I wonder why you are so late on micro inverters. There is also micro inverters from Deye, Hoymiles when each micro inverter can cover 4 PVs. Much faster and safer solution to deploy. Micro inverters can also be fitted inside the loft for easy replacement in the future. At is it is good that you are catching up.

Just wondering why you are using a hybrid inverter with Enphase micro inverters? Surely you could simply use an AC coupled system? Plus, they're cheaper and supposed to last longer. p.s. don't forget the 25 year warranty that Enphase offer.

At 15:30 their is a lie Modern pannels use bypas diodes, so a system with the right inverter (low start voltage) will keep your array running in the shade

@@neok1996 Yes, the system will keep on running, but in degraded state. The diode(s) will stop the entire production of the panel(s) involved. Optimizers and micro-inverters keep the production of said panels going.

You need to watch a few more KZfaq videos then. 🤦‍♂️

There are actually quite a lot of YT videos showing the application of the brackets .

What would be great is a tool designed specifically for grinding a channel in the back of the tiles…using a grinding wheel and the torque placed on the wrist, the dust/particles that fly off, as well as the mess it can make is not good…

And why is there no silver sarking under the tiles to get an extra waterproof layer and reflectivity ?

I saw a video where they installed them vertically on the ground, east/west facing. Snow can't accumulate on them, the ground can be used for other things and they appeared to be just as effective, if not better.

Or some mirror type panels fixed to the tiles underneath the solar panels 🤔

Can I put some reflective material on the group, e.g. tin foil/ mirror so to capture more? I have an detached garage and I can put this on test.

Nice idea for a follow-up video💡 how much more power can these panels generate if installed on a reflective surface (in the UK)

vertical bifacial panels use alot less space then normal panels vertical panels are cooled much better the normal panels

We've had ours for 5 years under the hot Australian sun, still good.

Good to hear. 8 years SolarEdge and 1 of 14 optimisers gone down in January. They don't support fully, no help to get it changed. Enphase for my future projects I think.

16 enphase invertors . No issues in 9 years

@@carlarrowsmith Over 150 solaredge optimizers installed over the last 9 years. Only one DOA but got replaced under warranty. Never had an inverter or optimizer failed. Have been using P300 to S440 and S500B optimizers.

@@veeerzes One installer was telling me he has installed 40 replacement optimisers this year so far. Not uncommon they said to me at SolarEdge support.

concrete dust is NOT considered toxic. anything is toxic if you eat/breath it too much,... even air. ;-)

@@drzavahercegbosnaponosna5974 Correct, he probably meant to say hazardous. And silicosis has been a thing for decades.

Don't know why Artisan say they don't like DC. When batteries are DC and you can wire DC straight into the battery without losing power going through an inverter!

They also talk as though its new technology, but Microinverters have been around for years and Enphase have been trying to eat into Solar Edge's market share in the US for as long as I can remember, and still failing. These 420-440w REA panels will produce way more in the summer with a standard string inverter and cheap Tigo optimisers (if needed) for shading and panel monitoring. If one Microinverter fails then Enphase will only pay a small contribution to replacing it, and this won't cover the cost of re-erecting the scaffolding to get back up there! Lots of scaremongering that shading on one panel can wipe the entire array out - utter rubbish !!! Obviously not heard of diode bypass!! If one panel is in shade it will not bring down the whole array, unless there was a solar eclipse!!!

Worse than that IQ7+ is 295W output with max 440w input. Would be interesting to see a comparison of the same panel layout using a string inverter vs micro-inverters like these to show in terms of generation through out the day the actual difference, could be the loss per panel of micro-inverters is outweighed by generating more, or if there is an issue with shading of panels which would effect the overall output from a string. There is a HUGE price difference to account for as well using MicroInverters.

since you are getting AC from the microinverters dont you need an inverter at the battery to change it to DC to charge the battery?

A 420 watt STC rated panel are going to be in the 300-330 watt NOCT range and that's going to be in real world perfect conditions so it really won't clip all that much. Getting a more expensive micro inverter probably isn't worth capturing an extra 25 watts a few times a year.

Forget about the peak power, its not relevant in the end. Electricity in those peak times is worthless anyway since everyone is producing more than enough. I recently installed 37 IQ8MC on my roof and they produced 12W per panel on a cloudy day when the panel was completely covered with snow. Duration of production is key, not peak power.

That's kind of terrible, my 445W south-facing bifacial panels output 500-510W at noon when it's 5°C, they eventually get hot and settle around 470-480 after 20 minutes. Granted I have them mounted 2 meters high with nothing underneath but on 24°C days they output 420W for 3 hours straight. They run on an AP-System EZ-1M, first Watt at 5:45, last watt at 20:15 and that's with no view of the sun after 14:30. If you're selling electricity to the utilities, I would seriously consider swapping the inverters. If you're only running your home and a battery (no EV charging), it's not going to make a difference.

@@mresch3950 Rubbish. Peak power is very important - if you have batteries, you are charging them. If you are using multiple heavy loads - hot water tank, oven, you need 6kW minimum. "everyone is producing more than enough". On what planet? You recently wasted how much on 37 micro inverters? Care to tell us? What was the increase in output? Oh wait, you don't mention that. Nor do the manufacturers! Where are the videos from the manufacturers, PROVING an increase in output, and an increase in output that justifies the cost of the micro inverters?

Sounds like you have a great system on your hands! Hopefully, we are going to keep installing these from now on.

As a fellow installer the micro inverters are way better and more practical. Optimizer (dc) systems only produce what the worst panels is. Micros make every panel produce individually

I have a new build. Would you recommend installing a roof with solar, integrated set up or solar tiles(UK)? I like this system.

Can you talk about the burden involved in getting the micro inverter fixed? Also, do you have any information on how the micro inverters may have reduced the energy available, e.g. by having a minimum activation power or through inefficiency? I would have thought it would be better to have the individual inverters inside the loft so they are easier to access, but maybe that creates new problems.

@@hamcheese9169 I thought optimizers are exactly for used for the reason to bypass the worst performing panel

Yes they can be, it's just a case of how you get the cables through the roof, while maintaining water tightness.

Nah. For stationary shadow like chimneys or higher roofs perhaps. But for diffuse shadows like rustling leaves solely relying on bypass diodes is inferior to micro inverters or optimizers. Not to forget that once you have a system at varying gradients, string inverters can start struggling ( SMA puts this point at +- >15degrees).

​@@jacobherrie6286It depends on how much diffuse shadow is present on the panels, the MPPT will take the best solution if using the bypass diodes or not, the performance difference shouldn't be particularly higher to be worth it, optimizers and micro inverters add cost and possibly maintenance in a difficult to reach position.

Those diodes works in very specific configuration and are very far from magic you try to portrait here. Those diodes are there for single reason - if one (or more) cell(s) will fail, then bypass diode will bypass, say third of the panel. usually cells are arranged in longer string - there and back, so two strings. Those diodes have nothing to do with shading - it may help, but it is unlikely, as shading does not drop voltage enough to get diode into bypass, so current will drop. Panel performance can be easiest described as voltage is close to constant and current changes by amount of light. So, no diode does absolutely nothing for shading. Your idea is wrong and should take lesson in electronics and physics, as you clearly lacking in both.

@@WizardNumberNext the voltage of the solar array is of course regulated by the MPPT or it wouldn't be able to find the maximum power point.

@@WizardNumberNext there has been a number of tests that shows very little difference with shading with or without optimizers. Some might be at 3% gain with optimizers, that's not worth it, and I bet that they will fail before the panels does. Keep it simple, use string inverter instead is my tip. And what I have done😎

I just bought IQ7A inverters for £95 each delivered.

You can get 350w micro Inverters for about 33 pounds each from Taobao in China. Works well.

@@nnnnn8173 What does "works well" mean? Do they give you more electricity? Are they worth an extra 200W of solar panel (£60 for a 400W panel in the UK at August 2024)? No, of course they aren't. They are a huge con, multiple electronic devices that have no fans and are behind incredibly hot panels during the Summer, what if one goes wrong on your roof? £2,000 for scaffolding just to change one over. A solar panel is far less likely to stop working than a micro inverter. They are such a waste of money. Where is the advantage in having them?

Yes, exactly. ❤

This right here is why I prefer string inverters combined with generic/non-vendor lock/non-communication optimizers, with at most a parallel optimizer reporting system running. Easiest way to ensure that in the best case scenario, I'll just hop up and disconnect the panel and optimizer and replace them, or worst case, I leave them up as long as rest of the string continues to operate normally and the failed optimizers or panels pose no safety (electrical or fire) or production risk.

​@@shahzebatiq1what brand would that be? I wanted to go for Tigo, mainly for optimization, but maybe use also the other features

i bet they are not too difficult to repair ..........probably the capacitors that go first

Exactly. Putting a box of electronics behind a solar panel on a roof, where the panel gets incredibly hot in the Summer, and you have one of these devices for each panel, is the stupidest idea ever - especially because they DON'T WORK. They don't increase power output by any measurable amount, otherwise there would be numerous videos showing a before and after, which prove this. Why aren't these videos on KZfaq?

Add in sales people with targets to meet & it’s a nightmare

@@hughmarcus1 my folks had a pushy salesman round the house. He generated a proposal on opensolar; for a system cost of £13k they could expect a £600k saving over the next 30 years 😂. He also had an allowance to give "preferred" customers another 10% off but that discount just happened to be expiring the following day.

Mirror finish roof tiles/slates under PV are the future😂

The reverse is true. You need to cool the back of the panels in warmer places as they lose efficiency when warm.

@@hughmarcus1 Is peak summer generation more valuable than winter generation? Self-consumption gives a better return, I believe - so winter probably pays better (so long as the configuration actually helps with this scenario)

@hughM9 Your wrong! If you increase the % of the generation of the reverse side by as little as 20%, it would outweigh the efficiency reduction. Example... 1/3 extra hourly generation would make the 0.32% lower efficiency per 1°c higher heat (over 25°c), even at 40°c, panels are still 95% efficient. Basically, increasing 33% of reverse facing faces, would only reduce generation by maximum of 5%! Do your own calculations, then reply when you realise I'm right.

Fewer tea breaks in Oz.

I suspect Australian roofs are less steep, fewer working at height restrictions than the English. Installs on tin roof are easier and faster than on tiles. That said, we Aussies are known for working harder and more productively than many others.

Fitting to a metal roof is much, much quicker than installing on a tiled roof. Each tile where an anchor sites needs to be properly weatherproofed. The time this takes can vary depending on whether the tile is a plain tile, profiled tile (as in the video) or slate. Plain tiles are the quickest by use of a hook stop, concrete profiled tiles require grinding out which takes a bit longer and slates require cutting and flashing which takes the longest of all. If not done properly for just one fixing, then you have a leak. In addition if the rafter width is 35mm or under (which is common in UK houses built using trusses) then they require reinforcement which adds even more time.

I can confirm that a team of 3 ( 2 roofers and 1 sparky ) installed 2 complete systems per 8 hour day in Adelaide Australia, we do have an advantage of better weather 🙂. The majority of installations were to tiled roofs, and were identical installations with no variations offered by an electrical retailer for a fixed price...

I had a "4kw system" installed under the FIT scheme in 2014. Comprises 16 Solarworld SW250s with Enphase M215 microinverters. Works exceedingly well. A crew of three installed it within 2.5 hours. Four other teams from the same company did much the same and in the same time frame (one was a neighbour who had his installed the same day. The other three installed theirs on my recommendation: my son and two friends. Not one of our microinverters has ever failed. There's been no perceptible degradation over time. Output on our 4kw system has varied from 4.7 to 4.9 megawatts per year. Our consumption has varied, not least do to some construction work and Covid, so it has fluctuated from 4.0 to 5.7 megawatts per year. ROI was seven years: no point in pursuing mis-selling claims with that kind of efficiency. Now in retirement. I'm putting additional panels on our flat-roofed EPDM-covered outbuildings in an EW orientation (with a low inclination due to coastal winds in Thanet which can reach 100mph): this time we will add battery storage: ROI will be 4 years, thanks to Octopus Energy's green tariffs and the fact that the lion's share of our electricity costs are already dealt with by the existing system. Thereafter it will just be a source of profit: not huge but significant and dependable. If our DNO would permit it, I'd do much more, just as commercial firms around us have done, including a firm of accountants with over a hundred panels, a local fitness centre with about the same, our Sainsburys with several hundred, farmers who have covered their barns and houses, a railway maintenance yard with well over a thousand, and so forth. So to what extent are the house builders doing their bit? Don't make me laugh: Some only put up one or two panels on a new house. Others really push the boat out and add three or four. But every new property in some of these developments has a EV charging point. New commercial buildings are putting in sod all. It is scandalous. About time the new Government requires all new buildings to max out the full potential of their roofs to support green energy. One installer, btw, told me that the time it takes to connect a solar panel to a microinverter is about one minute. I'd say that was an exaggeration: From what I've seen, I think it takes about two minutes, including mounting the microinverter itself.

best practice is outside these days.

@@narrowboatlongpod4176 but lithium batteries prefer the temperatures humans like. 10-30C. They throttle power below 0C and high temperatures damage them. Therefore a garage or utility room is better for the battery life

You are right, but new PAS specifications limit the areas inside where people should be installing now. Such as lofts, under the stairs in cupboards, habitable rooms, emergency exits etc etc. Ideal place is in a garage really.

​@@spjelectrical2940I'd be interested to know if an LFP battery system has ever caught fire. Not scooters or EV bikes using the standard lithium cobalt manganese chemistry. But a LFP battery fire. And more than just the electrics going "pfft" and a bit of burnt plastic. Ie. TVs are electric but we don't put them outside!

Glad we could help you understand more about solar and any differences that you needed to learn about!

To be honest the advantage is minimal if installed on a roof. The less light and reflection comes from the back the smaller the gains.

@@Felix-st2ue It is useless installing bifcial panels, flushmount to a roof. But the installer makes more money.

Glad you enjoyed it

Most metal grinding disks clog up when used on aluminium. Tungsten carbide tipped circular saws work well though!

@@robinbennett5994 Your right most do but there are some specifically for aluminium, in my experience the problem with carbide tipped saws in hand held devices is that they can kick back and can be dangerous but fine in a bench mounted saw, I owned a business for 25 years cutting aluminium extrusions.

27 pence........;)

It's pretty hard to say, as there's a fairly wide spread of panel prices, and the bifacial panels aren't the most expensive ones. However the cheapest panels are about £57, and the cheapest bifacial panels are about £71 - so you could say they're 20% more, which matches that performance boost. However the panels are the cheapest part of the install. Those micro-inverters are £175 each, the batteries are a few thousand and the scaffolding and labour add a fair bit too.

Yes, but did the micro inverters improve the power output, and if so, by how much, and how much is that worth in money, versus the cost of the pointless micro inverters?

It sure is - and it will cost £2,000 or more in 2024...

Hear, hear. All solar panels have had bypass diodes since the 1980s. Micro inverters and optimisers are a complete con and a waste of money, and one more thing to go wrong on your roof, which will cost you a fortune to get fixed, as you will need scaffolding again.

How can you say that when they have their own evidence on the performance? I had an install with Heatable just after Christmas and their quote was about the same (sometimes cheaper) but for better kit. If someone offers you a 2012 Mondeo or a 2020 7 Series for less than £100 more, I know which one I’m picking 😂

@@David-ww5bs Hmm, who to trust. The product manufacturer's own statements or a 3rd party selling the product? Yes, that's a difficult one indeed. Note: I'm not saying there won't be additional generation, what I am say though is these things are intended to be mounted in such a way that a decent amount of light gets to the underside. For installations that use surface reflection that surface needs a decent albedo. Dark tiled roof does not. One of the most BS installations I've seen with bifacials, photos provided to me by a friend that is an installer, was recessed into the roof for a sleek flush fitting appearance with a black tray. Claims of extra generation were made there too with simple reference to the maximum additional production figure from the manufacturer. Naturally the installation had 0% chance of ever doing it. The end users usually have no way to verify that the extra production is actually happening and go blissfully unaware. Have you checked your installation by sliding black card under the panels and noting the expected drop in production? I'm guessing not...

@@retrozmachine1189 Yes, I do appreciate they were probably designed for better environments than my slate roof, but Range Rovers being designed for rough terrain doesn’t stop them being the most common 4X4 in London. Granted, bi-facials might not be built for the common domestic roof but my roof is an East/West split and I do believe it’s the bi-facial panels that allow me to pick up more light as the sun moves round in the day. I must add, if they were coming out at £,000s more then I may not be as convinced but if I can have additional cells on the back for the same price as your standard Jinkos and Trinas, then my argument is simply - why not?

@@David-ww5bs TANSTAAFL.

Single panels can fail, then everything might go down. Atleast with micros, you know which exact one is down.

If one goes down, you're down 1 panel / inverter. If a panel fails on a string inverter, you might be just out the panel, or you might be out the string. Also, you might not know where the fault is. Also, I like that it's 240VAC vs 500VDC. A lot safer in my opinion. I've DIY'd 2 enphase 10kw installs, and it's definitely more expensive, but the ease / data is awesome. Their tech support was great as well.

in UK you will get 60-70% of rated peak power output of panel 450W will give you 270W-315W MAX typical power whole year round Microinverter will live quite long Enphase IQ8A have 25 years warranty Be advised most microinverters are dying of too high voltage, not due age or random dying. I have fitted hundreds myself. I have seen exactly 5 dead. One random. 4 died of too high voltage If you have no shading, then skip micros, unless you want to avoid DC. Be advised DC should be avoided only because of DC arc is much harder to stop DC shock is much better, then what they show. I have got over 700V on both hands (plus on one hand, minus on other) from Live panels on roof. It was OK, not particularly fun, but definitely I wasn't screaming. My boss wouldn't know, ig I haven't told him and he was standing right behind me. I do not recommend to test it yourself tough - it is not fun.

@@fgbhrl4907 NOT TRUE One panel going down in string means, bypass diodes are taking over and you are losing one panel. I have seen it with microinverter and panel dropped 1/3 of its rated power.

@@WizardNumberNext I can tell you from real world experience on my own home, that I lost a string (out of 3) because a panel failed. The junction box ended up melting, and the entire string went offline. With a string system without optimizers, I didn't know that the string had gone offline, other than I was generating less than I was expecting. It happened in the winter, so I didn't immediately put two and two together. Probably took 6 months to really notice something was happening.

Have you ever seen a datasheet for the REA Fusion 2 panels?🤔

well the idea is you sell the power back to the grid during times you don't need all of it, to get credit on your bill in the winter

Design for winter, so more panels (normal panels will do in winter and are 'cheap'). Size your inverter for spring/autumn (max out in summer). With grid capacity as it is, and more people installing solar, selling back to the grid will become less attractive. The cost driver for inverters is capacity, skip all the additions for panel optimization (as they are expensive and will not give sufficient return on investment during winter). You will end up with an installation using more space for the same capacity, but a more level power production over the seasons. And the savings on inverter and optimization will pay for the additional panels.

Thanks! Whilst they do look wide, they do well at keeping the birds away.

What's the bird protection link or name pls

I have heard about this in a few comments now.🤔

And in this install - 'later and earlier in the year' when the shading was supposed to occur, those trees wouldn't be in leaf.

Glad you enjoyed the video!

They might only output 349w but how often in the UK would PV's generate at it's full power, plus you'll never have to worry about panel degradation over time.

@@Mavisto2 no complaints here, but I seen ppl with 440w panels and ask why production so low in strong sun.

Snake oil.

Don't expect a reply from Artisan. The guy isn't the sharpest tool in the box. So everything you've written will go completely over his head. The REA Fusion 2 panels are £500 each according to Heatable's website. That's some mark-up and very attractive to Artisan.

​@@VinoVeritas_wow, you've seriously got an issue with Artisan😅. Let it go fella, this isn't the only channel on KZfaq.

@@mikeypc3592 Someone needs to call his BS out, whilst you carry on rimming his crack.

Enphase microinverters have a 25 year warranty I believe, I've had them for many years but as someone above said 10 years and more is common, they are rock solid, if it ain't broke, don't fix it as they say! I just re-read what you said, you've got a string setup for one setup and microinverters for the others, I still wouldn't mess with it if its all working. The downside to string arrays is the larger inverter might fail and take them all out (that string I mean), but if its working I'd leave it that way.

Yes, but think of the huge markup for the installers! Which is ALL this is about. It took me over six months of constant research to learn enough about solar panels, inverters and so on, to have any confidence when I bought my system. The public can't be expected to learn all of this stuff, and it's up to us, who already have working solar systems, to tell them what is and isn't snake oil. THIS IS SNAKE OIL.

👍

Good luck!