Glad you are enjoying it. Long term equipment reviews is something we will be working on a lot in the coming weeks, I'll try and get some close up shots in to these.

@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing Guessing Thokks since many of your members seem to use them…? I have to assume the QC issues and weak backplate were overblown by the community, but I’d love to hear your take on all that.

We have almost 30 pairs of the Thokk gloves in our clubs and some of us are 300-400 sparring bouts into using them. The backplate issue was fixed very early on, just before our order shipped, and so we have the new version which hasn't broken any. QC has been excellent and they are by far the best five finger HEMA gloves we have ever seen. Full review coming soon

@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing that’s great to hear! I look forward to the review :)

I love mixed weapon training being on either side of being over powered or making best with what you have.

Did you see those two wrist strikes? Itto school. 100%.

The grapple seemed interesting but risky. The katana user got what looked like a stab to the collarbone of the saber user but received a slash at the waist level,a killing blow for a probably non lethal injury but still seems risky. Mind sharing any thoughts on grappling in katana combat?

@@elchjol2777 under normal circumstances, the katana would've been dropped and a wakizashi if not a tanto would've been drawn. The blade is shorter, faster, easier to get into the opponent's circle of defense when at bad breath distances like that and it would've left his offhand free to grab the wrist of his opponent to prevent that cut to the abdomen he received. And I wouldn't discount the lethality of that abdomen wound-in the days of dueling, before fencers started disinfecting their blades before settling the matter of transgression, a 2" deep cut was said to be a death sentence. It would've been weeks (if not a month) of sepsis, agony and a putrid wound before blood poisoning finally did you in!

@@nickaschenbecker9882 Oh so a delayed mutual kill,thanks for the info

Shame you can't say the same about their use of sabers, which is even more sad when you consider this isn't a Japanese martial arts club but a hema club. If they wanted to show the saber properly the guy with the saber should also be using either a dagger or buckler in his off hand. Then you'd really see how effective sabers are. As is though they're just putting out misinformation cause this isn't what a duel between a saber user and a katana user would look like.

The medium guard is used so much for katana because of the two handed grip, is suits it most in terms of body mechanics, but it is more than that. The two handed grip's advantage is in it's leverage, allowing extremely fast twtich responses. This makes it very dangerous for the sabre to go near that area as it is where the sabre will mostly likely get bound up. This is the same in rapier vs longsword for example. It's also a little hard for the type of sabre used here to exploit that way due to its immsense forward mass, it just can't do those quick snipes at a guard position very well at all.

@Liminal as well as what school the wielder studied. I'd like to see a Jigen Ryu practitioner in dragonfly stance against a Western sabre.

Katanas were more an ornamental sword than a fencing one. The tsuba is a poor excuse for a handguard because unlike with sabers, the idea was that the katana is a weapon of last resort, so if you're forced to use it, you're probably going against spears, halberds or heavy blades, in which case a handguard wouldn' make much of a difference. It's the same reason you're not gonna put a handguard on a knife. Sabers on the other hand were very practical swords, so much so that they were adopted as swords of choice by many countries up to WW2. If you run out of lances (hussars usually carried up to 3 and could resupply during the fallback manouvers), then you just switch to your saber and are still going to do serious damage. The blade is heavy enough to be able to cleave and bludgeon light armor but well balanced and agile enough for one handing. So basically weapon that expects to be used - handguard, Weapon that's a last resort - no handguard.

@@mrsmartypants4541 Not ornamental, unobtrusive which is in line with many cavalry swords like the Cossack sabers and Chinese sabers used in similar periods. They all lack handguards or large crossguards because often the rider is armored. The samurai was firing his bow a majority of the time from horseback, then engaging with his lance or naginata on the battlefield. Meanwhile later European sabers are being used during the era of pike and shot by dedicated cavalry both light and heavy who are being ordered to attack at specific gaps or moments in the battle. In that case their sabers are generally their primary weapons so the handguards make sense. They aren't juggling a huge bow or they've discarded their lances.

Even sabre wielder arms will also be detached real quick if there were no gauntlet, it doesn't only apply to katana, it is always European soldiers who wear gauntlet, or else they will be handicapped real quick

Yeah but it's a very flawed fight, I mean why is the saber user not also equipped with either a buckler or dagger? This isn't going to do much to show what a katana can do against a saber user if you're not going let the saber user use the saber to its full advantage.

​@@davidcraft4644I do not believe that napoleonic wars era british cavalrymen and officers were issued bucklers.

@@davidcraft4644 Cavalry sabers were not historically used with buckler or dagger!

Honestly, I'd say the Katana is definitely more nimble. This sabre is not that lighter compared to the Katana, and has a lot of authority in the cut. This is a cavalry sabre after all, and it doesn't have that much of point control. I don't know which sabres you are experienced with, but this one is a beast to wield and doesn't favor minimalist movements.

​@@18ps3anos He could be talking about a polish karabela. Those are as fast as light.

In the early days of exploration-mid to late 1540s-Portuguese merchant marines would dock in Yokohama harbor to trade wares. Because these were sailors and were in a foreign place they didn't really understand they'd get drunk and start fights. The so-called "black carracks" sword was very popular in Portugal at the time. It soon became apparent that the katana was taught in such a way that it was only good at fighting against other katana. The samurai adapted-toppeigoshirae were invented, kissaki moroha zukuri style blades became popular again-they were absorbing what was useful from seeing these Portuguese merchant marines with their transitional rapiers. The tables turned and, after prolly more than a few sailors got killed for acting a fool, it was ordered the swords stay on the ship when on shore leave. Eventually Japan closed its ports to foreginers, anyway, though. The next time samurai faced foreign swordsmen-when Hideyoshi decided to invade Mainland China and the Korean peninsula in the 1590s-the samurai ran into a different problem altogether. The Korean swordsmen were terrified and no match but Chinese soldiers had lots of guns!

​@@nickaschenbecker9882Source for any of this? I find the claim about the Japanese having a hard time due to ming guns strange, since a big problem (at least for the koreans) was that the japanese were the ones who had a lot of guns.

@@atom8248 John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

​@atom8248 I dunno about China, but Korea was definitely a cannon superpower pre-17th century. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_cannon I think you're right about the "guns" though, hand firearms were much more common in Japan, though it's debated how effective that was during the Imjin War.

No. Saber is superior

it's also a better blade in general but don't let katana fantasy fanboys know or they'll come in screeching

​@@escapetherace1943 better in what way? Blades can vary in many ways

It's annoyingly fast.​@@BarsusDraco

​@@BarsusDraco range for example

If you need extra weapon in the other hand, then your sabre is not good enough 😂😂

Traditional katana vs a kyu-gunto and longsword or katana vs tachi. Or Musashi's two handed sword work vs his one handed sword, or his one handed sword adapted to a dedicated one handed blade.

nice lack of grappling lol

@@efafe4972 I started with judo when I was 15. And I grew up wrestling.

@@y_magaming9798 you didnt mention it

I (Nick) don't have one. I did practice kendo for a while a long time, but really what I am doing here is regularly pouring over old kenjutsu demonstration videos, pulling anything I can find that is interesting and incorporate the techniques. With an experienced framework in lots of European styles that works just fine. I am always working to make my katana work more authentic in form whenever I can spare the time.

@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing As a kenjutsu practitioner I found the arms much too extended. Most moves in the styles I am fluent in (Komagawa Kaishin-ryû, Tenshin-shoden-katori-shintô-ryû and Ogawa-ryû) have the arms much closer to the body except when striking. That makes it harder for a lunge-style weapon to score a kote (wrist) hit and easier to do a sliding parry with the katana. Nonetheless I found this video very edifying, and found a few points to ponder in my own training. Thank you for posting this!

@@LeSerpentBlanc Thanks for this! I came to comment the same. I trained in Bunjinkan (lower stance than most kenjutsu, but similar) and noticed the same things. Using a basic guard with the blade extending outward is asking for trouble. I prefer a high guard, but that comes from my height!

@@Hetiekae I prefer a straight stance with gedan low guard, because I'm still not over my amazement of how quickly you can whip up the blade into a sliding parry or block from that position. Might have to do with my height of 1.85 m, though. I agree that staying in chûdan (and a high extended Langer Ort-flavoured chûdan, at that) is asking for trouble. The fencer in the video is good enough to overcome the limitations of that position, though. I wouldn't be able to pull that off.

Shinden-Mugai-ryu guy here. Yeah most kenjutsu forms I've seen typically keep the arms closer to the body. It also helps keep the opponent from knowing your exact range. Something that I am struggling with in my current italian bolognese studies.

Black Fencer, we have the Sigi as well. I will get a review done of both of them soon.

2 handed swords sacrifice reach and range of motion for strength and fast twitch response. If you could see in the video the sabre guy is following through his motions because it’s difficult to stop his sword and he needs the momentum to strike a 2 handed guard, whereas the katana guy is waiting for him to attack first before counter attacking his slow recovery.

@@veritas4887 John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

For handling and looks, Black Fencer, for durability, Sigi. We have both and much prefer to use the Black Fencer, but the sigi has much thicker edges, and so takes less edge damage and the grip lasts longer (being simple cord rather than the traditional method). I'd rather put up with a little less durability for a much nicer handling sword personally, but others prefer thicker and tougher edges.

@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing Thank you for your answer

Pistol with 20 rds in the offhand maybe wins.

Black Fencer.

Lo dije muchas veces, en un duelo como este con dos espadas distintias, cada una con ventajas y desventajas, va a ganar el espadachin mas habilidoso. Al ambas armas tener ventajas y desventajas contra la otra, va a ganar el que sepa aprovechar mejor su arma. Aunque si me preguntas a mi, la mejor espada en una situacion de 1vs1 sin armadura es la espada ropera.

They are called hangers or cutlasses, depending if it is for the army or for the navy...

That's a tough one. Sport sabre has developed to an incredibly high level of skill within its ruleset and in terms of athleticism. If you wanted to take something from the history of sabre I would say it's focus in defensive distance work. Chasing the scoring point is a problem we encoutner all the time in HEMA, and is of course the object of a point scoring system, but the absolutely most important aspect of it as a weapon should be defence. This is also complicated further by the lack of below the waist target in sport sabre which does encourage a lot more distance covered. If sport sabre could take anything from military sabre I would say it;s defensive qualities to use as training games and exercises. The maintaining of distance, the leg slips, not taking too big a risk consideirng what might land on you in riposte or double. It's a tough one though, as the target zones, purpose, training tools and ground fought on change so many factors make the difference between the two huge. I have been meaning to work more with sport sabres in a HEMA enviroment as a test of how useful they could be or not, as I have not used them in a long time. I'll make a load of videos on this in the coming months and that might be useful too.

@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing Thanks! I would be happy to provide input on this subject if you like. It is a huge difference but I think where historical concepts can appear are in second intention attacks and distance traps to control the tempo of the game in favor of more practical techniques (even moulinets from hanging guards if watched closely). I competed in modern tournaments but I favor books on the subject up to the year 1950.

They were often carried together yes, though typically used seperately, especially as the pistol of this sabre era was single shot. The sword was the primary weapon of both officers and cavalrymen in the era of this sword.

76cm, so towards the higher end of the average historical range, they are indeed very short for a sword with a two handed grip.

Keep in mind average Japanese height for men in samurai days hovered just over 5 feet. So not "short" for them. Interesting dynamic to ponder the difference in reach if he had a blade length comparable to his height.

Indeed the Japanese were on average short, but if we look at a typical chart for calculating your ideal blade length - 5 ft 7 in - 5 ft 9 in 2.45 shaku 29 inch 5 ft 9 in - 5 ft 11 in 2.50 shaku 30 inch I (Nick), am 5'7", and would therefore typically use a blade around 29 inch. The sword I am using in this video has a 30" blade, and so is therefore in the typical range for the next height category up. Whereas in Europe I'd expect to use a blade of 34-40" at my height with a two handed sword. Katanas were indeed very short, even in scale to their users. It was a preference of the styles/traditions.

@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing Got it. Thanks for the info!

@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing It's worth noting that other Japanese sword types could be much larger. Japanese soldiers/pirates/bandits were famous for using big two-handed swords in 16th/17th-century China. Even the smaller sidearm version of the Japanese-style swords Cheng Zongyou wrote about was 119cm of total length, which is close to many European longswords.

I am not sure what you are referring to, do you mean the cut angles/numbers?

@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing i mean blade sections. The forte section, the middle section. Sorry, English is not my native language.

The forte would usually be blunt on these. The middle would be sharp. The nature of this fight does bring some actions very close, the shots landed with the middle of the blade came with a powerful swing and would still have been effective. I think the only shot delivered with the forre was followed up with a drawing action, making it into an effective strike.

He is probably a longsword fighter who trained a little in katana. I can see he executes lots of his techniques like a longsword.

The two handed grip comes with advantages and disadvantages. Primarily that the two hand grip leverage makes it very quick to accelerate and decelerate, but it comes at the cost of dexterity and reach. A classic min/max kind of scenario.

@@user-ch9vd4cd3t katanas almost always have short blades like arming sword length. If you med longer its a nodathi. Sory for my speling.

@@martinhg98 That's debatable, actually. Japanese were much shorter on average around the sengoku jidai and into the Edo jidai than Europeans were during the Middle Ages through Renaissance into the Thirty Years War. Today, Japanese men average about 1.70 m, and they are having a hard time finding guys who still fit into historical suits of armour; most of the museum pieces shown at jidai matsuri are now worn by very petite women of 1.50 m or less. If a katana of 70 cm nagasa (blade length) is the correct length for an 1.50 person that means that a person of 1.85 m height would need a katana of 86.5-ish length. Overall length would go up from 1 m to 1.25 or thereabouts if the hilt goes up in size as well (which is debatable depending on the style). We're definitely getting closer to longsword range there.

​@@martinhg98Not at all true, before the edo period katana were often about the size of european longswords. Edo period laws forced everyone to have their swords shortened. At the end of the edo period long swords come back briefly as straight kinno-to in the hands of samurai loyal to the emperor.

Those strategies vary immensely both on what style and culture you are looking at, but also situationally and tactically within a style. There are styles that encourage constant movement, like the Spanish destreza fencing for example, and yet there are contemporary Italian sources that recommend a very static stance and only to move when going to attack or parry. There are strengths and weaknesses to each. Same as maintaining distance to strike the hands, it is a legitmate approach that exists in many styles, but there are also at times huge advantages in closing distance. This is a very broad subject where you will find an extremely broad set of approahces in a single style, let alone comparing many.

Fencing has wrestling. A great many fencing styles have wrestling involved, in fact most of the weapons we practice do.

Don't think the katana is so inferior than saber. I also prefer the saber but in the end in a 1vs1 duel of swordsmen, the most skilled will end up winning, the saber has advantages but it also has disadvantages compared to a sword that is used with two hands like the Katana. For example: The katana weighs the same as many sabers, some are lighter than Katana, but the saber used in the video weighs the same as that katana and the katana when wielded with both hands allows you to make cuts at greater speed and with more force, but loses range because the saber user can take advantage of the entire extension of his arm to execute a thrust.

As the katana user here I have signficiantly more experience than the other as I am his instructor with decades more experience. However, he is still a competent fencer and you can see he gets some good blows in and causes me lots of problems. Skill is the overall most important factor, but certain weapons do have advantages and disadvantages in different scenarios which can be enough to balance the odds or tip them in ones favour even with a skill disparity. In terms of speed, the katana is a much faster weapon to accelerate and decelerate due to it's two handed grip and the fact that it is roughly the same weight as the sabre here. Also the sabre in use is a front weighted cavalry sabre. But the sabres speed and agility comes in it';s rotations and agility at the wrist.

Because neither of them would be bringing swords to a fight, but guns

Jajajajaja me haz hecho reír.🤪🤪🤪🤪

Yes it would be an advantage, so long as the user had the ability/knowledge to use it well and not compromise their sabre work. In these fights we typically go for realistic and likely scenarios, and the military sabre of the 18th and 19th century was almost never used with anything in the offhand. There are however always a few exceptions and we do use sabres with offhand weapons sometimes.

You know, the second the right dude get his hand on the kodachi the fight became one sided. That too much range (almost twice) for the saber to close gap, mean while the other guy can just keep kiting out of range. I'm not bias or anything, but it's just that longer weapon give an insane advantage though out history

@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing Next time, get someone who does polish sabre...

Jajajajaja las katanas son para dos manos.

@@marcuslazuli-ml5204 Depende del estilo, existe un estilo de esgrima japonesa donde se usa una katana en una mano y un wakizashi en la otra, la espada larga te da alcance y la mas corta te protege el cuerpo, este estilo se llama Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu. Lo que pasa amigo es que la Katana es ligera comparada con otras espadas de dos manos, la Katana que vemos en el video pesa lo mismo que el sable que el otro empuña con una mano.

That is also pretty the most realistic end of such duels

@@BarsusDraco If you want realism, you should know that only some duels were to the death, many duels are to first blood. I mean, the first one to bleed lost, and there are other duels until one can no longer continue. although of course I'm talking about arranged duels, not duels that take place in the middle of a battlefield.

He was not using kenjutsu techniques, but a combination of longsword and sabre techniques.

Because it is very risky to do against the sabre. You don't gain a huge amount of reach and it will still be less than the sabre (76cm blade vs 83cm). As soon as you go one handed with the katana it becomes basically a bad sabre, very short, it can be beaten through, it doesn't have the hand protection and the grip is awkward for one handed work. I might include some attempts at it to the hand another time, but the risk is very high, and if you get it wrong, that cavalry sabre's striking power is immense.

@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing I have noticed that extending the strike so it starts two handed, releases with the back hand holding (gaining another 10 cm..) and follwing the strike back to two handed is really a great move to gain ground against a retreating opponent, and as a first "lounge" into a fast short range two handed exchange

Indeed we use such a move with longswords, but then they have much longer grips and also aren;t as such a reach disadvantage in blade also. It's certainly somethingt that can work, but I'd still be very careful with it, especially as I know my opponent here lvoes timed hits, which is something I am very careful to avoid in this fight.

@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing Thanks! Been great seeing you guys in action. Keep up the great work!

@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing agree on not using one hand. But the arms of your standard guard looks way too extended to be kenjutsu, looks more like kendo (which is more sport than martial art)

The sabre won bro.

And still the saber dominated the world

​@@alfrede.neuman9082I'm pointing out an advantage. I was expecting the sabre would dominate but i wasn't expecting some advantages that the katana does have. It doesn't mean it wins.

@@AstroRayGun Speaking as someone who both regularly spars with swords AND also owns and collects antique examples of both nihonto and sabres, I can personally tell you that IMO, Katana/gunto/nihonto are GROSSLY overrated. They’re extraordinarily heavy, usually very short, have no hand protection, have very poor grips, and are no sharper than a typical sabre. And that’s from someone who currently owns around 7-8 very nice antique examples, and has owned several others. They’re pretty and interesting historically (hence why I have them), but they’re objectively crap weapons. Of the dozens of antique swords I’ve collected over the years, my Japanese stuff would be the LAST to be picked if I actually needed to go pick a fight with someone. They’re stupidly mythologised by anime fanboys who think they’re handcrafted by the gods themselves, and who have no idea that they’re actually fairly shit weapons because they’ve never actually handled one, or if they have, they’ve never handled something better. They only make any sense in the VERY specific context of Japanese combat - Which itself was devoid of ANY input or influence by outside factors or cultures for centuries. QED, the sabre won (which it did) because it’s a VASTLY more useable weapon than the katana, and is a better weapon in every practical sense.

It's not quite so simple with the speed and strength comparison. When it comes to strength the 1796 light cavalry sabre is well known as one of the most brutal cutters in history, easily taking limbs and heads off, much like the katana. In speed its not a direct comparison as they work differently. The two haned grip of the katana gives more leverage in the hands and that means faster acceleration and deceleration, so quick to start and stop. But rhe sabre in it's greater dexterity of grip, by both being single handed and completely uninhibited by extra grip and the body mechanics of two handed usage, is faster at many rotational followup cuts and rapid extreme changes in cutting angles. These circular motions also generate tremendous power. Going back to strength, the katana does have a leverage advantage in the bind, but this is counter by the rapid changes in cutting angles mentioned previously. So it is not at all a simple comparison. Neither sword has a complete speed or strength advantage, but are stronger and faster at different things.

@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing i understand. was just making the observation that came to mind upon initial viewing

As was a common practice, thinking all swords with lower levels of hand protection were always used in protracted postitions is an artefact of viewing through later and more complex hilted systems. Take the cavalry sabre shown for example, it was taught used extended forward guards exclusively for both cavalry and infantry use. Japanese styles used a broad mix of guards, but often used extended forward guards heavily, and in the situation of this video, they are one of the best options.

Yes, although the two handed grip offers more than just the ability to wield a longer blade. Leverage is the key, and the two handed allows rapid acceleration and deceleration, as well as a very strong bind. So that is what the katana gains here, at the expense of dexterity, which is the greatest strength of the sabre.

@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing Precisely. Katana can be lightning quick, especially on counters, when the upper hand acts as a fulcrum

I think its a =

Kendo is a relatively modern sport with very restrictive rules. It is also practiced with shinai, which are extremely light and handle nothing ;ike the original swords. In this regard it is a lot like comparing modern foil and epee sport fencing to rapier and smallsword. Here a steel training sword of accurate weight and handling is used, and without sport rules. Kendo is really very far removed from historical Japanese swordsmanship. If you want a better idea of how Japanese swordsmanship looked then I suggest you check out kenjutsu, of which techniques are drawn upon in this video, though not in solation, as we are predominately a school of European swordsmanship. Lastly, this is a mixed weapon fight, and anyone who has fought against a wide range of weapons will know that a fighter must adapt to the opponent's weapon, and so it will look different to a matched weapon fight.

The kendo kata are probably a better representation of how Edo period japanese swords were used in fights. Here are some Shinkage-ryu guys fighting sundome (non contact) kzfaq.info/get/bejne/a6d8rJadzdjLcYU.html

​@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing A shinai is the same mass as a typical white oak bokuto (500g-700g). There are some exceptional cases like Niten Ichi Ryu which use spatula thin (360g) bokuto since they believe it improves cutting mechanics, or Tennen Rishin Ryu which uses a very heavy one (1800g) for building strength, but these are the exceptions.

The important thing to take from this video presentation is that the katana wielder in the video is not trained in its use. The last time Nick mentioned it, he said it was a comparison of two different weapons, not two different styles of swordsmanship. So the attempt here is one of a western fencer trying to use a katana as if it were any other type of western sword.

Jajajajaja nadie va a bloquear el ataque de la katana sino a esquivar y cortar o dar un estoque.

Kendo is a modern sport using shinai with radically different weight & balance than steel katanas. It would be like asking why 18th century sabre doesn't look like olympic sabre.

It's more to do with the weapon being faced. Most people expect a weapon style to remain the same when moving from a matched weapon fight to a mixed one, but the reality is changes are often essential. Try facing a sabre with a katana and you will see exactly the problem, the sabre can interupt timings with an incredible dexterity and range of angles

Glad you are enjoying it. Though there is no kendo here, this is a mix of some Kenjutsu being added to existing HEMA experience. About the sword length, though that is true, the training katana used here isn't particularly small. If we look at a typical scale chart for katana - 5 ft 7 in - 5 ft 9 in 2.45 shaku 29 inch 5 ft 9 in - 5 ft 11 in 2.50 shaku 30 inch The user in this video is 5'7 and the katana has a 30" blade, and so the sword in this video is a tad long compared to the user. So the katana is close to the extremely small bast**d swords or hand and a half swords, though quite far apart from many of the more typical longswords. This is reflected in the way they are worn too. The katana relaly is a remarkably small sword for one with a two handed grip, even in scale to their user. Not to say the Japanese didn't have larger sword types of course.

Sabers can, in fact, stab. They are fairly front heavy and while flexible, quite capable of stabbing the opponent.

And only using karate-do techniques also!

No es muy efectiva. Ya que tiene una empuñadura larga, incómoda y es más pesada que un sable.