So. Is Finland an ally of Nazi Germany? Well, we've actually investigated this issue before, check it out here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/jd2HfZWf2reYpIU.html JOIN THE TIMEGHOST ARMY: www.patreon.com/join/timeghosthistory
@Banana_Lord Жыл бұрын
Sota jatkuu lapissa ;(
@garethfergusson9538 Жыл бұрын
Dammit I always miss these!
@Yamato-tp2kf Жыл бұрын
I would love to see a special about the Portuguese and Spanish "neutrality" situation... that would be great!
@Yamato-tp2kf Жыл бұрын
@@davidw.2791 Oh... I never heard about that... Interesting... I will check out about that event... And yes, Goa was a Portuguese colony at the time indeed...
@Yamato-tp2kf Жыл бұрын
@@davidw.2791 And they were the ones that got out of the war better than the other "allies" to the Germans, they did become a communist regime, they maintained a neutral stance until last year!
@amyf6786 Жыл бұрын
My grandfather fought in both wars: Winter war and Continuation war. My grandmother was taking care of 6 children including my mother. My mother and her two brothers were send to Sweden to be safe as a war child. My grandfathers brother was killed in action but my grandfather stayed alive. He was kind and friendly, he took us grand children to fishing every time we visited grandparents. He had nightmares for the rest of his life, the war letf its marks. I want to pay respects to all the veterans of war. Because of you we live in a free country 🇫🇮❤️
@HistoryMadeSimple90 Жыл бұрын
That's an incredible story and even if you're not religious, I hope he is well in heaven.
@brokenbridge6316 Жыл бұрын
Finland in WWII will always be seen as a unique participant.
@patrickhutchison6465 Жыл бұрын
Finland is one of the most interesting nations to take part in this war. The only Democracy fighting with the Axis. Yet so many World War Two narratives pass them over as if they were irrelevant. Thanks for the great special.
@samuelattas3864 Жыл бұрын
Yes and Finland had a smal jewish minority fighting in the Finnish army, on the axis side, as equals. That really makes Finland stand out In the crowd.
@Aarne210 Жыл бұрын
@@MarinealverFinland's leaders were actually elected in free elections.
@penttitapper Жыл бұрын
We are enemies with the russians. Russians remember Finland is the only country resisting them
@SteamboatW Жыл бұрын
@@Marinealver Stalin wasn't elected in a Democracy or even with a "real" voting process. He was effectively elected by himself. Hitler was elected in a Democracy that he then promptly abolished. Finland was a democracy, and still is. That is a big difference.
@willkettle3959 Жыл бұрын
@@Marinealver hitler wasn't elected, he was given power by franz von papen
@Perkelenaattori Жыл бұрын
I have to say that you guys at Timeghost should make a poster with that picture of a cigar smoking Mannerheim. It's remarkable.
@ognimimerkki Жыл бұрын
It's a badass shot!
@kirbyculp3449 Жыл бұрын
Look for the Mercedes-Benz WWII poster.
@SuperCompany007 Жыл бұрын
I have to say Indy pronounces Finnish names suprisingly well!
@janelavie4115 Жыл бұрын
Only two European countries involved in WW2 stayed as parliamentary democracies troughout tho war, UK and Finland. Being a small country ”on the wrong side” and able to do that was an amazing achievement.
@henriikkak209111 ай бұрын
Finland was always on Finland's side. It's a shame that no one else really was.
@finntastique38915 ай бұрын
That's right. Also, only three European capital cities of nations participating in World War Two were never invaded; Helsinki, London and Moscow.
@juocyjay5732 Жыл бұрын
These are the best pronounciations of finnish names by an american ive heard, good job👍👍
@mathieu564 Жыл бұрын
A very good episode. The finnish involvement is rarely shown in documentaries about World War II.
@maxsmodels Жыл бұрын
I can't think of two countries whe drew a worse geographic lottery than Finland and Poland.
@Lonovavir Жыл бұрын
Poland got it worse. Finland barely survived the war intact while Poland was conquered twice and occupied by the Soviets until the late 80s.
@Unknown1355 Жыл бұрын
Poland is right on the European Plain, Finland at least got plenty of lakes and deep forests to hinder any advances. Plus the Nordic winter doesn't treat the unprepared well. Poland however does have the economic advantage of being next to central Europe's economic power houses, which is helpful when they also are in the EU and NATO. Not so much when your neighbours are less than friendly.
@jokemon9547 Жыл бұрын
What do you mean? Finland and Poland are geographically very different and Finland is much better off due to the forest and bodies of water covering most of the country and the climate as well. The pre-Winter War border also forced an enemy, that being the USSR, to be bottlenecked through the Karelian isthmus as well. This is partially why the idea of Greater Finland was popular around Finnish independence, as stretching Finland east would have allowed for the so-called "3 isthmus defense", with the border running between the Gulf of Finland, Ladoga, Onega and the White Sea, where an enemy would have been forced to attack on the isthmuses between these bodies of water.
@henriikkak20913 ай бұрын
I would rank them as follows: 1. Ukraine because both the Germans and the Soviets were after the territory 2. Poland 3. Belarus 4. Tie between Baltic states Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia Finland I would rate 7, tops. There are Central-Eastern European countries competing for that spot, and that's just Europe in WWII context.
@Sergi88998 Жыл бұрын
Man, I love these specials episodes. As a Spaniard, I would really like to see one about the "adventures" of the spanish blue division, barely mentioned in the main episodes. Thank you for your amazing job!
@benzo4504 Жыл бұрын
I feel like the Chinese-Japanese front has not been covered for a long time. Maybe a special about that? As always, the quality of your videos is on another level. Love this channel. I always recommend it to people.
@ScooterWeibels Жыл бұрын
It's been quiet for a while but it's going back to action soon. A good view of China inside the United Nations alliance is covered well in the book "Forgotten Ally".
@WorldWarTwo Жыл бұрын
We' ve said it many times, the front is stagnated. If there are news, there is coverage
@worldofdoom995 Жыл бұрын
Its gonna be a stagnate front since Japan is busy trying to hold onto the Pacific islands. Expect more coverage in Mid-April.
@totalwar1793 Жыл бұрын
Until Operational Ichi-Go, nothing happens on the Chinese-Japanese front
@briceoka5623 Жыл бұрын
Interesting to learn that Germany is still industrially strong enough to supply itself and Finland with weapons at this stage of the war! Thank you for the back to back upload days!
@nodirips_8537 Жыл бұрын
No Pzkpfw V (Panther) or VI (Tiger) for Finland. The FAF is currently operating Bf 109G fighter planes though.
@brownmold Жыл бұрын
That is a debatable point. They are still manufacturing. But not enough. Not enough quality, not enough quantity. There are shortfalls of everything.
@McSlobo Жыл бұрын
@@nodirips_8537 To be fair Finland's terrain is not exactly well suited for heavy tank warfare.
@nodirips_8537 Жыл бұрын
@@McSloboiterally hundreds of lakes and wooded areas, it must be very different to fight in winter or in summer. On the other hand the finns did use AFVs like captured soviet T - 26s and Stug III produced by Germany
@soapycactuses9281 Жыл бұрын
@@nodirips_8537 Later Germany would provide some Faustpatrons and the 303rd stug brigade during the summer 1944 fighting as well as the Kluhmei(Sorry for butchering name) luftwaffe detachment. But for a time they stopped all economic and millitary aid to Finland when in spring of 44 they were considering of breaking ties for the first time.
@johnt.4947 Жыл бұрын
Thank-you for this video. As always, quality stuff. For context; I'm a 2nd gen Finn born in the US, on my Father's side. He served in USAAF during WW2. At 8:10, could you not have found a more flattering photo of Mannerheim? It did make me laugh, so thanks for that! Maybe that was a typical look for him?
@samuelattas3864 Жыл бұрын
I think the old marshal looks rather cool and bussines like on that photo. I'm born in Denmark but my mother had to flee the Karelian Isthmus in 1944 when she was three years old, leaving her father behind who fell in the battle of Viborg bay that same summer..
@Zetecci Жыл бұрын
It would be nice, if you could make a special episode about Finland after Winter War and another episode about Continuation War. 😀
@Perkelenaattori Жыл бұрын
Beyond the first offensive phase it was mostly defensive. Then massive battles in 1944 which I believe we'll see in the weekly episodes. The home front had a big famine during the winter of 41/42 which modern day Russians are now rewriting into "Finnish warcrimes" in their new Z- interpretation of history.
@Zetecci Жыл бұрын
Yes I know finnish military history quite well. I'm finnish and I really like Indys videos and I'd like to watch special finnish episodes as well, because winter war episodes were awesome. I've been watching these week by week WW1, B2W, and WW2 videos since 2014. :)
@MrHockeycrack Жыл бұрын
@@Perkelenaattori Famine is a bit too much said, but certain shortage of food, yes indeed.
@Perkelenaattori Жыл бұрын
@@MrHockeycrack We would've had a widespread famine without massive German food aid and even with the aid, we had people starve both in POW camps and civilians. Reason was because the harvest of 1941 was basically a catastrophe.
@indianajones4321 Жыл бұрын
I feel like Hungary could also get an episode like this because of the situation from being with the Axis to being occupied with a puppet regime. Not saying you guys need to make an episode for Hungary (I know there’s a lot to cover in WW2 and people might think since Hungary gets an episode then all belligerents need an episode). But it would be nice to see an overview of what happened in Hungary across these past few months. Thanks for all your hard work WW2 team!
@Zen-sx5io Жыл бұрын
Agreed, Thailand already got an episode over a year ago.
@jeffreyhornblower6515 Жыл бұрын
Ya, it would be nice, but it's a lot of research and filming, plus with it being 1944 gonna be a busy year, for them considering D day is happening
@indianajones4321 Жыл бұрын
@@jeffreyhornblower6515 100% true, 1944 is a massive year for WW2 even without D-Day
@penttitapper Жыл бұрын
@@indianajones4321 Finland is not a coward nation. Hungary betrayed us and they will pay
@JohnJohn-pe5kr Жыл бұрын
@@indianajones4321 we need something on Bulgaria too.
@salsheikh4508 Жыл бұрын
Hope you get a million subscribers this year Indy
@WorldWarTwo Жыл бұрын
Thank you
@teemukaikelsvitch8858 Жыл бұрын
Finland was The only nation during ww2 what fought against The allies and Germany, and was not occupied
@niklasvonschantz7912 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for shedding light on the Finnish situation! Hope to see more coverage towards the summer, as I hear the Soviets might be planning for a big offensive then. Let's see if that comes to be!
@scottmwilhelms2437 Жыл бұрын
Hey now no reading ahead nor spoilers. 🙈😄
@Lonovavir Жыл бұрын
Are you getting spoiler alerts from that Bletchley Park operation the British have?
@scottmwilhelms2437 Жыл бұрын
@@Lonovavir Someone's getting some Five Eyes intel... oops that doesn't exist yet. 🤫 Or does it? 🤔🤷♂️
@MrHockeycrack Жыл бұрын
No no, the war will be decided in the "Great" Race to Berlin. Why would mighty Generalissimus Stalin sacrifice blood, lives, time, money and material invading Finland, a side stage?
@iamnolegend2519 Жыл бұрын
Neat. Unexpected special!
@anttibjorklund1869 Жыл бұрын
"Finland, Finland, Finland! The country where I quite like to be..."🎵🎶
@gunman47 Жыл бұрын
Great suspense on this Special video here Indy & team. Will be interesting to see in the next couple of weeks how things will play out...
@scottmwilhelms2437 Жыл бұрын
Trapped between Hitler and Stalin, talk about a rock and a hard place or perhaps a concentration camp and a gulag. 😳
@McSlobo Жыл бұрын
Sisu, perkele!
@RoyalMela Жыл бұрын
That is what Stalin did to ethnic Finns in Karelia. Tens of thousands finnic people in Soviet Karelia were sent to gulaks or killed.
@MrHockeycrack Жыл бұрын
Well, that's exactly what happened to whole Eastern Europe, Konzentrationslager or Gulag, plague or cholera. Read "Bloodlands - Europe Between Hitler and Stalin" by historian Timothy Snyder. It's rough reading.
@scottmwilhelms2437 Жыл бұрын
@@MrHockeycrack Perhaps someday, my depression forces me to be careful in what I expose myself to. I'm already too "woke" to, I'm sure merely the surface of, humanity's dehumanizing behaviors.
@MrHockeycrack Жыл бұрын
@@scottmwilhelms2437 I must admit that I myself couldn't read it to end, just until about 10 million corpses. It's a large book, truly devastating, but it helps to understand Eastern Europe today.
@dianeduffcroop8158 Жыл бұрын
I'm a huge World War II buff and I just stumbled across your remarkable Channel! I love your presentation of the reporter of the era dishing out the news to us! Really well done and really nostalgic. I love it! So I'm a new subscriber and I've already liked, subscribed and shared to several of my friends! Looking forward to your new releases! Your friend Jim from Seattle 🎉❤
@WorldWarTwo Жыл бұрын
Welcome to our channel!!!
@jonnmostovoy2406 Жыл бұрын
Indy wants us to send gifts to him on Sep 28th :)
@Southsideindy Жыл бұрын
Too obvious? But yeah.
@rabihrac Жыл бұрын
Astonishing explanations! This is one of your best-off Specials, in my opinion, Indy. Cheers to how you make the subtle nuances of international relations comprehensible and exciting in your storytelling!
@esak1880 Жыл бұрын
Great episode. I will wait the next one which could be the biggest nattle ever in the nordic and that is Tali-Ihantala 1944
@franklinclinton4539 Жыл бұрын
Finland is a sort of sad example of how a country can win every battle but lose the war. There is a saying in Finnish which translates to: "A Finn can defeat 10 russkies! But what about when the 11th shows up?"
@midsue Жыл бұрын
Agree Finland won almost every battle in the winter war (1939-1940) and continues war (1941-1944) but still lost the war's, because the Soviet Union was a superpower (plenty of recourses, people, territory and weapons) and Finland is a small but strong country in spirit. But Finland won the Lappland war (1944-1945) against Nazi-Germany, but sadly most of northern Finland was burnt down 🔥
@lembitmoislane. Жыл бұрын
It’s not a sad example. Look at Romania and others. Finland as a small country was able to independently preserve it’s independence, political, economic, and cultural institutions. Compared to all of the other realistic outcomes, what Finland had was the best realistic result.
@Cyrenetes Жыл бұрын
Yksi Suomalainen tappaa kymmenen ryssää: ei taida riittää, johonkin se tyssää. One Finn kills ten ruskies: doubt that's enough, you'll hit a wall eventually.
@mikaleppakoski5113 Жыл бұрын
Finland 🇫🇮 is very happy 😊. ½-millions foes 6ft under
@Lonovavir Жыл бұрын
Victory was not being turned into a vassal state of the Soviet Union.
@alexamerling79 Жыл бұрын
If Finland leaves, than army group North really will be stuck between a rock and a hard place.
@spikespa5208 Жыл бұрын
And it most likely isn't going to be pretty when they retreat.
@Perkelenaattori Жыл бұрын
@@spikespa5208 It's not also going to go well for northern Finland. Me thinks plenty of matches will be thrown around plenty of wooden houses.
@gargravarr2 Жыл бұрын
And if army group North retreats from Narva and Estonia, Finland will be vulnerable from the South. If the Soviet advances continue, this can turn into a dangerous game of chicken between the Germans and the Finns.
@scottmwilhelms2437 Жыл бұрын
Or a cold place? 🥶
@scottmwilhelms2437 Жыл бұрын
@@gargravarr2 Remember no reading ahead. 🙈
@thcdreams654 Жыл бұрын
Always top quality content. Thanks man. Love everything you and the crew produce.
@ricklyle373923 күн бұрын
Excellent content. I really enjoy your input & analysis of these “sub plots” of the axis & allies. Thanks
@Redmanticore Жыл бұрын
could have also mentioned the mystery of Murmansk railway, that was neither cut off nor captured and continued to operate as an important, even critical to the survival of the Soviet Union, destination for Allied Arctic convoys throughout the war.(Lend Lease that usa was giving to the soviets) because the USA told Finland not to. it is a historical fact.[1] with this, it could be, that Finland saved the Soviet Union. and with that, destroyed the Axis Powers. which might be the reason the Soviet Union let Finland keep its independence and did not commit atrocities against the Finnish people. for example at one point, Finnish units were within 30 km (19 mi) of the Murmansk railway, but were suddenly unwilling to continue the attack. [1]"On 5 November, Siilasvuo was informed by the Finnish high command that the attack should be halted for political reasons, and that no additional Finnish reinforcements would be forthcoming despite Siilasvuo's wishes. The United States of America had given the Finnish government a note demanding the attack be stopped. This had caused Finnish President Risto Ryti to express his concern over the operation to Mannerheim. " - Finnish_III_Corps_(Continuation_War) , Wikipedia strange that such possibly important decision, that possibly meant the whole ww2 result could have been decided, is not mentioned in the big ww2 discussion to usa people, nor to russian people, or to world people at large, barely even finnish people, have to be real history nerd reading finnish history to know that. perhaps on that day, it was truly decided, whether we were also going to be on the western side in the world, or not.
@henriikkak209111 ай бұрын
Thanks for bringing it up.
@UnclePutte Жыл бұрын
As grim as those days were, we can today open our maps and conclude that where Finland still stands, the Soviet Union and the German Reich have both met their just and gruesome ends. It was the deserved outcome of the Molotov-Ribbentrop.
@calbackk Жыл бұрын
Thank you for this highly interesting special epidode. You manage to always find new angels to the events you are covering. 👍
@WorldWarTwo Жыл бұрын
Thank you for the support Christer!
@ralphgreenjr.2466 Жыл бұрын
Karl Gustav Mannerheim, "The Greatest Finn of them all." He danced the death dance with the cobra (Hitler) and the scorpion (Stalin) and won! The only country to ask the germans to leave and they did. He was the only German ally that was able to negotiate a peace with the Russians without being occupied. One of the greatest statesmen of the 20th century.
@caryblack5985 Жыл бұрын
Incorrect. The Germans did notleave voluntarily. Have you heard of the Lapland war that devastated northern Finland when the Finns chased the Germans out of northern Finland?
@modest_spice6083 Жыл бұрын
@@caryblack5985 they even lost Petsamo to the Soviet Union for asking for peace in the Continuation War. Allying with fascists only brought Finland more shame and humiliation.
@jounisuninen Жыл бұрын
@@modest_spice6083 How about Soviet Union allying with fascists in 1939? When Russia attacked Finland 30 Nov 1939 it was supported by Nazi-Germany.
@modest_spice6083 Жыл бұрын
@@jounisuninen And what did it brought the Soviet Union? All who allies with the fascists will eventually be fucked.
@kf7mjf Жыл бұрын
I own an NFA registered Panzerschreck that was one of the roughly 1500 sent to Finland in 1944.
@grevberg Жыл бұрын
I've been to Rovaniemi A town in northern Finland, not far from Haparanda in Sweden. A town that the Germans burnt to the ground on the way out of Finland.
@nygarmik Жыл бұрын
As a Finn, I very much approve this episode.
@nygarmik Жыл бұрын
...aaaaand good job pronouncing our notoriously difficult names.
@WorldWarTwo Жыл бұрын
Thank you
@MulderStarling Жыл бұрын
I bet it's gonna be whitewashing the alliance with fascism if a Finn likes it
@clarkstartrek Жыл бұрын
By this date in the war the Soviet Union cared little about anything. They were looking to the end of the War, and its aftermath: the Occupation of most Eastern European Countries.
@jasonmussett2129 Жыл бұрын
Another great episode 😀
@Jayjay-qe6um Жыл бұрын
During World War II, the Lapland War saw fighting between Finland and Nazi Germany - effectively from September to November 1944 - in Finland's northermmost region Lapland.
@MrHockeycrack Жыл бұрын
No way! You spoiler.
@jounisuninen Жыл бұрын
From September 1944 to April 1945.
@Rom3_29 Жыл бұрын
Finns saw German mismanaged military leader’s ego. Big mistake not providing winter clothing for his frontline soldiers, 1941 Russian winter. Finns knew Germany was a lost cause. Wasting his most battle harden troops on cold winter. Germans was to attack from Finnish Lapland to Murmansk. But they were unable to cope with freezing cold. Nazis were stuck in same place for four years.
@roymartin500 Жыл бұрын
Great job!
@Hilts931 Жыл бұрын
You look great for 79 years old, Indy
@yoretabio4537 Жыл бұрын
I think Jodl met Mannerheim in Mikkeli HQ, not in capital Helsinki.
@pauls1883 Жыл бұрын
Indie was born in July 1943? 😮 Damn, son. Looking in fine shape for a 79 year old.
@climax050 Жыл бұрын
A great special as always. Germany has really always struggled with allies, especially ones that were willing to stick by them through thick and thin. This war is different due to them undoubtedly being the villains but still, its an interesting historical pattern that repeated itself not only in the world wars, but in wars before the German unification such as the Napoleonic wars and the 7 years war. Perhaps its just bad luck but its just something I realized during this episode.
@caryblack5985 Жыл бұрын
Citino makes the point that since Prussian times Germany did not cooperate well with their allies.
@MrHockeycrack Жыл бұрын
There was not Germany before 1870.
@caryblack5985 Жыл бұрын
@@MrHockeycrack I said since Prussian times.
@EdEighty6 Жыл бұрын
Awesome picture of Mannerheim with cigar :D Where did you find it?
@dragosstanciu9866 Жыл бұрын
If the Soviets are clever they could abandon their territorial demands on Finland and convince the Finns to join the fight against the Axis.
@xXxWARvetxXx Жыл бұрын
Well, the Lapland war showed they didn't really even need to, unfortunately the Finns weren't in much of a position to negotiate, so Finland did fight the Germans even if the small number in Finnish territory
@kirby1225 Жыл бұрын
Problem being that no way would Finland trust the Soviets or vice versa really.
@elbeto191291 Жыл бұрын
I'd like to see a special about Romania in 1943 and 1944, well, from Barbarossa up until now. Are they (were they ever really) buddies with Hitler at this point?
@caryblack5985 Жыл бұрын
Yes they sent more troops into the USSR than any other ally the Germans had. They promised them lennad in the southern USSR and the city of Odessa.
@isakferm7686 Жыл бұрын
As I was thinking days ago; the german occupation of Hungary has severly damaged the realtions between Germany and its "partners". We see that now that Finland are seeking a way out and Romania feels that they will be occupied next after Hungary. Even neutrals as you mention, Indy, like Spain who withdrew the Blue Division and Sweden who closed its railroads through its borders. Is this be the prelude for the begning of the end???? It is getting excited every day :)))
@JPriz416 Жыл бұрын
There was a man who served in the Finnish army against Russia, served in German army against Russia and fought for the American army in the Korean war and in the Vietnam conflict.
@mikaleppakoski5113 Жыл бұрын
3xArmy Captain indeed.
@vksasdgaming9472 Жыл бұрын
Lauri Törni, anglicanized Larry Thorne. He was one of those Finns say "sotahullu". That loosely translated it means war-happy.
@scottmwilhelms2437 Жыл бұрын
So a true product of his environment. 🤔 No insult intended yet that sounds like a deeply depressing life. 😨
@pasinylander9074 Жыл бұрын
He served as Waffen-SS captain
@JPriz416 Жыл бұрын
@@scottmwilhelms2437 he only joined the Germans to fight the Russians.
@naveenraj2008eee Жыл бұрын
Hi Indy Another wonderful special epsiode. Nice to watch. Thanks.
@Pauliczek31gmail Жыл бұрын
Please create a video on the Munich agreement and Occupation of Czechoslovakia 1939
@Southsideindy Жыл бұрын
Go watch out between 2 war series on TimeGhost history. We covered all that.
@drunkenfinnpeltsi5968 Жыл бұрын
Finland barely won the summer battles in 1944 at vtk line but still won. Lost the war but won the most battles
@hentehoo27 Жыл бұрын
At least Finland did not have the same fate as the Baltic countries: getting occupied and people transferred to Siberia
@lembitmoislane. Жыл бұрын
@@hentehoo27 People who think Finland lost the wars should look at us Baltics or the larger countries down south. The wars were an strategic victory, with any defeat meaning Finland would had been made a puppet state or annexed.
@Unknown1355 Жыл бұрын
@@lembitmoislane. It was not a crushing defeat, but it was Finland that gave land and economy away. Let alone it didn't sit at the victors' table in Paris. It was not a crushing defeat like Romania's, but saying it was not a defeat is just plain ignorance. Claiming victory is even more nonsensical, considering what the goals in the beginning were: get lands back, be safe from the Soviets. Instead we got the term Finlandization in this timeline.
@Lonovavir Жыл бұрын
@@hentehoo27: Or ending up like Poland, occupied by the USSR until the late 80s.
@secretjosh5619 Жыл бұрын
@@Unknown1355 Finland succeeded in continuing to exist. There can be no greater victory than that over the Soviet Union. Saying they technically lost is nitpicking.
@ewok40k Жыл бұрын
I think someone wants to FINNISH their part in the Axis...
@jakkeledin4645 Жыл бұрын
Finland was never been with Nazis if Great Britannia and USA has had viser politic. If Finland was really helped Germany, war was been 2 years longer.
@maygeror Жыл бұрын
such good content... Kiitos. Share this link widely!
@HistoryMadeSimple90 Жыл бұрын
this is a genuinely amazing video!
@Bhaalspawn84 Жыл бұрын
Nice picture of Mannerheim,never seen that before. What a character. Noble background. Russian Empire officer. Civil war leader. There are pictures of him riding a horse naked.
@ericcarlson3746 Жыл бұрын
who was naked? him or the horse?
@ExecutiveSonda Жыл бұрын
Met Dalai Lama and gifted him a revolver.
@henriikkak209111 ай бұрын
@@ericcarlson3746Both
@henriikkak209111 ай бұрын
The civil war bit is not something to brag about in Finland, but his achievements in WWII time are undeniable.
@AndrewSmithThomas Жыл бұрын
"The Finnish situation as winter 1944 ... finishes." Missed an opportunity there. ;)
@Southsideindy Жыл бұрын
Nope. Didn't miss it, just didn't choose to take it.
@thebigm7558 Жыл бұрын
Why was there never a bigger effourd to cut the murmansk railway?
@caryblack5985 Жыл бұрын
They tried and failed mostly because the Germans were not up to the fighting in the far north.
@ryanrusch3976 Жыл бұрын
The more you understand how the minor powers are treated, the more you question whether or not the war will ever be worth it for them.
@carbonara2144 Жыл бұрын
Finland was attacked in 1939 when SU was an ally of the nazi-Germany. Country would have wanted to have close relations to western powers but it was impossible. There was no choice to opt out of the war.
@ryanrusch3976 Жыл бұрын
@@carbonara2144 i don’t think I ever claimed they could opt out, I just stated that this war will never be worth it.
@iam5085 Жыл бұрын
It was worth it. There is a huge difference between Russia and Finland, happiness, average salaries etc (just check the statistics, compare what happened in the Baltics and Poland) and due to war reparations, the industry got a huge boost and the average life standards rose with it. At the end, you don't let anyone empty or rule your house, do you?
@timoterava7108 Жыл бұрын
@@iam5085 In general I agree with you. However the war reparations were a huge burden for Finland - not a "boost", which was one of the myths created after the war to make the Finnish citizens accept the new soviet-pleasing politics.
@MrHockeycrack Жыл бұрын
For Finland, definitely worth it. They were the real Independence Wars. Until that Soviet Union was ready to annex Finland as former subject of Russian Empire, since 1944 they settled for Finland being under certain rather loose Soviet influence, but left alone as democracy and market economy. Also the large field Army managed to protect most of the civil society from horrors of war and occupation. Great success!
@tomhenry897 Жыл бұрын
Finland only had moderate goals Did not want to do more
@mattw7857 ай бұрын
These vids are gret - all of them. Going through the whole series. Will Korean War be done at some point?
@WorldWarTwo7 ай бұрын
Good luck doing so! Yes, it will! -TimeGhost Ambassador
@mattw7857 ай бұрын
@@WorldWarTwo Great. looking forward to it. I download the vids and listen to on the train.. keeps me sane!
@jayfrank1913 Жыл бұрын
Indy, do you claim birthdays in years before you were born? It seems like it and I think that it's a perfectly legitimate thing to do! :) I gives one many, many more birthdays!
@martijn9568 Жыл бұрын
I mean, Indy is a TimeGhost, after all😉
@alexanderkravchenko5479 Жыл бұрын
Wow, Indy's looking great for his age.
@MrPetteri67 Жыл бұрын
Interesting video. Some additional information, which may or may not have been in the other videos mentioned in this one. Finland had communicated to Soviet Union already in March 1943 through unofficial secret channels its interest in peace talks. Soviet reply was that only unconditional surrender would be acceptable. Naturally Finland was not ready for it, since we very well knew what that meant based on the experience of Baltic countries. Unconditional surrender remained Soviet's demand all the way until the summer of 1944 and the battle of Tali-Ihantala, in which Finns (with German help) managed (once again) to stop Red Army from advancing. Perhaps more significantly, Stalin was at the time in a hurry to get to Berlin before his western allies, so peace talks could then finally begin. In the end they resulted in a harsh peace that let us keep our internal democracy and freedom, but significantly limited our freedom to conduct our foreign policy for nearly 5 decades and partially up until February last year. Few more days and all that will be history...
@MrHockeycrack Жыл бұрын
Spoiler ALERT
@nbhoser Жыл бұрын
So Sept. 28 was only Indy's birthday THAT year? (5:43) When was his birthday in other years?
@Kumimono Жыл бұрын
February 30th. :) That's why he looks so young for 79 year old man.
@jankowalski3496 Жыл бұрын
Sytuacja Finlandii była w bardzo trudnej sytuacji. Ale i tak lepszej niż Polska.
@stephenwood6663 Жыл бұрын
As a side note: in the winter of 1941, the Finns took part in a joint Finno-German offensive called Operation Silver Fox against Murmansk, through which a ton of lend-lease flowed, including fully a quarter of the food, oil and war materiel sent by the Americans. Silver Fox was ultimately a Soviet victory, but by some accounts Finnish troops held control of the Murmansk railway at several points. Finland lacks the manpower to make serious offensives against the Soviet Union, but what offensives they have made have been directed against hard-to-defend parts of the Soviet supply line, and this is something which cannot have escaped Stavka's attention.
@paulboakes3680 Жыл бұрын
I've always wanted to know why Sweden was allowed to remain neutral and wasn't just attacked ? It had the iron ore that Germany, Russia, France and Britain needed but nobody just took it ? Why ? Love the show and i"m so glad that you finally covered the Boer War 👍 💕 now just explain the Seven Years War and American football and all is good lol 😂 👍
@caryblack5985 Жыл бұрын
It would be very hard for the Allies to attack Sweden with Norway under Axis conk. The Swedes supplied Germany with iron ore throughout the war so there was no need to attack. The Swedes also had extensive explosives at the mines in case someone decided to attack them they could destroy the mines.
@WTF2BlueTiger Жыл бұрын
Sweden is the 4th largest country in Europe at the time, occupying it would be far more costly than simply buying the goods it wanted from Sweden. Especially since after Norway, Sweden didnt exactly have any options as to who to sell to (the allies would probably outbid and buy swedish ore, but there was no route germany couldnt easily intercept after it took over Norway and Denmark).
@gordybing1727 Жыл бұрын
One of the stories was the Goring had a Swedish mistress in the 1920's, and went personally to Mr. A. H., to argue the side of Sweden, and he agreed not to invade. (I think that is from "Eagles of the Third Reich" by Samuel W. Mitchum, Jr.)
@Vonstab Жыл бұрын
In a single word, appeasement. Sweden became very good at making themselves more usefull to Germans as an unoccupied country than as a conquered province of the Reich. It was not just the iron ore trade but also a lot of logistical support for the German troops in Norway and northern Finland. The port town of Luleå had a large logistics base operated by the Germans using local Swedish labour and German military officers wearing civilian clothes to provide a bit of camouflage for the violation of the rules of neutrality. The Germans were also allowed to use the Swedish telephone and telegraph networks for their communications which they happily did not knowing that Sweden had cracked the supposedly unbreakable code of the Geheimschreiber. Still there were limitations to how far the Swedish government would go in their cooperation and the Germans prepared for an invasion at least twice but always ended up having to divert those resources elsewhere. From 1943 onward cooperation with Germany was reduced as the Germans were losing the war while the Swedish armed forces had been rebuilt and expanded compared to their poor state in 1940. Instead Sweden move over to cooperation with the western allies including intelligence sharing and the training and equipment of Danish and Norwegian troops in Sweden. Plans were also made for Swedish troops to intervene in those countries if the local German forces refused to surrender in 1945.
@SteamboatW Жыл бұрын
@@gordybing1727 Well, Mitchum hadn't so many brain cells that it would make a difference. Görings first wife was Swedish, and he was married into Swedish nobility. Not his "mistress".
@henryclaudia5477 Жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@mrw9044 Жыл бұрын
Thinking of the Spanish Blue Division being involved in direct action against the Soviets... how did they manage not to get declared on by any of the Allies?
@blueboats7530 Жыл бұрын
What a major twist of irony: an "ally" of Nazi Germany is worried about the military reliability of the Wehrmacht
@sampohonkala4195 Жыл бұрын
The Finnish commanders came rather early on to the surprising conclusion that Finland had superior troops. Which was strange as everything the Finnish officers knew about war and could use in training the troops was brought from Germany with the jaegers.
@Lonovavir Жыл бұрын
The Germans in Finland fared poorly in 1941 compared to the Finnish troops. The retreats (plural) of the SS Nord in particular made a bad impression.
@timoterava7108 Жыл бұрын
@@sampohonkala4195To be precise - the Finnish troops were superior to Germans in Finland (only). No doubt the Germans would have been better in Central Europe. Not "everything" was brought from Germany by the Jaegers. Some older officers had Russian Imperial training - even from the Military Academy (not Mannerheim). Many had been trained in European Military Academies (e.g. Airo in École Supérieure de Guerre, with de Gaulle). Also Finland had experimented and developed some own tactics, equipment and methods.
@MrHockeycrack Жыл бұрын
@@timoterava7108 And the until recently continued tradition of brutal hazing was purely from Russian Imperial Army. Which we can see in modern Russian Army too.
@timoterava7108 Жыл бұрын
@@MrHockeycrack There was never any "brutal" hazing in the Finnish military.
@jeffersonwright6249 Жыл бұрын
This is superb historical research and reporting: I had no idea just how political WWII had become by this time
@eerokutale277 Жыл бұрын
From Wikipedia: "In Soviet historiography, Stalin's ten blows[a] were the ten successful strategic offensives conducted by the Red Army in 1944 during World War II. The Soviet offensives drove the Axis forces from Soviet territory and precipitated Nazi Germany's collapse.......................... 4. Vyborg-Petrozavodsk Offensive (9 June - 9 August 1944). Directed against Finnish forces north of Leningrad, its strategic objective was to drive Finland out of the war by destroying Finnish forces on the Karelian Isthmus and advancing to the Kymi River,[12][13][14] whereby Soviet forces would prepare for an advance deep into Finland.[15] It was carried out by the Leningrad Front and the Karelian Front.[10][16] Soviet forces succeeded in expelling Finnish forces from territory they had gained in 1941, but the Soviet advance was halted at the Battle of Tali-Ihantala. Further north, Finnish victories in the Battles of Vuosalmi and Ilomantsi halted additional Soviet attempts to break through Finnish lines. The Soviet destruction of Finnish forces and advancement to the Kymi River had failed.[17][18] An unsigned draft document called "The Terms for Finnish Unconditional Surrender" was found in October 1993 in the Russian Foreign Ministry archive, implying that unconditional surrender was indeed the Soviet goal.[19][20] While the Red Army had failed to achieve all of its objectives, the offensive nonetheless led to Finland agreeing to Soviet peace terms. On 19 September 1944, the Moscow Armistice was signed, ending the Continuation War. Stalin dubbed the operation the Liberation of Karelia-Finland Soviet Republic."
@Significantpower Жыл бұрын
TimeGhost fans are eating well this week.
@aasmundhald7638 Жыл бұрын
Hello Indie and the rest of the timeghost crew, i do not know how you are going to cover the Lappland war, but i do hope that you cover norwegian ss crimes and war crimes during this period, and i especially hope you inform your viewers about how these war criminals were punished after the war, if you need any help i am more than willing to provide aid with both translation of sources and helping find reliable sources
@Nelsonwmj Жыл бұрын
Ah yes, the German-Finnish alliance. Probably the ONLY alliance involving Nazi Germany where they actually held their allies as equal partners with equal respect and honour. I'm SURE 20th Mountain Army will find a peaceful manner to extricate itself from the far North, sent on home with well wishes from Finnish friends... right?
@samulilahnamaki3127 Жыл бұрын
Well, to peek into future. They (Germans) did try. And Finns let them. Until Soviets were annoyed enough of that and pressured Finns to start real hostilities. Fighting would have been much less and perhaps none at all without the Soviets. Germans did however think about forcefully capturing some islands on the Gulf of Finland to help their defense in Estonia.
@henriikkak209111 ай бұрын
Well, not quite. Finns aren't Aryan, whatever the hell that means.
@jackharrison6771 Жыл бұрын
I have just found and subscribed to you. Great set and WW2 resource. The USSR specially thanked Finland for not joining German invasion. It allows USSR to keep a clear route via Lake Ladoga; and break the 900 day siege.
@worldofdoom995 Жыл бұрын
Feel free to check out their previous channel The Great War.
@muhammadfarhun1197 Жыл бұрын
They also thanked the Finns for basically burn themselves by fighting Germans in Lapland 😂
@sergegirard864 Жыл бұрын
Indie, isn’t September 28 your birthday every year, not just that one? 😂
@Southsideindy Жыл бұрын
Good point!
@markgarin6355 Жыл бұрын
Probably a silly question, but did any of the other Allies ever fight Finland forces?
@Lenn998 Жыл бұрын
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_EF_(1941)
@tomhenry897 Жыл бұрын
Don’t think so But our Russian aid did
@markgarin6355 Жыл бұрын
@@tomhenry897 considering how close the naval shipments were, landing in northern Russia...
@sampohonkala4195 Жыл бұрын
The USA never declared war on Finland. They knew quite well that Finland was on the right side - on the Finnish side - in a weird way.
@Kumimono Жыл бұрын
I seem to recall UK bombed us, once.
@lewiswestfall2687 Жыл бұрын
Thanks Indy
@BoGyokeGyi Жыл бұрын
Hopefully Romania and Bulgaria will be loyal to Germany right? Right guys?
@Kubinda12345 Жыл бұрын
This is Finnish, but not the end.
@sealove79able Жыл бұрын
A great very interesting video. What did you mean by fun retreat across Finland and Norway in the middle of winter? Were German troops in Norway worried about Allied landings there in 1944/45? Was there some anti nazi guerilla in Finland during the war?What produce and ores did the Germans take out from Finland?Have a good one.
@ilokivi Жыл бұрын
Dark humour. Winter in Lappi: cold, dark, big snow drifts and little cover from the wind which can induce a significant chill. All while lugging military equipment and ordinance and trying not to get shot at either by Soviet or Finnish troops.
@Lonovavir Жыл бұрын
There was no anti nazi guerrilla activity in Finland. Finland kind of switched sides in the late summer/early fall of 44 and ended the war fighting the Germans in the Lapland War.
@sealove79able Жыл бұрын
@@ilokivi Thank you. The Germans were masters of the blitzkrieg and breaking out of encirclements as well as making lots of their heavy and essential equipment to self destruct without firing a single shell even.So they could travel light.
@sealove79able Жыл бұрын
@@Lonovavir Thank you?Not even political opposition in their Parliament?
@Lonovavir Жыл бұрын
@@sealove79able: I don't know as much about the internal politics of WW 2 Finland. The government refused to hand its Jewish population over to the Germans so I guess that counts.
@candyvampire3393 Жыл бұрын
i was very concerned as a finn that hads missed something when reading the title quickly
@chickencharlie1992 Жыл бұрын
Oh no, not finrand!
@Yora21 Жыл бұрын
You have to know you've lost the war when all your allies are ditching you and trusting their fate to their enemies.
@MrHockeycrack Жыл бұрын
You have to know you've lost the war when you get all the most powerful economies against you. That happened for Adolf & Nazis already in December 1941.
@jamesharmer9293 Жыл бұрын
Indy's looking very colour coordinated in this episode....
@Durahan82 Жыл бұрын
Shame for Finland 🇫🇮, they had a just reason to fight the Russians.
@nancyperryman6203 Жыл бұрын
I DO NOT like the fact that Finland sided with Germany. I also DO NOT like the fact that the western countries sided with the soviet union. Finland, like the western countries, had to play the cards they were dealt. The same was also true for eastern Europe. Hitler was a devil, but so was Stalin. I hate nazism but I also hate communism. Enough said.
@user-di2mc8mr3h Жыл бұрын
You don’t even understand what you are talking about, putting Hitler and Stalin on the same level of atrocities. Hitler is practical actions, genocide and the Nuremberg trials. Stalin is the Anglo-Saxon dehumanization of the USSR during the Cold War. And the figures of Stalin, and the ideology of communism - in general.
@user-di2mc8mr3h Жыл бұрын
Not to help the USSR? Good luck. Then you would be living now - in a completely different world, completely under the Nazi heel. Because it was the USSR that saved your asses by sacrificing the lives of tens of millions of people.
@nancyperryman6203 Жыл бұрын
No I DO understand what I'm talking about.
@user-di2mc8mr3h Жыл бұрын
@@nancyperryman6203 "Understanding" - can be based on only 2 elements. Knowledge of the facts and propaganda. What is your "understanding" based on?
@nancyperryman6203 Жыл бұрын
Nancy hasn't been texting, its me her husband. I don't feel like debating you. You and me have the right to our opinions. If you disagree with me, then that's your business. I'm trying to be courteous here. If you disagree with me, then just ignore me.
@Niels_Larsen Жыл бұрын
At 3:03 the frontmost vehicle, what tank is that? I can deduce the chassis is from a KV but the turret does not resemble the one that bears the 85mm.
@pguth98 Жыл бұрын
Valentine, definitely NOT a KV.
@AS-vb2ci Жыл бұрын
That seems to be a British Infantry tank Valentine Mark IX with a QF 6-pdr (57 mm) gun. Many of those were sent to Russia under Lend-Lease program. Not a bad tank at all, its gun capable of knocking out even the Tiger tank.
@Niels_Larsen Жыл бұрын
@@pguth98 Now I see it. Thanks.
@Perkelenaattori Жыл бұрын
@@pguth98 Yes a Lend Lease Valentine. Something modern Russia likes to forget nowadays.
@donaldtrump6491 Жыл бұрын
Seems to be a lend lease Valentine from the distinctive shape of its suspension with 2 sizes of roadwheels and shape of its engine deck with either 57 or 75
@parshiwal887 Жыл бұрын
Was Jodel alluring Fins or German high command was really disconnected with reality?
@francisdec1615 Жыл бұрын
Jodl was highly intelligent, but he had to preach Hitler's bullshit to Germany's allies.
@Oxtocoatl13 Жыл бұрын
My guess is he was lying his ass off and the Finns were not buying it.
@lembitmoislane. Жыл бұрын
To remind everyone, Finland considering the Circumstances won the wars. Had Finland lost the war, it would had ended up like Romania, or Hungary, or like us Baltic States. Yes they had to give up their land, but in exchange kept their independence, their political systems, their economy, their culture, etc. Just because it doesn’t mean the big country’s standard of victory where you get to parade in the defeated’s capital doesn’t mean they lost.
@lembitmoislane. Жыл бұрын
To give an comparison, Finland with less than four million people in an area smaller than modern Germany, was able to fight against a country greater the size of some planets (Aka Plato. It’s an dwarf planet) and survive. Romania on the other hand, a far larger country was taken over by Soviet Puppets and witnessed decades of horror with two million victims, and in the end took a revolution with a thousand dead and thousands wounded to end Communism.
@williamthebonquerer9181 Жыл бұрын
@@albinalligator5772 the fins only by happen stance fought the same enemy the Nazis did because the USSR while collaborating with the Nazis decided that Finland should be in its sphere of influence and they invaded it
@SteamboatW Жыл бұрын
@@albinalligator5772 The Finns weren't Nazis.
@SteamboatW Жыл бұрын
Finland did loose the war. That counts as a loss.
@tomhenry897 Жыл бұрын
Hey low IQ Weren’t nazis
@omBrezeeNamaha Жыл бұрын
Look up Greates story never told.
@viceroy1980 Жыл бұрын
🎉Happy Birthday🎉
@creatoruser736 Жыл бұрын
Ironic. Right now Finland is on the verge of becoming part of another military alliance. And a full ally this time, not just a co-belligerent.
@henriikkak209111 ай бұрын
I fail to see the irony. Look at what happened to any other country in the Bloodlands, Europe between Hitler and Stalin.
@Kahdeksanpenninen12311 ай бұрын
And the reason is still the same: Russia. And still I do not fully trust that Allies (Nato) would help us - last time it did not.