Philadelphia's Painful Trolley Problem

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Alan Fisher

Alan Fisher

Күн бұрын

SEPTA please
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Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
0:55 Where are the Trolleys?
2:29 What we've lost
3:56 Other Issues
5:28 The Solution
6:54 Outro

Пікірлер: 1 500
@alanthefisher
@alanthefisher Жыл бұрын
I forgot to mention Roz actually talked about one of the routes in particular before if you want more info on what Philly has lost. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/sMmomN2b2d2VcZ8.html
@25usd94
@25usd94 Жыл бұрын
Yay Rocz!!
@twillkickers
@twillkickers Жыл бұрын
What happened to the original thumbnail from MS Paint? I liked that one better! :)
@wsdtime
@wsdtime Жыл бұрын
I love trolley but damn septa is frustrating example the westmoreland loop is open after a trillion years seriously why did a small loop take so long and thank you I've been saying for years E-buses(trolleybuses) in the 23,29,47,53,56 and 79 just to name a few
@broyofroyo1207
@broyofroyo1207 Жыл бұрын
Please make videos more often😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
@InterRegios
@InterRegios Жыл бұрын
Better trolleybuses than hybrid or battery powered buses.
@danielkelly2210
@danielkelly2210 Жыл бұрын
The way to solve "cars in the way of trolleys" is to tow them away and make people pay fines to get them back. After people understand that's what happens when you block them they'll get the message pretty fast.
@winterwatson6811
@winterwatson6811 Жыл бұрын
i like the idea of fining the offender, but what if they cut away and remove just the section of car blocking the tracks, like a tree that’s fallen across a trail 😘
@TheGrinningViking
@TheGrinningViking Жыл бұрын
Put a cow catcher on the front, trolly keeps going.
@kms1.62
@kms1.62 Жыл бұрын
​@Adora Tsang Why do you think so? EDIT: I asked before you added "Because car owners pay more tax than trolley riders" after just "It makes more sense to just get rid of trolleys." My response to you is: Car owners and trolley riders are all taxpayers. Some car owners pay more taxes but so do some trolley riders, similarly, some car owners and trolley riders pay very little or nothing in taxes. Everybody pays, so we might as well pay for nice cities and neighborhoods rather than ones that are simply fast and easy to drive through at the expense of everything else, if the trolley bothers you so much just take a different route, it can't after all. Slow down, enjoy your life, perhaps take a break and ride a trolley.
@erictheepic5019
@erictheepic5019 Жыл бұрын
Easiest to just put a big steel bumper on the trolley.
@tylerkey5677
@tylerkey5677 Жыл бұрын
​@Adora Tsang The amount of infrastructure necessary to allow everyone to drive will always cost more than the revenue we could capture from those drivers. This only appears feasible because cities have spent the last 50 or so years bankrupting themselves in an attempt to accommodate cars. Most people are unaware of how insanely expensive all the car infrastructure we take for granted is. Though a trolley fare is comparatively less than whatever taxes drivers are paying in PA, the trolley can transport a lot more people at a much more reasonable cost per person.
@lefra3807
@lefra3807 Жыл бұрын
Well, as a philosophy student I‘ve heard of worse trolley problems
@Cobalt985
@Cobalt985 Жыл бұрын
Oh, this one still kills people, it's just less obvious.
@generalchang3053
@generalchang3053 Жыл бұрын
Well played!
@grahamstrouse1165
@grahamstrouse1165 Жыл бұрын
😁😁😁
@Jehty_
@Jehty_ Жыл бұрын
Like 0:48 ?
@izabellafulop476
@izabellafulop476 11 ай бұрын
I would allow the trolley to hit 4 people because its not my problem
@ButtProsecutor
@ButtProsecutor Жыл бұрын
It does really break my heart seeing trolly lines being paved over slowly with time, especially in south philly
@mjmaso02
@mjmaso02 Жыл бұрын
This. It kills me every time I walk over them on the way to work in South Philly and know in the back of my mind that they will probably never be used again no matter how intact some parts still are.
@moisesrosario9716
@moisesrosario9716 Жыл бұрын
It remains me of my city Veracruz where you can see trolley tracks on some streets but they are not trolleys now, only one as a monument and some double decker tourist buses that looks like a a trolleys. The biggest reason I heard about my city don't having rail transit is that the soil is "too inestable for heavy trains" but seeing trolley tracks over a 100 years old survive longer than the average street makes me think otherwise. For last the trolleys service lasted from 1902 to 1987 way longer than any bus line today ; trolleys were removed because they were "old and slow" but the average bus now is from the early 90's or older and already feel like the are ancient and are quite bumpy, yeah they are faster but speed is not that important (basically it takes me around the same time or less to commute by bike compared to buses, so that shows speed itself is not that important) (at least I'm glad they exist a decent bus network with inexpensive prices, not like on the USA...)
@merccadoosis8847
@merccadoosis8847 Жыл бұрын
@𝘽𝙞𝙢𝙗𝙤 𝘽𝙖𝙘𝙖𝙧𝙙𝙞 I can readily understand your feeling. These lines are not a blight as suggested by the well intentioned narrator, but are a resource. The easy solution to the problem is simply to prioritize SEPTA trolley as a transportation option. Not only does it promote commerce and facilitate local transportation, it is also a good means of tourism revenue. I do agree with the narrator that the trolleybus (trackless trolley) is generally a better option [costs less to operate, more mobility in case of congestion, easier to divert in case cars are parked illegal]. But there are times when preserving something like these trolleys add to the character of a city thereby enhancing the quality of life. That makes it a worthwhile investment.
@cieludbjrg4706
@cieludbjrg4706 Жыл бұрын
@@merccadoosis8847 A trolley bus seldom becomes loner than 18 metres. 25 metres do exist, buy a tram/trolley/LRV can be any length you want. Oslo’s new trams are 33 metre long, Bergen has 42 metre long, Budapest operates 50 metre long cars. Berlin runs 22 metre long trams in multiple. Now try that with a bus! :)
@alexinness
@alexinness Жыл бұрын
I'm happy to see someone willing to pay the high costs of trolleys. Send your money right to SEPTA so the rest of us don't have to.
@swisstroll3
@swisstroll3 Жыл бұрын
I remember when SEPTA trolleys cost 5 cents to ride on. Favorite SEPTA story from those days: A man got on the trolley and gave the driver a $20 bill, saying “I’m sorry, I don’t have a nickel.” The driver answered; “That’s fine; in a minute you’re going to have 399 of them!”
@bustedupgrunt1177
@bustedupgrunt1177 Жыл бұрын
Nickel fares were back in pre-SEPTA days when it was called PTC. If there was an open window I'd hop on the side, put my feet on that sideboard and hold on to the window bars - save myself 5 cents for a candy bar. School shoes were hard, sneakers were best. The 13 was my trolley line, it's still runnin.
@bustedupgrunt1177
@bustedupgrunt1177 Жыл бұрын
George - d'ya know the story about crowded trolleys and open fire plugs on a hot summer day? - with the best time for that stunt being late afternoon rush hour.
@respect411
@respect411 Жыл бұрын
alan as a south philly resident and someone who rides the trolleys everyday, you really hit the nail on the head with this video. its incredibly frustrating to see other cities swoon over light rail and streetcars and race to build them, while septa just lets our unused tracks rot away, ESPECIALLY when the tracks are grade separated (like the 56). what i wish septa would look into and that no one talks about is converting more west philly bus lines to trolley...the tunnel definitely has the capacity because they did this in the past and this would legitimately speed people's rides to center city vs all surface streets
@AEMoreira81
@AEMoreira81 Жыл бұрын
For the 23, 29, and 79, one would need Southern Depot (and possibly Midvale-the 23 is too long to be just out of Southern) to be able to equipped with that infrastructure.
@jeromehuhman185
@jeromehuhman185 Жыл бұрын
I used to ride the 56 trolley years ago. I do not recall a grade separation from Cottman Ave to Broad Street. I do remember delays due to double parked cars.
@greyEAX
@greyEAX 10 ай бұрын
Get involved locally. Share transit videos with your friends and family. It's a lot easier to make stuff happen locally - it's actually doable.
@unconventionalideas5683
@unconventionalideas5683 3 ай бұрын
SEPTA has a lot of positive plans in the works from what I gather, and if modernization improves the service enough, then it may well be a reality.
@danielkelly2210
@danielkelly2210 Жыл бұрын
In before Europeans saying "Why don't you call them TRAMS?!?" 😆 To reactivate a disused trolley line in the US, they'd probably have to do a 30-year long EIS and economic-impact study after which NIMBYs would scuttle it anyway after they found out they'd lose a few parking spaces here or there.
@hurricanemeridian8712
@hurricanemeridian8712 Жыл бұрын
Okay fair but what's that got to do with the name? Trollry Bus is an automotive bus with trollry wiring attached to it...this here is a rail based system thus making it a... Tram Trolley I guess? But basically all Trams run on overhead lines so why not just call it a Tram?
@SpinThwomp
@SpinThwomp Жыл бұрын
this is quite possibly the most based thing ive read all day
@Barten0071
@Barten0071 Жыл бұрын
@@hurricanemeridian8712 trams have panthographs
@danielkelly2210
@danielkelly2210 Жыл бұрын
@@hurricanemeridian8712 I was just making light of how many people criticize US-Americans for calling them trolleys. Which would be like me telling a Brit he's using the wrong word for a spanner... that's a wrench, dude!
@jakevolpe
@jakevolpe Жыл бұрын
A tram is a box suspended from a cable like a ski lift, silly limeys
@Hollandstation
@Hollandstation Жыл бұрын
Trolleybusses are so great! They are environmentally friendly as they don't require batteries or a combustion engine. recently I was filming at the largest trolleybus network of west europe which is in Arnhem, the Netherlands. Great video Alan!
@analienmango8756
@analienmango8756 Жыл бұрын
Seattle Trollybuses yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@nitehawk86
@nitehawk86 Жыл бұрын
You know some asshole out there is trying to create a battery-electric trolley just to get the worst case of battery powered busses and inflexibility of trolley rails.
@davidty2006
@davidty2006 Жыл бұрын
Pretty much everywhere in the UK used to have them till the 1960's then they were replaced with a variety of busses from old AEC RT's & routemasters to complete different and newer leyland, bristol, volvo and dennis busses that ran under council liveries till privatisation.
@Hollandstation
@Hollandstation Жыл бұрын
@@nitehawk86 haha probably
@agussaurus2707
@agussaurus2707 Жыл бұрын
They are not, they realease tyre dust
@schwarzwolfram7925
@schwarzwolfram7925 Жыл бұрын
Philadelphia: Switches to trolleybuses to get around parked cars that are in the way. Amsterdam: Removes the parking spaces that are in the way.
@JosefDerKaiser
@JosefDerKaiser Жыл бұрын
It would be interesting to see SEPTA run the old K-car trolleys up in Chestnut Hill once they complete (if they complete) the modernization project. My dad thinks that those are the original trolley tracks, would probably throw and old man fit if he found out they were renovated and never used.
@tealmer3528
@tealmer3528 Жыл бұрын
Everyone I've talked to at SEPTA has been extremely firm about the 23 not coming back until at least after trolley modernization is complete, which they say will be 2030 at the earliest, and they don't seem amicable to bringing the 23 back ever.
@TheMansfieldBusGuy
@TheMansfieldBusGuy Жыл бұрын
K-Cars actually ran on the 23 into Chestnut hill on a couple occasional fan trips in the 1990s
@RailBuffRob
@RailBuffRob Жыл бұрын
@@tealmer3528 I can't see it ever being a priority since most of it runs parallel to the Broad Street Line and the rest runs parallel to both of the Chestnut Hill lines which terminate exactly where the trolley did.
@nathaniellindner313
@nathaniellindner313 Жыл бұрын
@@tealmer3528 That makes sense because everyone at SEPTA above the driver level needs to be yeeted into the Delaware
@tealmer3528
@tealmer3528 Жыл бұрын
@@nathaniellindner313 The lower levels of SEPTA Planning have actually got a lot of really cool people that aren't morons, and people like Lex Powers are doing a lot of good work there. The issue is the higher-ups, as well as the structural issues both plaguing funding and giving the city basically no vote (SEPTA's board is 2 votes for the city, 2 votes for each of the 4 suburban counties for a total of 8 votes for the suburbs, a vote for the state house, a vote for the state Senate, and a vote for the governor)
@mardyson4102
@mardyson4102 Жыл бұрын
As someone who uses the trolley in west philly everyday to get to work, I’m so excited for the renovations soon! The trolley cars are not great and we need so much more space. I don’t want to deal with 3 trolleys passing by my stop because they were too full 😭
@cameron_o
@cameron_o Жыл бұрын
I take the 34 into work, I'm a bit sad to know they'll be consolidating stops, but I know it's for the better to stay on time and to have the larger vehicles work
@gabrieleortiz5041
@gabrieleortiz5041 Жыл бұрын
I take the 102 and 101 trolleys to work out in Media, and understaffing has apparently been a problem. I wish SEPTA was appropriately staffed & funded!
@HouseJawn
@HouseJawn Жыл бұрын
@@gabrieleortiz5041 they are but they squander and waste the money
@AEMoreira81
@AEMoreira81 Жыл бұрын
@@gabrieleortiz5041 - Everyone is dealing with staffing shortages. Agencies are competing with trucking companies for a decreasing pool of commercial drivers (these trolleys are still considered Class 8 commercial vehicles).
@Poisson4147
@Poisson4147 Жыл бұрын
They're planning on buying a whole new fleet of articulated trolleys, but as always in Philly and PA someone has to come up with $$$ planning.septa.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/SEPTA-TrolleyMod_ProgramGoals.pdf
@catalinpetrescu8488
@catalinpetrescu8488 Жыл бұрын
In Romania, if you park on any tram tracks, you get a ticket from the police and a lot of meat in your fridge from the travelers. And if the police gets to lift your car, depending on how important that line is, you can also make it to the local news in a negative way. The worst problem we have in Bucharest are drivers that go on the tram line (something which is also forbidden at a national level, but largely ignored) which is why we started separating the tram tracks with fences to the rest of the road. This is really useful on large boulevards as it turns the tram lines into an effective emergency lane for ambulances to go through as well. They even added some bus lanes through, though this feels weird and is quite problematic when two buses going opposite direction meet in a fenced area. Unfortunately, tram systems in Romania have been quite neglected in the last 30 years, with 2 cities (Brașov and Constanța) getting rid of them completely, and another one (Botoșani) having it in tatters. There are cities, however, such as Cluj or Ploiești which have rebuilt their system from scratch, with Reșița doing the same at the time I post this comment. In Bucharest the system is both old, massive and complex, and attracts a lot of riders, despite the bad press caused by the old rolling stock (long story-short: the most widely used tram model is the V3A series, which was designed as a cheap communist copycat of a west-german tram and improved upon until today; the tram does not have an inch of low floor, except the models produced after 2000s, they are noisy, swing sideways a lot and do not offer too much to the travelers). Many important lines were completely rebuilt in the last 2 decades, but there are still 1/3 of the lines that need urgent replacement. Despite that, however, and the pressure from some politicians to do away with it, one cannot imagine Bucharest without the tram system. The bus&trolleys do not have dedicated lanes, and although we have a metro system, it does not reach every point of the city, is expensive to build and takes a lot of time and nerves of the residents, as they are usually built underground (see the M5 line which took 9 years to build a chunk of it, although they promised to build it in 3 years). So there is definitely a use-case for the tram here, even in the most "American" country in Europe (sorry, no offense).
@Neuzahnstein
@Neuzahnstein Жыл бұрын
Seperated Public transit routes are very important emergency lanes (Vienna for example as well)
@PerfectPrinceX1
@PerfectPrinceX1 Жыл бұрын
what does meat in your fridge mean? lol
@catalinpetrescu8488
@catalinpetrescu8488 Жыл бұрын
​@@PerfectPrinceX1 swears basically. lots of them!
@pbriffy
@pbriffy Жыл бұрын
In San Francisco, half the time it’s a cop car double parked on the tracks…
@catalinpetrescu8488
@catalinpetrescu8488 Жыл бұрын
@@pbriffy lol
@davidty2006
@davidty2006 Жыл бұрын
Be glad Philly's tracks and wires still exist. Quite alot of places arn't as lucky to only have them abandoned....
@prplt
@prplt Жыл бұрын
alot is not a word
@billjohnson9472
@billjohnson9472 Жыл бұрын
most of the overhead wires don't exist any more; very few parts of the city still have them. The wires are a bit maintenance headache; and dangerous for large vehicles to cross.
@SmallSpoonBrigade
@SmallSpoonBrigade Жыл бұрын
@@billjohnson9472 Yes, but even where they do exist, you don't necessarily get streetcars. There were overhead wires in Seattle for the trolley buses that were relatively common until hybrid buses came along. There were even hybrid buses that could operate on either diesel or electricity for routes that needed to be electric to go through the tunnel, but they couldn't or wouldn't run those power lines for. Even with those lines in place, there wasn't much interest in streetcars and we didn't get them until some developers managed to convince the voters that it was a good idea. Newsflash, it was a horrible idea that just made the roads even less safe for bicyclists and added a ton of expense for something that serves no practical function.
@larry4111
@larry4111 Жыл бұрын
I could be wrong but when I moved to Philly in 1975 there were trolleys running up and down many of the north-south numbered streets all throughout Center City. I recall at the time being told that Philly had the distinction of having the most still-operating trolley routes of any city in America. Then I saw as, one by one, they were either paved over, tracks ripped up, or left partially in place not used anymore. At some point there was talk of removing the asphalt to expose the tracks again, or rehab existing rail, or lay new ones, which I believe did happen in places. I left in 2011 and, as you mentioned, cities all over are building trolleys where none existed. What a missed opportunity.
@1234canadianguy
@1234canadianguy Жыл бұрын
I remember when I visited Philadelphia in the summer of 2015 and saw streetcar tracks by the Reading Terminal Market in Center City. Given that I'm from Toronto, Canada where just like Philadelphia we retained our streetcar system, I was kind of looking forward to seeing a streetcar pass by, turns out it wasn't the case. This video makes sense now as to why I didn't see any trolleys in Center City, thanks Alan!
@daydreamer9888
@daydreamer9888 Жыл бұрын
It's ashame a lot of tourists don't get to see any trolleys because they head underground in West Philadelphia way before they reach Center City
@charlienyc1
@charlienyc1 Жыл бұрын
@@veonnisual Now THAT is a transit snafu!
@evemarie1605
@evemarie1605 Жыл бұрын
@@veonnisual Yes, trolleys are much better at hitting cars first.
@xuedi
@xuedi Жыл бұрын
Trams in Berlin or Prague are awesome, fast, cheap and everywhere, non of my friends even has a car anymore .... it just has to be maintained like everything ...
@xuedi
@xuedi Жыл бұрын
To the Point of parked cars, if a tram is blocked, the support tow truck is there in 10 min and it cost 300Euro fine and you have to travel forever to get back your car, so no one does dare park on the tracks ^^
@danielkelly2210
@danielkelly2210 Жыл бұрын
@@xuedi This also works with people blocking bike lanes! 😆
@johnq1753
@johnq1753 Жыл бұрын
the trams in berlin are not very reliable many times you have to wait 8-9 minutes for a tram supposed to come every 5 minutes only for 2 of them to arrive at the same time
@collect100coins
@collect100coins Жыл бұрын
@@johnq1753 Waiting only 10 minutes for transit in most of the US would be a utopia in comparison!
@lleander_
@lleander_ Жыл бұрын
@@johnq1753 LOL imagine… in my city they always arrive on time
@JulesBrunoJjBaggy
@JulesBrunoJjBaggy Жыл бұрын
Philadelphia "at least it ain't Columbus", Pennsylvania
@danielkelly2210
@danielkelly2210 Жыл бұрын
Actually, it's probably more like "at least it ain't Pittsburgh". 🤣
@nitehawk86
@nitehawk86 Жыл бұрын
@@danielkelly2210 grumbles while driving along the last set of surviving rails on Chestnut street.
@Poisson4147
@Poisson4147 Жыл бұрын
And "Pennsylvania, your Gateway to Ohio!"
@SupremeLeaderKimJong-un
@SupremeLeaderKimJong-un Жыл бұрын
We rebuilt the Pyongyang streetcar system as the original system got significant destruction during the war, with the first line opening in 1991 as the result of overcrowding on trolleybuses. There are currently four lines, operating on both sides of the Taedong but only one actually crosses it, Line 3. Line 1 uses to cross it but it was shortened to Pyongyang railway station with points east replaced with a trolleybus. Three of the lines uses trams either made in the former Czechslovakia by Tatra or in-house, while the Kumsusan shuttle line which goes to the Kumsusan mausoleum of my father and grandpa from Samhung on the Pyongyang Metro (this service has replaced the Kwangmyong metro station that's been closed since 1995 due to the site being home to the mausoleum), uses a VBZ Be 4/4 from Zurich.
@theguywithpants
@theguywithpants Жыл бұрын
My Landscape Architecture studio at Temple did a project on Temple's Main Campus and someone from OLIN told us that there are old streetcar tracks under 12th street that are unused and there are no plans to use them. Because of laws and codes changing, if they were to be removed, they could never be put back in, so the city insists they be left there, JUST in case. I'd hope to see these surface again.
@over9000andback
@over9000andback Жыл бұрын
those tracks weren’t paved until 2015. I remember lots of cyclists hitting the dirt on those tracks my years at Temple
@jesstyre5849
@jesstyre5849 Жыл бұрын
I used to ride that trolley when I was at Temple in the early 90s, up to Chestnut Hill, down to Center City, etc. Sad to see it is gone.
@Poisson4147
@Poisson4147 Жыл бұрын
@@jesstyre5849 Same here. I took that trolley when I was there in the late 70s & early 80s. At that time the Parking Authority DID have a "battering ram" truck that could push cars off the tracks. People would gather on the sidewalk and applaud when the car was gone.
@jesstyre5849
@jesstyre5849 Жыл бұрын
@@Poisson4147 I remember seeing cars pushed off the tracks too, especially in those narrow streets up in Germantown. I almost got hit by a trolley there once. They could come up on you really fast and surprise you if you weren't looking out.
@gregd9853
@gregd9853 Жыл бұрын
Parts of the tracks are still visible between Jefferson and Girard. I was surprised Philly still had trolley's when I moved here; a lot of cities sold theirs to GM back in the day so they could be ripped out to force people into buying cars.
@mf7482
@mf7482 Жыл бұрын
I'm 67 but I'm gonna say this like a teenager, it would be truly cool if they make the trolly trains, like the ones in Europe. I saw one of those proposed pics in your video with the middle of the street barrier and waiting stand, thats cool. Plus it upgrades all those decaying, delapidated, potholled streets, left that way because they can't repave them over the existing tracks.
@OnkelJajusBahn
@OnkelJajusBahn Жыл бұрын
Very interresting, yet very frustrating video. I really appreciate all the work you put into you videos. All are really high quality. Thank you.
@Yataka
@Yataka Жыл бұрын
True, I think it would be cool (and important) to talk about futur and curent transit projets in the rust belt. Don't change the fact it's a good video
@MultiRanman
@MultiRanman Жыл бұрын
Great video! Trolleybuses are great but like you mentioned Philly streets are small and double parking would still be an enormous problem. A way to fix it would be to eliminate parking on one side, but that’s a story for another time. This too is a sore spot for me as I was a child when the 6, 23, 50, 53, 56, and 60 were still trolleys. What I’ve always hoped could happen was that some west Philly bus routes were converted back to trolleys and rerouted through the subway surface tunnel. A bigger idea would be connecting some north and south Philly routes through unused tunnels like under Arch street and Pennsylvania Avenue. I think the schuylkill valley metro was to use the latter.
@broyofroyo1207
@broyofroyo1207 Жыл бұрын
I love the trolley buses
@DeltaXFish
@DeltaXFish Жыл бұрын
I will argue that the 56 trolley should come back. Very low priority project but the 56 trolley in Philadelphia does have some space for a dedicated ROW for more than half the route
@ranyamaelstrom
@ranyamaelstrom Жыл бұрын
I completely agree with this, and think that there are a few routes in Northeast Philadelphia that would be better off as trolleys, especially since the bus revolution is straightening a few out (though that would mean the laying down of new track). I think the 54 would also be a good idea for a trolley, since most of its route is spent on Lehigh Avenue, a very wide road.
@Joesolo13
@Joesolo13 Жыл бұрын
If the Feds had any sense we'd have something akin to a PCC-2 developed for the 21st century. There's many expanding light rail systems in the US, and it'd make a ridiculous amount of sense to standardize and mass-produce them.
@DeltaXFish
@DeltaXFish Жыл бұрын
@@ranyamaelstrom I almost want to argue for the 60 as well since it can link up to the 15 trolley loop
@michaelodonoghue7464
@michaelodonoghue7464 Жыл бұрын
Adelaide, South Australia had an extensive Tramway Network which mostly got Ripped out. Now it is slowly being rebuilt at huge financial cost.
@lucasred_eyes6785
@lucasred_eyes6785 Жыл бұрын
Usually I'm all for trams/trollies, but in this case I agree with you. If the city is not going to completely redesign the city center streets to be more trolley accommodating; then trolley-buses would work better in this case.
@pbilk
@pbilk Жыл бұрын
In other words (and if it makes sense to do), the city centre streets should be drastically improved. Why are we letter some things push transit around?
@SomePotato
@SomePotato Жыл бұрын
You could run them underground for some parts like any other Stadtbahn/premetro in Europe.
@WALTERBROADDUS
@WALTERBROADDUS Жыл бұрын
@@SomePotato that's not practical. Is already existing underground structure. And the expense is just off the charts. Nor is ridership particularly growing.
@WALTERBROADDUS
@WALTERBROADDUS Жыл бұрын
I would agree with you. I think folks are sort of living with rose tinted glasses and are just train fans.
@annettelaurence5716
@annettelaurence5716 Жыл бұрын
Hi Alan. Great video. The best cure for parked cars is tram (trolley) mounted anti tank gun. They will learn very quickly!!!🙃
@davidty2006
@davidty2006 Жыл бұрын
Nah you just put a cow catcher on. Then do what the trains do.
@gekquad116
@gekquad116 Жыл бұрын
Appreciate the history on why there aren’t any trolleys outside of west Philly. I’m really hopeful about the 15 being the first sign of movement back toward trolleys/trolley buses on this side of the river. Additionally, I know there is near 0 information outside of the like 90 page document for the regional rail “lifestyle” transformation but if you were to try and do a comprehensive review of Philadelphia’s transit that would be an interesting discussion of “what’s next”. Pair that with a discussion of the bus revitalization project and you’d have a better story about what SEPTA is doing than they can write.
@mrbig4532
@mrbig4532 Жыл бұрын
I’m sitting at Richmond and Westmoreland as I right this comment and they just spent millions of dollars and it took 3 years to redo the bus and trolley station but they aren’t going to run the 15 down to this remodeled station , it will go to Delaware and Frankford and turn to go back to West Philadelphia. I don’t know why they spent all of that money putting the trolley tracks back on Richmond street to not run the trolley . They also just replaced the tracks at this new station and they didn’t remove them from Richmond street yet but what’s the point of having trolley tracks with no trolleys?
@gekquad116
@gekquad116 Жыл бұрын
@@mrbig4532 the trolley itself isn’t and they’re not planning on running trolley buses either? I’m familiar with the stop but from what I’ve seen running all the way into port Richmond they have wires and tracks. It’s a damn shame if they’re not running it out here but I haven’t looked at the plan to be sure one way or another.
@mrbig4532
@mrbig4532 Жыл бұрын
@@gekquad116 it just seems like such a waste of money to relay those tracks and they just designed Richmond street making it a lot different then it previously was , they must have some type of plan to bring a trolley or tram up to the end of the line at Richmond and Westmoreland because they raised the curbs to a high height from the street at all of the stops from Allegheny Ave down to Ann street. It would really make me question whoever makes the decisions at septa if they didn’t put the trolley back onto Richmond street , the tracks were removed in the early 1990’s and then at great expense layed back down in the early 2000’s and now they don’t want to run the trolley that everyone loved by the way. I haven’t been on the south side of Allegheny Ave for a while until the other day I just avoid it because of the congestion and road work but I live in the area and I didn’t even recognize it when I saw all of the new buildings and the remodels it’ really nice down there with bars and coffe shops , restaurants are coming, and all of the old closed stores that have been sitting there for decades have all been reopened as other businesses but it looks great .
@gekquad116
@gekquad116 Жыл бұрын
@@mrbig4532 I live in the area as well and I’m down that side regularly. It is great, I’d be really surprised if they didn’t run the trolley. I did some research last night about the plans to being the trolleys back and it certainly seems like they intend to with the time scale having shifted to fall 2023 for the full line. There was a Philly Inquirer article from earlier this year on it. Part of the delays, as I understand, is the construction not being completed in Brewery town (that’s scheduled to be worked on until the end of this month) along with i95 construction (which seems to have been cleared up on Richmond) as well as waiting for the old trolleys to be renovated. We’ll see but I do believe the plans for the trolley to return are there.
@AverytheCubanAmerican
@AverytheCubanAmerican Жыл бұрын
This just reminded me of the fact that when I lived in Jersey City, there's this North Hudson Health Center right across from the Supremo supermarket and I always hated going in there because it was always packed and had a long wait eating out of my day. Later on, I learned that the building where the doctor's office is now was once a trolley house as part of the North Hudson County Railway/Public Service streetcar system, and streetcars went from Palisade Ave to either go down an elevated trestle or take a funicular wagon lift to get to Hoboken. And that made me hate it more for using the space for a doctor's office instead of trolleys. Sure, Hudson County learned from getting rid of its trolleys by building the Hudson-Bergen Light Rail, but it's not the same.
@DanTheCaptain
@DanTheCaptain Жыл бұрын
Torontonian here! Philly needs to improve and invest in their trams! If it got some TLC, it would EASILY rival Toronto and Melbourne. It’s honestly a real shame especially since everything seems to still exist. It’s truly a shame how many cities have removed their tram systems. It would be a really really big shame to see Philly become one of these other cities… Edit: Trolleybuses are also awesome! Much better than these fancy shmancy battery electric buses, and I wish Toronto kept its Trolleybus network. We can only hope there’s a future for the trams and trolleys of Philly!
@jasonjacksn
@jasonjacksn Жыл бұрын
the problem with that is SEPTA is a state agency not a city agency and the rest of the state already doesn't like how much of the state budget Philly consumes, even though we also generate most of the revenue
@benfelps
@benfelps Жыл бұрын
@@jasonjacksn the other counties that have voting rights and veto power over septa don't like funding projects that benefit the city unfortunately
@naterosen9786
@naterosen9786 Жыл бұрын
some The Learning Channel?
@adorabell4253
@adorabell4253 Жыл бұрын
@@benfelps as a Torontonian that sounds very familiar.
@robertcampbell6531
@robertcampbell6531 Жыл бұрын
Two of the trackless trolley routes 59 and 66 are actually owned by the city. Ridge Avenue was a former trackless route I used to schedule for SEPTA Bob Campbell
@nikolaradovanovic3094
@nikolaradovanovic3094 Жыл бұрын
You know you have been blessed when you refresh YT main page just to see new Alan video 30 seconds ago... Poggers
@criminalmackman2967
@criminalmackman2967 Жыл бұрын
My thoughts exactly
@samblensdorf7384
@samblensdorf7384 Жыл бұрын
Think that's depressing? In central Indiana we have about 6 old main lines, some with existing over and underpasses that have been abandoned since the 80s. Some were lucky enough to be turned into bike paths though
@davidty2006
@davidty2006 Жыл бұрын
Long as theres no housing estate built ontop it's a win.
@SirFloofy001
@SirFloofy001 Жыл бұрын
Just be glad Phily has transportation. Used to live in Indianapolis and all we had was bus lines. Do you know i lived there 2 weeks before i even saw a bus? Yeah i never even considered it a reliable form of transportation even with a bus stop across the street from my house.
@T0MT0Mmmmy
@T0MT0Mmmmy Жыл бұрын
As a German it is funny to see the trolley almost stopping at every junction. In Germany trolleys have almost everywhere, every time the right of way and traffic lights give them the right of way when they approach.
@lleander_
@lleander_ Жыл бұрын
Average america moment
@Blackpallyboi
@Blackpallyboi Жыл бұрын
As someone from Pittsburgh, I know what it's like to lose a robust Trolley system. The city used to have an extensive system that spread out from the heart of the city. Today we have busses that are fine but, less extensive and a lite rail system that only supports the neighborhoods and suburbs south of the city.
@hhvhhvcz
@hhvhhvcz Жыл бұрын
No, trolley bus is worst version of tram, period. Tire wear and tire is usually the main source of PM2.5 pollution causing the most health damage. As a European (from Prague), the nobrainer stuff do are: 1) fixing the tracks so that it doesn't look like something from former soviet union (think of Volgograd or Cherson level of awful) 2) get modern tram vehicles with pantographs 3) give trams a priority in the roadways rules (basically, on a intersection, tram has always the priority over cars and pedestrians because it's bigger, heavier and carries more people) 4) get to frequency of 10-12mins at worst on any line so that the network is remotely useful (half hour to hour frequency at night) 5) restore the old tracks and build new paralel/redundant routes so in case of dumbo parking on the tracks, the trams can go around skipping couple stops and having delay in 10mins at worst instead of 45mins
@TheGrinningViking
@TheGrinningViking Жыл бұрын
Contract out to tow companies so that cars in the way of trolly lines will be towed in under 10 minutes. Institute a hefty fine to pay for this service.
@ganz3995
@ganz3995 Жыл бұрын
Meanwhile Prague is reintroducing trolleybuses. They are cheaper and more flexible than trams. Trolleybuses are great If ridership is not enough to justify a tram.
@hhvhhvcz
@hhvhhvcz Жыл бұрын
@@ganz3995 Except trolleybuses are either temp fix for incompetence of other gov. agencies or just electrification of current bus lines in steep hills or elsewhere where it doesn't make sense to build full fledged tram tracks just yet (and if they want to, they have half of the shit ready and just have to laid down the track and move couple overhead wires)
@azion1995
@azion1995 Жыл бұрын
Trolleybuses require different infrastructure than streetcar. The former requires two catenary wires to complete a circuit, while latter uses a single wire, as the track itself is the return. So, while it's possible to convert trolley line to a trackless trolley one (streetcar line to trolleybus), it would require completely new electrical infrastructure.
@colorbugoriginals4457
@colorbugoriginals4457 Жыл бұрын
thank you for including accessibility details!! ❤️👍
@Charles-yq8vv
@Charles-yq8vv Жыл бұрын
Maybe the 15 is a harbinger of things to come? The rolling stock is almost done and the tracks are now running along Richmond St. as of this week. We need the one going up down Delaware avenue, at the least.
@gekquad116
@gekquad116 Жыл бұрын
They did move the stops over to Richmond but I don’t believe the tracks are completed over in Brewerytown based on the notifications I’ve gotten. They’re still running buses sadly but I hope that when the trolleys are done, we’ll see them rolling!
@gekquad116
@gekquad116 Жыл бұрын
Oh, and on the Delaware Avenue line, it frustrates me to no end that I see it sitting there whenever I’m on that side of the city. I cry inside every time I see it.
@Charles-yq8vv
@Charles-yq8vv Жыл бұрын
@@gekquad116 It's awful. It would take no enormous amount of effort and would be hugely beneficial for every neighborhood along the Delaware. There's so much development in that corridor!
@gekquad116
@gekquad116 Жыл бұрын
@@Charles-yq8vv there really is. Between the connection to the various bike trails, attractions up and down the coast line, and relative ease of access from center city (allowing connections via regional rail and Amtrak) it’s a damn shame we don’t make it easy for people to go up and down. It’s not like people aren’t traveling that way! The number of tourists and clueless people I’ve seen walking in the bike lane would benefit tremendously from the trolley service. Plus, it’d be a great excuse for the redevelopment of the abandoned buildings further south in Delaware.
@blise518B
@blise518B Жыл бұрын
Dual Track drifting.
@harri2626
@harri2626 Жыл бұрын
Yes, it is sad that Septa have not followed through on the old promises. Trolley buses are a better option than diesel buses, but anything which uses rubber tires is also polluting.
@RestrictedProceed
@RestrictedProceed Жыл бұрын
Steel is not polluting?
@harri2626
@harri2626 Жыл бұрын
@@RestrictedProceed The manufacturing of steel is, of course, polluting. However, steel wheels on steel rails do not wear anywhere nearly as much as tires which exude huge amounts of tiny plastic and rubber particulates into the atmosphere. These, in turn, accumulate onto the road surfaces which eventually pollute water courses and drain into rivers and seas.
@Poisson4147
@Poisson4147 Жыл бұрын
SEPTA is (in)famous for failed planning. They proposed a long exurban metro line that went near all sorts of important locations but not TO any of them. Every single trip would require a transfer to a shuttle for the last-mile part. They came up with another commuter rail system that would have cost 2-3 times as much per km as anything else planned in the country. On top of that a citizens' group looked at the plans and found that SEPTA could only run a single train back and forth because they hadn't considered scheduling conflicts.
@harveylong5878
@harveylong5878 Жыл бұрын
so a pedal bike is polluting? what do you propose tires be made out of so they wont pollute
@tokarukora7272
@tokarukora7272 Жыл бұрын
As somebody living in a city with absolutely great public transport, I can tell you: Busses are absolutely not better than trams. Trams are great. And if people park on the street, they are in for a very expensive surprise. I have 8 tram lines in a 5 min walking distance, the whole public transit network in the city is HUGE, and it transports us everywhere. Trams go every 5 to 15 min (depends on the day, there are fewer on saturdays and sundays). The trams are efficient, reliable and much faster than going by car (for most routes in the city) and since the city acknowledges the importance of public transport for the wellbeing of the city, it pays part of the fees, so people only pay 365 Euro (388 US-Dollar) per person for one year of transportation all around in the city of Vienna. It is just great. I can recommend that. Maybe you could have a look and implement something like that in America too.
@AB-wf8ek
@AB-wf8ek Жыл бұрын
I wish, Americans are really territorial when it comes to their cars, in South Philly they couldn't even get a slight decrease in road width in order to make room for bikes & pedestrians, let alone public transportation. People here in general have a huge blind spot for how much space parking takes, and generally have no sense of how much time and effort they actually spend storing 2 ton appliances on public streets. It's a huge waste and an eye sore.
@stephenlight647
@stephenlight647 Жыл бұрын
Sorry, but we spend too much on Defense. In an ideal world we would exit NATO and spend that money on domestic issues, like transit.
@Phrey
@Phrey Жыл бұрын
From what I heard the Germantown/Chestnut Hill lines didn't come back because the cost to install a new power station was to expensive.
@harveylong5878
@harveylong5878 Жыл бұрын
bah, Filthadelphia could just find more stuff to tax. cigs,booze,sugary beverages arent enough, well tax every dirt bike,four wheeler in the city. auction off the confiscated ones, confiscate them again. it's win win win all the way around
@Jeff-uj8xi
@Jeff-uj8xi Жыл бұрын
That's total and pure BS from anti-trolley SEPTA. Modern substations are compact and inexpensive.
@croatia0728
@croatia0728 Жыл бұрын
I laughed pretty hard at 1:34 , hits close to home lol. MARTA’s street car line isn’t exactly very useful at getting people anywhere, its literally just a 1-2 mile loop around tourist spots downtown. At least they’re planning to expand it up to Ponce City Market if it can get past this NIMBY protest phase its in rn.
@ethanmurdock2734
@ethanmurdock2734 Жыл бұрын
Great video, as always. Especially loved hearing The Cup Stacker
@robertwightman3725
@robertwightman3725 Жыл бұрын
I remember reading a report on the minimum turning radii for Toronto and Philadelphia trams. Toronto had the second sharpest of existing systems in North America and Philly had the sharpest, by about 3 feet. Toronto could not use an off the shelf low floor vehicle and had to have on adapted to our curves. Philly would be even harder. Also Toronto had to have the centre truck powered to be able to push a disabled car up some of our hills.
@vovinio2012
@vovinio2012 Жыл бұрын
That`s not a big issue now. Most of european tram networks have their specialities about curves, incline ets, and cars are being ordered with taking these specialities into account. When you`re ready to pay - tram producers will make anything. Even low-floor.
@evemarie1605
@evemarie1605 Жыл бұрын
In Helsinki they have trams now with articulated bogies so each bogie bends in the middle as well as the entire tram and this seems to handle tight turns very well.
@BruscoTheBoar
@BruscoTheBoar Жыл бұрын
Even Berlin had trolleybuses...but the last lines got taken out of service in east-Berlin as they tey tended to de-wire at railroad crossings. But yeah they're an awesome type of transportation that's very underused here in Europe...aside from the former soviet states and Poland.
@popelgruner595
@popelgruner595 Жыл бұрын
On the other hand we do have working street cars aka trams.
@ganz3995
@ganz3995 Жыл бұрын
Berlin is considering reintroducing trolleybuses with 15 lines in the Spandau district. Trolleybuses are common in Switzerland, Italy and all over Central and Eastern Europe so not exactly underused.
@BruscoTheBoar
@BruscoTheBoar Жыл бұрын
@@ganz3995 Berlin is thinking about reintroducing Trams in Spandau. And i don't know any system in the BeNeLux region, France, or Scandinavia. I know Salzburg in Austria has them, in Germany it's Eberswalde and Solingen...but that's it lol
@Jehty_
@Jehty_ Жыл бұрын
@@BruscoTheBoar France has trolleybusses in Saint-Étienne, Lyon and Limoges. Netherlands in Arnhem, Norway in Bergen and Sweden in Landskrona.
@lleander_
@lleander_ Жыл бұрын
@@BruscoTheBoar munich had a Trolleybus system for exactly 10 years as a temporary replacement for some tram lines because the tram lines were destroyed during the 2nd world war. They removed the Trolleybuses again when the tram lines were usable again.
@danielmisgana2672
@danielmisgana2672 Жыл бұрын
Big problem with trolley trains: doesn’t solve road maintenance. Heavy weight is why trains trolleys and trams work- gliding on girders doesn’t take much maintenance. Asphalt has to be upkept replaced/recycled constantly. It’s expensive
@rwboa22
@rwboa22 Жыл бұрын
One thing that SEPTA's current fleet of trolley buses have an advantage over the older fleet is that the buses also have a diesel engine that can be used if the route the trolley buses take is closed due to a major incident, but have not been substituted with regular buses. At the same time, much like the Subway-Surface Trolley routes, SEPTA's current Trackless Trolley routes are now just down to one, the Route 66, that operates between Frankford Transportation Center and the Frankford-Knights Circle at the Philadelphia-Bucks County Line. At one time, the system was widespread, but like the Route 23 and other surface trolley routes, were replaced regular buses. One route, Route 79 (in South Philadelphia), uses battery electric buses, but due to potential issues, is now back to hybrid buses. EDIT: I forgot that SEPTA operates two other trackless trolley routes out of the Arrott Transportation Center (the old Margaret-Orthodox station on the Market-Frankford Line), being the Route 59 to Rhawnhurst and the Route 79 to Wayne Junction and Nicetown.
@jerrycoob4750
@jerrycoob4750 Жыл бұрын
As someone who lives near Toronto and uses streetcars every now and again, seeing potential reopened routes in Philly end up decaying and get built over is so frustrating! Philadelphia deserves way better than this.
@edwardbrown3721
@edwardbrown3721 Жыл бұрын
In Montevideo, Uruguay you randomly see tracks peeking out of the asphalt all the time, at least we have a bunch of bus lines but sometimes I wish we had more alternatives
@iananderson5050
@iananderson5050 Жыл бұрын
Bruh at least you still have trolleys there. Pittsburgh's light rail has been downsized to basically 2 crappy lines that have the utility of a minecart on a thousand acre farm.
@someoneelse7629
@someoneelse7629 Жыл бұрын
Trolly-buses are so freaking smart, especially combined with a smallish battery bank/supecapacitor bank giving them the possibility to reroute around problems on the line and the overhead cables doesn't need to go round corners. Here they have battery busses on the short flat routes they can manage, and diesels on all other routes. Well into the city the routes merge and runs along a few streets that easily could be electrifyed
@nitehawk86
@nitehawk86 Жыл бұрын
I am surprised we don't see more "trolley problem" references that are about actual trolleys.
@luislaplume8261
@luislaplume8261 Жыл бұрын
Philadelphia has the same attitude that NYC had when it decided along with the Philadelphia mayors, and city council in not bothering to have their representatives in the state legislature and in Congress to fund the trolley lines and improve them. The last trolley line in NYC was also the last trolley line in New York State ended in April 1957, the Queensborough Bridge Railway.
@dougadkins7006
@dougadkins7006 Жыл бұрын
Cost for NYC is likely one of the reasons the city moved away from trolley lines. The subway system is second to none and probably contributed to the city not looking back. Places like Staten Island, Queens, Part of Brooklyn, and northern parts of the Bronx could use trolley lines. Philly might have had the same attitude as NYC but lacked the funding to expand its subway system to cover some of the losses of the trolley lines.
@harveylong5878
@harveylong5878 Жыл бұрын
taxing cigs, sugary beverages are more important. how else is Filthadelphia supposed to fund council members destination vacations, buy their McMansions etc
@tejida815
@tejida815 Жыл бұрын
Philadelphia politicians have to deal with representatives of the rest of the state who tend to hate cities. Philadelphia just won a court case to try to get equal funding for our schools. 😕
@whoandgo
@whoandgo Жыл бұрын
dawg i been ITCHING for a new video from you . Good LAWD.
@SebisRandomTech
@SebisRandomTech Жыл бұрын
Pittsburgh can join the club. Aside from a few lines in the South Hills our trolley network was ran into the ground by Port Authority. 2 of the remaining lines might be cut as the result of a “best use study”…
@magnushultgrenhtc
@magnushultgrenhtc Жыл бұрын
All the rolling stock in the video looks like it could be replaced by a single bus. That's probably part of why that is happening (chicken vs. egg...). One point with trams is that connecting multiple cars increases capacity without having to hire a second driver.
@laurencefraser
@laurencefraser Жыл бұрын
of course, another is that trams are just flat out cheaper to run (certainly per passenger) due to lower fuel and maintenance costs. This is pretty much always true of electric vehicles (especiall those that draw their power from overhead wires), the bit that keeps getting it put of is that it's more expensive to set up.
@Poisson4147
@Poisson4147 Жыл бұрын
@@laurencefraser Exactly. When a city is strapped for cash, buying buses at 1/2 or 1/3 of the cost of a tram is a tough sell. It's easier for the system to come back in 10 years and ask for more money to replace them, versus the higher up-front costs of trams even though they might keep running for 30-40 years.
@clippychan530
@clippychan530 Жыл бұрын
the worst thing about the trolleys is that they share their space with cars. I live near media and it's a nightmare to drive down state st when the trolley is running, the roads are too narrow to pull over, especially because there is street parking on both sides of the road. Things would run way smoother if the tracks took up one side of the road rather than going down the middle.
@T0MT0Mmmmy
@T0MT0Mmmmy Жыл бұрын
This comes only from people who thinks streets are only for them and their cars. No, streets are for all citizens, and when people want to travel in trolleys you have to respect and share space, even when it makes your journey slower.
@clippychan530
@clippychan530 Жыл бұрын
@@T0MT0Mmmmy I totally agree! I think I worded my comment a little bit weirdly. I'm not bothered that I need to pull over for the trolley, I'm bothered that there is no space to pull over to let it pass. it clogs up the roads when the trolley is trying to move and drivers have nowhere to go. In hindsight, I think a better solution is wider roads or no street parking in spaces with trolleys.
@lleander_
@lleander_ Жыл бұрын
In my city, the trams get their own lanes on every new line
@paulallenk4830
@paulallenk4830 Жыл бұрын
Great video. Worst part of unused trolly tracks for me is how dangerous they are for bicyclist. It's why I switched to a mountain bike with wider tires.
@brandongibb3093
@brandongibb3093 Жыл бұрын
Wow. Streetcar situation in Philadelphia is worse than ours in Toronto. But mismanagement strikes here too. They recently bought 200 cars from failed Canadian firm Bombardier transportation. But most of them have welding issues so they have to go back to the plant in T-Bay to be fixed. Another problem is we used to have 260 cars so now one or two routes are always in bustitution because there aren't enough cars. They bought another 60 cars but now Bombardier is owned by Alstom and the public doesn't really know when we're going to get them. The TTC is also always doing huge infrastructure work, new rail or my favourite "Pantograph Conversion" Which is generally a good thing. But it has left many routes on long detours or cut back for years at a time. When construction starts on the new Ontario Line subway the 501 will be detoured for probably close to 15 years, if our experience with the Eglinton LRT, which now has no completion date, is any kind of foreshadowing.
@jacktattersall9457
@jacktattersall9457 Жыл бұрын
It shouldn't be that bad. The welding repairs are mostly done. Alstom should get the 60 additional streetcars to TTC by 2024 - 2025. Hopefully Metrolinx learns its lesson with Eglinton LRT, and Ontario Line goes better. There have been more bidders for Ontario Line's smaller contracts, while Eglinton LRT only had 2 bidders for the giant PPP which isn't a lot of competition.
@evemarie1605
@evemarie1605 Жыл бұрын
"bustitution""- ha, ha, ha, a new transit word, I love it!
@johnslyfield5096
@johnslyfield5096 Жыл бұрын
Trackless trolleys (we call them that in king county metro as well) are amazing! They are all electric and can get around obstacles! They are so fun to ride too
@sebastienhardinger4149
@sebastienhardinger4149 Жыл бұрын
Love the philly videos keep them coming. Fully agree about trolleybuses, and frustrating to see Septa doubling down on battery electric when we already have the infrastructure there. We've got a crappy subway system compared to Boston, NYC, Chicago, and DC, and that's not gonna change anytime soon (my kingdom for ambitious city leadership), but we have the bones for a better transit system overall. And I def credit SEPTA for the trolley/bus/RR modernization plans - for an underfunded agency they are doing smart stuff with the money they have and (mostly) not doing vaporware nonsense I live right by the Girard station trolley stop you have pictured at 5:25. I am so excited for that street to be completely redesigned. A bonus - see the low, single story bank building behind the light rail car? That's going to be converted to an apartment block. Good things are happening in Philadelphia!
@no_name4796
@no_name4796 Жыл бұрын
6:17 when bike lanes are so good even public transport runs over them 😑
@cityonahilltours
@cityonahilltours Жыл бұрын
I'd be interested to hear your analysis of the MBTA Green Line, the light rail of Boston's system. The E branch shares roadway with cars for one terrifying stretch of road, and its the last place in the system where this still occurs. But the MBTA just opened its first expansion in over 30 years, the extension of the Green Line to Medford/Tufts University. The tunnel that the green line is funneled into under downtown is the first subway tunnel in the western hemisphere!
@luislaplume8261
@luislaplume8261 Жыл бұрын
Us New Yorkers would call it a trolley tunnel not a subway. For us a subway has trains.
@cityonahilltours
@cityonahilltours Жыл бұрын
@@luislaplume8261 it was a trolley tunnel, our other three lines are heavy rail “New York style” subway tunnels. The green line tunnel was a way of funneling street trolleys under the downtown streets when NYC tried elevated lines instead
@MarioFanGamer659
@MarioFanGamer659 Жыл бұрын
@@cityonahilltours And what's more, the orange and blue lines started out like the green line and had trolleys instead of full-sized trains (that's also the reason both use narrower trains compared to the red line which is build closer to the standards of NYC Subway).
@jm-bv1wh
@jm-bv1wh Жыл бұрын
This video really hit home with me - at the 6:22 mark, it shows the stop at Levick St. where I got off the #66 trackless trolley as the last leg of my trip home from the Philly airport yesterday morning - Airport Regional Rail to Jefferson Station, MFL to FTC , Rt. #66 to home. What outrages me is that the Airport Regional Rail has only hourly service on the weekends. That is unacceptable for a major airport. Weekday service is every half-hour, but every 15 minutes would be better. Any thoughts on ways to pressure SEPTA to provide better weekend service to the airport? I keep thinking that the airport would be better served by more frequent Light Rail service as in Portland, or more frequent heavy rail as provided in Atlanta and San Francisco. It should be possible to provide a type of fully or partially automated service that is dedicated for the airport line, using the same tracks and number of stops that exist now. I wasn't aware of the plan to modernize the present trolley system. Where can I find information on that? Thanks.
@imalt8271
@imalt8271 Жыл бұрын
I am a 76 year old who was born and raised in Philadelphia but no longer lives in the area. I loved the trolley rides and rode the 15 and the 47 quite often. I even rode the 8 before it became a bus route. Too bad they are not all still in use.
@jonathanstensberg
@jonathanstensberg Жыл бұрын
You know what else needs to be fixed? The friggin trolley diversion to 40th St. That entire are of West Philly becomes a traffic nightmare, the transit slows to a crawl, and the trolley’s bunch up as they vainly attempt a 3 mph left turn across traffic. I realize this is supposed to be the little-used backup route, but my goodness it is terrible.
@StrawPlayz1
@StrawPlayz1 Жыл бұрын
They used to have trackless trolley options in center city (the 79 & 29) but that was eliminated a long time ago
@astrosquirrel08108
@astrosquirrel08108 Жыл бұрын
Neither of those routes are anywhere near center city
@yabbadabbadoo8225
@yabbadabbadoo8225 Жыл бұрын
Blown to bits during WW2 and restored before 1950, the German Trams are awesome
@Thelaretus
@Thelaretus Жыл бұрын
São Paulo-SP, Brazil has trolleybuses too. They're great.
@rbrearey
@rbrearey Жыл бұрын
I lived near 1 of those trolley routes. They spent money upgrading the tracks and raising the bed. They ran it for about a year then went back to buses. All that new raised bed was torn up
@harveylong5878
@harveylong5878 Жыл бұрын
that's Filthadelphia for you. spend money on this project only to abandon it shortly there after.
@pennyforyourthots
@pennyforyourthots Жыл бұрын
I remember I used to go visit my aunt in south Philly (I think, it's been a while) all the time when I was a kid (around 2005-8ish) and every single time I would ask my dad what the "train tracks on the road before" or get really excited at the occasional (but very rare) trolley I would see pass by. At the very least I wish they were preserved as some sort of historical monument, make it like a route that Tourists can follow or something, but really I just want trolley buses back. Not only are they really cool, but driving in Philly is hell (that and as a poverty rate of like 30%, so it's probably one of the US cities that would be helped the most by public transportation infrastructure)
@gio160
@gio160 Жыл бұрын
It might’ve been in the north or the west, south Philly hadn’t had a trolley since 1992
@ultimatevixn
@ultimatevixn Жыл бұрын
I dont know why you would want to drive in center city anyway. you can't go fast even though people try. The streets are too narrow. there's always delivery trucks, cabs, uber, lyft, etc. people walk without looking.
@markstott6689
@markstott6689 Жыл бұрын
OMG! There's a Yeadon in Philadelphia. I thought that the only Yeadon was the one near me in Yorkshire. Mind you, ours is likely the original.
@ranyamaelstrom
@ranyamaelstrom Жыл бұрын
ours is small and has a weird obsession with a thing nobody really cares about called flag day, a super minor holiday that the town uses in its marketing to try to get people to go to it despite the fact that there is nothing to do in Yeadon
@davidturner5023
@davidturner5023 Жыл бұрын
@@ranyamaelstrom But Yeadon is a small decent middle class ressidential community just outside Philly
@Poisson4147
@Poisson4147 Жыл бұрын
Early settlers simply brought names with them. We have a lot of Welsh names (Uwchlan, Tredyffrin), a Chester County and a Bucks County, and loads more. No originality at all, I guess.
@markstott6689
@markstott6689 Жыл бұрын
@@Poisson4147 Probably a little homesickness too?
@Poisson4147
@Poisson4147 Жыл бұрын
@@markstott6689 I'm absolutely sure of that. I've visited both Buckinghamshire in the UK and Bucks County in the US. There are enough similarities in their landscapes that I can easily see why early settlers might have chosen the name.
@jackcalzaretta
@jackcalzaretta Жыл бұрын
love my tasker/passyunk feature at the end!
@velikiradojica
@velikiradojica Жыл бұрын
That trolley looks an awful lot like a tram...
@wheeliebeast7679
@wheeliebeast7679 Жыл бұрын
It's a matter of semantics. What Europeans call trams are in the USA referred to as streetcars or trolleys, depending on the local parlance.
@raddiksan6455
@raddiksan6455 Жыл бұрын
SEPTA owns the rail all the way up to Coopersburg. Man I sure was happy to find out I couldn't just take the train into philly from ABE since they got rid of that in the 80s, and then also that when I got to where I was staying near Gerard collage, the trolley wasn't running down Gerard ave anymore, and in fact the entire avenue was torn up.
@ranyamaelstrom
@ranyamaelstrom Жыл бұрын
I thought the rail ended in Quakertown because of rail trails
@raddiksan6455
@raddiksan6455 Жыл бұрын
@@ranyamaelstrom They are being removed to put in the rail trails.
@MrHeff
@MrHeff Жыл бұрын
Please do a video on Winnipeg’s broken transit system!
@evemarie1605
@evemarie1605 Жыл бұрын
Winnipeg has a public transit system?
@deby5983
@deby5983 Жыл бұрын
@5:13 -- I remember those street cars whenever I visited family in NE Philly in the early 60's! They'd run down Frankford Ave and we basically used them to go shopping. I don't even remember seeing buses back when I was 5 --- just those cool trolleys. (of course in later years, yeah, I saw buses, traveled on subway). Side note: the 'water ice' and soft pretzels I got there as a kid...decades later I can say, no one did those better than Philly - I still remember the glorious taste from many decades past!!!
@CaseysTrains
@CaseysTrains Жыл бұрын
It should be noted under said Modernization Plan there would be the following addition of track: -15 Extension to 69th Street Transportation Ctr. -34 Extension to East Lansdowne (Terminal tbd) -36 Extension to Eastwick Station -102 Extension to Darby Transportation Ctr via Street-Running on Chester Pike. -New Depot off the 36 at Greys and 41st St for all new LRVs -Rebuilt Darby Terminal with 3 tracks for the 11, 13 and 102. Personally, I'm looking forward to the 15 and 102 extensions as it would finally physically connect the City Trolley Lines to the Suburban and it would make it easier to move around cars. All of the new "bendy" trolleys who are coming in will be double-ended so they can be used universally. Also Darby, East Lansdowne and Eastwick Terminals are slanted to be regular end sidings, no Loops.
@Poisson4147
@Poisson4147 Жыл бұрын
There are also proposals (not necessarily on any list yet) to extend the 10 to the Overbrook station on the RRD, and do something similar with the 101 to meet the Media RRD station.
@theoccasionalsnickerdoodle2525
@theoccasionalsnickerdoodle2525 Жыл бұрын
Bro it's insane how nice the tracks are on the mainline, but I never see them being used and it makes me so sad
@elizabethdavis1696
@elizabethdavis1696 Жыл бұрын
4:49 you mentioned their trolley modernization. Please do a video explaining what they are planning on doing.
@phillywawadrinker
@phillywawadrinker Жыл бұрын
planning.septa.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/SEPTA-TrolleyMod_ProgramGoals.pdf
@Poisson4147
@Poisson4147 Жыл бұрын
There's info on SEPTA's website. planning.septa.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/SEPTA-TrolleyMod_ProgramGoals.pdf
@elizabethdavis1696
@elizabethdavis1696 Жыл бұрын
Thank you
@jdillon8360
@jdillon8360 Жыл бұрын
As a Melbournian living in Santiago, Chile, I've gone from a city with one of the largest tram networks in the world to a city with absolutely zero trams. The worst part is there are still tracks on many streets, but trams haven't run here since the 1950s or thereabouts. There is a pretty decent metro system here though, so that's nice. Although it gets crazy crowded so that's not so fun.
@Slimee44
@Slimee44 Жыл бұрын
Was great seeing the 59! Used to ride that as a kid to get to school every morning back in the early and mid 90s
@lewizzrocks
@lewizzrocks Жыл бұрын
San Francisco retained its streetcar system. It has a tourist corridor as well as routes in residential neighborhoods. The tourist corridor (market street-Embarcadero) has amazing city and bay views.
@Poisson4147
@Poisson4147 Жыл бұрын
Not only that, they have a bunch of rehabbed Philly streetcars that SEPTA refused to fix.
@Bobrogers99
@Bobrogers99 Жыл бұрын
Many years ago in my former neighborhood of Boston (West Roxbury) the old trolleys were replaced with trackless trolleys, appreciated because they could pick up at the curb. However, there was one long hill on the route, and in winter they slid out of range of their overhead wires. I was told they couldn't use tire chains (still in common use at that time) because of a grounding issue. Eventually they were replaced with noisy, smelly diesel buses.
@stephenlight647
@stephenlight647 Жыл бұрын
My family’s first ‘suburban’ house was in West Roxbury. The number of Trolley’s running around Boston and the inner suburbs was amazing. It would have been better to keep them, but that was not to be…
@TeddyT6
@TeddyT6 Жыл бұрын
The trolleys actually only run in West and Southwest, and Center City Philly. The Route 15 on Girard Avenue, they are talking about bringing the cars back at some point. Swpta was fixing the rails in a recent project but no set date fir the return.
@finnlavelle637
@finnlavelle637 Жыл бұрын
Great video Alan. You’re the 🐐
@thomaswalsh499
@thomaswalsh499 Жыл бұрын
could u make a video on how to make the 43 pennsylvanian better aint no way it should take 7 hours philly to Pittsburgh
@anthonysnyder1152
@anthonysnyder1152 Жыл бұрын
Interesting to see the evolution of trolleys in Philly vs San Francisco. SF's street car & cable car turned into a modern light rail metro system with 2 subway tunnels and 6 lines. While it looks like Philly sorta kept the lines but never really improved service.
@johnfortune9190
@johnfortune9190 Жыл бұрын
Philadelphia (SEPTA) once had the nation's longest and world's longest trolley route. The 23 Trolley. Now broken in half by two bus routes 23 and 45.
@The_Cannabis_Connoisseur
@The_Cannabis_Connoisseur Жыл бұрын
They got rid of all the trolleys in South Philly and the buses with electric trolley wires overhead! I used to live on 10th & Oregon Ave in the late 80's and early 90's where the 23 trolley would turn and be loud and would spark when turning. I'm glad they are gone the tracks make driving horrible
@jhrusa8125
@jhrusa8125 Жыл бұрын
Their switching the whole fleet over to electric busses so what's the problem?
@Poisson4147
@Poisson4147 Жыл бұрын
They're* switching to hybrid buses*, not fully electric ones. They've tried battery buses and it didn't work out due to harsh weather in the northeast part of the country, among other reasons.
@Gryphonisle
@Gryphonisle Жыл бұрын
I find it amazing that parked cars blocking streetcars are taken for granted. Why? Why should a transit system be planned around badly parked cars? Portland and San Francisco often have painted clearance lines, parking anywhere inside is clear, anything over or outside can get you a good fine or a tow and as a result, while there are times where a blocked streetcar has to blow its horn in a quiet neighborhood to bring out the planet gang rapist to take his effin car off the clearance zone, most of the time folks know where to park, even when the “clearance line” in SF is merely a crack between the concrete underneath the asphalt and the rest of the lane. And, it would seem MOST frustrating that you have what you have when once, long before 1990, a transit system that had streetcars on 90% of its N/S streets and 50% of its E/W streets. THAT was a system! But really, STOP treating the entitlement of cars and their drivers as a given. It’s time to start demanding laws that knock some sense into drivers, and remind them that driving is a privilege not a right and they have no entitlement, tthey do not own the road and moreover, should start losing their licenses for infractions that endanger other motorists, and especially pedestrians and cyclists. Stripping motorists of their entitlement has to start somewhere and videos like this should stop treating the bad habits of drivers as some sort of law of nature.
@Poisson4147
@Poisson4147 Жыл бұрын
Philly used to do that years ago. I went to school at Temple and took the 23 on 11th and 12th streets. If a car was blocking the tracks the PPA would send out a special truck with a big "pusher" on the front. If they damaged the car, tough shit. Then the yuppie types started complaining so the practice was abandoned.
@lamelama22
@lamelama22 Жыл бұрын
Reminds me of when I was living in Boston... there's B, C, D, & E trolley lines, and it was super interesting to find older maps with an A line & an extended E line. Most of the trolleys run underground or in a separate area in the middle of the road, but a portion of the E line used to run in the streets. The E line originally ran like 2x as far & connected out to the main elevated/underground line, and it was really funny, they "temporarily" suspended the E line service, but then they renovated / built a whole new station for the end terminal of the E line, Arborway, that sat unused for over a decade before they started using it for buses instead. I think they finally just demolished it & are going to build a commuter parking garage. While I was there, a bunch of local businesses got really fed up with the conditions of some of the roads with the trolley lines, and just paved over the trolley lines & roads themselves, lol. The MBTA got really upset but ultimately didn't do anything. Sadder was the A line, which I researched a little bit. There's this big curve in the B line where it sharply turns, and that's where the old A line kept running straight. Turns out, they shut down the A line service, but still had to keep all of the lines & infrastructure up & running for like 20 years, because the trolley repair depot was at the end of the A line, so they were running trolleys out there all night for work... just horrible mismanagement. Nowadays, they filled in the area with some greenery in the middle of the road; which looks nice I guess, but seems like a waste of space. And there's a lot of old businesses & buildings that were obviously built along the line now abandoned or decaying.
@Anthony-zc7df
@Anthony-zc7df Жыл бұрын
I live in Philly now so I’m loving this content!
@Westlander857
@Westlander857 Жыл бұрын
Philly 🤝 Boston 🤝 NOLA 🤝 SF: Keeping their trolley systems and resisting car dependency and suburban sprawl But they have to learn from the failures of other cities and continue long term investment and maintenance of them, otherwise there’s no point.
@gio160
@gio160 Жыл бұрын
LOL definitely not SF for that last part
@AJGeeTV
@AJGeeTV Жыл бұрын
Interesting video from a European point of view. We would be horrified if tracks were ripped up, in Europe more are being installed, even in England. I wasn't aware that in the US that Trams are called Trolleys. A trolley for Brits is what you put your shopping in at the supermarket! 🙂
@Poisson4147
@Poisson4147 Жыл бұрын
The US term dates back to the late 19th century when early electric transit got its power via boxy things that ran along the overhead wires. They were called "trollers", and the name stuck even when they were replaced by poles and pantographs.
@evemarie1605
@evemarie1605 Жыл бұрын
@@Poisson4147 They actually originally had little wheels on the end of the trolley poles (after the "trollers") but these kept jamming so later they switched to using carbon "shoes" which wear out every few days so they need to keep replacing them.
@Poisson4147
@Poisson4147 Жыл бұрын
@@evemarie1605 Exactly. And now most systems are switching to pantographs that are much less likely to dewire. One of my professors was a guy who was also a trolley expert and modeller. His wrote articles/books about traction under the pen name Eric LaNal. That was decades ago and I'm still grateful for what I learned from him.
@JohnnyWishbone85
@JohnnyWishbone85 8 ай бұрын
One of the most charming quirks of this channel is how *aggressively* Philadelphian it is, and what makes it a *great* channel is how it leverages this extremely narrow context to make excellent points about transit in general.
@tld8102
@tld8102 Жыл бұрын
the city seems to have so much potential with the infrastructure in place. the neglect and under investment is letting everyone down
@JohnSmith-vm5cv
@JohnSmith-vm5cv Жыл бұрын
It would be really nice for the Philadelphia suburb rail trip times to be sped up. I took the Lansdale/Doylestown line from Doylestown and it took an hour and a half to 30th Street. Would be really nice to speed up all rail lines tbh.
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