chat gonna go so fast that nobody gonna know that on the weekends I slather myself up in azeroth blood and wiggle around like a rock worm

Titans, masters of the cosmos, could not see a way to safely kill these things. But Bob from Northshire, the mele hunter, just hits C'Thun and Yogg and and now they're dead... *CERTIFIED BLIZZARD QUALITY*

The way I see it, N'zoth had two plans. Plan1: he wins Plan2: he physically dies and him an xal find a way to bring them all back.

I don't think N'Zoth planned to lose however I believe he had a contingency plan in case he would. To quote Xalatath "As was often the case with the God of the Deeps, even in defeat he ultimately won" I like the notion of the Old Gods not really dying just returning to the Void which they have hinted at in the past, but I would much rather have at least N'Zoth and Yogg still around but be inactive possibly hiding their presence to create a false sense of security possibly to trigger the awakening of Azeroth to "fatten the goose"

Its so heartwarming seeing nobbel being happy and exited about wow lore again it made me actually be also exited for wow lore since i quit in SL start

Your uploads are always in the morning for me, always nice to wake up with some lore. You're a gem, Nobbel!

I always went with the thought that Xal was a Progenitor Old God or Void Lord - Perhaps akin to Sargeras and creating the Legion, she helped create the Old Gods and sent them on their Mission. Her lusting for power by absorbing World Souls drew attention from the other Void Lords, and she was stripped of power and sealed away. Only for her creations to connect with her and the only way she could regain enough strength to break free was to absorb the essence of the Old Gods, who gladly gave their lives to their creator, with Nzoth being the final key, so she could ascend again and fulfil the legacy of the Void Lords but now in her own image as shes detached from the other Void Lords. And now with War Within, she's gunning for the World Soul for her own consumption or twist into a stronger twisted Void Lord/Old God to take revenge. Alas Nzoth in his true fashion for bargains traded her freedom for his essence to be put into the blade so she could resurrect him later, so he could see all the freedom, justice and peace he brought to his new empire.

The Old Gods should not be fully killable. Atleast not as easily as we have been. Y'Shaarj is a good example of how old gods should be dealt with. You can kill their physical form but something about them lingers in the very land its self. They also hinted at Yogg doing this as well in the legion pre event or it's opening. We went back to Ulduar and found there were void beings around and Yogg was whispering/laughing at us, but of course they dropped that plot line. Void Lords are gonna end up being Void Titans that were banished by Aman'thul before he found the rest of the Pantheon.

N'zoth being misused is why I quit, 12 years of build up and hype all wasted. so they could give us an xpack where we fought bald evil nipple man with 0 build up instead.

I’m normally against “it was a dream all along”, but if we found out Shadowlands (and I guess also Dragonflight, less happily) were an N’Zoth vision and we are still stuck in Nya’lotha, it’d be cool

I think the best way to do it would be "The Old Gods were created to conquer Azeroth and they were designed to basically Taint and nuke the world into Void if they lost and their energies were activated by the new Void chosen agent.

The N'Zoth part still hurts since he is the only freed Old God we have encountered.. and all we got is a boring raid, boring "kill" cinematic and two boring zones with a little bit of corruption. It had soooo much potential.. what a waste! And imo the OLD GODS are the most interesting stuff in the warcraft lore

I've been waiting for this video from you for so long!

As someone that love everything that's related to the Old Gods or anything Lovecraftian, I completely agree with everything you said in the video. It's better they make new lore out of the mistakes of the old lore, instead of trying to redo it. I love all the speculation that's come from all the new stuff!

if ideas run out, break glass to revive old gods

14:07 not to mention there has been lot of people helming the story who have no idea what they are doing

If N'zoth returns at some point it would be crazy to see him back. I mean pieces of his essence is in the Black Blade Dagger and not 100% sure if the Old Gods are truly dead.

Years later and the Old gods are still the most interesting thing about this game.

The old gods were imprisoned long before the Sundering, which blasted everything far and away. I find it plausible that the Arathi are in a location that used to be a shore line of the Unsundered Kalimdor. That original kaboom is the pivotal moment that caused a ton of issues

I wouldn't say that Y'shaarj's death is so clear cut, either. I mean, he's dead, yeah, but it's a little inconsistent. Garrosh came away from that fight with no consequences for his absorbing of an Old God's power in the slightest. All of that power had to go somewhere, and I definitely wouldn't say that an Old God's power can be "spent". Everything we've seen points to the idea that all of that power tends to dilute and spread, not simply disappear after a big pow-wow. Not that I expect Blizzard to ever address it. I never really liked the resolution of Y'shaarj in the first place. The way the Klaxxi just signed up with Garrosh because he found a piece of their dead god was a little ridiculous. When I did that quest I was excited that they would rebuild their empire and eventually turn it towards us again when it was time for the Old Gods to truly make their return... except, instead, they just threw themselves against the player character blending machine. Talk about a let-down.

"So, your Alliance still endures. Longer than I expected, though she has already planted the seeds of its downfall. She is patient, that one. When your thrones run red with betrayal… when your holy places burn and the shattered mask hangs above your hearth… only then you will know. And it will be too late. It matters not. You are blind to the true darkness closing in around you." What if Varymathras wasn't talking about Sylvanas at all? The quote could easily be about Xalatath, what is darker than the void after all?

I’m convinced the old gods will come back in some form - I can’t get the N’zoth whispers from the bronze oathstone quest out of my mine when thinking about it… “Deeper and deeper roots it’s roots will reach. Welcoming our embrace… her dreams sing beneath the surface. Our dreams. Our song.” New world tree is where everyone first heard voices… night elves about to take another capital city L?

"The Old Gods are dead" doesn't mean much in a universe where death is merely a setback.

It doesn't make sense if we killed them. Why did the titan keepers imprison them? If they could be killed like we did then there's no reason for them to be left alive

Was always of the opinion since BFA that N'zoth had the backup plan that in the off chance we were in the reality where we killed him.. that he could goad someone into using the blade of the black empire to seal a portion of his essence away, so that he could return one day. It worked for sealing Xalatath, so why not N'Zoth?

I really hope that theyre pulling a page out of Baldur’s Gate 3 and treating Xal'atath like BG3 treated The Emperor. BG3 was a masterclass in making the actual player feel the same emotions as the character in-game is supposed to be feeling dispite the dissonance of having metagame information. If theyre trying to do that angle here that would be really great imo.

I think new old gods might arrive. Since the lore was retconned like a billion times now we know that old gods are not some lovecraftian unknown forces but puppets of the void lords.

Xalatath has already made a major mistake: she's choosing a Windrunner as her enemy. They have a legacy of being rather op.

I have always thought how weird it was that we only faced an echo of Y'shaarj. He was always said to be the strongest and even within the Dark Heart of Pandaria Scenario we hear the voice of Y'shaarj saying ¨I only slumber¨ when its avatar in a goblin it possessed is destroyed. Even what we faced with Garrosh was nothing near what we faced with the others, so I pose this scenario. What if Xal'atath is seeking to bring Y'shaarj back fully? What if N'zoth also sought something similar? I could see the return of Y'shaarj merit us teaming up with the Army of the Light, as a being of Y'shaarj's strenght would demand such a team up. But that is only my own theory.

I've been saying since day 1 of Ny'Alotha raid. N'zoth is still alive. we never ever killed him. Fight ends on 2%. Never saw his corpse.

Hi Nobbel. What do you think about idea that the Old Gods where only keys for something bigger. For example their death was needed to open the way for the void lords to our reality? Something along the way: we send Old Gods to corrupt world soul if they succed great we win, but just in case they fail we place a plan b. When they die their blood and void energies or something along those lines gather up and allow much bigger influence on the world by the Void Lords. And great thanks for all your work. Your lore videos always makes my day

“Somehow, the Old Gods returned” -Blizzard, probably

We are askin THAT question again...

The thing that modern Blizzard doesn't get about the Old Gods is where the appeal of them came from. There is a reason why up until Legion the lore put them as these beings that just appeared out of nowhere. These unexplained gods which far far FAR surpase the Titans in power. Who we can only take on as raid bosses because those manifestations are heavily weakened shades of their true potential, and even if defeated all we can do is push them back and hope that when, not if, when they return to reclaim the world as they once did, that we are long d*ad by then to not suffer under their rule. And that reason is that the Old Gods are inspired by Lovecrafts mythos, where similar gods lie in waiting, always at the edge of existance, waiting in the perivery of our very minds for the stars to be right so they can return to that which we call reality. The appeal of these entities, as well as the appeal of the Old Gods is the desperation of it all, the sheer hopelessnes when faced with gods uncaring for our existance, far too great, complex and alien for us to ever understand their motives. Gods with such unlimited, unrivaled power that there is no hope to stand against them. They are always inevitable, around the corner, waiting. And when the day of their return comes then there is no denying them. The lore of the Old Gods was ruined all the way back in Legion. By establishing 3 things they absolutely ruined them ireperably. 1: They told us where they come from. 2: They told us what their motive is. 3: They told us that they are little more than ants when compared to the Titans. Even if the Old Gods are still alive, unless they redcon these 3 things together with the lore introduced in BFA as well as the bs about a Night Warrior being enough to k*ll an Old God they introduced in Shadowlands to be exactly like the Old Gods where written from vanilla to WOD then it doesn't matter if they still live or not, I would even prefer it if they didn't if all they are is "OoooOOOooo! spoooopy purple tentalces! OOOooooOOOOoo!!!"

I can't wait for expansion number 24 "Wrath of the Banshee Empress" where they introduce the Void Kings, who are even more powerful than the void lords.

Could the tapestry at 17:52 be depicting "the Ancient One" mentioned on the stone tablet in the Azq'roth time rift? I remember the tablet mentioning sacrifices to the Ancient One and the tapestry does seem to show Aqir walking into the mouth.

C'thun and Yogg'saron's deaths were always a bit confusing to me. The titans creations can't kill these things, but a group of random dudes show up, kill a god, then go on to fight some undead people who are somehow stronger than a god. And that happens twice! But N'zoth's death seemed a bit contrived to me, so I'd like to potentially counter your counter-points; 1) N'zoth can open up portals, so what's to stop him from opening up one like he did for Xal'atath and just yeeting the dagger through to keep it safe? I know that's kind of a reach, but at the same time I feel like the dagger being able to damage an old god so much and then just explode into nothing is too. If that was how it worked, then why was it still intact with Xal'atath inside of it? Another question that needs answering is; why did N'zoth give it to the Horde player? Like you said the Horde give it to Sylvanas, she gives it to Nathanos, who brings it to Azshara, who was going to use it to betray N'zoth, who knew about the betrayal all along , but didn't bother searching her for the blade. Why? What was the purpose of giving the blade to the Horde in the first place? Why not let Xal'atath take it into space so we wouldn't be able to use it? You could argue that Azshara needed to have the blade to feel confident enough to break N'zoth out of prison, but if that was the reason he made sure it got to her, why not search her for the blade after to make sure we couldn't use it against him? 2) N'zoth can supposedly see all possible futures, so it's not like he can be 100% certain of what actions we will take. He can't just pick and choose what future will come to pass, because everyone with free will can still make their own choices. After all, in this raid N'zoth wanted the players to serve him so that he could stop Sylvanas from unleashing the Shadowlands expansion, but obviously we didn't do that. So it would seem that he can't guarantee what will happen, so it makes sense for him to come up with a backup plan in case we decide to shoot him in the face with a laser instead. But of course there is an explanation for this that doesn't need retconning the fate of the Old Gods (Again). N'zoth wanted to die. The Titan keepers couldn't kill the old gods because they were actually trying to win, but after being beaten and imprisoned they realised plan A to corrupt Azeroth failed, so plan B was to let themselves be killed. That part of Xal'atath's message "Their ancient blood runs deep within the cracks of the world" makes me think. Will it seep into the heart of Azeroth itself, either corrupting her or weakening her resistance to the next wave of void corruption Xal'atath is bringing? Or maybe it's just to make her an army. After all the Aqir and Faceless were made from the organic matter of the Old Gods, and now we have a lot of Old God matter just laying around she could use. Or maybe Blizz just can't decide on a single direction for the story and I'm just trying way to hard to make this all make sense in my head. Yeah that's probably it.

I STILL can't believe they did N'Zoth dirty; having an old god FREE and at full power on Azeroth was one of my most anticipated events. Imagine if Azshara was the final boss of that expansion. First, it would have allowed more time for the faction conflict to really sell the war (people complained not enough attention was shown here). This way, the final cinematic for the expansion is N'Zoth freed, and he retreats. That's one hell of a cliffhanger to end on, echoing what we saw at the end of Legion with Chekhov's giant sword... you set things up and the writing needs set up and pay off. No one knows where he is, what he is planning, or when he would strike. If they wanted to do Shadowlands after and involve a time skip when they return, this would have been the PERFECT opportunity for N'Zoth to strike, and they could have built an entire expansion around it. Imagine you come back to Org or Stormwind, and the ENTIRE PLANET has been taken over, and those two capital cities are the last two hold outs. You look up and the entire skybox is filled with N'Zoth's eyes watching you. Periodically you can hear him talk, telling you to give up... you can hear his voice anywhere in Azeroth. Some of the citizens have gone mad and have to be restrained or killed. Your very first quest drops you in the action as you defend your capital city from an attack. Essentially all of Azeroth is the new expansion, with each zone changed and the wild life corrupted. You could use a member of the Bronze Dragonflight to travel back in time before the attack, just like they did with other events like Undercity and Teldrassil being destroyed. The dungeons and raids could involve taking back cities, and the final raid zone is a direct assault on his new black empire and taking on N'Zoth. Over the course of the expansion, zones would be conquered and the corruption cleansed of the land, with new zones opening up as you go deeper into enemy territory. Two continents and the large number of zones means you can have multiple new areas open up at a time. Even better, we could have it so the zones are only blocked off from having enemies that are too numerous and powerful to defeat. If you fly too far inside his territory, winged creatures begin to attack you, mimicking the effect of the fatigue bar. They don't knock you off your mount, but they are able to damage you and remove health. This way, each new zone that opens up is a mystery. I just think it would have been fun and WoW has burnt through most of their major villains without setting up that much that is new. Hopefully that all changes.

We need to lose. Can’t just keep vanquishing evil with a perfect record. There’s gotta be something out there that is too much for us to handle round 1 and we get our asses kicked and sent back to the drawing board. A scenario where we lose and have to live through a world where evil has won for an expansion or two before we go back and are triumphant the second time.

As long as their is profit to be made. Nothing ever dies in warcraft lore.

I would take a look at the overhead map of Deadwind Pass in SOD, then the maps of Dustwallow marsh, Barrens, and Mulgore. Then look at the back of Deadwind Pass's head, and think about the dangerous perhaps coded as radioactive goo in Zaralak caverns. I am getting some ideas.

Just have that draenei spaceship crash into earth, then survivors from the ship come and warn us. New old gods are flying to azeroth. Easy.

I can’t wait for wrath of the Lich king expansion.

Now you made me wonder if we are all living in the old god prison. Like for example all of non broken kalimdor was to be the old god prison kept separate from the main world by these storms that prevent travel. Keeping the contamination to one location. We know the titans (or the constructs at least) experimented with old god, so what if kalimdor is one giant experiment, for example to see if the corruption can be contained/modified to serve the titans.

I hope this all actually wakes up Azeroth. there is so much to speculate on what type of titan is she. what does she look like. not just a whisper rattling around in Magni's noggin.

Nobbel, your objections to ‘N’Zoth hiding in the Xal’atath blade’ theory aren’t very well founded, because you forget a couple key points. 1. Xal’atath, while in the blade, had the ability to slip away from people’s grasps, like with Zan’do, Modgud, Selina, and the player priest. If a powerful Void entity like her could do that, why couldn’t an Old God? We never saw the dagger itself destroyed. 2. N’Zoth can see all futures (you know, standard Void thing) but a VERY important moment happens in Dragonflight where we time travel back to the Black Empire. All the Old Gods notice us, but N’Zoth RECOGNIZES us. By seeing us, he now knows FOR CERTAIN which thread of possible timelines will happen. And if the player had the gift of N’Zoth, then he’d know intimately how we viewed his ‘death’. So all his planning has been put towards this specific timeline not because he thinks it’s the true/correct one, but because it’s a sure thing to survive as long as he plays his role convincingly.

Great video as always. WoW need more old god stuff coz Nobbel speculation & boys from deep = match made in... Black empire ;) OOU KAAXTH SHUUL!

So many valid questions and remarks; I wonder whether Blizzard employees watch this. If the statement on stage at Blizzcon meant that the OLD Gods are DEAD, then a short story explaining who, what and why can't hurt to clarify a thing or two? Speculation is fun, but it is hard to remain intrigued and interested to the details of the story if there never is an ending or conclusion to certain plot lines.

Coming back to this after the echoes of azeroth reaction video. The smokey tentacles in the echoes of azeroth video look like the smoky tentacles of N'Zoth that snatched away Queen azshara. 👀... Bro!!! (Edit) I just noticed I have watched content on this channel for over a decade.

*champions of azeroth kill an old God* Old God after casually resurrecting: "What a fool you are. I'm a god. How can you kill a god? What a grand and intoxicating innocence!"

Here's my pitch. Nzoth said "I know what you will be". They, having the ability to see the future, might have 'died' by transferring their essence at the end of each fight into the one person who would visit them all, the champion of Azeroth. There they might slumber until they could strike at what truly mattered. Not the leader of any faction, but at the wakening Azeroth herself, when she is most vulnerable. I mean, it's not going to happen, but your character as the villain for an expansion because you can't tell reality from old god visions, I'd play that.

Hehe, Shadowland's Jailor I thought was the mastermind of all of this. He was mastermind of all of the bad things, such as the Legion invasion, the Lich King, and so forth.

On the collecting blood of the Old Gods, that can be done without them being dead. Wrath of the Lich King showed this with Saronite. Either way though, Void lore is a mess. Which is kind of funny because I mean it's the void, that is their thing. Only time will tell what happens.

I was thinking how good would it have been for the final raid for battle for Azeroth to essentially be a massive battle across Azeroth, where you fight bosses from Horde or Alliance depending on faction. Last battle could be Vs Sylvannus and they could have the reveal of her hating the horde there (leading into the cinematic). Instead we got old god ??

i just realized that when he summons deathwing its deepholm and that when you look up in the sky in deepholm you see nzoth? the swirls maybe we are fighting him there??

Hey, what are your feelings about tww story direction? Haven't watch the zones as I don't want to spoiled it

so why were the old gods on the same side of azeroth? like would there not be others on the other side of the globe that we havent explored yet? since theres 5 i believe theres still 1 we havent heard about and its there

Nobbel, I know there was some connection to Y'shaarj, but what about Xal'atoh, or the Desecrated Image of Gorehowl? Is there a counterpart being to Xal'ateth? I think you did a video before, but perhaps revisit this theory?

There is one thing we have done differently than the titans when in comes to killing them. In all three cases we did it from the inside.

Can we just retcon Shadowlands through the old gods? Let's say the Shadowlands was just an illusion by them and the whole Expansion never happened?

i think the wise thing would be to say that the old gods were babies of the void lords, and that finally 'momma is here' 'i leave them alone for a few millenia and what do you do to my babies?'

As a blade, Xal'atath had been known to always seemingly abandon its wielder when it was needed most through- mysterious means -if some of N'zoth managed to possess the blade after getting stabbed by Wrathion, should teleportation of some sort be a possible ability of the blade, it could have vanished from his grasp to somewhere else where N'Zoth could bide his time or at the very least provide the essence that Xal'Atath might need to further her plans, and thus N'Zoth's own. Also noble, a good potential reason as to why N'Zoth couldn't plan himself victorious, well let me ask you a question then. What if no plan involving N'Zoth's full unleased might would have been able to win, what if out of all the possible outcomes, defeating the armies of champions and mortals was just not possible. Think about it, the mortal races have managed to defeat a Titan, Death gods, elemental lords tied to Azeroth, A Dragon aspect deeply tied to Magic, A Corrupted Dragon Aspect deeply tied to the Earth itself, Queen freaking Ashara, 2 and a half old gods said half of which is merged with an Orc and whose very remains were still formidable, 2 adepts in seeing the the future being Zul and Elisande the latter of which literally reversed time twice or so and STILL couldn't win. With all of those accomplishments under their belt, really now what chance does even a full powered, yet the weakest, Old God even have? Sure some of these accomplishments were the result of other cosmological forces backing them up, but the point still stands. Mortals have proven that their wills can be so strong that not only can they change fate but also resist the corruption of an Old God in the most crucial moment. There was no winning this, and if there is no winning this and you know it is coming, you make like a warlock and have proper contingency plans in case of death or even an escape plan. Back to the mortals, if you can't enforce the fate of an individual without them subverting it by choice then how are you supposed to get the results you are looking for? By changing how they think. Exposed to Northrend and the events of The Cataclysm, Garrosh Hellscream would choose to go on a warpath which resulted in him turning on his own people and everyone else, depriving the world of a potential hero for the world. Based on what Illidan had gone through, Illidan's experiences would lead him into a choice were he refused the light, depriving himself of a strong means against the void and weakening the light due to the loss of a Naruu. Heck all someone has to do is point in a particular direction, say there is a threat to the world there and the champions and heroes of Azeroth will just destroy anything considered an enemy in that given area even if that might result in weakening the hold of one of the cosmological forces vying for control of Azeroth which happen to be in opposition to the void and will always look for a chance to undermine the void if aware of their prescience. Alive or dead, if things keep going at this rate, N'Zoth will win the war.

"Imagine if Xalatath plunges the world of Azeroth into Darkness at the end of War Within. Imagine if Midnight sees Azeroth returned to how the Titan's found her. How could we possibly fight against such a thing?" The same way we did before? By getting a few random mooks to hit the problem really hard. It worked on the Old Gods, it'll work on a void juiced elf and her army of spiders. Also I REALLY don't like the idea of "what if this is like the Black Empire Plus and the it made the Old Gods, and by extention the Titans, look even more inept than the story already has." Putting down legacy events and characters to try and hype up your new ones is the EASIEST way to make fans hate the new stuff. Case and point. Shadowlands. If they are really going to go forward with the idea that the Old Gods are dead and gone then I'd prefer Bliz just leave them be. Leave them to history and move on to the Void Lords and Xalatath so Blizz can fumble their potential too. (Really hope the War Within makes me eat those words. But we'll see.)

"That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die."

Thought process here but what if N'zoth needed the black blade because he knew Wrathion would use the blade to stab him. so, N'zoth used the blade as a conduit to hide himself within Wrathion just like Sargeras did with Medivh. We know the void can hide really well, like the tiny mote of it that still remained in the Emerald Nightmare raid. "Almost gone," Xal'atath had said. It took a long time, years for the Void to get a grasp on the Emerald Dream again, right? Medivh had no clue anything was wrong with him for decades , right up until he was "freed" from Sargeras by death. Why can't N'zoth simply be biding his time, tucked away deep into the recesses of Wrathion's mind. Maybe even subtly guiding his actions.

Garrosh turned into giant purple pimple monster with the blood of one old god. What could a void creature like Miss Dagger do with even more old god blood?

3,2,1 random idea go: Remember Anveena? The "avatar" of the sunwell? Well Xalatath is just like her but born from the powers of the old gods.

I can belive that C'thun is dead. I mean Sageras sword is going right in to him.

I can see the story already. Shes the big bad, but not really. She has a change of heart. And we now have to destroy another greater evil dude.

i think the idea with the old gods--particularly yogg, we literally strike at his brain. the idea seems to be his cold dead corpse is still in the prison--too large to be removed and bleeding endlessly into the earth. but as we saw with y'sharaaj, even the disembodied stillbeating heart can have 'influence' on the world around....the souls are gone, back to where they came from, whispering to us from the beyond the umbral veil through every shadow the light casts... I suspect that mural in ajkahet is depicting their goal/prophecy: the blood will be used to reform them all TOGETHER. and they will take the crystal to fuel whatever machinations they need to bring about the hour of MIDNIGHT. Twilight has come and gone, this is the time when all the prophecies should line up to their victory--since we know they're going to win. And even if we do unify to beat...THEM unified...as a cool epic raid boss the equivalent of Argus himself with xalatath paralleling Gul'dan....Their goal is to usher in the void, death is nothing to a GOD especially when they not only live on in the realm of darkness, but even the rotting corpses they leave behind spread their influence. I suspect this xpac will see the old gods return to the spotlight and we will face them in their full glory. Meanwhile the overarching plot into midnight will be how they exploit the weakness in Alleria's heart and use her void affinity to use her as a vessel to reach/corrupt the sunwell--which we know we're going to in midnight...after they win. This xpac will see us face the more earthly darkness, and explore the true nature of the void as it affects reality...nerubians, kobolds, old gods and the truth of the black empire that the titans hid from us--id expect a return of the naga for a patch since there's even an ocean biome in hallowfall......but this is just a chapter--the old gods entire purpose is to usher in the void lords and without a doubt we will see dimensius in midnight in his full empowered glory--maybe even the realm of void? but first, the ROOTS of the matter....literally, ilgynoth said the vassal of life hid her betrayal, a crater was created--they filled it with a mysterious unnamed world tree in ungoro CRATER...and n'zoth himself tells us in DF "Deeper, deeper its roots will reach. Welcoming our embrace."

The blade could've blown off of wrathion's hand. And the whole blade could've been something of a backup rather being the plan itself.

When I heard that the Old Gods were dead I was wondering if maybe Xal'atath killed them (Though, Teron Gregory says "We the heroes of Azeroth destroyed them", so maybe not) The Titans couldn't kill the Old Gods because it would be too damaging to Azeroth, but what if Xal'atath didn't care and has spent her time since Battle for Azeroth going around the world and killing off the Old Gods one by one so that their blood would drain into the earth and she could use it for her own purposes. We weakened them and then Xal'atath finished them off, except for N'zoth who is potentially safe inside the Blade of the Black Empire. As mentioned by the Titans, this causes a lot of damage to Azeroth and that's why we're hearing Azeroth crying out in pain I have no actually evidence for any of this, but that's where my mind went to try and fit the "Old Gods are dead" into the story

I'd like to remind everyone that we're talking about the main servants of THE VOID itself! Time and time again, the single only fact that we know for CERTAIN to be true: The Void and it's servants are masters of patience, manipulation, deceit, treachery. Can we really believe ANYTHING we currently have (in-game material) about the Void being true? Who's to say there is definitely ONLY 5 possible Old Gods? For all we know, they could still be holding out to thousands upon thousands of other Old Gods within the Void just waiting to be released.

I bet their alive in some form, i'd like to see Y'Shaarj make an appearance.

The best way to incorporate the Old Gods being dead without our influence is that Xala'tath killed them all off screen for her own means without destabilizing Azeroth, and then used their blood to gain the power necessary to reach the Nerubians and convince them to join her.

In my headcanon, at least, the Old Gods are massive mounds of flesh, so great that the Titans could not cleanse them entirely since they are so massive. We may have taken out a part of them that was responsible for decision making and their more flashy powers, but their flesh is still there, acting on instinct, spawning more minions as C’thun does iirc and Y’shaarj having his bits and pieces pose an existential threat for Pandaria.

So whats the new/old god named, Shub-NyGoth?

Me, I feel like Xalatath was a 'imprisoned' old god or some sort by the Old Gods them selves. When the heroes 'defeated' (weakened them in reality) the Old Gods, she imprisoned them somewhere now and she is up to no good on her own.

Never thought they were totally, personally. You know how you kill a creature and it goes back to its plane? Like how elements go back to their plane and titans go to the realm of order and all that? Why wouldn't the old gods reform in the void reconstituting the void lords that created them? So maybe they're dead on our world but they're even more powerful in their void lord form in the void

They could very easily just bring out new old gods as well, since from what i remember the oldgods are more like void parasites that their masters made to infect worlds. Why would you only have 4 or 5 of them right?

C'thun will comeback someday as well as Nzhot. Imo

What if the other side of Azeroth is infected with "light" old gods. Like Biblically accurate angels will thousands of eyes and wings, rooted into Azeroth just like the old gods, but trying to infect Azeroth with Light instead of void

I always figured that since when the titans killed the multiheaded one on pandaria(cant spell its name leave me alone😂) he almost destoyed pandaria with the sha that still remains all these years later and the titans decided to lock them up instead of killing them or they would destroy the planet, if we killed them wouldent something like that happend again? I mean the titans realised killing them was basically killing the planet, then by all logic they need to still be alive if we and the planet is as well right?

What if the old god's blood is akin to a blood sacrifice for xal'atath's plans?

Turns out the old gods were controlling The Jailer who was controlling everything.

What if old god's bodies are like avatar of Sergaras (still powerful but becomes empty husk if the soul decides to move out) so by dead they mean their souls were like "well shit if we planned escape this long and fail i guess this escape plan wont work in time for Azeroth's awakening" and just abandoned their body, thus their physical body being dead but their power still existing in void realm or other weaker physical vessel to still scheme something? I know this is pure speculation but this is my small brain's best attempt at how to explain them being dead without lore fuckup.

OK but wat if the Titans just yeeted the majority of Y'shaarj remains into space and he's just out there floating around regenerating and waiting for revenge?

If an answer to the rhetorical question of "how can there be blood if the old gods are still there?" is wanted..... I gave it back then. And youtube deleted it. And they'll probably delete it again. But...... Firstly, the old gods seem to exist regardless of whether the physical bodies are still around. We saw that with the Sha, we saw that with C'thun's re-emergence in vanilla, we saw that with Yogg-Saron's voice and presence in Ulduar between legion and bfa. For N'Zoth we don't necessarily have any such.....but as you said; that dagger could have absorbed some of his essence to survive when that physical body we fight in the raid does not. For me personally, I don't think the old gods are only a flesh body....so defeating one of those flesh bodies isn't really ending the existence of that magical mind. This is where Xal'atath can be doing her half-truth routine. She can tell the nerubians that the old gods are dead, and those bodies which they were using are dead.....but they as magical entities still exist, and can be either manifested again, like Il'gynoth, or used to activate void magic. Meanwhile, the leftover blood from those bodies which they removed themselves out of can be collected and used. Also, the blood of Yogg-Saron was being used as saronite long before we defeated his temporary body there in the prison. They don't seem to need their blood to exist. If there is a fifth Old God, then who is it and when did it die? Is it K'tanth? Is there a Fifth old god that we haven't met yet, which we will discover in War Within? There is missing information for us to decide whether Xal'atath was using only half truths again.

12:10 PTSD. Disgraceful ending.

Regarding C'Thun, wasn't whatever is left of him absorbed by Cho'Gall via the Twilight's Hammer (the actual, physical mace) in Bastion of Twilight? And in the BFA - or Legion? I don't remember - opening quests, we see void activity inside of Ulduar. Yogg should absolutely still be alive.

What if, when xalatath awoke, got her body and the dark heart, went and consumed the other old god's essence like they did to her in the times of the black empire. We did defeat the old gods, weakened them, but she killed them and consumed them. This way she did not lie, but has not told us the whole truth... just like an old god would. This could be an answer.

The 5th was in Maraudon

The biggest issue with MMO stories is they just... can't have a big impact on the game. What's going to happen if the bad guys win? Well, they can't, because the game would be shut down if they did and that's not going to happen. They also can't be resolved, because marketing needs those player engagement numbers constant. I just feel terrible for the people who have to write these stories. They're probably bogged down in so much red tape from creative leads and marketing and game development is already hell as it is.

Wow lore enjoyers every 10 seconds since C'thun kill: Are Old Gods really dead?

You know, stranger eons and all that 😉

But in legion we saw the titans could shrink down to a pretty reasonable size so like… why didn’t they just do that and kill the old gods? I mean…

for nzoth they can revive him by saying it was a dream

Would be nice if they weren't let's just say we defeated them like the legion at one point until they are reformed and returned later in the expansion when alliance and horde are at each other's throats again.

So ripping out the Old Gods will kill Azeroth, but a giant sword stabbed into the core of the planet is no biggie? I am not sure how that works. Then again, I am not a WoW writer, so I might be missing something. I can see in a few expansions that they will make the Old Gods the good guys who were trying to save us from the REAL bad guy.

I don’t think they are. The lore is pretty clear, as beings of void, they can only truly die in the void.