"...so that's what we did." And that is why I love watching videos from Chris and Lucky Gunner. Outstanding work, as always.

i get the question but in reality people who fight on 2 way ranges probably vastly prefer the reliability of centerfire over rimfire regardless of how similar their ballistic performance is

Ohh here we go Part 2

For me, there is just one thing that matters between these 2 rounds. One is rimfire, and the other is center fire. I do not agree with letting my life depend on a rimfire cartridge.

NATO: make us a round that penetrate armor but doesn't over penetrate a human body. it's for hostage situations. FN: got you fam 😏👉 FBI: why doesn't this penetrate deep enough? FN: cuz i didn't make it for you for every situation every human might ever face 🤔🤷‍♂️🤦‍♂️

1:17 "Violent criminals with body armor are an extraordinarily rare threat for the average citizen in the US..." I have no doubt this is true. But it does seem that body armor wearers are a significant and growing percentage of mass shooters. Aurora, Buffalo supermarket, Garland TX, San Bernadino. So for people who may be concerned with mass shootings specifically -- such as armed school staff -- armor piercing is more than some quirky fascination.

so in a pistol it reaches the penetration and reliability threshold with better (albeit not extraordinarily so) perm wound cavity than a fmj while being light recoil, lightweight, flat shooting, and holding ton of bullets? I totally get why someone would like this. Though I guess like everything else, a tradeoff and def not a replacement for 9mm pistols but an alternative that is most certainly valid.

Always glad to see Lucky Gunner in my feed.

I don't understand all the debate about it. All the testing proves it's not as good as the rifles rounds it shouldn't be compared too, but that it is(arguably) as good as the handgun round it was designed to replace, while holding more rounds, having less recoil, and being flatter shooting. Edit: A few people are confused in the comments so, just to clarify, the round it was meant to replace was 9mm ball ammo from the late 80s, not modern day hollow points. I thought that would be understood, my bad.

The 5.7x28mm was designed for a purpose that doesn't apply to most of us, but that is essentially the only thing it does better than a plethora of other rounds. I could see it as a small game/varmint cartridge in a pistol but it's an expensive cartridge so I don't think it will ever be popular for that purpose.

One of the best videos I've seen on 5.7, fair, factual and as it should be, points out the balance that all calibers have when it comes to usage. I'm a 5.7 fan, have several, I also am a 22 fan(LR and Mag), but at the end of the day, there is a reason that some calibers have been around, stand the test of time and exist in abundance. The rest of them, are fun to collect, share and hit the range with.

Thanks for the video. For civilian self-defense, I'd still rather have great expansion in a round that is less likely to go through an attacker and hit someone or something downrange. The FBI has pushed twelve inches of penetration for a long time. In part, that's because of the 1986 shootout where they had the fluke occurrence of a bullet going through an attacker's upper arm, going through the right half of his chest, and stopping just short of his heart. That the attacker continued to fight and killed two agents is terrible, but that doesn't change the fact that the situation was a very low probability situation. The other part of the FBI's preference for penetration is that an FBI agent wouldn't get in as much trouble as a civilian would if one of their shots went through an attacker and caused serious harm to an innocent bystander. They'd get some unfriendly media coverage, but the agent would be much less likely to be sued into bankruptcy or prosecuted into a jail cell. A regular citizen is much more likely to be destroyed if a bullet penetrates an attacker and hurts someone else. I also believe that a bullet that produces great expansion is going to stop well over ninety percent of the attackers that I would encounter. Those stops may not always be hard physical stops that absolutely keep the attacker from continuing to attack, but they will be a combination of physical and psychological stops that allow me to go home alive. Maybe the attacker is going to remain functional enough to pull the trigger of his gun again. Maybe he (or even she) will get lucky and fire a shot that hits me. That scenario is unlikely. I can accept that chance of my dying more easily than I can accept the chance that some eighteen-inch penetration bullet is going to hit an innocent person beyond the attacker. The other big advantage of 5.7x28 over 9mm is for those who consider themselves "preppers" of any kind. I would love for someone to build a 5.7x28 equivalent of the Ruger 10/22. With the added reliability of a centerfire cartridge, this kind of rifle would be great for all-around survival usage. This rifle would be great for hunting game. This rifle with an extended magazine would be adequate for self-defense. Maybe it wouldn't look as "tacticool" as many 5.7x28 rifles on the market today, but with centerfire reliability, it would do the job. If someone had to walk into the woods with only what he or she could carry, that person could carry about two or three times as much 5.7x28 ammunition because the weight of each round is going to be half to a third that of 9mm ammunition.

For as long as the 5.7 cartridge has been out, I wonder why not one company has made a small bolt action rifle with magazine fed yet for the 5.7 ? The small game hunters I think with love a bolt action 5.7

The 5.7 is actually a pretty good round, it’s just too expensive for practical use. But I do want to get a few firearms chambered in it. I think the best argument for 5.7 is that initial penetration, recoil control and capacity. If we look at the purpose of a CCW/defensive use handgun, we need something that stays on target and you have multiple shots to take. All that really matters is shot placement, so if we can do that with multiple chances I think that’s what’s important, because in the real world we miss.

Great study! Would be great to see some data on reliability of .22WMR. Everyone keeps saying it’s not as reliable but that hasn’t been my experience.

Once again, thank you for the time and effort that you and LGA put into these gel tests.

Great data, thanks for taking the time to compile it. Big fun of both cartridges!

For home defense with 5.7 ammo cost doesn't really matter, so I really like that 1) it doesn't blow through multiple walls 2) it has a lot of capacity 3) low recoil for fast, accurate, repeatable shot placement That said...man it's hard to call those terminal ballistics adequate. Thanks for the thorough 2-part test!

The 5.7 penetrates soft body armor. Has good wound cavity. Does not over penetrate so bystanders won't get hit. has a softer recoil than 9mm. You can have 50 rounds available. Sounds like a great home defense round.

Chris, Your analysis videos are so CONSISTENTLY amazing! What an excellent teaching tool for discussions about bullet design, velocity, expansion, penetration. Thanks for all your hard work, I've been watching your stuff for many years now and have loved every moment.

Outside of boutique (vanguard, black fang, etc), all ammo is made by Fiocchi (fn licensed) or AAC (unlicensed, reverse engineered AFAIK). It appears as all the Fiocchi loads are intentionally loading light charges... possibly due to reputation of the round from years ago.

I think when psa comes out with the x57 we will see even more sales of 5.7x28 and more people pushing it into the bag/travel gun role. Personally I wish Crye would do something with their pdw they patented a few years ago. For those who don’t know, it’s a mp7 format pdw with a special magazine that has a controlled tilting follower in the magazine to allow rifle magazines to fit into the grip of the gun. That gun in 300 blackout with a 1:5 twist for heavy expanding subsonics would be awesome. I load 300blk with makers 220gr expanding subs and they are devastating.

Buffman range does great tests with all sorts of calibers. And I was verry impressed with the vanguard vampires. Very nasty tumbling and deep penetration, also good post penetration (post soft amor) very close to high performing 9mm ap. Why is it amazing if it's only close to the better of the 9mils? 5.7 is generally only half the weight of the 9mm counterpart (total weight of the round, not only bullet weight) You can have more bullets in the same size mag. It's flatter shooting than 9mm and less recoil than 9mm. While being close to damge on target.

Thank you for the amazing content and goign above and beyond chris, been watching for about 2 years and appreciate the effor you put in.

Y'all just awesome. Prices, shipping, videos. The only time I share the excitement of this level as a consumer is for Costco. Thank you for your work. - Fellow happy owner of a PX4CC

Great video. Thank you for doing all the tests!

Lucky Gunner videos are IMO the most well-presented/written/filmed/edited firearms content on KZfaq. I always look forward to your videos. Thanks!

Always the best and most honest info on ammo !

Excellent work. When you you started to explain all the things necessary to compare 22 mag to 5.7 I thought for sure it was going to be the reason you couldn't do it. Pleasant surprise, you guy went the extra mile and did all the tests necessary to get a full understanding of the subject. I will be sure to use your services on my next ammunition purchase as a way to thank you.

Super informative Chris! Another great vid! Love your .32 and 10mm content, as well. Thank you!

Those are poor velocities on the neutered Gold Dot. They made it a 4 petal design and slowed it way down. I wish FN wouldn't control the overall performance of these loads and slow them down to appease political tensions..

Thank you for your continued ballistic testing. I would love to see you continue to add to your tests in other calibers as well.

Good review, thanks, Chris.

The 5.7 has reliability, but the Maxi-mag .22 Magnum had consistent penetration at a caliber and velocity where expansion and temporary cavities aren't going to be as beneficial, so the ol' rimfire looks better to me if I had to carry one of the two. That being said, 9mm is cheaper and more readily available. Plus, when it comes to niche cartridges, I prefer .357 SIG, which only lacks in capacity vs the 5.7, but is a more all around solid cartridge that's just not common enough.

This is why SG1 team members required 5-10 impacts on jaffa to be effective. For semi auto protection they were better off using jaffa staff weapons.

Check out some of Elite Ammunitions 5.7 Most of the non boutique ammo is loaded light on the propellant and essentially come from the same place. The advantage of the 5.7mm for civilians is that it has a acceptable wound channel and permanent cavity while having something like 30% less recoil and being able to load more bullets in a magazine. If you want to live on the wild side you can even find +P 5.7mm

Great analysis- thanks!

I really appreciate the direct and to the point approach.

My EDC is a 5.7. Is 9mm probably better. Yup. But this thing is cool.

These awesome videos is honestly why I love buying ammo from you guys!

“Violent criminals with body armor” sounds like the police to me 🤷‍♂️

I don't think there's much surprise here, but thanks for all the work that went into this. I think Lucky Gunner has the definitive work on this cartridge.

Thanks, Chris, for all this excellent information, your work on this question only stands to reinforce the notion that I already have enough calibers that I purchase from you and don't need another. :D

My issue is recoil It’s got to the point where my hands hurt shooting almost any handgun, shot a IWI Masada a couple weeks ago and my hands hurt for a couple days afterwards. The joys of arthritis and carpal tunnel I guess lol. Considering 5.7 for the supposed reduction in recoil

I love Chris’ videos, and encourage Lucky Gunner to make more sooner, rather than later.

thank you to Lucky Gunner for another fantastic overview!

Great as always!

I love the gotcha moment when we were led to believe they weren’t going to do all that 22 mag testing. That really made my day.

I always have some reservations about obsessing with 12"+ penetrations when evaluating a round for self-defense. What you really want is for as much of the rounds energy to be deposited into the target as possible. A round which passes clean through the target has wasted all of that extra energy. A round which comes to a stop 'only' 6-8" deep in a target has dumped 100% of its energy into that target. So all of the rounds which separate and lose petals are in my mind better because they dump their energy faster and more completely in the target. When you consider the depth of the torso of an attacker, all of the vital stuff is in that 6-8" range where most of the damage has been done. Any further penetration by the round, either in part or in whole is just a waste. Or even actively detrimental as who knows where that bullet is going.

Been waiting on this one!!!

QUOTE: "Is 5.7x28mm Just Overpriced .22 Magnum?" No. 5.7x28mm is just overpriced 22TCM9R ammo. (FYI - Paul Harrell has already studied and comprehensively addressed this topic.)

In a revolver with DA rimfire is not as much of an issue, it should discharge on the next trigger pull when it rotates to the next round. Clearing a dud from an automatic is more disruptive.

Great video ! Definitely gives us the low down on what's affective . If you have a reason to need a low recoil round either will do the job ! if not then I'm sticking with 9mm , recoil isn't an issue for me and with good ammo it does its job

Excellent analysis!

Quality content as always.

I don’t know why I care so much about 5.7

Thank you for your dedication to ballistic science.

Awesome presentation (both part 1 & 2 ) now I know why I buy from LG

Glad you hit on all the major points with this cartridge. Center fire reliability, low recoil, quick follow ups. If you haven't shot a full auto P90 do it if you get the opportunity. You can dump 50 rounds into a fist size grouping at 25 yards NO PROBLEM, even a roller delayed 9mm carbine has trouble doing that, between high rate of fire and low recoil, its the cumulative effect of 6-7 rounds into a target in no time at all that puts this on par with any of the other self defense cartridges, even in semi auto a 5.7 pistol is so flat you can still dump several rounds into a 1 inch hole in the time it takes to get a 9mm subcompact back on target again. It's too easy for people to exaggerate the effectiveness of 5.7 but at the same time this video proves that it is indeed NOT equal to 22 magnum. It's all subjective though depending on the level of training I'm not discounting the effectiveness of 9mm either it's my EDC after all. 124gr HST's are hard to beat.

Woo! Been excited to see this

Great video. Great comparison. I've heard 5.7 is basically just a .22 mag for years, and your video does debunk that, for the most part.

An SBR'd Ps90 is the best "PCC" money can buy. Light weight, low recoil, small, and packs 50 rounds. Less worry of over penetration too. It's a fantastic bedside/backpack gun.

Well done, Chris!

Hey Mr. Baker, I appreciate these videos on more niche calibers. One thought: When examining rifle calibers, we don't expect them to meet the pistol specifications (12-18 inches etc.). Should we judge these cartridges by those different standards as well, or would that be irrelevant because of the lack of temporary wound cavity? Great video as always.

What do you mean "the last time for a long while" ? Please keep making these amazing informative and life saving videos! I hope all is well and I'm about to go order some ammo from lucky gunner to support content creation.

Thank you for the videos. It seems to be a fair test. I really like the 5.7 now I have the FN pistol the PS 90 and p50 i to agree with the video but it would not bee my go to self defense weapon. Again thank you for the video.

The video poster said it all in ONE sentence-"These rounds are only comparable if we use a 22 magnum rifle vs a 5.7 handgun." DAMN. That's saying more than enough.

“Violent criminals with body armor are an extraordinary rare threat for the average citizen in the US, at least for now” The Mexican Cartel has entered the chat… and the country

Well done!

I was very excited to see this video out today, thanks!!! 🤓💥🔫

With PSA coming out with the X57. I see the round being used as a truck gun. It has a large capacity in a small format making it ideal for for a quick weapon to have on hand.

Except for the niche of Kevlar penetration, simple 9mm ball has far better barrier penetration, tissue penetration, and a bigger temp cavity than the 5.7

No other caliber seems to liven up a caliber debate like the 5.7. There is simply no middle ground, people either love it or hate it.

its weird watching these videos today, I remember watching similar ones well over a decade ago that focused on why 9mm wasn't a good self defense round. Also like 6.5, 5.7 looks like its getting more options each year so it will become more popular for various reasons. I've had 5.7 in my selection since the late 2000s. Its a fun cartridge that people are fascinated by and still relatively unknown in a lot of ways. IDK if i would carry it as an EDC but for going around its not much more expensive than a few other rounds i own thats only purpose it to shoot most of the time. The price of everything is kinda crazy, but I will suggest checking out estate auctions in your area especially if you shoot shotguns as unless its an ar platform round can get most rounds on the cheap. Even some of the rounds that are crazy, i found 44-40 for less than 45 cents per round and recently got 7mm for around 80cents per round. If its fun for you then have fun and if you need something that will be your EDC type then prob not the round for you at this point.

Great analysis. Newbie, enjoy the learnin'

Was into the 5.7 a while back. Had a PS90 and it was fun. In the end I moved away from the round and don’t miss it. Just did not have a use for it.

I have both a 5.7 x 28 carbine and pistol so I can say this cartridge is THE best pistol cartridge available for self defense (against humans, not grizzly bears). Flat shooting with the longest range pistol cartridge made. Several hundreds of rounds can be carried, another 5.7 x 28 advantage over 9 mm. ..

Good to know. Thank you.

Personally for me if I want low recoil I also most likely want low blast also and would go with a 32 caliber revolver. For an auto loader I am kind of in the rimfire camp since it isn't reloadable anyway. That said I think the .32acp is under appreciated. The only real issue with it is that it doesn't handle heavy bullets well but the screwdriver tip solids mitigate that somewhat. I haven't looked at the 30 SC much as I am not big into the autos but it strikes me that it might be a bit much for a pocket pistol.

Due to nerve damage in my gun hand I couldn't fire a center fire handgun for 1 1/2 years. During that down time I carried a Ruger Single Six with a 6.5" barrel in an inside the waist band in a cross draw position. I chose CCI Maxie Mag 40 grain FMJ load and practiced only head shots. Tactically an assailant will always have to expose his head to fire at all accurately.

Leaving out fiocchi hyperformance feels like an oversight, but good data nonetheless. Great stuff.

The answer to the question of "is 5.7 any good?" is another question... "how much barrel ya got"? The whole "not punching thru armor" pretty much takes away the ONE thing that 5.7 was centered around.

I absolutely love the cool factor of the PS90, the look, the brilliant magazine, the compactness, the full ambi, but when the pistol arguably has better terminal performance, I just can’t “pull the trigger” on getting one. Me sad. 😢

11:08 to 11:12. I say loading rimmed or semi rimmed cartridges into a magazine are kind of a pain in the butt. You also have to be more aware how you load them because you don't want that rim lock to happen and when come to unloading the magazine it's also a little tricky.

This is great timing considering PSA's got their new 5.7 PDW coming out! Seems 40 rounds of speer gold dot... while also functioning as a solid check of one's credit, is certainly a viable answer to the 'bringing enough gun' equation.

I really want to do some testing with a 20" lightweight hunting rifle in 5.7x28mm. I think that it has the potential to equal or surpass 22 Hornet. Now that's a interesting and practical test and application for 5.7x28 that most people probably never considered.

I am indifferent about the 5.7x28 cartridge. That FN PS-90 sub gun is my concern. Especially that magazine with the turntable that changes the direction of a bullet to align the bullet to to the barrel. I just don't trust complicated mechanisms. More parts meant more breakages

I have 2 ps90s. One is a 16" barreled, and the other 10" barrel with a permanently afixed 6" can to evade the NFA rules.

I thought that the low penetration with a large permanent wound cavity is the main selling point for self defense rounds... See hornady critical defense vs critical duty 9mm rounds. Both excellent for their application.

I like getting people hooked on 22 and 5.7 have not failed yet with making new gun enthusiasts

So what I'm hearing here is there is a massive hole in the market for a 5.7 bolt or semi auto hunting gun that's optimized for reloaders 😝 The performance of the Gold Dot out of handguns does at least show it's not a wholly worthless endeavor and can actually perform. Unfortunately cost still is a massive factor, as well as having awkward dimensions because of the cartridge length. I still don't quite understand why the industry has made this 30-year-old niche round the new gimmick, I was content with it staying firmly in the Stargate and Battlestar cosplay department, but I can see a slightly broader niche developing

Will you by any chance be doing a video on 300 Black Out? I keep hearing a lot about it, but I wonder if it’s all hype.

NO! It's an incredible cartridge and has awesome guns that fire it, like P90, PS90, PSA Rock, FN Five-seveN, Smith & Wesson M&P5.7 5.7x28mm, Keltec P50, Ruger 57, Double Action 5.7X28, Diamondback DBX57 5.7x28mm Pistol and quite a few others.

I am still staying with my 9mm and 45ACP. I would like to see you do a vs video about the 17 HMR vs 22 magnum.

As a Stargate fan I disagree 😂

To me the terminal ballistics look great. It will get past the ribs and expand causing pretty decent damage right through the vitals but not over penetrate. My chest is not much thicker than 12 inches, so all energy would be dumped within my chest. I personally carry 9mm critical defense for that reason. Dumps energy quickly within the chest cavity.

more ammo break downs like this

5.7mm superior in every way except price. It was made to dump all of its energy within 16 inches.. So it does NOT overpenetrate. Also.. If you get shot 3x with 5.7mm you are having a bad day.. The real problem is that people compare 5.7 to big boy rifle cartridges out of a 16+ inch barrel. Compare this to a 9mm only because that is what it was made to replace.. 1)larger capacity. 2) longer range 3) larger temporary wound cavity 4) safer for everyone around due to less instance of ricochet and over penetration..

Some years ago Savage was offering the 5.7 in their walking varminter. I believe these had 22 or 24 inch barrels.. With the shallow penetration and rapid expansion in the longer barrels, seems like it would be just the ticket for groundhogs, prairie dogs, even foxes and coyotes without excessive hide damage or over-penetration. On paper it just seemed like a modern day 22 hornet, but suited for semi autos.

I think it would be cool if they resized it for 8mm. It would in theory have the same case volume as 327 mag, but for a semi auto. 57 also has a higher pressure spec than 327, so maybe approaching hot 10mm energy with better than 9mm capacity