It bothers me so much that Elsa is treated like the badass sister because she’s single, has a pretty dress, and powers but it’s Anna who drives the plot, saves the day, has character development and just is a better more well rounded character.

Elsa's entire character revolved around her trauma in the first movie, and it literally never gets resolved. She just says "oh yeah, love," and then everything is solved. There was no healing process or realizing that what she was doing was bad or apologies to Anna or anything like that. it bums me the hell out.

Looking at the behind the scenes animation of Elsa being an edgy villain, I much would have preferred that version of her. It would have been more interesting.

Can I rant for a minute about how much I hate Anna and Elsa's mother? Because I *hate* her. She is one of the worst mothers in all of Disney's canon. We *see* her watching the father’s method for dealing with Elsa's powers and recognizing that it isn’t working and she does *nothing.* You'd think after a year or two (or five) of watching Elsa become more afraid of her powers and turning into an anxious mess that the mom would step up and say to the dad, "No. We're not doing this *anymore.* We've tried your way, it hasn’t worked, we're doing something else." Instead she just stands by looking worried.

Elsa's whole arc in the second movie is basically just "abandoning my sister is self-care, actually." Like, she didn't even go to Anna's coronation? _Excuse me?!_ It just feels so unnecessary and selfish.

Literally the only reason why little girls swooned over Elsa is because she's prettier than Anna and has superpowers. How critics could claim that Elsa was empowering is beyond me. Ariel taught girls to fight for their passion, Jasmine taught girls that femininity is power and must be treated with respect and honesty rather than as a trophy, Megara taught girls that a broken heart can be healed, Mulan taught girls that what they lack in muscles can be made up for with brains. Heck, Captain Amelia from Treasure Planet taught girls that accepting help does not make them weak. Elsa is not a role model in any way.

I always find it horrible that Elsa never appologises for: leaving the villagers in a blizzard which almost kill them, freezing Anna's heart, making a giant monster to chase her sister because Elsa refuses her help ( she could just talked to her or pushed her but i guess the queen was too stressed to think about it ) leaving Anna and Olaf on a river surrounded by rock giants who could KILL Anna. If she cares about her sister, Elsa would appologise or at least realised that all this was cruel. I am supposed to find her charming and kind? Nope, can't happen! She did more wrong things than good ones. Oh and NOT going to her sister's corronation, that was so impolite 😠

I saw an interesting fan theory on this topic: "The animated film, conceived as an adaptation of "The Snow Queen," broke with all of Disney's traditions by having the first love of Princess Anna turn out to be unhappy. I think there's no need to fear spoilers - everyone who wanted to watch it has probably seen it by now - so I'll remind you: Prince Hans, who seemed genuine and charming, suddenly revealed himself as a cynical opportunist and callously left Anna to die from the icy curse. We all know that love at first sight rarely turns out successful in real life. But in the Disney world, there are different rules - and these rules were suddenly broken. If you take a closer look, Hans' betrayal leaves a huge number of plot holes. Starting with the song. Yes, apart from the rule that "love at first sight is always true" in the Disney world, there's another steadfast rule. A villain may pretend to be good in words, but they will always reveal themselves in song. As soon as the music starts, the true feelings and intentions of the characters come to the surface. Now, in the duet of Hans and Anna, there's nothing of the sort. It's an entirely sincere song of two lovers who are not yet accustomed to each other, who don't yet know each other well, but already feel that they are meant to be together. And all the rest of the time, Prince Hans behaves exactly in line with this characteristic. He organizes warm meals for the townspeople, personally leads the rescue operation - in short, acts like a kind, intelligent, and responsible person. If he was planning to kill Elsa and become king from the very beginning, then why does he save her life twice, in situations where her death could never be blamed on him? Why does he convince her to snap out of it and take responsibility for her actions? Whether she were killed by the Duke's mercenaries or renounced the throne and locked herself in her ice castle, it would have served his plans much better. Even his refusal to kiss Anna to save her doesn't align with the plans he immediately reveals afterward. If the kiss had worked, Hans - who was practically the ruler of Arendelle - would have become the legitimate prince consort and would have gotten a young, beautiful wife who not only was head over heels in love with him but also idolized him for saving her. If not, he could have said with a clear conscience that he did everything within his power. The impression is that Hans is sincere and genuine all along. But at the moment he leans in to kiss Anna, he changes beyond recognition, turning into a full-blown psychopath. As if his own heart was frozen in an instant. And now the question. Is there someone in the movie who is capable of reshaping someone's mind and memory as they wish, and who easily controls ice magic? Yes, there is. It's the trolls - the "greatest love experts," as Kristoff describes them. It was they who erased Anna's memory of her sister's power right from the start, completely rewriting all of her childhood memories. And it was on their advice that Elsa was doomed to solitude, which nearly drove her mad and nearly turned her into a full-fledged evil queen. In short, trolls are doing their best to eliminate the older sister - the possessor of dangerous power - and make the kind, naive Anna the queen. They want to marry her off to a man they once abducted and raised as their own. By the way, Kristoff is nothing like a typical Disney prince. He's a good-natured, easygoing guy, more like Pumbaa or Pacha from other movies - a typical sidekick to the hero, not destined to win the beauty or achieve great feats. He's a bit rough around the edges, not overly smart, and neglects personal hygiene. There's no immediate connection or mutual understanding between him and Anna, unlike the quick rapport that forms between Anna and Hans. Remember what I said from the very beginning? In the world of Disney, a villain always reveals themselves through song. And here we have the trolls' song. First of all, it's cheerful and full of life. The trolls don't care that the girl they're dancing around is dying. They're celebrating the fact that they're finally getting what they want. Secondly, they openly sing about how Anna's engagement doesn't matter and that her fiancé needs to be eliminated. True feelings and intentions come to the surface with the sound of music. Asking Anna or Kristoff what they think doesn't even cross the trolls' minds - they've already made up their minds. Hans is the only obstacle in their way. And as soon as he leans in towards Anna, his memory gets rewritten. He no longer remembers loving her. He doesn't remember trying to save Elsa. He remembers only what pleases the trolls. How did they do this? Trolls have ice magic - they demonstrated it by healing Anna at the very beginning. They could have manipulated the icy spell in her heart to strike the one who loves her. In the finale, when Elsa finds the key to her power and ends the eternal winter, all the heroes gathered on the ship celebrate. Only Hans stands in complete confusion. It's not the look of a defeated villain. It's the look of a man who has come to his senses and doesn't understand what just happened. The magic that turned him into a psychopath dissipates along with all of Elsa's other magic. Anna slaps him in the face, saying, "The only one here with a frozen heart is you!" The poor girl doesn't even realize how right she is..."

Elsa was the golden child of her family yet Anna was never jealous of Elsa. That is one good thing about Frozen.

As a kid, I initially decided Anna was my favorite because she deserved more credit and Elsa was too popular. After years of analysis, I realized it stemmed a lot deeper than just that.

Sounds like the original plan for Elsa was to show the perspective of "feeling like a burden" for being a family member with mental illness, which is a story that a lot of people like me needed while growing up.

Vannellopee and Elsa basically had the same story arc of literally leaving their kingdom for their own selfish reasons. A great message for kids: leave all your responsibilities as long as you're happy.

I don’t hate Elsa but I also don’t really feel much toward her outside of the horrible abuse she suffered as a child. Her parents mistakenly filled her head with so much pain, grief and self loathing that she became a nervous wreck and hermit. And that to me solidifies why Elsa should have been the villain of this series. Disney loves to have its “complex” villains and yet when they actually have the set up for one, they ruin it and make Hans the villain for absolutely NO REASON. Elsa could have one the supposed three dimensional villain Disney has been trying and failing to make with all their remakes. She was such a wasted opportunity. If the point of Elsa’s arc was to teach her to love again, she gets over that trauma faster than she turned the kingdom to ice and it doesn’t feel earned. And then in the second movie, she just goes back to being a hermit again and nothing is learned. Elsa was just a character the writers had no idea what to do with and not making her the villain was a huge mistake.

I work as a Disney princess for parties, events, weddings, etc. One of the characters I play most often is Anna. The amount of little girls who have flat out said to me that Elsa is their favorite. Sometimes they explain why and most of the time it is because she has powers or has a cooler dress than Anna. I was a little older than the target audience when Frozen first came out so I can’t comment on it from their POV. However Tangled came out when I was about their age. I couldn’t tell you all the reasons why she was a great character or vocalize my thoughts as well as I can now. However, It didn’t have as much to do with her powers as it had to do with how she used them, she healed people. I also love that the writing skipped over the overused trope of “uh oh I have powers what do I do with them”. Also I love how she used her hair (even without powers) as an extension of herself. Similar to an octopus almost, how she uses it to get around her tower, a swing, a weapon of defense, etc. However when you took that away whether it was it being in a braid or cut, I still thought she was an amazing character. She had so much personality, love, and saw the world in such a beautiful way. She didn’t have the coolest dress or biggest ball gown, she didn’t even have shoes but I fell in love with her. I can’t say the same for Elsa. I also play Rapunzel quite often and kids have so many different things they love about her. She paints, she has a chameleon, she has a frying pan, she is funny, etc. I don’t get that same reaction from little girls when discussing Elsa

Instead of Hans just flipping the evil switch, they could have had the "true love's kiss" moment, and it just doesn't work, because they have only just met each other. It makes Hans more consistent, because it's not that he's just suddenly evil, it's just not love. You can then still have the the familial love be what saves Anna. You can still have Anna and Kristoff, without villainizing Hans.

I wish they would elaborate more on Elsa's "mental illness", because as is, I haven't seen anyone explicitly say what she's suffering from except trauma which is such a blanket term it feels like a cop out. As someone with avoidant personality disorder, I relate to the urge to shut people out and do everything yourself. But her character is so plot-driven and makes no sense, it's infuriating. Not to mention I don't like the idea that her going on her own was the right thing to do, in both the first and second movies. People need people. Imagine the direction they could have taken if they actually cared about creating a truly nuanced dialogue around mental health.

I think that the Broadway version of Frozen makes Elsa a significantly better character. It gives her a clear reason for locking herself away(The trolls show her a vision of the future that makes her believe that her powers will lead to the death of everyone she cares about), shows her desperately wanting to reconnect with Anna, but being to afraid of what will happen if she does, and shows her actually feeling remorseful over what she's done to a point of considering suicide(she lets herself be captured instead though because she's afraid that the storm will get worse if she dies before fixing it). I really wish they would've fixed Hans in the musical too, but for some reason they decided to keep him as a twist villain instead

i think this movie should have been a tightly written family drama, no villain needed. just the two girls struggling with the damage their parents inflicted with the best intentions. I don't mind Hans, but perhaps rather than a twist, a realisation that she cared for him, but it wasn't love would have been enough to make him meaningful. I think Christof is not needed in the story, and the few things he does do that are truly meaningful could have been transferred to one of the remaining characters, like olaf and anna herself

You're supposed to hate the parents. Not familiar with the second film, but a friend of mine grew up with a story of Scandinavian origin. Can't find it as it was passed down verbally and not in English, but it's virtually the same plot and it isn't the snow queen. It was a cautionary tale to parents about two princesses. One inherited an ice power that generally skips a generation. Her parents were afraid of the power and when she accidentally hurt her sister they freaked and brought her to the elders (not my little pony trolls). The elders said if they made her afraid of herself she would go mad and become violent. She needed to embrace herself and learn self control. They too ignored it like the movie and Paid for it. When she grew up, she went so insane that she murders her parents at sea with an ice wave, panics, tells no one and shuts down the kingdom upon becoming queen. A suspicious merchant (don't think a Duke) uncovers her secret and dies, she runs away, leaving the kingdom icy cold in her wake. Her sister chases after her, out of love, but is impaled through the heart with a shard of ice. The people learn of this, revolt, and start a war to kill this ice queen. Many people die, including the ice queen and the kingdom remains frozen forever. No love interests, so I imagine those two characters were actually based on The Snow Queen (enchanter who tricks someone into loving them for their own ends and a cute, but also naive, love interest that is genuinely devoted). Also no snowman that I know of. I heard it's obvious what they ripped off in the second movie but I wasn't interested. And frankly the music never impressed me when compared to other Disney musicals.

Elsa’a writing change from villain to hero really hurt the narrative of Frozen and changed Hans for the worst as a result. Elsa seemed more interesting of a character right before Let It Go and barely contributes to the plot at all afterwards. She just runs away from her problems until the movie forces her into a conclusion that wasn’t earned and everyone celebrates her without realizing it. Anna was fleshed out as we would expect a hero to be, but Elsa wasn’t as a result of the writing change. In short, Elsa is not really a character. She’s just a pretty woman used exclusively for marketing and Disney knows this.

I remember a cut scene that showed Elsa and Anna interacting about borrowing shoes and Anna hanging out in town... you know, scenes from a world where Elsa wasn't completely isolated from Anna and they had a sibling relationship. Elsa still had signs of issues she was working through, but they also let them have an ongoing sibling bond. They also were going to have Anna not have to be a shut in as well, and just fretting about being a spare. Basically that their parents didn't completely stunt both of their social development. I think that would have felt more natural.

I was pretty young when this movie came out, around 6 or 7. I genuinely thought upon my first viewing that Elsa was supposed to be the villain, and that the finale was her redemption. Every action Elsa made negatively affected the story, and since I'd grown up on older Disney movies, i perceived her as the main villain, and Hans as a lesser villain, a catalyst to make the climax have more action. The bold makeup and magic and lack of real care for others in the story just fit the feel of a classic Disney villain. Even to young me, Frozen did a poor job of expressing Elsa as a good person or character.

I truly believe Elsa is so popular because shes a blank slate. You can almost imprint on her because you too had [Insert bad event in childhood], or you have [Insert destructive talent that needs to be refined], or you also [Insert journey of personal growth here]. She’s basically like a voiced Player Character in a way.

It’s insane how fan writers can manage to create a mature (while still whimsical) take on Frozen and Frozen 2, and the official writers couldn’t make it work. Frozen breaks my heart. It’s teetering on the edge of genius, but it keeps stopping itself from getting there.

What makes elsa bad is what makes rupunzel great. Raps opened up to people even though she was locked away for so long and got to know the kingdom on a personal level. Elsa literally ran away from her responsibility twice where a sociopath was able to do her job better than her in less than a week even if her power was dangerous. Her parents honestly just offed themselves if we don't bring up the Tarzan thing by running too. Anna is honestly so underated due to not being the pretty one or having the iconic song

They could've kept Hans as an antagonist without needing a twist if they had him want to marry Anna to finally have place in ruling a kingdom, not because he loves her and left it at that. He cares about how he is perceived and he wants to prove himself and save the kingdom, he really does want to be a good Prince and leader. When his pleas for Elsa to fix it falls flat he becomes frustrated, then the Duke suggests striking Elsa down and while reluctant at first, seeing 'his' kingdom falling apart he caves to his desperation and moves to kill Elsa. Perhaps he investigates the area around Elsa's castle and sees evidence of footprints by the cliff edge, assuming Anna is dead so he can still drop that bombshell on Elsa. When it comes to the confrontation on the lake Anna sees her sister and ignores her condition to reach her, wanting to see her again before its too late. She spots Hans with the sword and acts as she does in the movie. You still get Hans as the villan but his actions are in line with his goal. You get rid of the twist and now have more time for important scenes, maybe do something with that Duke character since his only purpose is to be a red herring.

Anna was always the better sister, change my mind.

Tangled deserved the love Frozen got.

When I first watched Frozen I LOVED Anna. A bubbly girl who grew beyond expectations to save her sister AND her kingdom, who's always treated second best but fights for everything. I knew little girls loved Elsa cause she got the better song and the sparkling outfit and magic but as a character Anna was much more interesting. When Frozen 2 came out I was excited to finally see the Anna recognition I wanted - only to be let down. Anna is still treated second best throughout whole movie. Elsa gets both of the main songs, Elsa showed no character growth since the first movie, Elsa endangers her sister and faces no repercussion for it, Elsa is the fifth spirit, Elsa gets the sparkling outfit, Elsa gets to see her mother for the last time, Elsa Elsa Elsa. At least she's more active this time. But still, I'd have loved that both girls would have been the fifth spirit (maybe not make the fifth spirit ice but community or something), I'd love if one of the main songs would have been a duet and the least they should have given Anna was to see the ghost of her father in the cave. She's such a cool and admirable girl and the movies as well as the fandom treat her like a dopey sidekick

My mum is 100% convinced that Hans's total shift in the movie was for audience misdirection as well as Anna misdirection, but the twist villains that work well (Waternoose, Lotso, Stinky Pete, most of Pixar's) work because there are hints of their villainy that you can pick up early on in a rewatch. That doesn't exist with Hans. I'm convinced the trolls made him evil to "get the fiancé out of the way." He only shows any hint of his supposed true colours after Fixer Upper.

The deleted song of Life's Too Short makes Elsa's character ten times more interesting in those few minutes than the whole movie. Of showing how this isolation really amplified her "its me against the world" ideology, and how it contrasts with Anna's need for people. It gives a much needed and understandable conflict for her character, for sisters who've spent years apart who gain this burst of resentment for one another due to how different of people they've become. I really wish we got it instead of FTIF reprise

To me; Elsa looks really dumb for not explaining why she doesn't wanna see Anna. They could've had a scene with her conflicted about telling Anna the truth but deciding not to for 'reasons' she thinks are good or her parents told her.

If they wanted to do a mental illness analogy, Frozen was NOT the film to do this. Too many illogical and unrealistic decisions made by characters and plot holes galore.

I'm annoyed in general at Frozen 2, but the worst thing about it was how it ruined the potential for Elsa as a character. One of the moments that really stuck with me in the beginning was Anna telling Elsa how she wished Elsa loved herself like she did. (Man that made me tear up.) They could've had so much build-up starting with that at how Elsa could've thought she was losing her mind with the voice in her head and how much it was distracting her from her duties thus it was putting her back in a poor mental head space. And that she felt the voice was confirming or telling her that she wasn't meant to be there/be Queen because of her powers. It would've made 'Into the Unknown' actually made sense. Like you're entirely correct on the problem that there was no build-up (because of time) and thus no reason why any of the characters, especially Elsa, in Frozen 2 felt the way they felt or ended up in the positions they did at the end (like Elsa living in the forest and Anna having no problems being the Queen...and the most perfectest ever according to the books that came after the movie...despite her childish, carefree personality). However, the poor writing and even things like "oh we're going to make her hear a voice! Whose voice you ask? Uuuuuuuuuuhhhh" (just trash the idea then!) would be made worse if these movies were 2 hours long. I dunno if they would be able to pull them off even with that amount of time. Look at the new Indiana Jones movie - they had tons of time but none of the characters felt like they had grown by the end. Also Elsa repeating her same mistake by pushing away Anna (literally this time, down a dangerous path of ice, into a dangerous waterway, at 100 miles per hr....) made my friends and I groan at the same time. They could've separated them in any number of ways, but chose to make Elsa do THAT. So frustrating. Poor writing and planning, period. Also Disney rushing them and them listening to the test audience's suggestions...that never ends well.

Am I the only one who thinks that Once Upon A Time did a bit better job than Frozen 2? By all means, it's not perfect, but it did made sense since in the story, Anna and Elsa has an aunt who is the original Snow Queen. Their mom, Iduna feared her sister and trapped her. It's a better plot than Frozen 2 did, but Disney should at least draw some inspiration from the show. Also sometimes I wondered if they could've just merge Hans and Christoph's character together. Like keep Hans good as he was supposed to be and when he's not using his royal prince persona, he acts like Christoph. Still keep Sven and have him obsessed with ice. The message would still be there about don't marry someone you just met and after they got to know each other for three days and when the true loves kiss didn't work, they could still keep their relationship which would lead to Frozen 2. Also at the same time, it would established a treaty and more trade between the two kingdoms.

You know, ever since the second movie, I can’t but hate Elsa. People say that there is not really a moment where she begins to learn, but there is. Let’s begin with the ending of the first movie. Things are broken, for sure, nothing is just perfect, even if it looked like it, but Frozen Fever actually showed a good moment of Elsa’s growth. She struggled the whole time to open up about how bad she actually felt, because she got sick, right on the birthday of her sister. In the end she actually was honest, let her sister know, finally opening her doors. In Olaf‘s Christmas… or whatever name, she first blames her self, pretty much again shutting others out, not realizing that not everything is in her control but then seeing, that, while she suffered, her sister is right there too. Both went through rough times, because of their parents, so they have to stick together, because that way they will be able to heal. Then the second frozen movie comes around and everything is flushed down the toilet. All the progress, gone, so that Elsa can shut everyone out again, pushing her responsibilities onto Anna, to be free and live in a forest. Sweet. I hate it!

Honestly, I never liked Frozen, and I never liked Elsa. I always thought that Rapunzel was a much better princess. I was living abroad when Frozen came out, and so I missed the majority of the initial hype. But Frozen was one of the first movies I saw when I got back, and I was like "Seriously? This is what everyone has been freaking out about over the past year?" I felt the plot didn't entirely make sense; that Hans as the villain was weird, since he never acted evil until the switch and they never gave any indicators beforehand; and that Anna/Elsa saving her sister because that is the real true love seemed unbelievable because of their enstranged nature. If they spent all those years apart as sibling (yes, I know they lived in the same castle, but they didn't interact. They could have kept the separation and still given them a relationship by having them have conversations through the door or something, rather than having Elsa actively abandon her), then their relationship wouldn't be all that close. Their closeness always seemed inauthentic to me. However all those misgivings make more sense with the idea that Elsa was the original intended villain, and then changed at the last minute.

I really don't like Elsa, everything is about her, she never thinks about how Anna feels about being left out, never apologizes, never tries to make amends. What annoys me the most about Elsa is that she thinks she can do everything herself, but she can't! "I have my powers to protect me" it seems that it's not okay to need someone, only Elsa doesn't assume she needs Anna! The scene that annoys me the most is when Anna says she installed the strongest winter and she kicks Anna out with the Marshmallow without even worrying about how was Arendelle. And it gets worse! She puts the monster to expel Anna without even worrying about having frozen her sister's heart! Surely she remembered the troll meeting and could at least speak where to go. She simply makes Anna, Kristoff, Olaf and Sven do their best to fix everything and help her as a gift.

The universe where Elsa was a villian is the good timeline.

This is also why I liked "Life's Too Short". It made the relationship deeper, showing Elsa's fear for being 'caged'. I think they should have kept this one.

I want to add something from the perspective of someone with a mental illness that doesn’t think Elsa’s representation is good at all. 1st. Her parents. While definitely misguided, they were trying to find ways to help Elsa control her powers. In the same way that fear grips Elsa’s heart, it grips her parents as well. Up until they accident they have no trouble with the powers because they don’t see the danger. Then the danger happens and they forget the good. This happens a lot with parents of kids with mental illness so I actually like their complicated representation. Too bad the second movie retcons this. 2nd. Elsa no longer a villain. People with mental illness lash out when they don’t know how to handle their mental illness and it’s very common especially if they’re bottling it up (which we see happening with Elsa). When this happens we see a release (explosion) of emotion and then we see a return to baseline (original behavior). The start of this where Elsa runs away and decides to stay away is good, and even let it go is good, but the problem comes in when Anna explains the situation and tries to help her, we’re supposed to (according to the movie) think that Elsa is in the right here, staying away and once again secluding herself, but when she’s called out on it and hurts her sister, she’s not held accountable for her actions. While a person can’t control their actions during a psychotic break (which I would guess is happening) they are still culpable after the break is over. Elsa doesn’t apologize or even accept responsibility for her actions, and by the second movie she’s seen more like a super hero than someone struggling with mental illness. (Ironically, super hero movies like X-Men are a better representation for this). Had Elsa been the original villain, the same story beats could occur where everyone else thinks she’s a villain though in reality, she’s struggling. We’d be happy she “let it go” but also recognize that living away from everyone is not the answer. She then could go through a REAL character arc (not just saying “oh yeah, love will work with this”) and come to understand both herself and her sister more. The musical Frozen does a great job with this by giving Elsa one more song called “Monster” that I really related to as it fit a lot of the emotions I feel, especially after a psychotic break. 3rd. Hans. By giving a twist villain who’s a mustache twirling bad guy, it eliminates the purpose of examining the relationship between Anna and Elsa and focusing on where they both need to communicate with each other more and seek to understand. The whole drama at that point doesn’t work because it goes from being a focus on their brokenness as a family, and turns to “Hans is so bad, but we beat him”. At this, it loses its focus entirely.

Say what you want about Elsa, or how good or bad the Frozen movies are or was. But I’m sure we can all agree that Frozen 3 is a bad idea, especially with Disney’s reputation of bad sequels.

If I'm remembering right? They basically rewrote most of the movie. Because of the song, let it go.

I'm kinda surprised Disney never made a Frozen TV series. In fact, I'd like to see one, because it might flesh out the story and characters more, as well as fix some of the plotholes, ESPECIALLY after Frozen 2!

Elsa is a terrible person in the 2nd movie. This is why I pretend Frozen 2 never existed and Once Upon A Time is the true continuation of Frozen. If you haven't see the Once Upon A Time Frozen arc, I highly recommend it. It has its flaws too, but better covers Anna & Elsa's parents, Elsa is good sister unlike in Frozen 2 and the chemistry between the Anna & Kristof actors is pure peak. Looking at the first Frozen with Once Upon A Time as the actual continuation, Elsa is a really good character with fleshed out development. I do agree the first should have gave us more on Elsa's journey, but I feel she is still understandable.

I never understood why the movie was so popular. I ended up loathing it as I had to listen to it over and over again as a retail worker

Elsa is the exact reason why Frozen is my LEAST fave Disney movie. She's poorly written as a character. When she does selfish and awful things, she NEVER apologizes for what she did. (Mental illness or not, there is NO excuse for freezing your own kingdom and leaving everyone in it for dead. Period!)

Elsa put her entire kingdom in danger and even summoned a snow monster to kill Anna and Kristoff. Scared or not she should have told the truth. Yep, she should have been the bad guy.

Elsa had potential...as a villain. Sure make her a redeemable villain if you can't stomach killing her off. But they had the perfect setup and just tossed it. I mean Hans as the villain? It was a stupid twist and yeah it took away from Elsa as a decently set antagonist. Sure, he had a great song. I actually liked it. But everything they did with Elsa just felt weak. Too bad really. She had a good power set, great voice work, and there was potential.

At this point, Elsa is nothing more than just a marketing tool to sell toys and other merchandise when you have a Disney princess and character who has been around longer by at least 11 years before this overrated drama Queen and her name is Kida! She’s a better developed character, she (kinda) has powers but only when fused with the Heart of Atlantis crystal, AND she was the first Disney princess to also become queen of her land by the conclusion of her film BEFORE this mess of a overrated and under developed character. I get that Atlantis didn’t do very well but if the studio just made an effort to bring Atlantis back into the public minds and hearts it could have the potential to finally get its proper due and maybe finally add Kida in her proper place as an official Disney princess. I am sick and tired of how they constantly wave Frozen in our faces like it’s their best film ever and it really isn’t. Either they need to wake up and do a better job with Frozen 3 or just stop with this Frozen madness altogether (which isn’t going to happen) and focus on more worthwhile projects and once and for all, let it all go.

Yeah, Frozen 2 begged the question, "Why the ****** did the mother not tell Elsa the TRUTH???!!!!"

"Why Elsa IS A Bad Character" OOH I KNOW THIS ONE, I can answer!! Because... she's not :D She's not a character. She's little more than a decorated sentient statue. Elsa does not have a personality. Elsa has a pretty dress, and a cute design with an adorable hairstyle and makeup. And a catchy song (debatable). And that's it. Really. "oh but what about her trauma? She does too have a personality! She has anxiety issues and loves her sister..." ok??? These are not personality traits. Yeah, Elsa is scared because of what her powers are capable of and how her (horrible) parents mishandled raising her when she accidentally harmed Anna. But being scared and reserved are NOT personality traits. They are feelings/reactions. Having trauma is NOT a personality trait, it's how she handles that trauma that would make her a character. She handles it by being scared. All the time. This is the only thing we know about her... UNTIL she randomly conjures up confidence out of thin air and sings her iconic (debatable) song about how much she loves her own powers, out of freaking nowhere. Then we see a whole new side of her being all liberated and whatever. But only as long as she's alone (honestly, RELATABLE). As soon as her sister or anyone else finds her again, she reverts back to being afraid. By the end of the story, we know she's confident and happy with her powers, and otherwise she is fearful and timid... Until she accepts Anna's love I guess? We witness absolutely no arc about Elsa as a character. She's empty and devoid of any characterization whatsoever except some real surface level nothingburger. She's timid and she loves chocolate. Wow, what a cool character. 🙄

I've hated her my ENTIRE life I know she's traumatized but they wrote her as like a fucking pick me??? Trauma doesn't turn people into pick me girls, she's just obnoxious. The entire time it feels like she's just fishing for attention and compliments. "Euugh I'm too dangerous go away, everything is my fault leave me alone" like stfu. I understand obviously that mental illness can make people think negatively like this upon themselves but from my own damn experience I can say, people don't just act like this. Very often, people with mental illness let these thoughts weigh on them but NEVER say things like this out loud. People with actual depression suffer in silence a LOT of the time and they act totally fine on the outside, and even if they feel like they cause every problem in the lives of their loved ones, they don't like to talk about it because it's like... embarrassing to talk about?? Like idk for everyone of course but I know that this is a ridiculous way of thinking and it's dumb to believe you cause every problem in the lives of your family and friends but mental illness making you think that way anyway isn't something you flaunt. That's why I think she's just an annoying awful character. They did a terrible job writing mental illness in these movies. I'm just complaining based on my own experiences with metal illness, so obviously I can't speak for everyone, but she annoys the SHIT out of me. She feels like a caricature.

I never, ever understood why Frozen was popular. I thought the movie was shit the very first time I watched it. Nothing like feeling psychotic since as I was apparently the only one in the universe who thought the writing was terrible.

I feel like they could have done something like Rameses from the prince of Egypt, like, she would start off as a protagonist, and then slowly become the villian.

“Let it go!” *the crops have all died from the cool shock.* “Let it go!” *farm animals have all died as they weren’t prepared for the sudden winter.” “Let it go!” *the people are starving and slowly freezing*

THANK YOU. I HATE their parents too. How can they be so loving and caring and yet, fucked their daughters up so much? It’s awful

I'll say the same I did on another video: I like Elsa and understand her feelings, but her struggle with her powers is her whole story; we don't get to know who she is outside of it, which is my biggest issue.

Honestly....what really sucks is that she was clearly a lightning-in-a bottle-character and they wasted that opportunity SO HARD. There was was opportunity to make this epic ala 90's Renaissance, but NO, quality be damned, and focus groups that amount to nothing except quantitative crap made the cut.

Also another reason why the voice was a bad idea is the legend itself… In scandanavia (and many MANY parts of the world) it is believed that if you hear a voice or hear a love one call you from the woods or anywhere… IGNORE IT!!!! Because whatever is calling you is not good and will lead to you death or worse.

Frozen two was honestly so bad, it was such an obvious cash grab

Elsa needs therapy

I just realized: Hans showed more "feminine"-coded traits in staying home and taking care of people and being there as an emotional support (before turning into the "villain"). It was what made me fall in love with him watching the movie in the beginning. He was such a well-rounded guy whereas Christoph loved his Sven and really did not have as many interesting traits when we followed the story. Interesting … and I also never understood the appeal of the movie in itself. I felt rather betrayed with the sudden plot-twist in Hans being the bad guy which I hated. Thanks for putting the flaws of this movie in such concise words!

The fact that Hans started a trend of awful and predictable twist villains is what makes me despise this movie the most.

Elsa, Rapunzel & Quasimodo would have a lot to talk about. They all have been locked up in their homes for most of their lives, Elsa could relate to Quasimodo due to both of them being called "monsters" when the true monsters were their respective villains Hans & Frollo. Rapunzel could relate to Quasimodo due to both of them being abused by their guardians Mother Gothel & Claude Frollo & being taught that the outside world is dark & cruel.

Reminds me of the Schaffrillas video about Frozen where Elsa is only the hair and dress. Nothing else and I kind of agree. There are definitely good parts in both movies. Like my favorite song in this franchise is Show Yourself. I wish the movies had more time to be prepared.

Elsa and Anna as sisters dealing their issues, without trying to ham-fistedly ram in villains, could have worked. Else as an antagonist, rather than an outright villain, could have been good characterization.

I like to think that even though Elsa wasn’t the villain, she was the main antagonist.

I ended up writing a fanfiction where Anna seemingly dies during the climax of the first film. Elsa flees north, taking all of the ice with her. After a few years, she flies south to look for a new Anna and comes across the boy from the original story, setting the events of that story in motion. Elsa could have been a great villain if Disney stuck to the original Snow Queen tale. Have a villain with a tragic backstory that made her into an unhinged kidnapper. It may have worked. The fairy tale was perhaps my favourite growing up because it didn't have that soppy, lovey-dovey part, but Disney butchered it. PS: In my story, I also have Elsa take out the mirror shard from the boy's eye after realising that if she really does love him then she has to let him go. As he runs away and she seals up the ice castle, she sings 'For Evermore' from the remake of Beauty and the Beast, the only good part of that film.

Even knowing all this, I still enjoy Frozen as a movie and watch it over and over. As I keep coming back, I realize that the emotion Elsa puts out pretty much goes away as soon as Anna wakes up from being frozen solid towards the end. Elsa is anxious, secretive, and distant for the whole film. Then does a 180 at the end and is just... Cool with everyone?? Letting people ice skate all over the place and being open and free RIGHT AWAY? Uh, yeah, anyone who has ever tried to come out of a depressive episode knows it's NOT THAT F*CKING QUICK/EASY. Disney really said "Wraaap it up! The end is here, so Elsa has to go to default mode! Nothing but happiness now!" Elsa almost killed her sister multiple times. And Anna SACRIFICED HERSELF for her. Nothing to discuss about that?? No?? Okay. 😂

The fact that Elsa DID control her powers at the beginning of the film makes the decision to hide her insane Like, all they had to do was to make their daughters more careful when they are playing with the magic

Yeah, Hans being a villain was so stupid. It would be better if they stick with Elsa being an antagonist and Hans being a positive character who might not end up as Anna’s love interest but maybe a friend (to keep „you can’t be with someone you just meet” idea), keeping Kristoff where he is.

This movie INFURIATES me. Writing a story about a character being depressed without actually showing it outside of interactions with others is a REALLY bad decision. We shouldve been shown the level of isolation Elsa put herself into, and showed the effects of depression on the INDIVIDUAL. We were only really shown the effects it has on others (this is parallel to real life situations such as those who run away or commit sui*cide.. but this movie making it a life or death situation prevents you from fully sympathizing with Elsa) Elsa deserved better, we shouldve been shown what the effects of depression on the person who is the primary victim of it.

She ran away, learned her lesson, then ran away again...

I never liked Frozen despite loving Tangled and many of the other princesses, but I could never really explain why. Thanks for explaining what I couldn't!

I’m so glad this video and others like it exists. I’m convinced that all the little girls that fell in love with this movie were drawn in because of the beautiful art and the fun songs, but ever since I saw the first one I was like how is Elsa the hero??

Elsa was supposed to be the villain of Frozen, but the story of Frozen as sisters growing back together is AMAZING, and had such an impact on society. Elsa in the first movie has a full entire arch, and we can see her grow as a character. The problem with making her a good person and a good character is that the film lacks a villain, which is where Hans fills in, and Hans is a terrible villain who has ZERO build-up till this point, so I agree with him being shoe-horned in there. Elsa from the first movie has a character arch, and learns to be close with Anna again. Elsa from the SECOND movie, however, has that arch completely DEMOLISHED, because basically ALL the characters in that movie are crappy and not well-written. So I would argue that Elsa is a good character, at least in the first movie. And on that note, Frozen WAS successful and a box office phenomenon, so a sequel logically makes sense, but the fact that we wait 7 YEARS and get Frozen II, it would’ve just been better to make Frozen a standalone. Why does everything have to have a sequel?

I never liked Hans as a twist villain, there was nothing to hint at him being evil at all upon rewatch. By comparison, Hal aka Titan from Megamind can be sniffed out as creepy and unstable before the reveal

As someone who has struggled with some mental health stuff lately (and ended up finding Elsa relateable due to going through similar mental health struggles that I've been through), her selfishness makes sense to me, especially as someone with mild social anxiety and trust/vulnerability issues. Unfortunately, when it comes to healing from mental health struggles, selfishness tends to be a factor and it's very easy to spiral when it comes to imposter syndrome and increased anxiety issues. :( I do agree there probably should have been a lot more stuff with Anna where she should have apologized more and a bunch of other stuff, but I guess they didn't have that since both girls didn't have the best social development that most other kids normally have.

In Frozen 2 you see Elsa selfishly disregard the spiritual 'calling' voice in her head, first as being a nuisance but then changes her mind as it could be fun to go into the unknown, only later she discovers it was a call for help by her mother trying to save her father's life. I can't watch Elsa's expression without seeing her regret that she didn't care enough to help someone other than herself. She is no hero.

When frozen came out i was super petty about it and refused to akknowledge it because The Snow Queen was one of my favorite fairy tales when i was a kid and i was super pissed that Deisney turned it into commercial driven princess junk.

despite all of Frozen 2's issues, I gotta be honest that the characters look really good in it; I don't really know what they changed from the first one, but they look much better.

Yeah there are a few weird plot holes that don't make sense. For starters, Hans' motive and actions literally make no sense. Like, the part that bugs me most is how when he comes out and says "we said our marriage vows" and nobody even questions the fact that he can just tell the people of Arendelle that he married Anna with no witnesses, and somehow his word will make him king. It definitely sounds like they needed a villain and were like, "Hey how about Hans." And I think even the writers knew this because they even kind of make fun of it in the 2nd movie. And the 2nd movie makes even less sense than the first. How did her dad not recognize her mom as the girl who saved him in the woods and how come the mom didn't act like she was of Northuldra at all when the king was telling them the story and making the Northuldra out to be the bad guys? Or tell him that she was the one who saved him when he was telling the story of how he was saved. And then somehow she became a wind spirit? And she literally lived alongside these elements and knew about magic and yet acted like she had no idea what was going on? And the trolls/Kristoff relationship just baffles me. In the beginning he's with all these ice harvesters, and they clearly see him, and he's following after them. And then he's just suddenly alone in the woods, and the trolls are like, "I'm gonna keep you." ??? If he was with the ice harvesters, wouldn't at least ONE of them noticed that he wasn't there and wonder what happened to him? If one of those ice harvesters wasn't actually his dad, and he was an orphan or something, I find it weird that none of these ice harvesters would concern themselves with his wellbeing and try to take him in? Or take him to some kind of authority? But ok we're adult men going to leave a child in the snowy woods near a frozen lake? And the trolls' motives make no sense. Why would Grand Pabbie erase Anna's memories of Elsa's powers? Why would the parents separate them which would just confuse Anna and further frighten Elsa when fear was supposed to be her enemy? Again I think this is something that the writers make fun of themselves for when Anna says, "She could have just told me she had powers and none of this would have happened. She's a stinker." So I think even the writers themselves were aware of how ridiculous some of their plot holes were. I just find it easiest to not question it. There are a LOT of plot holes in this that are just best left unquestioned or else you'll give yourself a headache. As the parent of 5 year old twin daughters who want to BE Elsa, believe me, I well understand how many plot holes there are. Adults will see the problems. Kids will not. But I'm also a writer, so it really bugs me when writers leave all these plot holes and just shrug it off with the "it's for kids, they won't notice" kind of attitude. It's lazy.

I had so many issues with the story. Parents: Saw that Elsa had perfect ability to control her powers, there was an accident, (which was caused by Anna) and they immediately shut off their kid from the world, who is supposed to be future ruler with a lot of human contact, she has to know how to be leader etc, which she can't cut off from the world. Mother is even worse looking at the part 2. She knew magic, she understood magic, she grew up with it. You'd think she should know that magic is about harmony and love.. Trolls - masters of magic, huh? Know that fear will kill Elsa. Let's give her awful trauma. Anna, I'm sorry but I just find her annoying and stubborn. She falls in love in 1 second, then risks her life for her sister, leaves alone. She should have taken some guards with herself, that was just stupid. And how she treats Kristof in 2nd movie is just awful, even tho it was supposed to be funny... Hans, why did he betray Anna? He actually looked like he cared for Anna and if even kiss wouldn't have worked he could have played the part "oh it doesn't work, but I truly love you! Maybe that's now how it works?". Why anyway everybody were just fine with him taking over the throne? I know it's children movie but c'mon. Elsa changes her character way too quickly, never seems to really care about her kingdom and is bland. Ending - why everybody were cheering? Just a second ago they wished death to Elsa, they have no idea what happened and they just want her as their Queen? Everything was rushed, the answer of love just popped out of nowhere.

Elsa is the most unlikeable protagonist I have ever seen in any piece of media EVER!

It was a nice watch one time. However I couldn't understand the obsession of little girls wanting to see it again and again or begging for every scrap of the merchandise. Or the songs, they are good and catchy but not to put them on loop for days on end. I almost fled from my niece's home and felt a lot of pity for my cousins.

I am always bewildered at how much The Mouse has managed to hype Frozen. It was everywhere and I assumed it's a really good movie. Oh the disappointment. The story falls completely flat for me. Comparing to something like 'How to train your Dragon', this thing is a basic B* kind of movie. And this mediocre story is what kids growing up on it will regard as a golden standard. Sad.

to be fair…her entire character was constructed for a song 😂

every day is instantly made better whenever somebody uploads a video criticising Frozen

The fact Frozen was the first movie I ever watched in my lifetime, and I never saw any of the flaws. I’m older now, and I see the flaws this movie has

I remember watching Frozen, because I was interested in Elsa as a character. You can imagine my disappointment when I realized that she's more of a side character, even though that's not what was intended. Idk...as an adult I didn't like the first movie except for the siblings-love part, because that was a nice change. Never watched the second one.

I liked Elsa as a villain more. She should have stayed that way.

I don't think Anna was really done right either, ngl. If she was going to have an arc where she learns what happened in the past and talks about it with Elsa, then maybe. But the fact that they didn't do that honestly disgusts me. It's like "hey, here's this traumatic event in the past, but in our mental health allegory movie we will NEVER UNPACK THAT, you know, the thing that's required for improving mental health."

anna is the most forgiving and kind person for so readily accepting Elsa after Elsa shut her out for literal years with no explanation. I understand that Elsa was in a bad mental and emotional state, but abusing someone else because of that can never be excused. and yes, neglect is abuse. I was anna growing up. I had a sibling constantly turning me away to the point where I gave up on interacting. It wasn't until she sorted through her trauma independently and put in her own effort that we now have a wonderful relationship.

This reminds me of another certain KZfaqr who made a video on the exact same topic. Only difference for him is that he basically ended up deleting it, likely because of everyone getting so hurt over facts. Hopefully the same won’t happen for you and this video. Because despite all the cult status Frozen receives, there has to be people to point out its flaws

It’s actually beyond me that you didn’t catch the moment Hans’ eyes went to the chandelier before firing that arrow. He wanted to kill her and make it seem like he tried to save her and it was amazing foreshadowing. So saying he wanted to bring her back to reality and get her home is really funny to me. 😭

this movie had LEGENDARY potential to show Elsa as a mistreated character. even with the focus and perspective on Anna. a story where Anna is being a sheltered kid who gets to live a happy life while Elsa is being abused and separated from the rest of the family. it explains why they lock up the castle as they can't hide their firstborn from noble society(bad for international relations), can't simply make her disappear(people should've already known about her at that age), nor can they kill her off, both as parents who are supposed to be loving and from fear of her powers. it'll require minor changes to the interaction between the parents and Elsa at the start(commenting something like "I told you not to play with this thing" referring to her magic) and that the twist villain would NOT be Hans but actually the Rock Trolls. you can still break the bond between Anna and Hans in favor of Kristoff as part of the Troll's plan, have that break drive Hans to not want Anna back even after realizing it was a ploy as he was hurt by the break and Anna would end up with Kristoff because they were both used by the trolls. it still get a similar enough end result, but: 1. have a different and more pivotal villain 2. the twist reveal would be really impactful viewers that thought Elsa was evil or that her parents were just awful for no reason would see the lines drawn to those magical creatures seeking ruin onto the royal family for some slight or another. or as something against the spirits from the second movie. Elsa would see that it wasn't that her parents hated her, but that their fear of the incident was drilled into them by the Trolls who warped her every action into malicious in their eyes. Anna would learn of all the horrible things her sister had gone through, and see through the haze of her happy life from the days before of the incident and the days of "do you wanna build a snowman". Kristoff would learn that the only reason the Trolls saved him(or maybe kidnapped him) was that they needed a human for their plan. 3. it would fit perfectly with the supposed timing of the storyboard changes from the original movie and would require only tiny sections of re-animation and re-recording while creating a much better movie for the cost. 4. it was basically what the fan community has been speculating this entire time because the movie was so badly written. the one downside is that you won't have the Rock Troll merch be as popular as it was, though I don't think it would've been such a big loss anyways. my conspiracy theory was that it was INTENDED to be this way from the start and there was NO rewrite at all, because in modern day we can't have women be evil or flawed, and it always have to be the "straight whyte man" who is either evil, useless, or both.

This movie just has too many things going on that nothing seems fleshed out; there's too many fake-out villians

it's not that she didn't care, she just didn't realize.

Elsa never apologized for anything. She ran away & almost killed everyone by freezing them to death for almost killing Anna twice first with the ice monster & second freezing her heart & Elsa was very rude & mean to Anna. Anna deserves an apology.