Good work! I'm jealous of your testing site. I think that the concept is reasonable, and your conjectures regarding it too. If this weapon had caught on and been popular for a while, it seems likely that some mention of it would have survived. If armies fought one way that worked, it would be difficult to get them to risk a major change. These cannot be used by troops in dense formations as a plumbatum can, and in more open formation a slinger can carry far more ammunition and much cheaper ammunition, and be effective at long range. This is why I think that this weapon would not have caught on. It isn't as good as a bow for hunting, and in war, if other weapons fill the same battlefield role as well or better, they will remain. I'll look out for more of your work. A cheap Go-Pro-like knock-off can be got for £30 or so and would add a lot if placed at the target end of these tests. I'd recommend getting a radio mic for better sound.

“We are under heavy plumbardment - send more plumbrellas” - Roman centurion #4

Many thanks. As kids we used to make, what we called, ‘throwing arrows’. These were basically home made arrows, with fletchings and a weighted point, which were launched with a piece of string, knotted at one end. The string was wrapped around the arrow, just forward of the fletching, looped around the knot and pulled out to the point of the arrow and held with it. The arrow was then launched/thrown by releasing the point of the arrow but still holding onto the string. As kids we could easily throw these arrows 100 yards or more and were very accurate with practice.

That sound when the one hits the target is so gratifying! I was a baseball pitcher, and then taught kids to pitch. There are a couple of techniques that could be worth trying. You're throwing technique is overall excellent, and had you grown up in the U.S. I think you would make a hell of a good pitcher. One thing to try is to bring your left arm up instead of letting it go immediately to the side, use your elbow as a quick aiming point right when you are ready to release. The aiming elbow comes up with the lower arm bent in, then as you release, the left arm straightens out, and then folds into your body. The other thing I always taught along with the elbow aim is to land your left foot straight forward and also in the direction of the target. It's pretty amazing how well these little things help. That being said, you are awesome, and I'm jealous of how well you do all of this. I love it!!

There is definitely historic reference to plumbata being “slung”- I have always assumed it was done with a specialized sling, pathfinder style. This make’s SIGNIFICANTLY more sense and I agree that it is likely they would have tried this. To think this was your first time using it and you got that kind of energy, range and grouping! Professional Roman sappers would absolutely be doing this.

In America, we had something like this back in the early 1970s. It was called "Lawn Darts." It was similar to horseshoes, but you played until only one was left standing. lol Great video. Interesting concept.

I love your content mate. You inspired me to make my own balearic slings. I have made two now and plan to make many many more.

that was a very interesting take on the plumbata. And i very much enjoyed every second of it. while we cannot be sure if it existed or not (in this design or similar ones) I would argue that even if this invention existed it would have not been a prevalent sight on the battlefield but rather limited. The reason: it would have been another logistical branch to take care of for a weapon that is essentialy (in my eyes) very limited for inter-unit use. the plumbata was used because it was small enough to be carried in large numbers, and can be thrown out from a tight formation. and the slingers can just throw thing that are much cheaper and faster to procure i.e. rocks, lead, clay etc. And archers have their bow, that gives them very good accuracy and range (the same goes for the manuballista). and the javelin throwers have their javelin, that would have more stopping power (especially when used with an amentum) not only in transferred energy but also because of its weight to give the enemy a hard time using their shields. But adding to your argument, that the sling-plumbata would be used complementary, I would dare to say, that all these weapon (-systems) mentioned above are already complementing themselves in a combined-arms-strategy. so opening another logistical branch for something that is more expensive than sling-ammo, less accuarte than a bow, has less stopping power than a javelin, and cannot be used within tight formations; a weapon than can do everything but nothing really better as the above mentioned weapons, would have probably not been worth it logistically, especially for the waining economy of the late roman empire of the 4th and 5th century. but that are just my thoughts on it. Again. really nice video and beautiful design none the less!

I absolutely loved this: the depth and detail along with the mix of theory, practice and historical context was just perfect.

Thank you so much for bringing these stories to life. Brilliant channel, brilliant host.

Thanks for taking lawn darts to the next level.

I think this channel can get a lot bigger if you keep making content like this. Good luck!

This is great! As kids we used a split stick and forced a stone in between the strakes to throw it a very great distance. The stick being about 40 to 50 centimeters long. To grade it up for the plumbata I would use a longer stave of up to 1,5 meter with a hook on the one end for the loop of your plumbata. Using both hands in a flip motion should lob it a long distance indeed.

I find the idea of a long range plumbata that combines the momentum and penetrating power of a javelin with the range of a bow very fascinating. I do wonder if a lighter, longer and more flexible shaft could be used to good effect, and what the limit is. There is likely a limit to the length in terms of how high it could be thrown (for range). Additionally with the loop at the end and the sling-like spin before the throw, the packing of the throwers is necessarily not as dense as it would be with archers (fewer people can fit in an area, otherwise they hit each other). That is one interesting aspect and consideration that also follows along with how effective a group of slingers would be. Only so many can fit within a given area and fire at once. I would love to see future penetration tests against hard shields and to see further assessment on how this "new" plumbata could have harried an enemy by becoming embedded in their shields. Awesome stuff as always.

The mass and speed of these could easily cause mayhem on the enemy. Great video! I would try wooden fins or any other kind of material that is stiff, good luck on attaching them on the shaft though.

Awesome. The fact that with the first proof of concept you managed to outperform (in energy and momentum) a very skilled archer like Joe Gibbs who shot with a 160 lbs bow (close to the upper limit that a person may pull) is testament to the viability of this concept. It's perfectly possible that the plumbata is a descendant of a hunting version of the kestros, since the kestros and the plumbata both appeared in the western Balkans (the non-Greek word kestros points to an origin outside of Greece/Macedonia proper). So the possibility of launching it with rotation would be integral to the use of such a weapon. IMHO the plumbata was indeed used with various throwing methods and this would have been one of them. The other would have been with an amentum and a third one would be achieved by resting the rear end of the lead weight in the "fork" between forefinger and middle finger to launch the plumbata javelin-style for better accuracy at short ranges. As for your variant I'd suggest larger and stiffer vanes/fletchings (analogous to historical hide/parchment and paper/cloth stiffened with glue) to reduce rotation and fishtailing after launch. The close proximity of the vanes to the axis of rotation means that they won't add too much drag to the initial wind-up. I'd also suggest making a variant with a ring-shaped weight. The shaft passes through the hole of the ring thus the ring-weight will be free to run up and down the shaft but won't flying off it as it will be hemmed in by the barbs of the dart-head on top of the shaft and the stiff vanes on the bottom of the shaft. When you rotate the dart the ring-weight will rise all the way to the barbs due to centrifugal force and stay close to that point until the landing and impact. When the dart penetrates the ring-weight will be pushed back improving the penetration in hard targets like a shield or armor.

I like how you think about this period in our history. I'm quite sure that there were weapons and arms that were invented that we'll simply never know about... Rare one offs, things too brutal even for then, perhaps?! Like the diving suits and other artifact's from some of the old mouldy codices. Great content and brilliant expo of a another deadly weapon. ❤

Absolutely golden content. I love the modern world. Now people like me who are very interested in ancient warfare but without the time and practice and expertise required to go and pick up a sharp stick and whirl it above my head without stabbing myself can have a reasonable idea of what these devices are capable of. More options for historians beyond reading writing and speculating is incredibly valuable. Keep up the good work!

Going through all your videos currently and absolutely loving your channel. Seriously amazing work on your research, craftsmanship, and presenting the information in a way that is entertaining and educational. Thank you!

This was fascinating. You went ALL IN on this project!

I hadn't ever heard of a weapon like this, but it's cool seeing it actually being used and knowing how good he is with a sling gives a lot of insight into just how difficult these projectiles were to use with any accuracy.

I'd love to see you sling things at ballistic gel. It would be really interesting to see how lethal a sling might have actually been

Good prep on the introduction to the weapon and I really liked the fact you included all the target practice in period appropriate dress no less! It's amazing how quickly it aligns in flight, saw that in the slo mo. Great work on explaining the science behind this.

Really interesting. I love how experimental archaeology can give us some insight into the past. Also. Nice throws. Im really impressed.

The problem with plumbata is that it is so easy to use that when used from a long distance it can easily be collected and thrown back at you by unskilled users from smaller distance, when it is more accurate and thus - dangerous. Also plumbata were used in tight formations by a soldiers using shields. This way of throwing would be impossible to deploy on a battlefield.

I don't know if this was in response to Tod's Workshop and his recent experiments? But if not, may I suggest you make it so. Your channel would benefit from catching the attention of his audience but more importantly I think he would be fascinated by what you've done and take in on-board. I think there are some things he would not alter: We have surviving heads of historical plumbata so we know the diameter of the wooden shaft. But I think there's plenty of room to experiemnt with the length of the shaft and the number and size of the fletchings and indeed the idea of "slinging" them. I realise you are speculating on something different than the hisrtorical examples we have, but this is useful nonetheless!

Loved the presentation and the video. I'm sure that my late friend would have loved this video as she was a professor of Roman history

They definitely seem to be a nice force multiplier, something all your troops could carry and deploy to soften up an enemy formation.

Brilliant video. Small comments about the fletching. Changing the design with four feathers and making them larger would certainly equate to better stabilization for conserving short-term energy loss, but would also create more drag than the current design during the stabilized flight stage (depending on how big they were). So it would be interesting to see what the compromise point could be with the fletching sizes to leverage on for the most efficient outcome. Again great vid and amazing proof of concept.

The way you're bent forward before throwing reminded me of bas relief of old times. Good stuff. Thank

We had those as toys in the 70's lawn darts .... what a life we lead.

This is great concept. I really wonder sometimes how many variations of darts and javelins there have been in the past. Since much of these variations in terms of shaft length, fletching, launch/release mechanisms are made of organic materials, there would be very little archeological evidence of these variations. And classical period historians do refer to this broad category of weapons as "darts" so for all we know any of these variations could have actually been used in the past. Given that our awareness of these darts really only come from written sources, the fact that there were several such variations (Plumbata, Kestros, Swiss/Dutch/Yorkshire Arrows, War darts, ) mentioned should be telling.

Fantastic, love this channel very dearly.

Such a good idea to provide mas, speed, Joules, and momentum. It makes it easier to compare various projectile weapons.

Interesting weapon; like the sling, it requires space to be properly manipulated while a bow allows more stealth. Thank you for the informative video and the demonstrations !

People assume plumbata would be stopped by a mail shirt. No it won't. The heads are made like a thin harpoon, out of soft iron. It would enter the rings by bending itself, and penetrate the body to the lead, but will get stuck when trying to pull out, ripping the flesh it penetrated.

Have you concidered using a sling stick yet? Those pieces of wood that were used to improve throwing spears ever since the late stone age. It would keep the arrow much more stabil than swinging it around, and it may even provide more acceleration and easier aiming.

Well done, Sir ! I imagane an archeologist finding a trumpet in some thousand years... he will try to play it of course, get some tones, ...but can only guess about the skills of those former people, who used it daily.

I'm not even sure how I found this video. I only know I am grateful that I did. And even more grateful for you making it. This was Badass!! I am now a subscribed member. Again,Thank you Mate.

That's AMAZING. Incredible work! Lindy recommended a radio mic, but look for a well reviewed lav mic under $40, easy to plug in to a phone (make sure you get one with the right connection) and will give professional enough sounding audio for much cheaper if you don't want the financial stress. Also great for outdoor work as it will eliminate the authentic power tool noises :p

Good work! Great quality content!

I was just watching a archeology channel and they unearthed some slinger ammunition. I was completely amazed, searched for Roman Slingers and found your awesome channel! Thanks for keeping this amazing piece of history alive. Totally fascinating!

Wow! The amount of time, effort, and thought put into this is truly impressive. It looks like most of my thoughts have already been stated in the comments. I really enjoyed the experiment, and the format in which it was conducted. Perhaps not as practical as an ancient battlefield weapon, however with all of the SHTF and bug out content out there, I could definitely see modern preppers purchasing or making this sort of thing. I really enjoy this kind of content, and how thorough you are about it. I look forward to more content. Well done indeed!

I’ve heard some theories that a plumbata were thrown using slings. There’s a modified version of balearic slings that can be wrapped around the shaft of the plumbata and can be used to throw it a longer distance. I think that would be an interesting experiment to try.

Lord only knows what the youtube algorithm thinks of me! 20-odd minutes ago I was watching a video about some dude's LaTeX configuration in Emacs, now I want to drink wine and make oversized darts to harass and harangue my Gaulish adversaries.

I think you proved several concepts nicely, and the variations in darts and launch methods are almost limitless. With the range demonstrated I could easily imagine several lines launching waves of these as the close quarters troops moved in or several other scenarios. I'm sure a couple well placed nicks on the shaft at the right spot would let the shafts snap off on impact so they would get fired back at you

Ooh lawn darts, I remember these from the eighties. Seriously though, very cool content. Never knew about this one thanks for video

Fangirl here....love your stuff!

What if you made the finger loop a bit longer to get some added leverage? For some reason I'm also curious to see what would happen if it was thrown in a figure 8 type fashion. Good video.

That was very interesting. Thanks for taking the time to put it together.

Excellent idea and implementation. Thanks for your work!

you should talk with Todd 😉

Very interesting. I've never heard of such a thing. Thank you for your video...great job.

Je trouve vos travaux passionnant. C'est clair,bien expliqué. Bravo

That tunic is so cool! I love it!

What a great experiment, you put up a robust argument, and made me believe that this could have been a very feasible ancient weapon.

When I was a child we used to make something similar with a garden cane with cardboard flights and wire at the end for weight it was propelled by the use of a string with a knot at one end the string was rapped around the arrow shaft and over the knot and pulled tight along the shaft drawing your arm back and throwing the arrow the string releases the arrow ,we used to get some great distances . I’m 76 next month so great memories who could throw the furthest.

We had a similar weapon which were used only by the Meitei warriors of Manipur. It was called an arambai. The difference from the plumbata was that it was launched by a sling and the warriors who used this weapon were cavalrymen. They could throw / sling it from underneath the belly of Manipuri ponies and they were really accurate. However, it was banned by the British after the Anglo-Manipur War or Manipuri Rebellion of 1891.

This was great! I would enjoy seeing this explored.

You are really on to something with your recent output, keep the content coming and you’ll be hitting 100k+ subscribers in no time! KZfaq is at it’s best with well made, very niche stuff like this

Can't wait to see the next version man, cool experiment.

Great stuff, love this type of experimenting with historical weaponry

simply judging from the effectiveness and simplicity of these weapons I can't see how this wouldn't have been used in the ancient world. Good video!

My thoughts: 1) First thing after all the testing I thought of slinging a smaller plumbata before you mentioned the Kestros. 2) Try doing away with the loop and go for a small toggle which might allow for more precise release. The loop I believe is the reason your shots initially went left. 3) Why does it need to be a solid shaft? What if sections were attached by a thin rope with wider fletchings. It could be spun up easier like a sling and the fletching adds the drag to stabilise the flight and straighten out the whole thing. 4) Try a plumbata style head with the weight closer to the head but rather than a shaft and fletching, use long wide ribbon. This ought to create the stabilising drag but also be swung about in the sling fashion you're used to. 5) Add a small notch to the front of the shaft and throw with a lever like an atlatl or something flexible and long planted into the ground and weighed down at the base. Think of bending your fingers back with a long fingernail to flick something off. A crude catapult. I quite liked the video, it also filled me with a tonne of ideas so apologies for throwing them all at you.

Very interesting, I think with the larger flights and experimentation with the projectile length and varing the weight could result in a very effective weapon. It is already a very effective weapon

As for them throwing it back, make the loop so small as to require a launcher -- a small strip of leather that stayed with the thrower. Soon enough the enemy would adapt, but with a little ingenuity your team could stay ahead of them. You don't have to make immediate re-use impossible, just make launching it more time consuming than it is for you because of that "one secret trick".

That was interesting! Never heard of, or noticed these, but as kids used to make something similar. A 3' bamboo cane, a cornflake packet flight at the fat end, and a lump of clay for the weight. We threw them more like a stick grenade!

Without any practical experience using a balearic sling or a plumbata, I'm curious about the choice to use a loop on the end. I know that a loop gives the sling a firm anchor point, and the loosing of the missile is actuated by releasing the other end of the sling. But on an elongated plumbata such as this, the loop is attached to the projectile itself. It seems that upon release, any snagging of the loop on the finger would affect the flight path of the plumbata, impacting speed, distance, accuracy... For an analogous example, "snatching" at a bowstring upon release can cause the arrow to fishtail and fly poorly. Perhaps a version with a simple knot at the end of a short cord could be interesting to test? Love the video! Super interesting content, keep it up!

This reminds me of a dart a good friend of mine made 7yrs ago. He made a dart out of a 2ft long piece straight wood, the diameter of which was 3 inch thick. He left the base of the wood around 4 inch an tapered down the rest to a point an drilled a hole thru an attached a strong cord loop. He used Fletching 2inch under this, it looked like a dart apart from the fact the tip was the bulb and had a 6 inch blade attached. The slinging method was cord passed thru the loop. When I asked why he made it, he saz it was for elderly gentleman. The gentleman in his youth spent his youth summers with travelling romany gypsies, an the dart was made by one the leaders. Teaching the young lads part the ancient traditions, apparently they was used by warring gypsy groups in ancient times

Freaking real life Legolas , you my friend are bad ass

someone else terrified about how close that swings near to his head?

I admire this uploader who discovered KZfaq thousands of years ago and uploaded the video.

fantastic video. i love that you have expanded beyond just the Balearic sling. no complaints about those vids btw, they’re great too, but expanding and testing adds a lot to the Archaic Arms name beyond just the sling

What a great channel. Just watched with my 10 year old son. It would be very interesting so see the effect of modified flights/fletchings. Increasing the size and number could stabilise the dart but might also increase drag.

You are right, like any new weapon, you need to find the "knack" of repetitive throwing. Good experiment well done!

I wonder who took a look at these ancient throwing weapons and thought, "Wow, that looks like it would make a fun lawn game!"

Loved this video. And have been curious why there aren't more historic examples of plumbata and variations of the concept. And you touched on a point toward the end that made me think. You were talking about how the weapons breaking, could be an advantage. So heres my thought, what if this concept was used with already broken arrows, from previous battles, modified and repaired just enough to be thrown once? Its an incredibly "cheap" weapon to source at that point, and becomes potentially so plentiful that a few could be given to a variety of other ground troups, to bolster an initial volley in the battle. The extra projectiles wouldn't even have to be particularly effective at that point, as they are a supplemental ordinance, meant to increase the psychological and actual effectiveness of an archery volley.

These types weapons were used in sustained ways by using geographic advantages. When you have the high ground you have extended range and can hold off equal range weapons. Sometimes slings can out range war bows. That’s why the lay of the land is more important than the weapons.

Having seen slings used in modern conflicts with authority in parts of the world, the idea of these super plumbata is very interesting.

great job!!! A dart with a hazelnut shaft and a "Flu flu" fletching would be interesting. This Plumbata version would still be significantly more expensive than a sling bullet because it requires more work, I have agree with Lindybeige here. However, one must also consider from historical context that the work that was put into projectiles, arrows from the Mary Rose etc. cannot be measured using modern standards for working time costs. In ancient times, lead was a waste product from silver mining and was therefore comparatively cheap for a metal. Hazelnut grow like weeds and for a flu flu you don't even need high quality feathers like you do for triple fletching (if you want to hit). Even an imperfectly straight shaft probably wouldn't have much of an impact here.

Baby of the 80's confirming the deadliness of Roman lawn darts

Just my armchair slinger thought: given how throwing stick improved range of spears, it would be reasonably easy to design an eighteen inch stick with a leather loop on one end to go around wrist, the other end would have a small ivory peg to hold the loop on the plumbata and the real trick is to attach a long trigger mechanism hinged somewhere near the middle of the throwing stick. At desired moment of release a finger or thumb would squeeze the long trigger and the other end of the trigger would shove the plumbata loop off the small peg. Given the length of the throwing stick the shorter plumbata you started with might be a good answer. The long trigger might be fashioned from bronze and inset into a channel in the throwing stick.

I wonder about a knot rather than a loop for the release. Most slings I have seen use a knot and I wonder if it would make this more sling-like and thus not needing so much re-learning. I suppose you could put a small ball at the end of the shaft too but I think that would be less sling-like. Very cool stuff!

I think a collaboration with Todd Cutler at Todd Cutler’s Workshop or Scholagladitoria is in order. Great work!

This is great! I literally made a similar weapon for a Dark Sun D&D campaign that had Last Oasis elements with those giant base walkers. People could throw these darts at enemy sails, put barbs on them to bleed enemies on grazing hits, clay jars of fire instead of the typical weight that could ignite oils or cloth. You did a great job actually using it and analyzing it. I think the Romans not adopting and perfecting the tech may come down to the reverence of the pilum and how it works in conjecture with shield bearing tactics. Or perhaps more specifically, the type of shield utilized? A large square shield like that would be better used as a passive. All of that needing the integration and knowledge to perfect it, perhaps they thought it not worth the time when the two were compared, or was something easily looked over for their mindset at the time? Either way, i could 100% see this as a thing that existed.

196 yds distance is no small feat. Multiply your dart by 300-500(?) throwers and you would be raining hell down on an enemy. I know I wouldn't want to be on the receiving side! Good job!

This technique is going to make my next game of Lawn Darts way more interesting!

0:39 the red garment while sporting a monocle and a camera angle as if you're talking down to your students would be a nice addition in future videos.

I thought the hole thing was just great! Very well done.

Human brilliance... Totally mind boggling design.. 👆🏾🔥🔥🔥🤯🤯🤯🤯took flight after release..

Heard a story once about gypsies who had a weapon like a plumbata which was thrown with something akin to the rock sling. Incredibly effective to pair both of these.

Those look very fun to play with, it just fells like it would be hard to make them without proper tools. And that is what I love the most about the sling, how it is just a bit of rope and also such a powerful weapon.

That's really nice. First time coming across your channel. I don't throw darts nearly enough to say I know what I am doing and I have the same problem with them going of to the left. I feel that's because I don't throw them from center of my vision. I throw them from my right. I compensate by aiming to the lower right side of the target. And I hit pretty close to bull's eye, and often in the eye. But that's only after few tries to test the distance.

A fellow brother at arms. I too have a penchant for old world weaponry. Well done sir…

You should point your left shoulder towards the target and point at the target with a straight left arm and hand if throwing with the right hand. Tennis players and hand ball players use this same technique to target a ball, it should transfer to throwing as well. Good job on the construction of the plumbata.

"Jarts" taken to the ultimate level!! LOL Outstanding, thank you for your content!! Perhaps the weighting material being made of mud or terra cotta might be a cheaper construction method as well as being more accessible in the field? Additionally, consider the iron heads of the darts being affixed to the wooden shaft with beeswax or pitch to ensure disassembly and prevent reuse? Just spitballing here.

My brothers and I did extensive experiments in the 80's with the plumbata and I can confirm its deadly. Of course way back then there were referred to simply as lawn darts or Jarts but same thing.

BTW if you would read Xenophon Anabasis, he described case when Greeks met some tribes in Caucasus that were using huge bows that they were pulling using both legs and firing huge arrows. He mentions that Greek light infantry was using those arrows as javelins by fixing a leather loop at their end. May bit it was something like this.

Hell yeah king. (Double entendre almost as thick as an NFL commentator. "Fairly rigid shaft" had me like and subscribe.)

I'm surprised at the sheer idea, that "an arrow" could be thrown to a distances comparable with a bow, with bare hands. While I do also believe logistical considerations might stop this type of weapon from spreading, I can imagine how it can replace some type of distance weapons, if being invented earlier. Overall, interesting video, beautifully made.