"In the United States today, there is a pervasive tendency to treat children as adults, and adults as children. The options of children are thus steadily expanded, while those of adults are progressively constricted. The result is unruly children and childish adults." ~Thomas Szasz

I would LOVE to see Josh and Kellie-Jay Keen on Disaffected together! Please make it happen

I was born in 1954 and started kindergarten in 1959. I saw the turmoil of the sixties, and understood that racism and sexism - putting people in boxes and judging them not according to their actual individual natures, but by their group membership - was wrong. But I was a thoughtful, analytical little girl, and in my opinion the *methods* proposed to right the wrongs were mostly wrong - they employed coercive methods not only where they were appropriate, but also where they were not. It looked to me that the adults in charge did not know where the lines were that mustn't be crossed if they didn't want to set up a destructive principle that could take us down an irrational and anti-liberty road. We're well down that road, now. It seems to be the way of the world that efforts to solve real social problems and injustices get commandeered by people who have an objectivity impairment and a knack for short-sighted solutions. Today they have topped that off by embracing Post-modern contempt for objective thinking methods, outright. It has trickled down from university departments into the culture. It gives every immature mind the seal of approval to proceed on an irrational course with social approval and no shame. In fact, it aims to shame anyone who conscientiously tries to examine an issue with care. I was good at thinking objectively, thinking up alternative viewpoints, finding questions, and taking my time - thinking critically - from an unusually young age. I have often wondered if the methods my parents and maternal grandparents used to nurture me from the beginning would make a difference in the speed with which other children reach the age of reason, and would thus become less vulnerable to crippling indoctrination? Whatever the case, I am so grateful for people like Benjamin and Josh who strive to find the nuanced truth, and who are actively thinking and searching for answers in a public forum. Thank you, guys.

I absolutely agree with everything you say Josh. Thank you for fighting so hard to protect children. I pray for you a lot after I hear how difficult your childhood was.

Josh Slocum and Benjamin Boyce are both excellent.

Josh's attention to distinguishing words for clarity is what is missing in our discourse. I love him for having the courage to call out the pejoratives as being gratuitous.

It is such a pleasure to listen to good discourse. Thanks to both of you!

Josh is amazing, so glad to see him here !

Josh’s thesis - that the world mirrors a domestic violence situation - is even more poignant now. He says that children are the primary victims of gender ideology, and they are. In abusive homes, there is usually a dynamic where one parent is aggressive, the other is an enabler, and the kids get the figurative shrapnel. The cowardice of the enabler parent, their refusal to get up and leave, condemns their children to a disordered home. Most adults are cowards. Most adults in this society are enabler parents. We have collectively permitted the truly disordered to boss us around. Our inability to stand up (and do stuff like Josh and Ben or Maya Forstater) makes us complicit in the abuse of these children.

I’m watching and thinking, “wow, Josh is spot on”. Then it just continued. Wholly shit, he brought up the matriarchy, that one area that is one hundred percent correct, but no one will ever mention it. Josh hit it out of the park, again and again and again. And as usual, Benjamin asks just the right questions. Brilliant guys, just brilliant.

Thank you for bringing Josh back. He's not only right, he is a fantastic personality.

Josh is hilariously based for being a gay man, you two together are quite a duo!

We also can't get a tattoo under the influence. Tattoo artists can not assume consent even from an adult if they are not of sound mind to do body mods. But it's ok to modify a child or a mentally ill adult whos acutely suffering.

Saw "cluster B" and knew it had to be Josh. Great interviews lately, Benjamin. Keep up the good work!

Benjamin and Josh... This is a BRILLIANT calmversation! Josh is INCREDIBLY articulate, well spoken and 100% considerate of not only what he says, but the words he chooses to express them. Furthermore, Benjamin's focus upon what Josh is saying and the posing of questions, shows that he is following precisely with the topic at hand and in tune with the gravity of what is being discussed. This is a PHENOMENAL interaction and am not yet 25 min in. ... continue, gentlemen!

I'm so shocked to hear the audience reaction to the autogynephile conversation was negative because I thought he was extremely self-aware, well-reasoned and well-researched! We need more men like him to speak up!

I think part of the issue with autogynophylia is how it's manifesting in "Instagram culture" or "influencer culture", and that's why those men aren't "doing it in thier bedroom". I think everyone is so chronically online almost no one is confining anything that should be private to private spaces. Parasocial relationships have so usurped real ones, we can't seem to appropriately interact with each other at all.

I love disaffected. So underrated.

Thank you for this intelligent, thought provoking discussion.

Josh is on point and has cut through the crap on so many issues.

Josh is such a breath of fresh air.

Benny B & Lil' Jay Slo are the greatest duo!

There is certainly a semester's worth of content here. No, seriously. Let's build a curriculum.

Flat out one of your best "calmversations!" 🙏

If government and teachers can support and legally enforce a child's decisions, against the will of parents, then parentage is under attack.

The two of you make for a great conversation! Thank you. I'm a 67 yo gay man. I could have turned out straight, under different circumstances, I can see that now. Contributors to becoming gay: 1) Youngest male in an all male family (All the guy spots were taken, the girl spots were glaringly vacant) 2) Androgynous adolescence with a very late, rapid puberty (a friend grew a heavy, heavy beard years before my voice plummeted; no adult providing any insight into what was going on) 3) Family tragedy, at 7, requiring offering emotional support to my mom (beyond my years) And, at the same time, Catholic elementary school beginning, with emotional abuse (nuns)) I agree with Josh, there are genetic predispositions (I'm a naturally sensitive guy) but factors growing up play a huge role. I think we (gay men and women) are in a very good position to recognize the insanity of what's being fed to children (and young adults) and what's being done to them. We must speak out.

Thank you josh and ben.

1:21:15 Aside from growing up in a broken home, this is my mom to a T. It's only tangentially related to the overall topic but it's great seeing someone else talk about emotional abuse on the part of mothers. We *automatically* shift to thinking they're beleaguered angels when they're just regular people like you or me.

Much respect for Benjamin and Josh, willing to take a deep look into these topics with respect and clarity. I subscribe to and listen to both regularly. Benjamin, I love the 'Calmversations'. Josh, I wish you well on your coverage of the 'highway to hell'. - Just an ordinary, politically homeless, woman in the CA Bay Area working through bafflement.

I love Josh’s podcast! Can’t wait to watch this later

Pedro Almodovar would be a great interview. All About My Mother is one of my favorite films

Wow. This whole convo. Such much I’d weigh in on. Big thumbs up to both men in this pod cast

Damn. This man is on the war path. 😊 Showing the power of righteous fury. Much respect from Denmark. ❤

"Goodness that comes out of hiding and assumes a public role is no longer good, but corrupt in its own terms and will carry its own corruption wherever it goes." ~ Hannah Arendt "The evil that is in the world always comes of ignorance, and good intentions may do as much harm as malevolence, if they lack understanding." ~Albert Camus

It's great that Josh so clearly points out the misuse of the terms "homophobia" and "misogyny." The misuse of "misogyny" has been bothering me for years.

Intelligent, insightful, informative.

I’m glad he cleared that up because I do believe in parental rights but I like parental responsibility better.

SO EXITED TO SEE JOSH ON HERE!!!

Fascinating conversation. Thank you guys.

Wow!!! This is a great convo. I agree with this guy. I'll have to start following.

This was a fascinating conversation. I have to listen again to process it all. Thank you!!

Best of luck, Josh. Don't let the B*****ds grind you down.

Thank you, as a mom of 2 young teens I needed this conversation.

"We are at war with the truth." Yes.

By definition and by biology (cognitive development), children are not of sound mind and therefore cannot engage in contractual agreements.

Josh has changed quite a bit. I hope the best for him. I'm also struggling

Thank you! Two of my favorite men!

Great episode. Thanks for a great Convo, fellas.

OMG I can't wait to watch this!!!!

I am so excited, I love and follow both of you guys!! ☺

Josh, you understand disordered women better than anyone. Disaffected is the reason why I am tired on Monday mornings, it drops at 2am in Scotland!

Wow. This is the best talk I’ve heard on this channel. Not saying it’s THE best, but it’s the best that I’VE heard. Thank you Benjamin and Josh. Vital work for our survival as a culture.

It's always a treat to see Josh; glad this popped up on my list.

This was such a great episode. I really like Josh and his knowledge and is wide vocabulary. I always learn so much about what's going on. I got myself out of "the cult" in 2017, but I knew something was going on about 5 years earlier right around gamergate and what happened in the New Atheist Movement. I'm glad much smarter people than myself could describe it and had names for it. Now, I take much of the attitude of Josh, I do not care to try to persuade folks from leaving "the cult" because it's futile. They won't stop. Now it's about stopping them legally. Chris Rufo and James Lindsay and Wokal Distance, Soverign Nations, etc are on the path. Thank you so much for this conversation!

Josh has higher T levels than most STRAIGHT western men, and that tells you all you need to know. I love his No BS attitude, bravo Ben and Josh, what a great discussion. P.S. If Josh ran for President, he has my vote! 🎉🎉🎉

"Only the Sovereign can say..." "The N-word?" 🤣

Sometimes the first time people hear something you get a knee jerk reaction. I really enjoyed the Autogynophila guy, especially when he said he'd never heard of it and it felt gate kept. It's also a very interesting issue, because it's one that women can't actually experience or understand in the same way. But my experience of men with lets say 'sexuality they're struggling to understand' is that they don't generally talk about it, ask for help or necessarily come to terms with it in a healthy way. So it's probably very important, when we are seeing kind of a crossover with trans and predatory behaviours (socially)

One of my favorite guests. Good Calmvo.

Cluster B is the most important topic that most people are not talking about.

Love it! Haven't even started and liked it already 😍

Excellent exploration of the topics and spoken truths!!

great to see both of you together

Another really interesting conversation!

40:44 I’m Catholic and consider myself somewhat conservative and I feel that way. I am also a former leftie. I know what it’s like on both sides. Much love to both you Josh and Benjamin 💙💙 y’all are doing Gods work out here.

That was a very packed two hours. Very interesting! The time flew by~

Amazing convo. I had a similar trajectory to Josh wrt politics (straight chick though) up until a few years ago when I got out of rehab and quit watching media/politics for a year. It’s like I detoxed from more than just alcohol. Sidenote, you both look amazing! Benjamin, I’ve been watching you for a few years now, and I totally assumed you were much younger than me. I’m 48. I don’t comment much, but I really enjoy your work.

It is a hysteria accompanying this posited moral imperative that keeps people from seeing that we, as a society, based on collective human understanding and science, have decided that children and adolescents do not have the capacity to make profound, life altering decisions while looking into the future. It is the hysteria that keeps people from thinking about all the laws around protecting children and parents obligations to protect them.

Josh always hits the nail on the head

I think the problem with the previous interview about AGP is that you named the interview 'Autogynephilia: The Sexual Orientation Fueling Transition'. I would argue that if you don't want to gaslight anyone, then claiming that a paraphilia is a sexual orientation, by naming it as such, as if that is just what it is and something anyone would agree on , well that would make a lot of people unwilling to listen to very much of it before spewing snakes and frogs. I do think that it is important to understand paraphilias, but not by rebranding them sexual orientations. Language is important because we need it to be able to describe reality accurately. Corruption of language is the number one weapon of the silver-tongued devil, as it renders us incapable of describing reality correctly. This has been true of all times. Great interview. Josh is a clever sweetheart.

Josh is a very compelling guest.

I loved the end of this convo. I listen to Josh and Benjamin both separately. I watched the autogynophilia video. It was so hard to watch. I wonder if the guy’s autism and childhood issues were the real problem. His sudden understanding of his attraction came from a drug experience. I am wondering if other autogyophiliacs would relate. Sounded miserable.

Listened to this on my podcast catcher. Had to drop by here to say, this was a great conversation.

I think the reason women are more into jumping into the phobia business is because they are more empathetic, also same driver as social contagions and hysterias, potentially a biological urge to look out for offspring

Thanks!

This is such a joy listening to! 🙂🙂🙂🤗🤗🤗⭐️⭐️⭐️ Much love from Norway.

Sorry to hear about the comments on your previous interview with Phil Illy. I had the opposite reaction, felt like I may be a little more open-minded after listening. Other viewers felt that way, too. I feel like you're right about this group of vulnerable males, Benjamin.

gosh i love how you both adore kellie-jay keen

Such an amazing conversation! I would have been happy if it had been twice as long. I too have a crush on KJK 😝

Thank you for airing these thoughts out, Josh. The point about human instrumentalization (avatars) is very important. You need systemic controls and protocols in place to keep these things from emerging. The way "education is political" because political decision-making results in public education was confused with "we will politically indoctrinate your young to further our goals" was a key gateway in the longer process of pedagogical corruption. And it was a disingenuous language trick that got pulled, ultimately leading into this. This pot of excrement took a long time to brew. You're right it's not easy to see what's so wrong with all of it while you're in the middle of the cult. Anyone reasonable enough that they can be lead down a path where they face things they would normally find deeply unethical is still likely to be very resistant to admitting to it. They have to process things over time themselves and you can't help them, until they have a personal motivation to reconsider things. Listening carefully from the sidelines and making critical observations is powerful.

2:05:29 so nice to hear someone use “flout” correctly. I’ve always been a bit of a word/grammar nazi. One of my big pet peeves is misuse of “flaunt” and “flout.” Another is when people get “for all intents and purposes” wrong. It’s as though most people don’t even pay the slightest conscious attention to the language they use on a daily basis. Oh yeah, most people are neurotypical. That’s exactly what they do.

A live stream with Ben and Josh with chat questions would be fantastic, always interesting and challenging.

As a regular viewer of Benjamin and Joshua, this was an enjoyable discussion; even though I was familiar with the canvas, it's impossible to anticipate the strokes. Is there a strongman in the room?!

This was very powerful.

Josh-Wow. I didn't know about him. Thanks for this. BTW great hair both of you!

Slocum is loosy goosy with his quick conclusions at times, but his desire for truth shown in his epistemic humility and genuine compassion for EVERYONE even when being rude is so refreshing. he’s the kind of person i’d want in my inner circle. totally trust him. so eventhough i don’t always agree i know it’s not because he’s lacking in integrity. i really love this guy. (i’m not gay. :)

2:02:45 - What a great point this is. And there was even a "huh" moment from Benjamin.

Full circle classic. I would have gone with Olivia Newton John n spandex. Come on josh u love it really.

Josh rocks. I'm 3 minutes in and laughing. Keep it up, gents. Get James Lindsay on the next one of these - you three would have a blast.

Vermont said "hold my beer" eh?

AAAAAAAAAHHHH AAAAAAHHH DISAFFECTED BROS LETS GOOOOOOOOO

I am pleased as punch at this moment!

I am also a huge KJK fan girl. This was a great interview. This mistaking sexism for misogyny has been infuriating frankly.

Yes it feels like war, you’re right.

Benjamin's openings can elude his guests, but Joshua is so perceptive and acutely integrated that he didn't miss a beat. Okay, that's my review of the first 4 minutes.

Wow Josh is great, I've never heard of him before.

Wow! I thought this trans poster indoctrination only happened in my local school district!!! I work in one of these indoctrination camps and am furious every time I go into work!! Why are we adults allowing this to happen? Why, why?

You two gentleman are spectacular together. This is PERFEXON. THANK YOU FOREVER💗🙏🫀🙏💗🙏🫀🙏💗

Except that mommy‘s not that involved anymore in kid‘s education. So the core family consists on paper but not as a functioning wholesome system anymore. But there are way more women in daycare. So kids tend to grow up with women, yes. Many kids, from the toddler age to about 14/15 in my country spend more time with strangers as replacement of mom as primary caretakers. There‘s no time and room for the important early bonding anymore. I wished the mom‘s would stay home w the kid until school age. I know, an unpopular wish I have, but I‘m very convinced that the time from birth to the age of +/- 5 is essential for development and mom‘s role shouldn‘t be outsourced. Then from school age I think it‘s ok to not be around the kid constantly as mom or parents, but having some regular time together stays important throughout childhood and puberty. For guys the dad should guide, for the girls the mom and if the parents are still together, both parents should take part in education, just sex specific time seems important to me to found a good stable identity for early adulthood, for the challenges through puberty, the changes coming with it. I agree on many points this guest brought up. Coming to different conclusions from some, but good points that are rarely discussed this way, so thanks! Good questions too;)

I love nuanced controversy. 👍😆

Love this conversation. I would push back as a gay man myself that mothers actions create male homosexuals. I know enough gay men for whom this could be true. But I know enough gay men for whom this does not fit. Myself included. This could all be part of a broader conversation that I’ve always wanted to have about the two broad categories of gay male “types”. The more typical gay male stereotypes. And the type of male who prefers same sex relations - but is very atypical to the “gay” world. I’ve observed various mom son relations across all realms of gay men I’ve known- and it is a factor. But not the only one. I would say that my observation has been that gay men with volatile relationships with their moms do tend to fall into a certain corner of the gay. --