"Justin doesn't wanna talk talk talk talk talk about it He wants to tip-toe, walk around it Delete accounts and deny any abuse WOAH-OH, WOAH-OH"

“Heroes are human and humans can be trash…” -Co-defendants

Tbh breaking up the band and deleting social media so quickly directly after the accusations surfaced makes them/him look guilty. Look at Daughters

I'm 38 I've been involved in punk rock since I was 14. I've come to hate "the punk scene" over the last ten years.

I give the other three members a lot of credit for sticking to their values and pulling the plug right away.

'Believe all women' is about not dismissing accusations. Its not about swinging wildly from "innocent until proven guilty" to "guilty until proven innocent". If you care abour justice, you will be expanding on the actual case itself rather than the gossip and corollaries around it.

People don’t have to “prove themselves to be innocent.” That’s not how it works. Accusations are not the same as evidence.

Good comments. As a bit older person who really started to get into that band around Terror State (and went back to their earlier stuff), this news is jarring, and while AF isn't my absolute favorite punk band I do like them, can only imagine what their diehard fans are going through. A few comments: *The accuser appears very credible. *It is clear she was talking about Justin. The Interwebs blew up with his name, if he wasn't the guy she would have made a statement about it. *I am sorry, at this time the other 3 members of the band are 100% innocent. And I believe they did not know what was up. People who do nefarious shit have a talent of not letting people know (for a while) *Justin's statement was milquetoast, I agree with Jack *It's pretty much fact Justin knew this woman. If he didn't know her he could have just said, "I don't know her, she said she texted with her attacker, since that's not me check the text records"---I doubt they exist from 12 years ago, but it would have been a comment that would have lended Justin some cred *From the moment this podcast came out to this moment I have seen ZERO shred of even the most benign of anecdotal evidence to suggest Justin could be innocent *I saw a comment from a poster below about maybe an alphabet agency being behind this. Interesting thought, but I don't think Anti-Flag was big enough to warrant such a program *Can you separate art from the artist? That's personal. I actually did listen to a couple Anti-Flag songs last night and the music itself seem to take me away from this situation. I really don't want to put money into Justin's pocket, but I also don't mind supporting his innocent band members. This is a tricky situation. *As another poster said below, this is a complete betrayal. *I have no problem with the other members waiting to make a statement. They made the statement, it was short and to the point. I am sure, if they are not in the know about Justin as I suspect, they are beyond flabbergasted at the accusations against Justin *This truly sucks

When I was 17 (22 years ago), I took my then 16 year old girlfriend to see Anti Flag and Tiger Army. I was (and still am a SHARP) and always thought AF was too poppy for my taste despite appreciating their message. After the show, my girlfriend wanted to meet the band and Justin was going around kissing mostly underage girls on the cheek, including my girlfriend. As much as I wanted to punch the guy, I ignored it and wrote it off as innocent as my gf was "star struck" over the experience. Justin was 28 years old at the time.

And now according to reddit, on top of this accusation Justin has been sleeping with minors for decades

someone buy this guy a microphone...he has done such an awesome service for us for so long, and still running an awful audio system. Perhaps he can give us an idea of his setup and we can crowd fund some goodies for him. He deserves it!

The thing about being part of a mob is that the mob eventually turn on themselves

Listened to the podcast. She seemed pretty credible. There is no due process here because it happened 10 years ago and there is no way of knowing 100% what the truth is. So sadly our two choices are to not believe a very credible sounding rape victim, or to vilify a performer who spent his whole career purportedly speaking out against the very person he is. Confusing and sad.

thought he was a punker turns out he was just a raper

is there a video of the Fat Mike bit?

In alot of the punk circles im part of, the community, myself included, was very quick to denounce the band, specifically Justin because his actions were horrific and were the exact opposite of what the bands message was. As someone who was a large fan of the band I feel extremely betrayed and disgusted. That sort of behavior has no place in the punk scene and I think the community has done a pretty good job at holding the band accountable

I was on the warped tour in 2000 and you haven't a clue as to just how fucked someofthesebands acted

Odd that he sat and talked trash on Trump and yet he’s as guilty as the one he talked trash on. I grew up punk and rebelled against my parents. 30 years later I have 5 kids and am still punk pushing against big pharmaceutical and big corporations, but I never thought being a conservative would be punk, my kids and I have mosh pit Mondays before they get on the school bus. I love anti flag huge part of my youth it’s just hard to listen to the so called punks call for canceling free thinking if you don’t fallow the sheep and get the jab or agree with segregation in schools, I thought punk was against facist tactics

Not a fan but "guy from NOFX believes it and that's enough for me" is an interesting stance.

Dude please invest in a mic, it would really bring the quality up a notch.

It pisses me off when a band that actually seems like it cares about people, and people only, does bullshit like this..

Feminist punk band got destroyed by a female .... lol

This was beyond heartbreaking. For most of us, Anti Flag was probably the first political punk that was talking about topics relevant to us. It seemed as thought they gave a shit. Then hearing what Justin did to these people, fuck, it's such a betrayal. Obviously his victims are more betrayed than the fans were. What did give me hope was all these former anti flag fans saying, this message meant more to us than it did to you, and now we don't need you anymore. It could've gone the other way, and hurt the scene in such a negative way. Even in the punk scene. Power corrupts. Good riddance, Justin Sane.

Tbh the story she told sounds like the biggest cover up for cheating I’ve heard. Guess people these days take to social media and podcasts before the police or legal system. Everyone jumping on the bandwagon before any proof of guilt or innocence.

I’ve been a fan since 1997. I’ve met Justin several times and he’s a self-important dick. But the rest of the guys are stand-up humans and I will still be fan of their music. I did not suspect that this kind of stuff was happening with him but I am also not surprised, if that makes sense. I am a separate the artist from the art kind of person and I will still rock out to my favorites moving forward. I also can’t wait to see what Chris #2 does next.

How does his statement seem like it was crafted and thin. Everything about it matches with exactly how Justin would speak. Clear, and intelligent.

On the plus side, at least there won’t be any more Anti-Flag albums.

im from pittsburgh and grew up going to anti flag matinee shows at club Laga, they tunred me to political punk rock,this surprises me a ton.i always thought they practiced what they preach and im sure the other member still do, but wtf Justin wtf, you hurt alot of people

I’m interested to hear what Fat Mike had to say during that PID show haha

Unless you were in that room stfu no one knows truly what happened. I'm not saying Justin is innocent but I'm not saying woman don't lie about such things too.

This breaks my heart 💔 I got so much from their music in my youth, and this is such disappointing behavior 😔

My g/f already has her own personal story of Jorge of the Casualties peeking in on her at 12-13yrs old when he worked at Trash& Vaudeville, making that whole issue not a surprise. Then the Sturgeon (LOC) moment, now this?? Man...being an adult really sucks!

I never cared for AF, but I do believe in due process. We must withold judgement until we hear all the facts.

Well said, Jack. Thanks for speaking on the topic

People are too fast to pass judgement. People push too much to cancel a whole band/group of people and expect those people to exile the person who had allegations against them. The band extends past the 4 band members in stage. They have their crew that tours with them, they have a record label, they have employees. Who’s lives are flipped upside down in a matter of minutes and the majority of people are now pointing fingers and ruining their judgement on something they most likely didn’t know of or had any idea until now. Even still we don’t know the result. We all want justice for the victim. It’s too early for all of us to know or have answers. To expect everyone to hate at the drop of the hat is insane. If the allegations are true, I understand that fans will feel betrayed but the others in the band and the good they have done and have stood up for and pushed for shouldn’t be discredited. On them removing all of their social media and taking a few days to make statements… I think that was the safest thing for them to do. With everything I’ve said or anyone has the hate is there. People love to hate and try to push out their judgments and punishments they feel are just. The amount of comments, messages, threats, etc. that would have blown up all of their social media that day would be overwhelming. It’s great that people care so much and stand up for victims and that they are heard and listened to. I think we need to keep that up but also extend that care to others who are impacted and not guilty or involved directly. Not everyone shows signs they are abusive. Families and friends are shocked when they find out in any case. This case and anyone in the public eye shouldn’t be different. There are public leaders who have allegations or have been proven guilty of similar crimes are still in power and still have thousands of people on their side. Sorry for the long opinions. I don’t want to get into a debate in comments. I just feel very strongly for all who are personally impacted by the situation on all sides.

What did Fat Mike say? I've watched a lot of vids from both days in Tacoma (including the full day 1). Still waiting to see a clip of anything he has to say about this.

He doesn't have to prove he is innocent. He hasn't been convicted of anything. I'm fucking sick of this guilty until proven innocent bullshit. If she can't prove he did anything to her then as far as I'm concerned he's innocent.

Did you go to the Tacoma punk in drublic tour?

I was at Punk in Drublic in Tacoma. Fat Mike and also Suicide Machines Jason Navarro were talking about it. I guess you were at the same show. What a shock

How long has A-F been around? At least 25 years I'm guessing. Has anything like this happened before? I mean specifically, has Justin been accused of S.A. before? It's highly unlikely a person waits until they are 40 years old to start doing shit like this. i'm not so quick to judge these days after the Jonny Depp/Amber Turd case. Also, I always thought Justin Sane was a gay dude. So hearing he sexually assaulted a woman is really weird to me. I have all their early stuff, and this is really a blow.

Extremely disappointing. I had a lot of nostalgic feelings from high school tied to that band, and had recently dived back into them.

But is there actually solid evidence ? cuz these days people just say that sort of thing to purposefully ruin peoples lives, the bigger that band got, the more people were out to get them.

It hasn't been easy to process this news. I cant believe it. But everything that has happened with the backlash, seems a very open admission of Guilt. Sickening. Anything for fame and fortune 🤮😵‍💫. Punk is on its knees.

I still haven't seen any evidence in favor of the defendant or the alleged victim

I don’t listen to Anti Flag but people have to be careful assuming someone is guilty because someone makes an allegation. I’m not saying nothing happened condemning someone based off a statement he made denying and anything Fat Mike says is a bit unfair, at least be impartial and present what is known and let the police investigate it. If he is innocent then this sort of thing sticks like shit. I get it it you don’t want to risk your channel by not assuming he is guilty.

I hate to say it but the whole "guy quoting Emma Goldman the loudest at the feminist workshop is the predator" stereotype is a stereotype for a reason. 9/10 will be righteous but the 1 is real and can't be ignored. Any movement or belief system is open to manipulation and opportunists taking advantage of things and constant vigilance against it is a must 🏴 A lott rhe best people I've known shoplift and do H, it's a far cry from whay Stza did. The part that bothered me most about that situation was that he'd been doing foul stuff for DECADES and no one did anything past local scenes rejecting em.

What does the ➖❌❌➖ symbol mean, from the 20/20 Division and 20/20 Vision albums?

This broke my heart because Anti Flag was one of my favorite punk bands of all time. I don't know if I can even listen to them anymore.

Please do a video on Punk Rock Gangs (SXE / FSU, The Suicidals, Nazi Skins…), they are referenced in the awesome NOFX book, but I want more information 🤔

I dont understand she never mentions the person by name. So how did be get blamed?

I haven’t seen anyone saying this man should go to prison. A man who does what this man is being accused of should be in prison. I’m saying this about my hero. Heroes be damned.

After Corona, I couldn't really take them seriously anymore. All those fotos they shot with their maskes on. CRINGE. They sing all the time about the intrusive state, then it shows up and blackmails people, and they go along with it. Either you have certain principles, if you're already writing such lyrics all the time, or you simply don't have them. The fact that he might treat women that way didn't shock me anymore.

Nobody knows for sure what happened but the parties involved. I watched the podcast a few times and will say this: There are a few major inconsistencies and certain details of her story that change as the podcast goes on. In most parts of her story, she seems to be reminiscing, rather than reliving trauma. In fact, a lot of the podcast is filled with laughs and good “memories”, which is strange for someone who has experienced something as horrible as what she describes. I’ve accepted the possibility that these accusations are true, but also that they may be false. If you watch the podcast with the possibility of her being an obsessed fan, angry at the fact that fling didn’t turn out as she wanted it…it’s put things into a different perspective. Again, if these allegations are true, it’s horrible and extremely upsetting that Justin is capable of such monstrosity. But if these allegations are false…Justin is not the monster.

My rule these days is when this shit happens, I'll still privately consume the media if it's important to me growing up but I'll never give another cent that will go towards them and I'll never mention or recommend them to anyone. You can't undo the impact these creators have had on you while still making sure they never do harm to anyone again. You can't go back and jam a different band into your early teens. That will forever be Anti-Flag or Rancid or whatever other band decided to be shitbags and cover it up. Fucking sucks, no way around it.

Watching the pod cast that girl has too many holes. Justin would not do this since when is it guilty until proven innocent? And it’s his word against hers and I’m sorry she seems full of shit to me.. she is emotionless says he was creepy but then gets drunk with him and agrees to go up to his hotel? Also Justin says in interviews he likes beer how is he deciding to break edge? Also how he got her number since when do cans just leave while band members are still on stage and heads down to have a one on one with some girl? Weird… AND if you had a bf why would him flirting with another girl matter? Why would you feel special he chose you? Girl you felt guilty for cheating on your bf so you had to tell yourself you are a victim so you don’t have to take responsibility for being a cheater.. also he probably blew you off afterwards so you were like he tricked me blah blah blah.. I met Justin a few times always super cool not creepy I DONT BELIEVE YOU!

Honestly didn’t know they were still a band

so let me get this right..... the guy hasn't been charged for any crime and we're just going on hearsay?

so i wanna post something for the anti-flag fans. over the years i've had to deal with the idea that a lot of my favorite creators might be scumbags or problematic as hell. these 8 rules really help me figure out if you (you personally) is ok with it and if you can still listen/enjoy them (separating the art from the artist so to speak) hopefully they'll work for some of you to figure out if you can still listen to anti-flag. they're designed to be as broad as possible btw. 1. what did the creator say/do? 2. what was the context in which they said/did the thing? 3. how bad is what the creator said/did in your eyes? 4. did the creator attempt to make amends equal or greater than the harm they caused? (this part is pretty subjective) 5. what does the creator's work mean to you personally? 6. do you think you could live without it? (aka do you feel your life is enriched by having them in your life more than not) 7. is there a way you can still enjoy the creator's work without giving them money? 8. are you happy still calling yourself a fan despite how that might make you look in the eyes of others?

Damn, only found about this right now. I haven’t listened to Anti Flag for a long while. Although I’m a Die For the Government middle school kid. This is hard news to take.

I've defended Ben Weasel much more than I ever will Justin and that's because of the mission statement from a band like Anti-Flag. Ben tells you he's a piece of shit every chance he gets (kinda like Louis CK). I wish more people would do that. Justin, however, is a social justice guru (at least in his mind) and that's why this one is a harder pill to swallow. Truth be told, The Terror State was the last AF album I really liked but that was at a precipice of a substantial run of albums, imo. In my practice of separating the art from the artist, I also don't believe in heroes nor do I put much, if any, faith into public opinion. I still enjoy their older material even with a heap of disgust... but going forward, all due respect to a victim of a heinous crime.

Are you on tour with DIESEL BOY? I think I saw you in Belgium.

The woman’s story is thin at best and AF deleting accounts is not an admission of guilt. I don’t even like AF musically or for their message but I really am not into this culture of stamping people guilty without evidence.

How do we know that the allegations are true? Believe me, I'm no anti-flag fanboy. I was always kinda turned off by the righteous attitude.

I’m shocked the lead singer wasn’t accused of sexual assault by a man.

Fat Mike is a very reputable person and I would believe and do anything he says 😂😂😂

did i miss something? she never names him as the guy ? i listened to her whole podcast

Live by the believe all women, die by it.(they had no wait for the facts to come out. Read their old twitters, Justin was full on for cancelling anyone accused even if the were clear doubts) They loved it when i was against people they didnt like. So i get pleasure of them having it bite them hard The fact the went sooo fast to deleting socials and breaking up is very very telling as well i felt she was honest, didnt really have the clout chasing some allegations can have, she was one a small podcast and didnt name the person as im guessing didnt want stans and people to attack her. We all know how some of the most “progressive ” can really be what they claim to hate.

In San Diego they're known as Anti-Marine because they played a show here years ago and started talking shit about Marines and it was at the time where 1000's were dying in Afghanistan.

So another male feminist outed as a sexual predator. It’s not like this has happened a hundred times before. Imagine my shock.

Can't find any footage of Fat Mike talking about this. If anyone does, hmu.

Just remember Eden bad hypocrites can make good points. If a murderer says murder is bad during the day, while committing murder at night, he still a murderer, but it doesn’t mean that murder was never bad just because he was a hypocrite. Justin might be a predator or abuser, but the way some people are acting, you would think that means, well the Iraq war wasn’t an illegal thing after all, because one of the people who said a lot about, it, turns out to be a hypocrite. Humans are gona human, the good bad and the ugly

If someone who has been sexually assaulted, does not go and file a criminal complaint against their attacker, I no longer believe the accuser. We have repeatedly had people’s reputation destroyed by accusations that later turned out to be false. I want to believe women, but I’m gonna need proof.

Well, he didn't do anything, but was accused of doing things and people are running with it. Yes, you probably would use a legal response when every random person is accusing of you of one of the more heinous things a human being can do on an interpersonal level. Also, I don't think it's too hard to imagine the rest of Anti-Flag not continuing the band because even if the allegations were verifiably proved 100% untrue without a reasonable shadow of doubt an insurmountable amount of damage to their image and career was done instantaneously. If you feel so strongly about the subject that you think the rest of the band and people they employ and take on the road should be without income and have their 25+ year careers damaged, anything that's brought up maybe other than the prior mentioned possibility will affirm your biases.

It’s likely we’ll never really know, but I’m inclined to believe the victim and Justin losing his band is already a sentence, what else is there to say

The music and the message will always live on.

You don't prove innocents. You prove guilty. A threat is not proof.

I saw them a few times growing up in Pittsburgh. The last time being at the chesarena in 2009 I think. Loved them coming up and had their early albums. Fucked up situation.

i guess is guilty until proven innocent huh?

I'm still going to listen to songs I like, regardless of what someone does after I already like them. Me listening to underground network doesn't mean I support hard R, or blasting outlaw anthems doesn't mean I'm cool with underage. Humans make choices, sometimes really really bad choices, and face consequences for them. It doesn't undermine everything they've ever done or said. Anyway, wtf was that ending track? Rainbow connection blink 182 style?

My sister has known Justin since they were both in their early teens and before Anti-Flag was at all famous. I believe she’d consider him a good friend. I’m shocked by this. I met him briefly once but can’t say I was able to form any opinion of him.

They needed to break up after "for blood and empire"

Are you Finn Mckenty's little bro?

It's kind of shitty how everyone just believes some 20 yr old accusation and takes it for fact. Idk if it happened but is it really fair to just cancel the dude? Why didn't this girl go to the police?

That's what SJW punk fans get for taking "virtue signaling" seriously.

Has this even been proven? I've had plenty of friends nearly lose there freedom over a jealous female

could you possibly make a video about ALL

Let's not let this unpleasant experience dishearten us.

Justin is a rich kid who went to a private Catholic school. Working class my arse. Funny how they tell us to live one way but they live another way

Sucks that this happened. It’s still a “he said she said” thing right now but Justin’s response does seem telling.

I’m coming at a former abuser myself. I’m not throwing away my records. Pat doesn’t deserve to pay for Justin’s actions❤

To be fair, I'm not sure Fat Mike has much room to cast judgement on anyone. No idea what happened, but i havent listened to anti flag since i found out what he "did" and the fact that they deleted everything and gave bland responses to a fan base that was grasping for a response, is disappointing

NICE NOFX SHIRTTTTT

Seems very much as if you view the allegations as proven - is there any evidence?

Justin Sane did not look very healthy the last time I saw them live a year ago. I knew something was up with him.

In "safe spaces" like the "punk rock" scene you're guilty until proven innocent

I just heard of this….I’ve been listening to their music… and then heard this happened. Holy shit

What did fat Mike say?

I have questions about Kristina's story that don't make sense. For one, she claims that she was intoxicated, so how does that add credibility to her story? She said that Justin shoved his penis down her throat and had a pregnancy scare 2 months later. A woman cannot get pregnant from oral sex, so where is the connection between those two statements? She said she thought she was going to die but didn't say anything to anyone, which sounds like she wasn't worried that it could happen to some one else. Also, Ray from Teenage Bottle Rocket was accused of sexual assault, but it must have been a lie because nothing happened to him. Anyone can be blamed at any time of raping some one else. I've seen people on different social media platforms call others rapists and child molesters. Piss some one off and the same fate can happen to anyone. I am fully aware that survivors are allowed to come forward with their allegation at any time, but it's kind of ironic that she chose to come out with this story at a time when Anti-Flag is "headlining festivals". She stayed silent when the pandemic hit and when live shows were stopped. The podcast was big enough to catch attention and end all 4 members' career, so the argument that the "Enough" podcast has so few subscribers to not gain attention is flawed. It caught the attention of a lot more people that day, more than a couple hundred. A lot of people are seeing this from one side, and while I initially believed Kristina, I also have no concrete, hard evidence to base that off of. This is social media, a place filled with fake people, scammers, and liars. Can you trust everything you see and hear? I don't. I am not defending Justin but raising questions I have because all that we have at this very point in time is one person's word versus another - no evidence. If you were accused of raping some one else, wouldn't you want the "Innocent until proven guilty" principle to apply to you, too?

I dont think Ive ever heard any verbal utterance related to Anti Flag that wouldn't fall under the banner of "Thin & Generic"..

I would say the band should stick by Justin until proven guilty but up and leaving the country says a lot. Will still love their older stuff pre-blood and empire