Hey Wheelies! I try to keep a positive outlook for this "boogieman" of the Wheel of Time series. I'm not quite sure if that's the way I came across though.

Frankly, it won't be nearly as bad as people make it out. As a stand-alone book, it wouldn't be objectively great, but as a part of the series there are some good moments and it adds depth. I think the main problem with the book is simply the lack of a major major action sequence. I'm interested to see what you think when you're done.

I mentioned earlier that when I first read this I thought RJ didn't know how to end the series. Later I found out RJ had left over 3 million words of notes and written chapters to help get whoever took over going, so the man definitely had a vision and knew what he wanted.

I'd never consider book 7 a slog. I remember it being pretty good actually. It holds a place in my heart because just before 7 was released was the first time I read through the series. It was the first book of the series I had to wait for, and that I purchased in hardcover. As for "the slog"... I didn't think it was THAT bad, the Shaido story and Elayne's succession arc went on far longer that I would have liked for sure.

I must be one of the rare few who didn't feel any "slog" storywise. The only type of slog I felt was the f'n WAIT for the next book! Have fun at Jordancon✌😎

Oh you're gonna love these next Elayne chapters.....

After reading this book I wonder how did the Aes Sedai last 3000 years.

On the other hand Knife of Dreams is my favourite book in the series. One of the chapters "The Golden Crane" is on my phone in audiobook form just for me to listen from time to time. Ps. Ohh Elayne is terrible but she has a brother...man she's my favourite character in compare to her brother. ;-)

I never felt a "slog" while reading the books other than the time spent waiting for the next book to be released. I think everyone's problem with this book in particular, is, this book is basically ALL build up....the calm before the storm, with no pay off at the end, because basically Knife of Dreams is the storm. It just explodes with pay offs. So, I don't think Knife of Dreams would be as good without the build up of this book. I hope you enjoy it as much as possible. It can't be any worse than what you have heard.

I was trying to figure out why I didn't consider book 10 as part of the Slog so I read a refresher. I liked reading the political intrigue.

On the bright side KoD is amazing! The prologue grabs you immediately and I didn’t want to put the book down at all, you can tell RJ hit his stride again after he wrapped up CoT. I’m on TGS now and I’m loving what Brando has done, you can tell he was really really into writing these books.

Look at it like this...you've been climbing a mountain, you can see top, but it's the steepest climb yet. After this struggle to the top it will be quick-steps and slides, back down the other side. You can do it. Take a moment and look back at how far you've already climbed. Yes the climb ahead is steep, but truly not that far.

I feel like I found your channel at exactly the right time! I got to binge through your other reviews over the past few days and they have been a lot of fun to watch. One more info-dump book and then the story kicks off. I can't wait to see your reactions to certain events! I can't wait to see your frustration at others, to be honest. Your final, overall series review is going to be so much fun to watch and I can't wait!

Just found you yesterday, but loving the WoT videos! Yes, CoT is a lot of setup for the endgame, but there's a lot of character development there. The rest of the series after this makes it all worth it. I just finished my tenth read of the series. I hope you can squeeze in New Spring, too, because you'll learn a lot more about some of your favorite characters. This year will be my first JordanCon. I look forward to meeting you there!

I know Tha t you've heard this again and again, but I'm going to say it once more, the so called "slog" bets to be less and less of an issue with each successive reread. In my experience, having read the series every couple of years since EotW first released and or the purposes of this point, since roughly book 6 was first released, it has become more enjoyable each time I go over it, to the point where I now barely notice it and thoroughly enjoy it. Even Elaine is a (relative) positive at this stage. As you've said before,it has everything to do with knowing how everything ties together, and the increased cohesion and catching of all the details, foreshadowing, and all of the various characters (and their names!) that comes with it. Looking forward to a future video a few years down the road of your impressions of a reread! Edit: as mentioned in a different post, this would be a great time to read the novella New Spring. It's a great and short read about Moraine and Lan, and you should find that it helps reinvigorates you for this next book.

It’s crazy how Rand changes the world, and the world refused to change.

lol hearing your wishlist for this book... good luck

I have never felt any of the books were a slog, just some of the story lines at times. I'm with you about Morgase, I just could not care less about her sections. But what i did love was getting so much time with these characters, even if that time was not always driving the plot super fast.

Jordan s big idea for the series was exploring how evil is able to flourish among "good" people. His answer was, a lack of unity and cooperation from the men and women of the World. The bad guys are so stupid that Rand is able to bumble is way forward victory after victory. So they display the fulfillment of what happens when people don't work together, despite holding all the cards early on, they regularly fail time and again. Jordan felt that what Rand ultimately is, is a unifying figure, joining together countries and people and factions that had been at war for decades to stand with him against the Dark One. Can he do it? we shall see...

Last 3 books are GREAT

Nae'Blis brought me here BTW.

I think your feeling that the Forsaken are clowns is intended, and I don't just mean because they're a lesson on evil being unable to work together. I feel like RJ had a fondness for setting up his readers only to subvert their expectations hard for added effect. I would argue that this is why TEotW is a little lackluster compared to most of the books following it. It's pretty much a generic fantasy story, generally following the predictable and expected story beats of a classic fantasy story about a nobody becoming the chosen hero who will save the world. Often times in such stories, the world lines up in support of this chosen one, or at least take pity on him and express their gratefulness for the weight he must bear, and that's where it looks like things will be headed by the end of the first book. And because the readers are led to believe this, it's even more impactful when suddenly we see Rand being treated like a monster to be feared or a weapon to be used by most people, when we see so many people who should be supporting him trying to control him, because that's something that real humans would most likely do in that scenario. Back to the forsaken though. As you've noted, they've not been portrayed in the best light so far. We've been shown a constant stream of backbiting and incompetence from them. But pay careful attention, and you may notice that there are clearly things going on in the background that readers haven't been made privy to just yet. RJ is setting the readers up again, making the forsaken look like fools who shouldn't stand a chance, just so that it's all the more impactful when we're clued in to what they've really been up to.

All I will say is pay close attention to Mat in this book, if you have to frame this book as anything it would be character development and growth. This is personally one of my favorite books in the series, And I have a very hard time having this argument with people.

Ah the one that made the slog the slog for so many people, still a good book imo, the good news is this is a turning point for the series. So big change at the end of the last one, what do you see the consequences of this to be? Where do you think its going? As for the forsaken they are less useless then you think, they just play the long game, also its hard to take someone out when reality itself bends fate to protect them :) quite the plot device that lol.

Before you move on to Brandon Sanderson's books within tWoT universe I'd be interested to hear your thoughts ( perhaps in a video ) of how you regard the series up to that point. I still vividly remember the angst & frustration of many readers when Robert Jordan sadly passed away ; so many were hugely disappointed the series might never be completed, and some were very resentful with the way the story was allowed to stagnate blaming the publisher/author for electing to milk the franchise. It caused a paradigm shift in the way readers considered epic fantasy, with many rather vocally pronouncing they'd never read an incomplete series again.

I just caught up with your entire WoT journey today, I'm super excited to see how you react to the upcoming books - especially Knife of Dreams, I feel like a lot of arcs either get resolved or shaken up in it and it has two of my favorite scenes in it (one about Mat, one for Nynaeve/Lan) I also saw your poll video about 2021 - I'm doing my own Malazan reread right now, so I'll definitely be sticking around for that. When's the poll for 2022 coming out? :P I'd definitely +1 an Ender's Saga read, though that's something that I sometimes hesitate to recommend as a whole because there are a lot of different tones/themes in different parts of the series. And if I can propose another super early entry, Banks's Culture series is one of my favorites which seems pretty popular Also, you mentioned Dune as one of your favorites a couple of times (just the first or the entire series? I feel like the first was definitely amazing but the later ones felt a bit more off the deep end). Any plans to make a video about that? I'd be interested in hearing about why it's your favorite, what you like about it so much.

I honestly felt for me the slog was much worse then people were letting on. I knew it existed and was bracing for it. I even ended up liking Path of Daggers quite a bit. But man Winters Heart was torture. Every chapter was so slow and in the vast majority of them no story progress was made at all. I would be okay with that but there wasn't really any interesting character building moments either.

This book took me the longest time to finish, started in March 2021,finished in September 2021

Haha, it's kinda sweet you still think the negative warnings of CoT might be overblown... 😁

Apologies if someone else already mentioned it, but I think even Robert Jordan said in retrospect this was his worst book. Honestly I can't even remember what happens here except that like someone said in a previous comment people are standing around in the snow staring at each other haha!

Yep, this was the book where I dropped the series, and hearing your wishlist it's coming back why. 😂😅

Mike, loving your reviews so far. As you know, those of us who finished the series and loved it enjoy watching a noob experience it for the first time. I’ve watched all your WoT vids and love re-experiencing the series with your fresh eyes. I can remember feeling so many of your enthusiasms and frustrations! I look forward to the rest of your work. The rest of this long post will be my take on the women in WoT and how a male reader may view them on first read. I think you may be too hard on them (and in some ways too hard on the men in the series for taking shit from the women). As a white hetero dude, I had a lot of the same reactions you have on first read re: so many of the female characters, who come across as unnecessarily petty, whiny, or haughty. I dreaded or dismissed them. But having read and re-read the series several times now, I’ve come to appreciate Jordan’s vision to have set up a gender role reversal which we (male readers) may have a hard time reconciling. I also realize how big a role the women play by the end (no spoilers). With the setup of a taint on Saidin, this Third Age Randland features women in positions of power more than men, from the Amyrlin Seat to the various nations with queens (including the entire Seanchan Empire) to women taking all of the roles as physicians (wisdoms, wise women, etc.) to so many cultures where women are in charge day to day (Aiel women and marriage, Ogier women and marriage, Ebou Dar women and marriage, Far Madding women and commerce, etc.). Yes, there are men in positions of power, but at best it’s 50/50 among the “muggles,” and 100% women for the “wizards.” It would be hard to argue against the idea that in this world, women are the dominant gender. With this power dynamic reversal, women also have societally assumed the tropes that we usually associate with (and often subconsciously excuse) men in our modern society of having: a sense of entitlement, a lack of respect for the opposite gender’s collective intelligence, and regular denigration of the other gender. As you have pointed out, the women in WoT rape, publically criticize and shame, and generally pander to men, considering them dummies who think with the hair on their chests. A man is good for carrying something heavy or for a good time in bed, but for real world decisions, many of the characters would defer to a smart, powerful woman. Aes Sedai may be feared, but most people respect their knowledge and power. In our world, men ignore women’s opinions, slut shame them, sexually harass them, and mansplain routinely. Notice how, on average, these flaws are assumed by the women in RJ’s world. And many of the victims are men. Rand is verbally and physically abused by just about every woman except Min, and for the most part only men can commiserate with him or build him up. Mat’s contributions are ignored by the Super Girls, and he’s a rape victim. Perrin is the victim of domestic violence at Faile’s hands. Even Lan has to swallow surprisingly bitter pills courtesy of Moiraine early in the series. You ask, “How can a man in a position of power be respected?!” Exactly! I think that’s what RJ wants you to ask. I suspect he wanted us to realize the irony in his reversal of societal gender norms. It’s easy for a man reading the books to be put off by all this. I suppose women may be put off by it too, but I know a lot of female readers who expressly love that Nynaeve can physically bully Cenn Buie or anyone else, that Elayne can talk down to Mat, or that Egwene can tell Rand to go to hell for assuming she’s “his” and that she shouldn’t go off traipsing to Tar Valon to be Aes Sedai. They love seeing Aviendha be strong enough to rebuke Rand for his idiocy about her culture, seeing Morgase not taking shit from Tallanvor who’s always trying to save her, and having the Super Girls blow off and not appreciate Mat’s help, because princesses can save themselves too. They read about Aes Sedai (priests) and their leader the Amyrlin Seat (Pope) in Tar Valon (The Vatican) who have no care in the world for men (women) and rejoice that finally, women are on top. I think it’s okay for a modern reader who’s tired of men being the default gender of power to read it and say, “It’s about damn time men aren’t the ones ruling the world.” Men in Randland are getting a dose of their own medicine (if they’re inheriting the sins of us men of our world, the First Age). I see it as RJ’s statement on how absolute power corrupts, which you reference once in a different context. In Randland, women rule the world. Women take men for granted and treat them like crap, and no one thinks it’s weird. The men generally grow up expecting it, developing an inferiority complex, and even falling victim to Stockholm syndrome. It’s super weird to you and me though, and it rubs us the wrong way. It should make us re-examine why we feel that way about it. Do we have implicit bias and judge the female characters too harshly because of our societal normal biases? As I hear you criticize the potentially flawed women (Elayne, Egwene, Morgase, Sevanna), consider how much you would excuse in each of them were they men. If these are societally taught/learned personality flaws, do they not deserve a pass on some of their misbehavior? And similarly, if Mat were Matilda, a woman in 16th century Europe, how would you expect the situation to have gone over being raped by a king? If she weren’t “wearing such a short skirt,” if she hadn’t “put herself in that situation,” maybe she wouldn’t have been raped, no? I see the Super Girls victim blaming the same way modern men would do to a rape victim today. RJ didn’t pull this off perfectly. Many of the gender norms we have exist in his fantasy world too, as men do their fair share of belittling women too, but I commend him for trying. I think this is a big part of the series’ appeal to both (all) genders. Just my two cents to possibly help you appreciate the female characters on a different level. It’s for you to decide. TLDR: I think RJ was actually a genius in exploring this alternative reality where gender dynamics are reversed. I think it’s easy to overlook on first read but shows he was ahead of his time in his progressive view on gender relations, and if you take notice and give props to this endeavor, you might appreciate the female characters more.

But I really enjoyed Crossroad of Twilight then POD

I’m ready, let it rip.

After the 'slog' the final 4 books are amazing because your expectations are at rock bottom.

i hear your wish list. i am laughing so hard ^_^

I don't think the Slog exists for new readers as much as it does for re-readers. I can see why people call it a slog, but I've never felt it was that way. Anyway, just wait 'til you get to the part where the wolves start channeling! No, I'm just kidding. They just learn to talk.

Tldr: shaido are still around to increase chaos for fulfillment of prophecy? I ask myself why the Shaido stay so relevant in the series even after being thoroughly beaten many times like you said. My positive optimistic spin is this. The prophesy is that the dragon will break the world again even as he saves it. He has brought chaos everywhere. My guess is Jordan possibly wanted there to be thousands of loose ends flailing about to add to the chaos. The shaido are such. The seanchan, masemas people, even the forsaken have struggled to unite and sow more chaos due to different takes on how to deal with rand (and their own selfish desires of course to lead the pack. I'd say infighting is their greatest weakness). Such is the effect of the dragon.... But, doesn't mean it couldn't have been done in have the pages.

AHAHAHA I'm at the same point as you in the series, glad I found the channel so I have someone to suffer with (maybe I'm cheating though cuz I'm listening to the audiobook lmao). Interestingly enough though, I've found that in the slog when I'm listening to the audiobooks I never get a sense of begining-middle-end. It feels like it's all part of one massive boring sequence of political events while the world reshuffles and prepares for the final books

Please dont throw the book😂

Good wishlist, truly. But wrong book for getting any of them.

Best part of the book, the end :P (no, really... it ends well)

But late to the videos but the bit regarding Perrin around 7.00 is 90% of the "slog" for me. Rand has times he sits around far too long and does nothing, so do the supergirls, and Perrin probably does it for longer than all combined. JUST DO SOMETHING PERRIN!

Wish in one hand, shit in the other. Hahahahaha!!!

I never felt any of the books were a slog in fact the last books (9-13) I spend about 1-2 days reading them because I was just so interested with the story. But I wonder if I did a reread of the entire series maybe I would find it a "slog" then. I finished the series in Summer 2018 and haven't really felt like starting all over again.

Yeaaaah... I took a break reading from WoT for about half a year because book six/seven onwards was such a slog (for me). I’ve finally came back and finished book 10 recently, starting book 11 and it’s 100% better. Holy crap... I’m just begging for this story to end.

I loved them except crossroads

Tbh TPoD fights CoT for the bottom place in books rankings for the series though personally I felt that CoT wasn't half as bad as TPoD was.

I tried to like CoT despite all the talk surrounding it but it simply doesn't deliver. You know the build up in other books that ends a little after the halfway point? Yeah that's this whole book. By the end of it you're left with basically no major plot points. Knife of Dreams however kicks off with what SHOULD have ended CoT

Mike I'm curious what is your hatred for Egwene? Why do you hate her so much ? Also why Elaine? and where would you rank Rand's women from first to distant third ? Also Nae'Blis did this and Daniel green but what changes would you like the live action series to make ? If you're looking for a reason to not like Cadsuane or a justification as to why she is there, well prepare to be disappointed...

Crossroads of Twilight makes me want to invest my time reading other series I'm more confident I'll enjoy all the way through.

Toughest one in the series

Just now starting this.. I’m shocked that it’s 18 minutes long lol

Sometimes I'm yelling at you to pay attention. There are easter eggs scattered throughout that accumulate in the end.

if you hate tylin you'll love book 10

I would like a ticket for the Elayne hate train! I only briefly liked her when they introduced her in #1/2 and have grown to hate her more and more with each new POV chapter 🤬

Probably the worst book to have a wishlist lol