All about espresso body

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Decent Espresso

Decent Espresso

Жыл бұрын

In the discussion of espresso clarity of flavor vs body, the Decent has always been strong at clarity, but less good at body. I tasked my coffee master Paul Chan with understanding why. He spent months with different profiles and baskets, and presented me his results live in this video. decentespresso.com/basket
We discuss how preinfusion speed, headspace above the puck, puck spacers, the spacer kits, lever machines, portafilter basket widths, dose sizes, and waisted baskets all affect body.
We dive into using our waisted baskets, along with espresso profiles that maximize espresso body.
We found that a low temperature (84ºC descending to 78ºC) was very helpful in controlling acidity with lower dosed (12g to 14g), thick shots. We discussed how 7g and 10g baskets are very difficult to pull without channeling, and resulting sourness.
Our best taste result was with our standard 15g basket. It was very quickly pulled shots (in just 16 second), with close to a 1:1 ratio (14g in, 15g out). With this approach, we had great body, but without the espresso being over-concentrated (too high a TDS).
With our slightly-waisted 14g basket we got significantly more body, at the cost of a bit less clarity, no flavor defects, a bit less aroma.
The very waisted 14g basket gave us about the same amount of body, but sweetness and almost no acidity. This would be best for someone chasing a very easy to drink, classic Italian espresso.
We show how to create these recipes yourself on the Decent: adjusting preinfusion flow rates, and temperature profiling.

Пікірлер: 44
@229glock
@229glock Жыл бұрын
More espresso lovers should learn about this machine. It’s really quite a bit better than the others in its price range. Probably higher. Much more consistent. Easier to use. Better results.
@axelpfister5054
@axelpfister5054 Жыл бұрын
This was very interesting. I’m always thankful to you for increasing my knowledge with this kind of lessons. 👍
@tedgoldman9121
@tedgoldman9121 Жыл бұрын
One of your best videos ever!
@BensCoffeeRants
@BensCoffeeRants Жыл бұрын
I remember I was surprised by how much body and flavour clarity I got with some light roast shots I pulled on a Europiccola (and Maybe my ECM E61 machine too, I forget) using my pretty high clarity but usually very low body Lagom P64 with SSP MP burrs, I think the key to achieving that is that it's a ristretto (probably was like 16g in and 26g out), but I also did a too fine grind size and a really long pre-infusion otherwise it would have likely been under extracted and sour. 13:00 I think deeper baskets don't really reduce the amount of channeling but it just makes the channeling not have as dramatic of an impact, since it channels but still has to travel through and contact more of the coffee, vs a less deep coffee bed.
@pulakbhatnagar
@pulakbhatnagar Жыл бұрын
Really enjoyed this video, so much to learn!
@jasoncasale3708
@jasoncasale3708 Жыл бұрын
You are correct for sure as some one who would fill a 21 gram La Marzocco Basket with 25 grams of coffee for a ristretto for over 2 decades I can say minimal headspace more coffee packed with the tamper with slightly more weight that normal mostly reduces channeling and gives an optimal result. Even distribution helps before packing as well. I am only a medium trending dark Ristretto person. The espresso I think best is at the beginning of audible second crack. Anything before second crack to me is basically raw coffee. Great job. If you have a narrower circumference of the basket the thicker the pucks wit the same grams of coffee. I had a Spaziale V2 with 54 mm this was very noticeable. More body for sure but much easier to choke the shots. It was more finicky that way. However with thicker pucks you could have a higher flow water flow and slow puck saturation before the first drops came out of the portafilter. This is the real magic. Higher flow and slow saturation due to the thicker pucks. Minimal headspace higher initial flow. More coffee in grams slightly heavier tamping. Also as you mentioned the smaller the circumference basket makes for thicker more body in your shots. These are the keys to success. This will give you thickness density viscosity. They type of beans used in a blend is a factor as well. Monsooned Malabar Sumatra Dry processes brazils and Africans All produce thicker more dense and viscous shots. So realize the coffee processing methods and roast levels are in deed real factors for consideration.
@decentespresso
@decentespresso Жыл бұрын
Many good points there, thank you. Your comments about the type of beans is something we should research more, too.
@hosegooseman5
@hosegooseman5 Жыл бұрын
Awesome job. Thanks to both, but specially Paul since he did most of the work…😃☕️
@decentespresso
@decentespresso Жыл бұрын
👍 A few less hours were slept for sure! 😅
@pfeliciano5976
@pfeliciano5976 Жыл бұрын
I would love a video of how the decent can facilitate single shot espresso. That would be a selling spot for me.
@decentespresso
@decentespresso Жыл бұрын
You can use the DE1 with the double spouted portafilter to split a shot if that is your preference.
@elhipster1
@elhipster1 Жыл бұрын
ordering a basket today ! I'm serving espresso for a bunch of italians next week and they looove the old style big bodied espressos
@decentespresso
@decentespresso Жыл бұрын
Nice!
@andrew00david
@andrew00david 10 ай бұрын
this exploration is, as always, overall very interesting, but I do think a 7-8g basket, with the smaller bottom output diameter, despite what you're describing as more "boring" flavor notes, creates a shot that would interest a number of folks who like traditional italian shots would like to play with. just my 2c. quite a number of differing basket geometries exist out there with different ways reduce volume as well - curved (convex and concave), conical section, etc.
@tigerag29607
@tigerag29607 Ай бұрын
You don't have to drink 28 gram monsters... *me sipping on my 66gram shot* lmao
@jasoncasale3708
@jasoncasale3708 Жыл бұрын
1 to 1 shots with 25grams of coffee and medium dark roast coffee produces glorious shots. Of course Italian espresso is the best.
@BensCoffeeRants
@BensCoffeeRants Жыл бұрын
What were you saying around 12:00 how the temperature and basket or coffee amount affects eachother? The 12g dose was more affected by higher temperatures than the 14g I'd think?
@decentespresso
@decentespresso Жыл бұрын
Yes, there seems to be a correlation to dose and brew temp. I did observe the lower doses (12g) were affected more with higher brew temperatures. Shots were consistently on the over extracted side, regardless of basket type.
@StephenProsserHCC
@StephenProsserHCC Жыл бұрын
I would love to see a video showing under the ghc of thick syrupy shots and lighter shots. Same dose, different profiles etc.
@decentespresso
@decentespresso Жыл бұрын
Generally, we haven't tried to make thick, syrupy shots with light roasted beans, but we are going to try to keep pushing our "body" techniques to lighter beans.
@StephenProsserHCC
@StephenProsserHCC Жыл бұрын
@@Decentespresso sorry, I meant lighter-bodied shots, lighter in volume or syrupy-ness. Just overall different thicknesses of shots compared to each other
@decentespresso
@decentespresso Жыл бұрын
@@StephenProsserHCC Ah I see!
@objectpdfmov
@objectpdfmov Жыл бұрын
A 41mm funnel/tamper is essential for single shot prep in a straight walled 7g basket like the VST. IMO don't bother with the conical ones.
@Adam-cn5ib
@Adam-cn5ib Жыл бұрын
Would be cool if you guys wrote and sold a book on how to make Coffee with the Decent machine. It's just that much to learn compared to any other machine.
@decentespresso
@decentespresso Жыл бұрын
We have one on Diaspora as well as a extensive manual, which you can access when you have a DE1. 😉
@Adam-cn5ib
@Adam-cn5ib Жыл бұрын
@@decentespresso I see, very nice thank you!
@rendez2k
@rendez2k Жыл бұрын
Did you do these tests with a flat burr grinder also? I feel the general consensus about the Niche is that it’s a ‘more body’ grinder anyway?
@decentespresso
@decentespresso Жыл бұрын
Currently comparing high vs low rpm speeds on a flat burr to see if there is a middle ground!
@SlickSonicTitan
@SlickSonicTitan Жыл бұрын
Would using a waisted 14g basket also increase body with a 1:2 medium roast?
@decentespresso
@decentespresso Жыл бұрын
From what i have observed and tasted yes, at the cost of some clarity.
@georgephillips3250
@georgephillips3250 Жыл бұрын
Do I understand correctly, there is a headspace difference on 1.43 and 1.44 machines?
@decentespresso
@decentespresso Жыл бұрын
There is not. v1.1 was the last version we changed headspace on. Upcoming v1.45 will have a new set of group head inner parts, that reduces the headspace further, to the E61 standard. It'll be a $99 upgrade that works on all previous machines, for those who want that.
@Mythicregard
@Mythicregard Жыл бұрын
@@decentespresso Does the machine in the video have the legacy grouphead parts or the upcoming 1.45 parts?
@robertusga
@robertusga 4 ай бұрын
When will v1.45 be available?
@elhipster1
@elhipster1 Жыл бұрын
just updated my DE1 App and did not find “Espresso in the 80s” shot profile. I’ll make it based on your suggestions i. the vid anyway. Just got my 14g waisted basket!
@decentespresso
@decentespresso Жыл бұрын
Switch to the BETA or NIGHTLY version, it's there.
@elhipster1
@elhipster1 Жыл бұрын
@@decentespresso fantastic! thank you.
@chriss5963
@chriss5963 Жыл бұрын
Great video! Thanks guys for all the work you do to push the industry forward. As a Londinium R owner, the question of body vs the Decent is a very relevant one, especially as someone who really values body of clarity. I’m happy to see you guys found some interesting variables to play with. One aspect that was left out of your conversation was grinder choice - conical vs flat. Have you found that conicals like a Niche do indeed produce higher body vs a flat? Or can playing with different profiles negate the difference?
@decentespresso
@decentespresso Жыл бұрын
Good point about grinders. We're only talking about having great body for medium to dark roasts, and we'd always favor conical burrs (Niche or Weber Key) for that goal.
@BensCoffeeRants
@BensCoffeeRants Жыл бұрын
Definitely the grinder and/or burr set is going to make an big impact, also pulling a ristretto shot is going to have a big impact, and give you more body. I haven't experimented too much with different head space on my machine, but now it's something I'm tempted to try and experiment with. I didn't think Weber key or HG-2 (Conical burrs) has very high body, it seems like a conical burr trying to be like a flat burr, it has maybe more of a richness that most flat burrs don't have, and it does have decent flavour clarity which people say conicals are lacking generally. Some flat burrs are much higher clarity and lower body SSP 64mm MP /Unimodals for example, but some flat burrs can also be very conical like where they give you lots of body and not much flavour clarity (I thought the SSP cast burrs were like that, but might need a lot of seasoning and could change). I like a burr that gives you good balance of both, but I do like the 64mm MP burrs though for picking out individual flavour notes better.
@Mythicregard
@Mythicregard Жыл бұрын
Did you guys experiment at all with the 12g extremely waisted basket that you offer? If so, what were your findings compared to the 14g waisted baskets?
@decentespresso
@decentespresso Жыл бұрын
Yes, the 12g waisted basket produces shots that are in-between the VWB and SWB. Not as much clarity as the VWB, but slightly higher acidity and more flavor balance compared to the SWB.
@Mythicregard
@Mythicregard Жыл бұрын
@@decentespresso In terms of body, the EWB was somewhere between the VWB and SWB?
@decentespresso
@decentespresso Жыл бұрын
@@Mythicregard closer to the SWB basket but, so yes in-between VWB andd SWB
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