I think Andy Goode summed it up perfectly. That being saracens have contributed to increasing the market value of English players in the Premiership. The purpose of the salary cap was to keep rugby sustainable. Most clubs don't make a profit. Co investments are breaking the cap. As Andy said what constitutes salary, his final comment was all other payments. The salary cap rules also state that any benefit in kind directly linked because they play for Saracens is salary. The Co investments fall under the salary cap. I can't imagine Nigel Wray would have any co investment with a player who's not linked to the club. They cheated the system and need to accept the punishment and stick within the rules moving forward.

Finally a video longer than 2 minutes 😂😂❤️

Jim’s argument here is really ringing hollow. It’s completely irrelevant whether the Wrays were acting “for the good of the players”. Saracens are guilty of not providing absolute explanations about every co investment. The co investments only happened because there was an employment contract in place between the player and the club. Therefore the co-investment is part and parcel of the players emolument. Therefore it clearly falls under the salary cap.

Auld Jimbo really drank the saracens coolaid. Sure they are probably still paying him. The stuff about treating people right and not halving salaries due to injuries, has nothing to do with saving money. The problem is that they have too much money and can’t spend it legally

Turn the bloomin' sound up your end, will you? My laptop is cranked up to max and it's still difficult to follow

What Andy didn't mention is the preamble to the salary definition which states that it includes payments "by or on behalf of a Club or any Connected Party or Third Party of the Club, to or in respect of a Player or any Connected Party of the Player…..". That is what the argument is about, whether the co-investments, as they are legally structured, count within that definition. It does not centre around the definition of salary but on the definition of the source of the payment.

Jim, you didn't go for the money, you went to play with the best players, and Sarries have the best players because Wray could afford to bring together a squad of such depth because he has operated outside of the compensation rules that the clubs agreed to. Professional rugby cannot afford an escalation in wages like this, not just in England, but throughout the game globally. My biggest concern now is how Sarries are going to get back within the salary cap, the punishment seems to be only in relation to the year that the breaches took place, so unless there is a reduction to 7m quid including the investments, then what's the difference? They are allowed to continue as is, and then pay the next fine etc. etc.

You can have some sympathy for sarries regarding homegrown talent coming good, it'd be stupid to remove the incentive for clubs to run strong academies. But then you look at the players they are still signing. Liam Williams, Elliot Daly, Will Skelton etc... Even Billy Vunipola was hardly a risky bet. That's where they've been crossing the line.

There is a good chance players that now play at other clubs have these investments. That makes things more complicated.

It's not difficult to comment. They've been joking about it forever. Its cheating. Hamilton is looking like stooge here. Entitlement 101. Goode comes out of this looking like the only adult in the room, again.

There's a lot of clubs who have suffered much worse fate than Sarries. Rugby Lions, London Scottish, Richmond etc. All were relegated to the lowest tier of English rugby for financial issues. A 35pt deduction? The RFU need to stick to the precedent they have set to other clubs. Otherwise it makes a joke of the RFU. But hey, it's a top division club that has England players so of course they aren't going to follow their precedent. Think a lot of clubs who have had financial issues will sue them. And rightfully so.

I think bristol are also way above the salary cap. Look at pita at 1million, Nathan Hughes 500k Ian Madigan 500k Steve Luatua at 650k etc

On point

It’s clear which fellow was a fly half and which fellow was a lock - JH seems not to understand basic rules 🙄

All right to go on about academies. Lots of clubs have great academies, producing fine players. Then Saracens buy em. No one was ever going to drive a truck load of money to a Sarries academy player and entice them away. Unless Sarries didn't want them.

Andy Goode the only adult in the room here. How many times can Hamilton miss the point? Vapid.

Ban them indefinitely from international and club rugby #simple.

Saracens should have had their Premiership trophies taken away. Not necessarily given to Exeter, but voided.

What about when Saracens sacked 18 players in one day back in 2009.

Really! No other club uses co-investment with players? So if I want to co-invest money with a Rugby player in a venture that is not in the salary cap. If I am the chairperson, friend of the chairperson, or supporter of the club that would have to be declared as salary for the cap? Perhaps somebody real independent experts need to look into all clubs salary matters and associated Ltd companies (not rival club chairmans from the PRL or an 'independent review board' that makes out it is 'a legal review')

I didn’t go there for money. Yeah right.

No concern for the teams or fans that were deprived of trophys and wins that did play by the rules. Its £2m+ admin error ? pull the other one like a player on £750k pa needs help securing their post playing future. Property is the obvious choice, no future with media, coaching, after dinner speeches, product endorsement, sponsorship etc. It will be tough for the ex captain of England . I wonder if his Dad is struggling. BTW guess who also pays for these wage increases. Yes a sugar daddy will cover the losses but they will look to minimise them by justifying higher ticket prices and pay to view. Great guy Nigel Wrey, he just wants to buy his trophys. He wont be deciding if the family can justify the cost of a season ticket. The cheapest Saracens season tickets increased 300% on inflation last year.

Gresham’s Law applies here with Saracens and their effect on the Premiership and the European Champions Cup, “Bad Money drives out Good”. Saracens have done immense harm to the whole of European Rugby, they need to be dropped to the bottom of the system and work their way back to the top. No one is entitled to a spot at the top in promotion and relegation league. Enough said!

In fairness which team doesn't do this...

stop making excuses. its really simple. dont pay a player more than the salary cap.............forget all this bs about different types of payments.

Jim Hamilton really is dull and limited.

Cheats.

I honestly don’t care. Only people who seem to give a shit are players and ex players. I do understand the salary cap and the reasons behind it, and if Saracens have to pay a big price then fair play it’s their own fault. But I don’t understand the outrage, or why people are so angry. I put it down to people feeling hard done by. Newsflash: life’s not fair. Get over it.

every podcast, "when i was at sarries" were talking about now not then. move on