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What is Paizo doing? Should I???

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All Things Lich

All Things Lich

Күн бұрын

OCR license and Pathfinder 2.0 - help me sort it out so my game becomes the coolest thing evah!

Пікірлер: 94
@ChristianIce
@ChristianIce Жыл бұрын
Ok, there's a distinction to make at the top. One thing is the licence, another thing is the content that comes with it. The OGL was the licence, the SRD was the content that you were allowed to use without scratching your head about copyrights and IPs. What you'll able to do with the ORC licence depends on who is licencing what. Paizo will have an SRD (or they'll call it something else, I don't know) which will specify what you can refer to and what's their protected IP, exactly like with the OGL you could refer to a mechanic or a monster in the list, but not to a mindflayer or whatever was out of their SRD. In short, you will have to wait and see if that contains what you need, but be confident that it will, because they are not doing all this mess to then release a restricted document. As a side note, you don't need any licence at all if you don't use any IP. You could publish an entire scenario where there's a "dragon" there, "2 goblins" there, a Golem, a Medusa, because those names are public domain, and if you do a little research you'll find out that 90% of D&D / Pathfinder stuff is public domain anyway, just don't use descriptions and stats where it's their IP.
@ChristianIce
@ChristianIce Жыл бұрын
P.S. Paizo claims that all Pathfinder 2e doesn't contain anything related to the OGL, and they put it the OGL in the book to have their 3rd parties being able to publish content compatible with their game. So, when it will be done, all the mechanics that Paizo uses will be available as you can see them already in 2e.
@AllThingsLich
@AllThingsLich Жыл бұрын
Very helpful. Thank you
@colinsmith1495
@colinsmith1495 Жыл бұрын
@@AllThingsLich More, Paizo is claiming the ORC will be system agnostic, meaning you won't be at all TIED to Pathfinder. Any other system could sign onto the ORC and put out their SRD or whatever they call it, and any system on the ORC license is fair game for anyone producing anything. This could be a golden change, allowing homebrew ideas to be put out for multiple systems, multiple settings.
@priestesslucy3299
@priestesslucy3299 Жыл бұрын
@@AllThingsLich as Colin mentioned, ORC is an agnostic license, not a ruleset. Many game systems will be published under the ORC license, we already know three of them. Pathfinder 2, Starfinder and Black Flag. In particular, Black Flag is likely to lean more towards 5E if that's your preference.
@colinsmith1495
@colinsmith1495 Жыл бұрын
I first started TT gaming (recently at least) with 5E with my best friend DMing me. After a couple years, I moved over to a Pathfinder group because it seemed more fun to me, but my friend stayed with 5E. No hard feelings, just different systems. That's where it stood for probably 3 years. Thanks to this OGL drama, I just helped my best friend write up his first Pathfinder character, and he's going to be joining my game next session. I see this as an absolute win.
@deltaarena2447
@deltaarena2447 Жыл бұрын
Yes you can, the mechanics of Pathfinder are fully open, they even state that Pf2e only uses the OGL to let people use those rules. Obviously we'll have to wait for the finalized documents to know for sure what's attached to it, but I'm sure they'll make their system available. Personally I'm gonna create things for Pf2e and hold onto them until ORC comes out to launch them with ORC.
@stochasticagency
@stochasticagency Жыл бұрын
DM's Guild, the first gut punch to the creative. OK, so if you are doing ANYTHING as a creative, no matter the medium, never, and I mean NEVER agree to ANYTHING where you give up control over YOUR WORK! Far too many people we duped by the prestige of being on DM's Guild and not understanding that; that was the first attack on creative control. If you have stuff there, it's no longer yours to control. You can not publish anywhere else, do a Kickstarter, and, just like the OGL 1.1 language, they can do whatever they want with it.
@AllThingsLich
@AllThingsLich Жыл бұрын
as an artist and creator in whatever realm (personal or public), I get the creative control part. It's a big deal to keep your stuff, YOUR STUFF.
@EricSRiley
@EricSRiley Жыл бұрын
Okay, lots of questions here. I'm not a lawyer, but I've been an OGL gamer for a LONG time, I'm a professional librarian, and my ex was a free and open source software developer so I'm deeply aware of the ethics behind these kinds of licenses and the OGL and the publishing world of game books. The purpose of the OGL in the first place was to create a way to identify the non-copyrightable mechanics of the D&D roleplaying game and separate it from the other works of intellectual property within the copyrighted book. The biggest hammer that TSR used in the bad old days was suing people into oblivion and it wrecked their public reputation. When Wizards originally bought the D&D brand they wanted to fix their reputation and salvage the brand by making the rules set open source. So Wizards retained the rights and trademarks on Forgotten Realms and certain unique creatures, but the mechanics of the game became something that anyone could use or modify under the OGL. Now with their current management they're choosing to close their mechanics to other developers. Paizo and a whole bunch of other publishers are going back to that original ethic of making their game mechanics open source so that anyone can use them for anything. The ORC license that they're working on right now is a truly collaborative effort by some of the biggest publishers in the industry who want to continue this practice. If WotC wants to take its ball and go home, Paizo said fine, but we're going to keep playing on this field with our own ball. The new ORC license is going to be system agnostic, meaning anyone can use any rules that are going to be made open source. Paizo's own open source content SRD is the Archives of Nethys and it is practically everything in the game except their specific Golarion content which they are holding onto as their own IP. But Kobold, Green Ronin, Chaosium, and anyone else can release their ruleset under the ORC license and make it free as well. What this also means is that you don't have to be beholden to any one System. You could create your adventure and plug and play ANY of these other rulesets into it and sell your world to EVERYONE. All you would have to do is find or build compatible elements to make your world work in any other open rules set. And YOU could create new game mechanics and rules and make your own rules open to other developers as well if you wanted to do so, all while retaining the right to all of your own original creative work at your discretion. It's breathtakingly free. I think the biggest hurdle that's going to come from this is where you want to spend your time in learning these other systems. Pathfinder definitely has a leg up because of its similarity to D&D and it's already got a deep well of fantasy creatures and rules to work within. But Kobold, MCDM, Critical Role and others are going to be coming out with their own systems and we'll see how well they fare. The one thing that's going to make or break those systems is having compatible content. So you, as an adventure writer and world builder will need to figure out how to allocate your work most effectively and throw your hat in for who you want to support.
@AllThingsLich
@AllThingsLich Жыл бұрын
thanks for the thorough and extremely helpful reply. I'll have to re-read it multiple times to digest it all, but for now, thanks for taking the time.
@UrbanVerse69
@UrbanVerse69 Жыл бұрын
I just picked up the PF2e core book today. I'd pretty much avoided Pathfinder lately, even though the 1e version was my go to for years during the dark 4e days. I'm intrigued to learn how it works; supposedly the balance is amazing, and the gameplay sounds like it will be a lot better than 5e ever was (I was never really into 5e, even though the local group had gone back to it the last few years). Kind of starting to get ideas to develop my own fantasy setting based on the PF2e's rules to help with learning the system. Also, I've recently ordered the Castles & Crusades starter set, and am waiting for it to arrive. I'm quite curious to see how it plays and give it a try as well, so there are definitely other options out there.
@TheUnluckyEverydude
@TheUnluckyEverydude Жыл бұрын
Character creation is wild. I love my completely viable sword and board rouge.
@yourfavoritesteve
@yourfavoritesteve Жыл бұрын
The PF2 Beginners Box is a phenomenal way to get into the game quickly and easily. It steps you through increasingly advanced encounters, teaching you and your players as you go.
@felixcohen1247
@felixcohen1247 Жыл бұрын
The ORC license hasn't been written yet, so right now we only have the blog post to go off. What they stated is that in their opinion anything published under OGL 1.0 is legally protected. Which means that you can use anything published under OGL in your game if it doesn't fall under "product identity". If my understanding is correct (not a lawyer) this means that you can already use anything of pathfinder 1E, 2E, and starfinder as long as you don't mention lore stuff. And even then, i believe there are programs where you can write things using their lore in some way if you publish it on a specific website. My understanding is that ORC will allow pretty much the same things, just with extra built in protections so that no one will be able to claim that they can revoke the license. That said it hasn't been written yet, so no one actually knows the specific terms. TLDR; you can probably already safely publish anything using pathfinder rules, but the ORC will eventually give you more peace of mind. I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice.
@colinsmith1495
@colinsmith1495 Жыл бұрын
From their blog post, I think their objective is much larger. The OGL was heavily tied to the SRD and thus D&D, though a few other things moved into it. It sounds like they're going to make the ORC open to any system that signs on. This would allow someone to publish a 'beast of the week' with a statblock for Pathfinder 2E, and one for Black Flag, and one for whatever other systems sign on (which I'm sure there'll be at least a couple more). And it's all the same beast, with the same lore, just adjusted for each system.
@nicka3697
@nicka3697 Жыл бұрын
You should have confidence that writing an adventure path or campaign setting that refers to Paizo mechanics will not destroy you financially. Paizo will not come after you unless you infringe their copywrited IP on their world for example. Obviously the ORC licence is not written yet, no lawyer has had sight of it. With DND right now you can't have the same level of confidence. If you start a kickstarter and especially if it is more successful than you expect WOTC may change the rules on you and take you to the cleaners to remove all your money and the shirt off your back.
@Kconv1
@Kconv1 Жыл бұрын
From my understanding as a layman, and their press release. Its system agnostic meaning you can use any set of rules, settings, monsters, etc that are currently uploaded (I use uploaded as a general term for given to the law firm for publishing). So the likely first two will be black flag and pathfinder 2.0, but you should feel free to send them your own rules, worlds, modules, etc. This is going to be BEYOND epic, we are going to have a golden age of gaming the likes of which has never been seen! Here is the beauty from what I understand, by taking you also give, and by giving you also take, so everyone gives and everyone takes. Now you should probably wait for the faq, but this is what Ryan Darcey was talking about in one of the interviews. We are the players, we are the creators, Wotc needs us, we dont need wotc #wedontneedwotc
@colinsmith1495
@colinsmith1495 Жыл бұрын
Paizo seems to be trying to take the OGL, which was explicitly a D&D license, and open it up to ANYONE, ANY SYSTEM, ANY SETTING that's published with the license. Yes, this is going to be beyond epic. This will open the 'wild west' of creativity that existed for D&D-and-close only and open it for EVERYONE.
@Kconv1
@Kconv1 Жыл бұрын
@@colinsmith1495 yup
@pedrocastrioto5744
@pedrocastrioto5744 Жыл бұрын
The OGL was already system agnostic. The worst thing is that it is owned and controlled by WOTC. If they can deauthorize it or nor is a legal discussion, but the ORC seems to be planned to not be under the power of anyone that has financial stakes in the RPG world in order to never have one of those companies revoke or change the ORC in a bad way.
@ironroad2152
@ironroad2152 Жыл бұрын
Pathfinder 2e and Starfinder only used the OGL as at the time they did not want to write their own, and wanted to have a framework for third party creators. They believed that it would never come to the situation we are currently in. Pathfinder 2e and Starfinder use no WotC SRD and are therefore unaffected by this for their own content. The reason for the ORC License is so that they and the other companies can support those third party independent creators that are so important to our community. The license is currently being worked on but I think it is safe to say that any of the companies that sign on to and support this license are ones we should support. So go dive into the lore and grab the Pathfinder 2e Beginer Box and the Lost Omens World Guide perfect time.
@JacksonOwex
@JacksonOwex Жыл бұрын
1) The Pathfinder Core Rulebook is so big because it's the equivalent to the Player's Handbook and the Dungeon Master's Guide and Pathfinder 2E Gamemastery Guide is NOT required to play, it is mostly alternate/variant rules and other things to run games, it's more of a TOOL KIT than a GUIDE. I do NOT like it's name because people from outside will have the wrong idea about what it is. 2) As far as I know from what I have seen or heard the Open RPG Creative, ORC(full name is something close to that) Pathfinder 2E WILL be printed with the license(when it's done, which could be awhile), I believe they also said they intend to stick Starfinder under that license as well! The letter/post from Paizo also mention Kobold Press so they are likely to print Black Flag(or their system if that's not it's name) under the ORC, which is SYSTEM NEUTRAL(pretty sure the OGL is too, technically at least) 3) I already haven't been a fan of D&D products so I've only been PLAYING in games but had NO plans to run 5E(or even waste time getting into 6E/OD&D) so this whole thing has made it pretty easy for me to say "F*** D&D, F*** WotC/Hasbro, F*** all their stuff" 4) CR... well... they made a post...
@socoblah
@socoblah Жыл бұрын
This doesn't answer your underlying question of what to do since you are in the thick of creating your work, but as far as my gaming group, we are switching from 5e to Pathfinder 2. I ordered my books already and have started to get familiar with the system.
@hazardpay8560
@hazardpay8560 Жыл бұрын
I just got back from trying to go buy PF2E books at my local game shops.... The Backlash is REAL My primary store, owned by an old friend, is sold out and says his supplier is completely out and has no idea when they will get more. He's had more foot traffic asking for those books in the last week than he's seen since they came out. The alternate store said the same thing. The only book I could find at one of the big box stores was the "Guns and Gears" book and the 'Bestiary' May have to order direct form Paizo, dunno what else to do. WotC done screwed the pooch....
@sculptor682
@sculptor682 Жыл бұрын
Answer: We're not going to know exactly what things will look like for some months or even a couple of years from now. If you're asking for what to do currently, I'd advise to develop your own IP content, using Pathfinder 2 as a placeholder. The expectation being that the SRD for ORC will be derrived from Pathfinder 2 in some way. But one should hope that the SRD itself will endure aggressive playtesting, so for the sake of quality, I'd not hope to see ORC released too soon. As for Mercer, most assume he's already boxed in with licensing contracts, even before the "OGL 1.1" was presented to him. I personally hope that his legal team is laying the groundwork for him to begin a new season and new publishing using either Pathfinder 2, or the ORC SRD sometime in the future. But I'd not expect his operation to be able to make (or even announce/NDA) that change as rapidly as the TTRPG publishers have. Matt's situation is surely a tangled web of contractual obligations he'd need time to wriggle out of. I wouldn't count on waiting for him to make any announcements.
@Tsudico
@Tsudico Жыл бұрын
Linda from Gizmodo has an interview with the president of Paizo and they discuss timeline for ORC. The goal is to get the first draft in February and hopefully the final version will not be too much after that (like March) but that of course depends on the feedback they receive. Given that they are trying to future proof this as much as possible, that seems like a really aggressive timeline but I think it is also necessary so people aren't left in limbo.
@emanueleliparesi6118
@emanueleliparesi6118 Жыл бұрын
i'm running a site that use ogl to work with pathfinder rules, IF the orc will work like the ogl 1.0a like they claimed here what you should do: You have to attach the license to your product this means that all mechanics of your product will became free cotent for all to use, when it comes to your IP like the world name characters etc you have to add your credit in a section of the license to keep the right that only you can use it. If you want to refer to Paizo's IP like the lost omens setting, abadar etc etc you have to also use the paizo community use. If you want to indicate your product as compatible with pathfinder you have to subscribe also the pathfinder combatibility license. This is how it works for now under the OGL 1.0a
@KyleHoughton
@KyleHoughton Жыл бұрын
Monte Cook Games has had an OGL-type contract for their Cypher Syaem for about half a year now, they've already been updating/clarifying the language to make it far more creator friendly. As it stands now, my hat is thrown in with them.
@AllThingsLich
@AllThingsLich Жыл бұрын
big fan of Numenera so maybe I'll journey down that road - it's at least worth a look.
@KyleHoughton
@KyleHoughton Жыл бұрын
@@AllThingsLich yeah man Numenera has really sparked some great inspiration for me. That's one of my goals for the year is to run at least a few sessions of that.
@reaemishi2278
@reaemishi2278 Жыл бұрын
From my understanding of the intended language, and I've only done my pre-law, the ORC license will apply to anything from Pathfinder 2.0 and beyond. Pathfinder 1e is likely too laden with OGL content to rehabilitate. As to what content is covered, the suggestion is that the systems and mechanical components of the game are all included gratis. I believe the only things that would be off limits would be so called "content harvesting". Lifting art from their books, unlicensed use of original characters, ECT. As long as you keep your hands away from the ctl+c command or don't, god forbid, run an unlicensed reprint of paizo books you are probably fine. Those are suggestions however, and until the language is finalized and made public I can't know any of this for certain. I mostly work on d100 based systems though so I have to make so much of the content myself that I'm probably less effected than most.
@thegreatfrosting
@thegreatfrosting Жыл бұрын
my take on the first question is that the ORC wants to create an OGL that is tailor-able to any game system so that people have legal protection to use that system without getting bit in the ass later on, much like how we are getting it with the OGL and its pending update with the D20 system/SRD's. for example, if you build a setting in pathfinder 2e and then hypothectically say paizo created Pathfinder3e under a license similar to the DnD 4th editions GSL you would be fine to continue publishing stuff for 2e reguardless of whatever this 3e's license looks like. the point about paying for it and then putting it in a non-profit foundation focused on open source is to get it out of any one persons hands so the scenario with the OGL does not happen again. on the question about taking specific game ideas, apparently that has gone to court and has ruled that the underlying mechanics (not the wording but how numbers get added together) are actually not copyrightable. so if you wanted to cobble together and play test a system of your own making you should be mostly in the right as long as your not copying the specific wording or style that say pathfinder or dnd have in their manuals. also i am not a lawyer and am probably wrong on some of this
@AllThingsLich
@AllThingsLich Жыл бұрын
lawyer or not, I appreciate your clarifications. Makes a lot more sense now. Seems that I can either move forward and not sweat the small details - using my own wording - as mechanics aren't copyrightable, or I should take it slow and see what shakes out in a month.
@DoctorTurdmidget
@DoctorTurdmidget Жыл бұрын
Just like the OGL and the SRD, the ORC license is separate from any rules. Paizo already has a SRD you can use (under the old OGL), but they said they'll be releasing stuff under the ORC license. Other companies using ORC will choose which parts of their systems will be open content, but that won't happen until the license is finalized and available for use. If I were you, I wouldn't do anything with your product until we see the final version of the OGL. I was already burning out on D&D, and was getting into OSR games. I'll play Pathfinder if anyone I know wants to run it, but I'll be running a DCC campaign. PF2e is an elegant system with some really cool character option. But when I run a game, I like it rules-light, quick and easy.
@AllThingsLich
@AllThingsLich Жыл бұрын
great advice. Thank you.
@VMSelvaggio
@VMSelvaggio Жыл бұрын
Do it! I already have played the Starfinder variant, and I love it, because I LOVE Sci-fi. However, I am currently paging through my newly-acquired Core Rulebook for Pathfinder 2E, and I am intrigued and delighted. I picked up the Core Rulebook and the Gamemastery Guide today, and I have the 1st Bestiary on my Wish List for Amazon, I will be acquiring it shortly. I have spent the last 5 hours today on my day off, converting my Homebrew World's entries to Pathfinder 2E Stat blocks and information from the book and the Archives of Nethys. I say go for it. One thing I can say, I have been repeatedly asked to play Pathfinder with a couple circles of my friends, but I have never been familiar with the system until I was compelled to do so.
@AllThingsLich
@AllThingsLich Жыл бұрын
1st impressions..likin' it more than D&D, specifically 5e?
@stephenarnold7696
@stephenarnold7696 Жыл бұрын
@@AllThingsLich my group switched over and I think it's way more flexible than 5e and more balanced and makes the players rely more on teamwork
@stochasticagency
@stochasticagency Жыл бұрын
With anything in this space, it's better to wait for the final document. The intention is to take the corporate control away from the entity in question and put it in the hands of a, get this, 3rd Party. The article on Piazo's website reads as if this is the sole document Azora Law would have. Not it AND an SRD. So, in other words, each company would still produce its own SRD and then quickly use the ORC to allow 3rd party publishers to use their SRD. So a publisher would need to fill in what they are providing under the ORC, and then, much like the OGL, there will be a section for the 3rd party to put in their stuff. I get the feeling that Piazo is talking with other publishers, and they are collectively working on the ORC language with Azora Law. They will likely use the OGL 1.0a as the model and then apply the legal language to ensure that what was potentially going to happen with OGL 1.1 can NOT happen. Should you go with it, I'd wait until the whole thing is public. Does this stop you from working on non-mechanical aspects, no. The stage you are talking about, where Piazo is holding onto the tropes, likely had more to do with familiarity for the fan base. Think of it this way: Pathfinder 1st ed is like the original D&D 1e; when Gary wanted to get rid of Arneson, they moved to AD&D. PF2ed is almost its own thing now. The "expression" of the rules diverged enough, making this the likely reason for giving them and their legal team confidence in defending their position. Look, I'm an old D&D player, but my style, preferences, and taste have changed. I get it. This is the revolution that we needed to get people's attention and move away from a dominant player on the field. The near future possibilities are exciting and confusing for the d20 crowd. So, work on your material and wait for the ORC to come out and get more info.
@AllThingsLich
@AllThingsLich Жыл бұрын
thank you.
@Raising_Runelords
@Raising_Runelords Жыл бұрын
From what I've read, the new ORC licence is system agnostic, you COULD use the Pathfinder or Starfinder SRD as the rules as mechanical framework anyone can use... but the ORC licence is also going to allow OTHER SRD's as well. Say Kobold Press have signed up for ORC, but they want to instead specify their own SRD instead of the Pathfinder or Starfinder SRD, there would be provision for that, same with Green Ronin etc, etc, etc,
@JB-wc9cr
@JB-wc9cr Жыл бұрын
I would work on the lore and then spend time play testing the different systems that will most likely go to the orc licence . As for publishing you have to put the licence in the book. If it is an open licence I believe you do not have to register it. The new orc may require people register srd docs if they are developing a system… we’ll have to see. A list of some games using the ogl, most I think will use the orc going forward Pathfinder/Starfinder, 13th Age, Old School Essentials, Castles and Crusaders, Mutants and Masterminds, Swords and Wizardry, Dark Souls RPG, Stargate RPG, Dungeon Crawl Classics. We shall have to see. Sign up for black flag play test. Watch a lot of game review videos to get a sense of which systems may be best. Then hit the ground running when the licence is solidified. I do not think it will be long. The publishers want to get away from Wotc and being dependent on dnd. Stay positive and keep working on your projects
@AllThingsLich
@AllThingsLich Жыл бұрын
your last sentence is gold. Thank you.
@logansanchez7998
@logansanchez7998 Жыл бұрын
Pathfinder 2e was worth looking into before all this ogl stuff, now you just have an opportunity to play a better game
@tytrdev
@tytrdev Жыл бұрын
You know what confuses me. I’ve been getting more and more into D&D and creating content for my own campaigns. Because of this and some of my other creative outlets (music and digital 3D art modeling/sculpting) I’ve been seriously considering becoming a third party content creator for TTRPGS. What’s wild to me is that despite all the seemingly positive good guy vibes coming from Paizo, the pathfinder infinite license agreement feels…almost as bad as the planned OGL 1.1? Pathfinder infinite takes a 50% royalty and requires that you allow any other pathfinder infinite publishers (including Paizo) to use your content for free, without royalties, for nothing more than crediting you as the source. I’m super new to looking into all of this and just trying to understand the playing field and what my options are. Despite Paizo’s recent messaging inspiring confidence, the pathfinder infinite license seems kinda shitty to me. Hoping there’s another license out there somewhere (other than the CUP) that works for commercial use and doesn’t feel as Wizardy…
@Krix6426
@Krix6426 Жыл бұрын
This won't change anything for my group except future purchases. Sometimes I run other genres, but we like our Fantasy, & I like my version of the D&D multiverse. We have fun there. Pathfinder is more rules than this old-school guy needs or desires. So, it doesn't work for me. The WOTC mess is internet noise, as far as I'm concerned. We purchased a 5e library & there is nothing wrong with it. I will continue just using it for fantasy. Possibly, something better may come along, but if I tossed everything I like away because the creators end up being jerks, I would have, nearly, nothing at all in life.
@Lightarmorknight
@Lightarmorknight Жыл бұрын
While it would be prudent to hold and wait till a slightly more stable ground is set I think your first thoughts are correct WotC screwed the pooch. I myself am five books away from having the complete collection of 5e that I will archive as a personal bookmark to the history of tabletop but that aside I have had to consider is it all worth it? What do I do? Do I except the corporate grab for power or do I through my banner under the ORC license. It’s even worse cus I have aspirations of one day starting my own company in TTRPG minis and accessories. In conclusion, cus this is long and I’m sorry, yes waiting is probably good but not too long though yeah?
@AllThingsLich
@AllThingsLich Жыл бұрын
in regards to minis and accessories - I assume 3d printing or you talking sculpting?
@reynaaiken4542
@reynaaiken4542 Жыл бұрын
when it comes to paizo and pathfinder they are alot more lax to these kind of technical things then D&D/Wizards were/are so I think you might be overworrying
@kyrnsword72
@kyrnsword72 Жыл бұрын
I'm greatful to Paizo for what they did to solidify D&D contents but their game charecters are as bad as tax forms. A year ago I picked up and been playing an ttrpg I love called D100 DUNGEON by Martin Knight! This game system has quick rules and charecter sheets like 4AD, DCC, D&D and Dungeon World all in 1 D100 Dungeon.
@seamusderby169
@seamusderby169 Жыл бұрын
I would honestly get in touch with Paizo but from what was said in their statement it sounded like pathfinder 2.0 would fall under this ORC license
@seamusderby169
@seamusderby169 Жыл бұрын
The other thing is I switched to pathfinder 1.0 in 2009 after 7 years playing D&D 3E and became the forever GM. I got invited to play 5E D&D as just a player. After the debacle with MTG printing unplayable cards and selling them for obscene prices and now this I don't trust Hasbro/WOTC to not pull these stunts
@GladeRiven
@GladeRiven Жыл бұрын
I'm checking out the Cypher system by Monte Cook, because his system is unrelated to WotC's OGL material, but I am also looking forward to the ORC. The downside is that I play on VVTs because I live in a small town and so far it doesn't look like it is on one. So I'd either have to use a systemless one or figure out how to code it into Fantasy Grounds (my VVT of choice) I'm a big fan of Pathfinder and Starfinder. Pathfinder 2 should be safe. Starfinder...I don't know, yet. We may get a Starfinder 2nd Edition, it may have a bit more WotC SRD content to excise. In the mean time, I'm going to work on building a couple of setting bibles (one fantasy, one scifi) and see how things play out. I might just make a systemless setting book and a free PDF to download for a system or three.
@underfire987
@underfire987 Жыл бұрын
Check out the OSR it's super easy tons if options
@RicardoPM777
@RicardoPM777 Жыл бұрын
I like paizo products much more than wotc products. I would never stop playing ttrpg because of the actions of any companny
@roguishowl3915
@roguishowl3915 Жыл бұрын
I believe in their statement that PF 2e never used the wotc OGL 1.0a. I was/I am scared because for the past year and a half, I’ve been creating my own world and gaming system. I will still continue to work on both until something is finalized. IF I feel that things are going to shit with any and all of the new Ogl’s I will just use it at my own table for my players.
@simmonslucas
@simmonslucas Жыл бұрын
I think everyone should vote for good companies with their cash. You should check out Shadow of the Demon Lord.
@lestervinghail5654
@lestervinghail5654 Жыл бұрын
Entrepreneurs and pioneers take risks, good little followers take what's given. What are you? WotC told you who they are....believe them. The license let's you make your own SRD for others to use and ORC will protect those SRD's. From my reading.
@AllThingsLich
@AllThingsLich Жыл бұрын
outstanding first sentence.
@ColdNapalm42
@ColdNapalm42 Жыл бұрын
Paizo has said that when they made 2E they used absolutely ZERO from the SRD and so the OGL wasn't even needed. They included that in so OTHER people can more easily make more content using that system. So when WotC tries to resend OGL 1.0a, Pathfinder 2E will just be sold under no license until the ORC comes out (or the OGL 1.0a irrevocability gets ruled in their favor). Pathfinder 1 however is tied VERY heavily to the OGL. So if the courts gets bought by Hasbro and they rule on OGL being revokable, Pathfinder 1 would no longer be something Paizo could sell anymore. Until 1.0a gets revoked, you will be safe to do what you wanted in 2E. IF it gets revoked before ORC comes into effect, there is an ABSOLUTE miniscule chance that Paizo could come after you. But unless all of the leadership at Paizo dies suddenly all at once and it gets bought by Hasbro...you are pretty much safe. CR is ABSOLUTELY in bed with WotC. Thier discord is censoring talk about the OGL. They came out with a nothing burger statement. Now, how much longer they will stay that way is up in the air. My hope is that they go back to Pathfinder. They started in Pathfinder after all. I would actually start to watch them if they did. As for what I am doing...I'm gonna continue to be a fan of Paizo. Continue to play their games. I dabbled in 5E when it released...but that player base REALLY made me not want to run games in that system for a LONG while before the OGL mess. I'm not happy with the tone of 6E to begin with as they try to be more player focused in play. Mechanically, I like most of the changes they made...but overall, not exciting for me. With this, it's a hard nope now for 6E...just like 4E. I'll still dabble in various other systems...VtM, Shadowrun, Heros, Champions, CoC and what not...but will mostly play and run Pathfinder 2E.
@AllThingsLich
@AllThingsLich Жыл бұрын
as someone that's played or run PF 2.0, how do you think it plays with a large group, as I run 9-10 players.
@frontline989
@frontline989 Жыл бұрын
Honestly as a creator I would wait to see what WOTC actually announces for the OGL before making any decisions. Even if they reverse course Im not saying to not still move away from them. Ive decided to but if my creative work was able to be supported on the most popular system by any means then I'd at least explore the options before making a decision. Im not a creator though so the decision is easy for me. WOTC is not a company I want to support at this time.
@AllThingsLich
@AllThingsLich Жыл бұрын
man, great points. I'm with you on both sides. I don't want to support them at this time but the creative work backed by the 800lb gorilla of TTRPGs can't be ignored.
@crapstirrer
@crapstirrer Жыл бұрын
Yeah. Whether or not the future OGL is reasonable, D&D will still be the biggest game in town. I wouldn't fault you for staying and tapping a larger fanbase.
@ColdNapalm42
@ColdNapalm42 Жыл бұрын
@@crapstirrer That may not always be the case. Pathfinder 1 was the biggest game in town during D&D 4E era...which incidentally did not have an OGL. So if they push for 6E to not have one as well...with clauses like we can revoke this license at any time for any reason or we can change the terms...even if they call it an OGL, I would not be surprised if Pathfinder becomes the biggest game in town AGAIN.
@jameskane3550
@jameskane3550 Жыл бұрын
You’re better off divorcing settings from any rules, but PF2E is a rewrite of the old SRD that Pathfinder was based on. That lets them believe they can move the existing 2E material to ORC. Remember that the OGL really just separates mechanics from protected IP to remove grey areas you may be sued over. It’s giving you fewer rights than you would have for a clean rewrite of the rules on your own such as saying you are “compatible with Dungeons and Dragons.”
@DiomedesRangue
@DiomedesRangue Жыл бұрын
I'd probably pick something that's creative commons instead. You never need to worry about anything, and you don't need to wait. Games like heroes against darkness. I'd assume they're going to launch a 3rd edition of Pathfinder with the ORC license. It's free PR/marketing, so it just makes business sense. It is a little close to the release date of 2e, though considering that it came out in 2019. I'm making my own game right now. It's going very well. This news hasn't changed my direction at all. Critical Role definitely appears to be in a contract with WotC. They definitely have a non disparagement clause in their contract. My group has been playing Dark Heresy 2e from the last year. It's a wonderful game. There are two sessions left in the campaign.
@AllThingsLich
@AllThingsLich Жыл бұрын
deathwatch and dark heresy. Good stuff. I've been there as well.
@jasons.2333
@jasons.2333 Жыл бұрын
I would check out Legal Eagle on this. He goes over the fact you can't copyright rules. You might be able to copyright some of the expressions such as "rolling initiative" or so... if that was exclusive one set of rules. But, in this case, saying "roll a d20 to see who goes first" would be totally Legal.
@jasons.2333
@jasons.2333 Жыл бұрын
Note: since rolling initiative isn't exclusive to any rule set this is just an example. Not a real problem.
@jasons.2333
@jasons.2333 Жыл бұрын
In addition, I'm hoping ORC tends to be just a Standard set of rules. Basically meaning you can create a very creative world and just use this set of rules to run the game
@1techdave
@1techdave Жыл бұрын
So if you don't mind allow me to throw my two cents worth in the hat, and yes two cents is probably being fairly generous to myself. So anyone who "controls" a license has the control at something they can change the rules. It certainly can be made more difficult to change but it can be. So if you are truly concerned, your only option is to create your own system so that YOU control the rules. With that said the thing with WoTc is not really what will happen going forward, because we know what will happen. 6 months from now, 6 years or 60 years we KNOW they will gouge us hard and fast they waited 20 years for it this time no reason they cant wait 20 more because they are a huge corp and the investors could give a sh*t about the game and upper management will always support the investor before the customers. So what will it all mean? This will not kill D&D we all of us "little" people have invested far far to much money to leave all those books collecting dust, and so long as they have the books why throw them out? Ask anyone who still hass AD&D and plays OSR. As a content creator however, I will never make something that watc can just take away fu*k that. What i can do is write and publish rules neutral content and then publish some sort of simple "conversion" guide and if the wanna steal that, they can take it and wipe their butts with it for all I care. Well, if you made it this far thanks for listening/reading i hope it helps and if not... wjat can i say lol.. well thank you for all you do and good luck with all of your future endeavors
@AllThingsLich
@AllThingsLich Жыл бұрын
of course I don't mind. Thank you for your input and yes, I made it all the way through your writing. Thanks again.
@yancke
@yancke Жыл бұрын
The reason ppl havent made more 3rd party pf2 is mostly to do with the 5e market share. Not that it isnt a good system. I actually prefer pf2. The monsters are way more interesting from a mechanical sense. And it is more complicated than 5e to some degree, but waaaaay more customisable RAW.
@twilightgardenspresentatio6384
@twilightgardenspresentatio6384 Жыл бұрын
Making my own system - fighting, negotiating, building, adventuring and crafting custom magic. “Systems Cascade” This has made me see there might be an opening for my system at the table. I just need playtesters now.
@user-eq8ww1gr6v
@user-eq8ww1gr6v Жыл бұрын
I'm buying PF2 books and an adventure path book for me and my adult child newer to the red hobby, also buying Avatar the last Airbender Legends as a rules light for them too as they and a few of there friends are avid fans
@lcronovt
@lcronovt Жыл бұрын
My problem with ORC is that Paizo was part of the Crusade of "Orcs are black people". I won't be celebrating yet, until I see the draft.
@VMSelvaggio
@VMSelvaggio Жыл бұрын
The statement Critical Role issued on Twitter literally said very little, despite being about 3 paragraphs, but reading between the lines, it read like they were contractually obligated to not besmirch the character of WotC, but you could feel the big middle finger they were pointedly aiming at WotC with the statement, by saying they have "always supported the creative community."
@AllThingsLich
@AllThingsLich Жыл бұрын
interesting..The burning bridges bit considering contract obligations, etc., makes sense.
@oldmanshreda
@oldmanshreda Жыл бұрын
I personally would slow down and take a beat if I were in your shoes. Blog posts and interviews mean nothing until an actual legal document is released. I am not accusing anyone of anything. I am just saying that this is your business, and you have to protect that from worst case scenarios that could negatively impact that business. Once this ORC is released, see what companies legally sign on to it and then choose the rules system to implement for your own creation based on 'known' risks instead of hoping and having the rug pulled when the document is not what you expected or doesn't appear at all.
@IGDNews
@IGDNews Жыл бұрын
With PF1e no with PF2e Yes. Piazo is not releasing a 3.0 their 2.0 system dose not rely on OGL. 2.0 will be released under the new ORC. No shouldn't wait. You can always put your stuff later.
@MrSpankyxiv
@MrSpankyxiv Жыл бұрын
You didn't build that. Jokes aside... I'd love to see some sort of system and ORC that is designed to easily swap in and out the system rules. Say 90% shared work 10% differences. Would save a lot of time and trouble and spread out the benifit of 3rd party work... whoch would then become 1st party work.🤔
@anthonywalker6268
@anthonywalker6268 Жыл бұрын
It'll probably be like GNU.
@user-eq8ww1gr6v
@user-eq8ww1gr6v Жыл бұрын
Also skipping their movie, Baldur's Gate 3, and cancelled DnD Beyond.
@windmark8040
@windmark8040 Жыл бұрын
D&D isn't going away, obviously. This mess has affected people different ways. If you're a 3rd party creator, I think it feels more personal. And that's why we see the extreme reactions. Other 3rd party creators are waiting to see what Wizards comes up with. 5e is too big of a cash cow to just walk away from. If you're a GM/Player/Consumer, I think the only way it will affect you is that the amount of 3rd party content to choose from will be much, much less (at least initially), if we are to believe what we are seeing now. IMO 3rd party content was MUCH better than what WotC was producing. If your favorite 3rd party company is cutting ties with WotC, then you may want to follow their lead. It's going to take some time to see how things shake out. Folks will look for their 5e fix elsewhere. Some may discover other games, while others will go back into the D&D fold. Some may leave the hobby altogether.
@ChristianIce
@ChristianIce Жыл бұрын
It will be interesting to see, because D&D is not MTG. Sure you can trap people in your monopoly with MTGA, but when it comes to D&D the heavier actors are 3rd party publishers and, let's not forget, Dungeon Masters. Maybe 5 kids will know D&D from a movie, butwhen they look up for a DM to paly, if that DM will say "yeah, we are going to play PF", they will play Pathfinder anyway :)
@AllThingsLich
@AllThingsLich Жыл бұрын
agree completely that 3rd party was the better part of D&D. For example, Tome of Beasts and Creature Codex (Kobold Press) blow the Monster Manual out of the water.
@ColdNapalm42
@ColdNapalm42 Жыл бұрын
You are right in that D&D isn't going away. However it could very well no longer be the biggest game in town. Paizo took that from WotC during 4E...partially due to not a great system and partially due to WotC not having that system under an OGL which meant VERY little 3rd party support. 6E seems like it will have a fairly solid system compared to 4E...but with them trying to revoke the OGL, they may have a bigger backlash from that problem this time around. And with what Paizo just did for ALL of the TTRPG community, IF the revised OGL that WotC finally releases isn't basically 1.0a with the clause irrevocable added in, I can see them no longer being the biggest game in town yet again.
@InquisitorNocturne1
@InquisitorNocturne1 Жыл бұрын
I still play 1st edition
@switters8679
@switters8679 Жыл бұрын
It seems as if you are very not the person to give any advice whatsoever. Your misinterpretation and misrepresentation of what has happened is laughably ignorant. It is better to be thought a fool then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
@AllThingsLich
@AllThingsLich Жыл бұрын
sorry. moving forward and forever on, I will open my mouth whenever I feel like it. Understood and respect that this channel and my words aren't for you.
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