Are Performance Shooters Using Cheater Ammo?

No video

Are Performance Shooters Using Cheater Ammo?

Рет қаралды 6,604

10 ай бұрын

Want to train with us? Head over to SpecTrain.us to check out our training schedule, or contact us about hosting a class in your area!

Пікірлер: 49

@vmanshooting 10 ай бұрын

Great demos. I wish I had 1.5s bill drill on demand in me

@redsdot 10 ай бұрын

I'm gonna point people to this video the next time I get somebody complaining I am using "gamer ammo". Thanks!

@nunyabusiness2127 10 ай бұрын

Much respect on your stance. Watching the slo-mo...your head never moves. Very solid. Solid explanation on why power factors exist. We have power factors in IDPA as well. Glad they are part of the rules.

@pcs3576 10 ай бұрын

Love the transparency and message....as always solid content.

@PreparedCitizen1996 5 ай бұрын

My order of 147 grain jello shots arrived yesterday im no competition shooter just looking for something a lil less snappy

@LionPrideBJJ 10 ай бұрын

Very good demonstration. 👍🏽

@brennanbrennecke3323 10 ай бұрын

Great video!

@z289t6 2 ай бұрын

I don’t think cheater ammunition is a problem with everyone shooting 9 mm. I’m just getting back into IDPA after almost 20 years. Used to see cheater ammo in stock service revolver, since revolvers can eat anything. Whenever a popper showed up, there were guys with powder puff loads that could not put them down. To meet 125 power factor in 38 special, you are generally in the +P range in the reloading data books. Also seen in 45acp loads in CDP that were supposed to be 165pf.

@hopewilliams6705 6 ай бұрын

I completely understand what you're saying.... But I primarily train with 124 NATO loads and I was at a class recently and one of the instructors had an identical handgun and he was shooting 147 gr jello shots or chubbys and I won't lie it had a noticeable difference in recoil impulse. I'm not saying that he was better because of it but I wasn't expecting the difference.

@SpecTrain 6 ай бұрын

I don't think anybody would argue that. Just like I would argue that the .40 I demoed with in this video has significantly more felt recoil than any 124 gr 9mm. But saying that it feels different is a lot different than saying that there is a measurable performance difference which is the whole point of discussion here.

@hopewilliams6705 6 ай бұрын

@@SpecTrain absolutely there isn't any magic bullet or accessory to make you a high level high performing shooter

@rodralig 9 ай бұрын

Saying "cheater ammo" is usually an excuse for folks with mediocre and below performance... Have these performance shooters switch to standard ammo, and they will still significantly outperform... Even had an instructor from a well-known school out of Nevada "rant" on being beaten in an action shooting match, saying "if I had lower recoil ammo..." Obviously to those that have been there and done that, splits is but a small percentage of time gains in action shooting (there are transitions and movements, stage planning, etc.). That said, for the prior years, I actually shoot factory because I have no time to reload. I shoot S&B 115gr FMJ which is usually the cheapest I find... Only recently did I find out that it clocks at 143 PF. ... And while I shoot a Glock 17 with stock internals (even trigger) - I do not use it as an excuse. Those who beat me (I am mid-B to A in field courses) are simply better in stage planning, movement, transitions and execution.

@Sometimes_Always 10 ай бұрын

Excuses have been common since forever. It's usually the tactical crowd trying to find a reason when compared against a competition shooter. I help run the local matches and you see the surprise with the mil and LE crowd. All it takes is one competition to see the difference in skill. Some take a hit to their ego and overcome it. Others can't imagine a 160 lbs S/W engineer having better gun-handling skills than them and make an excuse. It's whatevers. Life is too short to try and convince them of anything. Let them be slow (or fast in their mind). There are better things to do.

@paddypibblet846 10 ай бұрын

The highest level guys do tend to use "cheater ammo", that being said they can still shoot very well without it. Proof? JJ Recaza winning Carry Optics with a stock gun and stock factory ammo. I am more of a "tacticool" oriented shooter who dabbles in competition once in a while, and I was planning on changing my typical 115g range ammo for some lighter pressure 150g competition ammo a few days before my match. I decided to get a feel for it the day before the comp, and though it was definitely softer recoiling, it threw off my recoil control/timing. I stuck to my factory ammo and was able to get an M class rating in the classifier match. TLDR: get a feel and accustomed to the ammo you're using.

@SpecTrain 10 ай бұрын

By 150gr I assume you mean syntech? Funny enough that stuff is pretty hot. Usually chrono's around 145 pf lol.

@paddypibblet846 10 ай бұрын

@@SpecTrain No, some loads my buddy makes and I bought a good amount off him specifically for the comp. Are the synthetic ones the red ones I see in the shelves?

@sharper9009 10 ай бұрын

So even after he proved to you that “cheater ammo” isn’t a thing you still think that’s what the top guys do. 🤦‍♂️

@paddypibblet846 10 ай бұрын

@@sharper9009 Do you compete in USPSA or IPSC? Obviously not. Because if you did you'd know reloading is a big part of the sport. And guess what partner? People don't reload for maximum recoil, they reload for the less amount of felt recoil, thus "cheater ammo" because those reloads tend to be nothing like your average duty/street round. And in some cases, some guns won't even run with anything BUT a specific type of cheater ammo because they've been tuned for that low pressure round. And besides, I did agree with his main point that it's not that important and "cheater ammo" as an excuse is overrated. If you could read, I even gave an example agreeing with him. I think the issue here stems from you not knowing what quotation marks mean or indicate. 🤦🏻

@mynameisjeff6988 3 ай бұрын

@@sharper9009 Cheater ammo does exist, the problem is that you need to be upper mid level at least to be able to take advantage of it. Every single top level guy will reload his own ammo for a reason. They make the softest shooting ammo that will reliably cycle the gun. When you get into open guns with massive compensators, they want hotter ammo that activates the comps. There is a reason that Jello shot and Federal syntech stuff is sought after, Theyre basically pet loads that will meet power factor but recoil much less than anything else.

@musicman1eanda 10 ай бұрын

I get groups like that with reactive shooting, but once I try shooting predictively, a bunch of my rounds go high C and even up into the head box. Even happens when I put a white paster to laser focus on. Been meaning to try and get a lesson with GM Samuel Callahan for help because I've been struggling for over a year.

@brennanbrennecke3323 10 ай бұрын

Try taping your dot

@musicman1eanda 10 ай бұрын

@brennanbrennecke3323 It's taped.

@EzraLopezUSPSA 10 ай бұрын

@@musicman1eandaif it’s not a vision issue it’s surely grip related no?

@musicman1eanda 10 ай бұрын

@EzraLopezUSPSA Yeah, I just don't know what else I can do to fix it. I focus on gripping as tightly as I can with my support hand but if my hands are even slightly sweaty... in come the high Charlies and the gun moving in my hand. I get many more alphas if I use grip chalk.

@majormayo2962 10 ай бұрын

@@musicman1eanda Make sure you are laser focused on the spot and then just use the chalk. Wet hands will ruin anyone's grip for the most part.

@rolotomase1440 9 ай бұрын

Is Blazer "cheater ammo" LOL? It's 115 is 131 PF and 124's are 135 pf. People will make all kinds of excuses.

@dsxz 2 ай бұрын

its the softest factory shit you can buy by far....idk where you got 131 but I've chrono'd 115 blazer out of several 5" guns and its well under under 1100 fps

@rolotomase1440 2 ай бұрын

@@dsxz Interesting. CCI says it's 1145 fps.

@musicman1eanda 10 ай бұрын

Do you use grip enhancers? If yes, when? Training? Only matches?

@SpecTrain 10 ай бұрын

I do, on an as-needed basis. Primarily in hot conditions when the hands are sweaty.

@wintersoldier4335 4 ай бұрын

....but still like he said its still the shooter...it justs make a good shooter better easier splits etc....in a self defense situation, still up to you

@CA.0verview 10 ай бұрын

Oooo you mean ig instructors , Lucas brought this up a couple months back haven’t heard from this topic in a while

@Espi68One 10 ай бұрын

Pre Covid, I exclusively shot, all Aluminum/Steel Cased 9mm, I save my handloads for the range, I did not want to be accused of "gaming" although, I have only attended 3 "real" competition IDPA matching in PHX, AZ, (pre-covid), I have not returned to IPDA at all. only make time for the range about every 4 months. I do plan to return next year. I will still be shooting Aluminum/Steel Cased 9mm, if I can find, I still have about 2K rounds in reserve.

@user60521123 10 ай бұрын

I actually considered using weak reloads to qualify for my CCW permission slip, but I worked so hard to achieve accuracy with SD ammo. I also found that pistol ammo is usually more consistent with hotter loads.

@paddypibblet846 10 ай бұрын

Lol bro.... those tests are so damn easy, even people who have shot once or twice in their life pass those tests and you're thinking about cheesing it?!?! 😂

@kevinjohnson3925 10 ай бұрын

Practice with the recoil of your defense load.

@user60521123 10 ай бұрын

@@paddypibblet846 I started shooting when I was 7 and I had to work on passing it. I must be seriously lacking natural shooting talent. 😂

@user60521123 10 ай бұрын

@@kevinjohnson3925 I do. I have the same bullets and load as my carry ammo.

@paddypibblet846 10 ай бұрын

@@user60521123 Try taking a class from a good instructor in your area. I really recommend instructors who shoot in USPSA or IPSC. There's this belief among shooters that if they've been doing it for a long time, they'll naturally get good, but it doesn't work that way. Once someone squares away your technique you'll improve ten fold overnight. I also started shooting around 7 but didn't really become good until my late 20s when I started actually looking at the techniques and skills that higher level shooters abide by.

@genin69 10 ай бұрын

What people who complain dont realize is that of you load ammo with less powder ur not gonna shoot faster and ur gun will most likelt not even cycle and youll get failure to eject aa there isnt enough explosive power to cycle the slide. The slide likes to ride hard so that everyhting works for the semi auto functioning. Loading at power factor of 132 when ur shooting a lot saves the gun. Power factor 125 is very weak. You actually feel the slide going slower so ur recoil impulse is lower and u cant get fast splits. I prefer my power factor around the 133 mark. Its faster and more accurate when ur doing doubles. Bullet drop is a thing..also I only shoot 147gr. It not super sonic and softer meaning ur ears will thank you

@SpecTrain 10 ай бұрын

Interesting points. To be fair, you can shoot a .22, or a .380, or a 125 pf 9mm plenty fast it just needs to be sprung properly. What is absolutely true is that if you try to run super light stuff in a stock gun you will run into issues.

@paddypibblet846 10 ай бұрын

Competitions shooters use guns with lighter springs to account for the lighter ammo.

@lovetopew9054 8 ай бұрын

Another point to note regarding reloading, is that some competition guns will not even feed factory ammo, or they won't feed reliably. Sure the PF floor is a big reason to reload, but being able to select a bullet profile and OAL that work with your pistol are just as important.