Stannis said that siding with Robert over his duty to the king was "the hardest decision he ever had to make." The fact that even Stannis was against King Aerys should tell you how awful he was.

"would you stay loyal to the mad king?" "I lived in Chigago for 10 years"

GRRM put more thought into this single answer than D&D did for season 8.

The war was justifiable, the ending wasn't and Ned Stark knew it

Aerys called for the heads of Robert and Ned. This followed Aerys’s torture of Rickard and Brandon Stark. Sounds like a reasonable rebellion to me.

would you stay loyal to the targeryens? GRRM: well you see, there are two types of writers the architects and the gardeners

If my beloved sister went missing and I was told she was kidnapped by the prince (who was married and had his own kids) and taken as prisoner and raped repeatedly, then had my father and brother murdered by the King brutally and without legitimate cause and then received a raven from the king saying that I was to come to king’s landing and face punishment for the crime of treason, I would be like WTF, especially because House Stark faithfully served House Targaryen without issue or scandal for 300 years and suddenly my father was gone, my brother was gone and my sister is off somewhere getting raped by the prince. I would absolutely be like fuck the king and go to war

When you realize how thoughtful he is it’s very easy to understand why he’s not finished the books yet.

“Is violence ever justified to oppose evil in the world? Is so to what extent...?” He states it so cleanly.

As a writer you never want to kill the enigma the audience has by giving absolute answers, you always want to indulge them into thinking about your stories more and more

Aerys: *strangles Bran’s uncle and burns his grandfather to death* Bran: *is literally omniscient* Also Bran: RoBeRt’S ReBeLlIoN wAs BuIlT oN a LiE

“Would you stay loyal to the mad king” “What was Aragorns tax policy?”

From the Stark’s perspective, it would be justified, especially after the liege and heir were tortured and murdered. Not even Jamie Lannister believed those men should have died.

I’m thinking Ned was the one asking the huge amount of ethical questions about the war I think Robert was more like “FUCK YA!!! LET GO TO BATTLE AND FIGHT IN A WAR! WHOOOOOO!!!

The Mad King demanded the heads of Ned and Robert from Jon Arryn. That is a great reason to go to war against him.

Hopefully he will get a lot of writing done in quarantine

Glad you're still posting Aeg

Just listening to this man talk, I can see now why almost everything he writes is gold. If you are an armchair historian, or just a basic history nerd; the works of this man are great delights that I look forward to exposing myself to more.

I think GRRM does a really good job of leaving it to the reader to decide what was and wasn't justified. Not only Robert's Rebellion but the Targaryens conquering the seven kingdoms, and Dany's conquering of Slavers Bay. Good came out of all of them, but so did horror, bloodshed, and the deaths of thousands.

Poor Brendan Fish with his normal name getting roasted within 3 seconds of the video getting started 😂

When he says he doesn’t often like when writers give answers because he finds them often too simple and disappointing I can’t help but think about Season 8 The way they handled bran in S7 and 8 is appalling, the way they handled the Night King and Wight Walker storyline is incredibly disappointing, FAR too simple and not only simple, but we only got one episode of them being a threat until they were just forgotten about.... It’s such a shame, the world and characters and writing was all so deep and rich and then just devolved into a shell of its former self...what a shame

I suppose if you are to ask if Robort' s Rebellion was justified, you have to ask if any rebellion in history was justified.

5:35 GRRM: Robinhood, King Arthur Anchor: Spiderman, Superman GRRM: uuhh... right

Lucifer Means Lightbringer got a question in. He's prob one the best channels covering ASOIAF

“When a government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it...”

I would say Robert, Ned, and Jon were justified in rebelling against the Mad King. Lyanna was believed to have been kidnapped by the Crown Prince, the king locks up and murders the family who want to know what's going on and then calls for the head of two people who did nothing wrong. I also don't think it's just about Rhaegar and Lyanna for Robert. Considering that Ned is his best friend and future in-law as well as what happened with his parents, I'd think then calling for his head is like "come and get it chump!:

I feel there's still too much missing info on Rhaegar to decide if he was worth supporting & still staying loyal to the Targaryens for. Rape allegations aside, he humiliated his wife at the tourney & then left her & his children alone with the mad king to go off and be with Lyanna. And Lyanna was only 14 when grown & married Rhaegar took an interest in her. We aren't even sure what his motivations were, lust/love or some weird prophecy fulfillment, but neither is really a good look for a prince who would be king. He insulted & enraged the North & Dorne & the Stormlands, and at a time when the realm needed a steady hand more than ever with his father's increasing psychoticness. Rhaegar could have been the man to support to keep the realm at peace, but despite all the flattering things said about him by those close to him and the attempts to clear his name of the rape story, he still made very questionable decisions & who he really was or what his goals were is still very murky.

Was it justified? Well... - The crown prince to the Iron Throne (seemingly) abducted one of the children of his future vassals and took her to parts unknown without consulting anyone. - When the (understandably) angry and pissed off Warden of the North and his future heir came down to the capital to have words and attempt to reason with the king about the actions of his son, the fucking lunatic denied them the right to a fair trial, burned the Lord Paramount alive with wildfire, cooked him alive, while his son was placed in a torture device that slowly strangled him as he attempted to reach a sword that was out of reach that could have allowed him to save his father from the hellish fate of being burned alive until he died. - THEN the Mad King demands the heads of the son of the vassal who he had just burned alive and the head of the kid who was betrothed to the woman that his son (seemingly) abducted. The protector of the kids (Jon Arryn) says "Fuck that." and decides to *protect* the kids that he was sworn to defend and raise his banners to fight against the obvious tyrant on the throne. - NEXT, this leads to a civil war in which the kids who the king wanted dead are simply fighting for their lives against the throne, and thousands die. - AND THEN when the "perfect" son of the Mad King turns up again, he does not pursue any actions against his (clearly fucking insane) father, and still decides to fight against the kids that his Father wanted dead. He fights dies in the Battle on the Trident, because literally everyone overestimated how great he actually was, and despite the guys obsession with prophecy, he got his prick bit off and a war hammer to the chest for his trouble. - FINALLY, in one last act of spite and hatred, the Mad King decides to take his subjects (which he was supposed to protect, by the law of Westeros) with him to the grave by burning his entire capital city to the ground. He does this out of a mad belief that his bloodline combined with the blood of innocents would allow him to come back from death itself as an unholy dragon that would have the ability to burn his enemies to ash and dust. This doesn't happen, because someone on his side actually got a clue for once, and kills him like the mad dog he really was. I'd say that Robert's Rebellion was completely justified. Fuck the Targaryens.

Whoa, tough one....If I'm remembering right, there is somewhere a suggestion that Rhaegar was planning to gather support for removing his father from power, at the time of the Harrenhal tournament...I would certainly have supported him. As to the actual rebellion, we have to remember that the issues were bigger than the Robert-Lyanna-Rhaegar thing....It was actually Jon Arryn whose decision cast the die for war (if I remember rightly): he was put in the impossible position of having to surrender his Ned and Robert to Aerys or to rebel. Given that it was clear by that point that Aerys could murder anyone at anytime out of paranoid fancy....What would anyone do in Jon Arryn's place? No easy answers as George says.

I'm also a history buff and he's absolutely right! I've been looking into Alfred the Great and his children Edward the elder and Athelsten the lady of Mercia recently in my study of the formation of Scotland and England. And most historians have different opinions. The fact that Alfred was the youngest son of King Aethelwulf, and not expected to be king of wessex is not in dispute. Nor is his role in setting the foundations for the formation of England. But his son Edward's achievements are overlooked probably because of his sister. In the 9th century a woman ruler of a saxon kingdom and the fact that she was an accomplished warrior and led men into battle is unique, and most historians concentrate on her, and her many battles with the vikings, and diminish Edward. But it was Edward's son Athelstan who was the first king of all England. It's also annoying that few historians mention that two kingdoms were cross border. Both Strathclyde which was incorporated into the kingdom of Scotland and Northumberland both included large parts of modern day Scotland and England. Northumberland especially is seen as an English saxon kingdom but very few historians include that it went as far north as the firth of forth and included Scotlands capital Edinburgh. Or that Strathclyde included large parts of modern north east England.

To be fair the Targaryeans killed two Stark family members and thought another had been kidnapped and rape. I mean...who stays loyal after that? At that point the leader has broken trust first.

Hell yeah LML got a question answered by the man himself

I hope george is hiding in a bunker somewhere. For safety of course, not because I want him to get writing. Ok maybe that's why.

YES, IT WAS. Lyanna's feelings of disgust for Robert were irrelevant, because her betrothal to him was a legally binding promise between families and she didn't have her father's permission to break it off. Rhaegar greatly slighted the Houses Stark and Baratheon, two families who value honour above all else, when he spirited Lyanna away, and so, Robert was completely entitled to his rage. However, the abduction wasn't enough to incite the Rebellion. What happened next (The Mad King killing Brandon and Rickard Stark, and calling for Robert's head in response to the demands for accountability from Rhaegar)..... DID.

That man is a genius. So well-read, articulate and cultivated.

Hey, it's BryndenBFish Why even ask, Jeff, you have the book alreaady.

This guy is a genius when it comes to story telling, his attention to detail is amazing

I hope he’s drinking pure health potions... don’t die before finishing the series, George!

"would you stay loyal to the mad king?" "I lived in chicago for many years"

Those few dislikes must be loyalists of the mad king.

" The personal always informs the political."

It’s truly lovely to be reminded of why I have always loved A Song if Ice and Fire so much. With the near decade since the release of the last book, and the lingering bad taste of the last 3 or 4 seasons of the show, I had grown somewhat disenchanted with the series. But George is not only a master of his craft, but a thoughtful and intelligent commenter on politics and history. That’s what makes the series so good for me. It’s not just the fantastic writing and the engaging characters, but the nuanced, multi-layered, and complex history and cultures of Westeros and Essos that makes it all so believable. When Robert claimed the Iron Throne, it was nothing like “The Return of the King.” It was an ambitious military leader who wielded a great deal of power seizing a great deal more. As George says, the Mad King was obviously a dumpster fire of a ruler and the only real way to get rid of him was to overthrow him. But personal motivations among Robert, Ned, and Jon Arryn were what ultimately triggered the rebellion, motivations that the small folk could not have cared less about. And besides, even though dumping the Mad King was good for pretty much everyone, was all the death and destruction it took to overthrow him worth it? These are not easy questions. Plus, and I really do love this, George acknowledges that we interpret these events with our own value systems, which were not the pseudo European-Medieval values of Westeros. Just fantastic stuff

wow, BryndenBFish AND LmL... this person knows how to pick questions. Wonder if she knows who they are

Idk if it's said enough so I'll say it once more... this man is amazing to listen to. So calming, so witty, so clever, so insightful. He's one of my wise old men like from a fairy-tale, the ones you fall silent for to hear speak, the ones who earn respect. Him and David Attenborough are my adoptive wise old men granddads.

Stannis rebelled, so yes.

Well didn't aerys call for the head of Ned and Robert for no reason? Didn't he burn alive a high lord? And made the heir of that lord kill himself trying to save his father? Didn't Raeghar take off with a 14 year old girl? Regardless of them loving each other I think that yes the rebellion was justified

The executions of Brandon and Richard were evil. The slaughter of the Targaryen children was inhumane. The Mountain is a Knight, and the Hound isn’t. It is simply a twisted world.

The kidnap of Lyanna and killing of Brandon alone didn't need to create a war necessarily. But when you kill a sitting Lord Paramount and the heirs of numerous houses at once, that just invites a rebellion. At that point, where's the limit to Aerys' desire for blood? The entire Northern aristocracy would have feared he would keep killing them, they had to rebel at that point.

Looking back, I'd say the biggest mistake Ned, Robert and Jon made was not putting laws in place to allow for a monarch to be lawfully removed from power should they become as corrupt as the Mad King. They had just won a war, but they didn't take steps to safeguard Westeros from it happening again.

If it wasn't for Cersei, Robert's reign would've been long and prosperous. Robert was a warrior, not a king and he knew it, hence why he left rulling to Jon Arryn which was smart and fair. The Mad King was about 38 years old when Jaime killed him and still had decades of rulling left. He was about to cripple 2 if not 3 great houses by killing their lord paramounts and the heirs to those kingdoms (he killed Rickard and Brandon leaving North in the hands of the innexperienced Ned, though Ned came through and became a good ruler. He called for Robert Baratheon's head which would leave Stormlands in hands of Stannis who was even younger then Robert- about 13/14 at the time. He killed Jon Arryn's heir and that would cause a problem for the line of succesion of the Vale. He probably would've called for Lord Hoster Tully's head given that he was allied with the North and that would leave the Riverlands with a 6/7 year old as their Lord paramount (we know the Blackfish was a rebel and I don't see him being Lord Paramount & making marriage alliances). He was holding Elia Martell of Dorne hostage which was the only reason Dorne didn't ally with the Rebels. He had ticked of Tywin Lannister by stealing his heir Jaime which was his ultimate undoing.) As for Rheagar, he proved himself an uncompetent and irresponsible ruler by running away with Lyanna Stark to make the third head of the dragon (he was obsessed with prophecies, again not an admirable trait for someone who was destined to rule)with a pretty teenage girl while leaving his heir, his younger brother(who was second in line after Rhaegar's son), his mother & not to mention his wife (whom he dishonoured in front of all 7 kingdoms at Harrenhal to gaing Lyanna's favour, causing the anger of 3 great families) and 2 year old daughter in the hands of a known madman who held absolute power as king at the time. Lyanna was about 15, give or take and although she was as selfish as Rheagar I don't believe she would've married him if he didn't to an extent manipulate her, given her disgust of Robert and his whoring ( I don't get how sge could be with a married man willingly, but hey, hypocrisy at its finest). I don't think Rhaegar was the perfect prince everyone made him out to be. I'll give him credit, we know he tried to put his father down with a secret council in Harrenhal,but the nobles wouldn't have agreed because he had no army of his own and they would've been named traitors if they supported him, so he *failed*.A rebellion was bound to happen, sooner or later. The Westerosi have always seen Targaryens as foreigners, especially Notheners, because the Dragonlords just took over their land, causing hundreds of thousands of people to die (e.g. The field of Fire) and they always saw themselves as godlike creatures that were better than the Westerosi nobles and folk, because of their Valyrian blood. In my opinion, it's better that Robert's rebellion happened, rather than having a full-out destruction of the continent and having way more people die by bottling the rage of the lords and ladies over the next few years/decades. I think that a Targaryens are just not meant to sit on the Irone Throne if they don't want to ally with other families through mariage (like some of the best Targaryen rulers have done) just to keep their bloodlines pure, which is one of the causes for their madness (again not all Targaryens were mad).

good to see some posts from you recently. was missing these.

I hope we get a prequel series that shows Robert’s Rebellion. Would be awesome to see that era

Authors/creators that like to make their audience wrestle with the questions are the best

That’s so cool that she asked a question from LmL.

I could listen to George all day, such an interesting and eloquent man.

He's built such a realised world that it can be discussed like this stuff really happened

Look how many people are starving under Joffrey and Tommen reign. Robert wasted all the money left from Aerys and Tywin.

It was for sure Justified. At first The Mad King's Son, Rhaegar was thought to have kidnapped Lyanna. At first They demanded justice and for her to be safely returned. Aerys' reaction was to kill the lord of Winterfell and his heir. That's reason enough to say 'fuck this you're going down'. in my opinion. But oh no, Aerys didn't stop there. He then called for Robert and Ned's heads and asked their foster father, Jon Arryn, to kill them and send him their heads, yes 100% if not 200% justified because at that point there's no going back, at that point they're defending themselves.

What I love about his answer is how it completely relates to Ned's identity as a whole, as well as his journey in Book 1. It is very clear that Robert wanted to fight, and that while Lyanna seems to him to be the reason why, he is actually looking for a scrap. And Jon Arryn fought because those two where his sons, in his eyes. Whether or not it was right, it is not important. So, in the end, the decision to fight this particular war, is a question about Ned and his family and his honor. And when he sees that Lyanna has had a son with Rhaegar, and she makes him promise to protect him, he realizes how senseless this whole endeavor also was. He will have to protect the son of the man who apparently abducted his sister, who is also the grandson of the man who murdered his father and brother. And all of this resulted in the murder of those two small children, Aegon and Rhaenys. This is why Ned's discovery of Cersei's infidelity and her offspring's origin is hard for him, and why he decides not to partake in the attempt to murder pregnant Daenerys, or not to mistreat Theon for that matter: because he knows that it is his duty to protect Jon, as an innocent "child", of the brutality of their feudal code on blood. Framing Ned as just an "honorable" guy, as a lot of people do, is wrong: he is not Stannis. He is a loving father and husband, and as such, extends that code to his behavior overall, to his detriment since his mercy will never be enough for Cersei, for the Lannisters in general.

His answer is why this book series is amazing

"Gods, I could write then."

The thing I love about these stories is that we can have debates about these things as if they were historical events

His answer is fantastic, very well thought out

I think his answer to the first question, took me by surprise on how interesting his answer was. It seemed to be so overly elaborate but ultimately lead to a great answer in my opinion. It was a very underrated way to answer it

Dammit I wish he would finish The Winds of Winter… But it is just so hard to be mad at George. He’s just such a likable person and so intelligent 🤷‍♂️🧏‍♂️

There was going to be a rebellion no matter which way it went. By keeping their relationship quiet, Rhaegar & Lyanna, caused two major offenses to two different great Houses that would’ve been settled by nothing less than war. The Starks believed her kidnapped against her will and demanded justice, only for the head of their House AND his heir to be killed. The Martells would’ve been greatly offended if Rhaegar set aside his marriage to Elia for Lyanna and would’ve started a war for her.

I really like understanding the Minds of the Greatest Writers and Authors. I learn so much.

Ever heard of the concept of Occam's Razor? Sometimes the most simple answer is the right one. IE: Aerys dug his own grave.

Honestly, I would have liked to have seen an HBO miniseries with Robert’s Rebellion. They already had a solid actor cast as young Eddard Stark, they had a Lyana Stark, they had Rhaegar Targaryen, the Mad King etc., and all that from Bran’s flashbacks...sorry Three-Eyed Raven visions of the past. And Robert’s Rebellion is a complete story...unlike “A Song Of Ice And Fire”....whose last new addition...came out nine years ago, this April in 2011...

Shoutout to Lucifer Means Lightbringer! - 05:00

What a wonderfully thoughtful man.

Some of the hardest choices to make are ones that seem easy. Other people can and will keep information from you that would make a question harder for you to answer even if the information wouldn't flip you completely to the other side of the choice.

Is no one gonna talk about how Rickard Stark (Neds father) asked for a trial by combat? And he was granted a trial by combat He had his armour on and everything expecting to fight one of the kings guard Instead he was subdued and tied to a stake and aerys told him his opponent was "Fire" In that hall as Lord stark burned and Bryndan reached for the sword to save his father from the pain No lord or lady said a word Only the mad king laughed That alone shows you the entire realm was smelling war coming Even the kingsguard such as Arthur Dayne, gerald hightower and barriston selmy saw it as barbaric And they also stood guard outside aerys private chambers hearing him rape his wife every night and also her sobbing following the ordeal The dude deserved everything that happened to him Lyanna stark is one cold, arrogant and selfish bitch She destroyed so many lives because of "muh love" She criticised robert for not staying in 1 bed lol Lyanna cheated with a married man with 2 kids

These are the questions we re dealing with in 2020. What level of oppression deserves violence?

"The personal informs the political". Underrated truth.

1:40..hey! It's like late May 2020!

05:27 Sometimes, the table breaths. Pay attention 😂

BryndenBfish I love u dude! What a beautiful question

He is so humble honestly

Oh, my! Everyone and Everything is perfectly Colourcordinated in this one :)

Even if Lyanna and Rhaegar's relationship was legitimate, which it very well might not be (I think it was more of obsession/Stockholm syndrome fuelled relationship), still, both Aerys and Rhaegar deserved to die and lose their crown. Aerys because, I don't even need to say that, do I? And Rhaegar because he either didn't know Starks would come to Red Keep and his father would kill them, therefore he's unforgivably stupid, or he knew that and willingly let it happen, therefore he's directly responsible for their deaths, or he knew it and was just too much of a coward to do anything about it, therefore, he maybe shouldn't have do the whole kidnapping thing in the first place, if he was not ready to face the consequences.

I mean even if Ned and Robert didn't feel like starting a rebellion the Mad King still wanted them dead so they didn't have much of a choice.

What an incredible answer. Don't know what I expected.

I really like this interviewer. She doesn’t interrupt.

"There was an altercation in Vietnam" lol

Mad King, Executes family of Jon, Ned and Robert, then demands Ned and Robert's heads from the guy who's heir he just murdered. Aerys was fine with murdering a million innocent bystanders and was barely being restrained from destroying the realm. Yeah...gonna go out on a limb here and say that the Rebels were VERY justified.

Maybe this quarantine will get some new material out faster from this great author!

I think Martin touches on an important point here. I think if the question had been "Do you think Ned and Robert thought their rebellion was justified," he probably would have said yes. But that's not really a question we feel the need to ask -- it's tautological. His answer is very emblematic of the series as a whole. There are no definite or "true" answers, and that's more what the question was wanting. Does the author think the rebellion was justified? I'd argue he'd say that whether it was justified depends on who you ask. It depends on what boundaries you draw, what lines you won't cross as a person. Viserys would argue the rebellion was completely unjustified. Tywin would have his own opinions, but we might not take him at his word. I think he calls out that while we often read stories that give us clear-cut dilemmas where we can feel good about ourselves for siding with the "good guys", his story is far more complex in that manner, largely because he believes that in the real world, we don't get the luxury of knowing definitively whether or not the choices we made were "right".

The main problem with Robert’s Rebellion that makes it so morally grey is that it was ROBERT’s Rebellion. Robert was the last guy who should’ve been made king after the war. The war would be much less morally grey if it ended with someone like Jon Arryn or Ned Stark being given the crown. Sadly, Robert was the only war leader with Targaryen blood and was therefore the only candidate for the crown.

Given the alternative was execution (Aerys specifically wanted the heads of Robert AND Ned before they had done anything), I'd say it was. If your King is literally insane and has killed your family or threatened to have them killed - of course.

It's one thing to rebel against the tyranny of the mad king and another to put yourself on the throne. In history it's not uncommon to depose someone and have their son or another relative inherit immediately without necessarily killing the previous King e.g. the Glorious Revolution in the UK. Robert's claim was tenuous and predicated on destroying the Targaryens root and branch, which is unjust and set things up for the throne to be undermined in the future. Rhaegar was planning to do something to supplant his father, but he didn't reach out openly to the great lords or act decisively. It was in Rhaegar's hands in that moment at the tourny at Harrenhall to gather allies against his father, but instead he rode off with Lyanna and history swept out of his control. Bit sad that the conception of Jon Snow was probably the worst thing that could've possibly happened for that moment in history.

Was about to not click this video seeing it was 2 years old but then I remembered song of ice and fire only changes every 12 years

Why does it look like their table decoratives belong in a catholic church?

I don’t read the books but for the sake of the fans that do and the fans that were disappointed by the TV show’s ending I hope he can consolidate his last 2 books and finish the series

Oh shoot was that a question submitted by the KZfaqr David Lightbringer? Love his content

this guy writes like he talks -- builds on a story super fast, and actually tells the damn story super slow

The second question is that from the GoT KZfaqr with the same name?

Shout out to Lucifer Means Lightbringer. You and Quinn, keep up the great work!

I really like GRRM and am a fan of all his writings. He got really famous really fast largely due to HBO and to see the subtle changes in him are fascinating. He paid his dues for a sure.

Yoooo! This the one that David Lightbringer got his shoutout!!