Will you show both pairs of Lii's or only the S10? Looking forward to meeting you guys.

@@TombstoneTube Both BUT At an audio show, the Liionidas would make more sense.

Looking forward to hearing your demo with the lionidas with the premium Galion tube am. I will be buying the Lionidas but with a 12” woofer vs the current 15 that’s in the bottom and I may purchase the premium Galion.

I'm curious, how are the Liionidas at between 60-70 dB for condo & late night listening?

im frustrated i did not get my products finished in time to bring them. my cnc is a month late.

Glad you liked it!!

Took delivery of the Platinum-10 last week though they'll be waiting a while until Lii release cabinets specifically for them. A little bird told me that new cabinets (maybe named Emperor?) based around the current Glory will become available. Likely be a full floor stander version of the Glory to better complement the drivers. Far more cabinet volume is required for the Platinum-10 than Silver-10 drivers. From discussions I've had the PT-10 will have all the fine detail and sparkle I could ever desire combined with deep detailed bass that can actually slam and rock. They push more air than any previous Lii driver.

I also have a pair a single driver speakers built by the same man. Will never part with them.☮️

is the distance to the side walls as important as the distance to the back wall? This is key to my particular situation. Thanks

@@TombstoneTube side walls can be pretty close but the backs need room to delay the backwave

Will an 10w el84 SEP amp do, in an large 45m2 livingrooom?

R.I.P. Leon 🌷

You are a very lucky man my friend...I have heard so many good things about these...

What are differences between Cube and Voxativ? I am also thinking of the Pure Audio Project Duet 15 Prelude.

So a Cayin 300b integrated can't drive the Lionidas?

@@klepp19 The Voxative speakers seem quicker to my ear and have a smoother, more pronounced top end, while the treble from the Cube sits back in the more a little more. I can't state that for fact that they do though as I use SS amps that have far more power than either of the speakers require, so they may sound totally different supplied by a tube amp. I think the speed may be down to the AC1.6 is 8", while the Cube is 10".

I thought it was a great video, let me share it on the community page and here too. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ftuBZpqBzbndZYU.html

Thanks for sharing, Sean. I am quite new to DIY speakers and keen to build a stand-mount front ported speakers for MarkAudio Alpair 12p. May I ask what resistor, inductor value required to build baffle step correction circuit? Cabinet dimension will be 10.8" wide, 17.5" tall, 7.2" deep. Thank you.

@@jikim0916 the DIY audio forum community would be a better resource. Some really smart people over there.

@@jikim0916 Jepp, do your self a favor. Go down into the rabbit hole of DSP. Don't waste time AND money on inductors, resistors and capacitors. That has very low ROI. You can have a DSP as a preamp that take different digital input and analog also (for TT). And several Chanels outputs that feeding power amplifiers. Then you can do better crossovers, more precise, more tuned, higher order crossovers, change crossover points in one Hz resolution. (As if you had unlimited founds and access to all caps, resistors and inductors in the world so you were theoretical able to do the same thing..) Do optimal crossover for several speakers and when changing speakers you can have that speaker settings as a preset. You can do so much more that the sonically benefits will outweigh any downside you will come up with. So much more than I wish to write about right now. 👍

There's one compromise that can work, use two 8ohm small full range drivers per side and put a 1st order on one.

but at that point your a multi way and a properly engineered speaker can out do it both top and bottom. so really why settle for such a narrow music capability. but that being said with your hearling loss, there is a misconcetption, just because you can not hear average, does not mean harmonics with things like pipe organ and string instrumets are not degrading the spectrum you CAN hear. there is a reason why many amplfiers that measure up to 20k are ALWAYS average and ones that measure 50k and up sound much much better even if they are a cheap amp! the problem with most speakers that have flawless phase and time aligment are so expensive and elite we never get to audition them, and stuff in the price category most are comfortable with (not talking about budget speakers or box store garbage, those are completely different consumers) dont RnD enough to do it and go with "good enough most cant hear the difference anyways"

@@djfirestormx Technically it is multi way but not in the typical sense. In most cases a good single driver will do quite well with better realism than a standard multi way design with the possible addition of a sub which is usually required even for the Majority of modern multis. By using a wide band driver for the majority of the spectrum you get most of the benefit of the full range single driver by keeping the crossover out of the critical frequency range. Supplementing some rumble and sizzle doesn't necessarily eliminate the wide bandwidth advantage. As to the need for ultrasonic response I agree that in feedback amplifiers (especially high GNFB amps) a wide open loop response is a worthwhile thing to minimize negative effects in the audible range but for the loudspeakers themselves I don't think it is nearly as important because it is generally just a fairly smooth reduction in the ability to move fast enough and there are no feedback effects to be concerned about. Linear phase shifts in that range are not really that problematic. My current system is a pretty inexpensive setup. It uses modest size open baffles with round top plate and 4" side plates. The main drivers are 4" Mark Audio full ranges which reach pretty well to nearly 20K with smooth but not sizzly highs. I use a simple first order high pass around the 130 to 150 range to protect the driver. There is a 10" high Q helper woofer with a second order low pass. This arrangement allows the main driver to put out some mid bass for cohesiveness without over excursion. I have a sub with 12" driver and 15" PR to supplement 20 to 60Hz. This setup sounds delightful with SE-UL KT88S and even respectable with 2.1 chip amp. When finances allow I hope to experiment with larger high efficiency setups.

@@mkshffr4936 well I definitely am not saying you're wrong in any way. I actually really like the detailed response like that. A proper audio conversation! I'm currently working on a pair of speakers that I'm actually going to be selling and the largest challenge with having a crossover split in the voice range is usually because the materials are vastly different between tweeters and woofers. That's often where people get the misconception that you can't do it without causing an issue in that range. I completely agree with you but it is possible. That's why I'm actually a fan of large Dome mid ranges because you can cross over so high and so low that you stay completely out of the range were crossover points become obvious. It's actually part of the reason why I set out to start my own because everything you're explaining is something that I always hear. Of course I'm an audio Enthusiast and I love all of it and I would totally love to hear that setup that you have. I don't have any tube amplifiers I have yet to venture down that path myself but that being said I've heard my product on a Western Electric tube and also on Quicksilver M60 with the original design tubes not the upgraded ones that apparently ruin it. But I'm not too expert but I know that Western Electric is pretty insane. The guy ran an audio shop who actually specializes in a lot of things like full range drivers and has a collection of all kinds of pint source, tannoys you name it... and when he played my little prototype bookshelf the expression on his face before he said he can not believe there is even a crossover in it made my 3 years of painstaking testing, cap rolling, and 3d printing mean something. Phase inaudible, time aligned (without use of electronics or angle offsets), lenses in conjunction with a waveguide but no bullet effect. it was a lot of work but I just wanted to prove it can be done and that even the biggest players in some of the best talked about multi way still don't do it. because it's expensive crossover, like off the rails expensive lol.

@@djfirestormx And very painstaking work to tune the crossover during the design phase I imagine. Quite a bit of dedication on your part. Well done.

@@mkshffr4936 no speaker is perfect of course. but I like doing it because for me it's entertaining to design lol. I want to play with some OB too but too many projects lol

Totally agreed!

Do you have the specs for the crossover? I want to build my diy version of the Liionidas. Thank you

What about biamping? Class D for the w15 and low watt tube for the s10, using active crossover?

I have a pair of liionidas and they need power I had mine hooked up to a low watt tube amp and the bass was weak,I switched to a pass labs Int-60 and the results was night and day.The speakers came to life everything just opened up, wide soundstage bass that filled the room like no speaker I have owned. These speakers sound great with all types of music,

I made mine but as OB it didn't fit me, too diffcult placement and reduced bass, so I placed these drivers into a Karlsonator of my own, much better.

Exactly!

Just listened to it with my Hifiman XS's on Tidal. Pretty awesome and fun mixing.

You may like the Deep Forest track "Sweet Lullaby". I particularly like how the choir builds up at the rear and across the sound stage. Also pretty much anything from Delerium is worth a listen.

Awesome song Radioheads great. Try harrow down hill from thom York the mid range is insane on the right speakers

Ha, this is one of my go-to test tracks for years now -- I do the exact same thing :)

Really… I have to admit, I'm completely underwhelmed.

I started out with that type of speaker. I can hear the deficiencies though even with some of my mods. Some day I'll try out a well sorted pair of OB

Have you looked at any wide dispersion box speakers? They have some of the boxless Advantages?

clamshell as in ripole or as in isobaric? Any links?

@@Scottlp2 Not really looked at these. Using active studio monitors now which I can integrate well with subs

yeahhh either its as good as they say it is or were all foolish for not owning one :P

Oh yeah talking about Coral beta 10 with its unique multiple ports big wide cabinet. It was ultra transparent & i couldn’t listen to my then harbeth spks for 2 weeks. Made the harbeth sound so muffled omg…but it was also very bright & forward. So horses for courses.

@@ganck1147 what electronics where you using ?

@@drwavedawg oh those beta 10s were not mine. Belonged to a friend. He was driving them with a diy tube amp. After listening to his beta 10, i almost bought a pair of beta 10 myself. There were loads of beta 10 drivers from ebay at that time.

Most of my friend have room treatement and I will be making a video soon about on that. In this case, I don't know how much the diffusers contributed to the soundstage because it has been so long I was last there, like a few years ago.

Eventually he will on his channel.

They told me because some people already own the drivers so they can also buy it.

Omg! what are you going to drive it with? Will you be going to the Toronto audio show?

@@ThomasAndStereo I am going to try my Mcintosh MA352, I live in USA so will not likely make Toronto. I'll certainly share my thoughts once they have settled in.

@@khankxPlease share your impressions as promised.

Well it is not my room. It is actually Liisong's room and because they heard my amp, the borrowed it from me.

@@ThomasAndStereo right ok! yeah maybe be good to pair up with other people next shows. you had cube audio in your room what did you think?

I see, have you added subwoofers to help?

@@ThomasAndStereo I had 2 8-10 year old SVS subs (the tall round cylinders), that I purchased new. They were early models. The volume control on the BASH plate amps came on super loud when barely cracking the volume: probably designed specifically for home theater. It me years to finally sell them. Unfortunately, quality subs are really expensive, even more-so than the 2.8s MSRP, so...

Forsure my room is not big enough to bring the very best out of them.

I know what you mean, from memory it was enough but I need to double check.

Given that most full range speakers rely on controlled, damped cone breakup (or not) and an extra whizzer cone, it's hard for them to be completely clean sounding

Cool! So I will see you at the show?

@@ThomasAndStereo still being COVID safe with the new baby . My heart will be there but ..... Will you go both days

@@markw7303 Ah take care yourself, health comes first. I will be there 3 days, from 3pm to 4pm.

I really want to see pure audio project or the other popular open baffle . One of these will be my next speaker or nothing will. I'm not sure there coming though that and coda and legacy but there also usually no shows.

I don't remember about bi amp. Decware, probably the ufo2 or Torii 5.

Good idea but have to try it out to see if that works.

Have you consider adding a sub to your S400? The Liionidas should be able to pressurize the room way more than the S400 but not sure if your amp can handle it. In theory it should at 150wpc.

@@ThomasAndStereo I've done that. I added an SVS 16 ultra. I have not yet tuned it and ultimately, don't feel the Buchardt's will 'fit' with the level of electronics I have in our dedicated listening room. Looking at what folks have run in terms of amp power, it seems to me anyway that having 150 WPC (in pentode mode) on my very capable Allnic integrated, I'm only worried about my 15' X 19' room. We learned too as well that by bringing the big Spatial's upstairs where there's a tall ceiling and a much bigger room to breath, the Spatial's came alive. Keep up the good work Thomas.

Sadly I did not record one, was not at my home.

Yes, absolutely

I was using Loic's mic.

The advanges is that you get only one point of sound emission so you can listen very near to the speakers, a more coherent sound stage ; it ensures the same "color" on the full spectrum and no delay between trebles and bass (if 2 ways) ; no crossover to eats up the dynamic......that's a lot for me.

Oh that is a really hard one, dynamic and bass output, the Liionidas has the advantage by a lot. Need to AB test to know

We only tried it with tube preamp and solidstate poweramp. It sounded amazing. I don't know if it can compete as I have not heard the other 2 speakers.

@@ThomasAndStereo Thanks!

The CP800? Was so so.

Only if you like single driver type of sound, check out my latest video on Lyric moonriver 8.

They can play in the same sandbox.

Sorry, no idea.

I would really like to try that!

Yes.

Were they a bit dark/muffeled with this crossover? (I got my pair yesterday, and is sounds pretty veiled going on 15hrs break-in)

@@hallgeirangel6494 No, it should not be dark. I think single drivers are known to be transparent and 'bright'. I hope you did not buy from Ali express because Liisong does not officially carry authentic Liisong products on Ali express.

Nope, bought from official european distributor!

@@hallgeirangel6494 if you unplug the W15, are you still getting sound? Perhaps you are only playing the W15 and not the top woofer? Is sound coming from the top woofer?

Very dynamic and grand. You need a big room to handle the combo. If you don't, you can always disabled once voice coil on the Liionidas within a second. At the Toronto audio show, enjoy the music website even gave us one of the best sound at the show award. A retired 6 moon reviewer also emailed me privately telling me it was one of the best sound at the audio show. www.enjoythemusic.com/Toronto_Audiofest_2022/ kzfaq.info/get/bejne/gZiRZK-X1MeVdZc.html

@@ThomasAndStereo thanks for the prompt reply, Thomas. Such a pity... I have a small room (10 ft by 28 ft) and front/back wall is on the 10 ft side, so side wall reflection is not a problem. Now that Liionidas is out of the equation, please recommend speakers under USD7K that will work wonders with the Galion, if you don't mind.

@@eViperRabbit Well 10x 28 is a midsize room. So it might work if it is treated. The Galion will work well with any multi driver speakers. Just choose a speaker that is to your taste and the TS120 should pair well with it. Single driver speakers alone, is a bit tricky. Flat panel Magnepan are not my first choice to go with the Galion TS120

@@ThomasAndStereo got it. appreciate that. thank you

Maybe you can buy the drivers and cross over and build the baffle yourself?

I can only pray their forgiveness. 😭

The driver on the side belongs to Loic, he is having a speaker build right now with those drivers. Wait for my Willsenton R300 review.