Thank You!!! As a nearly 20 year veteran archery tech, I really appreciate you helping dispel these myths and flat out mistakes!!! Especially in a time where there are so many on KZfaq just piling on the false BS or info with out giving the true groundwork as to why!!! Great job!!!

I’m 67 and I am just getting interested in archery. I really learn a lot by watching your videos. I would be lost without them. Thank you so much.

I agree 100% with you, my opinion is a lot of this gets started to help “bow shops” put money in their pockets. It’s kinda like a mechanic who knows that the person they are dealing with really doesn’t understand mechanics. I feel so many “bow shops” today take a guy or gal money and never really teach them about their equipment or archery itself. Sad really, archery is such a fun and peaceful thing to do. Thanks for keeping it real.

Congratulations on presenting one of the best Channels on this subject. Your enthusiasm is infectious. For what it's worth, when I first got into compound bows, as a 'rookie', I also expected full alignment meant 'full accuracy'.... until I learnt about what I now call "IBT". Quite a few years on, as a retired Engineer, with a keen interest in compound bow design/performance, I have been perplexed at the seemingly endless focus on peripheral issues, that can actually or might effect accuracy, but the single, by far most important fundamental factor, is rarely addressed. That factor is bow torque that is innate or integral to the specific bow design; hereinafter refered to as "Integral Bow Torque" or "IBT". Suffice to say, archers are well aware of the importance of proper technique in gripping, or should I say, supporting, the bow, so as to avoid torquing the riser and avoiding nock face pressure etc, but, ironically, IBT is regularly never mentioned at all, in bow reviews and bow selection in general. Archers and hunters who are not Engineers have sought to argue that IBT is not a problem, because it generates the same, consistant bow structure response, during each draw/ release cycle. This is profoundly misguided, frankly wrong, reasoning. The ability of any projectile based weapon to consistantly send the projectile to the point of aim, across all range distances, requires that the stucture supporting the energised projectile, supports, but does not impose lateral or vertical forces on the projectile throughout the projectiles path out of the supporting structure. In the case of compound bows, the key points of support for the projectile/arrow are the rest and nock point. It is therefore obvious, that maximum consistant accuracy can only occur when nock travel has neutral lateral and neutral vertical movement after release from full draw. Just as important is that the arrow rest does not exhibit lateral (horizontal plane) rotation, that can cause lateral forces on the arrow shaft. There is no avoiding these realities other than by seeking to deny them. It is of course possible to adjust nock height, rest position and, most significantly, lateral sight pin settings, to consistantly compensate for IBT at a specific range distance. However, because IBT causes the arrows lateral trajectory to gently curve away from the line of aim, lateral pin adjustment must be customised for a specifuc range distance! Thus, I can get any number of bows to group tightly, group after group, at say 20 yards. However, the IBT will always introduce innate, incrementally greater inaccuracy at any longer distances. Unfortunately, many archers/ hunters, failing to take IBT into account, spend many, many wasted hours on peripheral factors. Bow manufactures are aware of the importance of IBT but seek to ignore it. The only manufacturer I have observed openly, but briefly, acknowledging its importance was G5 Prime. So, to all my fellow compound bow enthusiasts, before you possibly spend more money and time on speculating over peripheral stuff, may I suggest you sweat on IBT and let bow manufacturers know you're expecting future models to have zero IBT and zero vertical nock travel after release from full draw.

On my Mathews, if you run the arrow straight through the Berger and 90 deg off the string, the nocking point ends up being dead center of the string. Great info.

Good info! But I wish I would have shimmed earlier. After 1 year of trying really everything with my Ventum 33 and not getting it really 100% tuned, I finally shimmed the top cam to the right just a bit and voila, fixed blade, field point, bare shaft in one group at 40 yards. Me: happy

One thing I start with AFTER setting the rest at manufacturers spec position is screwing in a long target stabilizer. Then with an arrow mounted on the string and in the rest I look from behind the bow and see if the arrow sitting on the string lines up with the stabilizer. Manufacturers will not machine a stabilizer mounting bushing that is not perfectly 90 degrees to the axis of the bow. I have used this system for 10-15 years and it’s so close to zero I very seldom have had to move the rest. I get bullet holes in paper 99% of the time on the first shot.

Nate, thanks for what you stress in Myth 5... So much "online cruft" goes straight to shimming (or other harsh tuning like yoke, etc). I totally agree with the grip being a huge issue (as you and I have discussed in my journey) but I would add to grip is anchor point. I recently discovered (and had run into this early in my bow learnings) that I was actually torquing the string on my face and also torquing the release. Both produce similar things as grip issues. Was maddening to figure out, especially the torquing the release.

Some really good info here, thank you. So many people don't give a second thought to a bow being set up to a manufacturer's spec as the design engineers intended. It was tested to those specs, it only makes sense. On a diferent note, I love the buss cables on my Bowtechs, tuning is a breeze.

Thanks for you good points of view. I found you are the first on KZfaq who verry straight of bow tuning priorities👍I started my archery with a PSE Stinger Max two years ago and now switched to a PSE Evo Evl 32 ( Verry nice bow) and first i shot my bow after installation of nokepoint, rest and scoop. I needed a short time for the adjustment of peep and drawlenght but a lot of days for the adjustment of the rest and scoop. Walk back and french tuning and finding of centershot. Now i got a bow which perfect adjusted to me. At least i tried a paper tuning just for fun and found a nice image with my homemade finished arrows (Carbon Hunter) I will say every archer have to investigate a little time to get a bow thats perfect to shoting for him. I am refering you have to shot your bow to gain experiance and a good adjustment for your own shoting 😉At least really, sorry for my englisch it is not my native language and so long from good old Germany 👋

Hahah how dare you bring up the grip "these bows are hard to tune, I used this grip on the other brand for 5 years with no issues, now on this new brand I have all kinds of issues. Let's not even start with my trigger hammering issue 🤣" on a side note the newer prime shims are very simple, more like the top hats than tiny shims. Great content 👍 keep up the great work

Great video as always! The nocking point being in the center of the string only works for bows like recent model Mathews and PSE's with symmetrical cams, adequate clearance off the shelf AND all of the other factors you mentioned being accounted for correctly. That point also tends to be 90 degrees from the Berger button hole on those models so same, same. I know I'm not the only one to come to that conclusion but I have definitely recommended it as a starting point so sorry for the questions ;)

Awesome explanation. I've been shooting, tuning and hunting with bows probably since before you were born...learned several things here. Never even heard the term "berger button" before.

Spot on ! I bought an elite envision got crazy noise and it’s not a bolt on accessory but I’ll figure it out. Shoots awesome! The basics are 90 percent of any aquired skill yet people focus on the 10 percent that creates minor improvement.

I love the presentation. You are a professional archer that THINK instead of Parroting others. I agree with all the your arrow dynamic and trajectory analysis which I as a Bear Bow shooter applied to my Bow especially the arrow rest shape, functionality and position on the bow shelf. Thanks

Like your incite you bring to your channel. I've watched several of your review videos of bows, as I'm just getting into the sport. I've been doing a lot of research and reading about everything I can, trying to eliminate getting into bad habits from the start. A video like this is a great help in that direction. A big concern I have is learning who to listen to because there is so much information and opinions out there and I'm just learning the sport and all the terminology that goes along with it. Thanks

I am very new to archery and have shot about 50 arrows or so in my life. I just got my first (second hand) bow a few days ago and noticed that, after installing my stabilizer, my arrow was pointing way off to the left. I got OBSESSED at trying to fix this problem and haven't even properly shot the bow because of it. Im SO happy to hear you say this as I can now let it go and just get to tuning my bow properly through paper tuning and not just eyesight. Thank you for giving my brain a break haha. I still think its strange as it seems that my bowstring is too far off to the right, making my arrows having to rest crazy close to the edge of the bow. It seems like somehow my string is offset to the right. I also noticed that my cable slide is rather far away from the string and when putting the cables into the slide, it makes my arrow point even further to the left. Weird...

Thank you for this video. Totally agree. I even shoot a Hind-sight to eliminate torque. I've gotten used to it and can tweak it if needed. My brother says I shoot my bow too much, but I'm learning how my bow handles. I notice a slight pull left in colder weather from warm Temps, so I can slightly adjust to fix torque as hunting season progresses.

Hoyt’s Binary Cam system is very simple to tune. I have a Ventum 33 and my bow tech simply swapped the small spacers on each side. Took a bow press, a small Hoyt “spacer” wrench and less than 4 minutes time. Shooting bullet holes. Can’t get much easier than that.

I had issues with the drop away rest on my bow. The little clamp slid on the down cable. One of these days I will just serve it in, but I'm getting pretty close to new string time so it works for now. Good video. I always focus on form before tuning with my 4H archery and JOAD kids. I've never even thought about tuning on the Genesis bows we use for NASP.

I think this is the first time i agree with you Nate. Both the power house and projectiles are equally important. To look only at the bow or the arrow is missing the other half of the equation.

Just shot my first practice round...man am I hooked. Such a great way to spend time. I've watched a bunch of your videos the past few days. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and passion of archery. God Bless

As far as point number 4 (the nocking point location) some bows like the Mathews trx series do shoot the best with the nock point dead center between the axles

Wow take a breath lol Very good info ! You pack a lot of info into a none stop , no wasted pause or thinking it just flows out! Glad I watched , I’ll subscribe, cause I think you have a lot to offer !

I lined my center shot up by eye and it worked perfectly

I learned the hard way the part about getting to know my bow before worrying about most other stuff. My PSE Supra RTX, 40ATA and SE cam, for example, doesn't like arrows that weigh under 320 grains. Even though the commonly held wisdom states that any arrow over the total weight of 5 grains per pound of draw weight would mean any arrow just over 280 grains would do. The bow would make a terrible snapping sound when I released the string.

Thank you! Could you please do a video on the process of using the Easton T Square.

You have a new sub. I went shooting with a buddy and he noticed my arrows were flying ass high but hitting center started doing research because I'm very new to this and he's very new to shooting a bow as well and trying to find a solution has been difficult.

Bow tech here. Completely agree with the comments about the Mathews tophats being easier than shims but we still very regularly change out shims on other bows to fix tuning and leave that centershot within +- 1/16” of that ideal 13/16”. I guess it’s something I’ve done for a while now but how important do you think that 13/16” is? (Before we change em we obviously shoot it ourselves through paper and often verify with another tech to make sure the tears match) Slightly related to this, what do you personally do when you shoot perfect, consistent bullet holes through paper and have the customer verify it’s tuned to them and it’s WAY off? Often times, with 30+ minutes of coaching, I cannot get the customer to shoot without torquing. If it’s a super consistent bad year for them I usually will end up breaking out the shins but often times just tell them to watch some videos, practice, and we can retune later when they’re more comfortable. If they’re hunting like that we tell them that a small diameter mechanical is the way to go 100% too. Thanks for taking the time to read this!

Shimming a PSE usually meant going into a worse position in my cases. Top or bottom cam would already have lean, and I'd end up giving the limb more leverage that didn't need it, and I can't just buy stiffer limbs within deflection tolerance online.

A wealth of archery knowledge. You da’ man good one 👍

Thank you so much, I spent so long trying to paper tune my bow with no success. However, I was grouping incredibly well at 20, 30, 40, 50 and 60 yards. Gave up and just concentrated on technique.

Video and Audio are on point...oh and content isn't bad either 😂

Just getting into bows about 2 months ago, so long story 🤣 my wife and her dad got together and decided to buy me a bow so I can learn and hunt with it, they bought me the Bear cruzer g2 and had the DL maxed as im 6 foot 5 inch and found out after they got it that my DL is 31 and a half 🤦‍♂️😂 so, Bear cruzer g2 maxed at 29 😔 I learned to use it anyway as it was what I had and with being disabled and the 2 of us having 10 kids, 5 hers and 5 mine that we have full custody of, buying another bow wasn't really an option especially given the bow price for us big guys 😡 I couldn't control the bow properly and couldn't get my arrows in a 2 inch at 20 yards, my wife decided she would fix this problem, did her research and bought me the PSE Freak SP and it worked beautifully wow what a difference it made in comfort, shot placement, but most of all, it boosted my confidence in hunting so, got my bear and deer tags for both archery and rifle and wouldn't ya know it, 3 days before I head out for bear archery one of my children decided they would dry fire dads new bow and hide it back in its case 😭🤦‍♂️🙊 needless to say, I had to take the Bear cruzer g2 😱 well, I was successful, I got my bear, my very first animal to start my hunting story with many more to come in the future hopefully, yes I started late in life learning to hunt as I didn't have anyone to take me and teach me but want to learn and take my children... So, now that I've said all that 😂🤣😂 the PSE freak sp needed new cams, it takes almost 2 weeks for anyone to get them, they are on their way for the bow shop that's doing my repairs for me this one time as I like to learn to do my own work on anything I own and I am learning bows now, question is, do the cams need to always be what came on that bow? Or can you have a bow set up and chose to go with cams from a different manufacturer? 🤔 by next year I will have extra parts for every bit of this bow for backups just incase, I just thought that if I could pick cams that are easily available to pick up anywhere and fit my bow and comfort level then it would be smarter to make that change instead of waiting 2 weeks directly from the manufacturer 🤦‍♂️🤷‍♂️🙈😁 is there anything else I should know about this particular bow? Maybe give me some idea of things to keep an eye on? Upgrades? Experience? Thank you for all the information you shared, things I've learned so far from you and others on this platform I will pass on to my children and grandchildren and feel like I can be confident in doing so as I know this knowledge is indeed good and learned through experience as well... Thank you soo much

I wish I would have watched your video last night before I untuned my bow. I tried aligning my arrow square with my bow and after two arrows, I realized fletchings were hitting the strings. So now back to square one of putting it back the way it was. 😖

I've got a bow w a tail high tear, would dropping the d loop a bit help w this situation. Guy is wanting to use a whisker biscuit 63 lbs 29.5 in arrows, 300 spine. 175 total weight up front. ....

Hahahaa...I got 2 Bowtech Destroyer 350s from 2010 that I've got the arrow lined up perfectly with the stabilizer and shooting bulletholes. As well, I also have a Diamond Infinite Edge Pro that I've tuned the same way. I do have a 2022 Bowtech Solution SS with binary cams that the arrow sits pointed slightly out to the left of my stabilizer, but I'm okay with that, because there's no way to change the cam to lean perfectly to get perfect centershot alignment with the stabilizer. So, yeah, it depends on the design of the bow/cam system whether or not you can get perfect centershot on the arrow to the stabilizer.

I've never considered lining up an arrow with my stabilizer, but when setting up my bow I do make sure my arrow lines up with my string while making sure my level is level.

If you trust that the riser is machined that exact, and I mean every one of those risers, then you do you. I have a laser light that attaches where your sight goes. You simple nock an arrow, align the laser first to make sure it’s dead center on the string, then move that laser abs see if it will follow the middle of that shaft all the way to the point. If it does not, then you adjust the rest until it does. I dont even trust that plunger hole to be where level is either. But hey, you do you.

the 2 bows I have punched in the last year nether one of them say 13/16 one shows 5/8 to 1” and the others says to align the arrow parallel with the riser. Hoyt and bowtech.

Would you consider an ordered list of what to check first - last on a new bow and what steps come first - last tuning?

My Hoyt manual says to get center shot starting point between 1 inch to 5/8ths inches from (Ham)Berger Button. 😁 I got my bow tuned within a few shots. I didn’t even need to fine tune for field points and broadheads. Groups are almost robinhood precise. 🏹🎯 I like a short D-Loop too some people have long d-loop 🤷🏼‍♂️

I have the VXR 2020 as when it was made I think right it on one side I think it's like an inch in a quarter on the other side it's not even an inch from the limb from the limb to the inside of the camp so it's definitely not in the center

My shop used a framing square lol if it works it works but my fletching keeps hitting my rest and. I have a trophy ridge quick shot or whatever and it doesn't adjust up and down. It's frustrating right now lol had to take a break from shooting

Bow gets the arrow downrange, and a car gets the driver downrange. A better analogy might be the mechanic never checks out the driver to make sure he knows how to operate the car before diagnosing the reported car issues.

I love your enthusiasm with setting up your equipment.

On my PSE DRIVE NXT 33 the centre of the string is 90 degrees from the screw hole.

Almost every used bow I've bought needed yoke/shimming. Usually these "untunable" bows are good deals that just need TLC.

Always grateful that you take the time to put out archery videos.

On every bow hunting/target FB site I regularly read where someone writes/comments " my shop tuned my bow" and it still shoots like crap. Like you say- a shop can NOT tune your bow. They can make sure? lol that it is in factory spec. Newbies are usually the people in these comments as they just don't know anything technical. They don't have a clue that there is a delicate balance in all the mechanics of sending an arrow perfectly down range. And I add that really very few archers, comparatively, shoot their bow enough that they & the bow basically become ONE thing? Ideally, and the real professionals do it, one should shoot enough they are 100% in tune with it. Knowing 100% where that pin was and that the arrow WILL hit right behind that pin is the best confidence maker ever.

So much blue Elite gear. It’s glorious.

Prime says 7/8 from the shelf and berger hole plus or minus 1/8 but I agree I tune my bow where it shoots best and I find my bad shots are still good accurate shots the bow is just very forgiving

Shop I go to lines up string with center of grip for center shot 😬 I'll have to measure when I get home.. Thanks for all the great content!!!

Great video nat. Need to Cole check out the shop one if these days. I travel from Tyrone clear to weavers for a bow shop. There is a few closet but I've gotten to know and trust them guys down there.

Almost impossible to keep ATA and BH dead on. End up chasing your tail constantly. What I found works is….. shoot a bunch and get the string and cables broken in. Leave them alone wrt ATA and BH but if course work yolks etc to tune the arrow flight. So you lose a couple pounds DW. Ok. My 70 pound switchback maxes at 67 because my ATA is off like 1/8 inch. But arrow flight is perfect. That deer or elk at 50 yards will never know the difference in 6 FPS, but will if the arrow doesn’t arrive properly.

Then again, more bows like Mathews are designed to be shimmed instead of yoke tuned. So know the equipment rather. Would you say the SET whatever thing on your elite is the 10th thing to touch if the rest is at centershot and you have a tear?

Hahah now that you have acknowledged the rubber band on the string I can go back to the beginning and actually pay attention this time 😂😂😂

Thanks Nate for all the great info you provide. I just built a full bow shop and plan on opening to the public in a few years when I get a good base of knowledge. I am definitely not confident enough now to start working on others equipment. I have an Elite Remedy I shoot for 3D and indoor. I am about to replace the string and cables. Can you give me the order of set up steps you use to tune a target bow? I would greatly appreciate your advice. Thanks again

My bowtech manual for my cp28 does say to find the center shot. It just says to make each dimension to the arrow equal

Great content.....I wish we had a super meticulous bow tech locally!...just wanna learn myself

Nate is one of the best at actually responding

Still not sure about where to line up the arrow and berger hole, cover the berger hole or split it with the bottom of arrow, center of arrow through center of hole?

I smash that subscribe button today, the way you explain stuff is like me and you were outside shooting in the backyard

Where do you actually set the T-square relative to the berger hole? Where should the center of the shaft align with the berger hole?

A person can only tune as well as they can shoot so tuning is subjective to the shooter. Today's ultra-high letoff bows with short ATA and low BH require good shooting form to tune well. That is why drop away rests and expandable broadheads are so popular these days.

Another insightful video. Thanks and Happy Father's Day!!!

Wish I had a shop guy like you around here the guys at my local shop are good but they don't offer much advice or knowledge when I ask questions

Being brand new to compound archery I shot my bow for 3 months until I tried doing much of anything. Got myself repeated myself, then started fine tuning and swapping parts. Can't shop your way into a bad form

Another great topic for a video and an important one to keep many of us from going down some rabbit 🐇 holes 🕳. Thanks again Nate! 🏹🦌

Thanks for the great info! As always you share your knowledge in a very understandable way.

I bought the Axcel Hunting Slider Sight ArmorTech Lite Fixed Mount 41mm Scope, and when shooting my Bowtech SS34 in the store I already mentioned that I couldn't fully see it in the 5/32 peepsight! So I bought the wrong scope it should have been a 31mm scope I think! what should i do now?

Thank you so much for all the work you are doing. I learned a lot from your videos. Take care m8.

I'm brand new to the sport, and appreciate your videos.. Thanks

Would you set your nock point before or after you install a whisker biscuit

So what would you move first on a bowtech with a dead lock system? Still trying everything before you move the cams?

Pertinent, maybe. I just bought a Blackout Distinct - $529 , from Bass Pro - 2023. I cannot get rid of right tear, paper tuning. I find the tiller is out by 7/16 - nearly 1/2" My query is whether modern, past parallel bows, are ok with unequal tiller Or should I start turning limb bolts?

Again, the nocking point.... don’t trust that plunger button hole to be where it is supposed to be. I put the bow on a bow vise. I put a level on the string and level the bow. Then I nock an arrow and hang a level on the arrow. If the string is level and the arrow is level, none of my bow set ups have ever failed. This guy knows a bit but he is not as picky as me on finding these alignments.

Ok so this number would it be the same for a finger shot compound ?

Prime has always been recommending 7/8" from the burger button to the center of the arrow

Brother you have a way of explaining things !!! Great video

Great video!

I just have a few drinks and tinker till I punch holes in targets more or less repeatedly. Come back the next day and its like magic, just shoots where I aim it. People think too hard about things.

I heard Levi Morgan measures the ata to find his d loop position

Great video, too bad I have no clue what you're talking about, total noob here. But, you got a subscriber for sure. Going to check your channel for any possible beginner videos. I'm about 50 or so shots in on a Diamond Edge 320, didn't want to drop a ton of money on my first compound bow.

If you have a Bowtech or Elite bow, you can eliminate a lot of of drama associated with point 5. Probably why you like Elite :)

Wow, what a great video!!! Question: what's a good scale for measuring draw weight? I am rehabbing my shoulder so I would like to measure it. I backed my "non-speed" bow off a full turn and I have progressed to where I may be ready to increase my draw weight a bit. Thanks.

so 13/16 is a good starting point, how far in or out are you comfortable moving the rest before you consider shimming (all other factors accounted for first obviously). my PSE NTN 33 shoots light arrows dead nut bullet holes at 13/16 but my heavier set up (still only 475gr) shoots bullets at 3/4. (and to make sure it wasnt a spine issue, I beefed up the point weight on my 340 spine light arrows and it was really a tuning nightmare, 300s only necessitated that small adjustment to the rest to 3/4)

I just dry fired my new bow. Was trying out a handheld release for the first time. So focused on form and technique that I forgot to nock a dang arrow. Doh!

Hi A.J.A . I'm a little confused , after 45 years of tuning bows , I was always under the impression that as the string stretches, and gets longer ,the poundage goes up. You stated that when your A.T.A was over spec, by just a 1/16" (I'm assuming because of the string stretching) you lost 2-3 lbs. of draw weight. I don't understand that, please explain. Thanks.

What shop do you work at in Clearfeild? Is it the one next to grice? I live in the state college area and would like to check it out.

What would make my string way off as far as center shot , when I try to do 13/16 it's way off like front is 13/16 and the far side of the arrow will be like 1" or more...what happend?.

You have way way more experience than me be but why do you say shimming takes a long time? I purchased a bow press and shimmed my hoyt rx7 ultra 5 times in under an hour with shooing paper in-between.

Whats your favorite paper tuning method.

7 out of 10 times what needs trouble-shooting is the shooter hehe

Awesome video!! Thanks

Nate, did you make a video oh what should do tune first?

When using the T-Square should the bottom of the t-square line up with the bottom of the berger hole or should it bisect the berger hole?

Thanks for what you do...

Finally someone who knows there shyyt

You're the Sheldon from the big bang theory of the archery world. Great video though.