When you get to 1945, one of the more unusual "types of action" that you should cover is Operation Starvation, which was the deployment of aerial mines around the home islands of Japan by B-29 bombers. Post-war analysis rated it as one of the most cost-effective methods of destroying the ability of Japan to continue to fight the war. Wikipedia states that the costs were 15 aircraft lost by the USA, and 670 Japanese ships sunk or damaged, totaling 1,250,000+ tons. As the pre-war Japanese merchant fleet was stated to be "over 6,000,000 tons" in this video, that would be about 20% of the pre-war fleet put out of service by aerial mines.

You people should change your name. It's troublesome to find your channel.

I am an armchair historian for ww2 war which gives us all the information and technologies.... I am so excited to hear some new news I never knew of the Dutch submarines in battle....

The neglect of logistics in favour of building offensive assets (hence the emphasis on building aircraft carriers, various torpedo-armed subcapital warships, and up until December 1941 battleships) was the crippling weakness of the IJN. They had a lot of warships, many of which were actually quite capable, but not the reserves of fuel, manpower, or spare parts for them.

if you accept the strategic premises that the ijn was operating under, much of their actions start to make some sense. However, those premises (that they wouldn't be dragged into a protracted total war, for instance) are obviously faulty in retrospect.

Remember, the Japanese had NEVER suffered from economic war, never a blockade, no naval raiders doing big damage, nor submarine attack. To them these things were more theoretical, they did not feel it in their gut - but the decisive battles, THAT they had done. -The Sino-Japanese War and the invasion of Taiwan (1894-1895) no raiders, no blockade, but had the decisive Battle of the Yalu River (1894) which Japan won. -The Boxer Rebellion 1900 expedition had no Chinese naval element vs the Japanese. -The series of struggles to conquer Korea 1905-1909 had no naval element. -The Russo-Japanese War (1904-1905) Japan suffered no raiders, no blockade. But the Naval battles, that they did. -WWI (1914-1915) there were a few German raiders with no effect economically, the German fleet went to south America, so no blockade. The Japanese escorts in the Med were pretty much politically sidelined. -China War (1937-1941) again no naval element. . So it was only WWII, and then only the last 2 years that Japan suffered from submarines and mine blockades. There is a reason that the Japanese Navy had not taken economic warfare seriously.

Excellent book!

@@GaldirEonai That's what Yamamoto said. However, the idea of quickly forcing a decisively devastating battle was a fantasy. The very concept ignores the fact that America could quite viably avoid a large scale battle until they built up the strength to be over powering, as well as the different economic/political situation on America vs Russia. Add to that the fact that Pearl Harbor just p!$$ed of Americans so much that surrender wasn't necessary even if they lost at Midway. Hoping the enemy will think and do as you want is a losing game.

Unlike the British however in WW1 they never faced an existential crisis due to a U-boat campaign. The UK did. As a result the RN made submarine warfare and convoy protection a priority the moment the war started in 1939, in addition to major fleet actions. So who knows, if Japan had suffered almost starvation from sub warfare in WW1, it might have resulted in an actual and credible ASW force in 1941. Then again, the US Air Force forgot everything about dogfighting that had made its fighters so successful in WW2 and Korea, as their new air to air missiles would make dogfights obsolete. A lesson that took years to relearn in Vietnam. Past experience may mean very little when a glorious new doctrine looks shiny.

@@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623 In between wars the UK did not expend much thought on the matter. Everybody knew war was coming, Germany had subs, and they could remember WWI. But they let the subject decay. It took a long time to organize convoys and set up escorts. From my reading it was only a couple of career officers who kept up study on ASW.

@@recoil53 It may have taken the Brits time to sort the system out again, but they did organize the first convoys the moment war with Germany was declared. That means they took the problem serious based on past experience. Japan never took it serious because they had no real past experience with it, being on the receiving end of a submarine war.

@@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623 They took the problem seriously based on then present (WWII) experience. They did not immediately mandate defensive tactics. OTOH the Japanese seemed to have never learned.

This is enlightening, as I was not aware of this fact.War is a learning experience, if only we could a avoid such lessons.

I didn’t even know the Dutch had submarines 😮

@@macleunin Look up Conrad "Ship a Day" Helfrich if you want to know more about the overlooked Dutch effort in the Pacific.

@@macleunin We sure had, probably their most famous captain was 'Piet de Jong' who in the may days of 1940 would escape to the UK with the submarine HNLMS O 24 which was actually not yet finished. From september 1940 until July 1942 it patrolled under command of 'de Jong' the waters in the north sea and near Gibraltar, then transferred to the Indian ocean. After the Japanese surrender the O 24 with it's now commander 'Piet de Jong' returned to the Netherlands in 1946. After the war he would serve several functions in politics, like minister of defence and finally prime minister from 1967 until 1971. He would pass away at the age of 101 years in 2016.

I wasn’t aware of the Dutch impact in the Pacific War. The story always gets told as them getting beat and just rolling over for the rest of the war. I definitely need to read up on them if that wasn’t the case

Yes, it is a shame the British and Dutch Submarines were not even mentioned in passing. The concentration on USA and Japanese struggle is simpler, and easier to write, but i was hoping for at least a mention.

I don't doubt what you say, but why would stuff still remain classified Secret eighty years later? Ultra is well known. The technical aspects of the Gatos, Balaos, and Tench class boats are all well known (and the few survivors are all corroded out museum hulks now) as well as the faults of the Mk XIV. The magnetic influence exploder didn't work (but something similar in results does now) so what could be left?

@@stearman456 I don’t know alls I know there is tons of stuff of US Submarine operations that is still top secret

@@stearman456 Simple, the pacific strategy used in WW2 is still viable today “Cough” China “cough”

Much more, yes. HYPO knew location of minefields and all Japanese vessels. Wolfpacks were organized with lead communicating with HYPO through super-secret American code to happy hunting grounds. New passive sonar was installed on lead for minefield maneuvering. Read the sinking of SS Sculpin (a lead sub) to understand how Capt John Cromwell saved the entire program.

Indeed he does. 'Failure is like an Onion' is the video title IIRC.

I still don’t get why Admiral King didn’t send Admiral Lee to use the Bureau of Ordnance for target practice.

I’ve seen that video. There’s lots of good info in his vid.

Link to Drach's excellent video on the Mk 14: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/m7dlhdhov9vDYX0.html I strongly recommend it to anyone who has watched this video.

@@gleisbauer25 God, the ego to say - during WWII - that his pet project was fine, it's everybody else that was wrong. Send him to be the Naval Liason in Moscow.

Agreed, and good special. It is interesting how some aspects of history sort of fade from popular memory while others occupy a more prominent position, and often the determining factor is not the historical impact. The U-boat war in the Atlantic versus the submarine war in the Pacific an example of that, with the latter being nearly forgotten despite concluding as the most successful submarine campaign in human history, while the U-boats ultimately lost in the Battle of the Atlantic.

Quite rare for this channel too that it focuses on something in Asia. It's again very Europe centered, I was hoping they'd tell equally about both theaters..

@@demi3115 I’m sure that come mid-1944 we’re gonna hear alot more from the far east Wink wink 😉

I wish that King rant was recorded.

I agree,especially since the rumor about Adm. King "shaved with a blowtorch"!

Based on Drachinifel's description of King in his video on the Admiral. Door opens. Board members look up to see King flanked by a pair of sub commanders. Chairman of BoA begins choking. King "You have failed me for the last time."

@@jmullner76 That rant would have likely reduced the recording device to slag.

"King was the most even-tempered man in the navy. He was _always_ angry."

There are many of such pieces of the struggle that are not in the spotlight. Another example: the tonnage war in the Mediterranean against the Axis, mainly Italy.

Coastal Command were stationed in the USA to protect NYC Harbor.

From a fellow submariner, thank you for your service. Thank you for your continued support to our channel.

@@WorldWarTwo Fellow submariner? U.S. or Swede?

Bureaucrats are always the bane of any organization.

@@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623 That’s true, but no large organization can function without bureaucrats.

@@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623 Especially when they're defending their own pet projects.

@@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623 the magnetic detonator was Christie's pet project and his dreamed Wunderwaffe - that's why he was so ludicrously against any testing and was ready to give any possible explanation why things were not working as intended rather than accepting the possibility that perhaps his brainchild wasn't as great as he had thought it was.

Dude you need to stick to playing American 🏈 football!!!

Not only is it an in-depth study of the MK 14, but pretty darn humorous also. Glad to see another Drach fan.

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/m7dlhdhov9vDYX0.html

@@williamharvey8895 His Voyage of the Damned videos are absolutely fantastic. I like to imagine that one day someone will use it as a film script.

Could you go into detail? I never heard of this story. Also did you know that the crew of the USS Barb landed in Japan, they blew up a railroad bridge making them the only Sub crew to do a mission on land.

If you want an underrated side of the naval fight, read about Operation Starvation, the mining of Japan's waterways by air.

USS Archerfish sank the most tonnage of any U.S. submarine during WW2, almost twice of what the Barb managed to sink and it was only 1 ship, the IJN Shinano. Although I do love the stories from the Barb, that crew must have been genuinely insane!

@@AlexPeace246 me too the Barb was the first Sub to launch rockets at the enemy.

@@JohnJohn-pe5kr Sure, to start the Awa Maru went from Japan to Singapore to offload the treasure (be that Yamashita’s gold, Peking Man, or other treasure that Japan had looted throughout the war in the Pacific). The ship was sailing under the Red Cross as a relief ship supposedly carrying aid for Allied POWs in 1945. Having delivered her supplies, Awa Maru took on several hundred stranded merchant marine officers, military personnel, diplomats and civilians at Singapore. In addition, there were stories that the ship carried treasure worth approximately US$5 billion: 40 metric tons of gold, 12 metric tons of platinum (valued at about $58 million), and 150,000 carats (30 kg) of diamonds and other strategic materials. Less dramatic and more credible sources identify the likely cargo as nickel and rubber. The ship was observed in Singapore being loaded with a cargo of rice in sacks; however, that evening the docks were reportedly cleared and troops were brought in to first unload the rice and then re-load her with contraband.Her voyage also corresponded with the last possible location of the fossil remains of Peking Man, which were in Singapore at the time and were, on their own, priceless in value. There are various theories regarding the disappearance of a number of Peking Man fossils during World War II; one such theory is that the bones sank with the Awa Maru in 1945. The ship departed Singapore on March 28, but on April 1 was intercepted late at night in the Taiwan Strait by the American submarine USS Queenfish (SS-393), which mistook her for a destroyer. The commanding officer of the Queenfish, Commander Charles Elliott Loughlin was ordered by Admiral Ernest King to an immediate general court-martial. As the Awa Maru sank "she was carrying a cargo of rubber, lead, tin, and sugar. Seventeen hundred merchant seamen and 80 first-class passengers, all survivors of ship sinkings, were being transported from Singapore to Japan.…[The] survivor said no Red Cross supplies were aboard, they having been previously unloaded." In 1980, the People's Republic of China launched one of the biggest salvage efforts on a single ship in history. They had successfully located and identified the wreck site in 1977 and were convinced that the vessel was carrying billions in gold and jewels. After approximately 5 years and $100 million spent on the effort, the search was finally called off. No treasure was found. However, several personal artifacts were returned to Japan. In the aftermath of the salvage attempt, the NSA scoured thousands of intercepted communications to determine what exactly happened to the treasure. From the communications, they determined that the treasure was not to be taken back to Japan. It was to be sent from Japan to Singapore where it would then be delivered to Thailand. The gold was successfully delivered and the Awa Maru was reloaded with a cargo of tin and rubber for the return trip to Japan. In June 2021 the NSA files from 1981 were declassified giving a detailed report: media.defense.gov/2021/Jun/30/2002752859/-1/-1/0/SINKINGAWA%20MARU.PDF Most of my information came from Wikipedia and this report. Hope you enjoyed!

On eternal patrol

The decisive battle doctrine also fails to take into account the US replacement ability. They knew America would ramp up ship production after Pearl Harbor, but I think they vastly underestimated by how much. Until that point no country ever had the resources and manpower to turn around damaged ships so fast, while continuing to build an entirely new fleet on top of it.

This is “ a military always fights the last war” . The Japanese defeated Russia in that way and expected it to happen with the US. No one apparently in the Japanese military establishment had studied the US civil war. It’s pretty much a blue print for what the US did to Japan.

Im a Drach fan too. Can you recommend the video where he goes into this?

Based more on "The Enemy Below" (Mitchum and Jürgens), isn't it? "The 1966 _Star Trek_ episode "Balance of Terror" is closely based on the film, with the USS _Enterprise_ cast as the destroyer and the Romulan vessel, using a cloaking device, as the U-boat.[8]" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Enemy_Below

The 2 series of 'The Silent Service' are here on KZfaq. There are about 60 episodes in all. Great stuff fronted by Rear Admiral Thomas Dykers (Retired). He commanded the USS Jack in WW2 and sank 8 Japanese ships. He knows his stuff!

Hence the post-war "Victory At Sea" series as well.

“Bordered?” The actual murder of officers in the other service was not unknown.

Yes, but for safety reasons it would have to be two episodes, ideally well separated from each other.;

Hi Kenneth, thank you very much for watching! Glad you enjoyed the episode, and thank you for sharing your thoughts with the community.

That, and the effects of Great Depression.

That argument sounds a bit forced. I doubt anyone is arguing the explosive on the torpedo is not viable, they are arguing that the torpedo sensors do not trigger the explosive. So replace the explosive with a recording device ( it’s the 1940s so paper tapes pens electric motors ) recording the output of the sensors. Rerun test as often as necessary with the test torpedo. If the contact fuse has to be replaced on some tests the US can afford it.

Thank you for your input. We are glad you enjoyed our content

@@francesconicoletti2547 The problem is that Mk.14 is developed during the Great Depression. And that mentality that they "don't have money" stayed until the late stages of WW2.

Wow, that's very nice to hear. Thanks! I really enjoyed doing the research for this one too, to be honest. It's a bit off the beaten path in terms of subjects I cover. I proudly accept your five star assessment!

Part of the reason why the U-boat campaign occupies a much more prominent position in popular memory than the Allied submarine campaign in the Pacific, despite the latter being far more successful, is that Allied government and military authorities often concealed the successes of their submarines from the press for OPSEC reasons. Of course there was no similar concern about the successes of U-boats, which were reported on extensively by the Allied press.

Partially it’s because it’s not true that the victor writes the history, it’s often the one who has the most to hide. Many surviving German generals wrote autobiographies after the war showing how awesome they were and as the world had moved on to another war it wasn’t in many people’s interest to disagree with them. It shows like these and the fresh research they are based on that stand a chance to pierce the fantasy.

Didn't they develop those for close air support during island landings? I remember reading about how they'd run big lines of them across islands hosing down Japanese defenses from the rear, or strafing airfields and taking out huge amounts of planes and supplies at a time. Either way, it's a very effective anti-ship weapon too assuming they don't have much in the way of AA like most merchant ships.

@@Raskolnikov70 They up gunned some of the Marine and Navy version of B-25s to have sixteen 50 cal machine guns (PBJ-1J) or a 75 mm cannon (PBJ-1H).

@@DeTiro144 That sounds like the version I read about. It was in a book about the island hopping campaign, and they were describing the pre-landing strikes they used against Japanese positions. Their tactic was to repeatedly strafe their airfields and positions with those airplanes to the point that it cleared forests just from the heavy volume of fire. Sixteen Ma Deuces per pass sounds about right.

Listening to twilight of the gods rn

Be interesting to know what torpedoes were used. I understand British torpedoes worked well. Where would the Dutch get theirs from?

@@GaldirEonai Heck, USS Barb managed to commandeer the only remaining Mk 51 rocket launcher in all of Hawaii for her final war patrol.

@@hourlardnsaver362 The story of the USS Barb after Eugene B. Fluckey, MOH took over is a very good story. Might have to listen to Thunder below again now ^^

The old man on my boat preferred to read award citations from the war when ya got your fish.

Also a series of novels, starting with "Run Silent, Run Deep".

Not the UK, USA, SU, Germany or Japan so they don't care.

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/m7dlhdhov9vDYX0.html

Thank you for your continued support.

Eugene Fluckey’s “Thunder Below!” And Richard O’Kane’s “Clear the Bridge!” are also excellent reads.

You are on the right track-Japanese ships actually arrived in port with dud torpedoes in their hulls. The other key change came in early 1943 when Charles Lockwood assumed command of the sub fleet at Pearl. His boss Nimitz was an old submariner. Bad combination for Japanese shipping with two old submariners developing a plan.

Sounds like the same ephphany the Wehrmacht experienced around November 1942 - "wait a sec... they're not supposed to be able to do that..... only we can do that...."

Well that's unreasonable. But what if they actually listened? They fixed/upgraded other systems very fast, not the torpedo though. It wasn't just submarines that suffered - torpedo bombers were less successful because of the torpedo too. For a long time they used torpedo bombers for just regular bombing.

@@recoil53 PT boats suffered as well.

The god-father of the two cataclysms.

Thanks for the recommendation!

TAKE OUT THOSE FUCKIN’ PT BOATS!

No, the torpedoes ran about 10 feet _deeper_ than they were set for. Plus the magnetic field in the Pacific something-something different than off Newport in the Atlantic. And the contact exploder didn't work right. What a clusterf*k.

@@wwoods66 All things which could have been discovered if the Ordinance Department had bothered to do a few live fire tests.... What is it about US Ordinance Departments that every time the history of procurement in the US is brought up it's always a story about some giant Charlie Foxtrot? They make Milo Minderbinder's orgainzation look competent by comparison.

Japanese submarines were primarily based on the "fleet submarine" concept. The idea was that submarine screens would wittle down the american fleet before the "decisive battle", as they assumed the enemy would transit the pacific (a concept the us had mostly abandoned in favor of island hopping even before the war). I believe they neglected the usefulness of submarines against troop tansports and shipping because they weren't planning for an attritional battle.

In defense of Japan they *might* have won at Midway if the plan hadn't been compromised by U.S. codebreakers, or if they had caught a lucky break or two once the two opposing fleets were engaged. While the end results of the battle were lopsided, most of the battle as it was underway was very closely fought and could have gone the other way. Not that it would have mattered of course, a Japanese victory at Midway would have prolonged the war but wouldn't have been decisive in the way they wanted it to be. It wouldn't have been a war-winner.

Thank you for your continued support to our channel

Thank you for your service.

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/l9elZ7yX1t7YeqM.html

IKR? I am just floored by the incompetence displayed by the Ordinance Dept. That they would send subs out there with UNTESTED torpedoes, and then blame crews when they fail to work. What’s more expensive? Losing a few torpedoes in testing or losing a few subs and their crews when those torpedoes don’t perform as advertised? Christie should never have been made inspector, especially consider he was “inspecting” his own design.

Confirm reading that Uboat crews had 75% fatality rate followed by Panzer crews at 60%, ordinary infantry at 20%.

Thank you for your family’s service!

Tell that to RUSSIA.