An Utterly Brilliant New Sudoku Rule
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2 жыл бұрынCongratulations to Andrew Yeung (Murder Mystery) and Anders Sorensen (Heat Wave) for winning the merch from our two recent Patreon events! Also the amazing art in today's thumbnail was created by Elliot Rose for an article by Meg Hopkins about Cracking The Cryptic in The Oxford Blue newspaper. The article is here:
www.theoxfordblue.co.uk/2021/...
Mark tried this puzzle just this morning and he's instantly told me I need to do it in a video... it features a ruleset we've not seen before and it is magnificent. It's called "Quad Sum Sudoku" and it's by udukos. Give the puzzle a try at the link below:
app.crackingthecryptic.com/su...
Rules:
Normal sudoku rules apply. Three of the four digits touching a circle sum to the fourth digit. Not all circles are necessarily given.
PS Thanks to everyone who has joined Simon's livestreams of The Witness! Episode 4 is planned for Thursday evening at 10pm UK time - we'll announce it on Twitter (@crypticcracking).
PPS If we manage to reach 400,000 subscribers then we'll be releasing a video where Mark and Simon answer community questions! Please email us at crackingthecryptic@gmail.com if you have a good question for them :)
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Play the puzzle in the video by clicking the link under the video (above). We are building a website which will allow you to enter your own sudoku puzzles into the software and this is coming soon!
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▶ABOUT US◀
Hi! We're Simon Anthony and Mark Goodliffe, two of the UK's most enthusiastic puzzle solvers. We have both represented the UK at the World Sudoku Championships and the World Puzzle Championships.
Thank you for watching!
Simon and Mark
@clichexo624 2 жыл бұрын
I love how Simon explains literally everything. Especially the reasons why boxes can't be certain numbers; because as someone who has played a lot of basic sudoku, I'm still new to all these fancy rules and puzzles, I like knowing the logic behind things. Thank You Simon!!
@jehr_ 2 жыл бұрын
I also really appreciate it. It gives us a moment to catch up and follow along on his journey to solving these puzzles. And the journey is my favorite part. These setters make such incredible puzzles.
@xXVintersorgXx 2 жыл бұрын
I've learned a lot about how to solve regular sudoku by watching these videos
@TheMeanderingduck6 2 жыл бұрын
Simon struggling to see how the 4 breaks in the center square when all he needs to do is realize 5 can't go anywhere is my mood.
@rizka7945 2 жыл бұрын
He has noticed it afterwards and added an speech bubble about it at 28:30.
@Jackleber 2 жыл бұрын
I was shouting "where does a 5 go?" through that whole explanation he was giving. The word bubble made me laugh.
@lennonpuls1878 2 жыл бұрын
I was definitely yelling at the screen about that one! Haha, I noticed it right away. That being said, he sees just about everything else before me :)
@cainau 2 жыл бұрын
I ended up singing several verses of a little song called "Where do you put the 5?"
@maverickstclare3756 2 жыл бұрын
Simon does like his depth first searches. I find it quite fascinating. Like at 36:30 when the 4 is placed in box 2, he doesn't do the elimination on Box 3 but down to Boxes 8 & 9 and then off in another direction. This bites him at 42:55 when trying to figure Box 1. Whereas I do the local effects first and probably miss the depth effects. I sometimes think "we would work so well together", as I'm sure many here do.
@LardoCulo 2 жыл бұрын
Wuhuuu!!! I won!!! 🥳🥳 very well pronounced Simon! And Mark is quite right, I’m Danish. And an immense thank you to grkles for making that awesome hunt. And I guess, just a big thank you to all this sudoku community: watchers, solvers, setters and content creators. What a bland life it would be without you all.
@myverypersonalstuff 2 жыл бұрын
Hjertelig tillykke med din triumf i puslespiljagten! Jeg vil bare fortælle dig, at det stadig generer mig, at Bismarck stjal Slesvig-Holsten fra dit land. Vi flatlandere (mener danskerne og hollænderne) bør fastholde vores solidaritet i alle spørgsmål, ikke kun ost.
@margaretmcnarry4298 2 жыл бұрын
Congratulations, Anders! Well done!
@fakjbf3129 2 жыл бұрын
I am definitely looking forwards to seeing what new puzzles other people can make with this rule set, so many possibilities.
@KaiSteinbach 2 жыл бұрын
Wonderful new rule set, Anders. Thank you so much! !!
@poetcindylynn 2 жыл бұрын
Jeps! Og stort tillykke til dig.
@gmaasry 2 жыл бұрын
At 28:20 of the video, Simon proved for the first time a suspicion I've had for the past year. Me yelling at the screen DOES HELP.
@stephenjames2951 2 жыл бұрын
Still can hardly believe the perseverance on yesterday’s puzzle. Fifty minutes to first digit
@gokuryu 2 жыл бұрын
I gave up on yesterday puzzle viewing. Way too hard for my brain.
@spelldaddy5386 2 жыл бұрын
41:32 "if this is an eight, you can double one six it!" lmao the funniest thing i've heard all day
@RasperHelpdesk 2 жыл бұрын
The instructions say "not all circles are necessarily given", meaning there might or might not be a spot where a circle could be placed, and that gave me a really interesting thought. Picture a Kropki sudoku with the rule "not all dots are given". You solve it all the way to a deadly pattern at the end. Up to that point there are no places where a dot would be placed but not given. Then one of the two solutions to the deadly pattern would make a Kropki dot. Since the instructions state "not all dots are given", you know there MUST be a spot where one fits but isn't given, and that resolves the final pattern.
@cbear7996 2 жыл бұрын
The only way that would work is if there are no other places dots could be but aren’t in the rest of the puzzle
@wariolandgoldpiramid 2 жыл бұрын
I don't think the negative constraint was ever used like that. And I'm not sure if solvers would like that phrasing being taken advantage of like that.
@blahfasel2000 2 жыл бұрын
@@wariolandgoldpiramid Phrase it as "some Kropki dots aren't given" then.
@wariolandgoldpiramid 2 жыл бұрын
@@blahfasel2000 Yeah, I was thinking that. It would take away from the surprise of having to do that at the end, but be more precise, which is important for puzzles.
@thoughtbyte 2 жыл бұрын
@@wariolandgoldpiramid there was one puzzle like that on logic masters germany but the instructions kind of insinuated that. it was cute.
@ItsLevicon 2 жыл бұрын
When Simon was looking at the 279 triple I started shouting at the screen "He's going to say the 2 needs to play gooseberry!"
@clarematthews4051 2 жыл бұрын
Currently the link says the puzzle doesn't exist. These puzzles are hard enough when they do exist! I guess it will exist by the morning making for a challenging breakfast.
@PhilBoswell 2 жыл бұрын
It's working for me now.
@TheFrogfather1 2 жыл бұрын
@@PhilBoswell A Schrödinger puzzle perhaps?
@Swisswavey 2 жыл бұрын
The link is broken for me too, and that's after a restart so shouldn't be a caching issue
@conexant51 2 жыл бұрын
These games at which we're gazing Simon's solving skills are amazing even the rules are new he never says 'adieu' he's fast and deserves our praising
@Zardox2 2 жыл бұрын
Was I the only one yelling "no place for the 5!!!", until the pop-up comment made me LOL?! 🤣🤣🤣😳🤣🤣🤣
@JakeRoeder 2 жыл бұрын
I was laughing quite hard when the bubble came up. So great.
@dkm148 2 жыл бұрын
Laughed out loud at 41:30 when Simon said "If that's an 8, you can double 1 6 it." as if that's a common phrase. Great puzzle and solve!
@malutj 2 жыл бұрын
Loved it. Solved the full thing without having to reference the video. That doesn't happen often...
@Raven-Creations 2 жыл бұрын
It's a red-letter day in the history of sudoku. I can't begin to express how much I enjoyed this. It's a fascinating new rule, and what a beautiful example to introduce it. I particularly like the way the rule is completely in the spirit of sudoku - simple to express, yet leading to very interesting logic. Having reduced the central cell to 1, I resolved box 5 by noting that 7 and 8 had to be totals, and 7 was limited to three cells R4C4, R4C6, and R5C6 because it couldn't be in a shared cell. I could rule out the first two, because they couldn't go with the 2, so it had to be in R5C6 with the 2 above it. This placed the 4 next to the 2, which forced an 83 pair next to the 1 & 4, and a 59 pair below. The 8 had to go in the corner, with the 3 below (which resolved the 35 pair in box 6). After the solve, I had important stuff to do, so I decided to investigate how many ways there are to arrange box 5, if one had chosen to start there (i.e. with no additional constraints such as 7 & 8 can't go in the bottom row). I was amazed to find there are 80 valid permutations. Obviously, because of the diagonal symmetry, the same solution will appear twice, but that's still 40 different ways. I expected it to be much more constrained. Imposing the constraints for 7, 8, and 2, brings the total down to just two, where the 5 & 9 may be swapped.
@JakeRoeder 2 жыл бұрын
It never ceases to amaze me how quickly both Simon and Mark seem to assimilate new concepts and spot some of the potential trip-ups in the way the puzzle is set. His immediate spotting of what can happen across box borders is not something I even considered for a moment with the 6 in box 8's placement. That led me astray with the possibilities in box 6, which would have left me with a broken puzzle. Bravo!
@FirstLast-gw5mg 2 жыл бұрын
26:05 simpler here is that once you put 4 in the middle, you can't put 5 anywhere except the corner cell either. 4+5 is 9 already and adding the 3rd cell will give a sum that's too large.
@wariolandgoldpiramid 2 жыл бұрын
Wow, Simon was so focused on the new logic, he completely missed basic sudoku for a long time. The "4" in the central box resolved the 47 pair, and the "3" resolved the 35 pair, but he kept ignoring it. That was some yelling at the screen 🤣
@stefanhermansen8975 2 жыл бұрын
@petrus it's just his way of pretending to be human.
@TheEricthefruitbat 2 жыл бұрын
My frustration level was so high, I considered stepping away for a week again. However, a brand new constraint means I will give him a pass on this one. That, and I realize how much pressure there is to doing a live solve with people watching, and trying to explain EVERY step he takes. I do wish they would have like two days of the week where they assume watchers know the basics and the secret and simple math.
@timothypickett9138 2 жыл бұрын
Also, it’s good to remember that those kinds of resolutions are often not part of the solving path - they are side diversions that only clean up the grid but don’t give any more gas. Simon is super experienced and will have a strong idea of where he needs to look next in many cases and will just go and focus his attention there.
@AvatarBowler 2 жыл бұрын
@@timothypickett9138 You’re right, but it’s clear (at least in this case) that resolving the 4-8 pair in box 3 would’ve shown that a 4 goes in the bottom-right corner of box 1. Cleaning up like that also can help with determining where digits are restricted in other boxes in other puzzles too. 🤷♀️
@curtissumner8578 2 жыл бұрын
45:07. Utterly Brilliant is absolutely right, what a quirky and nicely limited restriction. And the given digits gave just the right nudge in the right direction to figure out the main mechanic and get started. Fantastic puzzle!
@andrewyeung8088 2 жыл бұрын
It's my lucky day! :) A massive thank you to everyone who worked on the incredible Murder Mystery hunt, and an equally massive thank you to Mark, Simon, and the community, who have reignited my passion for sudoku over the past year and a half.
@ILikeEpicurus 2 жыл бұрын
26:30 more elegant way: where does the 5 go? (28:22 never mind, you found it. Why didn't I watch the whole video before opening mouth??? Answer to self: you can't, it's again a jaw dropping solve)
@llKirosll 2 жыл бұрын
don't be so hard on your self. my hands are itching to comment the same thing ^^x
@luluviolin141 2 жыл бұрын
Just wanted to say, I'm thankful someone like you exists.
@shadeblackwolf1508 2 жыл бұрын
It's almost like you've taken the circle out of square arrows.
@afrayedknot81 2 жыл бұрын
Congrats Udukos! Loved this puzzle.
@donnierhodes3465 2 жыл бұрын
Moriartyesk, as you said is the perfect description for it.
@ro_thing 2 жыл бұрын
maybe a bit of an odd comment for you but my dad passed away recently and your videos have been useful for helping me relax, so thanks for that
@bajjanitor 2 жыл бұрын
I solved the middle by seeing that there have to be a 1 and a 2 in each of the two given 6 circles, so there was a cross in box 5 seen by either a 1 or a 2, relegating one of them to a corner. And you can't add 3 numbers up to 6, 7 or 8 without including a 1 so 1 would have to be in the middle. With those given positions there is only so many ways to add up to 9, 8, 7, 6 so the position for each number forced themselves down to a given 1, 6, 8 and two different possibilities for the final 6 numbers.
@V3n0mTV 2 жыл бұрын
If Simon needs more than 15 minutes for a puzzle I don't even need to try it. 🤣
@leojs5673 2 жыл бұрын
I started with my limit being 15 and slooowly worked my way up to 30 haha
@seantaft3853 2 жыл бұрын
In his defense, he also has to explain to us, the audience, the logic on the why things work and don't work. I know this video is an example of this.
@joern122 2 жыл бұрын
what I did in the beginning was: Open the puzzle try to start... If you get stuck put the video on until you find something Simon doesn´t see... stop the video and keep going until you get stuck again.... continue the viedo until you are ahead again... If you can´t get ahead of Simon, just enjoy the video :-)
@GalacticGod 2 жыл бұрын
What an interesting puzzle. Great job!
@Nomnomlick 2 жыл бұрын
He overcomplicated the middle box so much. Noticing right away that 78 must go in the top 6 cells but cannot share a 2x2 makes the whole process way easier.
@SolverTom 2 жыл бұрын
I just asked can 1 go anywhere but the middle, which breaks it rather quickly, even without the digits on the right
@nomore6167 2 жыл бұрын
Simon really seems to like making deductions using the most complicated processes possible.
@thecookiemaker 2 жыл бұрын
I noticed the middle box couldn't be 4 because both 5 and 6 have to go in the corner because neither can be in a quad with a 4.
@gerhardkorf4591 2 жыл бұрын
I had an interesting solve for this puzzle, for some funny reason I was drawn in on how to solve the box 5. So without any digits in the grid, with a few iterations, it came out that box 5 only has 2 solves (basically 1 and it's mirror with 6 always in the bottom right and 8 top left). From there I needed to figure out which of the two and with a few more limitations on where 123 can go in box 6,8,9 you can get it. Obviously a sort of bification but still very interesting logic on what is possible in box 5. So without any other digits or pencil marks, the 1 can only go in the middle. :)
@oliolion 2 жыл бұрын
really interesting ruleset. I felt it was very useful noting that every dot must be touching at least two cells from 1-3, then just you can colour in the 1-3s like a demi-parity puzzle
@JusteazyGames 2 жыл бұрын
Not sound logic. 4/4/1/9 is a possibility for any circles bordering a box.
@oliolion 2 жыл бұрын
@@JusteazyGames please delete your comment. It makes me look stupid
@JusteazyGames 2 жыл бұрын
@@oliolion No worries friend. Smart people make mistakes all the time. It's the stupid who try to hide their mistakes. 😉🤣
@samlawson5503 2 жыл бұрын
Haven't watched the full thing yet so there is no doubt more to come but just wanted to concur that the logic from 12:40 to 14:18 is utterly amazing. Brilliant setting hats off udukos. Edit - the way the result of that logic works with box 3/6/9 up until 17:20, brilliant smooth-flowing resolution.
@leojs5673 2 жыл бұрын
CTC coming to rescue me from boredom once again, today especially as I’ve just arrived to the hospital with corona 😬 not feeling terrible but it is like a really bad flu, so you guys’ videos will - as usual - play a big role in keeping me entertained!
@CrackingTheCryptic 2 жыл бұрын
Get well soon Leo.
@leojs5673 2 жыл бұрын
@@CrackingTheCryptic thanks!!
@doncook4097 2 жыл бұрын
Kick that bug fast. Prayers
@myverypersonalstuff 2 жыл бұрын
You go on my prayer sick list. Please keep us posted on your progress to full restored health.
@phg3646 2 жыл бұрын
Get well!
@anachromium 2 жыл бұрын
Wow, took me about an hour to get my head wrapped around! Great puzzle! And it's always such a joy watching you guys solve these beauties!
@clarematthews4051 2 жыл бұрын
Hoorah! The link worked. The fun of solving that was worth the wait. Great puzzle and the rule was an excellent invention. Kudos to udokus. Another stunner.
@sampathkumar-ej7xl 2 жыл бұрын
Solving one of Udukos, Nehme, Qodec puzzles gives one a sense of achievement. What a super group.
@alyamkinaliza_hihihaha 2 жыл бұрын
I wanted to scream at my screen so badly so that Simon could figure out that 4 isn’t in the centre of the box 5…… very interesting sudoku, gotta try to solve it by myself
@masterfiddler11 2 жыл бұрын
Always love your enthusiasm, Simon! Great entertainment as always, thanks for sharing your positivity.
@constanza1648 2 жыл бұрын
28:27 All the combinations 1-2-4; 1-3-4 and 2-3-4 share 3 different digits other than the 4: 1, 2, and 3. And you only have place for two of them. My first guess when I see that disposition was 1 (or 2, but you eliminate the posibility right from the begining) in the central square. Proving that was way more difficult!
@-Solaris 2 жыл бұрын
Notifikation for the stream worked 👍 Noted and hopefuly not to tired at 11pm (my time)
@deathocats 2 жыл бұрын
Nice! The solving of that center box, and placing the 4 in box 2, are the kind of things I watch this channel for now! Mind you I watched my first CtC video because of the term "miracle sudoku".
@deathocats 2 жыл бұрын
It felt a lot like an arrow sudoku, but with a constraint on all the lengths, and most importantly without the constraint, and comfort, of knowing at the outset which space held the sum digit!
@stephentosh7997 2 жыл бұрын
How to quickly deduce the centre cell is 1 or 2 with just box 5: consider the 2x2 square to the upper-right and bottom-left. If the centre is not part of the sum for both, then we would need 6 unique squares adding to
@neilturton1427 2 жыл бұрын
A wonderful puzzle. Thanks, Simon. I have a nice way to solve the centre cell: The 7 goes in row 4 or 5 by sudoku so it goes next to one of the top two dots. That dot must be 7=1+2+4 so the centre cell must be one of those digits. It can't be 2 by sudoku. We need to put 5 and 6 somewhere and only row 6 col 6 is not next to a dot so we need to put at least one of them next to a dot. But neither 5 nor 6 goes on the same dot as 4 or 7 so the centre cell cannot be 4 or 7. Therefore the center cell is 1.
@Jodawo 2 жыл бұрын
Seeing Simon going through this in the beginning I'm thinking to myself what did Mark's grid look like? Imagining all the possibilities being pencil marked in.
@samplename5159 2 жыл бұрын
I don't have to imagine, i spent ages Goodliffing the central box to start and proved there's only one option for the central square :) Eventually i did get the solution now i get to double the fun following Simon's solve is in the correct/better order.
@ChilapaOfTheAmazons 2 жыл бұрын
I pencil-marked the central box and it helped me solve it very quickly because it showed me that one of the two top sums was 7 and the other 8. Much quicker than the deduction that Simon did. 😜
@ChilapaOfTheAmazons 2 жыл бұрын
Same thing in box 2: pencil marking it allowed a much quicker and more straightforward reasoning to figure out the values of the sums shared between box 2 and 3.
@ModusTrollens91 2 жыл бұрын
I think a simpler way to break into the central box is to realize that sudoku forces both 7 and 8 in the upper two sums. From there you know that they are the totals of those sums, and that they have to share a 1. That ends up reducing a lot of the exhaustive searching.
@AquaShibby3000 2 жыл бұрын
Nice to see my favorite The Witness streamer tackling sudoku puzzles :P
@andrewholaway4113 2 жыл бұрын
I really hope more setters adopt this rule. It is one of the few advanced Sudoku variants that immediately clicked for me and I feel like this type of puzzle could be my daily!
@pmsteven1 2 жыл бұрын
At 28:00, a piece of logical that helps here that I don’t think Simon has ever used is the fact that the sum of three different digits sum must include two digits from 123. This constrains box 5 a lot and might have simplified the logic.
@glum_hippo 2 жыл бұрын
Quad sums is not a new rule set, but it is definitely under-appreciated. I bet there is a SVS puzzle for it!
@glum_hippo 2 жыл бұрын
So glad you did this puzzle, Simon. it's fantastic!
@bloodgain 2 жыл бұрын
My gut instinct on that center square was "you're going to need the 1 to make all the sums work, aren't you? So it has to be in the center." But I don't think I could have proven it to myself any faster than Simon did.
@MarushiaDark316 2 жыл бұрын
That's a really beautiful new variant. Love it.
@hedgd361 2 жыл бұрын
I was yellling at my screen when you were doing that centre square... job well done. I’ve subbed
@ncg195 2 жыл бұрын
Awesome puzzle, awesome video. It's rare that I see things faster than Simon in these videos, so I was pretty proud of myself when he was trying to disprove placing the 4 in the center square. I immediately realized that if the center square was a 4 that he couldn't place both the 5 and the 6 in the box without creating a sum of at least 10. I was all set to type a long explanation of my reasoning in the comments, but then at about 28:25 my own logic was summed up on the screen for me!
@Agent-ic1pe 2 жыл бұрын
26:34 a simple way to demonstrate it is to consider where you can place 5. It has to be in one of the sums. 4 + x + y cannot equal 5, and 4 + 5 + x > 9, so it's impossible and thus 4 can't be in the middle. Great video, I enjoyed watching!
@tjarsun 2 жыл бұрын
This was a rough start, but then it became so much fun! Loved it
@allikin75 2 жыл бұрын
Great puzzle! If you think about it, it's just a bunch of 3 cell arrows in loops, but it would be hard to draw in a good way, so I love this way of representing it.
@teruokun-us 2 жыл бұрын
Yay! Got it in 23:17! This is a fun variant that definitely adds some fun new derived/secondary rules. Once you’ve found them, it actually goes rather quick
@ericpraline1302 2 жыл бұрын
Neat idea, and an easier solve than I thought, although I think I got away with forgetting that digits in the quads could repeat.
@gobsvensen 2 жыл бұрын
An alternate way for the starting logic on box 5 is to start with the 7-8 in box 6. It puts both of them into the sums in row 4 and 5 in box 5. The can't both be part of the same sum and must be the totals of their sums, so they need to be separated by column 5, and both need a 1 so it must be shared in c6, the 7 needs a 2-4, one of which is shared by the 8, making that a 1-2-5 or a 1-3-4. row 6 in box 5 is from 3-5-6-9 and from there you can figure out how the digits are shared
@Poet13xRatedRKO 2 жыл бұрын
I needed very long for this one (about an hour), but interesting rule. Also at 26:30 is there a more elegant way of demonstrating this? Of course! You can't put 4 in the middle because 4 can't go on the same white dot with 5 or 6 so you would have to put 5 and 6 in the corner of the box which won't work. One thing which I learned about 3-wide arrows in the same box is that they sum up to 6-9 AND the second lowest digit is 2 or 3.
@tychoderkommentator2989 2 жыл бұрын
You can even disprove the 3 in the middle without the sudoku of the 7, which was what I did in the very beginning when I saw the 3 white dot squares cross in the middle, but it took me ages and I needed a paper to write my thought process down (which was mainly comparing all possible triplet triple sum combinations which all contain 3, but also only share 2 numbers)
@KyleBaran90 2 жыл бұрын
This was a fun puzzle to observe because of the novel ruleset. I think it's interesting because you're forced to consider familiar sums in a different way than normal
@markmcb42 2 жыл бұрын
The key for me was noticing that 7 and 8 had to be in the top 6 cells in box 5. So, the top 6 cells came from 7,1,4,2 and 8,1,4,3. The two sums share 1 and 4, which left 5,6,9 for the bottom three cells in box 5. Very fun puzzle to solve!
@nienke7713 2 жыл бұрын
32:41 you can know where the 4 must go, because the 7 and 8, which both need the 4, can't go in the bottom 2 cells, and if they'd be in the shared blue/yellow cell, then that rules out the 4 from that very cell (and also the fact that 8 can only be made 1 under the constraints of that cell, so it couldn't possibly be in a shared cell)
@Kinada 2 жыл бұрын
Fantastic puzzle. Took me two and a half hours with some breaks and distractions in there so I'd say I found it pretty hard. I started out working out the whole right hand side of the grid with boxes 3,6,9 and that gave me enough to fill in most of the central box.
@Coyotek4 2 жыл бұрын
48:43 in total ... I spent about 20 minutes on this, getting nowhere, left, came back later, finally saw how to truly begin, and eventually found my way to the end. I'm very happy that I was able to make it to the end on this one. Tough puzzle! (And I *love* the ruleset; I look forward to seeing it used more in the future!)
@penningmeestercgkdelft9159 2 жыл бұрын
What a beautiful puzzle and solve again. I am astonished how many well-working new ideas for clue types appear within all these puzzles over and over again... A sort of square arrows this time, basically. ;-) And indeed: the 4 in the central square could be straightforwardly ruled out by observing that the 5 could not go anywhere. By the way: is there any chance that there will be another norinori-type sudoku once more on CtC? I have to say I really liked that one, somewhere in the beginning of 2021, I believe. A nice combination of a pencil shading-type puzzle, parity and killer sudoku, and it was really something different than usual.
@lesternielson9280 2 жыл бұрын
Super awesome puzzle! struggled at first and almost gave up, but finally cracked it! Now I'll watch Simon make all of the same discoveries in half the time...lol
@bristolrovers27 2 жыл бұрын
Excellent puzzle and interesting to see if it's a one off or gives up a whole new variant
@robfarquharson 2 жыл бұрын
Don't know if anyone else noticed this, but to solve for 1 in the central position in box 5 you consider the purple and blue areas. They share only the middle number which was proved lower than 6 so not a sum. That means there are 5 smaller adding numbers and 2 sums, and the middle adding number is counted twice. The smallest total of adding numbers is 15 (1 to 5) and if you double count the middle number then the highest you can go is 1 or 2 to get 16 or 17. 17 is the highest you can get for 2 sums (8 and 9) so the middle number is bound to 1 or 2. At this point in the solve the 2 was already taken at the end of row 5 so only a 1 can be put there.
@sirqueson4889 2 жыл бұрын
I was able to solve this one after getting 3 or 4 clues from you! This is fun :) Thanks for the treat
@HonkIfYouLoveBeer 2 жыл бұрын
I really, really, really liked this ruleset! Would love to see more
@OlafDoschke 2 жыл бұрын
I solved the central box this way: the given 6es limit the cells for 6 to the lower right 2x2, and you can easily rule out 6 in the center-cell. It's also quite simple to see 6 has to go to the lower right corner cell. Now, the 3 digits of the lower row of box 6 have to go into the first two rows of box 5. That means, 7 and 8 must be the totals. The 5 can't go in the top 2 rows, so 7 and 8 are accompanied by 1,2,3,4, which sum to 10. 7+8 is 15, so they need to share digits summing to 5. With 2 and 3 shared, you'd need a second 2 to sum to 7, so the shared digits between 7 and 8 must be 1 and 4. We already know for a while that 9 and 5 go with the 6 in the bottom row and so the 1 has to be shared with all sums, because 5 and 4 have to be separated, unless 5 could go in the corner where 6 already is. Not very elegant, too, but slightly simpler than checking every digit. The major points are the 478 triple has to be in the two top rows and the fact 1,2,3,4 have to be with them means they share 2 cells summing to 5, because 1+2+3+4 = 10 and 7+8 = 15 means 5 is the overlap. More generally, the sums game is giving you totals of 2 cells, so the 4 cell problem can often be split into 2 2-cell problems in the 2x3 or even 8 cell regions all confined in the same box, at least.
@Marsaw 2 жыл бұрын
A lot of this logic actually reminds me of Minesweeper with all the logic around overlapping regions. Super cool!
@bdfornever 2 жыл бұрын
For the center square: if you argue that the 3-sum of every digit in (6,7,8,9) contains at least two of the digits(1,2,3) (otherwise you have 1 + 4 + 5 > 9), at least two of those must be in the overlapping cells, and oe must be the 1 (otherwise you'd have two sum-boxes without a 1, another impossibility), the case (1,2,3) in the three overlapping boxes can be excluded, because that would imply a 6 in the top left corner. That in itself isnÄ't enough to solve the box, but gives a good start on the center :)
@Skycroft1000 2 жыл бұрын
Really cool logic on this puzzle. I like this rule. You have to be super careful about dots on the edge of a box though.
@deszeldra 2 жыл бұрын
Solved it! Went a bit faster through box 5 by thinking about where the larger digits could go rather than the central square. Love the logic of this new type of puzzle!
@bearcubdaycare 2 жыл бұрын
Good fun watching the solve.
@harrygill3387 2 жыл бұрын
love your videos please suggest more puzzles makers!
@57thorns 2 жыл бұрын
At 21:06 I looked at the 478 in box 6. Inside a cage, 7 and 8 can never share the same dot, so they have to be in r4/r5 c4/c7. This forces the 9 down into row 6. The 6 could never be in r5c5 because is has to be surrounded by 1239 and it would have 7 such neighbours. 6 can also not share a dot with 7 or 8 in the same cage, so 6 and 9 are both on the bottom row. One of them has to be on the dot between c4r5 and c5r6. This places 78 as the only candidates in r4c4. And then on from there.
@pascalhaering 2 жыл бұрын
Yes nice, I found the same logic and came here to write the same comment. You beat me to it... ;-) (You got a little typo though, 7 and 8 are locked to r4/r5 c4/c6 - not c7)
@alienrenders 2 жыл бұрын
I did this differently and is actually needed by the central box and it's much easier. You can just concentrate on the central box and ask where the 1's and 2's go. You have 3 sums. They all need a 1 except for 234=9. The 1 MUST be shared by at least two of the white dots. So you know the 1 goes on the shared cells (the cells that have more than one colour). If the center cell is not a 1, the only digits that can be shared by at least three sums is 234. 2 is not possible because there's a 2 on the row (though you can figure that out by colouring the 1's and 2's even if you don't know where they go). If it's a 3 or 4, that means the 1 can only be shared between two sums and the 2 must go with 234=9, but the 7 also need the 2 (we know there's a 7 on the white dots because of the 7 on row 5). That breaks the puzzle. So the center cell must be 1. At this point, we know the 2 goes in one of the corner cells of the center box (ie. it is not shared) and must go with 7. The other two sums have a 1, but no 2. That leaves 135=9 and 134=8 along with 124=7. From here, we see that 3 and 4 are used twice. So those are the shared numbers. 4+3+1=8, so 8 goes in the top left cell of the center box. 27 goes on the right side and 59 at the bottom to be resolved later.
@koenth2359 2 жыл бұрын
At 18:34 consider box 4. By sudoku 7 and 8 are coerced to participate in at least one sum. But since 1+2+4=7 and 1+3+4=8 are the only way to make these sums, they have to go into cells that have only 1 sum, so into columns 4 and 6. Now R45C5 must contain the common digits 1 and 4 from these sums. The remaining digits 569 must go into row 6. If 6 is in a sum, it would require a 2 in row 5, which cannot go there, so 6 goes into R6C6. 5 and 9 in R6C45 require 1 and 3 in R5C45. This fixes the 1 into the centre (R5C5), and all of box 4 except for the (59)-pair in R6C45.
@PaulVictorey 2 жыл бұрын
20:26 There is an easier way to break in the central square. First, you can rule 6 out of the blue or yellow squares because they would align with the sum containing the 126 in box 8 and force a 126 into the right column of box 2, which has no valid way to create sums with the 279 in box 3. At that point, you have to consider how you can distribute the digits 7, 8, and 9 in box 5. Of your purple, blue, and yellow squares, each of them can contain no more than one digit from 789. The question is if they can contain less. Initially it might look possible to put a 9 in r6c6, but doing so would force the purple square to be a 1236 and then the blue square sum is broken, since 145 would be the lowest digits it could contain and their sum is 10. So each colored box contains exactly one 7, 8, or 9. This puts the 9 in blue since the only available positions for "high" cells see 7 and 8, which locks the 6 into r6c6 (since you already know you can't make purple 1236 and you just ruled out 1269 as well). Once you know r6c6 is a 6, you use "the secret" and realize that the 8 cells sum to 39, while the three squares each sum to 14, 16, and 18 respectively. This ultimately lets you calculate the "overlap" in the three cells that are seen in multiple sums, and you can make a lot of progress from there.
@linesthatinterlace 2 жыл бұрын
Lots of use of the pigeonhole principle here, which I liked. Great job Simon on a tricky puzzle - took me nearly twice as long as you.
@DoddiP123 2 жыл бұрын
Excellent puzzle, solved it in 34:16. I think there was a much easier way to get the 1 in the central cell of box 5. Due to the 7 and 8 in box 6, the 7 and 8 in box 5 must both be part of a sum, and obviously they can't be part of the same sum so they are the "summed to" digit in the top two circles of box 5. Therefore the central digit must be either 1, 2 or 4, since those are the only digts that can sum to both 7 and 8. 2 is ruled out by seeing the 2 in box 6 and then 4 can be quickly eliminated since he breaks the 5 in box 5. So the only remaining digit is 1.
@GeneralYouri 2 жыл бұрын
It was very fun watching you play with this new ruleset, especially around that box5 ;) (with mark levels of bifurcation!) Apart from the easy way to eliminate 4 from r5c5 which was edited into the video, I find the following a pretty good logical approach to the box as a whole: First off, in general for dots entirely contained within a box there are pretty big constraints. For example, the highest number that can ever be used as part of the sum is 6, meaning that 789 are only ever present as the sum itself, and every dot therefore contains *at most* one of 789 (and it could contain neither of these only in the case where 1+2+3=6). Now, around the 18 minute mark, 478 are all found in r6c789. This forces all three digits onto the white dots in r45 box5, but by previous logic that gives us two digits that may only be used as the sum. This means one dot sums to 7, the other sums to 8, *and* you can't put either in r45c5. To sum to 7 we have to use 124 as the video also does, to sum to 8 we can do 125 or 134 (getting killer sudoku vibes). This means a repeat 1, and either 2 or 4 is also repeated; r45c5 are now 124. This affects the box8 dot by forcing the 1 in c4, and the 2 must now be in c5, resolving the box5 shared digits to 14 and thus the 8 sum to 134. Which of the dots is which can be determined around the same time (I did it after working on c6 and the two dots between box23); you'll have one dot with 27 on the side and another with 38 on the side.
@joekerr3638 2 жыл бұрын
Beautiful solve
@EmonEconomist 2 жыл бұрын
Finished in 32:39 - at first I felt stuck but once I got going it all came together fairly(ish) quickly! Really enjoyed this rule set, I hope to see more!
@Tfin 2 жыл бұрын
The Witness came up roughly 22 hours ago, and says it doesn't start for about 23 hours. I'm pretty sure I'll be busy when it does go live, so it's going to jump two days when I refresh the page tomorrow night.
@matthewgiallourakis7645 2 жыл бұрын
Such a graceful ruleset, it's surprising that it isn't already common.
@VeritasUnae 2 жыл бұрын
Really incredible new rule set, but now I'm just itching to see how a positive constraint of all dots given might play out, haha!
@CheatahX 2 жыл бұрын
I was facepalming from 24:09 to 28:21, thinking it would be very easy using the 5. There's no place putting the 5 in the center box. Thank goodness he added the comment in post-production. We have all been there though, being derailed by something very complicated, when there's an easier solution available.
@samplename5159 2 жыл бұрын
The way to start with the central box is "if 1 is not in the center it can only be shared by 2 quads so one of the quads is 2349 and the central square has to be 12349", now again "if 1 is not in the center it's shared and one of the symmetrical 6+1239 quads will rule out 2", then "9 doesn't work because 78 shroedinger cell" then "top left can't be 2349 because two other quads need 1" then "if 1 is not in the center the quad opposite to it uses 1, one of 34 and a minimum of 5, that adds up to minimum 9 and it's broken because 9 was used in the opposite quad". Central square is 1. Helps to think of the quads as uncertain arrows, then it's obvious that each contained in a box has to be 2349 or use 1.
@graysonking16 2 жыл бұрын
Was screaming your five hint in my head for a good 5 minutes. Very happy you added the extra text box there! Haha
@ChJuHu93 2 жыл бұрын
20:00 to 30:00 if 1 is not part of one dot that dot is filled with 2349, leaving 5678 for the rest and forcing a 1258 dot with 2 being in the center.
@stefanhrafnjonsson500 2 жыл бұрын
Hi all. I am new to this channel and I do like it a lot. So I have not been able to browse through all previous comments to see if I am repeating them. Simon is brilliant and very clear in his speach. Does anyone else increase the speed to 2x while watching his videos, as I often do? The only side effect is that he sounds like even more clever that way :) but that it is anyway difficult to be more clever than he is at a normal speed :)
@susanne5803 2 жыл бұрын
I really tried because I like the circle digits and circle sums puzzles so much. I got as far as realizing 1239 had to be around the 6s. Then I went back to the video and the tried and trusted "first you a bit then me" method ... I would nevertheless like more puzzles like this! Thank you very much! Edit: 26:35 4 in the center can't work because of a much simpler logic: where could the 5 go? The "bench"-cell is occupied by the 6, and 4-5 are two digits already summing to 9, not even needing a third digit. Edit no 2: 28:44 Nice! I thought of something you came only up with during your edit! Thank you for giving me my "smart moment" 😁!
@eytanz 2 жыл бұрын
TFW I solve the puzzle, then watch Simon do it and realise 5 minutes into his solve that I made a logic mistake that just happened not to matter :(
@stumbling 2 жыл бұрын
Wow! Amazing how different that feels when they are basically hidden arrows. Difficult to describe but some of the logic seemed completely new to me. I didn't time myself but after slowly chugging along I finished in around 90 minutes, which is pretty amazing for me as I rarely finish these (if at all) under 3 hours. Whatever difficulty this is it is perfect for my level, felt some resistance the whole way through but with some care I got through it.
@freakforall100 2 жыл бұрын
What a soorhing voice. Before i go to bed, i try to let simon make sense of things until my brain farts itself to sleep. best method yet
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