Ask Ian: Procurement Then & Now (and Wartime vs Peacetime)

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Forgotten Weapons

Forgotten Weapons

2 жыл бұрын

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Asked by Charles on Patreon:
"I'd love to hear you do a deep dive on the commissioning and procurement process of the Chauchat compared to the FAMAS or the HK416F (or the STEN and the L85, PPSh41 and the AK-12 etc). The specific question to answer would be: 'why does defense procurement take so much longer and cost so much more today than it did in the first half of the C20th when national defense was a far more pressing concern?'"
I think there is a misunderstanding in the core question, because small arms procurement a century ago was every bit as complex and costly as procurement today. In fact, trial a hundred years ago often involved many more type of guns, because submissions were taken from individual inventors with the expectation that a winning design would be produced by a national armory. As such, submissions did not have to be limited to companies capable of mass production.
What does make a big difference in procurement is the different attitudes between wartime and peacetime. Both he Chauchat and Sten were adopted during wars, as types of arms that were deemed immediately essential. As such, the standards for adoption were relaxed from "what is the best thing we can develop for out military" to a much more short-term "what will fulfill this specific need as quickly as possible". In both cases, the resulting guns did the job that was needed, but the abbreviated development process resulted in significant flaws that led the guns to be quickly replaced after the war was over (the Chauchat by the Chatellerault 24/29 and the Sten by the Sterling).
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Пікірлер: 314
@mcbonkytron8411
@mcbonkytron8411 2 жыл бұрын
I really appreciate the change in format to these bite-sized QnA videos. While there isn’t anything inherently wrong with 1+ hour QnAs. The shorter ones are easier to consume as a whole.
@eloiseharbeson2483
@eloiseharbeson2483 2 жыл бұрын
My favorite aspects of the Q&A's are the time stamps on the questions. I only follow the questions that interest me. Exactly why I don't watch Karl's InrangeTV Q&A's.
@Spetsnazty
@Spetsnazty 2 жыл бұрын
@@eloiseharbeson2483 well that and Karl is insufferable.
@eloiseharbeson2483
@eloiseharbeson2483 2 жыл бұрын
@@Spetsnazty not really, but having to watch the whole thing to find out if there is anything of interest to me is a waste of the little time I have left.
@joshmaddy007
@joshmaddy007 2 жыл бұрын
I concur - also I like the title letting me know exactly what's in the video as well which makes me think I probably missed good stuff by passing on longer videos not knowing what I'd find inside.
@laurisikio
@laurisikio 2 жыл бұрын
I have not watched a single one or even parts of Ian's normal Q&A videos, but I have now seen both of these new short videos with great enthusiasm.
@TomSedgman
@TomSedgman 2 жыл бұрын
L85: all of the problems of a wartime build, without the war
@madrenwillims4391
@madrenwillims4391 2 жыл бұрын
Nah I’d take a sten over the original La85
@JohnHughesChampigny
@JohnHughesChampigny 2 жыл бұрын
not really. in a war they would have just taken the AR-18 and not done all the bikeshedding that was done to the whole SA80 project
@kalliste23
@kalliste23 2 жыл бұрын
The design team knew it was piece of junk, I talked to one of them at the time it was being developed. The L85A2/3 are quite useable though.
@cnb1971
@cnb1971 2 жыл бұрын
Personally I never had any problems or real complaints with the L85 A1. Used one from 95 until the A2 came in. Extremely accurate, well balanced , you just needed to keep on top of it.
@kalliste23
@kalliste23 2 жыл бұрын
@@cnb1971 they were way easier to shoot than an L1A1, obviously. The L85A1 was poorly made and bits fell off it. The A2 upped the game in quality of components and assembly, fixed some of the worst mistakes. It's too heavy for what it is being really the main issue with it the final analysis. Bullpups are always a compromise with ergonomics.
@extramild1
@extramild1 2 жыл бұрын
“Fast, Cheap or Good? Pick Two.” is a maxim used in the project management world to reference the Iron Triangle. In the triangle, “cheap” references cost, “fast” references time to deliver, and “good” references features and quality (aka scope). This never changes.
@darthhodges
@darthhodges 2 жыл бұрын
The Thompson vs the M3 Grease Gun is another good example. The Thompson was iterated on for 2 decades before WW2 started and the first thing they wanted when we realized we would be involved was a cheaper version. Then we developed the M3 to fill the same need for a tiny fraction of the cost with the M3A1 being simpler still. The Thompson is a superior firearm in terms of accuracy (especially pre-war models) and had some nice safety features the M3 does not. But in the kind of war WW2 was cheap and available beat superior but hard to get where you need it.
@55vma
@55vma 2 жыл бұрын
Blish block 🇦🇺🐨🇦🇺
@ArcturusOTE
@ArcturusOTE 2 жыл бұрын
@@55vma Tbh the blish lock was basically a angled dropper delayed blowback
@am17frans
@am17frans 2 жыл бұрын
Wartime also tend to be when there is money to spend, nut no time. In peace, there is usally more time to refine and tinker, but less money to throw at it.
@josiahgibson6373
@josiahgibson6373 2 жыл бұрын
Also, wartime tends to make elected goverment officials look for quick military success. Peacetime procurement often has elected officials worrying about the budget, details about where the money goes, and the political outcome, ie: Make sure the money is spent employing the right people at the right factories in the right regions owned by the right people.
@genericpersonx333
@genericpersonx333 2 жыл бұрын
Also, wartime lays bare the actual needs of battle and war, as opposed to peacetime where a lot of people are making decisions based on speculation about the needs of war or even trying to create new paradigms because they think they can change war by their chosen weaponry. A lot of time is spent by procurement operatives arguing over what they think will be useful, as opposed to a clear list of what is clearly useful.
@MadProphet
@MadProphet 2 жыл бұрын
Also, I have an opinion as well.
@alekseykuleshov111
@alekseykuleshov111 2 жыл бұрын
Those Ask Ian short videos are very good. Almost never watched long versions, but this ones are good to go
@danielburgess7785
@danielburgess7785 2 жыл бұрын
I watch both, however will scroll through the questions to ones that interest me.
@okie1011
@okie1011 2 жыл бұрын
The other classic of procurement is the cost death loop: “x is too expensive so we’re gonna reduce procurement” which raises the cost per unit more, so more get cut, repeat until you get outright cancellation or a handful of what amount to production prototypes
@davidcox3076
@davidcox3076 2 жыл бұрын
Great observation. Oh, you only want 50 units instead of 5,000? Bye-bye economies of scale.
@OrtadragoonX
@OrtadragoonX 14 күн бұрын
B-2 Spirit in a nutshell.
@avp5964
@avp5964 2 жыл бұрын
Really prefer this take on Q and A. Thanks again Ian
@Warspite03
@Warspite03 2 жыл бұрын
Best example of rapid government procurement of early 20th century has to go to the American Enfield Rifles. Even now the idea of having three factories churning out near identical products so quickly is impressive. That the rifle held up well on the battlefield is a bonus.
@DBCisco
@DBCisco 2 жыл бұрын
The M1 Carbine was massively produced by several companies.
@alexsis1778
@alexsis1778 2 жыл бұрын
That was one of the real perks of the national armory system at the time. The armories were mostly focused on both development of weapons and the means to produce them, not so much actually making the guns themselves. So the US gov would pick a gun and then whoever the designer was would work with the armories to determine what was needed for production as they developed the tooling for the gun. Then the armory would just make duplicate copies of that tooling for the other factories and provide oversight to make sure they were all making things to the right specs.
@PerunAU
@PerunAU 2 жыл бұрын
This brought a real smile to my face. Thanks for covering this topic. The distinction between a process aimed at delivering a best fit, best value for money, developed solution that best delivers a target capability vs. a process aimed at delivering a capability quickly and practically is particularly important. Faced with wartime imperatives, I'm convinced that most procurement agencies out there could run processes much faster than they currently do. Another point, which is perhaps more applicable to major platforms rather than small arms (not that i'm disparaging developments in small arms technology), is that the complexity of the platforms themselves has dramatically increased. During WW1 small groups of eccentrics could totally buy or borrow an engine and design an aircraft and try to flog it to interested parties to make a buck. A few blokes in a garage with a borrowed engine are not going to be able to design a 5th Generation fighter, and so development and procurement cycles change to reflect that.
@parrotraiser6541
@parrotraiser6541 2 жыл бұрын
Sometimes, as with the Sten, an unpredicted wartime requirement shows up. The Sten was essentially disposable, something paratroopers could use to defend their LZ until they could get their "real" weapons deployed, then leave behind for partisans to collect. Any weapon developed in peacetime is supposed to be durable, to keep down defence replacement budgets. Look at the difference between pre-war built Spitfires and wartime production ones.
@anthonyburke5656
@anthonyburke5656 2 жыл бұрын
The sad thing is that back then and now, it’s the same, corruption and political expediency tend to over rule efficiency, effectiveness and cost effectiveness. Many years ago I was part of a team charged with selecting a sniper system, we trialled weapons from all over the world, evaluated the weapons empirically, took the weapons into the field, trialled them our selves, gave them to acknowledged experts to trial, went to users already using them and talked to them. We drew up a list of candidate systems, ranked them, we had 24 candidates rated 1 to 24 in rank of preference. The “bean counters” and “politicians” (both those in uniform and those in suits) chose the system numbered 12th in preference for purchase. What do you think that decision told the people using the system? The whole culture of sniping changed within 12 years, the numbers of personnel who elected discharge from the specialty was enormous, the loss of the “corporate” knowledge and skill was and is still irreplaceable. Even worse, the quality of inductees into the skill suffered a dramatic down turn, those with brains realised their lives and skills were way down the priority, the system chosen was not bad, but plainly sub standard compared to what was on offer. The difference in price for all the purchases would have been spent in the training of 1 operator. The ex operators who in old times were a valuable source of new recruits, stopped counselling kids to enlist and the quality of enlistments dropped.
@tarmaque
@tarmaque 2 жыл бұрын
Many years ago I worked for a franchise (Doesn't matter which one. Wasn't fast food.) The owners actually owned 6 locations and they were new in the business. Of the 6, only ours was making money. Probably this was because only ours had a competent manager. The rest of them were mostly relatives of the owners, who were all pretty incompetent. One day, the owners hired an outside manager to run all 6 locations, who came in to basically tell us all how we were doing it wrong. She made us change most of what our (competent) manager had us doing. We started losing money, and within six months they closed our location. Who was the outside manager? A friend of the owner's from college.
@owen368
@owen368 2 жыл бұрын
Have worked in quite a range of industries and management time and again is the weak spot, managers with no knowledge of the industry there in running things via some business model with no idea of the issues involved.
@erloriel
@erloriel 2 жыл бұрын
@@owen368 May I introduce you to ALL THE GERMAN MINISTERS OF DEFENCE?! Sorry, but the fact that every single one of the last three had to literally be taught the ranks, AFTER they got the job, speaks volumes about the power of competence vs the power of connections.
@sthenzel
@sthenzel 2 жыл бұрын
@@erloriel There where two decent ones before, one was kind of a bean counter (Scholz) who was ridiculed for never having gone through mandatory military service but who was good with numbers and a logical thinker, the other (Guttenberg) was relatively well-received among the troops (even visited the frontlines in Afghanistan 7 times), did much work on plans for a deep resctructuring to save money and raise military efficiency, then fell over his not so well done dissertation papers. His successor mostly carried on with his plans, but didn´t succeed in time, after that one things went downhill.
@AllAboutSurvival
@AllAboutSurvival 2 жыл бұрын
Wow, Ian! You are really impressive. I never thought I’d understand these kinds of stuff by just watching your video. Really enjoyed this Q & A content of yours 👌🏼
@daetslovactmandcarry6999
@daetslovactmandcarry6999 2 жыл бұрын
11:21 _"The L85 is similar once you get past all of the fixing that they had to do to it."_ Which was everything.
@lukepapapetrou1234
@lukepapapetrou1234 2 жыл бұрын
Love this new style of Q&A. I love the usual 1hr long ones, I just feel that the new style gives you a chance to go more in depth and I always wanted that.
@petesheppard1709
@petesheppard1709 2 жыл бұрын
This format of more detailed answers is really informative and enjoyable; a nice complement to the rapid fire Q&A. Thanks!
@swelch2661
@swelch2661 2 жыл бұрын
Hi Ian great video. I really love your Q&A videos and I'm pretty sure I've played through each one at least 5 times, I almost always have them going and either sit and watch or have it in the background. Its my favorite long form content on KZfaq. The detail in these new focused Q&A is wonderful and I was wondering if you could make a playlist specifically with this type of Q&A to make them easy to autoplay together. Also Say Hi to Carl for me, I love your guys Duo Q&As too!!
@bennettmay9283
@bennettmay9283 2 жыл бұрын
I think the M14 EBR program is another great example of rushed wartime procurement. The US did not have a standard 7.62 DMR and was suddenly dealing with 500+ meter engagements in Afghanistan. What do they do? Dust off the Cold War era M14 battle rifles and attempt to modernize them.
@MrTAGGER88
@MrTAGGER88 2 жыл бұрын
Excellent video format with some absolutely kick ass questions. Please don't stop the series anytime soon
@flyingwondercat739
@flyingwondercat739 2 жыл бұрын
I love these new video formats, hope you're enjoying making them Ian :)
@mainer2123
@mainer2123 2 жыл бұрын
I really enjoy this one question format. The in-depth answers are very informative.
@GunRoastShorts
@GunRoastShorts 2 жыл бұрын
You're one of my favorite people to watch on here. I appreciate your work thank you so much for doing what you enjoy. Also, I hope to meet you someday just a simple hello to you sir would be cool.
@ForgottenWeapons
@ForgottenWeapons 2 жыл бұрын
I appreciate that!
@johndavies6253
@johndavies6253 2 жыл бұрын
I’m really enjoying these videos Ian, thank you for taking the time to prepare them and giving us your insight, really interesting!
@pmgn8444
@pmgn8444 2 жыл бұрын
Peace-time vs war-time - the amount of bureaucracy changes. A friend was a US Army civilian employee before, during, and after the 1st Gulf War. He said before and after the war, it took 20 plus signatures to get anything done. During the war, it took on about 4 or 5, one of which was his.
@robertoservadei4766
@robertoservadei4766 2 жыл бұрын
I think this new Q&A format is brilliant!
@acidtreat101
@acidtreat101 2 жыл бұрын
I like this new format which lets you get into more detail. Was getting a bit bored with the old Q&As tbh. Kept hearing the same questions over and over. This is a nice change.
@totallyaploy1824
@totallyaploy1824 2 жыл бұрын
I greatly enjoy this style of video, please make more of them.
@christopherbowen1836
@christopherbowen1836 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks! As a government contracts lawyer, I found this really interesting. I shared it on LinkedIn, so we’ll see if my colleagues agree.
@dcspooky6903
@dcspooky6903 2 жыл бұрын
Very much like this Q&A format Ian.
@brian5832
@brian5832 2 жыл бұрын
I enjoy these. It's incredibly interesting and adds variety.
@codyopperman5930
@codyopperman5930 2 жыл бұрын
"We basically wanted to make sure you weren't 3 guys in a shed"
@randomnobodovsky3692
@randomnobodovsky3692 2 жыл бұрын
As if bigger things weren't started by less than three guys even without a shed. :-)
@DesertMav
@DesertMav 2 жыл бұрын
This is a great format for the Q&A videos.
@johncassidy8604
@johncassidy8604 2 жыл бұрын
Nice format. Looking forward to more of this.
@Raptor747
@Raptor747 2 жыл бұрын
I'm reminded of the difference between the Sten and the M1 Garand when it comes to peacetime versus wartime procurement. The Sten was almost exactly what it needed to be--a very cheap, easily mass-produced submachinegun that would work well enough in the situations/threaters it was reasonably likely to find itself in, with ergonomics that weren't unbearable. The Sten's critical flaw was its reliability, stemming largely from its double-stack-single-feed magazine; even so, the need for SMGs was so great and the Sten's other qualities so important that it was deemed an acceptable tradeoff. Still, those reliability problems--for an SMG, no less--were not at all welcome and garnered some real infamy. The M1 Garand, meanwhile, spent years in development and refinement, got its kinks worked out before mass production, and was turned into a highly reliable, highly capable, and pretty simple/easily produced semi-auto rifle that proved to be so good that it's still a respectable rifle even in modern combat (albeit outclassed for obvious reasons). The standard-issue rifle that eventually replaced it--the M14--was really not very different beyond being fed from a detachable box magazine and having a borderline unusuable full-auto setting. It wasn't until the M16 that the standard-issue US rifle changed substantially, and that the US wasn't scrambling to replace its M1 Garands for so long is a testament to how good it was. But still, the strengths and flaws of rushed wartime procurement make themselves known through so many examples. The Chauchat was adequate at a time when France needed more automatic rifles than it ever imagined producing as fast as possible...but the cost was that it used a very awkward magazine that was very prone to getting dirt/mud/dust inside of it, the ergonomics of the gun were absolutely terrible, the bipod was mounted in the worst possible spot, and the recoil made shooting it very awkward. Nevertheless, it entered service in large numbers in 1915, whereas the far better BAR only came in well into 1918. And then there is the worst of both worlds in French procurement in the years leading up to, during, and after WW1 all the way to the start of WW2, where the French moved way too slowly and conservatively during peacetime, then had to scramble and use outdated and highly flawed existing designs in wartime, and then let its procurement fall by the wayside in the peace that followed, only to do the same thing again come WW2...resulting in the French still relying on designs in WW2 that were inferior and outdated by the start of WW1. While the US rightfully gets dunked on for fielding the BAR again in WW2 in a configuration that was overall worse than its WW1 configuration, it at least compensated by fielding absolute bangers like the M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, Thompson (inefficient but still highly capable and very reliable), its various machine guns, and the superb M1911, alongside the venerable Springfield rifle earlier in the war.
@JohnHughesChampigny
@JohnHughesChampigny 2 жыл бұрын
It's true that the French missed out on being able to field a self-loading rifle (by months!) but their new bolt action rifle was one of the best, and the FM24/29 was a way better light machine gun than the BAR.
@davidsachs4883
@davidsachs4883 2 жыл бұрын
I like these more detailed one question videos better then the monthly, long, many question videos
@BatCaveOz
@BatCaveOz 2 жыл бұрын
Ian - "Blimey, we could use some of those" Me - 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@dragunovavintovka4047
@dragunovavintovka4047 2 жыл бұрын
Excellent video. Love it!
@zedsdeadbaby
@zedsdeadbaby 2 жыл бұрын
This format is really cool. You're a good presenter
@Spetsnazty
@Spetsnazty 2 жыл бұрын
Has France ever had a peacetime?
@Embassy_of_Jupiter
@Embassy_of_Jupiter 2 жыл бұрын
No they are in perpetual state of civil war, they just have periods of ceasefire
@mathis.docquier
@mathis.docquier 2 жыл бұрын
@@Embassy_of_Jupiter i am french and agree with this statement
@macdeath69
@macdeath69 2 жыл бұрын
oui, à l'heure de l'apéro...
@sebathadah1559
@sebathadah1559 2 жыл бұрын
Once upon a time when they were Catholic....
@jesper509
@jesper509 2 жыл бұрын
Sweden and Denmark still have the record as longest time at war with each other.
@mattsgrungy
@mattsgrungy 2 жыл бұрын
I'm really enjoying these deeper dive answers to some questions, great little format I think. That British accent though, that was..... something else.....
@Sim.Crawford
@Sim.Crawford 2 жыл бұрын
Costing: You like it: Quote unit cost of the last platform/tranche you buy. You don't like it (or have papers to sell) divide total program cost including acquisition, associated infrastructure and/or support vehicles, training equipment, spares, contractor support for x years etc and divide by units.
@seanflorian4653
@seanflorian4653 2 жыл бұрын
I like this style of q&a
@Simon_Nonymous
@Simon_Nonymous 2 жыл бұрын
A good format - and as always, Ian will actually ask the question that should have been asked, but thanks to the Patreon for getting the ball rolling, as essentially it is a good question. Just one question or point re the STEN being brought in as Germany had used SMGs in the Battle of France; was it more a case of wanting arms then and there to replace the more costly rifles and MGs lost in the retreat from France as cheaply and as quickly as possible? My quick research suggests the STEN cost less than half of a rifle in money terms, and could be knocked up it any bicycle repair shop where someone could weld, ie a lot quicker than a rifle. And Ian - if you need some English accent coaching, please do contact me :-)
@awol354
@awol354 11 ай бұрын
I always admired the Elbonuan procurement process. Since mud is prevalent and in abundance nationwide, the process is so simple.
@junahn1907
@junahn1907 2 жыл бұрын
I would love to see a roundtable discussion with Ian, Henry (of 9 Hole Reviews), and Perun on the subject of procurement.
@MrSqu1nty
@MrSqu1nty 2 жыл бұрын
I'll miss the long version. Used to do my hobbies while listening and occasionally looking. That said, I think this will do better for you. Keep on doing this as long as it is satisfying, as long as it is fun, and as long as it makes you smile and snigger while pulling a trigger. And know you will be missed when you stop. \m/
@usagiyojimbo5944
@usagiyojimbo5944 2 жыл бұрын
you should have done this format since, like, forever. i like it very much.
@mpetersen6
@mpetersen6 2 жыл бұрын
When it comes to weapons procurement the Sten has to be the exception that proves the rule.
@joelb8653
@joelb8653 2 жыл бұрын
During wartime it's "field it then fix it".
@arthurthedented
@arthurthedented 2 жыл бұрын
Another thing you've made clear in other videos is that the rate of evolution/improvement in firearms has slowed considerably as the technology matured. New firearms were developed and adopted at a breakneck pace from about the 1870s onward and each was a leap ahead of the last ..whereas since at least the 1960s military procurement has had more to do with doctrinal change than any inherent improvement in firearms technology..
@juliancantarelli
@juliancantarelli 2 жыл бұрын
About the short or long Q&A, pretty much all of us love all of your content. I could watch a video about taxes if you are the one doing the talk.
@Falconguygaming
@Falconguygaming 2 жыл бұрын
One thing to consider, within the US atleast, we've lost many toolmakers and instead rely on engineers. More people are less efficient, look at Garand or stoner vs the l85 team
@AA-qd7vk
@AA-qd7vk 2 жыл бұрын
Don't see a lot of tool and die shops and small machinist shops anymore any you do see are run by old men about to retire in the next 5-10 years it's unfortunate
@alfredkugler3043
@alfredkugler3043 2 жыл бұрын
I don't think the l85 is a fair example. From what I understand, it was not really a bad design, but the design team was essentially fired and the gun put into production before they were finished developing it. H&K fixed almost everything by just doing the last few design steps.
@matthayward7889
@matthayward7889 2 жыл бұрын
The L85 debacle wasn’t due to ‘design by committee’ but because, remarkably, none of them had designed a gun before. Even bona fide gun genius like Browning needed a whole bunch of engineers around him to actually make a design manufacturable
@mpetersen6
@mpetersen6 2 жыл бұрын
@@matthayward7889 And do the design work needed to develop the tooling needed to produce them.
@alfredkugler3043
@alfredkugler3043 2 жыл бұрын
@@matthayward7889 Again, just what I think I know, but the point was that they began design of the L85 in Enfield, and essentially before they were halfway done the gunmakers there got the message that the arsenal was being closed and they were all out of a job. At the same time some paper-pushers in the MoD decided that the gun was ready and pushed for adoption, while the designers, fresh out of their job did nothing. The point I was trying to make though is that the L85 was not a bad design in itself, it was just half finished when it was pushed to the troops. All H&K did in the end to fix it was polishing the raw edges and working out the last design flaws that should have been removed before the gun was adopted. Making it reliable and effective.
@jacobfarley2332
@jacobfarley2332 2 жыл бұрын
I like the new format as well, but any chance to have them combined together in podcast format for the patrons still?
@allanbador7316
@allanbador7316 2 жыл бұрын
Great information. Thanks
@FG42
@FG42 2 жыл бұрын
I think you missed a few things. For example paperwork. Once a test has been completed a report must be written up and reviewed by multiple people. This will take at least 3 months if everything goes well. Then you need to do V&V work which will be at least a year for something as primitive as a firearm. Also arranging test facilities might be as long as a year or more lead time. Urgent operational requirements (UORs) procurement happen very fast but once it is no longer urgent you actually have to do all of the qualification and testing procedures which still takes the same amount of time. What can happen with UORs if they are impossible or too expensive to make compliant to laws or standards is that they will be decommissioned in a real hurry.
@crusader0perator385
@crusader0perator385 2 жыл бұрын
Last time I was this early, military procurement was just how big the stick was
@mpetersen6
@mpetersen6 2 жыл бұрын
The hand held rock mk1
@TomSalesJr
@TomSalesJr 2 жыл бұрын
I like both formats.
@MandoWookie
@MandoWookie 2 жыл бұрын
The Chauchat is a good example of a wartime crash program to get a needed weapon into service, the Famas is a good example of a peacetime project to replace a legacy system with a whole new doctrinally different standard from the ground up, and the Hk416 is a good example of a COTS procurement to replace an aging platform with a known good performer to quickly get your forces up to date with its peers.
@macdeath69
@macdeath69 2 жыл бұрын
oh a new vidéo... Merci Ian.
@bruceinoz8002
@bruceinoz8002 2 жыл бұрын
An interesting study is the "Owen / Austen" caper in WW2 Australia. Essentially, the Owen was a "back-yard" enthusiast coming up with a concept that ends up with a commercial sponsor who also has savvy production engineers. The Austen was a couple of "influential" chaps kludging a Sten / MP40 hybrid and trying to get it adopted as the "one true Oz SMG". In the darkest days of a national fight for survival. There are a couple of good small books on that matter.
@ProeliatorDeus
@ProeliatorDeus 2 жыл бұрын
Am I crazy or is Ian's mustache asymmetrical?!?! I feel like my brain is playing tricks on me
@thebusstop
@thebusstop 2 жыл бұрын
This really opened by eyes to how vulnerable most countries are the the caprice of private companies now.
@harperhellems3648
@harperhellems3648 2 жыл бұрын
Maybe, but the beauty of using private companies is the control the government has on quality control, innovation, pricing, etc. When you're the one offering the contracts, you're the one denying them too. Think about the difference in weapons innovations between open, democratic economies and "socialist" or "communist" ones. We're the innovators, they're the followers (thieves).
@drdoom-skull2244
@drdoom-skull2244 2 жыл бұрын
I think you could keep both formats. Some questions probably do not warrant a 15-min videos so you keep them in the old Q&A format, although I'd say that you might consider 30-45min length rather than over 1 hour. And questions deserving a deeper answer can be stand-alone videos such as this one.
@simonjones6128
@simonjones6128 2 жыл бұрын
Good job Ian mccollem as usual. I was wondering if you have ever thought about doing early air rifles and air pistols . Or is the case that you have so much already on your plate as it is
@dusrus
@dusrus Жыл бұрын
Rambling Ian is best Ian
@erloriel
@erloriel 2 жыл бұрын
These videos are absolutely excellent! A great addition to your channel.
@johncox2865
@johncox2865 2 жыл бұрын
Impressive content.
@drag1286
@drag1286 Жыл бұрын
Thank you.
@rumo893
@rumo893 2 жыл бұрын
How about the sling. It’s mostly forgotten, really effective aaaand it did also shoot little pieces of lead.
@DaBiEsTyBoY
@DaBiEsTyBoY 2 жыл бұрын
I spit my tea when Ian said “blimey”
@SNOUPS4
@SNOUPS4 2 жыл бұрын
Does China still have national factories, as the exception to the stated rule?
@User_Un_Friendly
@User_Un_Friendly 2 жыл бұрын
Ian, you forgot to cover Ebonian procurement process. 🤣
@The_New_IKB
@The_New_IKB 2 жыл бұрын
Can it be made out of mud!
@mpetersen6
@mpetersen6 2 жыл бұрын
Does Bannermen have it in stock!
@mikehipperson
@mikehipperson 2 жыл бұрын
Do Walmart and Target have the necessary hardware?
@andredulac4456
@andredulac4456 2 жыл бұрын
Something I never understood about the chauchat is one of the main issue is the open magazine, I understand they wouldn't rebuild the guns, but they could just close the magazine and remplace them while they produce new ones, easy fix 🤔
@criffermaclennan
@criffermaclennan 2 жыл бұрын
It goes from ,in peacetime, what's the best we can get for roll X....in wartime it's a case of whats good enough to fill a roll.
@Scroolewse
@Scroolewse Жыл бұрын
Some Ask Ian videos I click on wondering "wtf could be so interesting about this" and then get my mind blown but this video I knew would be a banger from reading the title.
@runem5429
@runem5429 2 жыл бұрын
"Now I'm just rambling" the man suddenly said after, what, 14(?) years😆
@TheHylianBatman
@TheHylianBatman 2 жыл бұрын
I think the design process is probably the most interesting part for me.
@briandavitmusic9421
@briandavitmusic9421 2 жыл бұрын
Love it
@jamesburton6022
@jamesburton6022 2 жыл бұрын
“Bloymee” best British impression since Dick Van Dyke
@albertocastellanos541
@albertocastellanos541 2 жыл бұрын
by any chance can you review the Heckler & Koch HK CAWS if u come across their grey room once again? Thanks
@leigncoelho1532
@leigncoelho1532 2 жыл бұрын
Is there anywhere that lists all the Q&A questions that have been answered and what episode they were answered in?
@sandgroper1970
@sandgroper1970 2 жыл бұрын
basically in wartime it’s get the guns out into the field in the hands of the soldiers fast, and if possible cheap as possible. Obviously with the proviso of the fact you need to produce more than you think you need to cover losses in the field..
@m1994a3jagnew
@m1994a3jagnew 2 жыл бұрын
Dear Gun Jesus, I'm attempting to obtain my first scope. I'm going to no drill no tap mount onto an ishapore 2a1. Is is better to actually use a full on drilled mount for accuracy? Does anything I do remotely matter for that rifle in accuracy or is it just kinda you get what you get? Also when I can finally afford a big boy scope did the British or Indian army have a scope for the 2a1 specifically? And does anyone make repros? I already have a pretty good bipod rigged onto the bayonet lug (non permanent as to not damage the original rifle)
@AsbestosMuffins
@AsbestosMuffins 2 жыл бұрын
I always saw the dichotomy between wartime and peacetime adoptions as what do we need right now vs what is an investment for the future, britain needed millions of stens in 1940 but it was a temporary gun that didn't last but didn't need to, while in peacetime you can buy or produce the arms that are more expensive but higher quality and will stick around for a long time
@drdoom-skull2244
@drdoom-skull2244 2 жыл бұрын
There is a bit of Maslow's pyramid in that. And fire-fighting. Cue the Rubys of WW1.
@All-Fur-Coat_No-Trousers
@All-Fur-Coat_No-Trousers 2 жыл бұрын
I have an earnest question for this esteemed community- Which weapon would you consider more ascetically congruent with the style of the Fallout series? 1. Steyr AUG- featured in _Fallout: Tactics_ 2. Giat FAMAS- Not featured in any Fallout games, but can be found in the _Wasteland_ series.
@godpigeon
@godpigeon 2 жыл бұрын
I've seen it with peacetime being more "what did we learn from the last war (what was it like)". They rarely develop for the next war, but for the last. And lately the rate of wars has slowed down a lot.
@incoherentrambling3139
@incoherentrambling3139 2 жыл бұрын
To be fair it's difficult to know exactly what the next war will be like, we can predict and hope but we can never know for sure
@cynthiakoehne7004
@cynthiakoehne7004 2 жыл бұрын
no better example is the Lewis MG, an aircraft gun remade into a ground gun, just watch the Tom Sellek movie where he uses an aircraft Lewis MG to great success on attacking ground forces, I forgot the name of the movie circa 1989, but what a great Lewis MG scene!
@luked2767
@luked2767 2 жыл бұрын
I do not think people understand how a rifle like a Mauser, SMLE, mosin nagant, arisaka or 1903 would cost at least 2000usd to make today as they did not have CNC or hammer forging, they used quality cured wood and everything was steel or wood, it was all hand fit and finished. I dare to think how much it would cost to make a MK1 bren or even M1 Garand. Yes the sten, German SMGs and russian SMGs where cheap but they did not realy win the war, I would imagine that STG44 cost more than a Mauser and they only used that bore diameter as they could not afford to retool barrel and projectile manufacturing, same why they used the base of the 8mm Mauser and just cut it down and sized it to 8mm Kurtz. You can feel the extra quality on any millitary pistol or rifle especially made before WW1 or in between 1 and 2 compared to anything modern. AR15s can be made by buying parts from many different subcontractors and fit in very well when it comes to new manufacturing processes and materials like CNC and polymer, they need no real hand fitting or headspacing aslong as the barrel and bolt are decent and are the best rifle to make in small numbers. The AK if made in a city sized factory is very cheap to produce but does require some hand fitting and what would be considered outdated ekthods such as riveting, if made small scale it would be alot more expensive than an AR15. It feels like conventional firearms have almost reached the apex of developmemt. I was not that impressed with the M5 as I think it's a DMR. But apart from a few new materials and maybe a better caliber,.improved powders, and improved projectiles with a better BC and AP capabilitys we are almost at the apex, I would be surprised if causeless ammunition catches on but steel based with a polymer bodyunition could. I think a big part of the future in firearms tech are computerized optics that you can mark a target, it communicates with the rest of your millitary, the optic can take windeasurements from your location, others location and weather data, it would have a built in range finder, NV and maybe even thermal then you would pull the trigger and as soon as the optic communicates to the rifle hits will be made it will engage the seat and send a burst of fire towards the target. If could even guess the thickness of a barrier and estimate how many rounds it would take to hit the target. Then your own troops would have a device on them that would prevent freindly fire but you would want the option to disable this just incase a troops gear was captured but with captured weapons you could remotely disable them or even remotely detonate explosives. This could be indergated with a ubderbarel grenade launcher or standalone greanaid launcher so the optic could calulate the distance of the target set the detonator on the grenaide electronically when it's in the tube so you could fire an airburst grenaide right over the heads of an enemy behind cover.
@luked2767
@luked2767 2 жыл бұрын
@@rapter229 the optic will make or break it and I think the SS brass case could have been replaced with just steel case as good quality steel case with the right steel can handle crazy pressures aka the reason they never used brass in the MG42 as if the bolt bounced on brass it would get destroyed, on a steel case a jam but it was annealed to be hard at the bottom of the car head and as soft as brass by the mouth. I at least expected SS and polymer as they run fine asking as the chamber is not fluted. The optic could be used on any rifle and a 20" AR would be good or even in cqb the reason so many mato nations use bullpuos as you have a 20 inch barrel in a small package and below 18 it becomes far less effective with terminal ballistics. The M5 is quite heavy and a spare barrel may be needed per sodkier or even 2 not sure if it'd a crazy chrome line or even a type or ceramic insert that they played with back in the day, but the weapon without the optic is heavy, the optic is going to be heavy as it will have so many features will need a large battery and will have to be very tough and have some emo sehilding, with that and the heavy ammo it would not be fun. As far as firearms have gone we have done everything and have pretty much nearly reached the apex what we lack is a good balance the M5 can't replace all the rifles and it's just a waste in places like Afganistan, I'm surprised in Afganistan the military did not go with a semi auto AR10 instead of an antquie m14 based rifle or the heavy and not so accurate heavy SCAR, the British army went with new style accursed AR10s and it served them well. No one firearm can replace everything, the US military will still need an intermediate caliber and not just a full power weapon it alleys goes bad when you try to use one weapon as a jack of all as it ends up doing a poor job at everything. I can see if we face a modern nation with quality body armour this rifle is great, but it's a waste in the wars we have seen for a very long time. I know they have brass practise ammo that won't burn up the barrel so badly and they could use that for non armoured targets. But with the type of war we know I think most will be given standard nato rounds and a couple of guys with these new sig rifles and MGs in each squad. The optic will be what will possibly change the face of modern warfare and I would not be surprised if the first couple of iterations are not great but apart from finding a good balance with ammo and a weapon we have reached pretty much the limit of firearms tech but we have only just started playing a little with smart optics. We have the tech and have had it for some time but the implimetation and balance of certain features will be hard, I would not be surprised if every smart optic has a back up small red dot and backup irons. With this type of tech making it almost impossible for hackers to infiltrate the weapon and command systems is so important so a way to turn off the optic and change it to a dumb one or just stop it and when it's powered off it does not effect the firing mechanism at all. Modern war is very hard to imagion as we have so many new toys, the last time 2 nations with a real airforce and navy and I use the word real in a light manner was the fawklands war and most of the argentine aircraft and vessels had seen better days, both used the same infantry weapon the FAL and the UK reinstated the vulcan bomber that had all mechanical computers for bombing. I don't know if you could say Argentina was a first world nation at the time as it was in alot of turmoil, corrupt with financial hardship for everyone, they captured the fawklands to get peoples mind off how bad the economy was. For 2 developed nations withbabdecentnmillitarybti fight eachother modern day would bring untold destruction, in sirenitneoukd be in a proxy nation but I'm sure both sides would get casualtys at an insane rate compared to past wars. I highly doubt China would ever go to war with the US as both nations rely on each other more than they know. Russia has proven to be not such a great military power but the fact they have huge stockpiles of old but still capable soviet ICBMs and a few new or upgraded ones is scary in the hands of a guy like putin. I lived in China for 8 years and the Chinese and Korean civilians had the shortest straw, the Japanese would steal, rape, torture kill and enslave everyone and was the only side to use chemical weapons. The 1 child policy is over but most still have 1 and they really don't want to loose their only sons. Russia is the real wildcard but north Korea is predictable as they cause trouble then they get attention work out a deal for aid then stop and do it every few years. Covid is a huge problem in NK and they only spent a few million on imports of medication last year so only the eleties can afford treatment and medication. Many have died from covid, many have covid that and a lack of food due to famine and not even being able to get asparin or Tylenol I would not be surprised if NK does its usual threats for aid as it has done so many times, they could be waiting for the situation in the Ukraine to subside so they can get more attention.
@luked2767
@luked2767 2 жыл бұрын
@@bartunthegreat2999 The AK in 7.62x39 is one it my favorste rifles to shoot, I prefer Chinese AKs, converted veprs and the new Zastava USA AKs, My first semi auto center fire rifle was a siaga in 5.45x39 that my uncle did a perfect job of restoring to its former glory. Pretty sure it very had a single US made part and he even installed a triangle side folder and to this day its my favorste type of folding stock, this was when 7n6 was 5centd a round, he had an FFL and gun store he would buy crazy amounts or surplus firearms and ammo then sit in them for a long time he must have had well over a million rounds of 7N6 and he still has lots of Chinese surplus steel core 7.62x39 and new Chinese AKs, siagas, veps new in the box as well as Yugo mausers Swiss rifles, alot of mosin nagants and some Finnish mosin nagants that are crazy accurate. The AKM was designed to be reliable and easy to use out to 300m but since the Soviets expected the cold War to go hot they gave the AK a very loose machine gun chambering as I think they expected war time ammo production to be spotty, but they had and still have great Cold hammer forging machines and use a type of chrome lining that's amazing, but the chamber is too loose and apart from Tula apart from the rare to deep primer I have never seen a bad round the AK chamber has no conventional step from where the bullet meets the case it has a crazy long freebore and the lead is not optimal. But on builds I have found the new FB radom barrels are very accurate and so are the Zastava USA rifles, even the wasr10 can be very accurate but its very hit and miss you could get a 4 or 5 moa or a sub moa but a lot of rack grade m4s are around 3 moa. When I shoot a few hundred rounds of 7.62x39 I really feel I have had a good shoot and it can but fun to see what you can do with irons vs optics the AR15 does not have much recoil or character, if we'll made they are tsc drivers with good ammo but they just lack something, you can shoot a brick of .22lr and feel you have not shot much and .223 does not give you much recoil, the 74 is very light shooting and I think half of the recoil is from the the bolt. The AR is much more suited for production in small Western nations where many companys make parts on automated machinery and its put together like lego, most AR15 barrels in the US are button rifled and that's very cheap to do, so is a nitride coating, it needs minimal hand fitting, I only own one DI AR15 it was back when parts kits used to be crazy cheap but you got few parts, I ordered a psa premium upper without the bolt for a crazy cheap price removed the barrel and sold all the other parts. I purchased a bolt head from FN as I assumed it would match the barrel made by FN well, I ordered an 80% lower that had faux military markings from the Vietnam era and I made a pretty good replica Vietnam era M16 style AR15, the only thing I did was shim and bed the barrel to the upper so the barrel had zero play and was nice and tight, this usually helps the accuracy in any AR15, I also used a tube to free float the triangle habdgaurds, I installed a chrome lined BCG like on the early M16, I replaced all the springs and put in an upgraded extract spring, apart from that I put in a better trigger group, not super fancy or expensive but nice and crisp but it took me a while to give the lower the same worn look as the rest of the rifle. With 5.56 I don't go lower than 18 inches. You can suprusingly mount quite a few decent optics optoo of the carry handle and you have to shoulder it a different esy but it's still comfortable. My favorste 5.56 rifle is my psudo T91 I got all the parts from a T91 website it's the assault rifle of Taiwan and they had the AR platform but Improved it and now they make uppers that will work on an AR lower and you at least used to be able to buy any barrel length and all the furbiture, it has a light but very reliable gas system piston, it likes wolf gold the most as its also from Taiwan. A big reason why many nato nations have bullpuos is that they can have a 20 inch barrel but still have a handy weapon but the triggers are nearly all ways awful, wonder if they could have some sort of hydraulic linkage. The 5.56 is getting long in the tooth and I think nato needs a new intermediate cartridge. I was surprised to see the US military planning to use hollow point 9mm rounds in combat, and anything but FMJ is banned in war from before WW1 due to the huage convention the US did not attend or sign but if it is used in war Russia and States that use 7.62x54R and soviet 12.7mm have alot of explosive rounds in storsge and that would not be fun.
@Willy_Tepes
@Willy_Tepes 2 жыл бұрын
Another thing is that companies that submit arms to trial must be able to produce them in the US. I looked into this during the US Army pistol trials some years ago as I had a design that met the requirements.
@AdamantLightLP
@AdamantLightLP 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, The US likes to produce stuff in-house, since you don't really want to rely on others for critical goods in wartime.
@Willy_Tepes
@Willy_Tepes 2 жыл бұрын
@@AdamantLightLP That means only companies that have plants in the US can win such a bid. Well whatever, I have other plans for my design. Shit's gonna hit the fan soon.
@schnell1568
@schnell1568 2 жыл бұрын
Hi guys, does any one have any idea about the sal ammoniac trail? I find it intersting but I really failed finding the information, what is the name of that poor gun? and why they did so crucial thing to it?
@harperhellems3648
@harperhellems3648 2 жыл бұрын
"Let's talk about Chauchat," sounds like a French disco hit from the 70s.
@MyTv-
@MyTv- 2 жыл бұрын
Production in the state arsenal was more or less required.
@leewilkinson6372
@leewilkinson6372 2 жыл бұрын
"Did you mention the chautchat?? Hold my high-end whiskey...."
@reginaldsafety6090
@reginaldsafety6090 2 жыл бұрын
Really prefer the shorter and more digestible versions of the Q&A sessions. Hard to sit down for a 1 hour video when my boss keeps insisting that I man the register.
@wildgophers91
@wildgophers91 2 жыл бұрын
The best "blimey" I've ever heard
@baen1466
@baen1466 2 жыл бұрын
I see why the change in format makes sense. I also, however, miss being able to put something on for an hour or more.
@kevinschultz6091
@kevinschultz6091 2 жыл бұрын
It sounds like this is an example of the observation that firearms are, for the most part, a mature technology. ie, the 1911 is a design that folks are still being used, for example. Yes, there are incremental improvements (and sea-changes, such as with optics), but for the most part, "the bullet comes out of this end" is a technology with known parameters that can be tested. As such, what folks tested for a century ago is (pretty much) the same things folks are testing for these days.
@burhanbudak6041
@burhanbudak6041 2 жыл бұрын
This format is better.
@leetwinpl7351
@leetwinpl7351 2 жыл бұрын
Offtop: Is there any chance for any video from your last visit at FB Radom in Poland?
@ForgottenWeapons
@ForgottenWeapons 2 жыл бұрын
Yes, I filmed a couple videos there. They will be coming out in the next few months.
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