Well, if by the time you where making this video you already thought the 8 bit guys project was getting out of hand, what are you thinking about his new video, where instead of getting his boards manufactured by PCBWay, he just bought all the equipment for PCB Mass production? kzfaq.info/get/bejne/pN9yrKd_ttuxfX0.html

All that lead solder likely did something to the 8 bit guy.

Just found out about the planned 6502 fork of the Agon Light by Olimex. If it materializes, then the Neo6502 would be the 8 bit guy's dream computer!

Shots fired.

To be really honest, the ESP32-PICO-D4 is a microcontroller, not a chip natively intended for audio and video (actually it's bit of an accomplishment to be able to use it to generate A/V). From the datasheet it even has bluetooth and wi-fi, not used there, so it's also a bit overkilled. But I think this does not take away its merit, it's really a wonderful product!

Just seen latest 8 bit guy video on his computer. Saying it's going to be even more expensive. They also can't source parts. Yet everyone is congratulating him. Go figure. Well done you for doing this by yourself and creating much simpler and cost effective solution👏👏👏

I found out about the Agon Light... Well, like a lot of people did apparently. The focus on being a pure 8-bit machine, running a classic basic, control output, and complete hackability to me is worth more than having a couple of prestigious chips on the board. That is not even mentioning that it is open source, which is amazing. I am glad for the X-16 at least because I likely would not have learned about The Byte Attic and the Agon. Very excited to get mine.

The 8-bit Guy must hate this video. I mentioned the Agon project in the comment section in one of his Commander X-16 videos, and he marked my comment as a "Scam" to KZfaq. That's petty!

The X16 suffered from unrealistic project goals (how would you provide the intended graphics capabilities without using custom chips OR microcontrollers/FPGA? the Agon also uses a microcontroller for that) and an absolutely MASSIVE feature creep, probably best exemplified by including two different (custom!) sound chips.

This video made my day. I'm no stranger to failed projects, but the x16 is pretty bad. Not an 8 Bit Guy hater, but dang. Dude set out to build a yatch; ended up making just the anchor.

No 8-bit will ever be the basis for my "dream computer".

I’m not looking for a petscii robots port soon😂

I like the work from both the 8-bit guy and the Byte Attic. Like in the 80's we had plenty to choose from BBC Micros, C64, MSX, Spectrum, each with their pro's and con's. And since we are grown-ups now we do not want to start an Atari vs Commodore argument anymore but just appreciate the differences.

Hilarious video and yes always in love with the z80 and any modern takes towards it. I hadnt even noticed the Commander X16 had turn into the exact opposite of what he said he wanted it to be until this. Thanks for sharing mate, gonna look more into the Agon Lite a bit now.

@The Byte Attic please make an Argon Light with the W65C265S, something I could actually get to love and bring back all the fond memory's of the 6502 and 8-bit world! While expanding my mind with the power of the newer 16bit part!!

I applaud everybody’s efforts. Including the 8-bit guy. The Agon seems great. I also like Stefany Allaire’s F256K and her other projects….

Damn! Sweet little beast you made, congratulations! Thanks

Every time I want to laugh a little bit, I come back to this video... :-D Thanks man... That's pure entertaining.

I could not stop laughing! Great Job!

Be careful @The Byte Attic the 8 Bit Guy might come after you with his paperclip! You might be the next IBM 7496!

I did not know about the Agon until this video popped up in my feed. Then I saw that there is a bit of drama from both communities (Agon and x16) and then realized that this is awesome! It's just like in the 80s, 6502 vs z80 (and me quietly enjoying the company of both.) I love it! I also rather enjoy BBC BASIC. C64 was my first machine, but the graphics capabilities were cleaner on the BBC machines. (Or at least on the States side versions I got, which I think weren't exactly BBC BASIC.) I am going to order an Agon Light 2. I probably will still get a commander x16 too if/when it comes out. Honestly though, I think the Agon comes closer to being an off the shelf 8-bit computer.

Okay, this is pretty hilarious.... Hoping that the 8-bit guy is a good sport, and that he has a good laugh too.

Harsh but fair - he lays out an ambitious but plausible brief, that the final design absolutely ignores. To get the results described at anything like that price, you build the agon light - very few, surface mount components on a small board, do the best you can with using a microcontroller or coprocessor to do the bells and whistles, no cute add-ons like custom keycaps or a full expansion bus.

I've followed the dream computer project since inception. And it sadly has become pretty much every single thing it was not supposed to be. Agon Light is totally new to me, but seems to be endlessly closer to how the dream computer was envisioned. Ticks most of the boxes. While the cx16 ticks none(?). I will probably not fork out the hundreds of dollarydoos for a cx16, and I fear that 8 bit guy was correct in that a high price would prohibit a big enough install base for a good community to form and thrive.

Ok.... I'm sold, I want an Agon light now!

The 8-bit Guy is probably too fond of 6502 assembly.

The 8 bit guys basically delivered EVERYTHING he said it was bad... LOL

When is the Agon HEAVY™ with an EZ80F91 @ 50 MHz coming out?

This is perfect .... Crazy crazy 8bit guy!

You have to buy the chick'em lips 64 version

"What they said."

Hello, I would like to know if there is any plan to produce an even more faster version of the Agon Light using the eZ80 Acclaim Plus! version of the processor. I don't know if this is technically practicable or if there are issues increasing the speed of the CPU. Anyone could answer, please? Thank you!

The X16 went away from the obvious adoption of a 65C02 microcontroller, this opened the way for a nice external bus and upper memory usage but pricing went nuts. In the end the YM chip shortage and the need of another small FPGA (besides the one already serving the video and the PSG audo channels) turned it into a small frankenstein. Worse, AFAIK there is no technical way to push the YM chip into the existing FPGA. Just saying again, if there is a copycat of the Agon for the 6502, some better sound support exploring the ESP32/fabgl and emulator environment for widespread development...all under 60-70 USD, the X16 project will be doomed and turn into a Barbie PC that will be reviewed in 2030 by LGR...

When the 8-bit guy first talked about it being $50 and having all those features I was excited and thought that - with modern technology - he would be able to achieve the pricing goals. Now it $300 and potentially more with, most likely, no way to get it shipped here to the UK without hefty fees. At least he is being open about the project. The Agon light seems to be what the 8-bit guy was making just cheaper, available for shipping to the UK and slightly better. Also, I can get it right now with free delivery instead of waiting an ever-increasing amount of time for the Commander X16.

Thanks for making this computer! I just discovered Agon through people commenting on the most recent X16 update. My enthusiasm for X16 was waning more and more as the time progressed and the last update was the nail on the coffin. Now I'm really considering Agon. As a hobby programmer who had lots of fun making small games in PICO-8 I think it might be a right fit for me. Would love to see some small game examples for it to get me started :) Also, any plans for a community outside facebook for those of us who don't use it?

Agon is my favourite over Commander. But I like the 6502 legacy the most, even if Z80 has been created by "our" Federico Faggin. :)

Alternate title, What happens when a software designer with no hardware or project management experience decides to make a retro computer. My favorite part was his purchase of the wave solder machine for Texelec. Why on God's green earth wouldn't you have PCBWay or some other fab house make the boards and install all the passives and sockets? Yeah, it's would cost the same as buying the tooling to do it yourself, but if you don't know what the fuck you're doing, just get it built properly and PCBWay would have to eat the fuckups and tooling errors, you'd probably get a better deal on parts that way too, since they buy in bulk that he cannot. I've been irritated with the guy since I saw him re-cap a Macintosh board and just rip the old surface mount caps off, acting like the torn traces he got from doing that were just going to happen anyway.

My Agon Light 2 is coming soon. I hope I will be able to write programs for it in Z80 assembly. Would be nice to have a howto 😊. Not how to program Z80 assembly but how to get a program on the Agon Light and how to access the internal peripherals.

If you like the Agon light™ just wait until you see the Agon heavy… @150 MHz!

Tell us what you really think. 😂 On a more serious note, I can personally recommend the Agon Light. I bought one as soon as Olimex started taking orders and I've been thoroughly impressed with it so far. Everyone involved with its design and implementation should be very proud of what they have achieved.

Comander X16 by committee. Agon light™ by Bernardo

The only thing I’d do differently, just for kicks, would be to use the Z16F ZNEO CPU. It has proper retro provenance (Zilog), it is a full-blown CPU with external buses and a 24-bit address space, and it is basically an answer to 68k that’s less cumbersome to program in assembly, and generally much faster than the first few 68k-a were. A much easier architecture to learn too - at a good place between RISC and CISC :) It is also usable with no external memory - just internal RAM and Flash, so an “intro” board could have the external memory left unpopulated.

I'm glad to see you mean to poke harmless fun at the X-16. Designs tend to change over time if not closely controlled. It's a thing the Hacker's Dictionary calls feeping creaturism. The X-16 is an interesting design, but it has, in my opinion, strayed somewhat from its original mission, more especially with respect to the price and availability. I have two "faux-retro" machines: the first is an SC126 (from Stephen Cousins) which runs CP/M versions 2.2 and 3, and Z-System (aka ZCPR3) and is expandable via its RC2014/80 buss. It runs a Z180 CPU at 18.432 MHz, and is the zippiest CP/M machine I've ever used. My other machine in this class is a RetroMax 1.2, a clone of the Colour Maximite II. It mounts a 480 MHz ARM M7 Cortex CPU with 512 k of RAM running Maximite BASIC (aka MM-BASIC) at over 400,000 lines per second (faster than a Z-80 or 6502 can run machine code). It's a hoot to program, and MM-BASIC is one of the more advanced dialects of BASIC I've seen. Both of these machines were less than $100 US (although I did have to assemble the SC126 from a kit... but that's part of the fun.) Oh, and the SC126 does not have a video display - I hit it from a serial terminal emulator (minicom) on my laptop. I'm not sure what your goals are, but my goal here is what I call "retro without pain". Both of these machines deliver that in spades, doubled, redoubled, and vulnerable. I'm quite interested in the Agon line of machines, but I'm sitting back for now with what I've got. They keep me plenty busy.

Great video! It is a damned shame that Stefany Allaire up on her offer to collaborate on the "dream computer" at the beginning. I look forward to getting an F256 Jr. from Stefany, a Commander X16 from David (but only when the price is MUCH cheaper than what he mentioned a few days ago), and the Agon Light :)

I am Mega65 supporter, but I am considering buying Agon just because of this video :) Kidding :) But the more I watch people using their Agons the more I would like to have it. Sadly, there is only so much time...

Any chances of fitting a 3-4 channel PSG or maybe a simpler FM chip to work inside the ESP32 along the VGA, buzzer and basic i/o? I think that leveraging the sound system a little bit would help a lot the platform.

This might be a genius application of Cunningham's Law by The 8-bit-guy. Would the Agon light exist if the X16 was closer to its goals? The Picocomputer 6502 wouldn't.

The 8bit guy sold out. He knew "his" system wouldnt ever be 50 or close to it.

Remember it is april 1st. It might be a joke

I do hope that Agon Light will get the following it deserves. Great little project that you don't need to give an arm and leg for. Keep it up!

He probably is gonna make a much more affordable version and don't believe what he said that he doesn't make money from this , of course he makes a lot of money !

Holy crumbs had no idea there was so much drama in the retro community lol. I wonder how many people bought an agon light after watching this video. I myself bought an agon light i cant remember how exactly discovered it maybe a youtube algorithm, but glad i did. Only downside is that the keyboard is for ps2, which limits me findind a decent keyboard for it...looking forward to learning more about it and the agon community seems to be more 'normal' than some other places lol

Instead of the ESP32, could it be possible to use something like a Propeller 1 to handle those tasks (and then some) or would it be too underpowered? It is a little over 3x the cost of the ESP32 (in volumes 100+).

“It shouldn’t cost 5 times more than a Raspberry Pi” - not said in 2023

Yes.. exactly..

Wow! Great work. Found this channel in 8-bit Guy's comment section.

I am a complete no idea on hardware. Will there be an Agon version that includes better sound, or is it possible to add better sound to the existing board. I don't own an Agon as it is soooo expensive to ship to Australia, but hoping to maybe afford one soon.

At least for first couple of hours in the morning of the 1st of April I thought that 8-bit guys video was a kind of reply to your parody. The plot was there. it reminded me of an old Marx brothers film where Groucho is conning Margaret Dumont and at the same time had the total lack of organisation as Basil Fawlty in Fawlty Towers. Back to reality, what it mind blowing that is the total lack of focus and organisation in his project. Before I retired as a teacher I worked for nearly 25 years in science (genetics and biochemistry) and every project at the research centre where i worked had a goal, a time-line with milestones and a budget. This is from my view totally lacking in the presentation of the CX16 project.

What a complete dig at David! I feel for him. The original idea was grounded in logic and common sense but when he got down to actually building the thing, practicality and desired function clouded the original vision. The Commander X-16 became a dream system instead of the retro platform for everyone. I love the features it brings to the table and have thought about picking one up. I still might but I'm concerned that the pricing may limit the community and the platform's overall success. This is the first I've heard of the Agon light but I find it an interesting idea. Use of the Z80 gives it a lot of potential. I like the idea of it being able to run CP/M. Maybe it will be able to take advantage of the modern developments in Cloud CP/M or possibly run MSX titles. That would make it even more compelling. BBC BASIC didn't see much use outside of the UK so it would be nice to see other environments for the platform. Overall, I think it's an interesting project and I'll be keeping it on my radar.

My AgonLight2 arrived yesterday. Sad to say I'm on the other side of the country and won't be able to see it for another week and a half. I've been working and playing with computers since 1972 and am as excited today as I was the day a ZX81 kit showed up on my doorstep, I walked out of a store with a Commodore 64, I waited for my Amiga 1000 to be unloaded from the truck, a brand-new Sinclair QL came home from a computer show and a raspberry pi came into my life. At one time I had 185 computers in my collection. I applaud all of the creative developers, designers, programmers and tinkerers around the world. So, way to go THE BYTE ATTIC, THE 8-BIT GUY, RASPERBERRY PI and everyone else!!!

There are no dream computers. Only computers 😂

This is fine. Product development goes exactly like this....

Wonder if Petscii Robots can be run in Agon Light 2

I was oblivious as to the existence of Zilog eZ80. 512KB linearly addressed? I am sold. Very nice micro. Thanks.

I just watched the most recent update video on the X16 and I was appalled to see where it is now. I still have a lot of respect towards Dave, but the project really went out of hand; the project has met none of its initial goals. I still think there's hope for the system if its all in the form of an FPGA, but at that point, you may as well invest in a Mister since someone is bound to make a X16 core for it.

CX16 was the victim of severe scope-creep

I have mad respect for the 8bit guy...but the x16 project went astray of his initial goals and at many points I didn't know if it was going to land is the made it to completion. I also wonder if the agon light 2 just happened to fill the whole it was looking to fill. For me the agon light 2 is something I have not followed until recently. But with the price, from factor and software that already exist for it...yea my order is already shipped...in the waiting phase. I am amazed how simple this device seems, and it does not hurt that it's z80 based...I cut my teath on that many years ago with another simple computer the zx81.

It's sad that you could probably buy both the X16, the Agon Light, and a meal from McDonald's and still spend less money than your run of the mill Raspberry Pi.

Today the 8 Bit Guy is spending his time wisely making Barbie videos versus making X-16 viable 🙄

Time to stop by the Poké Mart for some Burn Heal. 😂

Without the influence by the 8-bit-guy, this X16 will simply fail. Now they're a lot of backers spent there money and hope on the device.. the X16 MUST be a good device. And of course, critizing the weak points is just trolling.. The X16 seems to me more like a nightmare- than a dream computer, at least for gen 1 and gen 2. I'm not sure, if there was any false-promises about the Agon Light, but I guess not. It seems like a solid peace of work. That's the importent difference to the X16.

Going to bed. Computer at bedside table. 'Computer I want to dream an erotic dream with (choose your favorite). That would be literally a dream computer 🤣🤣

Awesome job that you made of the Agon Light.

Really great looking, but really want a 6502 or 65816. Believe it or not I still remember most of the instruction set.

Ouch! But yeah...the X16 Commander obviously suffered from feature creep. Too many cooks spoiling the pot, and they seriously lost their way and blew past their original goals. On the other hand, the Agon Light is cheap and intriguing...

I want! Looking forward to this being available in the UK via the Pihut soon .. I suspect the ban at the Commander x16 forum falls under their Spam rules - "No Spam: You are prohibited from advertising any product or service on this forum. Spam (unsolicited advertising) will be removed and the poster will be permanently banned, no questions asked."

First, I am a Apple ][ user that never use a Commodore. But 8-bit guy and his friends "habit" made them use the similar SYNTAX of making the OS and expect the similar things from C64/128. From your video, I see Agon Light heavily depends on what kind of programs to come out, without the influence from a certain type of retro computer (Is BBC BASIC popular? I'm not sure which retro-PC use it, please advise), more freedom to make something new and more unknown possibility.

Iirc The 8-bit Guy's argument against FPGA was it price, which is fair.

Let's see. A Dream computer would be a computer capable of playing every game from every system. Plug and play. No configurations at all. It could connect to a RF tv, HDMI, VGA, RCA, all at once. I wouldn't need to know what components it has. It would never break down. It would never age. Etc.... The 'dream computers ' people talk about are just plain computers.

The king is dead. Long live the king!

You should bring out a 6502 version of the Agon Light, running Commodore BASIC 😁

Good Job indeed

8-bit guy has experience programming the 6502 not the Z80.

I bet $1 if 8-bit guy comments here

It's would have been nice if we got a RISC-V project instead of those old 8 bit cpu's. Out of the two the Agon Light looks to be the most competent, properly thought through and it's here! The messing that is going on with the production of the X16 is mind boggling, who in there right mind would sidestep the likes of PCB-way or any of the dozens of manufacturers that specialise in small scale production runs. The lack of Yamaha sound chips was a School boy error, back in the day Jack Tramiel would withhold chips for other manufacturers that they were in competition with. He'd wipe the floor with those 'Guy's

I did read your comment to the commander 16. I agree to your assessment of the design.It took stupidly long and what came out was an overpriced sub-par computer. But I am not as harsh as you with the commercial aspect. They may fail to make money with it. The Hill-Billy production approach only marginally improved by the industrial production of a part of the system. At the end they have not only no clue about design. They have no clue about manufacturing either. Or about cost calculation. They think if they make 100 bucks per computer that is profit. But what about warranty? What about further development? They have no clue. At the end they must be careful not to ruin themselves.

Isn't the video co-processor ESP-something count as "emulation" since it's creating a VGA output through modern-speed CPU processing? It's really no different from the FPGA on the Commander.

Amazing. 😂 Now, are there any limitations preventing a 6502-based Agon version ?

Exactly right.

Not to be negative, the Agon Light is a great accomplishment, but you are proud that it does not use a FPGA. However you are using a 240MHz ESP32 for the A/V, so the whole system could just run on that, completely omitting the Z80 and the rest of the board. Although a FPGA itself is also not 8-bit period correct, it can be used to design a period correct A/V solution.

Love it! - Great video! 🙂

Thank you, I did not know the Agon light exists. It looks very interesting.

ha ha ha~!!

Funny. I am sure even the 8-bit guy can't help but smile.

hahaha great vid!!! it must have taken some time to put together.. i appreciate your work!!! u can sign me up as an agon light user!!! :)

He just did a full review of the mega65, yet still no video on his end about his thoughts on this.

When I saw the thumbnail I got a bit shocked because it did not match the serious (but fun) image you usually project in your work and in your videos. But this... this is funny (very, very funny indeed)... but serious. We have discovered another side of you and I must admit I like it (I saw it twice in a row). Gracias, muchas gracias for your previous content... and coming content like this.

Awesome project that is rapidly growing on me. I can't help but think branding in regards to creating intrest. A (wedge)case. The face of the platform. An identity. Something that makes it recognisable. Of course it has nothing to do with the programming of it but rather those that the programs are written for. Who will buy it and be proud of it. The quest for a killer app and its users. I get that such branding is not needed for all its utilities and that time has passed such a singular strategy but it would align with the goals of Mr. Murray as this video projects. A great project for a third party genious 😅

Is it possible to run BBC Micro games on it?

I admit I had to chuckle a bit :).