Realistically you need to redesign the wings for new engines and mounts, and at that point you would want to redesign the fuselage, for improved efficiency. At that point you would a new aircraft.

One can only dream that the Queen would be modernized with two monster engines and live on for decades more. You really hit the nail on the head in the video when you said passengers prefer point to point over hub and spoke. I would pay a premium for that. Anytime you can eliminate a connection, your odds of having an on time flight just doubled.

I worked at Boeing for 35 years, including a short stint on the 747 program where I was supporting major structural modifications including conversion to the Airborne Laser (ABL) test bed. When I was working in Preliminary Design in the late 1980s, rumor had that Alan Mulally when he was responsible for new product development had a model of the 747 where he removed two engines and proclaimed to everyone "This is what the customers want!". That essentially is what the airlines got with the design of the 777-200/300. The original 747-200 had a three-class passenger capacity of 366, and the extended upper deck 747-300/400 increased the count to 400. The Japanese airlines with the 747SR increased the passenger count up to 498 to 550 for domestic flights. The 777-200 has a three class passenger capacity of 305 passengers, and the 777-300 has a three class passenger capacity of 368, although the exit configuration would permit up to 550 passengers. The 777-9 will have three class seating of 357 and two class seating of 426 passengers. Other than Emirates though, there is very little demand for ultra large capacity airplanes. Airlines might have a need 10 or 20 for slot constrained airports currently. That is not a large enough customer base to justify a new airplane program. Airbus when they launched the A380 was betting on slot constraints favoring very large aircraft. Airbus may be eventually proven right but they missed the timing by 20 years or so.

Hub and spoke and point to point are not competing models. They are complimentary models. Mass transit in a wide body is very different than commuter traffic.

I'll never forget crossing the border in a school bus on a road trip to Everett to tour the Boeing plant in grade 10, 1970. The "parking lot" was full of new planes in livery and not. The films on the special train going up the hill, the going through one being built, etc. All these years later I am still impressed.

Thanks so much for some quality Christmas viewing Petter! All the best to you and your family :)

I am 62 years young, travel a lot, and have flown on many different aircraft in my lifetime, including many trips on 747s . My very first trip over the pond was on one (and I even got to sit in the cockpit for a few minutes, sure miss those days). Though newer, twin designs, are much more efficient I still think that there has never been, and probably will never be in my lifetime, a more beautiful aircraft. I just got back from Europe a few days ago, having flown through Frankfurt. This is a very busy, very large airport and I spotted virtually every plane currently being flown, including A-380s and 747s...and the 747 STILL stands out among them all! SO sad that it will no longer be produced. It is only a matter of time before every one is in the scrap heap but as they say, all good things must come to an end.

Biggest impressions of the Jumbo - 1) being on the top deck for a long haul through sheer luck 2) watching the Space Shuttle being flown piggyback over Glasgow (Scotland) many years ago. Still a favourite plane, so iconic. I compare the A380 to a flying brick - and think of Douglas Adams' book "Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" when I see it flying in to Glasgow airport. Amazing machine.

I had a poster of her cockpit in my bedroom when I was a kid. Later, during High School, I flew her to Europe shortly after her introduction. Then, I worked in the oil industry and flew her monthly all around the globe for hundreds and hundreds of hours (I even sat in 1A a few times). And finally, I retired, moved to the Seattle area, and saw the final '47 on the ramp just after rollout from the Everett factory. Now, I just plain miss her.

Rolls Royce is likely developing a big, big engine to accommodate newer, bigger airplanes and smaller airplanes, as well. We have seen issues arise when smaller engines have been scaled up. It might be easier to avoid issues to scale down an engine rather than scaling up an engine. For instance, the engine core may remain the same while the fan and gears may be changed out.

Very in-depth view and comprehensive way of easily laying down the information. Keep on the good work!

This video is super-informative! Besides the actual topic, you gave a huge amount of data on many past, current, and future Boeing and Airbus models, and related engines.

Went to the factory tour for the 747 10 years ago. Have also seen the dreamliner assembly. Totally different setups 747 was like a old car factory everything is put together on the line. The dreamliner is like a simple model kits of a few parts glued together.

As of 4 days ago they announced completion of the Ultrafan and that it runs on SAF, Sustainable Aircraft Fuel, and are already beginning testing

It’s amazing how large the bypass ratio of modern passenger jet engines have become compared to corporate jets and much older 737 and 707 passenger jets

I always come away intellectually satisfied after watching your videos. I'm an aviation geek at heart, and absolutely love your videos.

15:27 Regarding gear-driven fans - assuming the graphics are accurate, that's a basic planetary (aka epicyclic) gear set, invented by the Greeks over 2000 years ago...and is the same as is used in everything from traditional automatic transmissions in cars, to drive chucks in hand drills. There many be some detail of construction or materials P&W may have patented, I guess...but the basic layout is up for grabs as far as I can tell.

A great video. I'm impressed that you covered so many of the issues and considerations that manufacturers and operators are analysing in under 20 minutes and without a single thing that I would query.

One of the main reasons Emirates A380 are full between UK and Dubai is because of the clientel flying between the UK and India, Pakistan and Bangladesh. I have often flown from Birmingham to the far East, via Dubai, the A380 leg to Dubai is always packed. The same can be said for LHR to Dubai.

Always a good informative Story, thanks Mentour! 👀👌

It's unlikely that Rolls Royce would get that far ahead developing a new engine unless they had a target aircraft in mind.

Ive stood in front of the Ultrafan in its new test bed and she is massive. That said the RB 211 seems massive too but is now the norm. We can only hope to see the Queen of the skys fly into the future with a new lease of life.

Fantastic research to put this together. Happy New Year!

Hi, thanks for sharing this. So please keep us updated with the latest developments.

I am not a pilot, but as a mechanical type person your videos are awesome. Thank you so much.

Merry Christmas Petter! Thank you for yet another absolutely fantastic podcast.

Steph, please DO NOT change your content. I fly out of Moorabbin SR20 TPS and SVS. Watching you makes flying very local, I have learned so much from you. Just keep up the great work.

Great video Petter. Thank you 🙏

The 747 in the Museum of Flight in Seattle has an extra-large engine, I believe from a dreamliner. This was for testing the engine on an existing airframe.

I wonder if that massive RR Engine would be better suited to a AN-124/225 style large aircraft with overhead wings. It gives plenty of room for the 3+ meter cowling.

I love this channel. Thank you!

A fun video; I hadn't known about such a big engine in development.

Hi Petter. I really want to buy a shirt, but I always feel a little scruffy in a crew neck tee shirt. I wonder if other people would be interested in a branded Polo shirt? I'd love something subtle that shows my appreciation for your work in Aviation and education.

Fascinating "teaser" presentation. Bravo! Cannot wait to find out the outcome..

Thank you for making this video❤❤❤❤

A production run of about 50 years over the different variants. That's the mark of a great concept.

We are looking at the Boeing 777X with an extended upper or, rear deck to accommodate additional passengers. It is doable, based on research carried out years ago on the proposed Boeing 767X. Super video. ❤️

I started flying on the 747 in the 1980’s and it has always been my favourite aircraft. My last flight on 747 was in February 2020 with British Airways to Chicago return, although at the time never knew it would be my last on that wonderful aircraft. Now starting to fly again post Covid, the A380 is my preferred aircraft to fly, I will be in a BA 380 to Washington DC in a couple weeks.😮

Drove past Longreach in Queensland, Australia the other day on my way north to Darwin and saw a massive structure on the right side of the road. It was of course the open hangar for the Qantas 707 and 747 on display near their original hangar. Would have stopped in but I had a few kilometres to cover that day.

I would love videos contrasting and comparing Boeing, Airbus, Embraer, and whatever other mfg/series planes are significant. (One vid per mfg/series/category (biz jets, popular GA aircraft, fighter jets, etc)).

I don’t travel much (and never internationally and I’m in the US if that helps), but I’ve always dreamed of flying on a 747 or even an A380. Heck, I’ve never even flown in a two aisle aircraft. Just makes me sad to see these giants retiring. When I do fly, I talk to the flight attendants about which planes they’ve been on. I’m 35 years old and feel I’ve missed on the best aviation has to offer (let alone flying on a Concorde but that’s a whole different world).

My grandfather worked for Boeing from the P26 to 1971 when he was forced to retire by Boeing. Great video as always

I love the 747. I have fond memories of flying to Asia from San Francisco many times in the early 2000s 2017. There was no better feeling than settling in for a long flight on a foggy Friday night ❤

Merry Christmas Peter, hopefully we could see the 747 with 2 engines, I'm just curious about their exact placement in the wings though.

I’m surprised you didn’t bring Kelsey into the discussion given that you were talking about the 747. It would have been interesting to hear what he would say about the prospect of flying a jet as large as the one he does with only two engines, especially in light that the same day you released this video he released one about a small jet loosing both of its engines and having to try to land.

Thanks for the video 👍

I think the Slot constraints at airports will be the driver of a huge twin engined A380/747. The A380 is rather compact in size for the number of passengers it carries. Also Airport size constraints may also bring in the big double floored jets. Stretcht versions of widebodies take up way more parking space, and I think that a lot of airports are in need of more gates for their Passenger volume. So shorter double story aircraft may be the only way to go.

Shame that the A380 and 747 have gone... Certainly the main standout feature of the Jumbos is the ability to make the most of a landing slot, so for some places there will still be a demand for a really large aircraft... It's also worth bearing in mind that Rolls Royce make jet turbines for other purposes than aircraft (although that is their main market) such as ships for examples.

I always wondered if a re-engineering of the existing 747 with new composites, materials, engines and fly by wire systems could make it more efficient and cost effective. Giving the air-frame a new life.

Excellent video. Thanks!

I was born in Seattle in 1967, and my dad was laid off in 1970. Our family had to move out of the region because he couldn't find decent work anywhere (Aerospace engineer). My parents struggled, and we moved to several states between 1970 and 1979, when he moved us all back to Seattle.

If the autoclave was not require for composites it would open the wing design for advanced types. A 747 with cranked delta wing optimized for high subsonic cruising. Combined with the new engines & redesigned nose would yield a incredible aircraft.

In 1980s the 767 was Boeing's first widebody twin and it also had ETOPS for North Atlantic ops.

The point to point vs hub and spoke discussion is an interesting one. I honestly see point to point making sense for continental travel and hub and spoke for intercontinental travel like say JFK to Heathrow. It will be interesting to see how things change in the coming year with ever more efficient small aircraft.

Thank you for sharing

Could Rolls-Royce be developing that huge engine for a military cargo plane? They tend to have their wings on top of the fuselage and would, therefore, have the room for such a large engine. Just a thought P s. I love your channel, and, Merry Christmas!

I like your reasoning! The Queen of the Skies was the first aircraft I boarded when I was a kid. I cried a river when I heard she would slowly but surely disappear from our skies. I hope this new version of an iconic aircraft will come to be. Merry Christmas! 🎅 ✈ 🎄🎇🎁

Awesome episode, explains a lot why the changes in aviation plane models

Love your program 😊

All I know is Rolls Royce are recruiting pretty heavily in the U.K. right now. They’re definitely pretty confident that their nuclear/jet order book will remain full for awhile.

The A380 is one of the most comfortable and quietest planes in existence (as a passenger). I love flying Emirates for that very reason. I'm always delighted when I see that my Emirates route is onboard an A380 v.s. a B777.

I absolutely LOVE both of your channels. You were born to do this…..and fly, of course!

What an excellent analysis.

I saw the maiden flight of the 747, coming down Hood Canal, and making a turn to go back over water, and back the way it came, right over my grade school ball field. Ya don't forget stuff like that!

What about an upscaled passenger jet version of the A400M? Would have enough space for huge engines, and would demonstrably also work for freight.

Could probably find a market in East Asia with the high population, major tourist destinations, and popularity of short overseas vacations to nearby countries. The 747SR was developed to demand from Japan, after all.

Very insightful.

I was a 767 body structures mechanic and I was awestruck by the size of the 777 engines and the wing tests videos

Maybe for the C5 Galaxy or the next C17. Why not a passanger airplane in the wing configuration of a C17 or an Airbus A400? Would be great and enough space for bigger engines i guess.

For example GE90-115B has more than double the thrust compared to the JT9D from a 747, but I guess that's not enough then, how much more thrust do we need to basically turn a quad jet into a twin jet?

I've been speculating the possibility of this ever since the introduction of those new Monster GE engines!! So sad that the final 747 has been produced! I was fortunate enough to ride a few planes that had ended production years earlier but were still in service in great numbers! 727s and DC9s mostly. I did ride a DC10 from Baltimore to London.

i spent over 25 years working in aviation at Manchester Airport,one of my greatest failures is never being able to fly on a 747,for me better than concorde,loaded pushed back 747s,but never flew in one,beautiful aircraft,alas i will never get that chance,disabled so unable to afford to fly on one

My dream is the big planes coming back. A world with only little bangers stinging around like wasps would be heartbreaking. There's nothing better than seeing massive objects seemingly just hanging in the air, floating. So beautiful 💙💛

Problem is at the moment something like 2 Trent xwbs could power and A380. But once you’re over V1 on takeoff you have to go around if you have an engine failure therefore a 2 engined jumbo would have to be able to perform a go around on one engine which is very difficult.

Excellent and Outstanding!!!!!

4:21 ❤ the 747-SP.

I recently flow LGW SIN on completely packed Emirates A380s. Really love that plane. Flew in 747s in the late 90s, and upper deck was cool, but still A380 is nicer. I think point to point is only applicable to the US, most countries only have one or two busy airports

Maybe RR is doing these engines for future new Mriya version? 🤔😆 It will be a fantastic experience to see an engine bigger than my home...

I work with the electricity industry and despite the rise of renewable energy the heavy frame industrial gas turbines running in combined cycle gas turbine power stations are the workhorse of the industry. The general rule is that the bigger the turbine the more efficient it is. Using that logic, making really big jet turbines for planes is an obvious next step.

With composites at the forefront of wing technology like they've become, one could design the wing AROUND the giant engine (flowing above and below) so it wouldn't have to be slung under the wings but rather the center of the shaft would be centered on the wing. Maybe that would be the time to switch to a flying wing design as has been speculated for decades as being the most efficient.

Let's begin a _"KickStarter"_ Campaign to build an all new composite body 747X *3* engined Tri-Jet Combi airplane with an *"S"* duct engine inlet in a T-Tail configuration where the customers can choose to mount engines 1 & 3 in nacelles either under the wings or mounted to the aft fuselage like a MD 80. In addition it would need to have an aft cargo ramp too and air stairs integrated into the fuselage.

I love that emirates can keep flying the titanics of the sky in the configuration that fits the title. Not carrying freight, but passengers

Perfect Engine for a 2 or 3 Engine Blended Wing Body aircraft. Placing the Engines on top eliminates the ground clearance problem. Also, a possible perfect fit for a 2 Engine high wing aircraft (next gen C-17, C-5 version or 4 engine AN-225 next gen?)

Also if you were building a monster twin with 3.56m engines you'd probably want it to be high winged. That complicates design of the empennage and rear fuselage (to avoid tail strike) but offsetting that means the landing gear can be much lighter and more compact. Plus loading/unloading is simpler (you don't need airbridges to be so high and may be able to have a ramp for freight and luggage). But this means you would make a clean sheet design rather than modify the 747.

Excellent analysis. I'd love to see a 747 rebirth.

I'd be interested in a deeper dive into P&W/Raytheon's patent claim. I know the graphic used in the video isn't completely comprehensive, but at first glance it seems the crux of the model is a planetary gear assembly. Planetary gears are not revolutionary by any stretch since they have been used for centuries, but I don't know what other technologies were included in the patent.

Love your videos Petter. Can you let me know where I can find that cool desk lamp?

I can't even remember that last time I even seen a 747 or quad engine passenger jet at Pittsburgh international 🤷‍♂️ wasn't sure if they even still flew them.

Several years ago at Casper WY I saw a 747 with a 777 engine on the left inboard wing. They were testing the 777 engine. Not much ground clearance.

I knew it. They should redo the 747-SP with 2 engines. Big passenger load smaller foot print...very efficient and versatile...

Efficiency made the first B747, maybe efficiency makes the new one? What I have come up with is the following: 1. All advanced composites. As pointed out before, this usually points to smaller aircraft due to development costs and smaller planes tending to be made in higher numbers than large planes. But maybe when combined with some other things, the numbers of large planes needed will go up. 2. LNG cooled superconductors for hybrid electric engines. The reason why gear reductions were not used in the past is higher maintenance. You can put a superconducting electric motor driven by advanced superconducting power electronics (the latter a recent development) in the cowling of a ducted fan for greatest efficiency while doing an electronic gear reduction from the main jet engine. As these fans can be made relatively easily and reliably, maybe you stick with 4 of them for a large airliner, but cut down to two separate jet engines driving compact superconducting generators that are also used to start the main jet engines. As the LNG coolant boils off, it gets fed into the jet engines and burned. The plane will fly somewhat slower than a B747 and thus have less wing sweep, but find the right speed with an electronic gear reduction combined with a straight through jet engine and you have a much more efficient plane. There is also the advantage with engine out capability in that if a complex jet engine fails, the electrically driven ducted fans can get power from the remaining jet engine and thus balance the toque on the plane. It is also easier to have counter-rotating ducted fans to balance torque on the plane the other way. If cryogenics fail, you would still have conventional electrical power for main systems like the B747 and the jet engines could act alone without the big fans and with the superconducting generators freewheeling, thus generating a fair amount of thrust and generating more and more thrust as the plane descends. Planes have already been known to glide up to 100 miles (160 km) and this would be more of the plane slowly descends and then what altitude it levels off depending on load in the plane such as fuel load. 3. Use a battery power supplement. Say 20% (or possibly more) of TOGO power comes from batteries and the jet engines are focused more on heavy super alloys and in general designed to run near full throttle all of the time. The higher the throttle, the more efficient the jet engine runs. Also downsized as batteries help to obtain max power, the engines may end up lighter even with a more heavy duty design to better take running at higher throttle settings on average throughout flight. The battery of choice at this point in time would be LiS (lithium sulfur). The reason for this is recent reported advances make them 3x more energy dense and several times more power dense (capacity and instantaneous power output respectively) than the next most commonly used lithium chemistry while having excellent cycling capabilities, something LiS has historically been terrible at. Going for a more B787 electrical setup also increases efficiency overall. May even leave the APU off for the most part because there are sufficiently big batteries to cover what an APU would do or may even do away with the APU as the batteries fulfill the role just fine. Dumping the APU overboard will save on a lot of weight and space used in the air-frame. Then the two main engines could have something useful to do on the taxiway, which is to recharge the batteries while taxing because there is no APU and the batteries drained down some while fulfilling that role. 4. When you deal with long haul, up to 50% of a B747's takeoff mass is fuel for the trip. If you make all of these changes, while the hybrid system adds weight, the composites take it back off and probably then some along with other structural changes, and then you are using a lot less fuel. So either you fly the same routes and the plane is a lot lighter because it carries a lot less fuel or you start selecting even longer non-stop flights for the plane. 5. With all of the advancements you can have with such a hybrid system, it may even be deemed overall safer than a B747 with 4 jet engines. No A380 has ever been lost in flight so far and this may even exceed the overall safety of the A380. For example, need to do a go-around / get caught in wind-sheer and the batteries provide a very quick boost to 20% of maximum power or whatever the battery system is designed for.

Great video Petter, are you able to tell me what the music is that underscored this video?👍

I've heard Boeing engineers are once again looking into a shroudless fan. They did some testing on the concept 30-35 years ago but found that the efficiency gains available then would not have outweighed other benefits of an enclosed fan (namely, significantly reduced noise and as some degree of shielding should any vanes ever come off). The noise factor alone has me hoping that it's not a serious effort this time around. I've noticed lately that modern airliners are way quieter than they once were. I live where planes routinely pass at 2000, 5000, and 10,000 feet and where it used to be I could hear every single one screaming by, now at 10,000 ft, I almost can't hear them and 5000, they're not a bother. That wasn't the case 20-30 years ago.

A modern composite weight saving 747-400 with monster twins would be so sick.

15:20 confirms that when a jet engine is running there is no radial load on the bearings. That little ball bearing can carry the weigh and rotation of the great heavy rotor shaft for many years so long as it gets clean oil.

A good video for you to do Montour Pilot is a video about aircraft wake turbulence and how wake turbulence from one aircraft can effect another

I say it’s a very strong chance that we’ll see a 747 variant later on as there’s 777x Merry Christmas 🎅

Would the Ultrafan fit the AN-225, perchance? That would be a very small customer, even if Ukraine puts it back into production, but would be a great way to accumulate real world flight time, should the second fuselage be completed. I’m wondering if such an engine could make a larger fleet of cargo-specific heavy transport airplanes possible.

Hi Mister Mentor , thank you ,,,,, Can you put the Engine on top of the Wing please ?! that will be more earodanamic configuration ,,,,, i can see its getting there 😊🤗❤

I was on a 747 once and the number 1 engine gave out. The captain assured us we'd be fine but the flight would take an extra hour. Later the number 4 engine died. The captain said he was experienced and could still make the trip but it would take another two hours. A freak lightning strike took out the number 3 engine, but the captain assured us that we could still make it to the destination on one engine. It would just take us an extra 5 hours. I turned to the guy next to me and said, "I hope nothing happens to that last engine. We'll be up here all day."