba either) but it is true that Marie and Honoka took the spotlight and alot of fans are a little upset their favorite character doesn't get a decent spotlight anymore. My favorite characters in DoA are Christie and Lisa but because Japanese fans pretty much dictate the pecking order those 2 haven't been featured in a long time, not even getting included in spin-off games

I find it hiliariously ironic that a twitter user called "Hsu Hao" thinks Lucky Chloe is a trash character

I think it boils down to the general stigma of cute girls doing cute things. People are more than willing to have female fighters since they often share masculine tropes for the simple fact of being fighters in the first place. Being sexy comes as a bonus. However, having cutesy fighters kinda crosses the line for the "HARDCORE" slice of the FGC since the archetype for the most part reject the typical sexy or strong tropes of a female fighter. This is why DOA fans have little to say against Ayane despite being younger than Marie or Honoka.

I had no idea there was a community that hated Ingrid, I felt kind of cool going into this video with knowledge of who she was thanks to MattMcMuscles’ Wha Happun channel but then was wildly blindsided by the fact that she was so disliked considering she never really had a proper existence

"Why literal child are on a fighting game?" gave me a good laugh, but tbh imo, literally anything/one can be in a fighting game. You can play as a literal plant and completely obliterate Sephiroth in Smash

Tekken has an actual bear who goes into space at one point. I don't think my immersion can ever be challenged with Tekken

In defense of Abel lacking personality it’s a part of his character that he doesn’t have an identity. I think it’s fitting to have the man who struggles with who he is to have no personality since he hasn’t found it yet.

As someone who only knows Ingrid from Project X Zone 2, I love her. She is snarky and funny and has trouble opening to others but her heart is in the right place. She has very genuine interactions with the rest of the cast (to be fair everyone does, it's a game written by Monolith Soft, human interactions is their jam). She does end up opening to other characters and creates very honest interactions.

In the case of Marie and Honoka, both debuted in DOA5 as DLC characters, thus never had a chance to get any character development til 6, and even then they're somewhat "main" characters of the story til - once again - the ninjas take center stage.

For the record, I want to say that I love Lucky Chloe, and the idea of eternal edgelord scumbag Kazuya having an insanely cutesy over-the-top Idol who never turns off the cheer running his PR is *fucking hysterical* and it's criminal we haven't seem them interact in-game

Lol if sakura came out today, she def would get shitted on

One character I despise is Patroklos in Soul Calibur 5. When they revealed him I wasn't that fond of his design, seemed like he was just hyper focused on looking flashy but not adding anything new to the game. But I didn't care that much to begin with, I usually don't play the sword and shield characters. However when I finally got to play the game I learned to absolutely hate him. The story mode was completely focused on him and his sister Pyrrha, none of the other new characters got any real spotlight, Zwei and Viola definitely deserved more than what they got. It didn't help that the story was pretty bad, but how they depicted Patroklos as a true hero and such was complete BS. He was an complete idiot at best and an awful human being at worst. He was moaning and complaining that he lost his sister long ago and would do anything in his power to find her and spend his life with her and such. He finds her and she, for some reason, is a complete outcast and isolated from society. They are happy and joyful for maybe a day or so until he finds out she's been hanging out with a bad crowd, servants of Soul Edge like Tira because they were the only people in the world that at least pretended to giva a crap about her. After Patroklos, our hero, found that out he, like everyone else, abandoned his long lost and beloved sister, leaving her to be swallowed up by sadness, isolation and get corrupted by Soul Edge. Patroklos, our great hero, again starts complaining that he misses his sister and then realizes that his beloved sister Pyrrha now turned into pretty much a demon that only wants to destroy everything and now he must defeat her. As far as I can remember never once in the story do they emphasize that he is the reason why everything is messed up, he is always portrayed as the great hero that will save everyone, when he should've been the villain. Especially considering the awful things he did. Patroklos just sucks, everything he did just made me hate him even more. Before the shit-show with his sister he just ran around and murdered countless people because some rich dude told him to and for some reason he was convinced that he was a hero or something. Naiveté only goes so far until you simply are an idiot. If you've read this far, thanks! Now you know why me and many other Soul Calibur fans absolutely hate Patroklos. P.S. Not gonna lie, Patroklos' and Pyrrha's theme song "Home is Faraway" is really nice, so why not give it a listen.

I legit main these characters cause people hate them

If you ask me, I think the hatred toward these characters may be rooted in a general distaste towards "moe". Fighting game fans seem to prefer their female characters to be sexy and badass, not cute and girly. It's why characters like Chun Li and Cammy from Street Fighter, Baiken and I-no from Guilty Gear, or the Williams from Tekken are highly regarded while these girls are looked down upon. Even though these hated characters can kick just as much ass as the rest of their respective casts, the fact that they do so in a jovial and girlish way tends to put off a lot of players.

After the Lucky Chloe backlash, I, a man in his late 20s at the time. Picked her up a launch and played ranked for awhile. I genuinely think she's fun and I was hoping when people lost to me they got more upset. I do think its a "cute girl in fighting game" thing.

"Why are these children in a fighting tournament." From my understanding Marie Rose isn't a child, she's an adult who was designed to look childish as a "fuck you" to censorship in a particular country (Forgot which one it was.)

I'll tell you my theory: these characters conflict with the person's head canon. Like most fighting games play fast and lose with the story right. It allows players to make up their own story, for any one of the obviously not main characters to be the star of the show. This is Ingrid especially. I know in many folks heads Street Fighter didn't have litteral gods involved, it was about Mortal men doing Mortal men things...that were possible in this universe. Things change in alpha where Akuma at first talks like he's a literal demon. Look up his Alpha 2 ending, it reads not like he's Gouken's brother but like he's a demon who came to our world to "perfect his killing power". I think that's what the problem is. These people have built up a story in their head over multiple games and the introduction of these characters takes them right out of it, because they can't/won't fit these newbies into their canon.

its really funny how people got mad about Lucky Chloe being an idol, and then the Tekken guys made that fighting game mode on one of Idolm@aster's gacha games

Hang on, let me try one too Bison: dead in one hadouken Charlie: literally killed off for being too good Ingrid: *I ' M G O D. Oke?*

Something I wanna point out here is that there's some serious sexist undertones about why people hate these characters. They are female characters who don't conform to fighting games stereotypes. The reason people don't "hate" Sakura is partly because of her inspiration from Ryu. The reason people don't hate Rose is because of her link with Bison. Women in fighting games need to be presented in a way that's not annoying and has a familiar fighting style. I don't see nearly as much hate for somebody like SF4's Rufus, who is a geniunely annoying character who is just jaded by Kens existence, than I see for Lucky Chloe.

funny enough my biggest problem with this video is just you saying that Alpha 3 MAX was on “okay port”. Bro it’s like the definitive edition of Street Fighter Alpha 3 out there! Only downside is it’s stuck on the PSP :(

I can imagine the hate because the character's design only fulfills the Japanese fighting game communities' pop culture. Ingrid was hated because of the game she debuted being the worst fighting game Capcom ever made, Lucky was just one of those idol cultures that was pretty strong in Japan and the dev team possibly take feedbacks from fans for idol-esque fighter and Honoka/ Marie Rose is the only ones that I don't even know was hated.

If there is one person in this website who's willing to have a genuine, polite and sane discussion about this subject, it's definitely Majikura/ABI

Thank you for this video. I personally like these types of characters (Ingrid specifically), and I do not quite understand the hatred for them. It's nice to see the echo chamber break and someone bigger actually question why people think the way they do.

This whole thing is honestly a really interesting conversation and notable how the three series at play in this video are the Japanese franchises that broke through to international markets the most among fighting games. There is a possible point to say due to their increased popularity that there are simply more people to complain about things. A thought on the matter I have had about these characters is how 3/4 of them fight with very little effort being shown. Effort is there of course but perhaps some of the more fragile egoed players among us can't handle losing when the character who bopped us is swatting air with sparkles, dancing or disarming with cutesy and harmless body language. Maybe it's a really base and really stupid idea that these characters are too much focused for a Japanese culture (or what many consider the Japanese culture) This is honestly a super interesting talking point though, the idea of what would happen if Sakura, who is among the most popular SF characters showed up today for the first time and was just doing Shoto moves...interesting to think about tbh. Thanks for this video!

Oh now i remember why i hate Ingrid, i got BEAT up by her, the CPU has no mercy.

Meanwhile, BlazBlue has characters like Rachel and Platinum, as well as Jubei who's a literal CAT.

About the "capoeira would not work on a real fight" bit: Capoeira was invented by slaves as a way to train martial arts by disguising it as a dance. And as someone that practiced it a bit when I was younger I can say that the time I accidentaly made contact with someone from my own age, the foot I hit their face in a spin hurt af for an entire week, while the boy didn't came back to school for some days. Capoeira can absolutely wreck you up if you remove the dancing bits and actually make contact.

Honoka gots two nice personnalities.

Abel character traits: Searching for a sense of identity A bit naive Resents being a clone/Shadowloo body Like animals, especially dogs Quiet, but friendly. Gief weirds him out. I mean, he's not Juri, or Viper, but he's there...

I didn't know people hated Ingrid I always thought her design was cool

That's deep man😮 I believe FTG is about representing yourself and performing your own style. When we were young, some like to be cool, some like fire magic, some like to annoy others, that's how we choose characters.

I wonder if the reveal of Honoka as being a daughter of Raidou has changed her reputation any. Also it's a bit disturbing how much of creep Raidou is come to think about it.

Had no idea Ingrid was hated. My guess is that because the game she comes from is Capcom Fighting Jam, a notoriously bad game, people associate her with that game and so they hate her

I find it hilarious that people are saying they hate Rose and Honoka because they're "pedobait" ...as if Dead or Alive wasn't sexualizing underaged teenagers for the first 4 games. LMFAO

8:45 Pretty much nobody got a real story in this game because the tournament was canceled, which kinda sucks TBH (at least half of them are not canon). I also feel the need to mention the more serious role that Chloe plays in the canon. She's an idol/pop star who works for G Corp which holds power in much of multimedia around the world and they use Chole as an influencer. Talk about breaking the 4th wall.

People literally just hate on cute petite girl characters.

These characters prove that people in the FGC can't have fun sometimes

Are people still fucking mad at Ingrid after all these years? I'm like, one of 10 people that even *played* that game.

I still remember Seeing Capcom Fighting Evolution in stores when it first released and I didnt know what to expect so I was kind of excited and bought it. From that time I played the game I only remember since Ingrid was the newest sprite in the game I ended up using her and only remember the sparkles, not much else. Loved how everyone made fun of her in Project X Zone 2 and a few characters pointed out shes just a plot device lol.

I don't think I'm in the minority when I say that what drew me into fighting games as a genre was the fact that every character looked and felt different from each other and I loved it (this is actually why I hate Brawlhalla because every character feels the same and they look like they're the same guy/girl cosplaying as all these different characters) I'd have a better understanding of why these characters specifically are hated because they suck to fight against i.e. Leo from GG Strive (another side note, I main Leo and he's really not that hard to fight against for me whether I'm also using him or not) or even Lucky Chloe herself. But the sentiment that a character "doesn't fit" only works in Mortal Kombat where they take themselves way too seriously up until the end of the match and someone decides to friendship. My headcanon here is that the hate for these characters comes from an extremely vocal minority like the amount of people that unironically enjoy Brawlhalla (yes I'm gonna continue dunking on that game, stop asking questions) TLDR; Some of ya'll just don't like anime girls

It's probably because they're too cute and those people are embarrassed to be seen playing those characters in public. This video is also applicable to almost every Arcana Heart character too.

IIRC because of the bad reception I think Harada had Lucky's bio updated to say she doesnt get along with westerners

With both Marie Rose and Honoka I genuinely don’t understand why people say they don’t belong

I am glad that Lucky Chloe character exists even if their personality is very annoying to me, the gameplay is very well tuned to make the opponent annoyed, it is like a weaponized annoyance. Though I kinda chose to have a headcannon that she actually has a much more Kazyua like personality and that the personality she presents is just the "cute" persona, while beneath that mask is a cruel and calculated sociopath. And what would make me like here more in the next instalment is that her persona gets to kind of slip off from time to time in gameplay. This would give the character the actual depth.

As for Lucky Chloe....we got Alisa, two bears, Aztec Pillar Man Shrek, a doctor whose fighting style is a pure WTF-fest, a wooden puppet....and Yoshimitsu. So the complaints about Tekken not being realistical or serious is no longer compatible or relevant. And thats been for a looooong while.

Correction: Street Fighter Alpha 3 Max isn’t a port of the PS1 version but rather it’s own thing combining all the assets and animation from the arcade version, all the characters that had shown in different versions up to that point (including Ingrid), all the game modes from the Saturn version plus extra modes, new features, and so on. It’s the most feature rich version of Alpha 3 and visually as arcade perfect as it gets outside of the actual arcade version (it’s just ok”).

I love Lucky Chloe & Marie Rose, I love how proudly feminine and girly they are! It’s not often we get girl characters that’s just a girly girl & feminine; it’s usually one of two, with the classic hyper feminine which I personally love & the “I’m not like other girls” typeI especially nowadays which isn’t bad either but can be hit or miss if not written properly. In regards of these girls I was definitely in the minority in loving them as characters and their design & probably still am but I genuinely believe a lot of guys can’t deal nor handle losing to such a very “girly” character especially if they picked thee ultimate male character thinking it was going to be an easy win. It’s the “haha you got beat by a girl” rib, that a lot of dude’s just don’t feel comfortable with because for them it’s embarrassing.

Tekken is a serious franchise... Me looking at the Negan trailler: there is a guy with a bat beating the shit out of the whole cast which includes a ninja, a demon, a guy who defeated a demon and a soldier who defeated each of his cursed family. Also me: that alone is making me laugh!

The part that tilt those people (at least from what i can see) is the "cute looking girl beating the shit out of you " stereotype They can accept the chiseled god looking guy decimating his foes but the little girl in a cute dress is too much to believe At least that's what I think is going through their heads

Lucky Chloe doesn't ruin the game (that actually goes to pre-nerf Leroy), but Lucky Chloe can ruin your fucking day.

I actually love Chloe, I'm a huge fan when someone use dancing as a fight style.

Today I learned Ingrid is detested, which is weird, cuz I could have sworn she was a fan favorite all this time (I think she was in Puzzle Fighter?? Maybe that's what started the hate cuz I remember her being hard.) I always loved her design, and I dig the idea of her being a time traveling progenitor of psycho power.

I’ve honestly never had issues with these characters. I will say, it was a little bit funny to me, back in the day, that characters like Lili, Kula Diamond, and Ingrid all came out around the same time. Since they all looked somewhat similar. Same with when we got Rufus and Bob around the same time, or El Blaze and El Fuerte. I think the beauty of fighting games IS the variety in styles, both functionality AND character design.

As a Lucky Chloe main, i can understand the pain when fighting her, as I struggle myself despite knowing how she works. But i use her myself simply on a design basis. She appeals to me aesthetically and usually thats all I need to pick someone up. Its why i also main Xiaoyu, because i can make her look like my OC. Seeing people hate on her as a chatacter hurts my soul but it just makes me wanna get better with her. Knowing Harada likes her makes me happy though, so shes safe for now. Edit: lol the Tommy Wiseu got me

While I would never describe these characters as "ruining fighting games", I don't think they are exactly good designs either? So I feel the dislike can be understandable if they are seen as bad designs that don't feel like they mesh with the established cast's cohesion. Frankly I have had this issue with most of SFV and KoF XIV's newcomers that tend to feel too cartoony or too lazily designed. As for those mentioned in the video, I think Ingrid would have worked fine in a KoF or Rival Schools style game, but in SFA3 her moves felt super out of place, and the fact that she was a newcomer who was said to have this godlike power that came out of nowhere didn't help. I feel the reason Lili works while Lucky Chloe doesn't for me personally, is while Lili is also a very feminine fighter, her classy and stylish ballet kicks feel like they would hurt like hell and can make you buy something as impractical as ballet as a martial art. On the other hand, Lucky Chloe is hitting you with gloved cat paws, and her kicks feel like a lazy ripoff of Eddy Gordo. Plus it is really annoying how she takes an established veteran in the series like Eddy into a complete joke in both his and her story modes for a cheap attempt at humor (like how Gang-il reduces Kim Kaphwan into a whiny loser). As for Honoka I have no issues with her design since she fits her series just fine, but I find her use of other character's moves super lazy especially for a relatively recent character.

Thought it was Melee Fox in the thumbnail and that this video was going to be discussing games and their respective "broken" characters

i think the hate comes from the archetype they embody, the "tsundere little sister" archetype and that archetype isnt recieved well in the western world, if somebody irl was this cocky this smartass and dealing this level of mild abuse (of the kind seen in many tsundere) anyone whould have the urge to cave their face in for causing me pain without any reason, and that is how they appear in the games, reveling in your character's pain and your anger as if they looked at the screen and smiled at you, and when you end that match in that angered state you cannot place it to the opponent bc either you dont have one to blame or its online and you cant get mad at a gamer tag and a single match, so you direct that anger that was created by this character into the character and your wishes to never see them again just watching this video without playing any of these games i got why so many hate them

I didn't know Ingrid was hated or even at their level... I actually felt positively about her and wondered why she wasn't around more

I’ve never heard of anyone hating Ingrid. Also. Capcom Fighting Allstars looked so cool to me. I’m eagerly awaiting the day that it is leaked.

I really like when fighting games add characters who are no serious and fight in very weird ways. I think it was a genius idea to put Pheonix Wright in MVC 3. Dude's ultimate was literally proving you murdered somebody and getting you convicted.

ABI: Here are some characters. Me: Oh hey, my mains from their respective games! ABI: People hate them. Me: ...oh dear.

I think you hit the nail on the head with Lucky Chloe and Marie/Honoka, though I'm surprised you didn't mention how much Capcom Fighting Jam was disliked by the FGC at the time, and how it's pretty much the poster child of the dark age of Capcom's fighting games in the early/mid 2000's. I feel as though the hatred towards Ingrid is at least somewhat linked to that, what with her debuting in that game.

Damn the girl in black& white dress has nice moves. They really look cool. Liked Lucky Chloe the moment I tried her in T7

My dude, at the height of DOA’s popularity it WAS a legit fighting game, it was just still a bit underrated compared to the likes of Tekken. And I would like to point out that DOA is also has absurd crazy features such as a giant octopus, dinosaurs and exploding skyscrapers as stage iterations. That to me is crazy fun 🤩

Die-hard fighting game fans: "Cute anime girls don't belong in fighting games except for Chun-Li, Sakura, Cammy, Asuka, Lili, Xiaoyu, Kasumi & Ayane because they're cute anime girls." Me: "HA...?!"

I actually didn't even know about Ingrid, Marie Rose or Honoka before seeing this video. Marie Rose in particular might actually get me interested in DOA, that fighting style sounds like amazing fun.

"Capoeira won't work in a fight" Okay... The dance wouldn't but the actual fight would work pretty well

Ok I never understood that they were hated for other things then just "cheapness", at least for Lucky Chloe. In the sense that they are easy and powerful

"Why literal child are on a fighting game? they dont belong here" Laughs in Rimururu

Chloe was just... annoying to fight for a lot of reasons, and that really didn't help. Her Rage Art, which especially in low ranks gets spammed as soon as people get it, does more damage than other characters, which could lead to comebacks off an invincible reversal deleting most of someone's HP. Not so much of a problem at higher ranks where people can block, but for casuals, it's pretty annoying. She also just generally has a kit designed to steamroll new players. Lots of attacks that are very easy to perform and require more than the basic fundamentals of blocking to deal with. Again, not at all a problem at higher ranks. For casual players, she's obnoxious to deal with and deals way too much damage for how easy she is. For experienced players, her basic tricks don't work on them and she really has to work for her wins. Chloe's just kinda the perfect storm of being mechanically obnoxious and being hostile to a character the community adores. She's a fine addition to the game on her own merits, but handled pretty poorly as far as introductions go.

Lolli girl characters that look like they’re 13 but the lore says they’re extremely powerful will never really be popular among fighting game fans

After watching this it makes me realise that every time I see a character that I hate I eventually overtime begin to enjoy that character