Accept the joy of discarding to hand size

Рет қаралды 140,355

Salubrious Snail

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 480

@danielgosse2129 8 ай бұрын

Good point but have you considered I’m a card goblin. 20 cards in hand makes me feel special.

@L1ndormen 3 ай бұрын

I do the same

@PQuas Ай бұрын

Some games I have 3/4 or more of my deck, so I would be a card dragon

@ssjAnnaPaquin 8 ай бұрын

A wise man once said "if you draw 20 cards and can't win with the best 7 maybe your deck doesn't deserve to win"

@Comandate7 8 ай бұрын

Nah mate, there is no better insurance in commander than blue mana open and 20 cards on hand.

@TOTFAHRER 3 ай бұрын

Why do you have to hurt me like this...

@simonp4832 3 ай бұрын

@@TOTFAHRERthe truth do be hurting sometimes my friend.

@ryuku2 25 күн бұрын

I like that this comment from 7 months ago declared the exact number of cards needed for the new Twenty-toed Toad needs to win.

@chainer1918 6 күн бұрын

I’ve been tuning my deck for 3ish years now and I’m still not guaranteed to draw my wincon or something to tutor it in 20 draws if luck isn’t on my side. It doesn’t matter how strong or tuned your deck is, sometimes the heart of the cards just isn’t on your side

@hanschristopherson8056 9 ай бұрын

The reason people play reliquary tower is they hate discarding and don’t want to agonize over which cards to discard

@magica3526 9 ай бұрын

and honestly that's something worthwhile just for how much it speeds up games

@empty5013 9 ай бұрын

@@magica3526bruh the dude in your pod who has a 15 card hand full of garbage is the reason your games are slow

@RandomHobo 9 ай бұрын

@magica3526 discarding down to hand size makes the game quicker because you're forced to go down to your best 7. I also play alot of graveyard/mill decks, so I might just be built differently ig

@chickenwyngs3646 9 ай бұрын

It's a QoL thing, like running Chromatic Lantern

@xXxcelticwarriorxXx 9 ай бұрын

I play it because I drew 37 cards on my main step and bricked somehow for a win

@phantomsmagicstore 6 ай бұрын

"Equal to the number of cards in your hand" begs to differ. I need every single one.

@wingdinggaster6737 9 ай бұрын

Or a 4th thing: I want to get my grubby little hands on as many cards as possible, and hold them at all once so Jim audibly sighs every time I sift through my hand for a counterspell during our game of commander.

@IC-23 9 ай бұрын

I've only really played Yugioh and the idea of having anything close to hand size by the time you have to discard is kind of surreal.

@BigPapaGanda 9 ай бұрын

You gotta try playing Simic in commander. You draw 30+ cards in a turn AND you have the mana to cast them. You run the tower to make your end step take less time.

@leopardbunny 5 ай бұрын

Commander format games tend to last a lot longer than YuGiOh from what I hear, especially in casual (the vast majority of the format). Being able to play something like Distant Melody, which draws a card for each creature of the same creature type, and not only draw cards in the double digits but potentially deck yourself out from card draw and instantly lose in a *99 card format* (not counting Commander) is not unheard of in token decks. Or I guess Persistent Petitioners decks if you're a weirdo. Card draw is still powerful, but a lot less so than YuGiOh due to playing cards generally either requiring a resource or, in the case of lands, having a one-per-turn restriction. For example, I have a Brudiclad Commander deck, who can turn all of my tokens into copies of a token I control. My favorite bullshit to pull is making my tokens copies of a card called Academy Manufactor, which says if I make a treasure, clue, or food token, I instead create one of each (3 tokens total). A copy of it will see each of those tokens being made by the previous Academy Manufactor and thus make 9 tokens, then the next will see that and make 27, then 81, etc. So with a mere four on the field, Brudiclad can then make those 81 new arbitrary tokens, plus the Myr token he makes, into more Academy Manufactors. This alone would draw you 86 cards off of Distant Melody. Another single treasure and another turn would let Distant Melody deck yourself if you made a deck out of every magic card ever printed, by a wide margin. However, by the time you make that many creatures, you've usually already won the game.

@wickederebus Ай бұрын

@@BigPapaGandathe Merfolk pre con is Simic and doesn't do enough draw.

@wickederebus Ай бұрын

As a fellow Yugioh player, Lightsworn Runic can indeed make me need to Discard to hand size.

@neco9590 8 ай бұрын

"You don't need 5 generic 6 drop creatures in your hand" Poor Ghalta Stampede Tyrant

@poweringdom.1552 9 ай бұрын

That one mono blue player with rhystic study:

@Exile559 8 ай бұрын

Question :..... are you gonna pay the (1)?

@BimdoeDoll 8 ай бұрын

discarding is a upside!

@ecos889 8 ай бұрын

It's more fun when another player has smothering tithe and another player has a Rhystic study and another player plays fractured identity and copies it so everyone other than the rhystic study and tithe player will now be asked in sweet revenge by 3 people do you pay the and an 2? :P

@thebaikalseal7335 8 ай бұрын

That's me, I run tower and thought vessel. 😅

@Nex41354 6 ай бұрын

One mono blue player? Any deck running blue should have a study in it. Not that expense and doesn't have hexproof/ward/phasing... just pop it if you don't like someone running it/gets out of hand. Usually, conversely, for that same reason, is why the study may only net you a couple cards (still amazing). Ik... ik...

@paulbuckley2301 9 ай бұрын

One counter point, if I may: While I agree that most decks that don't have strong draw card themes tend to need this less, you also have to consider other players' effect on your hand size. Others may have group hug strategies that may force you to draw, or worse... the inevitable Cyclonic Rift on your Combat Step with all your mana tapped, leading into dropping a majority of your precious board into the graveyard. I am totally fine with downgrading a basic land's specific mana to a generic colorless just for Rift-insurance.

@rko218932 8 ай бұрын

That is specifically why reliquary tower is in my group hug mathis deck :)

@HomeCookinMTG 8 ай бұрын

I still think it's overall not worth iincluding in 3+ color decks, you have very few slots for colorless lands and there are at least 2-3 other utility lands better than this in every color combination.

@LibertyMonk 6 ай бұрын

@@HomeCookinMTGthere are a dozen better colorless utility lands, and one or two that tap for colors too. Not many that tap for colors, since most color utility lands are trash commons that enter tapped.

@KeganKirby 5 ай бұрын

I agree, but in this case it's very meta dependent. If no one you ever play with plays group hug or cyc rift, then snail's advice is more pertinent. If your meta has lots of those effects however, pop off with the reliquary tower.

@wickederebus Ай бұрын

In 2, 3, and 4 color decks it seems like the tower would pair greatly with Signets that take 1 and make 2 specific colors.

@calebhehl3404 9 ай бұрын

Me running tower, thought vessel, and decanter in Arcades Deck 👀

@MrWhiteKniight 9 ай бұрын

Same 😂

@shivandragon1651 9 ай бұрын

It's jhoria for me

@IsaiahBuchanan175 7 ай бұрын

greedy

@Garwinium 6 ай бұрын

Gotta also run spellbook, 0 mana artifact that gives you no max hand size

@nicmalugin-dm9ju 4 ай бұрын

Well those are both mana rocks and don’t take up a land slot

@dt534 8 ай бұрын

there have been times I purposefully max my hand out so i can discard cards in my black decks lol

@jemm113 3 ай бұрын

Henzie reanimator says “Hi” 😂

@aprofessionalateverything7585 Ай бұрын

I read about a guy who was playing mono red and lost because his opponent skipped playing a land first turn, discarded Iona, Shield of Emeria and reanimated her next turn naming red. Free discard is an underrated mechanic.

@NoTengoIdeaGuey 8 ай бұрын

I have a Locust God deck and ive been legit considering taking out all the default no-max-hand-size additions like RT, Decanter of Endless water etc. There are times when i wind up drawing like 18 cards in one go and I legit hate it. It just gets in the way, makes decision making harder, and sometimes it can actually hinder you (ex. having Anger or Brawn - cards you would actually prefer to discard). There are tons of spells that have "draw two, then shuffle your graveyard into your library" or whatever, just throw a couple things like that to give yourself the option to prevent decking yourself and you're good. People were looking at me crazy when i said i wanted to do this. This is validating.

@LibertyMonk 6 ай бұрын

Yeah, you have 1 turn to use those cards, then you get to keep the best 7. Yeah, it can be tough to lose those cards, but at least you don't have to read all 20 cards in your hand multiple times per turn. And you really dont need all 5 of those lands, you'll draw more or win before you do.

@andrewspears8891 9 ай бұрын

As a Feather player, I very much like to keep my entire hand of the same five cantrips I cast every turn, the other five that protects my board and the rest of my cards that I've been drawing over the last four turns (not my turns of course, everybody else's turns).

@xelic1996 9 ай бұрын

Yeah as a new feather player myself I find the infinite hand size so useful

@ComstarAgent 9 ай бұрын

Cast your cantrips during your endstep, then they’ll return on your opponent’s endstep and you won’t have to discard them

@andrewspears8891 9 ай бұрын

@ComstarAgent I've done that, but I don't like doing that without an abundance of mana and it leaves me pretty vulnerable to removal, and lastly, a large chunk of the cantrips draw a card making it pointless for downsizing my hand.

@DiabloTommaso 9 ай бұрын

So how many 1 mana spells you use on your deck? Feather is mana pip intensive. For example you have 4 mana open. With reliquary tower you can t play all your 1 mana pip spells. Think about it

@andrewspears8891 9 ай бұрын

@@DiabloTommaso 14, some are more conditional. It's more about holding my protective spells ready.

@xefficient1948 9 ай бұрын

Reliquary Tower slides into a position between Mikokoro and Library of Alexandria, where it seems more useful than it actually is. You mostly won't need this, take a Demolition Field instead.

@simanolastname2399 9 ай бұрын

Reliquary Tower is considerably worse than Library. Library is very powerful on early turns, and can often be useful later in the game (especially if wheels are in play) while Reliquary Tower is rarely relevant. There's a reason it's banned/restricted everywhere it would've been legal

@horserage 9 ай бұрын

Or, both.

@LibertyMonk 6 ай бұрын

Tap a land to draw a card is immensely powerful, even with the restriction that you can only do it if you don't vomit your hand onto the table. Meanwhile, having no maximum hand size does nothing bit prevent you from having to grow up, unless your deck is designed to vomit your hand onto the table, but you're not quite ready to do so yet. You're only discarding the cards you're least likely to play anyway. Making eveyone draw a card for 2 and tapping a land is a much worse effect, and can actively ruin you. Reliquary is "harmless" by comparison, so i guess it fits right between "actively harmful (outside of grouphug)" and "wildly powerful" cleanly.

@BrotherAlpha 9 ай бұрын

I've played many, many, MANY people on Arena who play Reliquary Tower and then NEVER draw any cards. You should only play that card if you have cards that care about you have lots of cards in your hand.

@draketheduelist Ай бұрын

Or cards that can get you large amount of cards in one go. This is especially true if Green is your card draw color, or if your card draw is less consistent and passive (Phyrexian Arena, Colossal Majesty) and more big and swingy (Coastal Piracy, Pull From Tomorrow, Distant Melody, Rishkar's Expertise). A well-timed Return of the Wildspeaker can take you from literal nothing to having to pitch 10+ cards at end step. Reliquary Tower lets you keep everything for future turns. For some color combos, especially non-blue ones, keeping cards you otherwise wouldn't be able to basically _is_ card draw, and sometimes you have to take what you can get.

@Queuexdodge 9 ай бұрын

I never run thought vessel or reliquary tower, because not caring about discarding to hand size triggers so many people.

@Leonidous 9 ай бұрын

The best 7 cards out of most hands of 10+ should usually be good enough to not miss the rest of the cards

@horserage 9 ай бұрын

I want more. More rectangles.

@soleo2783 5 ай бұрын

@@horserage I NEED ALL THE RECTANGLES NOT JUST 7 DAMN IT

@Robert-vk7je 6 ай бұрын

I am a graveyard enjoyer and know this truth for a long time. Good to hear someone saying it. :)

@adambutt5137 9 ай бұрын

As someone who got into commander after playing in a more competitive environment, amongst other things many commander players should pay more attention their mana base.

@Interrobang212 9 ай бұрын

So many players play lands that etb tapped, it's kinda nuts. If you're in a two color deck, literally just take basics and learn to Mulligan/ shuffle properly.

@DrewskiTheLegend 9 ай бұрын

I refuse. The spirit of commander dictates that I run 15 lands and my curve starts at 7 cmc. And what the hell is “fixing”? Sounds like cheating to me!

@chickenwyngs3646 9 ай бұрын

@@Interrobang212there are playable tapped lands, I'm not against them entirely. The age of guildgates and Rugged Highlands is over though. Even the scrylands are becoming harder to justify playing.

@RandomHobo 9 ай бұрын

@@chickenwyngs3646 Even the Scry lands can be justified still depending on the deck/budget

@davidhower7095 9 ай бұрын

I made a tapland tribal deck. Every single land in the deck can enter tapped. Its so incredibly dumb but I love never worrying about my colors.

@Xonides 9 ай бұрын

I have Reliquary tower in like two decks. One of which has a tendency to draw half the deck if it manages to storm off the right way. I don’t think I’ve ever had more than 10 cards in hand in a non blue deck unless it was from a windfall trigger

@xxhellspawnedxx 8 ай бұрын

With reactive and toolbox'y decks especially, having all those extra cards is a massive upside, especially if you don't run much recursion. But it's equally true that a bunch of people run 3 or 4 infinite hand size cards, more or less needlessly. It's also a level up moment when you've figured the game out enough that you can intuit what's worth keeping or not, in different situations.

@LibertyMonk 6 ай бұрын

It a reactive toolboxy deck with no proactive side, no tutors, and no recursion, sure it can be useful to not be forced to play things for "no value". But, if you've had nothing to react to yet, you're either playing too cautiously, or you're winning hard enough that you don't need an even bigger hand. Or you'd get a better outcome from a tutoring or recuring utility land instead. Or a proactive land, like one that animates into a creature or something.

@Lightning_Lance 8 ай бұрын

I think you've got a point but it's too simplistic. 1) humans aren't perfect decision makers all the time and we can't see the future. Even when we don't need all the cards, it's often impossible to know which ones will be better to keep. 2) a control deck doesn't have perfect answers to every situation. The more options the have the better, plus you always want to be making land drops. These types of decks would really prefer to have a handsize of 9-10 instead of 7. 3) bounce spells exist. And probably plenty more reasons, those are just the most obvious ones I came up with just now.

@dogehkiindogeborn5339 Ай бұрын

Unless you're already running more utility lands than you should or just a lot of 1cmc and color pip intensive costs Reliquary tower is just nice to have, it's insurance against many bounce or hand reducing effects while allowing you to accumulate resources for future turns if you overdraw, there are 3 other players in the table and sometimes 20 cards after tapping most of your mana to draw them isn't enough to get through their answers but is enough to survive until the next turn and win once all your lands untap. TLDR: It isn't amazing in most decks but it's a cheap and safe to include utility land, it just makes sense to have it in 2/3 color decks

@deadlypandaghost 9 ай бұрын

Unless you are running a 3+ color mana base you can definitely afford some utility lands. The only time reliquary tower has a downside is when you don't have enough of a color symbol and there is no other land available to play. That is unlikely particularly in a deck with enough drawpower for the effect to be relevant. More over extra cards, even ones that are useless at the moment, are a resource. They are free fodder for looting effects, protection from forced discard, make your opponent think you have more options/firepower, and sometimes the game changes enough a few turns later for it to be relevant again.

@Worldly_Pitfall3 8 ай бұрын

I mean I don’t see why you wouldn’t play one in a colourless deck

@jkattack2640 8 ай бұрын

Agree, however I think you are underselling the cost and overstating the benefit. Colorless lands make many opening hands less keepable, no matter how many cards you intend to draw, and I think there's a ton of higher priority utility lands for basically every strategy than a land that let's you win 5% harder when you're already winning

@dansterstuff 8 ай бұрын

Even with a 3 color deck its fine in commander. As long as you dont have a bunch of double mana specific spells you should be fine if the rest of your mana base is good

@LibertyMonk 6 ай бұрын

@@dansterstuffif your entire mana base is good, there are *much* more useful utility lands to run rather than Reliquary Tower. From Field of the Dead to Access Tunnel to Arch of Orazca to Ghost Quarter, and many many more. Reliquary Tower provides so little utility unless your deck is specifically built to need it that a Glimmerpost is more likely to matter, let alone an Inventor's Fair, Urza's Saga, or any land with color identity.

@kalelcox1907 8 ай бұрын

Know you’re not gonna read this , but thanks for the fun times and great videos. Me and my wife loved watching them and laughing at your commentary. So long partner, and may you finally rest.❤

@woodman_1799 9 ай бұрын

You’re right. I should just discard down after I peer into the abyss. Silly me.

@EndOfStates 8 ай бұрын

Why are you playing peer if you’re not winning the turn you cast it?

@HomeCookinMTG 8 ай бұрын

Wow, it's almost like he mentions mass amounts of card draw as an actual reason play the card in the short. This video isn't for the guy who built a nekusar deck and draws 40+ cards every game, this video is for the guy with the 3 color tribal deck who routinely empties their hand but still plays this land for whatever reason.

@jkattack2640 8 ай бұрын

If peer from the abyss resolves you shouldn't be reaching your end step

@slavisatosanovic2672 8 ай бұрын

If you can't win the same turn you resolve a Peer, your deck is poorly constructed and you should not be playing it.

@V2ULTRAKill 2 ай бұрын

@@slavisatosanovic2672 or you got hard fucked and your deck bricked, source: i play cedh decks that run pita One in every 200 or so games i get gods worst shuffle and not even pita could save me

@trash-ken 7 ай бұрын

There are cards that say opponents max hand size is reduced by 7. Miss me with that

@RandomHobo 7 ай бұрын

That's like one card lmao

@trash-ken 7 ай бұрын

1 plus tutors. Beside that theres also commanders and strategies who draw cards for all players and it quickly overfills hands. A reliquary tower cant hurt

@CovetedPeacock 8 ай бұрын

THANK YOU! I have been telling my playgroups for years that Reliquary Tower is a trap and that they’re putting it in decks that don’t need it. I’ve watched friends say it’s a mandatory include and then lose games because it doesn’t make the color of mana that they need, to the point where I don’t really deem it worthy even in decks that could seemingly want it most. I’ve made the point to them over these years that learning to make selections over what cards to discard to hand size is a test of skill that they would benefit in testing themselves on more often ☺️

@jolteon345 8 ай бұрын

If Reliquary Tower ruins the consistency of their decks due to pips, there are more problems than just the tower. There’s probably some other land hurting or they just didn’t include enough of a color/fixing. If 1/4 of the deck is black but they need 2-3 black pips for important cards, they should have closer to 1/3 of the land producing black in some way.

@LibertyMonk 6 ай бұрын

@@jolteon345sure, there are probably other terrible utility lands in any deck that's running Reliquary Tower too, because jank are often in the same deck together. That's not an excuse to run such a mid card, that's even more reason to take a close look at the mana base. If you need more colored pips, run a basic. If you just want untapped total land, run a more useful utility land, like a Radient Fountain (or something actually productive). Reliquary Tower is a symptom of a poorly designed mana base.

@nicolicarpathia318 8 ай бұрын

People gotta prioritize their current tactics and discard cards which arnt currently in-line with their current and future plays. And guess what? Discarding and drawing is normally Blue/Black and both have easy ways to get cards back.

@Bloody-Butterfly 9 ай бұрын

My opponents are usually drawing cards while I’m beating them in the face.

@jtyree0226 9 ай бұрын

My favorite form of card advantage

@Prince_Smugarina 8 ай бұрын

So that's why you got disqualified!

@hoodiegal 6 ай бұрын

It is a really nice land in *some* decks. I run it in a few of my decks, but those decks care about having a lot of cards in hand, or drawing a fuck ton of cards at once and slamming them all down on the next turn. Most of the time, you don't need Reliquary Tower.

@MakeVarahHappen Ай бұрын

If the best 7 out of 20 aren't doing it for you the runner-ups aren't better.

@christianmacintyre5453 5 ай бұрын

I run tower and thought vessel, in a brago flicker deck with lots of card draw and extra etbs. The card draw can get pretty insane, and having 20+ cards in hand gives me an answer to literally every possible threat while still maintaining my gameplan. Its not always about the best 7, but also what an unpredictable situation may call for. But in most cases yes, no max hand size is overrated

@Mintybird 13 күн бұрын

Think about it: "You might want to keep all your counterspells" is the reason why this effect is best on Blue, with the most draw and also the greatest access to hand/library extending cards. Control decks having options is the best outcome for them, but other decks might not need it or may even benefit through recursion. So outside of the context in which you may need them, usually for board control, it's pretty overrated.

@WarrickRanger 7 ай бұрын

I run Reliquary Tower in exactly one deck, which is my Wyleth Soul of Steel deck. That deck draws an upsurd amount of cards and runs things like Empyrial Plate and Hand of Vecna. But I agree, unless hand size explicitly matters in your deck, it's a waste of a slot.

@KingRoni1222 7 ай бұрын

PSA: Don't run Reliquary. Run Thought Vessel Instead. It's a rock.

@Zwagger318 9 ай бұрын

I run it in my nine finger Keene deck because I don’t run much draw, but the draw spells and draw effect on my commander are all designed to draw a ton of cards. Plus the deck has the full utility land package and ways to tutor them out so my mana is still fixed, even without the colored mana from reliquary tower

@kristophermichaud4467 9 ай бұрын

Only real chads reduce everybody's hand size to 3

@DiscardatRandom 9 ай бұрын

I agree but real chads discard everyone’s hand on the end step so no one has to discard to hand size

@joybeamwi 3 ай бұрын

Most people I see are not running enough tech lands, I think this is definitely cuttable for many other good options but is viable in 1-3 color decks usually without needing too much restriction.

@bobwilson679 9 ай бұрын

Very much disagree with the last point. The ability to have every answer in the book, from counterspells to creature removal to enchantment removal to boardwipes, plus multiple different lines to win, plus lands so you don’t miss land drops, makes it a lot harder to be overcome if you are in a winning position

@tylerblank6491 3 ай бұрын

I play Ulamog in my turbo-fog commander deck, simply to discard him and reshuffle my graveyard. He almost never hits the battlefield, and I almost always have to discard once the deck starts humming. Ulamog is best boy.

@CanadaJarod 24 күн бұрын

The argument against running reliquary tower is based on your color fixing ability. If your manabase can produce 20 of each of your colours or more with reliquary in it, including it won't slow down your deck in most cases

@declanboyd7713 9 ай бұрын

Ngl all I heard was how to build a better deck by implementing more card draw, playing cards faster, and actually playing reactive interaction rather than complaining about your opponent playing jin gitaxias after fully tapping out on their own turn i.e: just build your deck in a way that makes reliquary Tower do something. Precons can do it, you can do it too.

@salubrioussnail 9 ай бұрын

True, if there’s any argument to be made relating to Reliquary Tower and Jin-Gitaxis, it’s that it’s pretty cool that reliquary tower lets you keep all those Doom Blades you drew, guess you’d better use one on that Jin-Gitaxis.

@reynastrange2828 Ай бұрын

4. Someone is playing a group hug deck and you know you’re gonna be drawing five cards a turn, and you’ll only be able to play two or three of them

@calebbarnhouse496 3 ай бұрын

The problem with saying that 7 good cards is better then more cards is that in this case the only change in cards between this deck and the deck your proposing is the tower, so it's not 7 good cards vs 10 cards, its 7 good cards vs 8 good cards and 2 mid ones, for the cost of having access to the mana type that is the majority cost in most spells

@ofrund Ай бұрын

Counterpoint: I want to reserve brain usage to calculate how to win rather than what cards are the best 7 to keep

@oktalley99 9 ай бұрын

as a dirty izzet player, my happiness is directly correlated to the number of cards im drawing, even if ill get rid of any card for instant gratification. Ive embraced my red blue background and have maniacally getting rid of my deck as fast as possible, i dont care if they gi fo my hand or graveyard or if i play them, as long as i act entirely on impulse

@Lowelo860 9 ай бұрын

This is used to play tower in every single deck and realized it's not doing enough. Not to mention the abundance of good other utility lands nowadays id rather have a utility land that is guaranteed to be good when i draw it not i need 7+ cards in hand for this to do something. Only deck id run it in is the howling mine nekussar style decks.

@sythrus 8 ай бұрын

As a primarily green player, ive never really understood the obsession my buddy (blue player) has with no maximum hand size cards. Usually i have a lot of cantrips, or effects that turn other cards into cantrips, and since i run a lot of ramp, i dont really understand the struggle of being unable to play cards. I do play izzet secondary, and as said before, usually focus on cantrips for my draw

@bricknolty5478 Ай бұрын

I've had to explain this to my friends who ask why I'm not running Reliquary Tower effects in certain decks. For example for Curie and Beluna decks both have multiple of these effects. Tower, Though Vessel, Decanter of Endless Water, and Library of Leng (Curie)/Tishana(Beluna). Both are blue decks with a Commander that generates card advantage, want to draw into and hold up counterspells/removal, and overall the power of the induvidual cards in the decks are pretty weak unless gathered into a critical mass. (Curie wants to play lots of artifacts to make powerful Master of Etherium type creatures, and Beluna wants to survive until it can play Virtue of Strength and "Storm off" with something like Iraxxa or Flaming Tyrannosaurus.) On the other hand, my two other main decks are Kagha Self Mill, and Bladewing Dragon Reanimator. Not being able to discard to hand size actively locks me out of situations where I can use card draw as a discard outlet. Sculpting my hand, discarding creatures, and keeping reanimation and interaction in hand.

@biasdahl4737 8 ай бұрын

Definitely a Fairpoint I see a lot of decks playing tower that probably don’t need to run it but I think it’s a staple and any control back. once you’ve gotten to the point where you have 10 good cards in your hand, you can’t lose

@bluecollarcommander2030 Күн бұрын

I run reliquary in like one deck. And it's purely a greedy option thing. It's a low pip, 2 color deck so it has never really affect my mana base.

@jwarner1469 6 ай бұрын

I like Reliquary Tower because I also like cards like Teferi's Puzzle Box, which allows me to pitch my 18 card hand back into the Library for a fresh 18 and really go off.

@firestormingfox4169 2 ай бұрын

Remember to draw first, then discard lol

@samuelgreen2443 2 ай бұрын

Choosing what to chuck away is uber frustrating and time consuming :D

@donaldbrorson4583 Ай бұрын

Counterpoint: spells like shamanic revelation are a lot cheaper than cards like the great henge. The great henge is better because it provides you as much, if not more, cards as shamanic revelation on a schedule that confroms to hand size limitations, but this also makes it and similar effects more pricey. If you want cheaper options usually that means you have to resort to spells that show you all your cards at once rather than value engines.

@BR4IN1N4J4R 12 күн бұрын

Admittedly, most of my decks actually don't use No Max Hand Size cards at all since most of them have a reasonably low overall curve to where I can by turn 4/5 dump 2-3 cards a turn

@thegreatmaximilian Ай бұрын

I run the Tower in decks that can draw massive amounts of cards in one go. Especially in blue if I run a lot of Counterspells. I'm never sad when I see it, but I'm also always building towards a healthy mana base. But you are right, this card is not an auto include.

@grantmurdock7385 Ай бұрын

I use it in two decks, but that's because they have things that get better with big hand size. Most of my brews want to discard, and love filling the bin, so it's actively against my goals to not discard when possible. Magar doesn't want to cast a big dumb 10 mana sorcery, he wants to make it a creature. Dimir reanimation doesn't want to play fair in similar fashion.

@senoreverything6366 16 күн бұрын

Eh, it depends. The more expensive your mana base and your ramp, the better your color selection is, so the more valuable reliquary Tower is. ESPECIALLY with how important a handful of interaction is in CEDH. Lots of top tier decks run reliquary tower

@damnination333 3 ай бұрын

Or, hear me out, I run Folio of Fancies to give everyone no max hand size because I'm running Turbofog Hug, and I don't want to risk letting anyone discard an Eldrazi Titan to shuffle their graveyard back into their library.

@andrebogardus8098 2 ай бұрын

Finally. Someone understands. It does have a place im certain decks but ive seen it in decks where its actually bad. Lookimg at you surveil precon

@estebanramirez1178 9 ай бұрын

I have an Arjun deck that gets me crazy amounts of passive card draw, but I refuse to put in any cards that remove my limit because I have utilize a very specific kill spell that few people see coming; Psychic Spiral. It is a seemingly harmless spell that counts the cards in your graveyard before shuffling and forcing your opponent to mill that much. It doesn’t mean much unless you’re running a deck like mine that prides itself on emptying hand after hand of cards, but Arjun makes it easy to cycle through the library and repeat the process. On average, it takes around two cycles to successfully kill my opponent.

@TheL0rd0fSpace 5 ай бұрын

True, but I traded for the FNM promo of reliquary tower for a song when it was rotating out of standard. I can't bring myself to unsleeve that beauty.

@TheGloriousLobsterEmperor 6 ай бұрын

Glory to Reliquary Tower!

@mistertaz94 9 ай бұрын

It's not about need. It's about want. We W/U players want to live life with all available methods to screw over others as we please readily within reach. We want to keep 20 counterspells and taxes and freezes in our hand without discarding

@toasteroven8259 Ай бұрын

As a gitrog player the discard phase is my favourite part of the turn

@Butterkin 8 ай бұрын

I cast peer into the abyss, on myself. I can now play every single card I drew from peer into the abyss, which is half my deck. Effectively meaning that I drew 50 cards and can play any of them whenever I want- at the expense of half of my life total.

@lordfreed9453 6 ай бұрын

I've got 2 decks that run reliquary tower. One is my budget Pride of Hull Clade list that likes to draw 15-30 cards in a single shot and doesn't use its graveyard very well. The other is Braids, arisen Nightmare that loves to hold up large swathes of removal while building a board and drawing a bunch.

@paulharrison8152 28 күн бұрын

Why wouldn’t you want a colourless mana land that has a bonus ability of you having more options for things to do, especially if your holding cards to do a combo move.

@Thoughtmage100 9 ай бұрын

Its a fair point, but I did just add it to my Xavier Sal deck since a couple of creatures in that deck can let me draw as many cards as I want.

@jokerlover300 2 ай бұрын

As someone who play Baba Lysaga and plans to untap her multiple times in one turn, I can assure you that I do in fact require Reliquary Tower

@MegaGrip13 9 ай бұрын

I run reliquary tower in a single deck and that is kura the boundless sky because when i make marit lage and momentous fall her i want to keep basically all 20 of the cards i draw most of the time. It’s also a good tutor target for kura

@lauravturner Ай бұрын

I only run Reliq in one deck. It's my Seventh Doctor deck because the secret commander is Kozilek The Great Distortion. I use to run Wizard Class in my simic deck because sometimes I'd just draw half my deck, destroy Wizard Class and let mystic redaction kill everyone. People always expect the simic draw engine but don't expect you to proceed to throw all the cards in the graveyard.

@Adamhoppkeys 17 күн бұрын

I had a deck a few years back that drew to a hand size larger than remaining deck then won with psychosis crawler and mindmoil. Really needed the no max hand size in that one lol

@dizzynarutofan100 4 ай бұрын

Bro saying "making your mana base worse" over a single non-tapped land is like saying "You're making your diet worse" when someone has a single cookie once a week.

@Alexander-mw1ek 8 ай бұрын

It’s definitely overrated. Another thing is that in Green+whatever, its much better to just run a forest in that slot and then find space for a praetors counsel somewhere. Another point which you never brought up is that sometimes there is value to discarding even in decks with no recursion. When someone casts exhume (or any of the other hundreds of examples), you’ll be happy that you aren’t the only player at the table missing out on the goodies

@ElPayasoMalo 9 ай бұрын

I gain life for each card in my hand. My opponents lose life when I gain life. I have a lot of sorceries and creatures that care about how many cards I'm holding.

@lendrax5989 2 ай бұрын

I cast Peer Into the Abyss on myself a lot. I NEED that card

@UniversalJuan 8 ай бұрын

As a Vizzini user, I discard anyway and like to be counter ready and counter heavy! So no max hand is, for once, a boon!

@DEATHMETALRUST 8 ай бұрын

I actively do not like “no handsize” cards. If you can’t figure out the 7 cards to keep, play more magic.

@sun-does-shine 3 ай бұрын

Kinda a mandatory card for the five people in the world who run kefnet as a commander

@theetiologist9539 2 ай бұрын

Excuse me, I need a reliable 4 to 1 ratio of removal and counterspells to feel safe and no one will ever disabuse me of my card hoarding ways.

@brennanbuglioni2821 8 ай бұрын

Generally I would agree, but one of the last commander games I played with my shadrix deck I played necropotence with reliquary tower out and proceeded to have 30+ cards in my hand the rest of the game and won because I had all the answers sooo

@Dogsparkster 9 ай бұрын

Realistically if you aren't drawing a ton of cards. You don't need it. Sure there are times when you might get forced to draw a ton. But ask yourself this, how often is that actually happening?

@EnderPryde 2 ай бұрын

Jokes on you, I play Zhulodok. This card isn't making my mana base worse, at all

@ericsutton7401 8 ай бұрын

On Historic brawl, my mono-green deck can draw 30+ cards in a single turn, after dropping 20+ lands on the field.

@LibertyMonk 6 ай бұрын

Cool, so you can cast or play most of the cards you drew, and really don't need to "go off" for a second turn. Even if you did, you've got your choice of the 7 best cards to keep, and presumably some of your board.

@fadianwickstrom5970 8 ай бұрын

The advanced commander chad is as usual correct and the noobs and misunderstanders of the comment section rage against their lack of understanding. As usual you make great points

@totalvoid6234 Ай бұрын

Was a bit thrown out because this is a core card in a couple of my decks that glut draw and feature Multani and Empyreal Armor. Hadn't occurred to me people were just putting it in decks that occasionally go to 9 or 10.

@william4996 27 күн бұрын

I cut this and other handsize cards from my Raffine deck specifically because of Faith of the Devoted. Ive won multiple times drawing 18 cards and then discarding down to handsize to full drain the table. Every other deck, however......

@BIGNEILCOUSINS 8 ай бұрын

I run tower in a few decks that are really fun to play . However if I use one of my high power decks I'm not using it. Also depends on your play group and the cards they play. If you're up against Wheels and peer into the abyss then that might influence your deck building.

@CorruptionAura 8 ай бұрын

On the other hand, if you don't need it, you aren't running enough draw.

@exiledhero3791 9 ай бұрын

Plot twist: I play muldrotha and don’t care about them going to grave, I’ve got three clones and can bring back 4 of each type a turn.

@skyshadow6617 8 ай бұрын

*Me looking at my Feather deck*: Yeah... about that...

@Nathanael_Forlorn Ай бұрын

I'm playing a reactive toolbox slow-down-the-opponents-until-super-late, without any graveyard synergy. It needs the correct answers to not die. Now, is it a good deck to begin with? No. But it does highly benefit of no card limit. :D also bounce lands are a thing.

@scorpiosystem8082 3 ай бұрын

the only time discarding to hand size bums me out is if i'm being mana screwed and have several cards i WANT to use but can't, so i gotta choose which child to chuck into the grinder. thankfully this doesn't happen often, but when it does it's more of an annoyance than anything else

@MrReaperHand 9 ай бұрын

Yeah, unless you whole thing is about massive card draw to card selection. There are better ways to have no maximum card draw, but really it only reduces color base which can also be fixed. If one single card ruins your mana base I think there is bigger issues.

@LibertyMonk 6 ай бұрын

There are better ways to spend that "one single card" than on this effect. As stated in the video, you're already getting card selection if you're discarding to hand size. Actually keeping the 8th best card in your hand that you can't play or cast isn't as good as it sounds, let alone the 12th best card or 5th best land. They'll just rot in your hand the entire game. Unless you need a ton of cards for reasons like Storm, but you can't actually cantrip on the turn you go off (which would be a poorly built storm deck), run a Radient Fountain, a Field of Ruin, or a utility land that actually progresses your deck's game plan. Or a basic.

@slumdutchmillionare 2 ай бұрын

That’s like saying you only need so much mana… Cards are a resource. Bonus you aren’t running enough draw, don’t include it.

@luckyowl9191 5 ай бұрын

Fourth reason is if you have a care about hand size commander

@jonlamoreaux2228 8 ай бұрын

I'm sorry but in one and two color decks containing blue, black, or green Im almost always running this because these colors have so much freaking card draw, unless I'm specifically playing reanimator.

@technodragon990 5 ай бұрын

As a yugioh player, it's weird that people are scared to discard. I've never really cared about discarding down to hand size in either game. Especially since it lets me choose what goes to the GY and what stays in hand.

@madeofmandrake1748 5 ай бұрын

In commander there's 3 other players, so there's much more unpredictability going on at the table. Add the fact that it's a singleton format and it makes you more nervous about throwing stuff away, because that might be the one card you need later. In proactive decks yeah having a 20 card hand is kind of redundant, but if you're playing control or combo having more combo pieces or more answers to threats in hand can be powerful. There's also nothing quite like holding half your deck in your hands and just knowing your next turn is gonna be bonkers.