If Jamal ain’t strong cause he’s built well to deadlift, then MJ ain’t good at basketball cause he’s tall

"Sumo is not conventional, that its true *next one* " lol

People that say that a sumo 1050 pound deadlift isn't impressive obviously have never went to the gym and there only training experience is that 3 pull ups that they did a few months back

I personally think it makes sense to have have two separate work records, one sumo and one conventional, keeps everyone happy that way.

I'm sorry but I have to ask, did you make the sounds of your intro with your mouth?

I do both. Sumo seems to be easier on your back, but it’s way harder to get the bar moving up because you can’t drive with your legs as hard, conventional is easier to pull the bar off the ground but harder to lock out…I can’t decide which one I like better l but I Usually find myself doing sumo so my lower back isn’t as pissed off.

"This is absolutely true." lmaoooo

I think Sumo is perfectly valid as a lift and as an exercise but I still think it should be considered in a separate category to conventional because it isn't the same lift. Split jerk log presses, sumo deadlifts and wide grip benches with a massive arch all look cheap and, while perfectly valid on their own, are nonsensical to compare with conventional versions of these lifts. I appreciate it is somewhat of a grey area but the line has to be drawn somewhere or we open the door to absurd lifts that game the system as potentially valid.

In the gym I train and work at "sumo is cheating" has become a running gag. But it isn't used to mock sumo lifters but instead the people actually thinking that it is cheating.

Purely based on the fact of aesthetics I pull conventional lol

I switched from conventional to sumo due to a back injury and when I started pulling sumo I was weaker than I was in the conventional pull, it's a different lift, even a change of grip can mess with your lift, nevermind a sumo v conventional deadlift.

You realise the point made at 1:40 is that thor's hands are gripping the outside of his legs which causes the bar to bend less before the complete load leaves the floor. So not only does Jamal have a ROM advantage from a wider stance but the bar also bends more from his hands being close to the middle to the bar. There is also the factor of less torsion required due to moment arms from pulling sumo. Overall sumo is mechanically easier especially for lifters who are lighter and have the biomechanics to perform it effectively. Take the example of the most efficient sumo lifter and conventional puller sub 110kg, the sumo lifter will lift more every time. Disregard people in the middle of the bell curve who find "conventional" easier, you're not competing at the highest level which is where these comparisons are being drawn. I've practiced mech eng for 4 years professionally and broken an IPF world record in the deadlift at worlds. Sumo will never be respected for pure strength in the same way conventional will because it is easier at the highest level of the sport. Also, I am not disparaging sumo lifters or making fun of them but people are naturally inclined to because of what's explained above, they just haven't been able to put it into words.

At my gym, whilst arguing with gym staff that deadlifting with straps on a platform does not "break the bar", a guy came up and said "you shouldn't deadlift like that (sumo) because I've never seen anyone lift like that". This was for 250kg (550lbs). Fucking woop de doop buddy! Guess every WR holder should go home because you haven't seen it!! Btw the gym staff were reasonable and let me continue after an explanation :)

Deadlift is my favorite lift, and probably will always be. I switched to Sumo and found that I couldn’t even pull 75% of my max. I began working on opening up my hips, and now I can say I am so much more comfortable pulling sumo than conventional. Also, it has shot up my squat as well, because I am much more mobile. I still pull conventional everyone other deadlift session. I only test my max on sumo, since I feel I can create much more tension at the bottom given my anatomy.

-Sumo haters PR deadlift: Convetional: 200 lbs Sumo: less than Convetional -Still sumo haters: Sumo is cheating 😢😢

I switched to sumo a few years back due to repeated back injuries. First thing that happened was that I lost 50 lbs off my 1RM. After a few years I’ve gained back that lost ground and added another 50 to the max. Thing is, every so often I try a heavy conventional pull just to see how it feels. I can pretty much replicate my new sumo max with conventional. It did not go the other way.

If you're hating on sumo you best be pulling snatch grip, conventional is just cheating ;)

I just wanna add some precisions about what you said (I'm not a hater, but I'd just want to add some elements) : -Cailer did the 900lbs convy cause he did his training cycle conventional (you mentionned that in your videos) -You can mention that Russek Orhii has 325kg convy, and when he tested sumo he "only" pulled 300kg, so when you switch to sumo it's not an explosive gain of strength... -You mentionned in you previous video that Jamal started convy, he pulled 327,5kg in 2016, and in 2017 when he switched to sumo he pulled 352,5kg. It's not a huge difference when you know there is months of training. -And finally I totally agree for your argument with superheavyweights, and you could have mentionned the WR sumo and convy : in 140+ kg class it's about 420kg sumo and it's 460kg conventional...

I switched to sumo because conventional was destroying my back (flat footed and tendons in my hips felt like crap). I train deadlifts 2-3 times a week and sumo feels so much more natural and comfortable to me. Recently pulled a 495lb sumo. I was curious to see if the strength had translated to my conventional (that I hadn't tried in months) and to my surprise I was able to do 455lb. There is a difference but strength is strength

Obviously mad respect for strong deadlifts, sumo or conventional. But you cannot deny that sumo stance DOES actually decrease the range of motion and thus making it (slightly) easier to complete the lift until full lockout.

Sumo should be a separate lift. It is still impressive, but it ain’t the same lift.

The only "problem" I may see with the sumo stance deadlifts is that as all sports are improving, there may come a time, as an example, when 600 kg's is plausable for a deadlift, but the catch is while an inch won't make that difference, sumo + maximum bent bar may give you such an edge that all you may have to do is "lift" entirety of the weight for and inch or two, while conventional guys may have to triple or quadruple we travel distance needed in order to lift the bar. Either bars will change, or the rules

I think sumo is fine but when the lifters stance is so wide that their toes are almost touching the plates thats when it gets excessive. Same thing with the back arches and super wide grips on bench, I feel like it defeats the whole point of the sport; its a strength competition not a f**king yoga contest.

Sumo or conventional or how ever you want to lift it, doesn't matter. It matters that someone is that strong to deadlift over a thousand pounds so I don't know why people hate on sumo

We have to be honest. Sumo deadlift and conventional should be never compare . This is the different styles of pulling. We have record in conventional and sumo. I would personally prefer to separate natural athletes from steroids

While I have nothing against sumo lifters, I think it would be silly to not at least acknowledge that it confers some advantage in the lift. Similar to extreme arching in the bench press, it can shorten the ROM considerably, especially given some people’s natural proportions. I have never known a serious lifter whose sumo pulls are not at least marginally higher than their conventional pulls

Bottom line, the sumo deadlift and conventional deadlift are different lifts and should be put in seperate catorgories. It's like saying bench press and incline bench press should count in the same category, even though they both work the same muscles to a very similar degree, I don't think anybody would argue that's it's still two very different lifts

Im my case, i tried sumo... but i wanted to get wide, so i switch to conventional, i got wider, and yes i feel im stronger. I feel better to do conventional, for me it works better.

You may argue whether it is harder or easier. It is a different lift with different body mechanics. Nobody thinks of sumo when some say deadlift. Counting it in powerlifting as deadlift makes no sense to me either. Why not just make a sumo deadlift record?

I think the leg width also has to do with how wide Hafthor is, i.e., his arms are farther apart as well and he still wants his knees and elbows close. Would be interesting to see the foot width measurement on a few more top athletes to compare %s. Also a 30% difference sounds pretty significant to me...

Been here since pretty early, really has helped me get into powerlifting more and understand it. You deff deserve more subs

Stance width relative to the bar is not “objective” between someone who is a 6’9” monster and Jamal lmao what a joke. If you want something objective then use the stance width relative to their hips, not the bar because you can’t possible determine the change in range of motion by percent of the bar covered by their stance. It’s relative to their own hips and where their legs would be straight that affect range of motion...straight down from hips would be max ROM and the further out from that point would be less and less the further out they go RELATIVE TO THE PERSON’S HIPS

Thing is, it doesn't matter if you think sumo is easier than conventional or not. In powerlifting, it's allowed for any competitor to use it. If it's advantageous and more comfortable for you to pull sumo at a powerlifting meet, you should do it. In the long jump, you don't get penalized for jumping differently than the next athlete, for example. You should do the way that is going to give you the most distance (or in this case, weight).

I tried switching to sumo after years of conventional wasnt even able to get my conventional pr with sumo

Good video man and congrats on getting 10,000 subs

Love the featured content at the end, and as always perfect content overall!

I prefer conventional purely because of my goals, I do bodybuilding and the bigger range of conventional is way better for development because of the extra time under tension it allows.

Thank you for shouting me out man 🙌🏾. I'm glad your addressing this people hate on sumo to much,and they always find a way to discredit those who use the technique.

I’m just that guy that makes fun of any of my friends who do sumo but at the same time, if someone deadlifts more than me, who am I to criticize their technique

Nice video man, I just subscribed. Can't wait to see more 💪💪💪

A big conventional pull seems to take a lot longer to recover from than a sumo with some of the top guys.

When I sumo deadlift I lose 3 inches off my ROM. . I also add about 25kg onto my 1RM. Its mechanicaly a more advantageous position to deadlift in. a shit ton easier in my experience. And I ha e a positive ape index

I just want to know what is the max of strength in natural lifters

I am one of those lifters that pulls the same amount of weight regardless of whether or not I go sumo or conventional. My height is just over 5'9" and I have arm and leg lengths that do not favor one over the other, so I pull both ways just to show people that it is the same either way. The way I look at it is that if you are competing in a sport with rules, it really does not matter what the critics say because at the end of the day, they are not giving you your medals and they are not recording your numbers in the record books. You don't need to impress the critics. You do, however, need to impress the judges.

Deadlifting 1050 lbs sumo is insanely impressive, just not as impressive as if it was convential tho. Its simple, shorter range of motion, less stress on the back, biomechanically it's a slightly easier lift. But when your doing over 1000 lbs it doesnt really matter

Obviously ROM is different for different people. Still a fact that FOR ANY GIVEN PERSON, sumo has a shorter ROM than conventional. Real point is, it ain't allowed in Strongman, and if I'm not mistaken, straps ain't allowed in most powerlifting orgs, leaving that lift on the island of impressive non records. Nothing wrong with sumo, but it's a different lift. Acknowledging that isn't 'sumo hate'.

the hand distance also effects difficulty of the lift the bar bends more the narrower you grab the bar. On sumo you can place your hands inside your legs and the bar will leave the floor at a later stage in the lift due to the bar bend. So hand placement and foot placement both effect the lift. Also on sumo the shoulder rotate around the bar less because you can lock out the weight without pulling the shoulders behind the bar. Less rotation of the bar causes the lift to be easier especially when lifting straps are not allowed. This is why it is much easier to hook grip sumo rather than conventional. Shoulder rotation around the bar is also effected by the build of the lifter. A longer torso causes the upper body to rotate further and larger legs also cause the bar to be further away from the shoulders horizontally at the top of the lift. On sumo you can balance the bar at lockout much easier with less bar rotation conventional requires more of the upper body behind the bar to balance the weight at lockout. So alot of things that make sumo easier have to do with handplacement, lockout, and bar/shoulder rotation rather than foot placement.

Did conventional for months, now changed to sumo because i can brace better, and one thing i noticed is that it is really hard to pull sumo, and as i got used to the movement, became easier for me to pull sumo. Conclusion, do what make you more comfortable and practice it, simple.

I've seen all the arguments for sumo. I still dislike it very much. Having said that, sumo is not better for the bigger lifters. Jamal is still very impressive though.

1. Thor is a much wider guy so saying Jamal’s stance isn’t that much wider is pretty irrelevant considering his shoulders aren’t nearly as broad. 2. Sumu doesn’t require any more mobility, if anything conventional requires more since you need to bend over further while making sure your ass is in the right position. 3. Sumu is less of a deadlift than trap bar “deadlifts” (look at the squat hinge continuum). If powerlifting allows pulling sumu they should allow pulling trap bars. 4. Vast majority of sumu pullers are just ego lifters. The main point of a deadlift is to strengthen the back, the sumu deadlift isn’t even close to conventional when it comes to working the lower back muscles. So people who pull sumu don’t actually care about strengthening the back, they just want to move a lot of weight.

So would you say the bigger gut is doing a frog stance/ semi sumo stance ?

So in strongman I see it that the wider stance is very often paired with straps because it allows you to use more of your legs (hamstrings) along with back strength and completely eliminating grip depending on the strap you use, I say that without straps the wider stance would not work as well a narrow conventional stance because it wont push on your grip. When I want to play around when maxing out I pull wide with straps I have tried sumo and it isn't as easy for me because I do not have the mobility for sumo

If sumo and conventional are the same loft as your staying and sumo has no mechanical advantage, how come it consistently takes a 400+lb man to pull 450kg+ but Jamal (+whoever else) can pull a similar weight at a MUCH lesser body weight. I pull sumo myself about half the time I deadlift. So I’m not a sumo hater. But I’m also logical and I’m aware of its mechanical advantages.

Sumo is a different lift. Just don't compare conventional records to sumo.

I’m 6ft with long arms and legs. I pull sumo with a wide stance. I’m a more quad dominate person. When i switched to sumo I was able to pull a lot more weight

“Not short, just efficiently built”

The central issue is that they're different lifts. They should have different records, you can't compare the two.

"won't influence the distance until lockout that much" Actually it does. And it's been tested for multiple kinds of sumo stances. They all are drastically lower. and a much easier pull. A sumo deadlift will never be as impressive as conventional.

Great content man! Keep it up! :D

I respect those that pull sumo. Strong is strong. However, if I every got the vote [I never will] I'd vote to add 'hands must grip the bar outside of the legs' to the comp rules.

Just look at Reino Heinla’s latest instagram post on his 475kg sumo...

The only way to make everybody happy about sumo is diffrent total categories(sumo or conventional) and diffrent meets for them.

Both use the same muscles so regardless of range of motion both require high levels of strength and skill (ie form). Also isnt this why there are multiple deadlift records. I mean you have elephant bar deadlift, stiff bar deadlift, calibrated weights deadlift, platform deadlift (more range of motion), not to mention all the weight classes. Having a sumo deadlift record makes sense but hey my opinion and everyone has theirs. Hope people are all well!!

The issue is never the foot width. The ROM discrepancy with the sumo deadlift when people try to compare it to being just as hard as conventional is the grip difference. The narrow grip allows you to start further upright and the wide stance shortens the ROM. This combined makes it easier to achieve heavier lifts. Thor's wide stance but with the wide grip outside of his legs pulls his upper body almost completely forward while deadlifting. Sumo isn't a bad thing, it's just not the comparable to conventional when measuring strength.

The thing about Jamal is that he’s super strong with conventional too.

Thors conventional stance necessites wide grip on the bar instead of having arms hang straight down, which increases ROM immensely. Sumo pullers can have vertical arms without problem. Also, sumo pullers tend to use deadlift bar which further decreases ROM significantly.

They are very different pulls. I do them both. I pull pretty much the same weight on both stances...just my experience. Great video. Thanks for sharing!

Took a good hard look at my sumo and conventional and realized that due to my build, ROM difference is minimal. But difference in lower back pressure is HUGE and sumo feels way more comfortable.

Sumo vs conventional I train both because I want both to be strong I can never lift as much sumo as I can conventional Sumo cut at least 50kgs off my deadlift Some are build for sumo some are build for conventional Use what you are given as long as its in the rules

I’ve tried both sumo and conventional stance. I think training both stances can be beneficial. Once I was stuck at a particular weight and I switch to sumo and trained sumo for 5 weeks. After the 5 week I changed back to conventional I went for a 370 lbs conventional to a 435 conventional. I am a beginner powerlifter so it may have been noobie gains. I’ll let you be the judge.

Good points! Subscribed.

I really like this channel. Always to the point 😊👍

I don't care classify them as conventional and sumo world records. Don't matter this is petty to try to put them together.

See what Jamal can pull conventional

The measurable difference between sumo and conventional is how much your knees need to bend to start pulling. Measure the knee angle in your sumo stance, then lift the bar untill you get the same knee angle on conventional. It's true that it still takes a loot of strength to pull those weights, I'm not calling them weak at all, but the sumo stance does have advantages that the slimmer lifters can use. Big heavy lifters with big guts probably can't get comfortably into position. I've seen joke deadlifts, like really short people doing sumo and getting like 20 degrees of knee flection at the start, which is dumb since the knee is pretty much already locked up, after that you only see the back getting straight and that's it, superb leg strength not needed.

It depends on your leverages, I'm, for instance, much weaker in sumo compared to conventional (sumo- 425, conv- 495)

The rationalizations are strong with this one.

There's nothing wrong with sumo, but they're different in execution & how they use certain parts of your body. I can definitely see why people generally get annoyed by sumo pullers that compete against conventional pullers. But then we have the issue with limb length etc, so i understand your point.

I want this guy to try to defend the sumo broken back bench press!!!!😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Deadlift is all about body type more than any other lifts. Well, it benefits the most than any other lift. I have short arms and have to bend way down to be able to grab the bar. This makes my deadlift very difficult but my bench press is great.

@2:00 I don't agree with you. Jamal has his hands inside of those 50% while Thor has to have his hands outside of those 38%. I don't think sumo is cheating but stop try to make it like sumo isn't advantageous over conventional.

3:29 Pretty sure that's a joke about the exact point you're addressing...

Is sumo better for people who are strong squatters?

it depends how you are built, im 5'6 with long legs and sumo feels so much better on my low back and i can pull more weight, i switched recently and i love it

I still cant stand sumo lol

Well, if sumo is so much easier, why are not every singel powerlifting doing it insted of conventional?? **EDIT** Yes, I know that for some people, sumo is easier just like for some people conventional is easier. There is not one answer for everyone. Please know your facts before you say that I'm wrong. For example, look at the men's 74kg class, 45% of the lifter chose to lift conventional because they are stronger that way, and don't get me started on women's powerlifting 72kg, 75% lift conventional. So I call BS on everyone saying that sumo is easier for everyone.

When I deadlift the bar hits my balls, or just below if the bar is slipping a bit. The same for both Eddie and Thor. Most of the sumo deadlifts I see are just past the knee, for pretty much anyone. I've never done a sumo deadlift, and won't say the people that do it are weak or whatever, because they are not. I tried it once and it was really odd, didn't like it. But the range of motion, or work (potential energy difference) done in sumo is less. I think it's awkward and doesn't look nice, conventional just looks harder and a more proper way to lift something off the ground. It's unappealing to most people and doesn't do any good for powerlifting in my opinion, makes it an even more niche sport.

For me sumo and conventional are the same just the lockout is harder on conventional but with sumo it is harder to get the bar off the floor

Last I knew, a person checking their sumo PR versus their conventional PR generally has a higher sumo PR. If that's wrong then so be it, but otherwise that proves sumo is *relatively* easier than conventional. From strengthlevel.com, standards for beginner, novice, intermediate, advanced, elite below. 200 lb bw conventional: 219 289 373 467 567 200 lb bw sumo: 242 318 408 509 616

Hey, instead of just focusing on foot placement, sumo is easier because the pull point is more narrow...allowing the bar to flex more. By the time it begins to break the ground, BOOM near lockout

They should set a limit as to how far you can have your feet apart on sumo. Just like how they limit how wide of a grip you have on bench.

What deadlift is best for muscle building? I do RDLs, should i add deficit DLs or snatch DLs?

if 2 people got the same PR in DL, but one of them is sumo than for me more impressive is conventional lifter. AMEN

Two totally different lifts. Each style should have their own record. End of argument.

Exactly.. now all we need is a top level competitor from sumo to do his own sumo p.r in the conventional form.. that should shut all the haters.. anybody up for the challenge?

The angles in knee that you started off in sumo position and conventional position are different, and it doesn't take a genius to figure out which one is easier to lock.

having a wide convetional stance means you lose a lot of rom from the hands.in sumo tha hands are in line with the shoulders so you get the less rom possible,stance width isnt everything

Sumo is what we call "not a deadlift"

I’d like to see Thor do a proper heavy sumo pull. The shit is hard for me to get into and I’m a flexible 19 yo wrestler/lifter. When I learned sumo enough I was able to add 75lbs to my deadlift in like 3 weeks though

I love Sumo. Looks great, feels great! I'm not going to say that it doesn't count but both trained on a proportionate lifter, sumo is more "mechanically advantageous". Look at the moment arm. Is it easier to hold a book directly above your shoulder or with your arm stretched out to the side? *For reference I am actually a conventional puller which doesn't help my case lol