Favourite comment from Kirioth's live stream was: "I like what they're selling me, but they're selling it to me so badly I hate it"

The reason Khorgos Khul is having so much trouble ascending is that he always rolls 8's on the Eye of the Gods table.

"Sigmar lied", listen lady, Sigmar never told anyone that you people get to be immortal with no consequences forever. Never once was he like "yolo, don't worry about it".

Time for a wall of text because I know no other way. First, the entire thing worked very well for me sitting at home, but I hope they learn that it is possible to do a live show that is then different from the reveal show they do afterwards for the online audience. Second, don't ever do a new edition reveal without models again. Ever. Even if you just show us the bird-mount Stormcast and the rat-mount Skaven, give us *something* to sink our teeth into with our friends until Monday when you drop the first article. They should know by now no one wants to talk about Dawnbringers VI until the first article hits, they want to talk about what the new edition is bringing (and that includes models.) Third, be just a touch more overt. Call it an index. We're all adults. Don't dance around it because you don't want people to be mad that they're losing their books or whatever. Saying things like "the rules and warscrolls will be available for free to download when 4th edition releases" is great, but say that once you overtly tell everyone you're indexing the armies. It is fine, trust me. Fourth, give us just a touch of insight on the way we'll see games play. They mentioned cards for Spearhead, but are we also doing cards for matched play like they do in 40k or are we going to continue to see battle packs like we've received in past editions of AoS? When they talk about revisiting stats, are they talking about going to comparative stats (S vs T) or are we talking about removing the creep we've seen on the hit/wound/rend/save? I know they want to leave some of this stuff to show off later, but I guarantee there will be a bunch of vocal doom-and-gloom types out there or people getting their hopes up over nothing, and that could be nipped in the bud straight away. Finally, just tell us you have finally put together terrain rules that people will actually want to use. This is really the most important step you can take with AoS 4th.

Looking forward to the 36 hour battletome review for…every army at once.

The WarCom article mentions that the indexes will include "battle traits, subfactions, enhancements, spell lores, and warscrolls". That's actually more than 40k (10e absolutely gutted magic/psychic), which is kinda funny.

I didn't even see Ninjon and the guys back there for a solid 5 minutes

I expected all those guys behind you to start singing 😂

What occurred to me when watching the trailer was "oh shit Sigmar lied about them being heroes stolen from death, maybe they're all converted chaos warriors?" And then we got the lamest of lame reveals. Really kind of soured the whole trailer. Stormcast moaning about having it better than anyone else in the mortal realms lol

Pretty sure the big lighting bolt guy is two dudes in a trench coat and I gotta say….. I’m here for it lol completely ridiculous

Those new dwarf models are pretty!❤

He did stress *limited* USRs, which I think is good if we all are on the same page about what that means. He specifically mentioned like Champs and banners are all the same now. Seems promising.

If they colour code they will need to be intelligent around colour blindness so the same info is available in other ways, not JUST the colour. Or even just someone printing with a black+white printer!

It was a great show to watch from home, in bed, on my laptop. I loved the reveals!!! Lots of stuff I want to buy. Excited to see the new rules for 4th ed AoS.

The 40k indexes were a disaster at release. Win rates ranged from 80% to 25%. Not only that, but the quality of the faction rules from a “flavor” perspective was pretty hit and miss. Hopefully the AoS team has done a better job.

Ive been on the edge of jumping from WarCry to AoS.. maybe this will be the time. So.. sylvaneth, skaven, or nighthaunt 🤔

The Stormcast in the trailer look indistinguishable from the other 500 models they already have. Would have been nice to get a different starter box faction for once. For example, Cities of Sigmar would have been appropriate.

Buttons ARE fun!

I most liked the idea that they are creating more differentiation in the stats of different species.

Great review. Thank you:) really looking forward to new AOS now. I never had any idea what stormcast eternals were about before I saw that trailer, I just always thought they looked like a 5 year olds action toy. It will still take me a long time to be convinced and having started the hobby in the 80s i may not have time...

Just got here from finishing the live reveal. I had the same reaction to the Necromunda reveal that you did Vince lol.

The non-reveal reveal show

Looks like I'm taking all the dorky halberds off my unpainted Chaos Warriors lol. I vaguely remember Vince's quote during the StD army book review "Halberds may be slightly better, but I would never play them that way" 😂

I would look at 40ks indexes and the codexes. A lot of the 40k detachments have roots in the 9th edition Armies of Renown so perhaps the current AoS Armies of Renown might give you hints as to what can be expected.

Abraxia is riding a Deathclaw from Fallout.

I have mixed feelings about AoS getting an index-based overhaul. But as you said, the current dev team seems really strong. Them building a whole new system from the ground up rather than modifing the existing one will probably lead to a better outcome.

Hopefully they write explanations of the USRs in cursive anytime they have empty space on the warscrolls.

I wanted it so bad to be from a cities perspective and it be like "sigmar lied, rats are real" 😂

I hit the like button and my dad said he was proud of me

As someone who struggled with third edition all along i am ofc excited for all of this, cant come soon enough. Warcry and Underworlds looks great all round - dwarfs are a little bittersweet because dispossessed got some great new models but i think they're being removed back to old world lol. Pioneer dwarfs for Kill team is the first team to ever get my attention for that game, if i can face learning shapes instead of numbers.... Loved the cinematic, seeing AOS brought to life like that and witnessing her degradation into ruination was just awesome.....Overall i thought was a great reveal.

I'm excited for the new WarCry warbands, even if we don't play often. If the new Spearhead mode for AoS is actually a complete game mode, and 4th is faster and more streamlined, I may actually dive it for the first time as well.

Was waiting for my 40k Ork Codex. Doh.

Hope everyone has fun. Hope to some day be able to go to adepticon.😢

When do we see the models on the box? First warhammer gw open in mid may? No warhammer fest this year( april last year, where 40k box was revealed)

Not gonna lie, this kinda pissed me off. All i wanted to see was some skaven and got nothing. Don't get me wrong a COUPLE of these models were cool, but not nearly enough to make up for it.

Hopefully the Spearhead boxes will be better balanced than the Combat Patrol sets. The biggest failure of the 40k Combat Patrol was the terrible balance of the existing boxes.

It's nice they hired a low-rent Witcher to present the few models.

Weirdly enough, for a big reveal show to not show a lot off, I actually wanted about half of it which has never happened. Usually its 1 or 2 things I want or nothing at all. The reveals had me itching to finally jump on AoS. I cant believe I called the Warcry reveals right on the nose, even guessing it was a mix of revenants and dyrads and the OBR warband being animal themed. Also did GW just casually reveal updated Dryads??? I was already planning to start Sylvaneth next year but with that dope Warcry Warband, thats starting now. Also that Lady of Ruin is gorgeous!! StD has been knocking at my door since Eternus got revealed. I may have to jump on that dawnbringer box to get me started.

The format for this reveal show they did was obnoxious. It felt like they did not want us to see the things they were revealing and they lingered way too long and not on the models they were trying to push. I actually stopped watching because I felt like they were wasting my time. Highlight of this nonsense was them talking about the tree scenery thing and the panning shot of it was of it in the background and obscured.

For the last two weeks I was so hyped for the reveal show- I bothered my wife about it constantly counting down the days. I'm a bit disappointed to say the least. I agree with Marty who I think said he appreciates them trying something new- but this ain't it. The nail for me was the Dawnbringers bit. They spent all that time talking about Mrs. Varanguard- and then they had what felt like a 10 minute video for Dawnbringers book, followed by a 10 minute interview on Dawnbringers just saying all the same things. Dawnbringers should have been a 20 second trailer and a 3 minute interview, especially following the model reveal. The interviews themselves are a great idea but went on for ages. The point of having them should be to edit them down to the good bits, and not as you said micro-details about the lore or mechanics of the thing as that can be saved for the articles or whatever. Phil seems like a cool dude but I feel like I've heard his voice enough last night for a lifetime. FEC warband looks like it was designed prior to the rest of the range refresh for FEC, CoS models just look stupid imo but if people like them then I'm happy for them. OBR warband is a letdown; just give me a unit of bone dogs and bone birds. Sylvaneth seem cool. That terrain piece is so god awful please move Warcry to anywhere that doesn't have meat trees. And, of course, no 4th edition model reveals. The trailer went so hard I sent it to people who don't play AoS (in hopes to get them to try it), but it felt awful at the end to not even get a *teaser* of a model or two. This was the one interview I actually enjoyed because they gave some good information without spending too long on any given part. 40k 10th edition USRs are very manageable so I'm hoping its a similar number for AoS4. Overall, 3/10 show. I came in with high expectations and left feeling empty. Thanks for this show Vince and co- made me feel pretty validated after a disappointing event.

still not a fan of indexes, but they're coming. Indexing reminds me of a software development video by "uncle bob martin" about "The big Redesign in the Sky". Its an interesting video that probably applies to non-software projects as well, but the takeaway is that its often not worth the effort. The reason is that unless you've addressed the issues that led to your problems in the first place you're going to make the same mistakes again, and if you do address them there shouldn't be anything stopping you from fixing what you already had. I'm also very apprehensive of USRs, to the point where I think any of them might be too many. For better or worse its going to be exciting, but I would've preferred to continue with slow incremental improvements.

Okay before even hitting play on this video I'm going to say I'm so hyped and excited for the upcoming Story Time. I bet book 6 of Dawnbringers will bring us so much "Nah dawg!"

I'm glad USR are coming. Having a different charge rule for every single stupid cavalry unit in AoS is so confusing

Drop the Dwarf lord into AoS 5 years ago with some dispossessed rules and I would have been stoked. Now this feels like Nintendo reselling old games on a new console.

@Vince Venturella Do you ever go to Origins? I was thinking about starting a miniature painting competition/display in the Sumer of 25 but have no idea how to do it. Would love to chat about it!

Cool as always. 👍

A problem I had with the format was how they would often repeat information to the viewer. I heard lore for Abraxia's spear like 3 times too many and I also got information that means nothing to me. Like when they casually mentioned drawing cards in Spearhead. I had no idea what cards they are talking about and got no explanation. I had to hear from a 40k player what the cards could mean. For a presentation that lasted more than an hour I learned very little compared to other reveals.

i hope the new edition is more about fighting and less about arbitrary point control

Off topic maybe, but my wife and I are back in the states after living abroad for a while. We want to get back into AoS but don’t really have any local community we know of. I know Tyler is in MO, do any of you know of a good store or group for the St. Louis area?

Let me tell you about this spear though…

After playing 10th ed 40k this sounds very similar and I'm worried.

The preview show might not have worked in a live room environment. And there could maybe have been a few more model shots (they have the warcom articles for that though) But I thought as a streamed video presentation it was the most polished they’ve done to date. It actually felt like it was coming from a big corporation and not just duct taped together.

We're getting indexes. 😬

All I heard was plastic knights for admech

I wish that the index battle scrolls were the final product for 4th edition. I think a more static game system would be very beneficial for AoS, and dislike the constant churn of newer, better books being released constantly for three years.

GWs lack of clear communication and crumb trail tactic of info really bites them all the time. When you dont give clear consistent info, the fans have to speculate and this is usually bad because they assume the worst conspiracies or they over hype themselves on their own fantasy booking and get disappointed when its not true. Just give us all the new model pics and rules updates and release schedules needed on a regular interval and be transparent when theres supply issues. Thats all we need.

I feel like the movie is a great way for them to continue the changes they previously made to the competitions where they keep the public well away from the staff and creators to limit conversations and perform information control... This is bad in almost every way for the health of the game, its creators, and its communities. And not a little bad, but very bad. They need to pull out of this death spiral before they slam into the trust thermocline that a lot of other gaming companies are charging not towards but through at this point.

What about that SPEAR?!

Expectations out of whack for how far out from release. Expectations of seeing everything when nothing is close to release.

They did say we'r introducing a Minimal Usiversial rules system. So I don't think we'r going to get as annoying like Whfb/ToW, I'm guesesing we'll just see some core stuff like Champion, Ward save, and so on, most abilities will be written out from what I'm guessing, just those things that 70% of the scrolls already have incommon.´ And I'm guessing it's to save printspace on warscrolls, avoiding like 1 whole paragraph on almost EVERY unit for Champion for example, so I'm guessing champions will be simplified too, like ALL of them give +1 attack instead of sometimes +1 to hit.

10 rumor engines revealed. Not including any from 40k

I feel like GW has created this artificial environment for themselves where they feel like they have to constantly push out mass quantities of new stuff. As a result everything feels rushed. A new edition reveal with no new minis, the old world, and most of the “new” chaos stuff is repackaged. I like a lot of what they put out but they need to slow down

Love the WW community, like a little island of maturity in a sea of internet whining. Hyped for the new edition.

A bit disappointed in where the plot seems to be going. Sigmar does rhe meme and smashes the New Chamber button again. The Skaven plot... "Vermindoom" 🙄 can we save rhe McGuffin plotlines where nothing really happens for 40K?

Incredibly lame - as if you don’t show any skaven. Too much focus on the random box games

Agree that the format was kinda lame. Not enough model shots, though maybe that was deliberate to get people to go to warhammer community. I dont get the hype for Spearhead. I live in a metropolitan area of around 2.2 million, we have two GWs, four established FLGS, and I have never seen a Combat Patrol RTT or event (plenty of escalation leagues though). I dont see the new FOMO Army books (like the latest Kroot one) being advertised as Combat Patrol compatible (which seems like would be a good marketing hook - first chance to get new models, exclusive codex, cards, and a Combat patrol- all in one box!!!). And we heard the 'oh some people can stay in [small format game]' before when they Pitched Meeting engagements (and Combat Patrol). It's just going to be a lot of noise in the initial marketing push then quietly soft squatted.

Was in the live room, this was pretty disappointing. Just watching a KZfaq video could have been done in my hotel room. No audience interaction. No Q&A. It was a bit of a let down honestly.

Bisexual lighting, Vince is HassanAbi head lol

Meh

I think the format is fine but the execution was awful. If they want this style they need to be more efficient, 0 waffle, and the ‘host’ shouldn’t be prerecorded so they can respond to the audience vibes

Terrible format. Yayy old world

🤔Somebody at -GW- *_Warhamper Inc. is gettin' _*LAZY._* (* & I don't mean the rank & file -=Cough=- Past Grocery Executives now on the Board)