Against the Odds: Torment of Hailfire (Games)

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Against the Odds: Torment of Hailfire (Games)

Рет қаралды 111,416

Күн бұрын

What are the odds of winning with Torment of Hailfire in Standard?Let's figure it out!
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Пікірлер: 263

@sccrstud92 7 жыл бұрын

Good players topdeck, great players bottomdeck.

@jdawgg904 7 жыл бұрын

43:00 just wow. This might be the greatest thing I have ever seen in a game of magic. I have no words.

@atmaximum 7 жыл бұрын

We just gotta thank Seth for providing such incredible situations

@RedBossTV 7 жыл бұрын

LIGHTNING HELIX!!

@kinkajuu1 7 жыл бұрын

so glad he didnt scoop early.

@imaginarymatter 7 жыл бұрын

Best... bottom deck(?) ever?

@k.d.c9526 7 жыл бұрын

I literally spent the next 2 minutes sayin ooooooooooh oooooooh oh my God.

@cluelesswonder912 7 жыл бұрын

43:25 That card is now a best friend. It pulled in the ultimate clutch. It just rose up out of your libray and said, "I've got this, bro."

@colinderue8095 7 жыл бұрын

He came

@Soulryu11 7 жыл бұрын

He conquered

@Pedro112X 7 жыл бұрын

Against the odds: "maybe I should have mulliganed" edition

@Taalanos 7 жыл бұрын

"If we draw a land we're in a good position......I'm losing because I didn't draw a land in the first 3 turns" How many times does this happen and do we think perhaps it's a problem?

@COZYTW 7 жыл бұрын

Perhaps splash green as mana fixing?

@woodenchessman2541 7 жыл бұрын

"What is on the bottom of the deck!? What is on the bottom of the deck!!?? OHH IT'S TORMENT OF HAILFIRE!!!! OH MY GOD!!! OHHHH MY GOD!!! Seth better known as Saffronolive is through to the finals!"

@xaviercarlson8038 7 жыл бұрын

WoodenChessMan I'm literally dead lmao

@Seldonlair 7 жыл бұрын

B/R Neheb, the Eternal with an afflict deck. Much more efficient than what you're trying to do. You're so focused on ramping to get the mana that you cannot deal with a lot of the opponent's board and force them to use their hands to react to your plays.

@BlaineTog 7 жыл бұрын

There's also a pretty neat interaction with Neheb where you cast Torment #1 pre-combat, swing, then cast Torment #2 post-combat with potentially an insane amount of mana.

@Hakokoro 7 жыл бұрын

IA_Seldon yeah it is not efficiente , it is against the odds

@Seldonlair 7 жыл бұрын

Building the Neheb deck is still an against the odds deck. This deck is just a: "Unless we do this one trick and it works without a counterspell, or unless they have too many creatures out, or unless their life is high enough, we're dead." There's one trick in the deck, no other method of attack. It's almost certainly going to fail 75% of the time. That's not against any odds, that's just planning for failure. The Neheb deck can activate Torment of Hailfire on turn 6 with around 7-9 mana depending on what afflict creatures you are smashing face with. Turn six, with only 5 lands in play, and 7-9 mana going directly into the X part of the spell. That's pressuring the opponent. This deck is just letting your opponent smack you around.

@Seldonlair 7 жыл бұрын

A better trick is to use Wildfire Eternal to free-cast Cut from Cut//Ribbons in combat (because it's a really rough choice between taking 4 Afflict and maybe letting a spell go off) and then post-phase cast Ribbons and dump the free mana into that. The build I made for the Neheb deck has four threats built into the deck (agro/afflict/Cut/ToH), any one of which can go active with or without Neheb seeing the board. Neheb is just a good win early/win harder method to force the issue by turn 6. Honestly I threw ToH into the deck to add in a second kill everything option and make sure I had something reliably in hand by turn 6. Cut//Ribbons is always the better choice between the two.

@HighlightTheWorld 7 жыл бұрын

can i see the list?

@Comedy7788 7 жыл бұрын

21:00 Cruel Reallity as an answer to the gods. Ironic

@Voidhawk42 7 жыл бұрын

They promised the mortals immortality, but could not save themselves.

@jakeduval-smith6140 7 жыл бұрын

Ironic

@Comedy7788 7 жыл бұрын

Have you heard the story of darth Kefnet the Wise?

@Arkanda003 7 жыл бұрын

like rain on your wedding day?

@Biospark88 7 жыл бұрын

I wonder if that was intentional? Mechanical flavor?

@beme5401 7 жыл бұрын

Against the odds vids are the best

@dantrick7216 7 жыл бұрын

I used to feel sympathy when yiu kept a hand going "and if we just draw that one/two land/s we'll be fine!" Now my internal monologue is "fuck this, fuck this, fuck this" as I watch the mana screw unfold.

@luliby2309 7 жыл бұрын

That was awesome to see what Torment Of Hailfire could do. Great example of the ups and downs of it. And of course...that bottomdeck was amazing. I was thinking myself, "what if the last card is Torment", and it popped up. Incredible.

@And-Ham 7 жыл бұрын

I want to edit that bottom deck into a classic highlight video with airhorns and the lot

@pkmtg94 7 жыл бұрын

43:20 lol when last card in your deck is the card.

@djah8529 7 жыл бұрын

That top deck was the best thing that I have ever seen

@pietrociompi5883 7 жыл бұрын

I would say, bottomdeck ;)

@Naya_3193 7 жыл бұрын

OMGGGG THAT LAST GAME LMAAAAOOO, seriously that was amazing, best vid in a long time omg. Awesome.

@thomasurabl5602 7 жыл бұрын

Every life they gain, And every card they draw, Makes our torment so much worse. You are a great poet!

@schnecke3336 7 жыл бұрын

i love how cloudblazer is basicly a gain 11 against torment ^^

@MTGGoldfish 7 жыл бұрын

Yeah, Cloudblazer is brutal.

@xavisimon3095 7 жыл бұрын

I think torment of hellfire is good as finisher in a control deck wen the board is under control. After this double cloud-blazer the board wasn’t under control at all. And y don’t know if any other card in any other deck could do a miracle and reverse this situation. Maybe more than 2 Bontus last reckoning its too much, and you should sideboard a few flaying tendrils to stop the fast decks.

@CMOJoker 7 жыл бұрын

I put on this video to listen to in the background, as I'm sure many do, but Seth is the one youtuber that I cannot put on in the background, he just gets me enthralled in the games.

@fjmoniz 7 жыл бұрын

That last game was epic. Thank you for piloting this glorious deck.

@jimmybuffettsr1157 7 жыл бұрын

If I learned anything from these matches, it's that Cruel Reality might be busted.

@pieboy107 7 жыл бұрын

That last match with the final card being Torment of Hailfire was amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!

@cardinalsilence5352 7 жыл бұрын

That last card being hailfire reminds me of when my opponent exiled me to 1 card and brought me to 1 life while they had 2 life. Last card was chandra, torch of defiance and the +1 for 2 since I couldn't exile a card to finished it off. No better feeling! Keep up the amazing content Seth!

@bigtimetimmyjim6486 7 жыл бұрын

What the hail

@TheMattmatic 7 жыл бұрын

What in Tor-nation?

@TADMOORE 7 жыл бұрын

43:30 Seth should make a "Seth's happiest hits in modo" certainly This would enter in the collection!

@Aria-PG 7 жыл бұрын

One of my favorite cards from the set! Excited to see how it works out.

@novarwhoshere2sip865 7 жыл бұрын

best 'against the odds' I seen in awhile. thanks Seth

@camzor4216 7 жыл бұрын

This made me so happy.... Now I want to use Hail as a finisher in a esper control deck

@naejin 7 жыл бұрын

It's interesting to find different people who happen to talk with basically the same manner. Seth (Saffron Olive?) talks just like Matt Patt of Game Theory.

@tridentseven693 7 жыл бұрын

Seth yelling at Oblivion Sower after every failed ability was hilarious!

@mhw5043 7 жыл бұрын

This, this is everything I have wanted to watch. So pumped!

@agentkhaine2204 7 жыл бұрын

I'm trying my own deck that mixes Torment of Hailfire and cards like Pox. Torment hits: -Life -Nonland permanents -Cards in hand Pox hits: -Life -Creatures -Lands -Cards in hand It's a very bloody combination. Mana rocks result in bigger Death Cloud and Torment of Hailfire, and letting me keep a mana base after poxxing people.

@isaacrecio4093 7 жыл бұрын

43:27 Nicol Bolas swoops down from the heavens and says: "I got you"

@Sargeofj00 7 жыл бұрын

mono black devotion torment of hailfire in modern. Lets go!

@ericmilligan6603 7 жыл бұрын

This is just an idea, but what if you went DOWN one torment of hailfire for a Razaketh's Rite? The thing that I noticed a lot of the time was that torment of hailfire was a dead card a lot of the time, but this deck also has a lot of really powerful cards. Razakeths rite is easily castable in this deck and it can cycle early to smooth out your draws. You can use it as a toolbox card to get a Bontu's last reckoning or a torment or anything that you need.

@MTGGoldfish 7 жыл бұрын

One of the unwritten rules of Against the Odds is the winning cards get played as a four-of, but I do thinking going down a copy could be a good idea.

@dayton228 7 жыл бұрын

MTGGoldfish Well, it's not unwritten any more.

@ATwistOfTheInsane 7 жыл бұрын

You have done it before, I believe a couple months ago, going to 3 or even 2 of the namesake, though I can't remember which video it was. It was definitely the correct decision at the time, but it can happen.

@tomsullivan8038 7 жыл бұрын

That final draw being torment was sick. Love the deck. Mono black all the way

@corbinmills9335 7 жыл бұрын

"Aaaand mulling into oblivion" *mulls into oblivion sower* well played mtgo, well played.

@XNiness 7 жыл бұрын

Seth, I love you. I wanna play standard again thanks to this deck.

@containeduniverse 7 жыл бұрын

Seth, you should do this deck over and be Back & Red with a more proactive attrition approach. This deck has serious potential.

@karfsma778 7 жыл бұрын

gotta mull a little more aggressively there. In 2 matches in a row you got mana screwed cause you kept 2-land hands.

@joshuawilliams994 7 жыл бұрын

29:40 They could have lived by saccing all nonland permanents but the lone rider, leaving them on 6, followed by blocking the O-Sower, but they would have been on 1 and had to top deck a wrath the next turn. They also would have been at a heavy card disadvantage because you could crack a hedron archive and continue drawing with Sea Gate Wreckage.

@jguitar151 7 жыл бұрын

last card torment was the slickest thing ive seen in standard.

@hoagie911 7 жыл бұрын

There were quite a few opportunities to activate westvale to make some clerics when you weren't using your mana.

@andrewmarinkovich8657 7 жыл бұрын

That was a lot of fun to watch!

@Aphidae 7 жыл бұрын

Where I see torment is in the sideboard of Grindy midrange decks for other Grindy midrange decks, if both players are empty handed and have like 10 lands each and can't swing there huge board state into the opponents huge board state then torment just hoses, that was a bad example because it was too specific but it still hoses Grindy midrange in the late game

@Neurodynamic 7 жыл бұрын

Torment is super good in modern mono B devotion. With Nykthos casting for x=8 or more on turn 5 is devastating.

@skreimaerok7764 7 жыл бұрын

I've been working on a version for after rotation. This was super useful for my plotting :D

@ene11betin 7 жыл бұрын

38:03 You could say that he mulliganed into Oblivion... Sower!

@peterslonsky 7 жыл бұрын

Omg... that was amazing. Brought to you "again" by saffron!

@chronojack7547 7 жыл бұрын

you could say the gods faced a cruel reality.

@hoiss 7 жыл бұрын

Or that after you see the cruel reality, there are no gods anymore

@Volvary 7 жыл бұрын

"What's a god in the eye of a non-believer?"

@obesechicken13 7 жыл бұрын

If you add a buffer we can see what the opponent's hand size is. Would be nice. As it stands, on the phone it always shows that title overlay.

@DarthTUK 7 жыл бұрын

I think RB deck with Neheb is the way to do this. At prerelease I had Neheb and another creature swing in for 9. Second main Torment for x=14.

@refreshdaemon 7 жыл бұрын

"Maybe we should have mulliganed" -SaffronOlive at least a couple times in every video

@WUZLE 7 жыл бұрын

At 31:30 you could have cast Reckoning with just artifact mana, 4-for-1ing with no drawback.

@fxyang1989 7 жыл бұрын

Did you forgot about the vehicles parking there around 14:20? That 5 damage gives you the lethal next turn...

@Volvary 7 жыл бұрын

"And mulliganing, into Oblivion..." Sower.

@aaronmacdonald8564 7 жыл бұрын

I saw a seasons past build that ran hellfire amazingly

@TroubleTrucker 7 жыл бұрын

Epic last game. Made the whole video worth it. I think you could probably use something more synergistic than thought-knot in the deck though not sure what.

@crisgale8098 7 жыл бұрын

i really like torment of hailfire as a 1 or 2 of finisher in an abzan or jund ramp deck. definitely not a card to play for value in early or mid game but if you can cast it for a ton of mama (which is pretty consistent in a modern ramp deck late game) the choices it gives don't matter. definitely better stuff can be cast for that much mama but it's still fun and good nonetheless

@MagictheGreatening 7 жыл бұрын

I run one torment in my blue black control deck. Can really catch people off guard

@pikemand1410 7 жыл бұрын

MmmMmm, that spicy torment at the end. That's the good stuff

@DarthTUK 7 жыл бұрын

Should have called this "Tormenting Reality" because I had the same vocal reaction as you at 22:34

@Rococorico 7 жыл бұрын

I imagine it was a nice touch to use Bontu's Last Reckoning (a new card and all), but it's not really good in this deck, and Yaheeni's Expertise would probably fit sideboard better against Monument and other aggressive decks... So many good follow ups, Caravan, Liliana, Never, even some discard or additional removal like Grasp is ok. It's the complete opposite, instead of exerting your lands, you cast a free spell RARRARRARRUARRAURRUARRAU

@MelonGator 7 жыл бұрын

that last game was perfect

@alexgriesman1400 7 жыл бұрын

One of the guys at my lgs was playing torment with cryptolyth rites and had x=28 on friday.

@BigMikePlays 7 жыл бұрын

torment is the best.. i casted it for x=18 in commander.... killed 3 players... lost to a player with a ton of clue tokens to sac and a time seive... wth extra turns

@jerzane5617 7 жыл бұрын

The real MVP of this deck isn't the deck's namesake but the foil Geier Reach Sanctum. 👍 Edit: Top-Deck/Bottom-deck was runner up

@androkguz 7 жыл бұрын

I really don't know why, but I love that card.

@Vrun_35 7 жыл бұрын

Seems like some flaying tendrils to play against the U/W monument deck the turn before the torment would be pretty good.

@SilverAlex92 7 жыл бұрын

Seth your curse of drawing cards is getting more serious, first, you get mana screwed and mana flooded in a single game last week, and now you get mana screwed on the mono colored ramp deck, plus that bottom deck namesake card winning move :)

@jacobadams6277 7 жыл бұрын

I would love to try torment in death cloud, I think resolving one the turn after a big death cloud would be game over

@etaIItheta 7 жыл бұрын

I believe what happened in Game 1 against UG Cowl is what's called a Hail Mary.

@Bottles7 7 жыл бұрын

Again thumbnail is top tier

@muffinhydra 7 жыл бұрын

torment has a breaking point at around 12-13 mana casting below it does not yield consistent results, i would rather go for some mono green ultra ramp and then splash black for torment

@schmittyboy01 7 жыл бұрын

I have a deck similar in the sense that i'm using inspiring statuary to ramp rather than archives/sower

@Bryan-T 7 жыл бұрын

I figured you'd have gone all in on punisher cards.

@genesisorigin5941 7 жыл бұрын

Omg that top deck was insane!!!!!!!!!👌

@eduardoramirez-fo2mq 7 жыл бұрын

Favorite thumbnail so far

@woolsyzygy 7 жыл бұрын

If this weren't focused on Hailfire, I'd say 4 of Reality and 2 of Torment would be much more powerful. Severely punishes control decks, too, since they rarely have creatures. What do you guys think?

@rngdevi1777 7 жыл бұрын

Last card torment lol fuckin rip that was one of the greatest plays I've ever seen

@tristian2598 7 жыл бұрын

Primal amulet *torment of hailfire suddenly seems super op even with only 5x*

@grantmccoy6739 7 жыл бұрын

I think Torment of Hailfire is a fair card, but not really a standard defining card like Heart of Kiran or Collected Company. Its also good, the rate you get for X is not abysmally low like Walking Ballista. I think its a legit finisher in control/burn lists, but not necessarily the best in all in lists like this one. To be honest, there are much better sweeper spells in red, and Bontu's Last Reckoning is not very good by comparison. The problem with ToH is the floor is low like you mentioned, but it seems like the efficiency of it is enough to make it at least viable in certain match ups, such as midrange. The card is also fun, which is kind of the point of this game, so I like it.

@sagacity1071 7 жыл бұрын

Why. Keep. 2. Landers. In. High. Curve......

@Schlaffeck 7 жыл бұрын

Man, that was intense :D

@davidwilson6138 7 жыл бұрын

I love this deck!!!

@MrAvgD 7 жыл бұрын

Think Hour of Glory in SB would've helped in some games, just wish it was as good as Deicide effect

@howles5651 7 жыл бұрын

This is such a sweet deck

@xIElianIx 7 жыл бұрын

i want to see this deck in modern :D

@MrGrovak 7 жыл бұрын

That mtgo promo ob nixilis art is sick

@tlapp99 7 жыл бұрын

Hey seth loved the deck. I know you don't do submissions very much. However if you want to have some crazy games in modern for against the odds. I have a waste not/ torment of hailfire value combo deck that is perfect for this segment.

@PalPlays 7 жыл бұрын

I've been playing around with the Harvest Wave deck you played in Much Abrew, but splashing black for Torment. How do you feel about X=17 on turn 4? That's about as good as it gets.

@Dwigt00 7 жыл бұрын

I'm kinda surprised you didn't have any Flaying Tendrils for fighting the monument deck. Seems better than bontu's

@lordstov8592 7 жыл бұрын

you wait till you use it in edh, x is 25 the first time I played it. I scrubbed myself vigorously that night 😂

@fortunesfavor8894 7 жыл бұрын

Hail yeah!

@Duquette33 7 жыл бұрын

That last game though . Best Draw NA.

@androkguz 7 жыл бұрын

29:50 the opponent could have just sacrificed the Always watchings. And they had 3 cards in hand.

@Biospark88 7 жыл бұрын

"I think we're out of outs." Another t-shirt candidate.

@DnBforewer 7 жыл бұрын

Well i play Torment of Hailfire in cmnder deck as sole finnisher and let me tell you if you cast that for like 100+ it rarely matters how many cards they have and how many creatures they have ... :D. And true that that deck is just ramp, removal, mana doubling and tutors. ..