in the eightees i hung out in a couple of pubs frequented by the Krays, and some guys remembered them well. I got talking to this old fella one night who told me his Krays story. One night Ronnie (the really fucked up one) came into the pub, and this guy who was really drunk came up to Ronnie, taking the piss out of his dog which Ronnie was carrying. it was something like a toy poodle, considered rather effeminate to be carried by a gangster. Ronnie left, without saying much. A week later Ronnie walked back into the pub, and the same guy went up to him groveling, appologising profusely for insuting Ronnies dog. Ronnie told him not to worry, but asked the guy to put his hand on the bar. The guy did so, but Ronnie pulled out a huge dagger that he had hid up his sleeve, and speared the guys hand to the bar. The guy was screaming in agony, and as Ronnie left he said out loud so the whole pub could hear, "Nobody takes the piss out of my fucking dog".

Ronnie wasn't as mad as people made out. He'd only nail your head to the floor if you really upset him.

There is a perception that the Krays only terrorised other gangsters when in reality they also terrorised ordinary working folk, when stallholders would refuse to pay them protection money and they would turn over their stalls and destroy their livelihoods. Hollywood has glamourised these two gangsters and others as idols, when they were really cold blooded criminals. East Enders, who were law abiding and came from good families in the east end, despite living in poverty, who fell victim to their violent outbursts tell it like it is, instead of sugar coating it. As for East Enders, the BBC soap, it’s created by middle-class people with a middle-class view of the working class which is patronising, idealistic and untruthful. Once again, as a cockney myself, who was born and bred in the east end before it was gentrified, I tell it like it is.

The story of Doug and Dinsdale Piranha is also very interesting

Ever felt relieved and terrified at the same time? That's how my dad felt back in the 1960s. He ran a small printing company in north London. One day a disreputable looking guy came in and placed an order for some printing. Dad printed it quickly, and when the guy came back he looked at it and said "This is very good - Reggie will be pleased. You won't have any trouble here." Dad couldn't sleep for a week.

Lots of krays films the best is Martin and Gary Kemp's version give it a watch and the krays were/are fantastic

I like that Connor always respects adverts run by the original creators, they took the time and effort to create the video so it's the least you should do, so few do this

10:08 Yes. Haha... The profile shot has the same jaw line, chin and mouth as Rob Brydon. Nice catch!

Watch the film Legend. Both twins played by Tom Hardy. Great acting for differing personalities. Went in the Blind Beggar a few years ago and Frankie Fraser was sat at the bar. I just bought a pint!

Check out a guy they were in prison with named Charles Bronson. He had absolutely nothing to do with them, but he was (and still is) mad as a hatter. And can tell a great story.

The wearing of a Suit was an English institution back in the 17th century and no South East London Wedding, Christening, 21st Birthday party, Funeral, would be complete without the blokes being suited and booted. The 40's, 50's and 60's, the men had their hair "Brylcreamed" back, with white shirts and suitable ties, were the order of the day. With the 60's came a change in style, colour and flair of the suit! But woe betide you if you didn't turn up at a Family Wedding or Funeral and not be in your "Best" suit and tie! In the early 70's, my sister's fiancé turned up at a Family Funeral in a Jacket, a Crew Neck Jumper, Jeans (Levi's) and White Converse Trainers, which is what we would wear if we were going somewhere "Smart Casual". He had no time to return home and get changed, so, a whip round was had and he was dispatched, unceremoniously, to the nearest Men's Shop (Top Shop?) to buy a whistle! So the men of that time knew how to dress and look sharp, but it has nothing to do with gangsters, Italian or not! I struggled to see where you would get that idea but then it dawned on me that Murican men don't really were anything more than Sportswear! In fact, I have seen a Young man, 22(?) turn up for a date at a family restaurant in Basketball shorts, short white socks, "Sneakers" and a Greenbay Shirt, whilst the girl turned up in a very elegant knee length dress, heeled shoes and a short Jacket, a mismatch if I've ever seen one! At my Sisters Funeral recently, there wasn't one Lad, above the age of 13, who wasn't in a suit and tie and some wore Overcoats, Crombies, most in Flat Caps. They had also bought Black Umbrella's for the women, just in case it rained! Good Lads.

Hi Connor. Smart siuts and trilby hats were the fashion in the 50s and early 60s. Every well dressed man looked like that, whether they were gangsters or not.

Me and my wee brother were called the wee krays when we were young haha we were a year apart and had black short hair,I boxed when I was 12 which probably made it funnier haha

Courts martial just means a military court where a panel of senior officers acts as judges. They can give any punishment from Confined to Barracks, to a fine, or even imprisonment. Death is only considered for treason or offering aid to the enemy.

Eastenders is a classic British soap show. TV rubbish but very popular.

Jack the hat was killed at a party at 97 Evering Road, Stoke Newington. It was the 29th, Reg had a drink in the Carpenters arms (they had bought it in '67 for their mum) and then left to go and do the hat. Reg on his deathbed in a Norwich , confessed to one other murder but didn't go into detail but thought to be Edward "Mad Teddy" Smith. It was recorded and shown in a documentary.

Monty Python sent up the Krays in their “Piranha Brothers” sketch (though only after the Krays had been jailed!) - unfortunately KZfaq doesn’t seem to approve of links these days, but just do a search (the sketch is in 2 parts). “Eastenders” is the name of the BBC’s longest-running soap, set in the East End of London.

i think steven berrkoff said it best playing george cornell ...a pair of locusts

Eastenders are people originally from the East End of London to be a true one. Also is a TV program by the same name, it's a soap opera.

I grew up in the suburbs east of London in the 60s & 70s so we occasionally drove through Whitechapel on the way into the city centre. My dad, who had close links with the police through his work as a customs investigator, would always point out The Blind Beggar and relate the story of the murder.

Ron Kray married 2 or more women long after he was locked up.

If they had not been imprisoned another gangster Freddie Forman said that they would have been murdered because other gangsters had decided that they were out of control.

I heartily recommend the film Legend in which Tom Hardy plays both twins.

A court-martial is just a military charge or crime you commit whilst in the military. You will then go in front of a military court for your charge and court case and sentence if found guilty. It's just a military court

They were obsessed with American gangster films from the late 40’s and early 50’s. That’s why they dressed how they did and were driven around in American imported cars.

There’s an interesting documentary on here about mad Frankie Fraser. That’s well worth a watch.

Funny how as people who really knew them have died , out of the woodwork come people that claim to have worked or known them . Francis Shea was my cousin

Connor "the brains " McJibbin

In one of the books I read about them it's alleged that Ronnie sexually assaulted a Corporal when they were in military prison & the Army was quite relieved when they were eventually discharged

Court Marshall can be what ever Crime You Committed You can get Kick out Up to the Death Penalty depending on the Offense.

You should check out the 90’s Katy movies then the remake with Tom Hardy afterwards - both a great watch

I think at the time the Mafia Families were famous, not just in Italy but the London and American offshoots as well, other foreign crime gangs of note were the Chinese Tongs (later the Triads) and the Japanese Yakuza.

I think is more a time thing, there wasn't an Italian connection. Though I suspect the movies played a part too. The Italian thing in the US I think came from the fact there was mass immigration from Italy in a short period, and it was quite late compared to other groups, they formed close knit communities and of course the mafia culture was one they brought with them. In the UK Italian immigrants were better known for ice cream.

They were Romani gypsy and also had Jewish blood. So maybe that's why they have almost Italian looks,

Maybe, you should watch "why there was no german mafia in the USA history?"?

My uncle Ronnie was part of their gang and he didn't have that many nice things to say about them. They were not popular because of the heat that they brought to the criminal underworld. Infact the pair of them were only made famous to the world because of a book wrote about them whilst they were in prison. Two violent thugs without the business sense to really make it ! Not real gangsters...just ignorant thugs....words from a man who was actually there at the time !

The Krays met up with several American gangsters, but I don't think anything huge came out of it. The Carpenters Arms mentioned towards the end is still there in Bethnal Green, and looks quite smart these days.

Jack 'The Hat' was found in the boot of a car in Abbey Street, SE16, next to the Finnish Church! Suggesting his body was never found is BS 😠

A courts martial is the military justice system just like the civilian court you commit a crime you go to court.

Nicknames were used so that everyone would know who was being discussed, but the police couldn't prove it (supposedly).

A " court marshal" is just a military court of law.

Why would you assume the Krays were Italian? Ronald & Reginald

They had a safe house a couple of doors down from my nan and grandad

👍💜👍💜

Your Buddies would give You Your Nic Name usually for something You did that was Unforgettable , Like Mohammad Ali was the Louisville Lip cause He wouldn't shut Up.

You have London and if you live on the west of londoners your west end people biggest crime area in London

Inside Scottish gang

As a Geordie Ive never saw the big appeal or glamour of these two. I think hey still getblushed because their a London thing. They tried getting influence up here in Newcastle and failed. We had our own nutters who saw them off! I honestly don't see the continuing appeal of them as folk hero's. The celebs sucking up to them was embarrassing. I'll say this as though as a gay man with an interest in social history , tbey are a good example of the historical connection between crime and non mainstream sexualities. After all, being homosexual was a crime so chances were you already moved in underground circles/illegal activity , so there is a slight but definite history of gay /bi/God what knows gangsters. But really, I wish people would get over them by now if I'm frank. But we seem to find awfulness more fascinating than decency!

The middle name is your knickname.

Why do people waste their breath on people like these. They were petty criminal thugs and bullies. I won’t watch this and never will be one of those who perpetuate to story of mindless thugs. It’s a thumbs down from me.