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Animals Died Before the Fall - Where the Creation Museum Gets the Bible Wrong

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Ben S

Ben S

Күн бұрын

Buy my book: www.amazon.com...
Footnotes:
[1] Bodie Hodge, “How Did Attack/Defense Structures Come About?” in The New Answers Book: Over 25 Questions on Creation Evolution and the Bible, ed. Ken Ham (Green Forrest, AR: Master Books, 2006), 266.
[2] Tim Clarey, Dinosaurs: Marvels of God’s Design: The Science of the Biblical Account (Green Forest, AR: Master books, 2015), 79.
[3] Joshua John Van Ee, “Death and the Garden: An Examination of Original Immortality, Vegetarianism, and Animal Peace in the Hebrew Bible and Mesopotamia,” (PhD diss., University of California, 2013), xiii.
[4] Daniel J. Stulac, “Hierarchy and Violence in Genesis 1:26-28: An Agrarian Solution,” Submission for Ecological Hermeneutics Open Section at SBL Annual Meeting 2013, 4, 6. www.academia.edu/5186990/Hierarchy_and_Violence_in_Genesis_1_26-28_An_Agrarian_Solution.
[5] Quoted in Van Ee, “Death and the Garden,” 333. Originally, Karl Möller, “Images of God and Creation in Genesis 1-2,” in A God of Faithfulness: Essays in Honour of J. Gordon McConville on His 60th Birthday, ed. Jamie A. Grant, Alison Lo, and Gordon J. Wenham (New York: T & T Clark, 2011), 20-21.
[6] Van Ee quotes the Chicago Assyrian Dictionary entry on kabāsu: “to crush, defeat an enemy, to bother, to make people do work, to press people.” (“Death and the Garden,” 203.) In order to make the creation mandate comport with an idea of original vegetarianism, scholars like Lohfink have tried to argue that the Akkadian kabāsu, which refers to treading over, might be an idiom for taking symbolic possession of something. Van Ee (“Death in the Garden,” 202-204) rejects this analysis because: 1) It must be implied without any textual confirmations that such a meaning was ever used for it (i.e., we have no texts confirming its use as such an idiom). 2) It is strange to supply that meaning in the perfect Niphal stem in conjunction with the preposition לפני in a passage like Josh 18:1. If kavash in that passage is simply an idiom for taking possession and doesn’t refer to conquest then the passage would be translated something like, “The land had been stepped on (i.e. possessed) in front of them.” What does it mean that the Israelites had already stepped on and came to possess what was in front of them? Most importantly, 3) Josh 18:1 and 3 seem to contrast the Hebrew word for “possess” with the term for “subdue.”
[7] Ibid., 207.
[8] Ibid.
[9] Ibid., 210.
[10] Ibid., 217. Van Ee directs us to Postell’s comment: “The militaristic overtones of the creation mandate, therefore, make sense only when understood as the prototypical mandate to conquer the Promised Land.” Seth D. Postell, Adam as Israel: Genesis 1-3 as the Introduction to the Torah and Tanakh (Eugene: Pickwick Publications, 2011), 102. As an aside, Gen 2:18 says Eve was created as an ‘ezer kenegdo-what the King James translated as a “help meet” for Adam. The Hebraist Robert Alter has pointed out that the translation “help,” “is too weak because it suggests a merely auxiliary function, whereas ‘ezer elsewhere connotes active intervention on behalf of someone, especially in military contexts, as often in the Psalms.” Eve was created as Adam’s “sustainer”-again, a term suggesting military connotation. See note on verse 18 in Robert Alter, The Five Books of Moses: A Translation with Commentary (New York: Norton, 2004), 22.
[11] Peet Van Dyk, “Challenges in the Search for an Ecotheology,” Old Testament Essays 22.1 (2009), 190. Footnote citations removed from within quotation.
[12] Van Ee, “Death and the Garden,” 245.
[13] This seems circumscribed by the term “violence” in Gen 6:11, given as one of the conditions motivating the flood judgement. Ibid., 246. Later, the Enoch corpus took up the same themes.
[14] John J. Bimson, “Reconsidering a ‘Cosmic Fall,’” Science and Christian Belief 18.2 (2006), 70.
[15] Van Ee, “Death and the Garden,” 300. Footnote citations omitted from quotation.
[16] Ibid., 308.
[17] Ibid., 312.
[18] Gijsbert van den Brink, “God and the Suffering of Animals,” in Playing with Leviathan: Interpretation and Reception of Monsters from the Biblical World, ed. Bekkum et al. (Netherlands: Brill, 2017), 189-190.
[19] Amos 9:13. Van Ee, “Death and the Garden,” 314.
[20] Nell Greenfieldboyce, “Tyrannosaurus Rex’s Bite Force Measured 8,000 Pounds, Scientists Say,” NPR, May 17, 2017. Accessed, Sept 18, 2017, www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/05/17/528677883/tyrannosaurus-rexs-bite-force-measured-8-000-pounds-scientists-say.
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Пікірлер: 642
@bens7686
@bens7686 3 жыл бұрын
Buy my book on Young Earth Creationism: www.amazon.com/dp/0578823691
@jessebryant9233
@jessebryant9233 2 жыл бұрын
Why? Is it as bad as the video? If so, then there's no good reason to buy it...
@Spartanous
@Spartanous 2 жыл бұрын
@@jessebryant9233 care to elaborate?
@jessebryant9233
@jessebryant9233 2 жыл бұрын
@@Spartanous Yeah, all THE "why" bits that show that THE SPEAKER really hasn't looked into this very much... "Logical problems"? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Well, DOES HE know what it was like before the fall? DOES HE believe in the fall? Why IS HE on this crusade? "Ironic deadly structures"? HIS pseudo-exegesis, hopefully, isn't fooling too many...
@Spartanous
@Spartanous 2 жыл бұрын
@@jessebryant9233 what are you rambling about? You're not making any sense.
@jessebryant9233
@jessebryant9233 2 жыл бұрын
@@Spartanous No, that was you in your video-rambling.
@InspiringPhilosophy
@InspiringPhilosophy 6 жыл бұрын
Amazing Video!
@bromponie7330
@bromponie7330 6 жыл бұрын
Haha, I was just about to recommend this channel to you for some insight to your soon-to-be Genesis series :P
@Jamie-Russell-CME
@Jamie-Russell-CME 5 жыл бұрын
I want to debate you about YEC.
@Jamie-Russell-CME
@Jamie-Russell-CME 5 жыл бұрын
See my comments on your Genesis/creation interpretation discussion with Gen.HanSolo and another black Christian. Sorry, I dont know his name
@thesuperghost3272
@thesuperghost3272 5 жыл бұрын
@@Jamie-Russell-CME you will get rekt ma guy you have no Chance dont even try
@thetruthchannel349
@thetruthchannel349 5 жыл бұрын
"The SuperGhost1 hour ago @jamie Russell you will get rekt ma guy you have no Chance dont even try" THIS IS THE FRUIT OF DEBATES. ROTTEN TO THE CORE. THE MASTURBATION OF EGO. THE ABSENCE of ANYTHING USEFUL.
@takingupserpents9090
@takingupserpents9090 6 жыл бұрын
This is my first visit to this channel and wanted to tell you how impressed I am, you give the subject a very thorough treatment and the channel is very aesthetically pleasing as well.
@angelusvastator1297
@angelusvastator1297 4 жыл бұрын
Wow he really went off with this analysis. BTW, here's an interesting verse to offend everyone: "On this mountain the LORD of Hosts will prepare a banquet for all the peoples, a feast of aged wine, of choice meat, of finely aged wine. "- Isaiah 25:6.
@genzphilosophy5706
@genzphilosophy5706 3 жыл бұрын
That choice meat could be the flesh of Jesus Christ
@Izzy777-_-
@Izzy777-_- 3 жыл бұрын
@@genzphilosophy5706 Hahahahahaha, you do know when Jesus made the metaphor of eating his flesh he was talking about bread
@genzphilosophy5706
@genzphilosophy5706 3 жыл бұрын
@@Izzy777-_- the body of Christ is made of bread? Wrong. Bread is the substance which is consubstantiated but Jesus is not made of bread, nor is his flesh.
@Izzy777-_-
@Izzy777-_- 3 жыл бұрын
@@genzphilosophy5706 Im not saying that his body is made out of bread but when you think that, "of choiced meat" is referring to Jesus flesh, it's very far fetched
@genzphilosophy5706
@genzphilosophy5706 3 жыл бұрын
@@Izzy777-_- yeah my bible doesn’t even mention meat in Isaiah 25:6??
@samuelsoles7948
@samuelsoles7948 2 жыл бұрын
I am the 777th like. :D Epic. Love your work brother!
@jacobvashchenko7687
@jacobvashchenko7687 4 жыл бұрын
(sarcasm) “No Ben! Scorpions used to mow the lawn with their pinchers and dispense essential oils on people’s skin! Life was a freakin Utopia!!!” Haha. 🤣
@asamanthinketh5944
@asamanthinketh5944 2 жыл бұрын
Who knows what they did
@aaronowen4425
@aaronowen4425 10 ай бұрын
I have a knife in my kitchen - it's serrated and used for cutting. Sometimes I use it to cut meat, sometimes I use it to cut vegetables and sometimes I even use it to cut twine - if I was being attacked it could even be used as a weapon to defend myself. The purpose of it can seem straight forward but is more likely determined by the situation at the time period. To say that death is not a result of the fall theologically causes many many problems. If there was death before the fall how could creation be not only good but very good. If death also was always a natural result and not a direct result of the fall then how can "death" be cast into the Lake of Fire in the end? We will have to agree to disagree on this.
@aaronowen4425
@aaronowen4425 9 ай бұрын
@@TheBoredTheist- let me ask you this - since science dictates it is impossible for someone who has died (and when I say died I mean for days not died for 5 min. or so) to come back to life but God's word says Jesus died and was buried for 3 days and rose again which do you believe? - Science that dictates it is impossible for that to happen or God's word that says it definitely did happen? If you do not believe the Bible is true and God's word, we have no common ground to begin with in the first place. Romans 3:8 "Let God be true and every man a liar..." If science says something and the Bible says something else I will go with what the Bible says every time. Science has been proven wrong before and can and will be proven wrong in the future on some things. If you take what science says over what God says well then your faith is in man - man is your final authority not God, there is no getting around that.
@aaronowen4425
@aaronowen4425 9 ай бұрын
@@TheBoredTheist "The Bible is not a science textbook, Genesis describes ancient near east cosmology, not scientifically accurate history." You are the one who brought science into it saying that the bible is not "scientifically accurate history" My position is that it IS accurate history and MORE accurate than what science may or may not say. Science changes it's stance ALL THE TIME. Science can't even decide if the simple egg is good for a person or bad for a person. One day it's a super food the next day it's the worst thing for your heart you can eat. You responded with I believe if I counted right 47 verses (an over whelming amount I might add for a discussion without even answering the question I asked about what you would believe about death and what science says and what the Bible says. I am not trying to be a smart aleck or disrespectful to you in anyway but I do believe from what you said that science is your final authority and not God - If I am wrong I apologize but if I am right then we will never agree because we are starting from two separate foundations.
@jjoesmith331
@jjoesmith331 3 ай бұрын
Yes. T rex had 8000 pounds of crushing jaw pressure and serrated teeth to eat watermelon. Fact of the matter is, such tools are much more efficient in sawing through meat than coconuts. It's the same reason plant eating animals have flat molars, like rhinos or elephants. Dinosaurs are the same. Those with sharp claws and teeth are built as predators. Or consider that predators have the eyes on front of their heads. While prey have eyes on the sides. This gives predators depth perception for active hunting. While eyes on the side give prey a defensive advantage in escaping. Dinosaurs are the same way. Their bodies are built through and through for predation (meat eating theropods) or as defensive structures for prey, like triceratops and stegosaurus. And you'd have to be a dishonest fool to not see that.
@aaronowen4425
@aaronowen4425 3 ай бұрын
@@jjoesmith331 "dishonest fool" how classy - how many pounds of pressure does a hippo have in it's bite? - 1,800 psi Looks like it has some pretty massive canine teeth as well pretty big and pointed - is a hippo carnivorous or a herbivore? I guess it needs that massive jaw power and deadly teeth for chasing down that grass doesn't it? I don't know why you would have went from a civil discussion to calling someone not only a "fool" but a "dishonest fool" - where that vial hatred comes from is beyond me. It's fine to disagree with someone but there is no need to hate them for their opinion because I definitely don't hate you for disagreeing with me. take care.
@reginaldodonoghue9253
@reginaldodonoghue9253 5 жыл бұрын
I used to like this video, but now I disagree. 1) I just see a command for humans to bring the animals into human rule in Genesis 1:28. This is kingly language, as some of the scholars you mentioned pointed out, the Bible gives kings responsibilities. 2) Van Ee, one scholar you cite does not say the word 'radah' gives humans despotic rule, he makes it clear that it is only meant to emphasise human dominion. 3) God gives animals the right to eat plants in Genesis 1:30, but never gives them the right to eat meat? Why is this? 4) You overlook Isaiah 11:7, which goes one step further by saying that lions will actually eat straw. I get that this language is metaphorical, but it suggests more than mere safety from the animal kingdom.
@luvpamelanewton
@luvpamelanewton 5 жыл бұрын
The venomous and wild animals are outside the garden of Eden.
@zeogen
@zeogen 4 жыл бұрын
Isaiah was written a thousand years after many of the texts in Genesis. Why even look to it in this manner. The author would likely have no idea or methods to bring back an original tradition.
@luvpamelanewton
@luvpamelanewton 4 жыл бұрын
Isaiah is prophetic. Agree.
@luvpamelanewton
@luvpamelanewton 4 жыл бұрын
Animals and people eating flesh is outside the garden. The eating of flesh is part of the curse of the fall after Adam and Eve were expelled. There were animals outside the garden that were not inside the garden too.
@luvpamelanewton
@luvpamelanewton 4 жыл бұрын
He assumes the coats of skin people acquired are animal skins. In The Garden, sinful flesh cannot be in there. Maybe the coats of skin is our present flesh now instead. In other words, our nature was different before we sinned and were expelled.
@justinhebert5155
@justinhebert5155 2 жыл бұрын
Interesting presentation, thanks for sharing your thoughts and insights. This makes me want to begin learning Hebrew.
@lawrencestanley8989
@lawrencestanley8989 6 жыл бұрын
After listening to the first 4:00... (I'm still watching) Point 1) We know that after the curse, God caused thorns and thistles to grow among plant life that did not exist before the curse; are you assuming then that the curse did not extend to all creatures in ways that would have produced the scorpion's unique features? Genesis 9:3 grants man permission to eat meat, but we are not told that animals did not have this right after the curse. In fact, the wording of Genesis 3:15 would lead one to believe that violence among animals, and hence, biological features geared towards violence and defense against violence, were present as a result of the curse. Point 2) The tree of life, first found in Genesis 2:9 was most likely a real tree, given to Adam for multiple purposes; while it was indeed a blessing for food (Genesis 2:16), it was also symbolic of both eternal life and continual blessing; that is, it was an object lesson for God's blessing. As we look at Revelation 22:2, we see that this tree appears again, but with a little more description to its purposes. When Adam sinned, God forbade them to eat of its fruit, teaching him that rebellion against God results not in a continual blessing, but in judgment - in all of scripture, the term "eternal life" is not a statement about the time of one's life (since all humans will live forever in the spiritual sense), but instead it is a statement about the quality of that life (because humans will either live eternally in the presence of God and His blessings, or they will live eternally in His judgment). When Adam was forbidden to eat of the tree of life, it was symbolic of the new condition of his new life after sin. Point 3) Population regulation could certainly be a concern, but it is at this point that one must examine his theology about whether or not God ordained the fall of man, the curse, and death. If not (infralapsarianism), then one might scratch his head for quite a while trying to think up ways that God might have employed to keep the planet from being over populated. If your theology is Biblical however, and you understand that God indeed ordained the fall (supralapsarianism), (Ephesians 1:11-22, Lamentations 3:37, Psalm 33:9-11, 103:19, and many more) then God planned means to keep the planet from overpopulation - namely, sickness and death. Update... After watching the rest of the video, while I hold no degrees in theology, and I do not pretend to know as much as some of the theologians that you quoted, I humbly observe that it does seem that if one wishes to find suffering and death before the curse, one must engage in quite a lot of speculation since we are never specifically told such a thing.
@Marie12Joan
@Marie12Joan 6 жыл бұрын
agreed. I don't claim to know one way or the other. but as violent as those verbs are they deal with enslaving not eating. And animals are not our equals so that makes sense. The information was fascinating but it doesn't strike me as conclusive.
@Pit.Gutzmann
@Pit.Gutzmann 6 жыл бұрын
It is interesting that anyone would try to extract any such specific meanings from such a blurry text. I do agree that you have to turn around the words over and over again to get to this or that point, but that is the problem of the whole bible. Interpretation of unspecific texts lead to all kinds of religious directions, dogmata and sects and behaviour. If this book really was from God he could have been a much better (i.e. more specific) author. I really wonder each day anew that such a badly written book could have become the foundation of ANYTHING. Loads of wrong scientific facts (probably guesses of ancient shepherds who did not understand the world), loads of horrifying "godly moral" (slay all that is breathing), an accumulation of many totally unrelated texts and stories, poems, laws and anecdotes... The closest thing you can find nowadays resembling this mixture is Reader's Digest. And that would not start a religion anymore...
@lawrencestanley8989
@lawrencestanley8989 6 жыл бұрын
Pit Gutzmann, With respect sir, it is evident that you are unfamiliar with the science of textual criticism. It isn't that the texts are not clear, it is that every person begins his investigation with presuppositions and established worldviews that are often read into the texts - the texts are clear, but it is the people who read them cause difficulty.
@Pit.Gutzmann
@Pit.Gutzmann 6 жыл бұрын
+Lawrence Stanley You are right, I am not a real scholar, nor am I familiar with the science of textual criticism. I have just read the old testament, the Thora and the Quran and have not found any text that was 100% clear (TO ME, I admit) or was not debatable or contradicted in parts by other texts in the same volume or even the very same text. To me, a simple text is not like a scientific fact/evidence, because a text has a *meaning* . The very process of writing it down is an attempt to *translate* the thoughts and intentions of an author (even if it was god himself) into words on a page. We all know from writing school essays that our teachers would be much stricter correcting our texts than anyone would be with biblical texts. Red notes on the margin saying "what do you mean with this?" "this contradicts your earlier observation!" or "be more specific!" would appear on every single page of the bible if corrected by a good teacher. Because texts are only written to transmit information. Information about observations, feelings, chains of reasoning etc. of the author. If a text can not transmit those informations reliably it is difficult to read/understand and is open to debate and misunderstandings. We know what religious misunderstandings lead to... That is all I wanted to say. I could and will not start a scholarly debate on professional textual criticism. Sorry if I wrote *my* text misunderstandably...
@lawrencestanley8989
@lawrencestanley8989 6 жыл бұрын
Pit Gutzmann, No need to apologize, actually, I appreciate your attitude on this topic, we are supposed to look at the text with a critical eye. After all, we are talking about a book that is separated from us by over 2,000 years, and across many different cultures, languages, and paradigms - it is natural that we should expect some difficulties in understanding the texts. This is precisely why there have been many Christians over the years who have worked diligently to span these gaps and make some of the more difficult areas of the text more understandable to the casual reader - men like Dr. Jason Lisle with his book "Keeping Faith in an Age of Reason: Refuting Alleged Bible Contradictions," and Gleason Archer's book "New International Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties" are a great place to start!
@Jamie-Russell-CME
@Jamie-Russell-CME 5 жыл бұрын
When Christ's rules on earth after the recreation shall we import the use of rule in other passages that are describing a sinful world and ways men rule?
@No-More-Idols
@No-More-Idols 4 жыл бұрын
Jamie Russell great point
@reginaldodonoghue9253
@reginaldodonoghue9253 6 жыл бұрын
I share Stulac's notion that this is more about humanity's role as a farmer than anything else. I also think that the cosmic temple theology gives us an impetus to protect the natural world. We must find a balance.
@westernriteorthodox8719
@westernriteorthodox8719 6 жыл бұрын
Great Video, Hope you make more!
@letsnotgothere6242
@letsnotgothere6242 2 жыл бұрын
You've made a convert from Ham's view to yours in a single vid, well done
@Xenosaurian
@Xenosaurian Жыл бұрын
See my reply to this video, because you need to be at least a little bit more critical before you just adopt this view without a second thought!
@richiejourney1840
@richiejourney1840 5 жыл бұрын
I was alway’s allowed to ask any question in Sunday School.
@anrose8335
@anrose8335 4 жыл бұрын
So did you come up with a few the teacher couldn't answer?
@christfollower5713
@christfollower5713 3 жыл бұрын
@@my2cents49 sorry brother for that , that is bad approach of the people of the Church , am Coptic Orthodox , and i search myself and go to Church also and have communion , No one is allowed to kick you out of God's house , you are a child of God , and he loves u
@erictaylor5462
@erictaylor5462 6 жыл бұрын
Animals couldn't die, but plants and fungi could? What about microbes, could they die? And if the animals couldn't die why did they need to eat anything?
@9000Gameplays
@9000Gameplays 6 жыл бұрын
That last sentence of yours hits the nail on the head good sir.
@maxavail
@maxavail 5 жыл бұрын
And if they did eat anything, wasn't the eaten thing dying in the process ?
@richiejourney1840
@richiejourney1840 5 жыл бұрын
What it comes down to is: Plants would live and die-they were the food. Animals would live and die-they were useful, not food, mortal. Humans would live-Tree of life, eat vegetation, immortal body with a beginning provided they ate from the Tree of Life. Microbes, Bacteria and Fungi would do their job-eat from the dead plants (digestion comes to mind), consume all things dead and decaying. All dying things would return to the earth for future resources. So, death and dying for plants and animals was not yet a curse on them. So, this is prepositional knowledge that Adam and Eve would know and observe. Which would give them the knowledge necessary when God said, “If you do this, you will experience that and it’s consequences.”
@slukky
@slukky 5 жыл бұрын
@@richiejourney1840 OR, Adam & Eve never were meant to eat of the Tree of Life w/o Christ's intervention on our behalf. Remember, flesh cannot enter heaven (I hope I don't have to name book, ch. & v. That's so condescending imho.) This is not our story. It is all to the glory of God. That He shares His joy w/ us is incredibly humbling & beautiful to me.
@mauimudpup
@mauimudpup 4 жыл бұрын
You dont know how most fungi work. They have broad underground network and the mushrooms on top are just tips above ground. Which plants died?
@stephencastro4723
@stephencastro4723 4 жыл бұрын
The YEC's can really make the most absurd interpretations about the Bible.
@angelusvastator1297
@angelusvastator1297 4 жыл бұрын
YECs and hippie vegans are similar the more I think about it.
@asamanthinketh5944
@asamanthinketh5944 4 жыл бұрын
@@angelusvastator1297 yeah most of them , though I know some YECs who are really smart they try to create hypothetical pre flood world to matchup radiometric dating make absurd theories about earth etc I mean aliens did it is equally plausible to YEC model
@Xenosaurian
@Xenosaurian 3 жыл бұрын
But you fully stand behind the considerably greater absurdity and deceptive empty reasoning presented in this video? The hypocrisy...
@stephencastro4723
@stephencastro4723 3 жыл бұрын
@@Xenosaurian are you a YEC that is triggered when after your pathetic interpretation of the scripture was exposed?
@Xenosaurian
@Xenosaurian 3 жыл бұрын
@@stephencastro4723 No, I merely stated it as it is. I even left a lengthy comment responding to the arguments proposed in the video.
@christiandanario
@christiandanario 3 жыл бұрын
"A Cherub Bouncer" ..... for goodness sake lol
@maxavail
@maxavail 5 жыл бұрын
So glad I found this channel !
@anrose8335
@anrose8335 4 жыл бұрын
Me 2.
@thenopasslook
@thenopasslook 6 жыл бұрын
Why would God call the creation “good” if it was already contaminated by death if death is “the last enemy”?
@reginaldodonoghue9253
@reginaldodonoghue9253 6 жыл бұрын
If God doesn't see death as necessarily bad
@bens7686
@bens7686 6 жыл бұрын
The “death” in 1 Corinthians 15:26 refers to the abolition of *human death* brought about by the sin of Adam discussed in the previous verses. Since my Near Eastern interpretation of the Tree of Life relies on it’s intention as a human antidote to death (which is superfluous btw on the inherent immortality interpretation of my detractors), Paul’s statement here accords with my interpretation.
@earlygenesistherevealedcos1982
@earlygenesistherevealedcos1982 5 жыл бұрын
The word translated "good" there means in the sense of "suitable" not deathless or in a state of moral perfection. In Genesis six when it says the daughters of Adam were "beautiful" its the same word used. This might be a bit much to start with but kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rclnda-d07mpkqM.html
@david-spliso1928
@david-spliso1928 5 жыл бұрын
In Romans 8 we read that animals were brought under a bondage of corruption unto death. Paul by explaining the sin of Adam meant animals die too, has destroyed this man-made microbe-to-man fable. God did not use billions of years of suffering, pain and death to create life on Earth. He got it right first time, and in fact called it "very good", a term which logically does not include the mass and prolonged suffering of living, breathing, _feeling_ beings.
@earlygenesistherevealedcos1982
@earlygenesistherevealedcos1982 5 жыл бұрын
@@david-spliso1928 That's theology that isn't actually in the Bible. When Paul speaks of creation waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God he writes as if it is something that has never happened before. Thus it is invalid to say that Paul was claiming that creation was subjected to futility as a result of Adam's sin. What it if was subjected to futility from the start, until the sons of God set it free with their manifestation? After all, in Genesis 1 creation starts out as a dark and chaotic place before the Light of God's Word enters it and begins to set things in order.
@bienvenidosaunlugarllamado4336
@bienvenidosaunlugarllamado4336 6 жыл бұрын
Great video. Do you have a webpage or something like that?
@RadarLightwave
@RadarLightwave 6 жыл бұрын
Awesome channel. Just found it on my recommended videos feed!
@ScarsServant
@ScarsServant 6 жыл бұрын
very informative and well-edited. Nice work! Subscribed.
@achillesbuchanan2095
@achillesbuchanan2095 6 ай бұрын
Great job. Thank you.
@stephencastro4723
@stephencastro4723 4 жыл бұрын
Animal and plant are obviously made mortal from the beginning as well as humans. It is a moot point to protect and guard the Tree of Life if humans were made immortal in the first place.
@zacharylawson8932
@zacharylawson8932 6 жыл бұрын
This is wonderful. I'd always been suspicious about the "subdue and rule" phraseology, but never dug behind the Hebrew.
@davidvenegasramirez6001
@davidvenegasramirez6001 5 жыл бұрын
Yes! Also Enoch explicitly states that death was prevalent before the flood
@slukky
@slukky 5 жыл бұрын
Why in the world was Enoch removed from the canon?
@luvpamelanewton
@luvpamelanewton 5 жыл бұрын
That was part of the corruption after Adam and Eve were expelled from the garden of Eden. Inside the garden, they ate vegetation.
@jordancox8294
@jordancox8294 4 жыл бұрын
@@luvpamelanewton T-rex was never a vegetarian.
@anrose8335
@anrose8335 4 жыл бұрын
@@jordancox8294 Plus God, in Job, never mentions an animal as ferocious as T-rex. I wonder why.
@chn8256
@chn8256 4 жыл бұрын
Enoch is lucifer.
@thechristiancowboy6967
@thechristiancowboy6967 6 жыл бұрын
What I don't understand is, why, when people at one time believed something differently than now, the believe the exact polar opposite. I just find that suspicious of ones hermeneutics. I was taught over 30 years ago, to separate your feelings from interpretation. Today in many ways my Theology is different than 30 years ago. Not always a polar opposite, but different. If the evidence leads toward an opposite belief then fine. I really sense a emotional aversion toward young earth. I frankly am not sure. I see the history of the world young, but the age of the earth can be whatever, the Bible is unclear as to when He began to create the earth, it was before Genesis 1. So I don't care how old the earth is. I don't think people who disagree with me are idiots either. I respect them all. It just seems like there is some kind of emotional investment present, one that should not be used as a hermeneutic.
@slukky
@slukky 5 жыл бұрын
Right, CC. (And I wish you'd be a light & use your real name.) I used to be crippled by anything challenging my beliefs. Now, I welcome those challenges, unless they're a veiled blasphemy. God's a big God. He can handle my ignorance. I don't have to defend Him from atheists & heretics. Or myself.
@jrc2155
@jrc2155 3 жыл бұрын
Amen!
@wolfieinu
@wolfieinu 3 жыл бұрын
Why should anyone put any stock in what you claim to "sense?" This is not an argument.
@imagomonkei
@imagomonkei 5 жыл бұрын
I think animal predation will only be prohibited on Eden, and that was the case before the Fall as well. Eden will be a paradise on Earth again, but outside I suspect there was always animal death.
@thetruthchannel349
@thetruthchannel349 5 жыл бұрын
Yep! I agree.
@Jamie-Russell-CME
@Jamie-Russell-CME 5 жыл бұрын
Sounds like "thorns and thistles and the sweat of your brow ..."
@EternityinOurHearts316
@EternityinOurHearts316 6 жыл бұрын
1. "They have little or no biological capacity to even digest properly"? And how would you possibly know that? You know the exact original biology of all animals that God originally made? You know the exact nutrients in all original plants including plants that are now extinct?
@LogosTheos
@LogosTheos 6 жыл бұрын
Eternity in Our Hearts We know it by studying nature. Please don't play mental gymnastics.
@thetruthchannel349
@thetruthchannel349 5 жыл бұрын
Man studying nature is like Bob Acosta doing a news report. Neither can resist the temptation to tamper and therefore BECOME the object of his own desire replacing truth, facts or even common sense in most cases.
@toonrex2806
@toonrex2806 11 ай бұрын
My theory for the passage of Isa 11:1-9 refers to formers enemies of God’s people making peace with them.
@Chazd1949
@Chazd1949 3 жыл бұрын
Just now put your book on my Wish List. Thanks brother. Will buy it soon.
@EternityinOurHearts316
@EternityinOurHearts316 6 жыл бұрын
2. No yec literature says all animals are inherently mortal. Nor does it say in the Bible that animals did not have access to the tree of life.
@thetruthchannel349
@thetruthchannel349 5 жыл бұрын
You have two environments in Genesis 1 and 2. You have the garden which is not like any other place on earth and you have everywhere else which is NOTHING like the garden. You have to differentiate what was happening in the garden versus what was happening outside the garden. Since we cant do that its very difficult to make certain judgements about things we are not directly informed concerning.
@stephencastro4723
@stephencastro4723 4 жыл бұрын
May i also add. In God's original creation, SATAN'S PRESENCE WAS THERE. YEC's ignore this very fact and did not even talk about the fall of Satan which occurred prior to the fall of man. So the YEC's are insinuating that when that in the end of time, everything will return to it's original creation and Satan's presence is also there.
@johneymunayer8705
@johneymunayer8705 2 жыл бұрын
No friend, it was after the Divine Probe that God Gives His "Very Good" Stamp of Approval after the 7 days. God Blessed the 7th Day Rendering it "Holy" Point being is that if n since angels are also part of Creation, they were included in that "Very Good" Approval week (no sin). As such, the fall or at least conspiring of the angel(s) happened some (unknown?) time after the 7th day and on or before chptr 3. The Curse of the Great Fall is codified in that same chptr addressing disobedient angel(s) and man w the broad brush all-inclusive-Sentence-of-Judgment vrs 14-24. The mistake is to separate man's sin exclusively as if the conniving Seraphim angel (nachash ; shinning one) was monergistic vs synergistic to the fall; the intro of sin... Finally: Technically speaking, we read "immediately their eyes were open..." but how many seconds minutes hrs b4 the details of vs 14-19 actuated initially on the world? Was it before during or after the Judgmental Sentence of vs 14-19? #Selah #FoodForThought #CreationGroans #CursedIsTheGround...
@stephencastro4723
@stephencastro4723 2 жыл бұрын
@@johneymunayer8705 nah, that was just nonsense from YEC's. Lucifer committed the first sin prior to the creation of man.
@johneymunayer8705
@johneymunayer8705 2 жыл бұрын
@@stephencastro4723 God's mills Grind slowly, but surely. We all sin today, and those who oppose Salvation sometimes appear happy n healthy. Satan could not have sinned and God Calling all creation that He Had Made "Very Good" at the point of 7th day's end. To be clear, that's where we differ 😌 The the Divine Judgment to both man and satanic serpent was synergistic 🤞 ... God Bless
@stephencastro4723
@stephencastro4723 2 жыл бұрын
@@johneymunayer8705 wrong. It doesn't mean that creation is "good" does it mean such creations are IMPECCABLE/FREE FROM SIN. All created things by nature are limited. Only the Divine being is perfect.
@johneymunayer8705
@johneymunayer8705 2 жыл бұрын
@@stephencastro4723 ok we disagree again 😌 and that's how e differ 👍 ◄ Genesis 1:31 ► And God Saw #everything that He Had Made, and behold, it was #Very_Good And there was evening and there was morning, the 6th day. 🖐☝️ ◄ Genesis 2:3 ► And God #BlessED the 7th day 🖐✌️& DeclarED it #Holy, bcuz it was (#PastTense) the day when He RestED from #ALL His Work of Creation. No pun intended for highlighting the words w # But we see how we disagree and why _GodBless ✌️
@stephencastro4723
@stephencastro4723 4 жыл бұрын
Historical-Critical Analysis destroys YEC.
@luvpamelanewton
@luvpamelanewton 5 жыл бұрын
Did you notice that God took the man He just made and put him into the Garden of Eden? He was inside of a contained place.
@JimDeferio
@JimDeferio 6 жыл бұрын
The author seems to be a firm believer in UNIFORMITARIANISM. He judges the past by the processes and life forms that he sees in the present age (which would include everything after the Fall). He assumes that the original populations were massive and appeared venomous, poisonous, and "red in tooth and claw' and then he equivocates using the word "evolution". EVERYTHING in time changes but to use a word for change and especially change brought about by the diversity inherent within a genome to mean macro-evolutionary change is eqivocation. This guy makes many unprovable assumptions and he shies away from a plain reading of the text in favor of eisegesis and bias confirmation with his select quotes from "experts". But why does he ignore the experts who disagree with him. I am wondering what his ultimate purpose is in doing this video. Of course there was animal death before the Flood but I don't see anything that indicates animal death before the Fall. The Hebrew can mean a wide range of things but some just choose that part which confirms their bias. For example. Ever hear some Christians talk about how God HATES? Sure, one can choose from among the various definitions of the Hebrew sane' (Strongs #8130) and claim that God "hates" people but the definition of the word ranges from "intense hatred" to "being set against" someone or something to "bitter disdain". If you are a KJV Only Baptist or a Calvinist then you may choose the "intense hatred" meaning. Sure, what's wrong with ignoring the context of the whole Bible.
@arachnophilia427
@arachnophilia427 6 жыл бұрын
Jim Deferio wait, did you delete your comment and repost it to remove my replies? what happened to embarrassing me in public debate?
@arachnophilia427
@arachnophilia427 6 жыл бұрын
Jim Deferio i told you; i'm using the biblical standard. it's not my fault you don't like the bible.
@JimDeferio
@JimDeferio 6 жыл бұрын
What is YOUR standard? You are an atheist so what standard does an atheist have? (I used to be an atheist so I know but I want YOU to be honest for once in your pathetic life.) Concerning the Bible, you cannot be trusted to accurately reflect a Bible standard and you have proven that with your comments and with taking "ra" in Isaiah 45:7 out of context and choosing what you think is the most damning definition for use as a straw man. I suspect that you are anti-semitic (perhaps even a self-loathing Jew). You just love to tear into the Jewish Scriptures, don't you. Do you also do this with the Qur'an or are you fearful of what Muslims may do to you?
@JimDeferio
@JimDeferio 6 жыл бұрын
I told you that until you answer my questions about what YOUR standards are for justice and epistemology (not what standard you happen to be using for commenting under this video) you will be wasting your time. You think I don't know about the straw man reply concerning Isaiah 45:7? LOL Now, answer my questions or I will delete you again.
@markdaniels1730
@markdaniels1730 5 жыл бұрын
The only reason you don't assume uniformitarianism is because you have to reject it in order to believe your fairy tales. Everyone assumes uniformitarianism when they are unbiased.
@linak7155
@linak7155 Жыл бұрын
Hello! The subject matter is very intriguing n I wish I could have heard the presentation in its fullness. The background music detracts from the narration and it doesn't help that the presenter is such a fast reader. I would hope the music could some how be edited out n the narrator could pause to take an occasional breath. Oy!😮
@jessebryant9233
@jessebryant9233 2 жыл бұрын
"...you knew you were not allowed." Dude, please...
@system.machine
@system.machine 5 жыл бұрын
Looks like most of the issues have already been noted by other people. One I did not see addressed, which is entirely ignored in the video (understandably since it would decimate the premise), is that God is not confined by time (time is one of His creations). Thus, God would have already seen that things would be corrupted, and plants and animals would need defensive and offensive abilities to survive what would be in the future. Thus...if God did not create animals with such...it would actually serve to prove that God is not truly who He is portrayed to be. Therefore, we should see animals having the defensive and offensive capabilities from creation...logically. Finding anything other than this would be illogical in respect to the biblical claims.
@thetruthchannel349
@thetruthchannel349 5 жыл бұрын
Thats a valid point. Just because an animal has venom does not mean the animal has a reason to use it. When the Lion lays down with the lamb which is symbolic but can also be applied literally since Chaos will be subdued the lion will have the ability, the muscle prowess, the hunger and the teeth to destroy the lamb and eat it. It just will not. I believe God put bits and pieces of Himself in every Created Thing. God HIMSELF has the ability to do harm but the fact HE DOES NOT is what makes HIM HOLY. Its his INTEGRITY and CHARACTER that separates Him from all other gods and even us.
@richiejourney1840
@richiejourney1840 5 жыл бұрын
It is also well known that venom is for digestive purposes as well. Thus venomous creatures may have only used it for plant digestion pre fall.
@kinanshmahell8065
@kinanshmahell8065 2 жыл бұрын
most predators cant digest plants because of their simple digestive tracks you are simply airing out your ignorance
@system.machine
@system.machine 2 жыл бұрын
@@kinanshmahell8065 "airing out your ignorance"...says the person making broadly generalized statements acting as if they are universally applicable to the situation in question...
@tedbates1236
@tedbates1236 5 жыл бұрын
I think Proverbs 12:10 reads, "A righteous man is concerned for the welfare of His beast. But even the kindness of a wicked man is cruel."
@Terrylb285
@Terrylb285 Жыл бұрын
Maybe the stinger on the scorpion was originally used to poke hole’s in its vegetable diet.Psalm 104:29-30 God allows animals to die and then creates more
@joshuavan8391
@joshuavan8391 5 жыл бұрын
Are you a theistic evolutionist? If so do you agree with John Walton’s views?
@christophersbyers
@christophersbyers 6 жыл бұрын
What an amazing and eye opening video, thank you!!
@BrianJuntunen
@BrianJuntunen 2 жыл бұрын
Adam was mortal even before he ate the fruit, he was going to die, unless he ate of the tree of life.
@EternityinOurHearts316
@EternityinOurHearts316 6 жыл бұрын
Remember Genesis says God "blessed" the animals too, not just man. There is no reconciling God's blessing of the animals and believing that involved their violent deaths especially when you consider the weightiness of the word "bless" in Genesis. Consider the implications of the word when God tells Abraham he will bless all nations through his offspring. The word hadn't been used since creation. It implies the eternal life that God promised through Christ which came from Abraham's seed.
@EternityinOurHearts316
@EternityinOurHearts316 6 жыл бұрын
The word bless typically communicates happiness and welfare. You're defining it very narrowly here and ignoring its common meaning. www.gotquestions.org/blessing-Bible.html
@bens7686
@bens7686 6 жыл бұрын
The blessing in Genesis 1.28 is immediately preceded by the declaration of the creation of the two sexes. It is then immediately defined by their capacity of reproduction. The same delimiting formula defines the blessing of the animals in 1.22 with regards to their capacity for reproduction.
@arachnophilia427
@arachnophilia427 6 жыл бұрын
pixels and papyrus indeed the blessing in genesis is pretty universally applied to progeny; children, the tree of (creative/sexual) knowledge, as a replacement for the tree of life.
@EternityinOurHearts316
@EternityinOurHearts316 6 жыл бұрын
arachnophilia that is one aspect of it but it is not an exclusive meaning of the word bless.
@arachnophilia427
@arachnophilia427 6 жыл бұрын
Eternity in Our Hearts no, but it is by and large the theme in genesis. ultimately the blessing is the torah.
@nobunaga86
@nobunaga86 6 жыл бұрын
from the creation museum's view, wouldn't most of the animals depectid not exist until after the flood when they hyper-evolved from their shared common ancestor kind?
@tinaspringer651
@tinaspringer651 6 жыл бұрын
but see that's your misunderstanding by expecting anything about creationism to make sense
@mrniusi11
@mrniusi11 6 жыл бұрын
old earth or young earth, evolution is false.
@thetruthchannel349
@thetruthchannel349 5 жыл бұрын
Hyper-evolved??? LOL. Haha??? Dude? You serious? Nothing hyper-evolves. Theres a little known and little talked about paper that was released by Arizona State Univ in Aug of 2013 that not only DISPROVES 'hyperevolution' but pretty much destroys the idea of Speciation which is why no one has heard of it. I have because I keep a look out for little gems like this I know the Academic world will intentionally overlook because it just aint good for business.
@thetruthchannel349
@thetruthchannel349 5 жыл бұрын
"Mr. Niu Si10 months ago old earth or young earth, evolution is false" I WOULD HAVE TO ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH THIS.
@davevice9819
@davevice9819 8 ай бұрын
Maybe the flood was regional.
@TheRachaelLefler
@TheRachaelLefler 5 жыл бұрын
How come you don't link to your book? I can't very well search for "Bible Scholar Ben S" and get your book specifically. You should at least have it in your "About" section of your channel.
@TheRachaelLefler
@TheRachaelLefler 5 жыл бұрын
Also, I notice this is in the "People and Blogs" category, you would probably get more views, which I think you deserve, if you put it in the Religion category.
@bens7686
@bens7686 5 жыл бұрын
Thank you for your comment. The book has been written for nearly a year now, but has still not been released by the publisher. Once it is, I will be promoting it on the channel.
@toonrex2806
@toonrex2806 Жыл бұрын
Can you do a video about the passage in Revelation 21 where there was no sea in the New Heaven and Earth? If it should be taken literal or symbolically.
@Shirohige33
@Shirohige33 6 жыл бұрын
That was a REALLY disturbing video.Not because of emotional reasons but mostly for i suspect your own personal justification reasons.I am not a young earth creationist,i am a mere Christian.You made some historical mistakes however.T-Rex was mostly scavenger and not a serious hunter,certainly of course was not a vegetarian lol. Genesis 1:29 EXPLICITLY COMMANDS Adam and Eve NOT TO EAT MEAT.End of discussion,it doesn't matter the previous passage unless was a direct contradiction,For example a command to eat meat.It seems to me that you got so hyped about your conclusions (and maybe the conslusions form these scholars) that you are going to have a hyperorgasmic obsession of having a juicy steak directly after you made that video. Do you REALLY suggest that the word subdue means to utterly exploit,kill,torture (especially nowdays with the horribly cruel methods of factory farming) animals for our own selfish gluttonous drives???? Especially now that we're not neanderthals anymore and we can easily live and thrive at least on a vegetarian diet (certainly on full plant based also but lets stick with the vegetarian). Does this video gives you personal justification for the ecological destruction that factory farm practises impose on the planet,not to mention the absolutelly unacceptable treatment of these peacefull creatures OF CREATION??? The ONLY way this interpretation can be accepted from a Christian who believes in a HOLY GOD is that it was a temporary measure and a necessary measure UNTIL man became technologically advanced enough and STOP abusing animals for work,leather and clothes,and even food in our day.There is NO possible world that Jesus would CONDONE the terrorizing methods the human species put forward in order to satisfy human taste needs and gluttonous drives when it comes down to the use of animals.I f you REALLY believe that then you should rethink your concept of God.Despite the fact that i AM NOT A Young earther the moral of the story IS STEWARDSHIP IS ECOLOGICAL CONSCIENCE,why on Earth God would bring the animals to Adam in order to name them?After the story of the fall takes place THEN ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE,and THEN God ALLOWS meat eating,NOT DEMANDS,BUT ALLOWS.Just like he ALLOWED the divorce he did not DEMAND IT.With your thinking then God SHOULD HAVE given flyning meatballs insted of manna during Exodus.You should try to tell the animal eating stuff to the monks at the monasteries brother and the many Jewish Rabbi's who can CLEARLY see the compassion to animals in MANY Bible verses.It wouldn't make me wonder with your interpretation if Jesus during the Last Supper had said,take and eat THIS,this is my body,and instead of BREAD he gave a steak (after all our bodies ARE flesh).
@bens7686
@bens7686 6 жыл бұрын
Na, I think the message of ecological stewardship can be drawn from other texts. In this video, and in a slide in my most recent video, I've listed and surveyed *every single hit* in the Bible of kavash and radah (so you can easily just go look them all up on your own if you don't believe me). There is no way to derive anything but violent connotation from the conjunction of those two words. If that's offensive, your issue is with the biblical author, not me.
@edinshealtiel3754
@edinshealtiel3754 6 жыл бұрын
No it is with you.....
@hannajung7512
@hannajung7512 6 жыл бұрын
Jotun Heim we know for sure from healed bite marks on prey animals, that T. Rex was a hunter, also his whole build up is that of a long distance runner/sprinter. But... he also ate dead carcasses, that died from other means. A bit like most carnivores of the mammalia do. He ate what ever flesh he could get, and it didn't matter if this flesh still tryed to move away.
@robertnorthrup5415
@robertnorthrup5415 6 жыл бұрын
great topic this is. many good arguments. One thing I am quite sure of and that everyone seems to miss is that dinosaurs never existed! I know that sounds silly in our day but do the research and you will see that they were a fabrication.
@reginaldodonoghue9253
@reginaldodonoghue9253 6 жыл бұрын
T. rex was not a scavenger, the scavenger option cannot explain HEALED T. rex bite marks on Edmontosaurus bones, implying the Rex attacked the Edmontosaur
@EternityinOurHearts316
@EternityinOurHearts316 6 жыл бұрын
Also many animals appear to be designed to eat meat but don't. Panda Bears have sharp teeth. Dogs have intimidating teeth but are content eating dog food that has no meat. One lion was even known to eat only vegetables. Ever heard of carrion butterflies? We don't normally think of butterflies as drinking blood but some do-even though we know that God designed them to drink nectar. Isn't it possible that the original design can be used for other purposes when an original food source (plant) goes extinct or no longer contains the nutrients it used to because of the cursed ground? creation.com/the-lion-that-wouldnt-eat-meat
@reginaldodonoghue9253
@reginaldodonoghue9253 6 жыл бұрын
That Lion is clearly abnormal, there is a reason why virtually all lions do eat meat. Even the teeth of a panda are different from that of a Lion
@Critter145
@Critter145 5 жыл бұрын
Eternity in Our Hearts agreed. Tooth morphology is NO INDICATOR of diet.
@galaxyrider9599
@galaxyrider9599 5 жыл бұрын
I agree. Another example is flying foxes. Look at their fangs! But they are fruit-eaters.
@slukky
@slukky 5 жыл бұрын
All that proves is that there's an anomaly in the lion world. Not good enough. Dogs will eat herbs & grass, but not exclusively. Same w/ cats. What's the point? I don't get the argument here, unless I'm being a blockhead. Possible, I admit it.
@chn8256
@chn8256 4 жыл бұрын
C Ritter TRUTH
@Mr_A1-37
@Mr_A1-37 4 жыл бұрын
What video program do use to make your videos?
@The_New_Jerusalem_Reigns
@The_New_Jerusalem_Reigns 5 жыл бұрын
Premise 1: Nothing evil can originate from the perfect source of goodness. Premise 2: God is the perfect source of goodness. Premise 3/4 Death is an enemy of God, and All enemies of God are evil. Therefore death is evil. 1 Corinthians ‭15:26‬ ‭ESV‬ “The last enemy to be destroyed is death.” Therefore, death cannot originate from God. Premise 5: Theistic evolution has God using evolution to create the universe. Premise 6: Evolution requires death. Therefore, If God used evolution to create the universe then death would have originated from him. Also I know God caused the curse because Adam and Eve broke the covenant. But God gave a command and since God is just we know the punishment is just. The punishment originates from God and everything that originates from God is just and not evil. How we can know if something can’t originate God is if he says it in his word. He says death is his enemy so that is how we know it can’t originate from him. Everything God does is good, because God is the source of goodness. God uses sin, death, suffering, and the second death for his purposes. Therefore, they are good actions of God. Using something for your purpose and creating something is different. God’s creation originates from him therefore he created everything perfect. Anything God creates originates from him so if God created death then it originates from him. But nothing evil can originate from him. Because the fall does not originate from him he can use it however he wants to. Possible objection: God created hell so it originates from him. Everything done in hell by God is because of righteous indignation as punishment for the ungodly. Hell is never said to be evil. What you have to argue is in 1 Corinthians 15:26 it is referring to human death and not animal death. But Revelation ‭21:4‬ ‭ESV “He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away."”‬ This verse shows that everything bad is done away way with we know this includes animal death because animal death is sad. Well I guess this doesn’t prove 1 Corinthians 15:26 means human and animal death so I will give an argument animals are resurrected. Premise 1: All animal seed is sown. 1 Corinthians 15:38-39 ESV “But God gives it a body as he has chosen, and to each kind of seed its own body. For not all flesh is the same, but there is one kind for humans, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish.” (The seed represents the body.) (All animal seed is sown, because seed is sown as a natural body, and animals have natural bodies.) Premise 2: All sown seed is raised. (The analogy is we are just a bare kernel (a seed) in are natural bodies awaiting for are seed to decay and sprout and for us to get are glorified bodies. Since animal bodies are represented as seed the analogy would apply to them.) 1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:37‬ ‭ESV‬‬ “And what you sow is not the body that is to be, but a bare kernel, perhaps of wheat or of some other grain.” 1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:42-44‬ ‭ESV‬‬ “So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.” Since animals will be resurrected and death will be defeated 1 Corinthians 15:26 includes animals.
@aqilshamil9633
@aqilshamil9633 2 жыл бұрын
They really should made an anime based upon The Fall
@sethdossett1304
@sethdossett1304 5 жыл бұрын
i have question about sacrifice, if animals death and blood were for a remission of sin, then it would seem that this substitute of death for human sin would be insignificant, because we were already killing animals prior to sin? It just doesn't seem to be much of a loss. Also a scorpion for your point made may not be viewed as dealth like higher animals. We do not hold the view that insects like a scorpion hold the same level of consciousness(similar to plants), God does not view it as a viable option for sacrifice. If animals just died all the time and we killed to eat prior to the fall, why would sacrificing an animal be anything significant?
@Lvx66
@Lvx66 5 жыл бұрын
You failed to prove your point. You emphasize the violence implied in "subdue". However, the passage cited specifies the Earth to be subdued, not animals. Instead, dominion ("rule") is given over animals; as in king, guardian, keeper as opposed to butcher.
@bens7686
@bens7686 5 жыл бұрын
I'll answer this since it's the most common objection I get: 1) This objection assumes Van Ee's doctoral thesis, vetted by leading academic Semitists at a major university and informed by every major commentary on these verses in multiple languages, failed to recognize and address this objection. That assumption is false. 2) The preceding verse in 1:26 defines this mastery over the earth in relation to the ruling of animals: "Let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle *and over all the earth,* and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." 2) Since 1:26 refers to the "ruling" of "all the earth," the consequential phrase "subduing the earth" in 1:28 is intended as a synonym with "ruling"--meaning it is harshly valenced. Conceptual synonymy between these words is necessarily the case if 1:28 is to be considered a fulfillment of God's stated intentions in 1:26. 3) The term "subdue" aside, all 26 instances of the term "rule" רדה also refer exclusively to connotations of harsh dominion in relation to its etymology for treading underfoot. So, if one wants to say that the use of the term "rule" in these verses only refers to being a "king-guardian-keeper," they must be ok with the fact that their interpretation contradicts every other use of the term in the Hebrew Bible. On slide 15:33 in the linked video, I've even painstakingly summarized *every single* use of the term in the Bible for those who doubt this. The original vegetarianism view of Genesis 1 is based on homiletic church tradition, not ancient Hebrew lexicography. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/bs5jZreqr9Hep4U.html
@Jim-Mc
@Jim-Mc 4 ай бұрын
What do you think of the idea man was to subdue the earth because an angelic fall had already corrupted nature prior to the garden being established? This fits with the Adam as priest narrative as it was his job to subdue and restore creation.
@HarmonicWave
@HarmonicWave Жыл бұрын
Someone pointed out in another video that the statement in Genesis 1 is actually saying that the fruits, green plants, as well as the animals are for us to eat (before the fall). It wouldn't make much sense to tell Adam and Eve that the fruits and plants were for them to eat and also for the animals to eat; God was speaking to the humans, why bother telling them what is food for the animals? This also has to do with the priesthood system that was from the beginning. The appointed feast days, offerings, and fellowship meals included meat, even before sin entered the picture; they didn't start with Moses, he just restored them because Israel had forgotten God's ways.
@Rocksaplenty
@Rocksaplenty 5 жыл бұрын
TO CUT TREES NOT MELONS.
@No-More-Idols
@No-More-Idols 4 жыл бұрын
Nah.... it says subdue the “earth” and then secondly rule over the fish etc...
@bryanparedes6258
@bryanparedes6258 3 ай бұрын
When Animals were killed for sin offering, the flesh was not left out, it was burnt🙃
@knightofgod5368
@knightofgod5368 4 жыл бұрын
What are your thoughts on the passage after that says that God will give every green plant to everything that has the breath of life in it?
@stephencastro4723
@stephencastro4723 3 жыл бұрын
This is the verse that the YEC Heretics twist to support their false teaching. Romans 5:12 " Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned." They assume that death only come to creation when Adam sinned. But was that the text really say? The text say, DEATH PASSED UPON ALL MEN FOR ALL HAVE SINNED. It only means that death being a consequence of sin only apply to humans, not animals and other creation.
@EternityinOurHearts316
@EternityinOurHearts316 6 жыл бұрын
8:30 The reason it mentions fish, birds and land animals is because those are the three categories of all living creatures God created. It's just another way of saying that Adam has total authority over *all* the creatures.
@tinaspringer651
@tinaspringer651 6 жыл бұрын
or at another way of showing that the authors of the book had very primitive knowledge of the animals on Earth and why we should see the Bible for nothing more then it's literary relevancy and stop giving it magical powers and it clearly does not have. The book is full of Fairy Tail fantasy ridiculousness that should indicate to nobody that some perfect all-knowing being was involved in its writing. all I see when I read the Bible is the ignorance of the time. This is why you never see anything in there that was later discovered only the ignorant understanding of primitive goat herders at the time. you surely don't see any God like knowledge. I mean come on kid are you ever going to stop living in this Fantasy Land and come into the real world?
@EternityinOurHearts316
@EternityinOurHearts316 6 жыл бұрын
Tina Springer your amazing love and logic has blown me away. Wow you're so right. I'm so glad you've shown me the truth. Now I can make myself feel better about my insecurities by berating and ridiculing people on KZfaq just like you.
@reginaldodonoghue9253
@reginaldodonoghue9253 6 жыл бұрын
But why give Adam authority over 'all' the creatures?
@LogosTheos
@LogosTheos 6 жыл бұрын
Tina Springer At this point you are just as low IQ as Young Earth creationists when it comes to understanding the Old Testament.
@thetruthchannel349
@thetruthchannel349 5 жыл бұрын
"The book is full of Fairy Tail fantasy" IS THE EXISTENCE OF ISRAEL or the WORLD'S HATRED for IT A FANTASY?
@nicolassantiagoortega5474
@nicolassantiagoortega5474 Жыл бұрын
4:05 Genesis 1: 29-30
@designed4freedom
@designed4freedom 3 жыл бұрын
Well, for one thing, you have to give Ham at least partial credit for the dank slow-jam he rolled with for a backer to his Didn't Eat Meat explanation. Maybe Ben, @SentinelApologetics, @InspiringPhilosophy, etc, could try sliding Chuck Mangione into y'alls ancient near east Hebrew jams kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mt2bqs2AyZ2xc4k.html
@ericthatankn8704
@ericthatankn8704 5 жыл бұрын
He created all things to work together for good venom before the flood was not poisonous but was used as nutrition.
@richiejourney1840
@richiejourney1840 5 жыл бұрын
Like in digestion aid.
@jordancox8294
@jordancox8294 4 жыл бұрын
You know this how?
@baruchbobo9993
@baruchbobo9993 2 ай бұрын
I have to repost this after I send it to my friend. If you know what I mean.
@elijahlyngdoh8498
@elijahlyngdoh8498 11 ай бұрын
My Question On Isaiah 11 when it talks about Animal Peace: Since the Theology is from Blessing and Curses and Not from Genesis which I understand, Don't you think that this can apply to ALL Animals on Earth in the Kingdom Living in Peace Together With Humans cause it says Knowledge of God will Be all Over The Earth????????????
@Jamie-Russell-CME
@Jamie-Russell-CME 5 жыл бұрын
Are you aware that snake venom and other neurotoxins are proteins that seem to be changed in a specific way and when compared to one another, they can all be seen as originally similiar to digestive enzymes and the like Hence the many studies being done with snake venom, and experiments to modify them for beneficial use. Why are their carnivores which are only known to survive on specific vegetation? Yet they are categorized as such? It indicates the traits which are recognized as indicators for carnivorous classifications are not certain and these physical characteristics are clearly used for other activities and diets. I.e. koala, panda, etc. Male misquitos, having the same blood sucking appendage as the larger females uses it's blood sucking syringe to do nothing but suck plant sap for food. Yet the females suck blood. After the fall, seasons came into the yearly cycle, likely shutting down sources if nutrition for the propagation of many species. Adapt or die. Mosquitos adapted to less available nutrition, and the females steal it parasitically from the blood of warm blooded mammals to find the needed supplementary nutrients to lay successful eggs for the next generation Many ocean dwelling parasites have been studied and found that when certain areas of their genome are activated they no longer live as parasites in the stomachs of other animals but have their own body plans and resemble crustaceans or crab like creatures. I could go on and on. We have been brainwashed by "nature red in tooth and claw" ideas from the cradle. Don't be so sure and scoffing to those who take God's word plainly as written. Jesus asked, "Have you not read?.... It is written!" He seems to think we can read and comprehend with out difficulty on what God has shared with us.
@thesuperghost3272
@thesuperghost3272 5 жыл бұрын
LOL no male mosquitos also FUCKING SUCK BLOOD are YOU FUCKING STUPID?????? like seriously get your entire bullshit ass comment out of here and you wanted to debate IP IP would have rekt your lil headass brah
@richiejourney1840
@richiejourney1840 5 жыл бұрын
The SuperGhost “Mosquito mouthparts are very specialized, particularly those of the females, which in most species are adapted to piercing skin and then sucking blood. Apart from bloodsucking, the females generally also drink assorted fluids rich in dissolved sugar, such as nectar and honeydew, to obtain the energy they need. For this, their blood-sucking mouthparts are perfectly adequate. In contrast, male mosquitoes are not bloodsuckers; they only drink sugary fluids. Accordingly, their mouthparts do not require the same degree of specialization as those of females.[55]” Wiki
@zeogen
@zeogen 4 жыл бұрын
The premise that everything was immortal before the fall conflicts with the text in Genesis where the gods feared that the Adamah would then take fruit from the tree of life and live forever. That’s why they were cast out… “Then the LORD God said: See! The man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil! Now, what if he also reaches out his hand to take fruit from the tree of life, and eats of it and lives forever? The LORD God therefore banished him from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he had been taken. He expelled the man, stationing the cherubim and the fiery revolving sword east of the garden of Eden, to guard the way to the tree of life.” ‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:22-24‬ ‭
@TheExastrologer
@TheExastrologer 5 жыл бұрын
God says the earth was made for human habitation; therefore, it is illogical to think there were thousands, millions, etc. of years before man lived on earth. What purpose would it serve God to have nothing but an earth with beasts killing each other and no man to know and glorify God? This is what convinces me that the earth is not that old, and that man in his fallen state cannot continue for long due to his self-destruction. The fact that we have even made it this far is due to God's grace. I hold to a 6 day creation, especially because this is repeated by God in Exodus 20 and there is nothing in the text indicating symbolic language or metaphor.
@evallisalyngdoh8713
@evallisalyngdoh8713 4 жыл бұрын
Hey im a Thesistic Evolutionist and I wanted Does God Love Animals and What Bible verse says that and does he respond to Animal Cruelty and Does Pslam 145 proves that and is He Compassion and Gracious to them how do Will people be Judge If They show Animal Cruelty and Why do Christians Don't care about this. Im a Christian. And if God hates Animals Why
@christfollower5713
@christfollower5713 3 жыл бұрын
Evolution is not true man and his view on Cruelity towards animals is not God's view i dont even know how one can escape Isaiah 11 and 65 in proving that Original creation was in harmony and peace together with no harm , it is already proving from the text, all i see is just twisting the text and theology to fit their case for Evolution , they just need to do this to defend Evolution but u dont need to do that ....
@305thief8
@305thief8 3 жыл бұрын
Check out InspiringPhilosophy he is and Theistic Evolutionist maybe he can help. Also dont listen to those who say u cant believe in evolution
@305thief8
@305thief8 3 жыл бұрын
@@christfollower5713 Read some scholarship lol
@christfollower5713
@christfollower5713 3 жыл бұрын
@@305thief8 you trust the philosophy of authorities ? I read all the time by the way and i dont buy it ..
@305thief8
@305thief8 3 жыл бұрын
@@christfollower5713 Yes authorites who studied the Bible in its ancient historical context and language. Its said Paul quoted Greek works to convince the Greeks. I also remember somewhere in the NT it states u should put urself in the understanding of another to try and convince them. If that the case why not read scholarship. u are promoting ignorance.
@PuerinTheHunter
@PuerinTheHunter 5 жыл бұрын
Dude, the Bible says humans lived hundreds of years and yet you're stuck thinking that scorpions couldn't be much different than what scorpions are today... How in the world would you think all the animals in the ark didn't eat each other if you still think they were not all vegetarians? All your argumentation is built on the unfounded assumption that "life hasn't changed since Noah".
@slukky
@slukky 5 жыл бұрын
Hmmm, good point. All I can think is that God somehow pacified all of them till they got off the ark.
@jordancox8294
@jordancox8294 4 жыл бұрын
When the Bible speaks of humans living hundreds of years, that isn't literal.
@tan1591
@tan1591 4 жыл бұрын
He also failed to explain the verse. If it’s created in a such a way then it’s how it’s created. Also micro evolution is created by God. Not macro. So can change animals as he likes. Like he did to the serpent.
@joshelxiour1404
@joshelxiour1404 3 жыл бұрын
@@jordancox8294 so explain how it is metaphor?
@Greatscott-gq5xm
@Greatscott-gq5xm 2 жыл бұрын
@@joshelxiour1404 The maker of this video has a book called (mis) interpreting genesis, there's a section that explains how the ages are symbolic.
@ElasticGiraffe
@ElasticGiraffe 6 жыл бұрын
Wow, really good video.
@yolandosoquite3507
@yolandosoquite3507 5 жыл бұрын
The Garden, an enclosed place, is one of the 2 incorruptible places in our universe, the other place is Heaven. This is from the Book of Jubilees...Incorruptible means no death, no producing babies/young for all living things(animals included) is going on(companionship only), eating perhaps every six month only- the produce of the Tree of life. Only 1 command -no eating from the Tree of Wisdom..This is the state of affairs inside the Garden or before the Fall...After the Fall or outside the Garden are corruptible places..thus the Creator added more instructions. This time make babies and no more Tree of Life for man and animals..etc etc..
@luvpamelanewton
@luvpamelanewton 5 жыл бұрын
There is something you are not taking into account with the command that Adam and Eve are being told the vegetation and seed producing plants are their food. That was their food source. They are inside the garden of Eden and not outside of it. God puts the man into the garden of Eden after he is made. It is a certain place. This is before they sinned. The animals there were vegetation eating types too. They were contained in a certain place, not yet expelled and driven out. This is the habitat inside the garden of Eden. Adam and Eve were different prior to sin and lost their original nature too. They physically were different in nature. The coats of skin they get after sinning you assume is animal flesh from another animal, when it is our physical skin they get. Our anatomy changed after we sinned. The scorpion and wild beasts are not in the garden. Nothing that eats flesh is inside the garden. All predatory animals are outside the garden on the surface of the earth where man now has to try to survive after he is expelled and his dietary habits over time change. It is made clear it is part of his fallen nature and is part of the corruption of the earth when he eats begins eating flesh from the influence of fallen angels who were mixing with man that leads to the flood. God makes animals afraid of man after the flood and a source of food in addition to whatever fruits and vegetables we can grow. The garden of eden is nowhere to be found by us either.
@TitusCastiglione1503
@TitusCastiglione1503 2 жыл бұрын
…where did you get the idea that Adam and Eve physically changed after their fall? I have literally never heard that. I’m gonna have to ask for a source.
@luvpamelanewton
@luvpamelanewton 2 жыл бұрын
@@TitusCastiglione1503 Sure. Because they had to wear skins after and lost their ability to have eternal life. Hence they could die. Before that, there was no issue of death and they were in paradise. Now to be in paradise or heaven, flesh and blood cannot enter. You have to put on new nature to enter. You have to be what we were once before the fall. When Jesus appeared before the apostles after his resurrection, He was able to eat with them. Scripture says flesh and blood cannot enter. So something happened that changed man after the fall and we could no longer go back.
@user-xn2qv1tg5w
@user-xn2qv1tg5w 6 ай бұрын
wow@@luvpamelanewton
@shadowsrose4978
@shadowsrose4978 6 жыл бұрын
In depth debate for a question with an obvious and ignored answer.
@expiringphilosophy7605
@expiringphilosophy7605 6 жыл бұрын
This is fantastic. Where do you go to school? (Or where did you go to school?)
@bens7686
@bens7686 6 жыл бұрын
Thanks Josh. Boyce College of the Southern Baptist Seminary
@expiringphilosophy7605
@expiringphilosophy7605 6 жыл бұрын
Oh cool, I know people who went there. Or at least, I've met people online. Anyway, yeah, I'll definitely recommend your channel to my friends, and try and grab a copy of your book when it comes out. Good on you, mate.
@reggie33
@reggie33 5 жыл бұрын
the t-Rex and such may not have been of GODs original line up and were the results of the fallen playing with the genetics of available creatures so the directions that were given may have absolutely been correct and to point
@Navii-05
@Navii-05 3 жыл бұрын
I am not a YEC, but can someone explain why then there ever was animal death if it is not a consequence of the fall? I am interested in the moral aspect of it.
@johneymunayer8705
@johneymunayer8705 2 жыл бұрын
kzfaq.info/get/bejne/fM1pkr2f1NDcnYk.html No one can look at this and not cringe & id bet all would applaud if the deer got free from the bear - this is survival of the fittest. Was this included in God's all-inclusive "Very Good" Stamp of Approval and Blessed the Day (7) w/ that painful violent system? Did God, then, invent survival of the fittest - is that "Very Good"? Why couldnt the hungry dear eat the bear? #Selah No. But instead, such scenes were after the 7th day resulting in the later fall of #Gen3. The Bible Says "Creation groans" as if waiting for its liberation (why?) #Rom8 OEC must maintain that the God of the Bible Endorses survival of the fittest as "Very Good", "Blessed" and even "Holy" (Days 6 & 7) Did u know some storks kill their offspring? kzfaq.info/get/bejne/arebrdqJsraonn0.html Why is it the babies being killed vs the bay killing n eating it's parent? #SurvivalOfTheFittest #NoGood #CreationGroans #JesusSaves #WaitingOnJesusReturn #Maranatha
@spitfiremase
@spitfiremase 4 жыл бұрын
Tell me about ecological stewardship from the Bible but using other not these texts pls
@nicolassantiagoortega5474
@nicolassantiagoortega5474 Жыл бұрын
8:50 Genesis 9: 1-5
@nicholas3354
@nicholas3354 5 жыл бұрын
I'm quite sure Isaiah was speaking of Spiritual fact, not physical fact; this is nearly always the case with prophecy. It's a total misnomer to call prophecy "hyperbole" because there is zero exaggeration, rather the facts are Spiritual. Much love. Christ be to you.
@chipan9191
@chipan9191 5 жыл бұрын
Nicholas Whitmire hyperbole was used concerning the prophesy of the devastation of Tyre. It was said that it would be completely destroyed and no one would build there ever again. That’s hyperbole in use, and in fact is what we might know today as trash talking. It would be presumptuous for you to say it’s “literally true, but concerning the spiritual” when the city still stands to this day... one would ask what then it is referring to? And also, not all prophesy is concerning the spiritual. When Jesus prophesied he would “destroy this temple and raise it up in three days” he of course wasn’t referring to the temple as they understood it, but was also not referring to the spiritual either. He was referring to the temple of his own body. As we all know, the body is not spirit.
@duckymomo7935
@duckymomo7935 6 жыл бұрын
yes, it's true: animals died before the fall how else would Adam know what God was talking about if there was no example of death?
@edinshealtiel3754
@edinshealtiel3754 6 жыл бұрын
how do you know and you have not died yet.......ooooh stupid points...
@ubivermiscerritulus195
@ubivermiscerritulus195 5 жыл бұрын
Exactly my thoughts, it is clear a great many things have been misinterpreted by the fundamentalists who are fundamentally wrong.
@thetruthchannel349
@thetruthchannel349 5 жыл бұрын
Physical death came as the result of Spiritual death. You idiots mock Fundamentals of Spirituality you DO NOT UNDERSTAND and therefore have NO RIGHT not only to criticize but to discuss. If you do NOT UNDERSTAND the BASICS of SPIRITOLOGY you do not have a place at the table of discussion pertaining to it.
@richiejourney1840
@richiejourney1840 5 жыл бұрын
There is propositional knowledge and then there is experiential knowledge. Guess which one Adam and Eve had prior to the Fall?
@Hesse3
@Hesse3 6 жыл бұрын
Thank you for taking this discussion. I see that velicoraptors were naked before the fall as well (later, they got feathers).
@Hesse3
@Hesse3 2 жыл бұрын
@Pinko Slink "Some nonavian theropod dinosaurs were at least partially covered in feathers or filamentous protofeathers. However, a complete understanding of feather distribution among theropod dinosaurs is limited because feathers are typically preserved only in lagerstätten like that of Solnhofen, Germany or Liaoning, China. Such deposits possess clear taphonomic biases toward small-bodied animals, limiting our knowledge regarding feather presence in larger members of feathered clades. We present direct evidence of feathers in Velociraptor mongoliensis based on the presence of quill knobs on the posterior forearm. This report of secondaries in a larger-bodied, derived, and clearly flightless member of a nonavian theropod clade represented by feathered relatives is a substantial contribution to our knowledge of the evolution of feathers." Turner et al, Science, Vol 317, (5845), p. 1721 I may not be able to fully evaluate this, but it does not appear that anybody has refuted this finding in the intermediate 15 years. So at present, there seems to be evidence.
@angeloskyriakides542
@angeloskyriakides542 5 жыл бұрын
interesting points raised, but not very persuasive exegesis, despite the gymnastics involved.
@slukky
@slukky 5 жыл бұрын
Either it's exegesis or eisogesis. Or complete fallacy. What is it, Ang?
@stephencastro4723
@stephencastro4723 4 жыл бұрын
We need more videos that expose the nonsense of Young Earth Creationism Heresy.
@No-More-Idols
@No-More-Idols 4 жыл бұрын
Stephen Castro Love.....
@petery6432
@petery6432 2 жыл бұрын
Calling it Heresy is overboard. Just leave it at wrong.
@stephencastro4723
@stephencastro4723 2 жыл бұрын
@@petery6432 it is heresy because the issue of the age of the earth and literal interpretation of Genesis is not a core tenet of the Early Christian faith.
@petery6432
@petery6432 2 жыл бұрын
@@stephencastro4723 I don't think that Ken Ham and Co think that non-YECs are not saved. They insist that the Bible must be literal, but I don't think that they believe metaphorical interpreters are damned. Actually heresy risks your eternal soul, and how you interpret Genesis does not risk it.
@stephencastro4723
@stephencastro4723 2 жыл бұрын
@@petery6432 they accuse those who believe differently form them as compromisers and pagans. Stop making excuse for this organization.
@oida10000
@oida10000 6 жыл бұрын
So do they think that God created the lion and the shark and even the T-Rex as we know them today or completely different?
@Jamie-Russell-CME
@Jamie-Russell-CME 5 жыл бұрын
You don't get to take the usage of "subdue and rule" from post fall texts and import that context and it's usage, into the pre fall garden. That is a perfect example of using out of context definitions.
@bens7686
@bens7686 5 жыл бұрын
The radical opposite is true. Genesis 1 was edited in the Babylonian period (it opens in the syntax structure of a Mesopotamian creation text). I.e. it is written centuries after the occurrences of these terms in other Biblical literature and certainly its Akkadian cognates. That means by the time Genesis 1 was written these terms were already defined with harsh associations, which is why the conquest narratives, edited in the same period as Genesis 1 employed them for the military defeat of Canaan. In his day there were non-violent terms the author of Genesis 1 could have used, but he didn't. If an author wants to be understood by his readers he cannot use common words with made up new definitions unknown to anyone else in his culture. This objection is also circular because its uniquely proposed definitions of these terms in a single passage starts from the assumption that P believed violent conquest upon the animal world is evil, but that is the very assumption under question.
@thesithempire1348
@thesithempire1348 5 жыл бұрын
@@bens7686 Except that Genesis was written by Moses based on older sources, such as the five books of Enoch (aka. 1 Enoch--which evidence shows was written by the patriarch: see The Book of Enoch, by RI Burns), which make it very clear that the Nephilim sinned against the animals by killing and eating them (Enoch 7:5). This would hardly be a sin if humans had previously been allowed to do the same. Additionally, the editing you refer to goes both ways, as Jeremiah 7:22-24 makes it clear that God did not command the Israelites to use animals as burnt offerings, indicating (as per Jeremiah 8:8) that the first four chapters of Leviticus were priestly/scribal emendations added centuries later.
@slukky
@slukky 5 жыл бұрын
Rule of first mention. Where will one go to understand the word KAW-bosh then? After all, most of the Torah was written well after the fact, & not even entirely by Moses (an Egyptian name), unless he penned it after his demise. I thought the explanation was fair. I'm not a linguist, but I do try to keep an open mind when presented challenges by brethren. Not an essential doctrine anyway. "In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; & in all things, charity." Too bad Augustine never lived up to this dictum.
@j.gstudios4576
@j.gstudios4576 2 жыл бұрын
@@slukky To understand the word look at how it is used all around the bible? Like they do with every other word in the bible
@j.gstudios4576
@j.gstudios4576 2 жыл бұрын
@@thesithempire1348 your not joking are you?
@yaladal7392
@yaladal7392 5 жыл бұрын
12:41 its wolf and lamb now post mandela effect
@churchclothes1
@churchclothes1 Ай бұрын
Nothing died before the Fall. Death did not exist until after Adam sinned. Of course to believe that, you would have to accept a young earth. At best, Adam lived less than 50 years before he sinned. So from creation to the fall was a very short time. There would have been no time for death to happen in such a short timeframe. This is apparent if one believes the Bible. Those who reject the Bible find many ways to insert death or long timeframes.
@thetruthchannel349
@thetruthchannel349 5 жыл бұрын
I think presenting an argument as fact by trying to compare to one that is false is just as bad as the presumption of falsehood concerning the contrasting argument. The fact the Creation Museum presents death in animals as the result of the fall of Adam Scripture does not. in fact, in Scripture the entire Bible opens up after verse 1 to a state of Judgement and Death. The garden was a type and shadow of Christ. We also see this imagery used in Psalm 23. Adam was the first man created in God's image. Theres a reason God was put in a special place where God could walk with him without any need for a priest, or a priestly washing or sanctification. Adam was literally a mirror of God Himself. NOWHERE does the Word of God indicate that death came upon NATURE because of Adam's sin. It merely indicates that death came on mankind because of Adam's sin. This is a fault I see in those trying to treat the Bible as an Academic work which would mean it would have to be a CARNAL representation meaning it would have to be NATURALISTIC which UTTERY contradicts what the Word of God states concerning HIMSELF and ITSELF. Im really concerned about this new wave of INTELLECTUALISM which is just as bad and just as dangerous as FLAT EARTH and KING JAMES ONLYISM.
@anrose8335
@anrose8335 4 жыл бұрын
So, I was brought up to believe that even a little child could understand the Bible. Apparently not. Or she would have to be a genius.
@bens7686
@bens7686 4 жыл бұрын
Even a child can understand and enjoy Homer's Odyssey. However, the book is so sophisticated and historically-linguistically contextualized that a genius could pursue a PhD in it and not exhaust its nuance. There is no reason to suppose the Bible should be different.
@jjjsalang
@jjjsalang 2 жыл бұрын
@@bens7686 , "Even a child can understand and enjoy Homer's Odyssey. However, the book is so sophisticated and historically-linguistically contextualized that a genius could pursue a PhD in it and not exhaust its nuance. " Good comment. I am not sure if I agree with all of your video, but I am open-minded and willing to follow the evidence.
@blackiebori
@blackiebori 4 жыл бұрын
Genesis 6:3 "Then the LORD said, 'My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years'" (ESV). Hence, flesh is mortal by default! Only by the Spirit of God can it live "to the age" (Hebrew: _le-`olam_ ).
@bens7686
@bens7686 6 жыл бұрын
Like all the scholars quoted in this video, I have no doubt that other passages outside Gen 1 teach respect for animals and ecological stewardship. Some have asked what I think about Paul’s language of creation being “in bondage to decay”: I’ve read a handful of book-length contextual studies dedicated entirely to that passage by scholars like Harry Alan Hahne and Gregory Fewster, but I’m not educated in Second Temple Jewish literature, nor do I pretend to be on the internet. The following, therefore, is tentative: First, belief in original vegetarianism is attested in the Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 59b, evincing that it was probably an option in Paul’s context. (The Talmud has third century Rabbis referring to their second century teachers.) But I could find no reference to the idea in Hahne’s survey of the Second Temple texts discussing the consequences of the Fall (such as Josephus, Jubilees, 2 Enoch, 4 Ezra, 2 Baruch, the Life of Adam and Eve, etc.). The fact that reference to the idea is omitted in so many texts where we would expect to find it evinces that we should be cautious about automatically assuming Paul’s thinking circumscribes it in Romans 8. I asked the Pauline scholar GW Carraway about this and he agreed in no uncertain terms that the context of that passage is irrelevant to the subject of animal death. Further context may be sought in the fact that the source for Paul’s thinking in the Romans 8 passage is the Septuagint of Isaiah 24-27. Johnathan Moo’s paper, “Romans 8.19-22 and Isaiah’s Cosmic Covenant” has compellingly demonstrated this. If you go read Paul’s source in Isaiah 24, it too speaks of the whole of creation withering, decaying and being cursed (some of the terminology is identical), but it targets the actual ground and vegetation, not even hinting at the natural cycles of death in the animal kingdom. The (apparent) disagreement on original vegetarianism among first century Jews, and especially the contextual matrix of Isaiah 24 inclines me to doubt that Paul held such an idea.
@fedor5003
@fedor5003 6 жыл бұрын
pixels and papyrus Where did you get your education? I studied under Dr. Van Ee.
@bens7686
@bens7686 6 жыл бұрын
That’s cool to hear. I received my degree at The Southern Baptist Seminary college. I currently study Manuscript Archeometry at Hamburg University in Germany.
@fedor5003
@fedor5003 6 жыл бұрын
pixels and papyrus Thank you for these great videos
@thenopasslook
@thenopasslook 6 жыл бұрын
pixels and papyrus Why would God call the creation “good” if it was already contaminated by death if death is “the last enemy”?
@hannajung7512
@hannajung7512 6 жыл бұрын
Pixel and Papyrus as an atheist, I have to say, it is a relief to see and hear a Christian opposing this crazy cult of Ken Ham and AiG. I find your video extemly educating, and would with your permission provide your channel as a source for other atheists, when there is a debate, how the Bible can be interpreted beside the complete crazy fundamentalist version. Just because I am curious: which denomination do you follow (if any)? And do what is your general take on the theory of evolution (no worry, I won't start a discussion, I just want to know, for the sake of context of what you say).
@Gorillarevolta
@Gorillarevolta 3 жыл бұрын
Also if Isaiah 25:6 is eschatological and has 'fat' and 'marrow' in the feast...
@SarahElisabethJoyal
@SarahElisabethJoyal 4 жыл бұрын
I like the idea that God would wait until there were statistically zero animals on the entire planet and only then be like 'oh btdubs y'all can totes start eating meat now'
@305thief8
@305thief8 3 жыл бұрын
Thats assuming ur interpretation lol. Also i believe the flood was local lol i hear it happened in the Persian Gulf 12-8000 yrs ago
@tedbates1236
@tedbates1236 5 жыл бұрын
I think Dr. Hugh Ross has a book titled Dear in Eden. He is the head of Reasons To Believe, a science and faith ministry. It's website is: Reasons. org. We are Old Earth Creationists counter to Young Earth Creationists.
@tedbates1236
@tedbates1236 5 жыл бұрын
That book is: Death in Eden by Hugh Ross.
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