The most underrated comic book superhero team. What a mythology. The Star Trek of comics.

When I was a kid, Legion of Superheroes was my favorite comic. I thought that Jim Shooter was the best Legion writer.

My brother and his friends, when I was maybe 5 years old, used to take turns buying Adventure comics with the Legion and handing them around the neighborhood. Years before Gwen Stacy died, the death of Ferro Lad (written by very young Jim Shooter) was startling.

Seriously slept on, one of the best groups ever, I recommend all the stuff from the 60s in reprint or whatever form you can get and you will become a fan.

My favorite part of the 60's book was the letters column. The ships, character suggestions, and plot corrections were a joy. Fandom culture was been around forever.

I grew up reading my Mom's Legion comics from the sixties, which got me into the medium so the LoSH made me a second-generation fan.

Dawnstar and Shadow Lass are my favorite Legion members!

My favorite Legion era was the silver age stories by Edmond Hamilton. The stories were dramatically stilted a bit by 60s editorial restraint, but there's still such imagination, and they laid down a very strong sci-fi tradition that has never left the Legion. People today forget that Hamilton had earlier in his life been the co-creator of the space opera sub-genre in the 1920s (no Star Wars without him!) and was a borderline legend as a pulp writer. He was the #3 "Weird Tales" writer after Robert E Howard and HP Lovecraft. He did stuff with the Legion that nobody else in comics would try in those days, including occasionally killing members or giving them bad outcomes (a trope young Jim Shooter continued even after Hamilton retired to return to prose fiction).

The Keith Giffen Legion poster from the 80s is still my favorite birthday gift. I spent many hours, days, years trying to identify all the characters. In the 80s DC released several digests of Silver Age Legion stories which helped fill in some of the blanks. Just recently I started on the omnibus and have almost completed my goal 36 years later. I know I could have gone online to do this but what's the fun in that?

Ever since I watched the LOSH animated series as a young kid (yeah, I'm a pretty young fan for a series as long as the Legion), the Legion has been my favorite team. I've been making my way through all the Legion comics, all the way from Adventure 247 to Five Years Later. I really love the early 80s era especially, with the Great Darkness Saga being one of my favorite stories for the Legion, but I also really love the rebooted Legion from 1994. I feel like the best version of the Legion would cherry-pick the greatest elements from all the different iterations the Legion universe has gone through!

Man, what a blast this was! Joe hit the nail on the head near the end, when he talked about the Legion being this hopeful, heroic idea of a bunch of folks being inspired to do good by the legend of Superman.

I like comics chats on KZfaq from people who actually read comics. Thank you Perch & Friend

I never got into DC Comics but I should have been a fan of this because of the fantastic costume designs and alien concepts and architectures.

I still want to see Jonathan Hickman writing the LoSH.

Anybody remember watching the cartoon show Legion of Super Heroes?

The legion is really a very underrated team. Their whole concept of a group of weird alien heroes who live incredible sci-fy, fantasy adventures in the future is incredible (it's basically x-men + star trek). I really hope that someday in the future someone like Geoff Johns (who from what I heard is huge legion fan) get the chance to write the characters. I also hope that they get adapted in their own movie or tv series, in the same way characters like the Doom Patrol or Stargirl were recently.

Once... one of my favorite teams, particularly with Superboy. Loved the Grell run, the Cockrum issues, and of course, the Levitz/Giffen run. Can't wait to listen to this one!!

I want Legion of Superheroes to be made into a live-action movie soon.

Abnett & Lanning's 5 year run was freaking epic!

I've been a Legion fan since I got into DC. Its one of the more interesting and unique corners of the DC universe. I really like the Levitz/Giffen runs in the 80s. The post zero hour run is fun too, and I don't hate the threeboot run either. Its just a shame Bendis got his hands on the legion. Brainiac 5 and Wildfire are two of my favorite characters..oh and Dream girl.

We need Hickman, Geoff Johns,and Tomasi all on a legion title Hickman-Legion of Superheroes Geoff Johns-The Legion Tomasi-Superboy Give legion the green Lantern rebirth treatment please

Excellent retrospective! As a child of the 1960/70s I read many of these stories off the rack and appreciate the research you've done for accuracy. One thing, though the 1989 "Five Years Later" story line by Keith Giffen/Bierbaums was not "my" Legion - jettisoning any typical fan-boy resentment I may have had from the change itself - I found that storyline fascinating, well done, and now consider the first 38 issues as one of my top 10 Legion stories. I file it under a big "What if?" I even re-read it a few years ago and it holds up very well. Regardless, I was happy when they introduced "Batch SW6" and what would become "The Legionnaires" series. I think that reboot was very faithful to the original, and remains underrated.

Loved both the original Legion and the reboot Legion. Nothing since has really connected with me outside of the Legion of Three Worlds mini series.

I loved the "Legion of Superheroes"...

I think I can shed a light on where things went wrong. I've been reading the Legion since 1963... and there was a story where several of the Legion ladies go out and just go shopping. They run into trouble, of course, but it's small time trouble that gets a little out of hand, but ends up resolved without big fight scenes or crises.... it was a superhero 'slice of life' story. That was what made the Legion different... they had lives. They did things that were just regular people things. They had down time. It wasn't crisis to crisis to crisis. But in 1986.. DC became ALL about crises and they just kept happening and the Legion got dragged into it and became the same - I mean, Giffen BLEW UP THE MOON! The 2000s (threeboot) was about bored teens in a "utopia" who wanted to rebel. That got axed with the entire Legion being shut down (literally) for a reboot into the godawful Justice League 3000 (also by Giffen). Then they hint at the Legion coming back for 5 years, reintroduce a surprisingly brain damaged Saturn Girl who gets ERASED in Doomsday Clock... And now we have a new Legion that's half Booster Gold and half... I don't know what. The Legion's success was because it WAS simple and optimistic. I mean, come on - Bouncing Boy? He was the ultimate mary sue - the chubby guy who gets to be a hero AND gets the girl(s)... but we could relate to him. I still have my flight ring. I still have hope. But it does get harder with time to hold onto it.

I loved the legion when Paul levitz was writing a long story arc and I liked then when the legionnaires were introduced, but other than that they have not been the same since. Even Bendis relaunch/retcon doesn't work

I’m almost 60 years old and have been reading the LSH since I was a kid. It is, and always will be, my all-time favorite superhero team comic book. The runs in the mid-60s, the mid to late 70s, and the mid to late 80s are the standout eras for me. I’m going back and reading the Mark Waid stuff now and am enjoying it.

Perch, great video. The Levitz era in the 80's is my favorite; Earth War, Great Darkness Saga, War with the Legion of Super-Villains, the Universo Project, the Final Confrontation with the Time Trapper, etc -- just too many epic storylines to mention. I totally agree with you guys about Jim Shooter's run though - he's the guy who really turned it into something new, special, and exciting. There were a handful of writers that seemed to oscillate off and the book in the late 70's, like Starlin, Conway, Thomas, and Levitz. But once Levitz became the stable ongoing writer (with occasional writing help from Giffen) it felt like he really started to build a definitive vision of the DCU's future using the foundation that Big Jim laid down a decade beforehand. I get that some people don't like DC Silver Age comics - but I'm one of those guys who even likes even those old school original issues. Are they essential Legion reading to a casual Legion fan? Probably not, but they're cheesy fun and I think the art in those Silver Age issues is very nice. Poor Lightning Lad had a hard time back then, he lost his arm, died, and was brought back to life. Not to mention that later in the 80's, he goes insane and cracks under leadership pressure, fathers Validus, and has to confront his insane brother, Lightning Lord. He's had it harder than anyone. LOL By the way - I did not know that Levitz originally intended for Sensor Girl to be Supergirl, instead of Jeckie, but editorial vetoed it. But that makes so much sense now. That fits in hindsight because at the time it seemed so stupid that Jeckie's powers magically went from "illusion casting" to "omnipotence" overnight. I never cared much for Waid's run - it just didn't feel like the Legion to me. I actually liked Levitz's return 10 years or so ago, although admittedly, it didn't hit the same highs as his original run. I also kind of liked Niciezia's and Pete Woods' Legion Lost. I love the Great Darkness Saga, but I actually recommend new fans read a few other stories before that, to get their feet wet. I think GDS has a bit more impact if the reader knows who the characters are first. There's an awesome Elseworld's story by Mark Farmer and Alan Davis called Superboy's Legion that's actually a pretty good introduction for new readers. I love Johns and Perez's Legion of 3 Worlds; but it's definitely not new Legion reader friendly. Bendis' run is awful. Just stay away. The art is very nice - but there's too many character changes and too much nonsensical babbling and annoying jibber-jabber. It's not really the Legion. Just avoid it. Heck, you're better off reading Legionnaires from the 90's, or even the milquetoast Cary Bates Action Comics era than this current one. At least Cary's stories make sense.

Did anyone read or remember the Mark Farmer / Alan Davis elseworlds "Superboy's Legion". Farmer wrote and inked the two issue story and Alan Davis did, what I felt, were fantastic redesigns of the outfits but keeping with the feel of the originals he pulled from.

My favorite comic book series/ team of all time.

I almost forgot about Laurel Gand, best Supergirl ever.

The reboot legion and the cartoon were my first introductions of the team and to me will always be my favorite versions of them.

my most favorite comic ever... the originals pre-Zero Hour. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Legion is awesome for the costume designs alone. I had to go back and look at X-Men #107 to see how direct the nod to the Legion was in that book and it was a lot closer than I remembered.

I have a lot of fond memories of watching the cartoon as a kid with my dad. He was a huge fan back in the 70s and these past couple of years has REALLY gotten me into the team. It's a crying shame that there hasn't been a movie based on the team yet, although based on how most of DC's movies have turned out this past decade maybe that's for the best. I disagree with your points regarding the Waid run but it was clearly cut off before it could really blossom into something special. The Bendis analogue to JJ Abrams seems pretty spot on but the first volume of his felt to me more like Star Trek 2009 than Rise of Skywalker and I hope he has enough clout there to really have a substantive run that goes new places and brings the team back into the limelight. Hickman on Legion is of course the dream writer once he's done with X-Men but we'll see what happens. The DnA run is probably my favorite from what I've read (it's a CRIME more of that isn't collected in trades) and Legion Lost especially is possibly one of my favorite comics ever. Even with some disagreements this was still a fantastic deep dive into a hidden gem in DC history. Long live the Legion!

It was 1971 and DC expanded their comics from 32 to 48 pages. Adventure Comics and Superboy reprinted early Legion stories followed by a few 100-Page Super-Spectacular issues. I'd read Legion stories a few years earlier in Adventure and Action Comics, and the reprints from Superboy #147, but this was my first experience with those early Legion stories on somewhat of a regular basis.

I'm only at 13:45 where they are talking about the x-men so I don't know if it will be mentioned later but both Storm and Nightcrawler were originally put forward for the Legion.

When I got into DC, i started looking at post crisis(and 0 hour) stuff and immediately went to Legion. Time Trapper and Mordu(+LOSV) are great villians IMO

I’m getting hooked on these old comic book stories

I love that you did this. I grew up loving the Legion in the 70’s and 80’s. On the other hand, my favorite series are the more eclectic team books that are less popular anyway.

Modern fans would probably be shocked to know that Legion of Super Heroes and Teen Titans were DC's top selling titles! And really the only books challenging Marvel back in the day. Good days! The Great Darkness Saga was awesome! I recently bought a grab box that had the Giffen series. It might be alright if you sit and read it. But it doesn't work on a dynamic level. A lot of subplots that don't seem to matter.

The Legion was damaged when John B. determined Superman was never a Superboy. So they tried the pocket universe deal, then Mon-el was turned into Valor and it all died with Zero Hour and never came up with anything I cared about. The Legion was about fun and a bright future for man. The five year time pause while the UP fell apart and wars happened between member planets and the "grim and gritty" universe that resulted kill off the title.

The first Fatal Five story was my introduction to the Legion and fed my burgeoning love of comics. I will never forget the death of Ferro Lad and how it shook me up. I still suspect he was intended to die from the start. And when I was a teenager, those female Legion costumes were a joy to behold.

The 70s have been the best era of Legions Of Superheroes. Timberwolf with his „demon eyes“ and „devil horn hairs“ is my absolute favorite, but most underrated.

I've always loved the Legion. The concept and the characters that is. The property has rarely been well executed IMO and hasn't really lived up to it's potential save some brief periods here and there. Loved this video. Thanks as always for great content.

The Levitz run, I loved the saga of Cham losing his powers and having to go to his home world to get his powers back. All that came out of it changed the character and he was one of my favorites (much like Vision in Avengers until Byrne undid him). I cringe that every reboot has to play up Chameleon Boy as this wide eyed innocent and background character. I agree that Crisis eliminating Superboy just sent things on the wrong path. Valor the series (anyone remember Babbage, his A.I.?), retconning Time Trapper, all of that just to fix what should not have been broken. :P Last note, the 5 years later arc started out strong, but fell apart quickly. I liked the world they established (KENT SHAKESPEARE RULED!), but sigh, nothing ever lasts with the Legion. The Levitz return and retcon was not the same magic.

Firstly, The CW's Series take on Starfinger was Godly... XD

Marvel is xmen for me. LSH is Dc for me. You guys spoke of universo... is this villain the same villain in the 4 part Universo project? The rich history you guys conversed blew mind! Again a wonderful topic. Thanks as well for illuminating for me Shooter's brilliance making LSH as a teen/young man. Be safe. Mabuhay!

Name aside, there's something about Joe's voice and speech mannerism that always makes me think of Adam Corolla!

DC keeps screwing up the "Legion Of Superheroes." The first screw up was ignoring the pocket universe solution John Byrne created to explain the Legion. It was revealed that the Legion never went to the real past of the DC universe to meet Superboy. Instead they went to a pocket universe that had a Superboy. This Superboy was the one that went to the 30th century. This preserved the Legion's history post-crisis. Pretty quickly they threw this out so that it was Valor (Mon-el) who the Legion went back in time to recruit into the team. Superboy did not exist. The second DC screw up towards the Legion was rebooting the post-Zero Hour Legion. During the mini-series Zero - Hour, the "Five Years Later" adult Legion merged their bodies with the teenage clone Legionnaires. The universe ended and was reborn. Now DC retold Legion continuity in two comics: "Legion Of Superheroes" and Legionnaires." Beginning with the zero issues of these comics Legion stories and history were told from the beginning. The previous thirty years never happened. The post Zero-Hour legion lasted until about 2004 when it was rebooted again. DC threw out these two great solutions to any continuity problems the Legion had in relation to the rest of the DC universe.

"And he [Jim Shooter] only did it with mild help from Christos Gage, from what I understand." Hey-oh!!!!!!

Bendis and Sook’s run is looking forward. Read the outline Bendis prepared for Sook about “looking forward, because looking backwards is death...” People try to say the past version are better because they did the opposite. But if you go back and look at the old issues there are tons of examples of tons of standing around and talking... This is the first truly original take since the inception of the concept of the Legion.

A great discussion of the LSH!

One of my FAVORITES as evidenced by my screen name, one of The Legion's most powerful villains! Don't forget The IMPERIAL GUARD who fought The X-Men were thinly disguised Legionaires! JIM SHOOTER NOTE- After arriving at Marvel, Shooter wrote DAREDEVIL and wrote about 30 issues of THE AVENGERS!!

I use to like the Legion of Superheroes as a kid, mainly because they use to give me a huge X-Men vibe, but in DC comics, which I loved.

My dad was a Legion fan as a kid and told me about the series. When we got older we started a project to buy every main-line Legion comic (Which is surprisingly affordable compared to the cost of other comics back issues). I am now the proud owner of every major Legion issue from 1958 to 1989. Stopped there because the 5 years later comics were garbage and I wanted to remember the Legion when they were great. Actually Legionaires wasn't terrible so I might go back and pick up those at a later time.

Do more of these please.

I truly love the 5YL period. I think for all it's "Grim & Gritty" trappings I find it to be quite inspirational with the "Getting the Band back together" and showing the hope the Legion can bring. Having said that, I think of it as a long "ElseWorlds" story and think with Zero Hour they should've just done what they eventually did with the retroboot. I bought the Omni and recommend you both get it too!(I selfishly want you to read it and do a retrospective!). The Zero Hour Legion started nicely but I tuned in and out until the DnA run, which I enjoyed a lot(I agree with Joe C, you really should read Lost AND Worlds together). Didnt like the threeboot at all and am only still getting the current series because I committed to a year.

Always loved the LSH. I jumped onboard with the Great Darkness Saga up to the Legion of 3 Worlds. I loved catching up on previous stuff with back-issues from the 70s and those old small thick digest books with all the old 60s stories in them. The more recent stuff...not so much into, unfortunately.

I actually started reading Legion of Super-heroes a couple years ago just to understand why it was a big deal why they were coming back & ended up loving the pathos, & characters provided. It was essentially the X-men but had a more justified reason on not interacting with the larger DCU. My favorite version of the team is the Reboot version (the 1994 version to be accurate).

Excellent, love the deep dive, into a series i kept seeing at the second hand stores till i decided to pick up a few issues of the levitz/Giffen run, did not regret and went back for more.

My first exposure to the Legion was issue 1 of Vol 4. What some call the dreaded "Five Years Later" time jump. I was first seeing these (ex) legionnaires as Rokk, Salu, Reep, and Jo and only by careful reading was able to 'detective out' who they used to be. And while not a popular time period, it's still my favorite era of the Legion.

Perch and Joe, you've inspired me - I just scored all three Silver Age Omnibus volumes in a very good deal on eBay. All will, needless to say, be on my 2021 reading list!

Great topic! Thanks for doing this! Wonderful historical perspective and inside info. Love the Legion and would love to see them returned to glory.

I don't have time to watch it all right now, but this is exactly what I'm looking for on KZfaq. An in depth look at the Legion. Thank you!

The early Legion stories were Weisinger's babies...so they were closely tied to the Superman titles.

Great video, I love the Legion! That Jim Shooter trivia is one of my favorite nuggets.

Man every month ready to get my copy of the legion loved the battles with fatal five and the epic story of the stalag

Long Live the Legion!

The Legion has always been my favorite super hero group. Despite the lame depictions on Supergirl, I would like to see a well written series or movie based on those characters.

Cockrum's Shi'Ar Imperial Guard is a character for character homage to the LSH, of that era.

Really enjoyed this retrospective Perch. One of your best ones. I remember when the Legion was fun, and it kept things moving. Wish Levitz still had control of the franchise. But with all the revisionism, it's too confusing, and I don't think what Bendis has done, has helped. Wish they could have revamped the Legion ANOTHER 1000 years into the future, and seen what happened with the Legion continuing on, and with the Legions' descendants. Now, that would have been introducing. Do think the Superboy death i the mid eighties was a high point, and incredibly moving story, but I didn't agree with Byrne's rewrite.

Otto Binder and Edmund Hamilton were both Golden Age SF writers, mainstays of the pulps.

Golly, I wish I had been invited to talk about this topic. The Legion is, after all, kinda my jam. In fact, for my own channel I’ve been working on a Legion of Super-Reboots series, inspired by Perch's similar series on the many Avengers reboots and relaunches. And, in that sense, even the first Legion story in Adventure #247 was a reboot, as it had at least three and maybe four precursor tales, three of them for sure written by Otto Binder.

Still my second favorite team comic…..my favorite was all star squadron

Good overview. For some reason, I've never stayed on a Legion book as a reader for too long, but I like the concept behind it.

Interesting discussion of the Legion. I'd never read them back in the day, but that's okay as there's a ton of that stuff to read now.

The only part of the Bendis 2019/2020 run is Ryan Sook's awesome redesigns. I love seeing alien characters looking more alien and futuristic. The actual story is completely awful. Not only does no one on the team have any chemistry or even really a desire to work together at all, but Bendis has no concept of continuity. Even with just a year-long run, he retconed his own title like 3 or 4 times. Mon-El went from being a Daxamite to being Jon Kent's descendent; Invisible Kid was Lyle Norg, but then a few issues later he was Jacque Foccart. Bendis completely butchered the Legion.

LONG LIVE THE LEGION!!!

Teen Titans fans think they have it bad since the New52, they don't know how bad us Legion fans went through since the aftermath of Crisis On Infinite Earths screwed up their timeline, which in an effect hurt the sales of what was one of DC's bestselling titles even when DC were being dominated by MARVEL during the 60s and 70s.

Nightcrawler was originally supposed to be a legions character!

I agree a lot with what you guys are saying . But I actually like the waid legion run. It's not his best work however I think it's a good entry point for legion. I also think legion of 3 worlds is really good.

Our LSH group on Facebook is the largest Legion group in existence. Jim Shooter was a member of Interlac' as was Paul Levitz' Mark Waid and the Bierbaums. If you love the Legion' you'll love our group.

The death of Karate Kid was a traumatizing moment in my childhood. lol

i used to be a huge legion fan but then after the adult lgion they rebooted the book in rapid succession, and i judst said i just cant go up that retelling of the legion origin hill yet again. they had a legion cartoon and it was pretty good. the great darkness saga i would love to get that in a dc deluxe edition. and ppl dont understand that the great darkness saga was up there with the judas contract, and the dark phoenix saga . and the art was held up there with george perez and john byrne at the time. i liked the adult legion run but omni is huge you just cant pick it up and read it you have to prop it up on something. oh also the legion really embrasses the barberella sci fi costume aesthetic in the late 60s early 70s. you got some far out looks. good vid gents.

I loved them as well

Gotta love those names 🤯

The Legion of Super-Heroes is one of my favorite franchises, but DC keeps treating it like garbage. Bendis needs to go; his run is almost as bad as Mark Waid's was. I wish DC would have let Hickman take over.

Awesome conversation, LLtL

In the late 90's I had to sell my X-Men to pay bills. I picked up LSH around 2000 with Abnett/Lanning. Now between Omnibuses, Archives, spin-offs and floppies from The number 259 to today, I have everything. And it's waaaaay cheaper than X-Men.

Love this

“I think Legion is straightforward, all things considered.” Bro, you have read too many comics.

LoSH. One of my all time favorites, at 6 my grand father have me a bunch of ils comics (he got them so kids would stay quiet in his barber shop) I remember in the begining the original 3 and others had a lot of Pink, purple in their costume wich except for Magnus robot fighter , no one had .They had L S pets lol, LSubs, even a LofRejects. It was young and i guess for the young mostly. But some stories could compete with JLA. They had so many heroes that THEY could send out the perfect members To fight bad bad people. Superboy and Mon El des interesting as they were equal but poor Mon El des alergic To lead. Ultra Boy was one my faves cause he was like Superboy,Mon El but only one power at a time, this made him cool cause he had To think before doing. Compared to others they had a lot of girls LOL some had really weird powers like Boncing Boy. Yep a précurseur To X men and until X men came back from that island with new members my faverite. Thanks guys, just loved the LSH. ( not all reboots tho)

I miss DC Archives and Marvel Masterworks. I was lucky to get the Legion set at a decent price. Good quality hardcover reprints of Golden and Silver Age classics. When they were cancelled we missed Captain Comet, Green Arrow, Martian Manhunter, Superboy,, Space Ranger, Mark Merlin, Blackhawk, , Tommy Tomorrow. and more Aquaman, Challengers, Golden Age Flash, Green Lantern, "Shazam" and JSA All Stars. Just a collection of non-hero Strange Adventures and Mystery in Space would have been nice, and westerns like Tomahawk, Johnny Thunder and Trigger Twins.

The Legion were one of my favorite comics. I love them with Superboy (not Supergirl). I would put them above X-men and Teen titans.

You missed an important fact. Legion was perhaps the first DC comic to really engage with readers. Readers could write in and select the new leader of the group or suggest new characters. Many Applicant, Substitute and even Legion members came about this way. Engagement just as Stan and Marvel engaged with their audience. And was the Legion the first comic-book to ever kill off major characters (Lightning Lad and then later Triplicate Girl and Ferro Lad).

Isn’t amazing that Jim shooter started writing for legion of super heroes as little kid? Yet adults now days can’t even write as good as a teenage shooter.

Can't believe you skipped over that period of Dave Cockrum and Mike Grell in the video! That's one of the Legion's best eras, at least visually. Was my favorite as a kid in the 70s.

every month as a boy I got a superbly and the legion of super heroes, tracing mike grell's work until I learned to draw, and something else, like avengers or justice league. wanted to ask if there's a reason the great covers we see during your talk skipped the mike grell period or am I wrong?

The Legion of Super Villains were established in "Adult Legion" stories in Superman and Action. Then when they appeared in their own origin story, it was a "whoa" moment for sure. Funny thing, I've reread that particular story "The Colossal Failure/School for Super-Villains" a good dozen times and just realized today that the whole premise of it was flawed. The bad guys extort Colossal Boy to get information on Legion training procedures when they already had, in Nemesis Kid, someone who had been through the process himself.