"The Red Book and The Red Book: Jung, Tolkien, and the Convergence of Images"

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"The Red Book and The Red Book: Jung, Tolkien, and the Convergence of Images"

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Күн бұрын

Beginning in the years leading up to the Great War, both C. G. Jung and J. R. R. Tolkien independently began to undergo profound imaginal experiences. They had each stepped across a threshold and entered into another world, the realm of imagination, the world of fantasy. Jung recorded these initially spontaneous visionary experiences, which he further developed using the practice of active imagination, in a large red manuscript that he named Liber Novus, although usually it is referred to simply as The Red Book. The experiences narrated in The Red Book became the seeds from which nearly all of Jung’s subsequent work flowered. For Tolkien, this imaginal journey revealed to him the world of Middle-earth, whose stories and myths eventually led to the writing of The Lord of the Rings, a book he named within its own imaginal history The Red Book of Westmarch. There are many synchronistic parallels between Jung’s and Tolkien’s Red Books: the style and content of their works of art, the narrative descriptions and scenes in their texts, the nature of their visions and dreams, and an underlying similarity in world view that emerged from their experiences. The two men seem to have been simultaneously treading parallel paths through the imaginal realm.
The revelations of this research hold deep consequences for modernity’s assumptions of a disenchanted world, and bring to the surface implications concerning the nature of imagination and its participatory relationship to the collective unconscious. In this presentation, I will point to the possibility that Tolkien and Jung are preliminary guides on a journey to the depths of an ensouled cosmos in which imagination saturates the very foundations of reality.
Since this original presentation was given in May 2014, I went on to make this subject the focus of my doctoral dissertation. A shorter presentation of the topic, given at the International Transpersonal Conference in Prague in September 2017, is available here: slideslive.com.... The video of my dissertation defense, from February 2018, is available here: • The Back of Beyond: Th... .
Becca S. Tarnas, Ph.D. is a scholar, artist, and editor of Archai: The Journal of Archetypal Cosmology. She received her doctorate in Philosophy and Religion from the California Institute of Integral Studies, with her dissertation titled The Back of Beyond: The Red Books of C. G. Jung and J. R. R. Tolkien. Becca received her B.A. from Mount Holyoke College in Environmental Studies and Theatre Arts, and M.A. in Philosophy, Cosmology, and Consciousness at CIIS. Her research interests include depth psychology, literature, philosophy, and the ecological imagination.
www.BeccaTarnas.com
Intro Music by Richard Wormstall

Пікірлер: 341

@chelseyk1252 6 жыл бұрын

This makes so much sense to me. “The relationship between the eye and evil is that it can’t look at itself, and if it does, then it is no more.” I think this is why it’s so necessary to reflect on our own dark tendencies; to look at the things we’d rather deny. Or, as in the Arthurian legends, be the knight that enters the forest at the place that looks darkest to you. To voluntarily look at what you most want to avoid. Going to have to stare at the wall for a while and absorb all of this, lol Brilliant presentation, really enjoyed it!

@tahwsisiht 4 жыл бұрын

♥️

@djbanerji5120 4 жыл бұрын

Such wisdom, these man were Sage,acknowledged or not. All who learn to understand such intricacies of the mind, (whether they themselves acknowledge it or not ) are also sages. A bud, a sapling or an old tree, every single stage of flora is in perfect sync with their environment. As a species, perhaps it is our fundamental nature: to be at peace with inner turmoil or conflict - using that to fuel our action.

@ApunkDaydreamLamunanOi 3 жыл бұрын

It is the key ingredient to Jungs psycho-analyse. A life without curiosity for the unconsciousness is dangerous life.

@frankpolo2088 3 жыл бұрын

...really great comment.

@dylangrieveable 3 жыл бұрын

Well spoken

@keyboarddancers7751 7 жыл бұрын

Never thought I'd hear anything connecting these two writers. Brilliant.

@robinriebsomer4607 7 жыл бұрын

Jung spoke of the collective unconscious. Here we have a demonstration of the collective unconscious in the parallels and amazing similarities between the images and the writings of Jung and Tolkien.

@fullmetaldg 6 жыл бұрын

yes, its like: you can explain Tolkein's work by reading Jung but not on the opposite. Jung explain how our unconscious speachs by the art, drems, viosons, etc

@karinanalbandyan3009 8 жыл бұрын

Amazing presentation. I think that we should put Nikola Tesla in the mix with Carl Jung & J. R. R. Tolkien. Nikola Tesla also had his visions. He's inventions appeared to him as a vision and he would work it out with mathematics. Tesla was a remarkable genius. Tesla also said that imagination is more real than life itself. And he also discovered something. Nikola Tesla was able to tap into some type of a universal source of knowledge.

@kdcruz75 8 жыл бұрын

he was giving birth of the future in his present time ....we all do it collectively at a sub consciuos level and also effect the future ..the creatives happen to pick these signals ...and it comes out in metaphors ... google : matt damon shadow black dog star the floodgates are open to whosoever wishes to enter it and access the INNER_NET.. imagination is about tapping into the past as well as the future ...we also in the present effect the past and the future when we access the inner net ....more so collectively via the individual imaginarium .. i seem to observe it in movie trailers and billboards

@Sothpawman 7 жыл бұрын

Aliens

@juliusdodong4426 7 жыл бұрын

Karina Nalbandyan hi karina i also too believe that imagination is more real than life itself... cg jung is great but i was new to tolkien

@taariqm-star6162 7 жыл бұрын

Akashic Records

@karinanalbandyan3009 7 жыл бұрын

Julius Dodong I think you will find this presentation very interesting

@arain1234 8 жыл бұрын

Great talk. Both Jung and Tolkien were modern geniuses. Their insights into the Imaginal world are very timely for the modern world, because modernity only considers the material world to have "reality". There are even deeper convergences. The existence of the Imaginal world is common to all spiritual traditions, all the way back to shamanism (Don Juan, etc, etc, etc). However, the person to give the most detailed theoretical explanation of this realm was the Muslim, Ibn Arabi in the 12th-13th century, read Henri Corbin's "Creative Imagination in the Sufism of Ibn Arabi", and "Sufi Path of Knowledge" by William Chittick. Contrary to current perceptions, the Muslim tradition, particularly it's Sufi aspect, has a lot to contribute to this. It was not for no reason that when Jung, who considered himself a gnostic ('Arif, in sufi terms), when asked by Miguel Serrano what religion he would have chosen if he had to, picked Islam as his religion of choice (ref: Serrano, "CG Jung and Hermann Hesse: A Record of Two Friendships").

@peterbrown7688 5 жыл бұрын

Riz A Yes, I thought things were leading me in this direction...the mundus imaginalis of certain Sufi masters.

@joannefisher3281 6 жыл бұрын

I've always loved Smith of Wootton Major. I think it's one of my favourite pieces of writing by Tolkien. Lately I've been re-reading a lot of Tolkien again. Last year I had a crisis and almost committed suicide one night (in fact I was saved by a knife that was too blunt to do any real damage) and since then I have lost myself in tales from the First Age of Middle-earth both from the Silmarillion and the Book of Lost Tales. I feel it's been helping me heal. Tolkien's writings have always been one major thing in my life that have helped keep me together. I've got many many books by Tolkien and about Tolkien, and I had never actually heard of The Book of Ishness before. So that is something new to me by Tolkien that you have introduced me to and I thank you for that.

@Becca.Tarnas 6 жыл бұрын

Dear Joanne, thank you for your comment. I've turned to Tolkien for solace many times in the past before and certainly found healing there. I hope you may continue to do so as well. If you're interested in viewing what is published of The Book of Ishness, I would recommend obtaining a copy of Hammond and Scull's "J.R.R. Tolkien: Artist & Illustrator," which contains a large quantity of Tolkien's best artwork. I was surprised how few of Tolkien's biographers discuss, or even mention, his artwork and The Book of Ishness, but I believe it's an essential piece to understanding who he was and how his relationship to imagination developed.

@greymanBB 3 жыл бұрын

Women attempt suicide more often but are less successful at it. Men attempt suicide somewhat less often, it are terribly efficient at it. Male suicide rates are high in the western world. Just an aside.

@peterribolli8300 4 жыл бұрын

The connection between these two great men is rooted in "Alchemy and Gnosticism", something both these men partook off, but could not openly express in the time or age they lived in. This is partly the reason for Yungs book, "The Red Book" not being published until 50 odd years after his death. 50 odd minutes into this talk so I hope this is a relevant comment. I go back to the talk now. Cheers:)

@TheFool108 7 жыл бұрын

I have been waiting for someone far more brilliant and articulate than I to start a conversation about the Red Books. Thank you for this insightful and moving comparison. Beautiful presentation!

@TheFool108 7 жыл бұрын

PS. Sam carrying Frodo up the slopes of Mt Doom is also arguably my favorite passage in the LOTR

@WeekndWarriorrr 5 жыл бұрын

This aligns with everything I've been searching and researching. I had a similiar profound or visionary experience and became obsessed with trying to understand it. Thank you for finding these sychronicities.

@powerslaveraimon 8 жыл бұрын

Thank you so much for this! KZfaq suggested this video to me, without searching, becaue I have seen many videos of Jung and also of Tolkien, and I was wondering about the relation between those two wise old men who smoke in pipes, wrote red books and were great portals to the imagination for humanity. Very inspiring! Thank you so much again!

@sylvaingrandcerf6486 8 жыл бұрын

Wonderful presentation given by Becca Tarnas. Very inspiring. Her knowledge of Tolkien is inspiring too.

@brettw2429 8 жыл бұрын

Thank you. This is lovely, a wonderful amplification of archetype as it emerged synchronistically through two of our great elders.

@EdibleObelisk 6 жыл бұрын

i was playing keyboard while listening to this lecture just improvin as per. just letting my hands move were they wanted they started playing a line from a track i composed years ago called the queen .this happen as same as she spoke the line "queen of his being" the synchronicity rush ,rocked me to my core ,it was then i realised that this track and a few other of my tracks from that time must be a musical representation of my anima.even the art avatars i chose for those tracks were females , one alien mysterious ,another a sexy robot.

@GrantLenaarts 5 жыл бұрын

edible obelisk the Synchroniciti rush such a great idea

@falcodarkzz 2 жыл бұрын

Nothing like confirmation bias to pick out chance events and create a false sense of meaning.

@kadagiangnosis3496 6 жыл бұрын

Who clicked on the thumbnail for the beautiful girl? good lure. great lecture

@velequest 5 жыл бұрын

I did, and I agree she is really pretty, and made even prettier by her intelligence.

@jared_r 5 жыл бұрын

I’m sure it helped with the 73k views

@PalCan 3 жыл бұрын

Bringing analytical psychology to the masses. My god, compare this with some of the things on Instagram or tiktok. What is happening to this world

@hamdoolam Жыл бұрын

She was cute I'm like if she's talking that's better. Lol not because she's hot. Because she's hot AND smart I hope

@Littleking444 2 жыл бұрын

The beauty of this woman makes her intellect that much more enjoyable.

@johntatum1951 8 жыл бұрын

She found an amazing synthesis or synchronicity between two great men.

@benjammin6692 7 жыл бұрын

John Tatum hummm...what is the definition of synchronicity. Synchronicity would be if Tolkien's grave, for example, had the same numbers for his dates on Jung's dates, but in a different order. Or again for example, if Jung was born in the same sign as Tolkien. Or again, if it rained in Vienna on Jung as he was reading and his sister happened to be wearing black that day at the same time as the news came of Tolkien's death. All these examples could be seen as a synchronicity between these two. (C.G. Jung, "Man and His Symbols")

@benjammin6692 7 жыл бұрын

Oh wait, you're correct. She did find it with the relation between the planets. Eery....

@criztu 5 жыл бұрын

Tolkien and Jung were alchemists, that's like finding things in common between two members of the same church...

@augustinfrancotte3163 2 жыл бұрын

This presentation is brilliant. And beautifully meaningful. I mean it. I'm currently reading and listening to Peter Kingsley, who speaks about Jung and the red book, so I guess youtube recommended this video after that, and damn, it is perferctly in line with Kingsley's works and all I'm personally looking for. His works focus on two too little known Greek philosophers, Parmenides and Empedocles, who set the roots of rationality and logic, and who he proved to be magicians, shamans, in a tradition of Apollo's cult and orphism. Where it connects with Jung is in that quote : the task is to give birth to the old in a new time. That's precisely what Kingsley did with his interpretation of these two philosophers. And he goes further, he explains their spiritual teachings and technics, and it's exactly what the conclusion of the presentation says : the symbols are to be experienced, they are beings, they manifest in human consciousness and we should open to welcome and recieve them. So, yeah, thank you for this, it's all coming together.

@mickhailu9295 6 жыл бұрын

Thank you so very much for this Becca Ternas. What a supreme introduction to this sublime book.

@Lelabear 7 жыл бұрын

Greetings Becca- Just wanted to let you know how much I enjoyed your presentation, thanks so much for this insight into the correlation between Jung and Tolkien. I'm one of those folks who reads LOTR yearly, so I appreciate the chance to tackle it in a new light this year, its been harder to get a fresh perspective since the movies added their twist. Keep up the good work, you're living my dream!

@Becca.Tarnas 7 жыл бұрын

Thank you so much, I'm really touched by this comment! It's been such a joy for me to explore this material, especially because I have found that it only deepens my relationship to Middle-earth, rather than deconstructing it. It is a world that continues to show new terrain the further one wanders its paths. I always appreciate meeting those who read The Lord of the Rings every year. It is a wonderful ritual.

@Lelabear 7 жыл бұрын

You're so welcome! I had the privilege of taking a graduate level Tolkien course years ago. The teacher, Dr. Buckalew, had a talent for presenting LOTR in context with his other writings and art. I know she would have been fascinated by your presentation, and I bet you would have loved her class!

@JackSaturday 8 жыл бұрын

Delightful, Becca Tarnas. Jung emphasized that his paintings were not art. Jung approached his visions with a scientific rigor. In a late letter he admitted that he wished he could have been a poet. It could be argued that Jung had vision but not music. Tolkien had both. You could say that Tolkien was Jung's wish fulfilled. Tolkien was Jung as poet/bard.

@bluenikayahjihbed965 6 жыл бұрын

so in that sense family.

@Poetic_Justice1962 7 жыл бұрын

The profoundness of Becca's investigations into the intertwining themes within the work of both great men is dazzling, but most importantly, profoundly moving and inspiring. You are already narrating your own Red Book, Becca, and I've had the privilege and joy of experiencing it here, be it a couple of years after the event. Your presentation of the intertwining archetypal visions of Faerie, Anima, the crossing of the Great Waters and the approach of the White Shores, and much more, moved and inspires - present tense - me greatly. A belated thank you is due.

@bluenikayahjihbed965 6 жыл бұрын

As i was young i had the same feelings of language, and art and always been intrested in psychology i remember my dreams as growing up i wished to become a teacher, a psychologist and a lawyer. obviously i wanted to give something to the world.. and finding back somehow. When i feel depressed and lonly (now) i finally feel that place where i feel im home and a deep sense of where i can rest. ive had visions, psychic ones, even dreams of war but of an atombomb in long distant far. my house was still ok.. a little cracked.. i dont know what all this can mean and i've tried to repress the synchronisities and the visions and dreams also.. in tears atm. just greatful. and to make the story longer even of the visions of blood as tolkien had it, but it was a vision of animals i remember seeing a pig with hollow eyes, without skin with a painted cross on its back in a sea of other animals such as horses, fish, cows... it was terrible but a long time ago now. i dont know why im writeing it here, just wanting to share

@esgietheqroue 10 жыл бұрын

A most inspiring lecture by a stunning lecturer. However, I must disagree with the statement that evil in Tokien's mythos was not derived from/present in Eru, the original God and creator. He himself says: "And thou Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite. For he that attemptet this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined" (The Silmarillion p 17-18.) Melkor probably perceived his rebellion as something of his own making, but in the end he was a child of Illuvatar's thought, just like the other Ainur - everything of his being came from Eru, and so everything he did was part of Eru's great theme.

@Becca.Tarnas 10 жыл бұрын

Thank you for contributing this. The nature of evil and its presence in the being of Iluvatar is something I have wrestled with a lot, and of course especially in relation to Jung's perspective. The way you have presented this is clarifying my thought further around this issue. Thank you!

@Inertia888 6 жыл бұрын

I love the way you articulate these thoughts and ideas. It has been a number of years since I have read The Silmarillion, I am going to go to my library and put in a request for it. I will keep an eye open for you on this thread. Maybe we can chat.

@thebalancedway7639 6 жыл бұрын

I don't agree that evil was in Eru, because He destroys evil in the end. If you want to understand Eru, just read the Holy Bible, Eru is based on YHWH Elohim, or Lord God. As Tolkien was a Christian, he made sure to get his treatment of evil right. As we know, evil in the Bible is treated as a cancer, something that is unnatural and not supposed to exist in the universe, and that shall have its definite end. Which is exactly how we see it treated in Tolkien's mythos. Other teachings, which go against the Bible's view speak differently, because in them there is this idea of a "balance" between light and dark, good and evil, and a working towards integration of the two polarities. Which is akin to integrating health and disease. Even though such teachings outnumber the cosmology of the Bible. That's why Tolkien made orcs come from Elves, and being that they are a corrupt hybrid species, Tolkien made a point of it. He made a point in saying that extermination of something which is a mixture of good and evil, is the right thing to do. Thus Tolkien's cosmology is revealed to be Biblical, not derived from various other teachings. So no, evil in Tolkien's mythos most definitely did not derive from Eru, because that contradicts the entire point of the story as well as his own spiritual life. That's why Melkor was modeled on Satan. Melkor, just like Satan, was created perfect, but something occurred to corrupt him, to destroy that perfection. This is not really explicated upon in the Silmarillion. Nor in the Bible actually. It is lightly alluded to, here and there. *"And thou Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite. For he that attemptet this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined" (The Silmarillion p 17-18.)* Thus what Eru is saying there in that quote, is pretty much Tolkien's express statement of how He feels about God in real life and how he models Eru after YHWH: that even if evil tries, no matter what it tries, ultimately good wins, because only good is ever supposed to exist. And if good is the only thing that is supposed to exist, that cannot mean that Eru created evil, and hence all of the incredible suffering that takes place on Arda, just for the hell of it. Since He sternly warns and takes action when major rules are broken and creations overstep their boundaries. There would be no need for that if it had all been part of the plan, which is implied by the cosmologies that say good and evil are both from the beginning, equal and must integrate, to form some illusory third/higher state. "Melkor probably perceived his rebellion as something of his own making, but in the end he was a child of Illuvatar's thought, just like the other Ainur - everything of his being came from Eru, and so everything he did was part of Eru's great theme." The rebellion was his, because he was given free will. The Silmarillion even says this: 1) "He (Melkor) had gone often alone into the void places seeking the Imperishable Flame; for desire grew hot within him to bring into Being things of his own" 2) "But he (Melkor) desired rather to subdue to his will both Elves and Men, envying the gifts with which Ilúvatar promised to endow them; and he wished himself to have subjects and servants, and to be called Lord, and to be a master over other wills."

@eyeofgnosis558 2 жыл бұрын

Whether he did so knowingly or not (as his work is based on Christian and pagan mysticism, and hence ancient psychology), Tolkein created an amazing metaphor for the human brain in Middle Earth. The mythology of the Silmarillion has striking parallels with the development of a brain throughout infancy and up to adolescence whilst the Lord of the Rings is a perfect metaphor of the individuation process.

@artemismoonbow2475 4 жыл бұрын

I can't believe I have found this. I've been having only what I can explain as an awakening in the last year, an experience that in the past I would have been very skeptical of. In the past month I have been reading with voracious intensity the works of both Jung and Tolkien. I'm also finding a lot of themes that I meditate on coming up in online and real life spaces and I'm not certain which direction the causal arrow points or if it is endogenous. Perhaps it is an artificial aspect of the "algorithm" or perhaps evidence of collective consciousness. All I know is that the journey is becoming curiouser and curiouser, but like Alice, I cannot turn away.

@gerrythompson2122 7 жыл бұрын

Two of my biggest influences, nice that someone has taken the time to describe the correlations. Lovely girl and enchanting to listen to. Thank you.

@Btn1136 7 жыл бұрын

Awesome job. Huge undertaking to bring together Tolkien and Jung.

@NorthStarGeneral 7 жыл бұрын

This is simply brilliant, thank you for this insightful synthesis.

@user-fo7yz3pl8j 3 ай бұрын

One of the largest truths that the devil has locked away for centuries is that currency comes from art, and that art comes from prayer. ALL ART IS MIRACULOUS. If the "art" is not causing miracles, then it is NOT ART.

@verstrahlt1907 2 жыл бұрын

Becka is such a beauty-cutey-fairy, with nice voice and good explaining. Interesting project.

@dandannyt4432 5 жыл бұрын

Very caring thoughtful and sensitive approach... Brilliant

@NateJacobMusic 5 жыл бұрын

Looking forward to watching this in full, but I've really enjoyed the first 13 minutes. I just wanted to say congratulations on the doctorate; and I appreciate you linking the other videos in the description.

@cookq 9 жыл бұрын

Amazing that these two giants both felt the intense impress of the collective consciousness before WWI and struggled their entire lives to communicate what they had felt and experienced. Well played Becca!

@aduralkain 7 жыл бұрын

Amazing talk. Delightful, inspiring Elvish presence.

@professorhamamoto 7 жыл бұрын

A brilliant talk. I will be investing in the purchase of the "Red Book" so I can pour through it both randomly and in concentrated fashion. Public universities would benefit from having faculty members such as Ms. Tarnas to stanch its bleeding out by Wall Street and the City of London.

@carbon1479 8 жыл бұрын

6:40 - Ahh, she's a Steiner School graduate. Explains a lot. :)

@curcoo1542 7 жыл бұрын

The Hobbit "race" had a Red Book too. It held the genealogy and mythology from the days of The Wandering. The stories and ancestry were of utmost importance. Hobbits were something ignored by man, man was ignored by Hobbit. What is the benefit in remembering our myths? Might we be simple Hobbits, if we remembered?

@joanarcher9860 6 жыл бұрын

Wonderful presentation from such a young speaker. I admire the work of both Jung and Tolkien and this presentation has enlightened my understanding of how similar were some of the experiences they shared. Thank you, I thoroughly enjoyed.

@joejackson2102 2 жыл бұрын

Great job. Glad you unpacked this thread. I often thought there was a synchronicity between the two . Respectfully ,You are beautiful!

@smartcatcollarproject5699 7 жыл бұрын

Apparently it was Toni Wolff who invented the concept of anima/animus, at the origin of archetypes, while she was Jung's "second wife"...

@elgreatestweight 9 жыл бұрын

@1:05-"what was most essential was not interpreting the fantasies but experiencing them" “Whoever envisages it as the Existence becomes that existence and whoever envisages it as the Non-existence, becomes that non-existence;” so too it is with all else that we see of the Divine,-that, we may say, is at once the essential and the pragmatic truth of the Godhead. It is something beyond us which is indeed already within us… but whatever of it we see, we can create or reveal in our conscious nature and being and can grow into it, and so to create or reveal in ourselves individually the Godhead and grow into its universality and transcendence is our spiritual destiny.” (Aurobindo, SY, 587)

@mandys1505 6 жыл бұрын

at 29 minutes.. i like the description of the drawing, "the end of the world" because it is a more fantastic underlying explanation of the Fool Tarot Card.... i like it!

@constantingherghinoiu4541 9 ай бұрын

Great talk! Thank you!

@mysticnovelbro 3 жыл бұрын

this presentation was uploaded during quite a point in time, as things have been happening for the last couple of years in particular. The creative world is awakening, and on the surface level it appears reactionary, even though the elements of that would only fight in the face of creative subversion on almost every artistic and scholarly plateau. Excellence has awakened again, though we are much-better equipped to log and study such awakenings than we once were.

@bluenikayahjihbed965 6 жыл бұрын

Girl u are so talanted. everything ive just listend now fr 15 minutes and u bringing up things ive experienced and i thought it was a psychosis in the way u be thinking.... i miss that. and u wake up that for me. eternaly greatful sister

@magnusdanielsson2749 7 жыл бұрын

This reminds me very much of the book DMT The spirit molecule and experiences those who take dmt have. One question the author have is wether some people naturally have higher levels of dmt or somehow produce it spontaneously. He also speculates that dmt can be released during highly stressful experiences. Also there is the experiences of Terrence McKenna and also those of Graham Hancock. And then of corse you have Dr Jordan Peterson and his ideas about stories and psychology. Fascinating stuff.

@stuartschneiderman8517 7 жыл бұрын

A brilliant presentation. It certainly captured all my attention. I've seen the paintings of people diagnosed as suffering with schizophrenia and there is no doubt that they were in touch with a transpersonal mytho-poetic realm. The main difference with these people and those like Jung and Tolkien being that the latter were able to balance the products of the collective unconscious them with coherent ego consciousness. The fact that Tolkien was able to write the Lord of the rings before the outbreak of the second world war suggests that what is normally called reality reflects a deeper reality that Jung describes as the collective unconscious or the objective psyche I've watched all the ring movies but haven't read any Tolkien but since listening to this presentation the books have come alive and I will certainly read them.. And yes, definitely an elf.

@Inertia888 6 жыл бұрын

If you find this stuff interesting and you have yet to read Jung's or Tolkien's work, please do yourself a solid and start with some early Jung and then move on to Tolkien's Silmarillion, most of this reading is a bit difficult but is certainly well worth it. You will gain a much deeper perspective on the matter. Surely will thank yourself in the end.

@minimaxx21 6 жыл бұрын

darrick steele really great talk, could comprehend to and feel with a lot of these ideas. On the astrology talks I'm lost. Came here more from a McKenna or Watts introduction.

@humanvoice369 5 жыл бұрын

Jung psychologically describes the creative experience that Tolkein spontaneously went through. Singularity.

@bowser_inthe_darkworld2 7 жыл бұрын

Phenomenal presentation. I'm especially interested in the theme of a "spider" or "many-legged beast" as an archetype of the central core of one's dark night of the soul... It's fascinating how another writer, H.P. Lovecraft, also placed the many-tenctacled Cthulhu as a central dweller in the depths. It seems to resonate with the many coiled serpents of kundalini resting in the darkness and waiting to be woken up, so powerful that they can both destroy and create.

@StackofPancakes126 3 жыл бұрын

I'm also very interested in the spider archetype. This summer, I had a moderate psilocybin trip where I identified myself as a spider. That some of my traits were spiderlike. Cunning and creative and machavelian. But that image of the spider was so strong. And then to see it as a representation of a dark night. It brings a new light to my trip

@donovanallen 2 жыл бұрын

Read about the Sethians (Gnostic Christians) and the Nag Hammadi texts. There is some interesting exploration of serpent versus dragon.

@grainofsand4176 2 жыл бұрын

I jumped here from a "rune soup" episode and wanted to be sure to share : John Vervaeke's insightful "awakening from the meaning crisis". It's an in depth lecture on exactly what this intro speaker says about her insightful quote. I look forward to hearing this and more from her💜

@lancewalker2595 Жыл бұрын

There are some interesting parallels between Tolkien and Nietzsche as well, perhaps that sounds ridiculous, but in fact I think it makes a great deal of sense.

@mountainmanws 7 жыл бұрын

Enjoyable presentation and explaining more about Tolkien's thoughts. I still don't understand the planetary effects. I am currently reading The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings to my grandson. The symbolism of the EYE as the modern NSA is excellent. Full disclosure: I once worked for the NSA when they were the good guys. Hope you have your doctorate, Miss Becca. Thank you for posting.

@bearmare9710 7 жыл бұрын

Great presentation. It's interesting how certain agile minds are able to find a means to interpret their visions. Tesla's name came up, but one could toss in Van Gogh and perhaps even Einstein.

@barthingston1 9 ай бұрын

Cool, what she did. Hard to read it all in good context and at the same time, get the meaning. Thanks for your effort! Appreciated.

@tod7977 5 жыл бұрын

It's said here that the speaker is unfamiliar with the language of psychology, so she'll read it through the lens of imagination and imagery, however as James Hillman says specifically of the red book, this is the true language of psychology. Great talk. 👌

@jsneuzilagent9940 2 жыл бұрын

You have cultivated this topic wit earnest fastidiousness; thank you for relating jung to Tolkien.

@justinfournier3894 3 жыл бұрын

This is important. Thank you for the upload

@Istari68 4 жыл бұрын

I keep coming back to this lecture...has this been published?

@Becca.Tarnas 4 жыл бұрын

The dissertation has been published and is available through university libraries. To view the defense of the dissertation on this topic, which is its most developed form, please see: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/admfgrySz665coE.html

@avatareyes1 6 жыл бұрын

wonderful presentation (...and presenter!)

@insiderartteachers3111 9 жыл бұрын

Both were born with Lilith linked to first house. Jung Lilith in Aquarius exalted in first house. Tolkien Lilith in mutual reception with ascendant's ruler Mercury. Lilith seems to be linked to psychology, fiction, film, comics, and so on. Neptune to fantasy and imagination. Don't leave out Robert Ervin Howard's Conan series.

@Brutus1Buckeye 7 жыл бұрын

I understood none of this. Care to explain? Long shot seeing this was written 2 years ago. Why do they keep talking about planets? Edit: I haven't read Jung's Red Book yet so maybe that's a stupid question.

@arain1234 8 жыл бұрын

The shadow enters the world through the creation of the human being. The shadow enters as the "other" side of free will. The light and shadow do not go all the way back to the Beginning, only to the beginning of the "being with free will".

@Wingedmagician 6 жыл бұрын

I love this so much.

@TheProudKiwi 2 жыл бұрын

Image at 25:41 is the "beginning" or "origin light" of everything. It starts with the source light (1) becoming 2 flames (2) then (4) he does not show past the door just our path from the door/light.

@PalCan 3 жыл бұрын

Beautiful work. Thank you so much

@billwiggy 6 жыл бұрын

The part about Philemon and the trees had me like whoa

@thegloriousmoodman2152 2 жыл бұрын

Was just telling someone that I thought these 2 Red Books were... channeled from the same muse. And that The Trilogy was not fiction. I bet Tolkien had seen Jung's book. The elves left, parting their spirits back to Saturn and their souls to the moon, to be sent back to earth as the souls of men. That’s what Arwen ' s dilemma represents.

@hoodwink578 5 жыл бұрын

The Great Flood, that both Jung & Tolkein had visions of, actually happened about 12,000 years ago. Look into Graham Hancock's work "Magicians of the Gods." I believe both Jung & Tolkein were recalling the same genetic memory. Numenor was Atlantis...

@andew8922 6 жыл бұрын

Don't we all have our own tall tales to tell tapping into our imagination i love how she mentions JRR was like a man from another time spoke 19 languages both these gentlemen tapped into something . I think JRR is Frodo coming back to retell his story in this timeline kind of like other authors i know where do they get these grand adventurous tales from fantasy pah mythology pah more to them then meets the eye lovely video what's in a name Tarnas still very interesting name . She might have a quizzical mind for this stuff or just maybe it's something deeper maybe her past is calling her to a time long forgotten fascinating

@bluenikayahjihbed965 6 жыл бұрын

Its crazy to have that kind of feeling that touches u so deep and i be thinking like are these some distant familymembers of mine who are paveing a future and guidelines for me ?

@michaljosealtadelescubaies4118 3 жыл бұрын

thank you for sharing, a way that one would understand the major differences between the two people is that one participated in the understanding of the Devine famine while the other got glimpse of it.

@JP51ism 4 жыл бұрын

The image @29:00, The End of the World, or "the step" looks like that of "The Fool" which starts the Tarot deck (# 0, zero) ~ who isn't so much of a fool, but a divine child whose soul is embarking on an endeavor (also featuring a sun image [without the dog in Tarot]).

@artemis12061966 7 жыл бұрын

THIS is an amazing lecture.

@jameswhelan1066 7 жыл бұрын

Somebody give this woman an endowed chair and a talkshow!

@Ankhubuntu 9 жыл бұрын

Too goooooooooood! I understand hundred percent of what she says. Even though i cannot remember why i clicked on this vid. you know what I'll subscribe you upload interesting stuff.

@answers.questioned 4 жыл бұрын

The first Lord of the Rings was released in 2001 and The Red Book published in 2009, but she claims they were both being produced in the 90s...I'm confused.

@Becca.Tarnas 4 жыл бұрын

The Lord of the Rings films were filmed in the 90s and the decision to publish The Red Book was made in the mid-90s-gestation, not birth in both cases.

@drubber007 7 жыл бұрын

A great presentation. My question to Becca would be, have you ever taken psilocybin. I think she would have an awesome experience.

@kurtbarks6270 2 жыл бұрын

How does the third dimension understand the 4th? Those men had such fierce intellects and awareness. The presenter shares the wonder and the burden with those men. I loved this presentation. It makes me think of Carl Sagan.

@iammatty777169 8 жыл бұрын

Jung, Tolkien, both of these ICONS have these unique Red books? I cannot imagine how this could be a coincidence of epic magnitude. presented by a very smart and beautiful women. (never let your partner do the introduction) that was funny ;-)👍

@distortiontildeafness 6 жыл бұрын

there's also Mao's red book which is quite good too :)

@adamkadmon2730 6 жыл бұрын

+Deathculture You might like mein kampf too. Not as bloody as mao though

@johnathandisselhoff6181 Жыл бұрын

i really enjoyed this discussion. presenter was very informed and very nice.

@BigRed4231 9 жыл бұрын

Wonderful stuff Becca.

@FreemanPresson 8 жыл бұрын

I suppose you've remarked on the Tarot-ish quality of the Ishness images. I doubt that Tolkien engaged with Tarot, but he could well have seen early modern emblem books at some point.

@Becca.Tarnas 8 жыл бұрын

I have brought the Tarot element into the discussion in my dissertation, especially in relation to the image "End of the World." Thank you for watching!

@Poetic_Justice1962 7 жыл бұрын

Yes, I immediately recognized the Fool card in Tolkien's image. The leap into, or surrender to the cosmic realm of alchemy. Fantasy: Tolkien's field and language. Alchemy: Jung's field and language. Both fields and languages converge through the imagination, the archetypal: synchronicity. Incredible. You're really enlightening people to the meaning behind the words and the images, Becca. I'm a life-long Jung and Tolkien "fan", by the way, so your lecture was a - rare - treat for me.

@curcoo1542 7 жыл бұрын

Becca Segall Tarnas can't find the discussion you mentioned. I've been performing an experiment using Tarot as a tool for myth construction. I separate Major and Minor Arcana. I use a fifteen card modified cross spread using just the Major Arcana. I study the archetypical story of the spread. Then I take the minor Arcana and pull fifteen more cards atop the 15 major. I can essentially send the minor Arcana cards through the myth set by the Major Arcana. From here I can draw the remainder of the deck for layer after to layer of one myth. Tarot is a subconscious language in picture form. Like a dream. Idk i thought you might have some input

@unchiekun 6 жыл бұрын

Awesome presentation

@seymourtompkins 5 жыл бұрын

wtf ? JRR Tolkien one of the most important humans to walk the earth in the last 100 years...this dude is such a 'mellenial', your reputation really is well deserved Also, for first timers here, this doesn't even get going until 11:43

@helenparr8527 7 жыл бұрын

Most beautiful woman I have ever seen. Nice presentation as well. Great work.

@annemariehujova3862 7 жыл бұрын

But she IS an elf! Look at her...

@mogtrader8 4 жыл бұрын

People have always used their surroundings as a muse. This is common, it began when human beings sought the stars and celestial bodies. That's where myths began, that's where stories, and legends came to be, as well as the biblical story.

@innerspacesurfer 4 жыл бұрын

You are very smart.

@keithnisbet 5 жыл бұрын

Refreshing perspective from a budding Scholar.

@zoltanfabian7331 5 жыл бұрын

Know something about archetypes from other's "speech" is nice, but meet personally those archetypes, this another level of consciousness...

@SlabSweptClean 3 жыл бұрын

Lecture starts at 4:00

@PleasureBot 5 жыл бұрын

Isn't she lovely! :p And the info is awesome too. Thanks. Great delivery style.

@soup2634 4 жыл бұрын

Awesome. :) Thank you.

@maxfrank13 3 жыл бұрын

Check out Lance S. Owens' lectures on Jung and Tolkien.

@funkyboodah 6 жыл бұрын

whoa... if this is true this is FUCKING NUTS that these two guys HAD THE SAME DAMN VISIONS

@markgeorgeff9816 6 жыл бұрын

sure they weren't the only ones...at that time in Europe... Tolkien had fought in ww1 in the trenches, which if for that horrible experience -- losing some very close boyhood friends on the battle field -- but, still so vital to his work... I'm a huge fan of both and devoured the Rings Trilogy first...but really devoured Jung's autobiography Dreams, Recollections and Memories (?) in a long weekend...I felt like finally -- this writer ,this JUNG is telling my story!

@thomasjefferson1010 8 жыл бұрын

stephen hoeller lecture The Psychology of the Spirit (jung lectures) says Jung himself exploring spiritual phenomenon referred to fairy tale as seperate category and very helpful in accessing 'numinous' --- and was most interested.... references to tolkien yes...

@thegloriousmoodman2152 Жыл бұрын

1:20:09 "Evil can't look at itself. If it does then it is no more. "

@martin36369 4 жыл бұрын

I find the spiraling on the two torch pillars of "Before" interesting, in that if going upwards they also move towards the entrance

@Jesse-fk3xc 3 жыл бұрын

The red book is an American women's magazine that is published by the Hearst Corporation. It is one of the "Seven Sisters", a group of women's service magazines.