Do the cheap vs expensive carbon wheel comparison please.

I think all these tests are actually testing the difference in wind between the first and second run.

Edited after examining data: Thank you for taking the wheels out for a ride! We're glad you chose them to go to Intelligentsia with. I am concerned about some of the test data: 1) Something seems rather off with the Strava speeds and times. The Polaris 69mm took 13:01 for the total course and 5:28 for the downhill, which is 7:33 for the uphill. The Farsports took 12:49 and 6:07, which is 6:42 for the uphill. A 51 second difference on a 2.65 mile mild uphill course does not make any sense, other than if external factors were involved. I hope you did control for as many environmental factors as possible. 2) The deeper wheels will seem harder to spin up from a stop - this is due to the larger rotational inertia, with more mass toward the outside. Luckily, bikes have gears, and one of the ways I use to spin up quickly is to drop to the small ring whenever I stop. This way, I have an easy start that doesn't tire me out, and I can switch to the big ring thereafter. 3) The Polaris can take up to a maximum of 32mm tires, though it is optimal at 28mm. If the place you're living in has rougher roads, you can afford to get more comfort (and reduce viscoelastic losses) while maintaining aerodynamics. 4) The increase in downhill speed seems greater than expected, but this could also be due to external factors. 5) For those who are looking for something shallower in the Polaris family, we will have something for you soon. Stay tuned! Once again, thank you for doing this test. I hope you will be able to improve the methodology to account for externalities going forward. -QX Founder Ascent Bikes

Loving all of the testing videos...more please!

Production has really improved Jeff! Hoping for more success and new videos.

Great vid. Do the cheap versus expensive carbon wheel comparison please. Much appreciate your thought on giving us a guide what to spend money on. Keep it on!

This video couldn't come at a better time. Getting ready for my next bike purchase and have been on the fence about upgrading the wheels from the get-go.

really good video, wasnt expecting that result.

Sure it'd be an amazing video to see cheap carbon vs expensive carbon wheels.

Fantastic videos. Always enjoy so have subscribed. Love the science and validation, makes such a difference to the usual KZfaq ranting for certain people. Thanks. Pete, Devon UK.

Wheel comparison please! Love your content. Cheers.

I am a huge fan of these tests of yours.

@Norcal Cycling I’ve been running 88mm deep carbon wheels for the past 6 seasons & they fly ! Once you get these wheels up to speed they just hold their speed very well. I bought a pair of YoeleoSports’s SAT 88 MM wheels (rim brakes) for my at the time, new Cannondale CAAD 12. I liked them so much I purchased a 2nd pair a few months afterwards. Fast forward to 2022, I just bought a 2021 Cannondale Synapse & I purchased my 3rd set of YoeleoSports’s 88MM Disc wheel set and these wheels perform well on flats and uphill as long as you have the power to get them up to speed for them to work their magic. So I’m all for deep disc wheels 🚴🏾🔥💨

Currently in the process of figuring out if I care more about aero or an all-round platform and these videos are super helpful

Please do the 50/50 test. Thanks and keep up the great videos!

yup looking forward to that cheap vs pricey comparison video too

we did and experiment with 2 different brands bontrager aeolus 3 30 mm vs 60 mm Reynolds.. and such a huge difference between climbing and flat... deep wheels for crits and shallow ones for climbing. thanks for this video it help me out as well to understand even more the huge difference so I wasn't wrong..

looking forward to the 50 vs 50 vid!!

Yes definitely do the cheap vs expensive carbon wheel comparison

Pactimo bibs for the win! Very interesting results, thanks for the video!

kudos for changing the tires over between runs! that's effort!

Yes, Is good idea let's test those 50 wheels. I am thinking of get 1 set. Keep it up. Thanks

Great review

+1 for comparision cheap vs expensive deep wheels! Grazie mille!

yup more wheel testing, its fun!

That was surprising results. Let’s see the 50 mm wheels!!

Hey Jeff! I have done experiments like these before, and there is something else you have to take into account: your weight before each run. Depending on the conditions you can sweat a great deal and wont notice bc it will evaporate... so when I do them I always bring a scale with me and make sure to weight the same b4 each run by drinking water.

Would love to see you & Hambini chat about aero wheels after you’ve done your 50mm test.

I would love to see you do a crit race with both wheels. The deep carbon wheels also look better, but I have yet to see the results to prove they are. Just like you said at the end of the video, you will cont to race the deep dish wheels anyway. I raced many years ago, the handling in the corners is better and the acceleration out of corners and sprint is just better with the smaller rims. We don't want it to be true, but it is. I dare you to do a test with standing to rolling sprints and see what your acceleration to speed is with the different wheels. You should even have someone lead you out at 28+ mph and sprint around them. The gains you saw in your video were at a constant wattage , solo. When are you solo in a crit? Correct, if you plan on trying to drop everyone after 10 laps and go solo then by all means use the Deep dish wheels. I read the brainiacs replies below and none of it has to do with riding in a tight pack and closing gaps as fast as you can and then sitting back in someone else's draft. Love your content and will continue to watch all your stuff.

great video!

Yes please do the cheap vs expensive test

Yes, most definitely want to see the 50mm comparison, I'm looking to buy the winspace 50mm or the new 2023 winspace R45.

Hey! Usually I feel like you take those things into account and do know what you are talking about and I think I remember reading that your day job did have some “sciency“ stuff in it. But in this case I feel like you didn’t take the time to think about the physics behind it. Even disregarding the aerodynamic advantage of the deeper section wheels completely, a weight difference of 300g even for a steep climb over the same distance shouldn’t make even close to the difference you saw in your test. Like orders of magnitude basically. So obviously there must have been some other differences like a changing headwind or a change in position etc.

Keep up this content... now for the important question, at what depth is the wheel the best of both worlds?

Thanks for sharing man. I have a Bianchi (928) climbing bike. I find that 35 or 38 mm wheels suit me and the bike best. The tubular 50mm (DA C50) I have does the job. they are light, but I feels like it hold the bike back a little. But with the shallow ones I feel the quickness when climbing or going on short climbs. One thing I must say. When we are on flats the 50mm does most of the job, while with the shallow one I have to put more effort to hold the speed. I will switch soon from a climbing bike to a aero bike. Looking forward to the 50mm wheels comparison. Stay safe brother.

Yes definitely! want to see expensive vs Amazon cheaper or something like that 👌 Awesome vid. I run 65/50front on my S Series 😂 wonder about those. FL rider.

I'd be interested to see how a run would go with having EACH wheel type on the bike, but swapping them from front to back. A few runs with the 35mm up front and the 69mm in the back, then a few runs with the 69 up front and the 35 in the back. Essentially the weight would be the same for each run, but the aero placement would be the factor. There was a recent Marginal Gains podcast where they interviewed the folk from Reserve Wheels, who have been working with Jumbo Visma the last few years. They were saying that the front wheel causes enough turbulence that the rear wheel doesn't need to be as deep (i.e. heavy).

Great vid!! What about the mixed depth wheelsets? Would that be the perfect balance of weight and aero?

I have 50mm ~1600g (set) Superteam wheels off amazon for $399. They have been rock solid. The only thing is I have some cassette bite on the hub. Would love to see the video because the value there is insane.

50mm test please Jeff👍 Great video as always 😊

Love these types of comparison videos! They use real world data by a real world dude.

Yes for the cheaper vs more expensive 50mms!! Not everyone has deep pockets. And what happened to that Tobu/No copy right music that was in videos months earlier? That was fantastic!

Videos are looking better and better! Are you editing them yourself or have you got a crew-member? Or did you take a skillshare course when they sponsored you? (maybe leave them a mention in the credits 😉)

I would love the cheap vs expensive comparison. I have a pair of Prime 45mm wheels; not expensive. I'm curious to see what you learn! My prediction, the cheap wheels aren't going to save a lot at high speeds, but the more expensive wheels will be lighter, so they will climb and accelerate a lot better than cheaper wheels.

Super interesting! Would love to see the difference on the 50mm - need to pick up a set soon and budget is definitely an issue

Great video! I'd like to know are "special shaped" wheels (like the Zipp 454 or Princeton 6560) actually better/faster in crosswind?

It would be nice to hear you cover your take on crosswinds with the two depths.

Do every comparison you can think of! Super useful. As a rank amateur (Cat 5), I’m not hitting the speeds where deep wheels will help a lot, and in fact I’ve done a bunch of rubber-banding when I race (accelerate hard, coast, accelerate hard, coast), so I believe the shallower profile would help me much more. Aaaaaand I generally ride in a hilly area, tipping the scales even further towards ‘shallower’.

I like how shallower carbon wheels offer aero benefits while being lighter. It seems they’re more “all rounder” than 50mm. The cheap vs expensive 50mm wheelset test is a MUST HAVE! I’m a heavier rider & have been looking to purchase 50mm b/c I wanted the added security deeper wheels offer compared to my climbing wheels.

Looking forward to the Cheap vs. expensive comparison. I own some cheaper 50mm Carbon wheels which I love (Thanks Scribe!), so I am very curious.

Looking forward to the 50mm cheap v expensive review. I have both cheap and mid-expensive 38mms and there's not much between them. The cheaper ones make perfect sense for training rides and save the goodies for race day.

I weigh 58kg. Anything over a 15mph crosswind gets a little dicey for me with 50mm wheels especially if it's gusty. I'm on 38mm now and find them way easier to control in wind. So if you're really lightweight like me, and live in a place that is commonly windy, it's probably better to get something a little shallower. 38-45mm will still reap some aero benefits over super shallow wheels.

I am excited to see your cheap vs expensive 50mm wheels comparison. I have 42 mm giant SLR-1 wheels and am planning to get a second pair of wheel sets, but I can't decide whether I should get 50mm or 60mm deep wheels.

The 50mm to 50mm comparison would be great!!

Interesting results. Were the 69mm wheels a lot slower on the outlap? Definitely want to see cheap Vs expensive 50mm carbon wheels.

Hey Jeff, can you test shallow wheels vs deep wheels when on a full on sprint? How much speed does it get you. Try 35, 50, 60

that's interesting, thanks Jeff, let's see how the cheap vs expensive perform

Best idea Jeff 50mm cheap Vs expensive.. 👊

Literally about to buy a set of wheels (likely 50mm) so this is extremely relevant.

I would like to see a test with similar weight and depth wheels with one meeting the rule of 105 and one not meeting the rule of 105. So basically a comparison of wheels based on their external width exceeding the with of the tire or allowing the tire to light bulb. Seems like there are a lot of wheels out there that still have a 24-25mm external compared to those with a 27 to 28mm external. Just have always been curious how much of a gain this actually translates too.

More comparison please 🌹

Thanks for confirming my decision to get shallow wheels. Also better for stop and go city traffic on your route. Would have been great to see an acceleration test between the two. Also, noticed u weighed the wheels w/o disc brakes attached. We agree those things are atrocious

Yes on the 50mm test

I ride a 2022 Giant TCR ADV 1 KOM. Can you do a comparison with the stock stem and handlebars vs the aero ones that you're using now? Thank you and ride safe always.🙏

You should also do a midsection vs shallow vs deep

Yes pls do the comparison

Would love to see a test between a set of Superteam carbon wheels vs expensive, name brand carbon wheels of the same depth. Because I have a set of Superteam wheels that I paid less than $300 for brand new (38mm) and they're awesome. Thousands of miles on them and they still look great and are very true.

Great video but like Wind, Position, Weight, altitude, gradient, what surface your on exactly. etc

Watched one of your recent vids and saw you are riding with Bont vapor s shoes… what do u think of them. I am looking to replace my mtb shoes and the sales person at Palo Alto bikes showed me his Bonts. I’m intrigued. Let me know if you have any thoughts on them thanks

Yes we need cheap wheelset review

Very nice bike Stan 🤣🤣

Fun video per usual .... but something seems off about the 3mph differential. That seems like an awful lot

A fun 'experiment' with a likely result, but too many variables to be definitive: Rider weight. Rider position, rider drag [at what point was your jersey unzipped on the shallow rims?] Aerodynamic Drag formula: Cd 1/2 rho V2. The rho is air density, temperature and pressure.... unlikely to have been consistent. Wind. Unlikely to have been the same velocity for both tests, and certainly does not reflect the wind velocities experienced in crit type racing. You could probably mitigate these variables by doing a daily series of back to back tests at the same time of day, alternating the test order and then deriving a probability bell curve. As I say, fun, and I enjoyed watching it. But hardly scientific. For me, I've got an aero bike and a lightweight climbing bike. Wheel choice is easy.

Yes. Do the battle of the 50mm

May you test the old alloy box section wheels vs modern 50mm carbon wheels too? Would be interesting to see how wheels technology has evolved.

Be interested in uphill sprint deltas vs flat sprint deltas. Also acceleration time from 20 to 50 at a set power. The difference might be small over 100m but its the final 100m or creating splits that count!

“You look like the sunscreen bottle” 😂 amazing.

Were tire pressure same? Excited to see cheap vs expensive

thanks, very interesting. ...how about comparing 50mm vs 35mm wheels, on the same loop like this? cheers.

Jeff I am a fan.. I would love to see you do few alviso races with 35mm wheelset and let's see if you win and your experience .. Please

How cool the wheels look is the #1 factor to consider.

The margin of error in your test must be huge. Considering how much slower the 35mm wheels where in the 2nd half, they must have been way faster on the first half. And the wight difference shouldn't explain that at all (always look at total system wight in consitent efforts like this). So pretty certain there is something off. I mean there is a reason why scientif test get repated a few times, so you end up with a result (average time of some runs) and their variance. Without that, it is impossibile to conclude if results are significant! And by signifcant I mean if the results are "real" or just "statistical error", not wether a "real" meassured difference is significant for me (as in worth it to spend money on the upgrade)

Agree. 50MM deap wheelset is the most balace choice.

You should try the shallow lighter wheels in crit racing (if you aren't already). Most of the time in a crit you are drafting and the wheel aerodynamics matter less and less. But you're slowing down and speeding up MANY times, and every gram of wheel weight matters. Try the lighter wheels.

In the comparison of the cheap carbon vs expensive is basically that the expensive carbon wheels you’re paying for the ceramic bearings the rest is pretty much the same. Small details that would be the weight, stiffness, spokes, etc.

Test it, interested to see the difference.

nice job! what if you did a roll down test on a hill. No pedaling, just time from point to point. would that give a relevant test?

Been a while since i watched your videos.. I just noticed... When did you change your bike? And why giant?.

I’d be interested in the 50mm comparison

You did the shallow ones second, how much did the temp go up? I find temp makes a huge difference especially if part of it was headwind.

What saddle are you using here? It looks like the kind i'd need.

It would be interesting to see you trest this under crit course conditions. That is, something with more turns where you can go accelerate up to speed. One argument for shallow wheels in crits is they change speed faster. So the out and back may not be a great test for crit performance.

yes please!

@jeff great idea. Could you compare elitewheels(china carbon wheels) or winspace hypers with enves or zipps nsws. They cost like 3000 a pop. Crazy prices

Yep on the 50 mm rim test.

hi Jeff. what i would be really interested to see is if you did the same test with the 69 on the front, and the 35 on the rear, and then reverse that, and see what the results are.

Would be interested to see the difference in the cheap vs expensive 50mm carbon wheels

Very interesting results! Would love to see shallow front with deep rear vs deep front and shallow rear!

Do you have same hubs on both wheelsets? If I swap wheels, I usually have to mess with the brake calipers

For average Joe, with a lot of start-stop traffic and climbs and getting up to speed I find that 45-50 mm are a golden boy. Everything above is if you do crits or long distance racing, maintaining speed on 60-80 is just plainly much easier in effort, but those things are heavy. Especially if you are like me at 180 cm and a thick 190 pounds. Wheels that will suit me at 60-80 mm will be extremely heavy. And light ones usually max out at 180 pounds total system weight.