Amor Fati: Love of Fate
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2 жыл бұрынIn Greek mythology three Fates represented life forces beyond our control. One spun the thread of life, another determined its length, and the third cut it. Jung, however, understood that fate was also the external expression of an internal situation that had not been made conscious. In other words, we may unconsciously participate in creating our own misfortune and call it bad luck, injustice-or fate. How we orient ourselves to what happens to us is crucial, and working toward self-awareness helps us find a path between feeling powerless and seeking control. Ultimately, however, we are called to embrace life as it is, not as we wish it to be. This means moving beyond ego-consciousness to discover the inner center Jung called the Self. If we know we are part of something larger, we can accept our authentic nature, say yes to life in the face of uncompromising reality, and love our fate.
HERE'S THE DREAM WE ANALYZE:
"I am standing looking in the bathroom mirror over the sink. A man, who is now deceased, a former boyfriend from when I was 19 with whom I had a romantic relationship, comes up behind me and puts his arms around me. I lean back and relax into his chest. He is tall and strong, and it feels like we are a safe harbor for one another, even a part of one another. We share a feeling of complete trust and peace. I seem to know in the dream that he is no longer physically alive. Then the scene changes and I am with another man in an apartment with clothes and musical instruments lying about. We are looking into the whites of one another’s eyes, trying to see one another’s souls. Our faces are so close our foreheads are almost touching. It feels like we are connecting soul to soul. It feels sublime to connect in this way. He is also tall and strong, but not someone I ever had an intimate relationship with. He was a member of my extended friend group, a musician who writes scores for movies, and who other musicians in our group referred to as a musical genius, but I have not seen him in years. Still, I don’t seem to be surprised in the dream to be sharing such a spiritual connection with him. The depth of feeling between us sweeps away everything else. I wake up from these two encounters feeling whole and fulfilled."
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@ShannonBoschy 2 жыл бұрын
Loved your episode, as always. I would add that there is another set of ideas about this question which is the very foundation of Buddhist philosophy as it emerges from the Vedic Hindu traditions. It's connected to the idea of suffering. This of course is The First Noble Truth: "All is Suffering" which the young Shakyamuni realized after his encounters with Old Age, Sickness and Death. The solution to pain caused by these unchangeable realities of existence is to understand that our suffering is caused by our failures to accept life as it is. The Buddha of course proposes a solution to human suffering, that it to end desire and attachment. This in not an admonishment to eschew the experiences of our existence and renounce our worldly things, but another way of saying what Nietzsche describes as Amor Fati. The other concept, also rooted in the east, is Dharma, or duty to life and circumstances. The duty to act out ones fate in the role that the fates demand of us. In my own experience, and I've shared this with Lisa, this Dharma can feel like a Calling, even when it requires the acceptance of sacrifice, pain and suffering. I used to tell my kids (I used to teach HS math) that if you want a formula for suffering, it's the difference between what you want and what you currently have times how badly you want it.
@patxo8521 2 жыл бұрын
lovely, thank you
@samahsamir3 2 жыл бұрын
Loved it and enjoyed very much. Thank you
@deadsteve2180 2 жыл бұрын
Fate is just an old word for personality.
@patxo8521 2 жыл бұрын
please do an episode on self-acceptance! I think it’s much needed
@krisscanlon4051 2 жыл бұрын
I finally accept my life. Serenity Prayer I say this since AA is mentioned.
@edwinfirmage3775 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for another lovely episode! In my own experience of this I’ve come to see that every kind of BELIEF is inimical. Amor bespeaks a KNOWING: one KNOWS love; one doesn’t believe it. One must similarity KNOW one’s fate. It has to resonate in us as love does, without conscious effort on our part. The contribution of consciousness is rather to WITNESS the experience.
@karandeepkaur7244 Жыл бұрын
Loved this episode, thank you!
@LowenKM 2 жыл бұрын
Thx, folks, much valuable insight as ever. Also a request if it hasn't been covered before and seems relevant.... during the dream analysis I believe it was Lisa who noted the Animus symbols in the dream, but she also spoke with some reservations about how Jung viewed the Animus. It's also not the first time I've heard other women Jungian analysts mention similar 'disagreements'. I wonder if sometime y'all could explore and explain this POV further? BTW, apparently there is an anecdote about Jung where once he felt the Animus of a female patient come 'too much' to the fore, that he could no longer effectively continue the session. Grazie!
@siyaindagulag. 2 жыл бұрын
16:38 .This makes sense , given the conditions of utter solitude in which the outer world perhaps is contained in the inner for him. A mere thought; maybe even a stumble whilst walking. Ha.
@mercurious6699 2 жыл бұрын
Perhaps add a clickable dream school link in your accompanying text? Thank you for all the wisdom shared.
@byrongaist699 2 жыл бұрын
Is it also possible to love one's fate even if it is chaotic and meaningless?
@dresseduplunch 9 ай бұрын
I also would've loved to hear a bit more about how to move into a position of loving one's fate if it doesn't just fall into your lap, so to say. What if someone is deeply sceptical and unable to find meaning on a spiritual level and nothing seems to make sense innately? Maybe I missed it, but that question seemed to be a bit absent to me.
@PeterZeeke 2 жыл бұрын
i.e. deal with it 😎
@MIA-nt5nz 2 жыл бұрын
Can someone please let me know where I can read the Greek myth about the young women's experience with the 3 fates that was retold in this episode?
@tiffanykennedy788 8 ай бұрын
Marie-Louise von Franz alchemical active imagination pg. 36 " Dorn then goes on: Through study ( and by that he means just reading alchemical literature) one acquires knowledge; through knowledge love, which creates devotion; devotion creates repetition, and by making continuous repetition one creates in oneself experience, virtue, and power, through which the miraculous work is done, and the work in nature is of this quality." To me reading my journal which contains my writings of dreams, prayers, meditations, daily synchronicities, my psychic discoveries, and my A. A. Step work is a 'form' of "Dorn's idea that alchemy is really work that one has to do to one's own personality and does not just consist of mixing things in the retort. You do that too, but only if you transform your own personality into a magically potent one can you transform the outer materials as well" Dorn gave me a prescription in which I study my journal writings to love all my aspects and accept all of their fates.
@lexparsimoniae2107 2 жыл бұрын
@Lisa Nietzsche's amor fati has got fuck all to do with "meaning making". It is precisely in accepting the meaninglessness of existence that the Nietzschean aesthetics kicks in.