Mr. Baker, this is a top-notch video. As a survivor myself in a self-defense shooting while on duty (I'm now retired), I can tell folks that in such a high-stress, chaotic event you won't be able to "focus" on anything but your attacker, and both eyes WILL be open. This is our natural response to a deadly threat, so you're probably not going to focus on your sights. However, if you are able to raise the pistol to eye level, you can "reference" your front sight, like you said. You're not "looking" at them, but you can see a hazy image of them. The instant that image flashes on the target, pull the trigger. This is called "Flash Sight Picture" shooting, and I can attest to the fact that it works. But again, you are in fact correct in that a large percentage of private citizen self-defense shooting do involve only "point" shooting. Job well done sir, keep the vids coming to us.

What irks me is the people on either end, who ONLY say that you should practice point shooting or ONLY practice one specific shooting posture with full arm extension and perfect sight picture. It's like fighters that ONLY say you should practice a right hook. Why would that ever make sense?

"That's how my gun turns into our gun" love that

As a range safety officer....I can tell ya people don't use their sights.....they shoot the floors, ceilings, walls, and target hangers.

There's a lot to be said for muscle memory. Practice folks. Practice.

"Blessed are those who, in the face of death, think only about the front sight." - Col. Jeff Cooper

The 20 yards question reminds me of the tragedy that took place in a church a few years ago. A man started shooting guests, including a volunteer guard who was too slow on his draw, when another volunteer guard took one well aimed shot from at least 20 yards and took down the active shooter. He was an older fellow who had many years of practice on his resume and used those sights in a crowded room full of chaos to his advantage.

11:00 nailed it... Thats why I train draw and pointing with eyes closed until I open my eyes and have a acceptable sight picture.

I love how you adress any counter arguments you're likely to hear in every video, and you never just dismiss others experiences. Incredibly in depth, analytical, unbiased, professional advice.

The use of an airsoft for point shooting training is a valuable starter skill and for skills retention training. Can be done in any home or yard setting but still observe muzzle safety. Thanks for the great videos, I went out and practiced with my 9 yesterday, it was indeed valuable and rewarding.

Love the “paper planes” reference at the end, well done sir!

This experimenting with distance vs aiming technique is fundamental gun study. This series is valuable info. Keep it up.

It goes without saying that any shooting, whether aimed or instinctive, should be practiced. When shooting at a range where they allowed it, I practiced point shooting out to around 4 yards and it is a skill that can be rapidly developed with consistent hits to the "A" zone. Under stress, your eyes will do what they want - and at close range, they are more likely to focus on the threat. Point shooting is absolutely a good skill to develop.

If you are present at a “mass shooting” in a public place, you may have an opportunity to put shots on the bad guy from cover at a distance. Your defensive handgun skills should cover the distance from 1 yard to 25 or more yards. At longer distances you might have the opportunity to use cover and take your time shooting. If you do not have cover, running like heck to get to cover is a better option than trying to make a long shot from out in the open. All shooting scenarios are “rare” in our country, You may not have to change a flat tire very often, but if you are going to drive a car, it is a skill you should have.

Almost everything you discussed never entered my mind. I guess I’m never too old to learn.

Great video. 2 points: I think a draw from concealment under stress or while moving would have favored point shooting more, especially at close ranges. With an ideal grip at low ready, it doesn't take any extra effort to acquire the sights. But in a situation where your draw might not be ideal and you are acquiring a sight picture with the gun canted or twisted, or you are running so that the sights are bouncing; finding your sights might require significantly more time. Point shooting can gain an advantage in these scenarios in my opinion. Second point: serendipitously, Jerry Miculek just did a point shooting video on his channel. His was closer to the old-school hip-fire technique. As you mentioned, it can be very fast and relatively accurate, which he demonstrated. I highly recommend that people go watch that video. Point shooting does require practice to master. I've found that with practice I can get a hit on a 3 inch ring at 3 yards from concealment in about 1.2 s. That addresses a large percentage (supposedly) of self defense encounters.

Impressive how good and detailed are your videos. Great as always.

Pretty interesting video. Being french, most of us shooters don't own handguns for defense but for sport, officially at least. The gun culture here is therefore centered around accuracy, and even those who train for sd/hd pretty much always go for slow, accurate shooting. Don't get me wrong, it's good to do that, but not if you _only_ do that. Pointshooting encourages you to shoot fast, makes you worry less about the muzzle flip and allows "shy" shooters to fire quick followed up shots that they'd only do with 22lr pistols (if ever). Practicing that way at short ranges makes people aware of their capacity to use a pistol in x y caliber in a real situation. Some 45acp slow shooters might see they're all over the place when trying to fire their gun quickly. Others might realize that with their current level, they'd better switch to 32acp/9mm short rather than shoot a polymer 9mm they can barely handle. It's also the occasion to check your ability to shoot one handed- chances are, you won't be able to have your optimized two handed shooting position in a real shooting. All this made me personnally a bit more humble and pushed me to switch to smaller caliber pistols that i shoot way faster and more accurately when pointshooting. Smaller holes, but more of 'em in better places. I hope this can help anyone.

In order to shoot at 3 to 5 yards without sights you must first learn how to shoot out to 10 yards with sights and do that accurately and for a long time in order to build muscle memory. It is muscle memory that gets you to shout without using the sights. Also what aids instinctive shooting is the correct presentation of the gun when using the sights. The gun must be extended in front of your eyes and driven forward to the target at which time the sights will be perfectly aligned, this is the muscle memory you must build up. Dry Fire Practice works best. First learn how to use the sights adiqualy. Point shooting comes after a lot of practice. Lastly you can point shoot better with some guns better than others. Therefore choosing the right gun for personal protection is important.

Speed is fine, accuracy is final.

You are exactly on "point" about practicing sighted fire and how that relates to point shooting. I put this to the test many times in our shooting league, good fundamentals learned through sighted fire lead to good point shooting ability.

"Point shooting", or whatever you call it, is simply muscle memory acquired through thousands of iterations. The person who puts in the work gets the hits. Done.

There's a lot of options for this kind of content on this platform these days. I must say I greatly appreciated your thorough, objective, and scientific approach to the consideration of these topics, sir! Well done! I eagerly look forward to each one of your videos. Keep up the great work! 💪🏾

Practice both point shooting, and sight shooting.

"My gun, becomes our gun" *Stalin cries tears of pride*

The point shoot is most beneficial on a one handed draw, from holster, at ranges and time limits not possible for sighted fire. Lock the firing hand elbow against upper hip, level the forearm, and fire until room to aim is available. Very difficult to see draw or disarm due to high cross guard of other arm and blading.

Another thing to add is that point shooting can be practiced in your house with a laser bullet. Doesn’t always have to be live fire and you can see where you would have hit this way. It’s a great investment for dry fire

Since most gun fights are 7 yards are closer and on average last less than 5 seconds, the front sight, sight picture and good trigger manipulation are more important than sight alignment.

I’m convinced that people that give thumbs down just go and thumbs down every single video out there. Great video!

Great, now I have that song stuck in my head (video ending)...

Funny enough, I was having a conversation on this topic with one of my good friends yesterday. Thanks for another great video, Chris!

I've taught a number of people to use a finger indexed on the slide to "point" the gun at the target and then get a sight picture. I found it helped them get on target faster and kept their finger off the trigger.

Sage Dynamics has an interesting video on this concept where the gets a near perfect score on the FBI qualification using a handgun that has no sights.

Love this channel!

Mr. Baker, I like how you tell both said of the story, and by doing that you tend to keep both the pros and the cons at bay.

My complements to whoever spent the time editing the last few seconds of this video. Actually made me laugh out loud. I really enjoy this channel. Keep up the good work.

Good info. I was always taught (four seperate academies) that at close range, 5 yards or so, just push your front sight to center of mass and pull the trigger and in real close quarters to keep the gun in tight at your hip (gunfighter style) for weapons retention reasons and instinct shoot. Anything further than 5 yards or so use both sights if time permits because you are liable for where every bullet lands. Don't shoot if your backstop is not clear unless lives will be lost if you don't shoot. Not that you will have time for all of that thinking, which is why practicing each style at the appropriate range is crucial so you just do it naturally. Some academies teach front sight only, period. But that is no good at longer distances. Maybe that is why a lot of cops are bad shots.

Despite being British I've been shooting air rifles, shotguns, air pistols, recurve bows, compound bows and crossbows since I was about 12 and I honestly never use the sights and I'm pretty accurate. I just point/instinctive shoot and I've gotten good at it over the years. I think in self defence most people will point shoot, but not all.

One thing that I don’t see people train much is moving and shooting, also shooting while moving. Most indoor ranges suck for this, so you may need to find another method or place to do this. Airsoft with a training partner is great for this. The last thing you want to do is stand still in front of an armed threat and try to out draw them. The reason is because actions are faster than reactions. So the idea is to shift yourself from the initial reactor (of a perceived threat) to the threat becoming the reactor (to you moving while counter attacking). Getting off axis also makes you harder to shoot/stab/attack etc. This is meant to buy you time to react and defend with more chance of success. You’ll see this with boxers and MMA all the time (until they get tired, which is why endurance is key to their success).

I’ve done multiple days of force on force training before and after taking a multi day course on reflexive shooting using the teachings of people like Bob Taubert. In the force on force there were absolutely times I needed to see my sights because without them I kept missing. Besides the legal implications of those missed shots, missing those shots gave my opponent more time to land a fatal shot on myself. In the reflexive shooting course the instructors ended the second and final day by having us do a walk back drill starting at contact distance. At 7 yd even after two days of nonstop reflexive shooting (we removed or covered our pistol sights) most of the class agreed we were at a point where the accuracy gained by using our sights made up for the additional time taken to fully acquire the sights. At 10 yd everyone wanted to be using their sights. The final lesson was that we were not to walk away from the course thinking sights weren’t needed or important. The point of the course was there are times when a practiced index with the pistol was an acceptable form of sight picture, but that’s not true at all times.

Hey Chris! Great video as always. When I was a LEO, part of our firearms qual required basically shooting from the hip from a holster at 2ft. Obviously sights weren’t used! Your shot placement was solid. Thoracic V. Deadly.

Well I got this late even though I’m subscribed. There it is Chris, practice. Practice sighted fire at distance and that will help you with unsighted fire close in. You can get good at point shooting until you get good at sighted fire. You can’t get good at point shooting until your draw is where it needs to be and you can only get there with sighted fire. It’s still all about the draw. Practice your draw. Practice your draw. Your body will do as you trained it to do under stress, You will not have much time as any to think. Your body will do as you train it to do. The one place where we differ Chris is that I don’t fully extend until right around 15 yards and better. I also don’t raise the gun to the level of my eyes to use the sights and less I intend on using the sights. I literally shoot from a centered retention position (?); not above the chest and half way extended. Anyway, good job. It’s whatever really works for you. I don’t need the optics, I rarely use the sights and I get the same kind of hits from 7 to 15.

Moving under stress 2 eyes open focusing on the moving agressor at less than 15 yards one hand firing the fastest possible with no finger discipline is why i choosed a gun with a great natural point of aim, low recoil calibre and... no red dot for now. Thanks for those great video.

Finally another upload, I love watching your videos because they're packed with a ton of knowledge.

Some guy named JOE said shoot your double barrel 2 times in the air !!!

The point at about the 11:00 mark about "getting fast with sights basically makes you a point-shooting master"... Yes. 100%. I've shot and carried one pistol for the last 6 years. Just in the last 12 months, I've put about 2,000 rounds through it. I can close my eyes and press the gun out, and if the sights aren't lined up, they'd damn close.

Love the ending, really well done.

Great point about the false dichotomy. I like to train for an "acceptable" sight picture. What exactly that looks like depends on distance, target size, urgency, etc. We run a lot of drills with varying target sizes and distances to be sure we drill that difference into our brains.

*clicks video* *skips to very end to see the last thing Chris says* *clicks like* *goes back to the beginning to watch full video*

I swapped my grips out for a pair of CTC laser...perfect when you don’t have the luxury of time to line up your sights. The bad guy may question your aim but rarely the red dot on his chest.

Great addition to your video collection! Thanks Chris

Chris you are cracking me up....intro fantastic

We did a similar drill with the sights taped up in a Langdon class awhile back, I think we did the drill at ten yards. It did reinforce my belief that trigger control is vastly more important than sight alignment in pistol shooting. Mr. Langdon was very adamant that he wasn't teaching "point shooting" but more a trust in solid fundamentals in the event your sights become occluded in any particular situation.

It all boils down to I can't walk around everywhere with my AR slung around me.

Most defensive handgun use will be well under 5 yards, and the majority 3 yards or less. So "point shooting" works well for most defensive work. You also gain the benefit of keeping both eyes open and having batter awareness. If the assailant is more than 5 yards away you have to consider that taking cover or retreating might be a better tactic than shooting anyway (unless he's charging you). This is a good video and confirms most of what I have trained for.

Good stuff. One thing to note, we can’t draw from holster in 90% of ranges. Place your gun at the table to “simulate” not being at the ready or holstered. Also try to incorporate simulated malfunctions. Put in one bullet, or a snap cap, and so on. Happy shooting!

Amazing info, the myth of "beyond a few feet isn't justifiable" is so false, if you are in a deadly situation no one will look the other way if you put someone down at 25 yards who is shooting at you or someone.

Well done! If we “score” a hit on an ear while practicing, we need to stop backing up and move forward. An ear hit is a dead bystander.

Every time you make these practical defense discussion videos I'm always impressed. Very informative, you have a humble attitude, and it feels like you're taking in a wide variety of sources to discuss the topic. Really enjoy these and I learn a lot.

Good info

Fun to see the PX4 out in the wild

Interesting video. It made me be even happier that my Sig P365 has the Sig trigger guard laser that comes on as soon as I grip the weapon. Unless I use poor trigger management, at close to medium distances, I'll be hitting at precisely what I aim at without using the sights, or even without fully raising the pistol.

Look forward to all your videos.

I've not been in a SD shooting with a human but I was charged by a wild boar 4 years ago. I always have a 10mm Glock on me while hiking. First of I can say that everything goes extremely fast. Crackling bushes, big brown beast of a pig charging, brain realises and snaps to training, draw gun point the gun and shoot. I did not get hurt. I didn't actively look at my sights like when you shoot a handgun for the first time but I picked them up and somewhat alined them with the pig. Great video guys! Some of the best on KZfaq

where's the one-handed shooting? at close range, that likely to be how you'd be shooting

Step one: Find the end that goes bang, and point that at the bad guy.

Chris, you make some very practical, thoughtful videos. Thanks for that, and please keep them coming.

I'm going to say something that might upset people, but true nonetheless - a lot of this depends on your training and level of competence. As a former service member myself I have seen a pretty wide gamut of what people are capable of, and also what they take from instruction. It's true for a lot of people their sites might not be useful because their instinctual urges will take over and they will have very little control over their actions. For other people, a gunfight is an entirely different experience and lining up your sights, putting a red dot in target, controlling your trigger press and everything else is a much more studied and intentional process. I can certainly tell you as a matter of first-hand experience that anyone who is functioning at a high level in any kind of military combat unit, or law enforcement tactical units, sure as heck is able to use their pistol sights in a lethal situation. Your average beat cop, your average Marine or soldier, maybe not so much.

Nowadays the sight industry are more concerned in the "pimp my gun" perspective. More money and merchandise. For me... Stock iron sights😍 all the way.

Did he make a MIA PaperPlanes reference? Damn I wonder if anyone else caught that.

Well done, this is fantastic work. My own experience has also been that learning to do sighted fire in a hurry has made me very good at point shooting. Use enough sight for what you need to do.

Adding context and defining terminology is a superpower for KZfaq creators. Great job making a rational and well articulated video on the subject.

I've never had to shoot someone, but in IDPA I used my sights quite often. At arm's length, no. Shooting from retention, no.

Short answer: no, pistol sights are not required in a gunfight.

This video is pure gold , I encourage anyone who wants to practice defensive shooting to test him/her self on the FBI Q Pistol test , it only takes 50 rounds. Please consider beforehand do some dry fire.

A lot of good information in a short video. I think your analysis was spot on.

Aaah people are walking around with their sights covered up. That explains a lot of what I've seen. Lol get out to the range guys! Even if its your yard with an airsoft. Get that presentation sharp 🤠

Heck yeah I was raised on iron sights.

Another great video from Chris! This series is great and very informative. Loved the airsoft experiment.

Chris, before I retired, I owned a private training school in addition to my law enforcement duties. I trained about 30,000 private citizens, mostly beginners, in the defensive use of handguns. This was in the pre-KZfaq era, and back then training doctrine had to be developed from scratch. Pretty much what we had were training materials based on Bullseye and PPC shooting, and these weren't all that helpful. I respect how you approach shooting problems and your integrity in reporting your results to all of us. At the end of this video I was smiling, because the conclusions you reached were the same ones I came to more than 30 years ago. What I told my students, in an effort to make things easier for them to remember, was that from 0-10 feet, they could fire without needing to see their sights, so long as they exercised good trigger control, and brought the gun to as close an eye level point as they could. We only did this exercise after the students had worked on their sighted fire, and then they got surprisingly good results with "point fire". We then did an exercise that I called "retention fire" where the gun was indexed to the pectoral muscle for extreme close quarters shooting. We showed the students that these shots would be low by the same distance between the pectoral muscle and the eye line, but that was okay and made it less likely they would be disarmed. We then went to distances between 10 feet and 10 yards, and showed them that at these ranges, a "flash sight picture" that merely superimposed the front sight on the area to be hit would work well. Again, trigger control was stressed. Then we moved to shots beyond 10 yards, where I advocated a "hard sight picture" with the classic alignment of front and rear sight. I freely admitted that my 10 feet, 10 yards, and over 10 yards were only guidelines, and that more athletic people with better hand-eye coordination could probably stretch these distances a bit with a handgun that really fit well, provided they knew how to manage a trigger. Back at the time I took a lot of grief from instructors who either felt that "every shot should be a sighted shot", and those who felt that sights on a defensive handgun were irrelevant. My last admonishment to each class was if given a choice between practicing sighted fire or unsighted fire, they should spend the most time using sights. I told them that if they did this, when they encountered a situation where they could not see their sights, they would be fine, but that the reverse (practicing mostly unsighted fire) was not true. Over the years I had many of these students back to my range for defense shooting drills and I was pleased to see that most of them who did only dry fire exercises at home (heavily emphasized in our classes) could still hit well with their pistols. I was happy to see in this video that a modern day expert like yourself has come to largely the same conclusions.

When I took my bodyguard training, the instructor was against point shooting. We HAD to use the sights for every shot. To get certified, I did as he wanted. BUT, at very close range, instinctive shooting does work. All I can say is put in practice with both methods. One thing I did notice....if your front sight is on the target, you may be high, you may be low...but you will be putting hits on a man's torso.

Solid info, thanks for sharing. Thanks for not just talking about it but actually showing results with time from both. Rick

I love the thumbnail. Laura Ingalls in the time-warp with a 1911

One of the best analysis I have seen!

Yes sights are useful, maybe not in the sense we think. Dry firing endless times to get muscle memory, we use our sights to make sure we are on target when we push the gun out. Part of that dry firing is to eventually build your muscle memory to the point you can have your eyes closed as you push the gun out, then open your eyes to see if you were on target just from the muscle memory itself. This is so in case you have to defend yourself in the dark, you'll know that the gun is in the right position instinctively. But it is also for when you are stressed, your muscle memory takes over and will put the gun on target even without looking at the sights.

Excellent presentation, well thought out. The observation about sighted practice helping point shooting function is spot on. It enhances other motor skills needed.

I just love it the way you said "My gun became our gun" I will use that.

A reasoned approach to information is so refreshing. Thanks

I just hated that I couldn't give you more Thumbs Ups for this Video. Summarising and presenting a rationale argument for a topic spanning 100's of years in 12.28minutes. Well done !

I very much appreciate the way Mr. Baker speaks in complete sentences, and does lard his discourse up with that most dumb-sounding of all non-words, "UH." It is a pleasure to listen to him speak !

That ending was flippin awesome 😆😆 I love that song!

You are the most logical, precise and eloquent guntuber on my feed. Excellent stuff as always

Excellent video with great advice! 👍🏻

Love the content! And as always, that sign off. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Again another rational look at the subject. Partaking in some formal training is always beneficial, regardless of which training facility you attend. Personally, I went to Front Sight, which I found to be pretty decent "training for the masses" and my shooting certainly improved by the end of 4 days, plus it was a lot of fun.

Thank you Chris, great information.

Excellent video!

Great video bro👊

Good video and good information. As a retired police officer, I’ve always practice point shooting. When we qualify, we first start at 3 yards, the first two exercises are drawing from the holster and hip shooting two rounds at the target.

Excellent video and excellent advice!