Thanks for this video. So nice to see you still making such informative videos, some 6-ish years after I started flying FPV. You've given so much to the hobby. Thank you.

You drive the development of new stuff! Thanks for trying out new things and video-documenting it for the vendors who hopefully watch and knock off some of your ideas!

The size of gimbals doesn't really matter, what matters is the position of the datum, or axis of rotation. Issue is that with "small" gimbals they usually comes with short sticks, which result more curved arc within given "range" (like the ~44mm range at 6:47 ), having very different height/depth at the tip against the plane of datum, when compared with setups with DEEP datum and long sticks. While I like the idea of very deep datum (maybe some sort of virtual pivot "outside" the back of the case) and long sticks, effectively reducing the range (in terms of angle) but keeping the range (in terms of distance like again that ~44mm) the same, but then the idea of cutting off the top at 6:05 doesn't make too much sense...? I mean which would effectively just an offset of the radio in the Z direction, clipping into your holding fingers like badly made 3D model in Bethesda games. FYI, current user of Tango 2, with that Pyro gimals, running very narrow TH and Pitch throws - which inspired by a friend, whose Boxer w/ AG01's a minimum TH/Pitch throws.......... Wasn't convinced by the idea on paper, but felt at home when I tried his Boxer, ended up copying the setting on mine and found improved performance, at least on races (I too fly freestyle but never been great so YMMY)

Jesus Christ you opened my mind up to issues I have but didn’t know exactly how to diagnose. Good content sir!

Flew an x9d for years and moved to a qx7. Gonna fly the qx7 forever I love it.

I had to do similar with my boxer, the gimbals were so high and uncomfortable so I fitted the LED kit to drop them 5mm and then raised the sticks 2.5mm, now it feels perfect

nice. we all need your input bro!

Excellent video! We need more content like this. Customizing your "cockpit" (radio/goggles) to personal preference is one of the most important parts of enjoying this hobby❤

I have the boxer ELRS and can’t wait to start using it

I wholeheartedly agree with you on this. My first remote was a Dx6i and it was a struggle because I have fairly small hamds. At some point i got the X9 lite and I instantly enjoyed it more simply because I could use it properly. Going to take a look at modding it too.

Appreciate you sharing your valuable experience in something pilots invest so much in. :)

Nice to see u Bob👋🏻

Man, this video made me laugh! Good to see you post again!

I would really love a modular controller where the gimbals, buttons and switches can be moved around. And the brain, screen and battery bay is just a separate brick that’s plugged in. No more complaints about batteries being too small or screen placement. I think I would like the gimbals right at the edge and tilted outwards a bit.

I hope radiomaster is listening. Having deep gimbals for me is a must. I did a similar mod to my boxer, coming from a QX7 with hall sensors. Gimbal size and placement are probably the few things Frsky did right.

Baaaaaaahhhbbb! So great to see you making content again!

haptic feedback would be sick, but the actual implementation would take an entire team of engineers.

The force feedback would be really really cool!

I really like the prototype.

I have the tango 2 and the tx16s. And as newton once said: the greater the mass the greater the force of attraction!

I like my Paladin with the fat grips installed. The inductive charging is nice and the internal antennas work great.

Glad you’re focusing on the ergonomics of radios. I’ve been pretty disappointed with the direction of companies in this regard.

Oh man. The idea of dampened sticks is really interesting. I may have to play with this idea.

Dropped mine 7mm, works a dream

Yup. To all of it. I personally am exclusively a thumber, but always printed a spacer to lower the gimbal 4 millimeter, always removed the stock stick ends, cut down the posts, and threaded on the Frsky Vantac stick ends. Those are thumber only stick ends, but the point is the same. You want full range, and you want comfort, and you don't want skyscrapers for control sticks. For dampening, a small 1102 or smaller motor shorted out is an effective variable damper. The harder you try to spin a burnt (shorted) motor, the resistance in being able to physically spin the motor increases dramatically. Spin it slow, you can get it spinning. Start trying to spin it very quickly results in rapidly increasing rotational resistance. Just saying, we all have burnt motors laying around and they can be approached for use as a variable damper. Space constraints being the real limiting factor.

Pretty interesting mods, Bob! Thanks! 😃 Please, tell your wife you can't disappear from yt for that long! 😬 Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

Shit, man, what an eye opener! Thank you!

Roogie! Did you get married dude? I ended up with a Boxer, with 7mm spacers too. One thing I also did for ease of transport, was get a 2.4ghz Bardpole and relocate the antenna inside the radio case. Instead of fiddling with the external antenna. Great vid!

I saw your video this morning. Then I saw the Radiomaster Pocket a few minutes ago. I came back to check out the 3D-Print of your own design because the pocket somehow reminded me of it. The formfactor seems similar. But no fullsize gimbals... so meh. Will you check it out anyways ?

Have you seen the Radiomaster Pocket which just dropped today? Definitely less chonky and more in line with your prototype.

Thanks Bob!!!

we didnt even need audio. just the text man. haha good stuff

I have cheapest controller, (planning to go for Boxe) so i have no experience. But listening how you explained it simply makes so much sense 🤷‍♂️

Gimbals are a really important topic! Especially for us racers. The gimbals on my Spektrum DX6 G3 are so much better than the super expensive CNC gimbals on my Radiomaster TX16S. I think it's because the spring force of my DX6 G3 tends to increase towards the outside. And in the middle it's smooth. With the Radiomaster TX16S it is exactly the opposite. The spring force decreases towards the outside (felt) and the middle is extremely bumpy..

I love my Radiomaster TX 12. it's basic, perfect for a thumber like myself.

Cool. Thanks. So, what do you think about their newest radio, the ‘Pocket’?

interesting thinkings. I still fly with the DJI Remote1 modded with the AG01 metal gimbals. Great feel, and having my freestyle quads with only one antenna (that barely protrude) and one less component really makes a difference on the time spent fixing shit, after 100 or 1000 crashs :D

Edit: The radiomaster pocket just came out. I had to get it for so little money. Needed a smaller portable RC. I'm waiting for the new Jumper T20 reviews. Gal will be making one soon. The T20 looks like a smaller Boxer. One or two stores are selling it already, but apparently jumper is upgrading it right now. Thats why the reviews are delayed. Lets see how small it is and competitive to the boxer. Gal says it actually makes a good impression.

Are the radiomaster leds enough for make them as spacer instead of the 3d prints? Anyway able to tell how many mm thick they are?

The boxer is the best I've tried so far and I've tried quite a few radios. I do still feel like I have trouble reaching the inside upper corners so I might give this a try. Do you have a link to the STL for that mod? BTW, something similar to the fluid heads on video tripods might work for the dampening on gimbals, but I bet it would be expensive to make and probably chonky too.

I have been thinking about designing a radio as my favort one is like you white one and yeah it’s chunky. I opened it up to replace a switch once and yeah it’s mostly empty inside.

I hacked the roll/pitch stick. I'm also a pincher. I noticed that my pointer finger would go down very close to the very base of the stick. This prevents my from doing a proper forward pitch. It stops because of my finger. HAHAHA! So I printed a round thing that I mounted on the stick. My pointer finger now rest on it. It's mounted about 11-13mm from the top of the stick. I am now able to do a full forward pitch. :) Nice hack on the video btw!

Look at how Virpil controls does the cams for their flight sticks. I have a set and WISH I could have their no center ava sim cams on an FPV gimbal. In a heartbeat I would buy a gimbal with the warBRD cams in it. The non linear force makes it far easier to feel where you are in the stick and makes sense because we don't use linear rates. The soft or no center detent reduces that notch you feel when trying to pass through the center and makes sure it never shows up in the footage. Form wise the Tango 2 is the closest to perfection for me.

I removed the rubber things off my TX-16s too, lowered the gimbals as far as possible with lowering plates, and extended the tsticks as far as possible out with Frsky Umbrella style M4 stick ends. The absolute opposite of id1i0t short throw gimbals. Longer lever, more travel, more precision. My thumbs don't sit on top of the stick, but on the very edge of the umbrella. I want to design a radio where the internals are one unit, that can be mounted anywhere inside a persons custom designed and 3D printed outer shell case. So if you found one of the designs that was near perfect, you could mod what you didn't like in the files, print it out again, and voila. Expermiment with case designing until you had had enough of it. I like the big chonky radios. Personally, I h9t3 the Nintendo / Playstation style controllers myself. They look like a kid's toy, or like you're holding a pair of truck nvts in your hand. But I do want my gimbals in there as deep as possible and my stick ends as long as I possibly can be comfortable with.

I can tell you had fun editing this. Lmao

Love your video bro thanks!! I only have the QX7 and it does feel really big and clunky with unnecessarily big switches. I tried so hard to like the Radiomaster Zorro (which I bought for my girlfriend) but that now felt so small and the gimbals were so short because I like to pinch/hybrid. I'm yet to try the Boxer but I feel that it would be ideal for me because it looks like the sweet spot between the QX7 and the Zorro.

Are you talking about the type of dampeners like on the PS5 controller? The L and R top buttons that give you feedback?

Flysky Nirvana is... nirvana for thumbers. Best non-$130+ gimbals in the business too

I tried out some 3mm to 6mm stick extensions for a while... I liked the feel, but they were giving me carpal tunnel syndrome after an hour in the SIM lol... Wonder if adding the drop would fix the wrist strain I was having 🤔...

Deeper gimbals sound like an amazing mod. Is there any potential from the controllers in your collection for printing a more ergonomic case and transferring over electronics?

Cool H frame back there. I hope it becomes available for purchase, I’ve been hoping for a TF2 replacement that can fit the O3 while being lightweight and compact. I’ve always felt like H frames are the most efficient since they can have less carbon than X frames, and have shorter arms to twist and vibrate.

How do you call the parts that lower the gimbals? I have a hard time finding anything😢

The new pocket radiomaster radio look really similar to that print you made. Only difference is it doesnt use full sized gimbals and uses 18650.

i had this and i installed the cnc gimbals and leds which lowers the gimbal but the stick would hit on the case. I ve read people saying that this radiomaster has jitter. I found it really difficult to use full size gimbals as i have small hands.

I just got the Boxer and was highly irritated by the stick travel compared to the Tango 2. I put both stick ends to the same length (quite long) and measured the travel with a ruler. The stock gimbals of the boxer had 8mm less than the Tango. Also the up and down travel was less than left right (you can tell by the ring when you look straight down with one eye). But for the record: "when it ships it does not have full travel gimbals" means that the outer shell is preventing stick travel and letting them in changes that? Or are you only talking about your hands not being able to reach everything?

I miss these presentations.

Still love the Turnigy evolution. Perfect grip, large display. As i am no longer use AFHD2 it would be a try worth to mid it to ELRS. If i break it i will use it as seldom as now.

Bob, are you still mostly flying Emuflight? If so, have you been sticking with the mpu6000 or have you tried some of the bmi270 targets the emu devs made available?

Hi.. I currently purchased radiomaster pocket after owning boxer for travel. Boxer sticks are good for me, i have tiny hands. But pocket is so off that i struggle with it most of the time. I was about to this mod on pocket with spacer. I wanted to know if this will help with precision, like how i have in my boxer? Please advice

Have u tried the jumper t20. Looks very interesting

Ohh I hear you whanted a flatter transmitter for so long. Maybe i will try to just drop the gimbals with a spacer as a next best thing for now. Looking into a boxer but first like to know more about the upcomming jumper t20. Radiomaster pocket is also compelling but switches seams bad placed for a pincher...

I've been flying with the jumper t lite and it's just perfect for thumbs

Getting back into the hobby, wondering what I should upgrade my X9D to, and wondering what ever happened to Kabab. Lo and behold, this video drops. Did you get a chance to try AGO1 gimbals? They worth it?

good

What about the fresh release of the new radiomaster radio? Radiomaster Pocket. Small gimbals but small form factor.

So new RadioMaster Pocket Radio Controller might be the one what you want :D

DJI FPV RC ("v1") has the exact same size and mounting hole pattern for gimbals as Taranis, so you can fit Taranis gimbals in it if you like them more.

lol the editing. #cracked me up. Don’t cramp your style bro lol.

you might like the new jumperr t20

I play games with high dpi and fly with high rate. I found I'm never able to use most of the throw of a gimbal, I thought I need smaller remote, but my behavior didn't change using jumper tpro. Seeing you dropping the gimbal that might solve my problem.

I recently got a Radiomaster Zorro. The radio itself is really well built - can't knock that. However, I just can't get it to feel comfortable in my hands. Everywhere that seems comfortable for my fingers has a switch in the way. I've always wondered why the bodies of radios aren't slightly curved like an ergonomic keyboard.

Great video. I still fly the DJI black thing, holding it low with the thumbs hovering is not bad, find a way to make the DJI C2 better! I like you love not to deal with a receiver and just use the DJI system. Is it as bad as I read?

Good info for people looking for the same kind of ergonomic mods. However just because you like it that way doesn’t mean it should be made that way. If it sold that way there will be people that can’t stand it. Some people want shorter travel. I want indestructible electronics because I break them more than props lol

I applied some damping grease (the one Chris Rosser used as vibration absorber for frame) on gimbal and make it less noisy and i can feel some "drag" during flight.

The best controller I've ever had in my hands was from the Jyu Hornet 2. The drone was total sh*t but the controller, the gimbals and the stickends were the best I've ever flown with. The underside from the controller felt perfect in hands.

You should try rotating the whole gimbal assembly. I tried to build gimbal holders that can change their angle (similar to those Microsoft keyboards). The reasoning behind it was that your thumb doesn't naturally move vertically but more diagonal. It was really nice but I didn't have a 3D printer back then and bla bla. Should try again :) Damping idea is sick!

how much smaller is the boxer compared to qx7? Could u shoot me a photo? I need a smaller radio than my qx7

I was just discussing last night (and I don't know if you went over this because I just started the video), but I was thinking how awkward it is that gimbals aren't rotated slightly outward so that your thumbs are able to move in a straight line up and down. The current way, its near impossible to move ONLY throttle or pitch, without inadvertently adding some yaw or roll. Our thumbs CANNOT move in a perfectly straight line, up and down, while holding a radio, unless you grab it like you're a 6ft tall crab creature with a weird, wide grip on the sides of the radio.

10 mins after watching this video I got an email from Radiomaster about the “Pocket” radio lol.

if you get the AG01 you wont be able to drop the gimbals as much. the AG01 are thicccer. as thumber i will admit it is kinda hard to move my thumbs easily to the extremes of the gimbal travel. I'm not really sure what you gain by dropping the gimbal and extending the stick though. doesnt that get you back where you started?

For a pincher, the AG01 on the Boxer just sit perfect. Lower wouldn't work for me. In general the Boxer is really perfect for me :) Somehow I feel like you just basically set those axis deeper to resemble your feel of the much lower lying DJI gymbals ;) There is also dampening grease for those gymbals if you prefer that feel.

You should check out the flysky EL18. 5k resolution full size gimbals and all problems solved from the NV14. Ergonomics is insane on that radio.

are the spacers on thingy verse

Great video. The lack of thought that goes into making FPV/RC gear ergonomic is unfortunate. The other device with this issue is the FPV goggles. The DJI goggles don't fit a wide enough range of human face shapes, without aftermarket padding. The Goggles 2 are somewhat better for me, but the Goggles V1/V2 are ridiculously bad.

What do you think of the new Jumper T20 Formfactor ?

👍🏻👍🏻

I'd like it to feel like pressing the brake pedal into the floor. Where you can't just slam bottom. I think there is already a system for this kind of thing. I don't know what it's called but would be a flywheel on silicone or ceramic plate with an offset pin and wound spring. I've seen the mechanism as an input dampener or in centrifugal clutches. In a sandwich configuration would work just like the limited slip diffs in cars. With some careful work I think a think ceramic plate dampener may be logical. I wonder what could be done to apply the input pressure toward the plate to make it feel more responsive. More aggressive input = More Dampening. There is gearing in clocks that can do it, I don't know where their wizard is that steals my ideas but I need a Chinese/Swiss Radio, with ELRS 2w with a fan that sounds like a turbo diesel, extra cheese and a boob model to sell it to me!

Have you seen the Radiomaster Pocket?

why are u not reviewing a radiomaster pocket?

sounds like you just have baby hands sir jp

Do you not like the AG01 gimbals?

your prototype looks like the Mango as I Imagine... Tango2 thin and light clean switches, but a little more room for bigger battery and screen... internal Tracer and Crossfire... 2.4 for small things with tiny antennas... 900 for anything bigger...

i have mobility and pain problems on my fingers, a small gimbal really helps a lot, i use the commando 8, its not a very nice radio, but it fits well. Manufactures are moving away from small gimbals and im gonna suffer for that.

There are enough people in the community singing praises for the boxxer I'd really like to try one. I love my TX16S. But that was also a big money spend for this hobby. Do I love it because it's good? Or do i love it to justify the price?

TX16s FTW

Have you heard of the radiomaster pocket

Would be cool if there was a similar mod on the DJI remote 2 to lower the gimbals. Then making them longer might solve the issue

The other thing I would love to see is a radio that gives the rest of our fingers a good place to rest. Imagine if each finger and your palm had a surface to rest against with switches placed conveniently between these idle fingers. I would also like to see drone specific switches. 4 is fine, but I only really use 3. 1 2 position switch for arming, and 2 3 position switches for flight mode and turtle and beeper. The 4th switch could be rate profiles or something, but all the switches and knows on most radios are not used for drones. I hate the size and complexity if my TX 16s, and can't wait to try the pocket. The biggest thing I really want to see though is a remote that fits comfortably into both hands. I'm trying to switch from thumbing to pinching and these non ergonomic radios make that really hard. I'm pretty fond of my craptqcular little Emax radio. I'm just too lazy to get it bound up in place of my radiomaster for all of my emax drones. I hope you keep working on this problem. Someone will get it right eventually and it will revolutionize the way we interact with these little machines. The awesome thing about us biological entities is that we have an almost infinite capacity to learn and train our nervous system to an incredible level of automated complexity. To see this just watch any pro skateboarder in slow motion. I bet if that game controller was all you had to fly with, enough practice would make you proficient with it and would ruin it for big gimbals.

Cool video. Elrs is cool. But tracer is really what you should be flying.

of course most of the problems depend on hand size - so me having really long fingers, I'm totally fine with those old, large taranis boxes.