In case anybody is wondering why the DJ Jeep and Grumman LLV last so long, it's the KISS principle of engineering. Love those simple easy to maintain vehicles! Thanks again Jon.

I'd argue Grumman's most famous vehicles are of the *cat designation, with planes like the Wildcat, Hellcat, Bearcat, and F14 Tomcat. The LLV really should have been nicknamed the "Mailcat". (With thanks to Fat Electrician.)

I drove an LLV today! At my office we have a few dodge caravans, 2 ram promasters, one mercedes metris, a ford stepvan, and of course a bunch of LLVs.

My mailman sat in passenger seat and drove his bench seat Chevrolet Celebrity with his left hand and foot. He also happen to be my neighbor so I talked to him about it. He said he was compensated for using his own vehicle and could use any vehicle he wanted. Some others bought old used right hand drive DJ's but he said the car was more comfortable and reliable. My aunt became a mail carrier and bought a Jeep Patriot; they were available with right hand drive. Small Indiana rural county mail carriers used their personal vehicles from the 2000's and back. There was one official mail truck parked at the post office; that was used when their personal vehicle was being serviced or had a large package on their route; special deliveries. It looked like it was an older model of the period DJ from a city but with new paint and decals. It would occasionally deliver mail to my house growing up.

The old 1970s mail jeeps were one of those nice bits of americana.

Here in west Michigan, It's all Grumman LLV's powered by iron dukes. Lots of '87-'92s around here with very faded paint.

Before the LLV was a vehicle we just called 'The Half Ton' which was a van type RHD similar to the LLV. The seating was much better and there were vents that could be opened to blow air on your feet. A great feature that was never seen again. Pretty cool they made electric jeeps in the '70's . Never, ever seen one. Have been driving an LLV every day for 30 years now and most people don't know how noisy they are. Every metal and aluminum panel rattles at every bump. They were indeed built to last but need to be replaced. Our office uses the LLV's plus Pro Master vans and the Mercedes panel wagon. Can't stand the look of the new vehicle, nicknamed the Platypus! But AC does help.

The new mail truck looks like the pope mobile.

I can totally believe they are S-10 trucks. The old square bodies are my fave truck

The same company that made the legendary F-14 Tomcat also made the mail trucks that you se everywhere

Grumman wasn't lying, those Vehicles can Long Life

I know some areas around where I live, there are rural mail carriers that use older vehicles, like the XJ Jeep Cherokees, Chevy Venture minivans, and Ford Escort station wagons. I am glad to hear about the mail delivery trucks as I think these are very interesting vehicles. The mailman in my area, also like yours, drives an old Grumman LLV.

I drove a Dodge full size van that had a 318 Cubic Inch engine and a sliding side door for loading sacks of mail in addition to the traditional back door model. It was white with the USPS logos on both sides. Man was it fast! I loved it and used it whenever I could. It was especially good for Express Mail delivery, as it could fly from one stop to the next. The LLV was a real good delivery vehicle and I also liked using it on evening mailbox collection runs. The only bad thing about the LLV was that it had no side windows so you had to get real good at backing it up with the side mirrors.

I’ve started seeing Mercedes-Benz US postal vehicles more and more. They are using MB Metris minivans but they put the USPS emblem where the 3-pointed MB logo would normally be.

If your a mail carrier you can order a right hand jeep.

Imagine if AMC won the contract for US Mail vans. We could be having Jeep Mail vans today. RIP AMC. This video was interesting. I never thought twice about mail vans, but it’s a cool story.

Our RFD carrier provides his own vehicles and puts about 100 miles a day on them. A small car will last him about 3 years and the mileage he gets paid, pays for the car, multiple sets of tires due to gravel roads, service on the vehicles, in the end, provides a profit to the driver. They usually have at least 3 vehicles. The normal delivery vehicle, a backup vehicle, and a 4-wheel drive for when the roads are mud and when it snows. An old RFD mailman lost leg in WWII and his mail vehicle was always one with a manual 3-speed transmission. standard left-side steering and he sat in the middle of the seat. Toward the end of his career, he tried a Ford Maverick with an automatic transmission but traded it for a manual after about 5 months. We used to service his vehicles. A set of tires would only last about 4 months, he would average 3 flat tires a week, and the grease and oil changes and wash job due to his mileage every day was done every other Saturday. That was in the 1,000-mile oil change days.

Grumman LLV's were made in Muncy, Pennsylvania. My friend had a contract to haul 4 at a time with his flatbed truck. He would take them to Pittsburgh,where they were loaded on railcars and sent out west. I helped him load them,so I got to drive them. They only put enough gas in them to get them out of the factory. We carried a gas can in case they ran out while loading them.

I also work for the Postal Service, and so I drive an LLV almost every day. Sometimes i get to drive the other models, it just depends on what route im running and / or what im helping deliver that day. At my office, we have 2 dodge minivans, 3 FFV's, and multiple LLV's. Also, because we're such a rural area, a few of our rural carriers have their own personal Jeeps, but they are newer jeeps, not the older ones pointed out in this video.

Growing up in Scottsdale, Arizona. I remember in the 60s when the mail service used three wheel Cushmans for delivering the mail.

In Finland mail is delivered in very normal vans. Made in huge numbers, easy to buy and you get the latest tech. So cheap that they don't need to last for 30 years.

Thanks. My dad was a postman for 33 years and I remember him in the jeep and then the long life, which looked ugly at the time. I've always wanted an electric car since I was young, but I can't justify the cost, but a mail vehicle is perfect for electric: same distant everyday and can be charged at night. A long haul truck not so much!

From at least the '80s on back, our rural carrier used to run 20+ yr old left hand drive cars and drive them from the passenger seat!

My first car was a $175, 1972 international 1/ 4 ton ex mail truck Stepvan with right hand steering and straight six.... the same engine in an AMC gremlin. LOL. I loved it. Since then I a DJ-5 also but it had a hole in a piston. I drove it for several years like that, and removed the sliding doors and used it for my scuba diving salvage and repair work. It was pretty popular to see it around Beaufort, and in Hilton SC in the 1990s.

The postal service here in Gainesville, FL are using a mix of vehicles including some mini vans made by Mercedes.

My old home town's mail truck (rural route) used a 1944 willys jeep, im not sure if he still uses it but his grandfather got it surplus to do the job, then his father used it, and he used it and as far as i know it is still on the route doing its job. A CJ5 would also join it during the holidays so the 2 jeeps would be side by side at times.

Great video. I drove a '91 LLV. Anything over 35 MPH it felt like it was about to explode. They got in a Ford FFV once that I drove for a day, wow, what a difference. That was like a rocketship! I also drove Ram Promasters and Mercedes Metris vans on Sundays delivering Amazon packages. On a funny side note; both the GM LLV, and Ford FFV used Chrysler key blanks. Go figure!

Finally, I now know what the mail truck is called after the LLV. It was a burning question I had for years.

Interesting subject. As a kid I remember the 3- wheeled versions being used in urban neighborhoods, and the mail Jeep is ubiquitous. First class stamps were a nickel and postcards went anywhere in the world for 3 cents; my how times have changed! The Grumman LLV, like the Checker Marathon taxicab, saw GM producing parts for them long after their own vehicles stopped using them. When GM stopped making the parts, the vehicles they were used on had to come to an end which is why new production of the LLV ended; Grumman and the USPS wanted more but they couldn't be built. Many Letter Carriers disliked the LLV for numerous reasons, but all people will tell you that it's as reliable a vehicle as has ever been made, and that they're pretty tough too.

Our local mail trucks are Mercedes Benz Metra vans, and Grumman's although the new vans don't have a MB star on them.

Perfect timing. I was just talking with a mail lady about here vehicle. She said it took 3 months to get used to the right hand steering wheel and she quickly noted no Air Conditioning. I walk around it looking to see some kind of badging to ID who made them. Thus my smile when I saw this video. THANX I'm pretty sure it was the LLV version. Amazing. Finally a government agency that did one thing right with the LLV purchase.

About 16 years ago, I worked for a military contractor company called VSE Corp. Worked on alot of army reserve equipment in our shop in the Midwest. There were alot of talks about acquiring the contract to redurbish the LLV with a newly designed motor that was in development for testing. I can't quite tell you the actual business side of it all, but what I can tell you is that VSE had purchased wheeler brothers, which is the company that does the parts for USPS and other companies. Now our army reserve side was furloughed and thr last that was heard is VSE was performing some of the LLV refurbs down south area. Now that was 2013ish and that's the last that was heard. I don't think the program lasted long, but VSE still has (had) wheeler brothers, so they are involved in alot of the helping of the existing LLV. Just giving you a idea for a part 2 as you dig the rabbit hole.

Another well researched history video!! Keep up the great work!!

I enjoyed this. Thank you. I was a carrier from 1972 to 2006. Loved the LLVs. Hated the jeeps. 😊

As a child of the 80s, I have warm memories of the DJ 5 that brought our mail

My mailman in Charlotte NC uses his personal vehicle, with a rope and pulley system he devised to make it a right hand drive. I asked him about the new electric mail trucks coming out with the regen braking and he said he likes his better. I am betting he gets paid per mile to use his personal vehicle plus his paycheck. Enjoyed your video Jon.

Absolutely excited by this video! I'm glad to see good accurate content about the Grumman LLV getting made. Subscribed🎉 I'm already in love with your channel 😁

Well, if we have learned anything recently, it's that people don't learn from the past or they just don't know it.. God Bless brother. Thank you again for all your research and time

One of my Japanese friends sent a photo of just a normal Ford Transit van with a USPS style livery on it for a clothing store. It's interesting how we take it for granted but to other cultures it can be interesting

As someone who works at a post office I can say that we have 13 Grumman LLVs and 4 Mercedes vans. Great vid

I worked for a body shop doing alignments, had to align a mail truck once. You have to enter it on the computer as an S10, they're slow as Hell and it's really weird driving on the right side.

The moon lander was also made by same company.

Thanks for... err... posting... this.

I delivered mail for 28 years. I drove the Grumman LLV. the LLV was horrible in the snow, had no air conditioning and very poor heat. their replacement is long overdue

4:05...Interesting! Under "Express Charges", letters sent via Pony Express weighing 1/2 oz or under were charged $1.00 back in 1860. In 2024, that would be $37.16! 5:23...Rural mailboxes were exactly the same in 1910 as they are now. Amazing!

Surprised that you didn't mention the RHD vans made by Mercedes (part of their Metris lineup). That's about all we have in our part of New Jersey. They first appeared about three or four years ago and seem to be pretty reliable.

Growing up, one of my neighbors bought and restored a Cushman 'Mailster'.

In 1995, due to production overrun, a small number of LLVs were available to the public. They are all registered as an S-10. There were some odd restrictions, like what colors you can paint them and that they cannot be used for any delivery service.

Had no idea those hilarious little mail trucks were on top of an S10 chassis .. I'm in logistics but didn't know how deep this rabbit hole really is ..!! We actually had some hybrids in our fleet about 10 years ago .. They were a Ford comm chassis and driveline - great idea, but the switch over from electric to ICE happened at about 20 km/hr (12 or 13 mph) which was super dangerous when making left hand turns with oncoming traffic (they would start moving, then there was a big lag as the engine came on) .. Nowadars we are piloting several fully electric models which employees seem to be pretty stoked about

I wanted to join the Post Office to drive LLVs. Now I drive a different delivery truck.

Our local USPS uses the Grumman LLV primarily. They are being supplemented by a right hand drive Mercedes Metris van. I spoke with one of the delivery drivers who said the Mercedes was infinitely more comfortable. He was worried about the stigma of the Post office using a Mercedes. I said that in other parts of the world, Mercedes is known for fleet and commercial vehicle, versus their status as a luxury vehicle in the US. I believe the Metris delivery vehicles have the Mercedes logos removed though. .

Never seen these unique vehicles. So interesting. I find it quite fascinating as someone who lives in south america

I was a rural carrier for 16 years before retiring. I mostly drove Chevy Celeberities and Olds Cieras. I could easily sit on the right hand side and still reach the peddles and steering wheel on the left. Being front wheel drive they could pull thru places that a LLV or DJ Jeep would get stuck, provided I was not dragging bottom. I would often drive thru six inches or more of water. The Jeeps were bad about rusting out and also prone to turning over. I understand a lot of the LLVs caught fire due to a design flaw in how the gas line was run. Ford Tauruses were good also, altho I only drove one of them once or twice.

Fascinating subject, especially since I am in the delivery business. The LLVs truly lived up to their name. Amazingly, its underpinnings are the humble S-10 Blazer! It's my understanding that some of them were converted to run on CNG. It's also interesting that the USPS and Amazon have gone similar routes by having vehicles designed specifically for their own use. While I have not driven the EDV (The name for the Amazon Rivian vehicle), I have been in them several times and they are perfectly mated to Amazon package delivery. Hopefully, the USPS vehicle will perform the same or even better than the Rivian. Fantastic video, Jon. Thank you for this excellent video!

Just to add to your list of local delivery vehicles that the US Post Office used, in the early 1980s they also used Ford Pintos. They were standard left-hand drive with the passenger seat removed. I remember seeing several of those when I was a kid. They had square headlights, so they were probably all 1980 models.

At Grumman we were proud to win the LLV and deliver on our promises

I've been looking forward to this one. Nice, thanks!

The mail people in my area don’t even use vehicles they just walk 😂

Little known fact about the Grumman Llv, while basically underpinnings of a S-10. Even the steering wheel says Chevrolet, however instead of using the one sided GM keys of the time, they used Chrysler 2 sided keys. So it doesn't matter which way you put the key in.

Dad once said that a Willys jeep and a mail truck were the most different sounding vehicles on earth 🌍 because of their designs and body shape and simplicity !

Interestingly, Capital District (206-209 zip codes) in Maryland, where I used to work, refused to get FFV's when they first came out around 2000. They didn't want to have to carry parts for a second delivery vehicle. When I moved to Baltimore District (zips that start with 210-219), almost all the RHD vehicles for the city carriers were FFV. The LLV's were mainly on rural routes.

I know there are likely a bunch of prototype vehicles that existed. I recently saw a video about the Grumman Kubvan of which I guess 500 were tested by the USPS and helped them settle on the design of the LLV. Its drivetrain was based on a VW Diesel Rabbit.

This was more educational than the actual car qualification class we had to take before we can deliver the mail. Thank you for making this video. 💌

It's time for the USPS to tighten it's belt. Starting with ditching Saturday delivery. Junk mail is subsidizing first class mail.

I'm really surprised that you didn't mention the Cushman "Mailster", which was very common for a few years in the 1960s. They turned out to be unreliable and unsafe to drive, so they were phased out in favor of the Jeep "Dispatcher". But at one time the USPS had as many as 17,000 "Mailsters", made by several different companies. I haven't found a list of all the manufacturers-- Wikipedia calls it a "Westcoaster", but the ones I saw in Wisconsin were made by Cushman.

I remember back a while ago they used Ford Pintos. I knew a girl who bought one when the post office sold them off in the late 80's. She spray-bombed it pink and it was hideous.

0:00 thanks for the shout out

In my area (Columbus Ohio) there's mostly Mercedes vans or dodge mail trucks now with random dodge minivans, Chevy minivans, Ive seen one or 2 LLVs about but I think most got retired in 2020-2022.

That is one strange bendy mailbus at 6:17. Bends only laterally, not into the curve.

THEY STILL USE THESE. IRON DUKE AND EVERYTHING AS FAR AS THE ENGINE. AND JUST LIKE IN THE FIERO AND OTHER VEHICLES THAT STILL CATCHES ON FIRE 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🚒🚒🚒

4:39 That is the Post office branch I've worked at for 20 years, albeit not in that building for many, many years.

As someone who works on the vehicles for a living doing on site maintenance contracted through the post office. The older LLVs are a interesting to work on to just say the least there usually in pretty poor condition due to there age. But there some of the most high mileage vehicles I’ve ever seen I’ve seen several on over 800,000 miles(I’m not sure if the original engines but when looking under the hood it sometimes looks like it). But I do see many Mercedes metris aswell and ford transits. By far the most complained about post office vehicles I’ve heard from VMF mechanics are the Metris and FFV. The FFV becuase the engine got a redesign during the production at some loin and use a different size oil filter. The metris because it’s a European car and form what I’ve herd simply isnt durable enough for the kind use those vehicles get. The video was great and it was cool to see more information about the history of these vehicles.

We have the new Mercedes vans for delivery. In fact, they are outfitted in the Charleston metro area (Moncks Corner) by Knapheide. Their lot is huge and packed full of vans waiting for outfitting. Nearby, there is a storage lot of these vans that literally goes as far as the eye can see. There has to be thousands of those vans sitting waiting to be outfitted. As for the vans themselves, I can't see how a Mercedes is going to last 20 years and be economical to maintain.

Studebaker Zip Van. A favorite of mine.

The LLV was built on the two wheel drive chassis with a four wheel drive rear end hence the different track width front and rear.

Any vehicle that doesn’t have regenerative braking is at a disadvantage in urben/suburban delivery. The life of an LLV is an endless duribility test. Overload it, hoping to avoid a second trip. Floor it up to 35 mph, then nail the brakes and stop in a box that is 9" wide and 12" long. Count 3 & repeat 400 to 700 times in a six hour period. Oh, and every 5 houses turn the engine off long enough to run to the nearest door and back.

Nice program. Found Magnolia Springs, AL, Detroit, MI and Lake Geneva, WS, the mail is delivered by boat. No lawsuits found here. The deliveries on Lake Geneva are performed on a tourist boat and guests pay to watch the mail being delivery.

There's an old Grumman factory near me on Long Island. It has been converted to a soundstage, (still called Grumman) for shooting TV / Film

The Iron Duke was a great reliable engine...I am sure the long life vehicles came with a metal camshaft gear and not that dreaded fiber one that sheds teeth at 85,000 miles or so.

When I was a kid, our address began with RFD#1... I've never had an actual postal vehicle for mail delivery. I'm in a rural area, and we've always had it delivered by our postal clerk using their personal vehicles. Before they got rid of bench seats, they'd just drive from the passenger seat, now, they just go up the wrong side of the road. Never understood why they didn't use electric vehicles either, it makes perfect sense. You don't need a lot of power, it's stop and go with a fairly short route. It's too bad they couldn't use the Chevy Bolt or some othe small EV as a base, of course, being unibody it would be difficult.

I worked for the British Royal Mail for over 20 years. We never had purpose built delivery vehicles, not even with the driver's position on the 'wrong' side. We drive on the left in UK and with the steering wheel on the right it meant stepping out into traffic when leaving the vehicle. Passenger seats were still in place, although some of the later vehicles allowed this to fold down and provide a platform to hold a box full of mail.

Most enjoyable thanks 😅

The LLV's with the Iron Duke 2.5 came with a TH700R4 transmission, not the TH180.

that DJ5 military style mail jeep you buy from the government for about $250 back in 1990s

If you watch a documentary called "Who Killed The Electric Car" you may see some insight as to why the EV mail carriers were cancelled.

There are old LLVs still in service around here (Atlantic County, NJ). But there are also some kind of brand new minivans as well.

Speedy Delivery!

Our people drive Grummans, but I've seen a few Mercedes-Benz Vitos.

Very interesting video! Who knew? The next modernization might be to update the postal personnel to less angry and vitriolic version.

They still use LLVs here. Some of them are on their fourth engine and chassis rebuild. Hey really look like hell. No heat, no A/C, the only safety feature is the seat belt. We can drive vehicles like this today, but it’s good enough for Postal employees😮

Got a 92 s10 with the duke, she's no power house but gets the job done.

I always figured suburban mail delivery was the best use case for a commercial electric vehicle (like the Kurbwatt) since they rarely go fast (which is an EVs worst talent) and do stop-and-go continuously (which they are great at) and they burn no* fuel while the operator sits at a mailbox moving stuff about. *other than heat, air, radio etc which runs continuously by time versus by distance but is trivial compared to propulsion.

I collect stamps and postal history and learnt something about the early postal systems, I'd love to know if anyone knows exactly how delivery of Pauls epistles would have been organised. the mail trucks show how the size and lack of population density make the USPS delivery systems so different to Royal Mail in Britain

I wonder how Japanese Kei trucks would have stacked up. They seem to last a long time and are already right-hand drive.

the city i live in still uses some of those llvs

In 1969 the post office bought a large amount of AMC Ambassadors for route delivery

Considering the rise in mail theft and robbing letter carriers in the U.S., maybe the USPS should buy up-armored HMMWVs (Hummers)?

Another brilliant video

My local mail lady drives several different vehicles regularly. The typical mail van, a left drive 90s Subaru, 80 Jeep and some 80s mini van. I have no idea why she uses so many different vehicles

Well done I really enjoyed this video