Coincidentally I've been trying out different positions at home too. And my wife tells me which one I'm faster finishing at.

That’s probably the most important reason why Remco is so good on solo breakaways on the flat. He can hold the „Aero is life“ position pretty much for hours.

I would have liked the position in the drops in comparison, which is not quite as aerodynamic as the "Aero is Life" position, but I personally use it a lot when riding fast.

Another thought. I often use my most aero position when I'm in a situation where I'm going fast but I no longer have to put down significant power. That eliminates most of the negatives of trying to pedal hard with my hip angle closed, but gives me some of the benefits of an aero ride.

Kinesiologist here. The mass of the rider really doesn't affect your ability to ride low and aero. It comes down to your flexibility and mobility which can be limited by muscle, nerve or the joint capsule. Also wanted to mention that if your heart rate is higher in an aero position, it's because limited range of motion increases internal resistance. Using the hamstrings as an example: Every time you reach the bottom of the pedal stroke, the hamstrings will stretch and create a force that will fight knee extension. So while you're trying to push the pedal down, the hamstring stretch will resist by trying to pull the pedal back up.

Ok, this one pushed me over, I subscribed. Watched a few of your vids over the past couple months, but this one did a superior job in visualizing, test subject variation, and narration of the test. Thank you. Looking forward to the next one.

I'm just happy to see this cameo with James. Absolutely love him for all his efforts to promote all racing with Mission Crit. I missed out this year but hopefully I'll see everyone next year when it happens again. Thanks Jeff 👍🏼👌🏼🤝🏼🔥 for this cameo and information. It's all about application for different positions and how much practice people want to focus on in these positions as well. Thanks for the video!

Great video, thanks. On a side note I found it easier to stay longer in the lower aero position after I mounted shorter 165mm cranks.

Interesting video! I used to love competing in the Davis Wheel Works Putah Creek Time Trial because it allowed me to (loosely) compare changes week over week. Of course I was doing it on a tri bike so the aero position and overall geometry was much more comfortable.

Great video loved it! Something worth saying though is that you can very much train and get accustomed to positions. While Jeffs's points have a LOT of merits it also is no surprise that "the normal" position, in which they are used to riding, is the most comfortable and overall efficient one. With that being said it is also a bit of a chicken and the egg situation as this might be the standard position because they, consciously or not, adapted to the "best" position from their hours upon hours of riding beforehand. For sure an interesting topic to look at :)

great video jeff and crew! informative and keep it up

Great video! Definitely seems like the gains of the more aero position art worth the extra fatigue vs the middle position. Would love to see a video about how much of a difference upgrading tires/inner-tubes make! (I've heard it'll be way more than upgrading the wheels)

Grab the handlebar in the middle, as close to the center as it gets, arms bend a little bit like position 2 in this video, for times where you only go in a straight. Your frontal area will be more narrow and therefore you will produce less air resistance, but you don't have to crumble into the aero is life position.

Been loving the quality of the vidoes recently!! KEEP IT UP JEFF :)

these videos would have been the shit back in 2010 when I was in Highschool just started riding. Now GCN & specialized wind tunnel videos have flooded the market with free speed videos. Love a video from Jeff as always though! Keep it up.

Just to encourage you: The aero position (drops) was hard for me at first. Now it feels like the most natural and comfortable position. I can hold it a whole day without even thinking about it. On hills/mountains I get up of course.

Great editing on this one!

This is interesting. A lot of what I do is TT and triathlons so I've got really short cranks and subsequently I am super comfy in the super aero position. Not to say I am uncomfortable in the others but it's definitely something I prefer over the other 2

Would have loved to see down on the drops but with the comfortable elbow angle position

Love these videos! Along the lines of “free” speed, can you do a vid to see how kit impacts speed? Club fit vs race fit vs basic skin suit?

Your heart rate on a percentage basis was just 4.5% faster in the aero position vs the slowest/upright position, but you were 6.8% faster in the aero position. That's huge. Learning to ride in an aero position is important because after awhile you do get more comfortable (to a degree of course and there are limits) and faster.

For training purposes or for the Strava warrior, get yourself some clip-on aerobars. You can find a quality pair for under $200 and, once you get the position dialed, it's actually the MOST comfortable and most aero position. They aren't legal in road racing but most of our riding is training and clip-on aerobars help build speed and core strength. I use them on a 90 mi fairly flat loop and stay in the bars about 90-95% of the ride.

I prefer the middle upright position as it provides both comfort and a modicum of aerodynamics. If I'm not comfortable, my mileage will drop significantly, as I won't be too encouraged to get back on my bike. I'm glad I found this channel!

Great video. Keep’em coming.

I have gotten to the point where I ride the drops in a more aero position, and it actually feels more comfortable for me. Maybe it's the bike fit that makes the difference. Plus, I have a torso like a mac truck, so anything upright or close feels way worse for me, but people usually like it when I pull because I catch the wind for them like a sail on a pirate ship.

If you don’t train in the aero position of course it’s going to be inefficient, but bike fit also is really important here, and frankly, I’m shocked neither of you went numb in the twig and berries. Most riders ignore flexibility and strength training off the bike, but it’s critically important, especially so you can get low on solo rides into a headwind. Thanks where you really feel it

Great video, looks like you cats had fun making this round :)

Nice video Jeff! With love from Lagos, Nigeria 🇳🇬 ❤️

On my old steel bikes being in the most aggressive aero position to keep up is a requirement! But regular stretching has unlocked comfort in that position for me.

1. Angle your hoods inwards like remco and it makes a huge difference in regards to how sustainable that aero position is. 2. Practice is lots (Riding to the shops? Aero!) and it starts to feel more comfortable, eventually.

Yoga and practise aero is life. = free speed 😇 From my experience I got heaps of lower back pain after holding aero is life position. The pain eased after I practised keeping my spine straighter and bending at the hips rather than crunching my at the middle of my back.

The demonstrated "Aero is Life" position aka "Aero Hoods" position has still potential for improvement by tucking in the head a bitmore. I am experimenting a lot with this position in my training. I personally find it easier to sustain it for a longer period if I just lay down my hands on top of the hoods and hook in with the little fingers below the bar to have a secure connection with the bike in case of any bumps. On a side note, if the hip angle gets to small, it is maybe a question of bike fitting and/or adaptation. Anyway, intriguing topic!

From the discussions, it would be a good idea to do a follow-up with using the drops and then comparing that to the hoods positions. Then there's the forearm rests which are yet another option, but in general aren't ideal for technical courses.

I personally have this reflex to try and get down lower when facing the wind or any other situation where I tend to think that the aero gains outweigh the lost Watts and higher heart rate.

Quality content and a really fun idea for a video!

Unless I missed it, it would have been nice to see the speed comparison. I like the aero position and decrease of wind noise are the ears.

Another interesting video/test would be a bike with non-aero wheels riding in the "cafe cowboy" position, then aero position (skip the middle position since we know it's not too far off the full aero position).....and then repeat the two positions with aero wheels. That'll give a pretty full spectrum between non-aero wheels/non-aero position to aero wheels and full aero position in one test/same day conditions.

aero is life :D this year I focused on that position and got used to it so much that it became my normal riding position where I can produce the most power as well :D

I use the drop down bar and aero position when riding against strong wind.

Amazing video as always :D

Moved out of the bay 7 years ago. Riding in Alviso is the about the only thing I really miss, hehe.

Love to see the new cervelo soloist tested against a tcr or propel or tarmac if you could get your hands on one !

Fun to watch and I know it’s not scientific. But to be fair, the stack heights were not changed in the three position scenarios. For a beginner it is likely that the stack height is much higher. As your skills evolve your stack height likely decreases. Not sure it would change the results at all but it may effect the comfort of the beginner position. Love the videos!

Keep having James on. I like that we are having some representation for us thicc boys out there.

Bro what are the drops for?

A mate of mine dropped 8.5k on a giant propel and was always advocating slamming his stem. Well he did, and automatically regretted it. His posture was terrible and like these gents, closed off his hip angle. The only way he could go fast and get massive power down was to stand out of the saddle and get into the drops. He spent most rides getting in and out of the saddle. He ended up buying a new fork and went back to the original height for an extra 1.5k. Expensive lesson indeed

Thought Jeff was setting up to do a ride in socks and flip flops then do a ride in bike shoes.

The one comparison i would add has to do with the positionning of the elbow, i see many riders even some experienced ones, with a bent at the elbow but a bent with the insides of said bends facing each other and the exterior of the arms expanding to the sides when in fact most efficient way is for the inside of your elbow to face upward and all of it not taking wind outwards as well (which implies a slight rotation at the elbows as well and has the extra potential soletimes to also untighten a little more room for your lungs as well). So, i'd love to compare a slightly more upward position with proper positioning of the elbows, to a more downward one but with elbows 'former downhill racer' style. Just to see if they balance out or not :)

I think the effect is even more multiplied when facing a headwind. Always practice aero positions

Love the new graphics!!

For northern folk, use z1/2 base training indoor sessions during winter to cultivate being more comfortable in the drops/aero position. My first year i hated being in the drops because it was so uncomfortable. It is not natural to be able to generate power from that position, it must be trained. Now, years later I often prefer being in the drops for long sections even if I can generate more power from an upright position. Just start with forcing yourself in the drops for 5 minutes, then 10, 15 etc... and before you know it you'll be able to do a whole TT in the aero position.

wish I had seen this video at the beginning, nobody corrected my posture until a few days ago, I always ride around Cafe Cowboy for almost 3 years, I'm just passing to the Aero is Life and wow every day I do PRs without much effort

"Different positions with the boys" 😅😅😅

Jeff - my forearms are killing me! Grabs triceps 😆

I have a fairly long and steady straight road close to me where I experimented with this sometime ago. Instead of riding a long distance in a single position, I switched every minute between my normal position, riding on the hoods with arms slightly bent and then dropping down on to the drops fror a minute and then into an aero position als the time trying to maintain a steady cadence and power. When i looked at the starva dat after the ride, the change from hoods to drops was clearly visible by a speed increase of around 2km/h from 30 to 32km/h which is about 6% improvement. Changing from the drops to the aero did not give me any meaningful additional speed but a decrease in riding comfort. So my numbers kind of confirm what you were reporting. I tried briefly a similar test at higher speed of ~40km/h and again observed a marked increase of speed when going into the drops but because i am 68 years of age, the 40km/h was a bit too fast for me to maintain for a conclusive trial but by feel and the few data I have the difference was about 6.5%. At lower speeds of 15km/h the difference is becoming marginal. Riding in the full aero position is just not my thing as I cannot breath as freely as when riding on the hoods and riding in the drops is also a bit more restrictive but then I am not racing but doing enjoyable endurance rides of 100 to 160km with average speeds of 20km/h.

my lower back. ouch. i can't lean forward for very long, so i prefer a more upright riding position. It would be nice to see more videos about stem options. That said, a pretty cool video. Thanks! 💙💜🤎

I'm curious on James and Jeff's (possibly Edward Snowden) thoughts on race bike geometry in 2022. It seems like bikes are getting lower stacks, but the bike industry compensates with compact bars. Why not have a taller headtube with a longer reach bar with a deeper bend. Then you can have a nice low drop position, a longer "aero is life" position, and a nice tall handlebar top for climbing.

This channel is so fun

I personally prefer and find the aerotuck comfortable for most part and only lift up when I want to get a bit of a stretch on my shoulders and back. Really don't find it uncomfortable.

You think Jeff is skinny, I'm 130lbs. That upright position makes me a sail and really slows me down. I try to ride in the aggressive position but it is definitely tough to sustain the power in that position. I'm usually in the middle also.

I wonder if the different positions need different seat, handle bar positions to maximise the power output. I.e. in aero you may need to stretch the gap between seat and bars.

Great content! I'd be curious what the benefits are of riding in that middle position that you thought was a good mix of aero/power generated vs riding in the drops. I've found that I can ride in them for extended periods being a bit less comfortable, but always wondered if it was worth the aero savings.

I love your channel and shared my friends. It will be awesome if you guys can do a video on different bike impacts speed. I am a casual riding, riding a giant revolt advanced gravel bike and use 2 set of wheels for road and light trail. I really want to know how much time you gain if you use same set of wheels/tires but why different bikes (gravel vs endurance vs race vs aero).

i've got the bombas cycling socks (present from my wife), they look good and feel good! would def get more. really enjoy this series of vids, always fun to compare in real world

I’ve found that with the right fit and good reach on the bike I can keep the hip angle pretty open for power delivery and stay real low in aero position off the front. But I’m also not a sprinter. Haha. So I think the aero position is always the answer unless you’re in the draft. Also the more aero you are ON the front the less you’re offering the dudes behind you, no?

What if you were not using same power, but same HR? More power in more upright position. Could it compensate for aero?

I'm more focused on going further and staying on my bike longer than on going faster, but this still applies. Being more _aerodynamically efficient_ (a coke machine is _aerodynamic_ or "aero") means I cover the same distance with less energy, which in turn means I can stay in the saddle longer because my energy lasts longer. I might achieve a marginally higher average speed, but that's not my actual goal.

Bombas socks are the best. Love them.

If you want to try to spend more time "slammed" you must also look at saddle position, bar width, and perhaps whether you're carrying too much weight in the gut to breathe effectively to make the change worthwhile. It's best to work on all of these things incrementally with all caveats in mind so that your long term training goals can also be adjusted as needed. And if you're doing all of these expecting to be fresh for the sprint...make sure that's what you're actually achieving.

I sometimes go full Remco position with my head almost on the bars. It's crazy fast but so difficult to hold.

Aero position encourages faster cadence & you're closer to the hoods thus causing a faster finishing time

Hi there, I trained a lot in the aero is life position and the speed gains don't quite align with my experience. Is your source file available somewhere?

I was surprised by the limited gains achieved in the "aero is life" position. In "aero is life", the top 3 things are (1) flat forearms and lowered torso; (2) rounded shoulders; and (3) "turtled" head position. Jeff seemed to achieve all 3. James seemed to struggle with his head position.

as someone who doesn't even race, i've spent too many hours torturing myself in that low aero position. always worth it for the cool points, the speed aspect is almost a secondary bonus haha

These are most entertaining videos :)

what is more better, drop bars or top of the hoods bent (position C), i feel comfy on dropbars if my saddle is forward and i feel comfy on top of the hoods (bent) if my saddle is backward

Aero Helmet related. There's times where I go full aero position with my head down, (I have the Evade helmet) the back of the helmet is basically upright and is sticking out like a sore thumb because it's long. I wonder how much can that affect my speed or watts.

Riding a single speed/ fix on a windy day gives you all the feedback you need on this topic!

It depends on if you have a head wind or a tall wind!!

I like the extreme aero position because my legs rebounding off my belly sends extra power to the pedals 🐖

This makes me think of another good episode that you could make. "How much does a hydration pack slow you down?" Run the test up something like a steep-ish climb with 1000 feet elevation gain. Also run it on a varied course at ~250 watts.

How much difference does a nice aero bike and wheels make over a middle of the road bike when in the draft on a group ride.

Awesome video Jeff. What bar width do you run? And is there any flare at the drops? Cheers :-)

I don't have a problem riding with bent arms, but I also don't slam a stem or keep the bars so close, so I don't run the saddle extremely high, I think more than 10 mm of drop for someone under 5'10 is a bit excessive for non-track or time trialing. It's much easier to maintain bent arm, aero position with your bars slightly higher and the saddle drop a little lower, along with a slightly longer reach, then you can move between the hoods and drops more, and still be plenty aero, but generate some power too, The modern racer is way to bunched up and far too stretched downwards, instead of outwards. I think classic racing positions deserve a good look nowadays to comabt excessive saddle/bar drop. You're running deep drops, they're best when you don't have excessive saddle height so that you can get low and sit up, and leverage the benefits of each positions with more comfort, speed, and power

Could compare Hunt Aero 50mm carbon fiber wheels against the Scribe wide + 50D carbon fiber wheels ?

When you talk about speed and aero of upright on the flat road. Recumbent: Just smiling.

Would have been interesting if you guys raised the handlebars for the upright position to avoid the elbow lockout. I'm guessing that position would have been more comfortable had that been done.

Nice music. Interesting video.

Next video….which bike fit method produces more power and speed !?

Hello! :) I was just wondering why you both didn't use the drop bars for a more aerodynamic position...?? Sorry, just curious..

Hey Jeff can u make a test spd vs spd sl? Many people now wanna ride their road bikes in spd shoes becuase it is easier to walk. But are they good for long road rides? Do u loose any power? I think they are as good as spd sl but would love your opinion

What bike size do you ride and how tall are you? Im looking to buy a new bike and by my experience with my bike id go a size down but not really sure . Thanks

Basically what position you trains in, is what your body adapts too. So most of use need to train more aero! Take Dan Brigham's hour round he only but 350w out by being as aero as possible whilst Bradley Wiggins was 100w+ greater for far less distance 😁

The aero position is comfortable for me and my power is fine but I can't see far enough in front of me. I have to lookup frequently and it strains my neck.

Man I have a question how did you fit a zipp sprint sl stem on an od2 (giant ) fork

Nice end!

Need to compare drops to sphinx position.

"For free" my whole body aches watching the aero position...

Would be interesting to see what a race suit or speed suit does. I assume if you're doing crits you're always in a race suit or speed suit

I'm curious what whould happen if both of you had the same bpm in the aero and bro positions... so basically you were able to generate a slightly more watts in relaxed position.