asmon is pretty articulate, I like hearing his more serious takes about MMOs. But jesus christ is his chat braindead.

"is wow community toxic?" Chat: yes Asmon mods: yes Twitch staff: yes

It is crazy going back to these videos after Asmon actually tried the game because the CHAT was sooo not on board with FF14 yet. And now it is Asmon's most popular content in a long time and the chat is loving the game.

I honestly never even realized how rude most MMO players are until I played FF14. I remember when my wife started playing and decided to main white mage. It was her first MMO and there were multiple times I was in a dungeon with her and was like "look babe u need to heal the tank or people are going to leave." To my surprise, instead of yelling at her or getting frustrated with her, the other members of the party helped her by recommending skills and explaining different boss mechanics. There are a number of reason I stopped playing FF14 but the community was definitely not one of them

*Asmon:* "Is WoW toxic?" *The Whole Chat:* "YES" Finally, something everyone agrees on.

I love how he literally talked about the stupidity of MMO tribalism right before watching this video and now look at his chat. That shit is awful.

"Games should make you want to waste your time, not waste your time." 🔥

Asmons chat before and after he started playing 14 are wildly different lol

I like the fact Asmongold cracked a genuine smile when he saw Godbert from the Hildibrand quest line.

Two months later, Asmon is so invested in the story he knows the names of all the characters, fears for their lives and grieves if they die.

Asmongold: eloquent and thoughtful in what he says Asmongold's Chat: literally one of the stupidest and most annoying things on the internet.

Asmongold handles his chat like a dog on a leash which is why he does so well. He knows how to incorporate the right lingo to excite or interact with them. He knows their hive minded thought processes and dances with it. I'm impressed with his ability to stream for hours and handle the chat so fluidly

Personally, I’m in the same camp that I don’t really care for stories that “kiss your ass” at every juncture, but mostly I believe what soured that behavior for me slightly was actually WoW. I really hated the idea of having these titles thrust upon me when I felt as though I’ve done literally nothing to earn/deserve them, but this is where this shifts slightly for me when I play FFXIV. In WoW you’re basically at the sidelines in terms of the story while Tyrande, Thrall, Jaina, etc are at the forefront fighting the important battles, are the middle of the important interactions so on and so forth. It makes me feel bittersweet when I’m give these titles for basically no tangible effort. My biggest gripe with this practice was Legion. It really bugged getting called these very prestigious titles like Archmage, Archdruid, Highlord, Deathlord, etc on what feels like a side character. On the flip side in FFXIV your character is present in 90% of the cutscenes and even fighting from time to time you aren’t some side character you are the MC and whenever you are present and taking part in these important/climactic/flashy battles it feels a lot more satisfying and feels more like you’ve earned your title rather than getting it for free. This is even more reinforced by the fact that there is no need for alts with the job system. These facts make your singular character that much more prodigious/special feeling. Maybe others disagree, but that’s how I’ve always felt about it.

Speaking of music, one of the sickest moments in FFXIV from a music perspective is fighting Shiva, she snaps her fingers, and the track amps up. That type of attention to detail for music usage is just next level. I think Asmon will appreciate that.

2 days in FFXIV, got two crowns helping me, they gave me a lot of tips, found me a guild that helps new players, and told me in what i should be focused right now, i am happy. No stress, game look amazing, and the community really is amazing.

Just started playing FFXIV yesterday and today when I got on to play I ran across a group of 60+ people from various guilds all chillin and dancing/hanging out and not a single person was spamming or cursing or trolling. They were all just hangin out enjoying being there. After my countless hours in WoW, walking into this in FFXIV really got me. YES the WoW community is TOXIC.

I didn't care too much about the story in FFXIV at first, but eventually I was so into it that I just couldn't stop playing. Playing through the FFXIV story was like binge watching a great TV series. You always wanna know what happens next and it's really hard to put it down. Such a great game. Also, this is coming from someone who dislikes anime. The whole "FFXIV is for weebs" thing is pretty dumb. You don't need to be into anime or whatever to enjoy this game. It's final fantasy, not phantasy star online.

Boss music in final fantasy is so well synced to the fights, that during transitions is when the bridge of a song falls and when it drops back in is the exact moment you can attack the boss again. No comparison.

Seeing this a month later and hearing Asmon say that he doesn't know if he'll be interested in the story of FF14 and if he'll care or keep him coming back is pretty funny.

As a new FFXIV player and warcraft vet, gotta say had an actual "wow" moment fighting Shiva for the first time hearing the music and getting frozen and shattered.

Thing that I like about FF's story is that yes, you're the main character, but it doesn't mean other characters don't accomplish anything. They sometimes surprise me by acting like badasses in cutscenes and even go out and do their own thing in the world. They're not kissing your boots despite relying on you for lots of things.

I feel like pointing towards twitter to prove a community is toxic is like pointing to a garbage can to prove the building smells like shit. I know Asmon can get a bit... hyper focused on WoW and MMOs at times, but I dont know many fandoms that didnt have their twitter side making them look bad.

I love the WoW lore, but as a friend of mine once said, "I don't want my stories to come with homework". Also, blizz just has a tendency to pull things out of their asses in regard to stories.

My favorite part is a comment in the video is at 1:15:45. Someone said "I never saw any FF 14 refugee guide to WoW." Just plain savage.

"Man why is everyone in the comment section bashing his chat?" Chat: Weeb, weeb weeb. "...Ahhh."

I feel sorry for Asmongold. His chat doesn't deserve him.

The WoW story, for those of us who skip through most of it and just mythic raid, resembles bad WWE writing. "Oh, the heel is the good guy now. Oh, that guy betrayed this other guy and put him through a table. Oh dang, someone stole Paul Bearer's urn." I feel like there's a lot of overlap if you're a casual observer.

Asmon: "I don't think I can paradigm shift in my head to be like that" Asmon after unlocking Gold Saucer: "This chocobo will eventually only have 1 gene"

Calling it now: Asmon is gonna play a Highlander Hyur starting as a marauder.

Lazy Peon boosted and said the game sucked, no one takes his criticisms of FFXIV seriously.

Also the thing about ffxiv's story that I love is that while you are definitely important, you're not important just because you're some "Chosen one". What's different is that you FEEL important. You FEEL impactful. You FEEL like you matter, for good reasons, not because someone said so. That's just a small part of it.

As a person who left Wow to try FF14 first thing i realized is how the community is much nicer. They are so helpful specially in dungeon and raid and trial groups. Secondly i really love the fact how many endless possibilities are there to make your character look. Endless tmogs hairstyles etc. Story telling is amazing where you really feel you are a part of it. You actually matter ! Us girls specially like our outfit and hair varieties ! Another thing i think its amazing is that u can play all the classes on 1 single character !! U dont have to level one character per class !! I love it and i m not planning to play any other mmo for a long time ! FF 14

I feel like when he stops to talk and explain stuff, he's really only talking to the KZfaq audience. I say this because no matter how much he lectures his chat about bad behavior, they just go right back to it as if it never happened. The difference is that we watch a prerecorded video. Since we watch a video, we have our full attention on watching and listening, while most members of twitch chat are constantly focusing on voicing their loud and belligerent messages rather than listening to Asmon's important talks.

FF literally been the cornerstone for game music since the SNES era.

The past few expansions have made me realize how shitty WoW is for timegating/rep grinding etc. If they don't make a major change in 9.3 I think Shadowlands will be my swan song.

“WhERe’S thE eNdgAmE rAIdS!!” *In the distance, far off*, “Forward and back and then forward and back…”

if you ever feel like shit just know that asmon's chat exists

Something that kinda bothers me about the story in WoW is how disconnected your character feels. It feels more like you're just a random dude following Jaina and Thrall around and they only acknowledge your existence by calling you '' Champion ''. in FFXIV you're legit actual friends with the other characters and the characters still act regardless of whether they're with you or not, when they're off screen they've still done things that matter when you meet up again and it makes them feel alive. And it feels like all of you are together part of the actual story and matter. In WoW it feels like your character is a deus ex machina that just comes in to kill things to solve all problems but then the story characters are the only ones that matter in the story and your character may as well not exist in the cutscenes at all.

I really appreciate your open mindedness on these topics as of late Asmon. Hearing your insight is quite enjoyable to watch.

This came up on my recommended after watching him loving ff14 and doing all kind of things that he thought he might not be able to handle, it's truly wholesome how the game you thought it might be crap, turns out to be good. Should shows a lot of people that "don't judge the covers if you haven't read the whole book yet"

That moment when Godbert Manderville showed up in the outro card I knew those last few moments were gonna be amazing, the sheer confusion and *amusement* on Asmon's face! XD

one thing i love about FFXIV is that the devs LISTEN to their players rather then insult them.

cooperative toxicity is different than competitive toxicity. haveing a friend shit talk you for a day or two for not casting a heal in time to save them is different than a competing guild spawn camping playerkilling people in a zone just because the other players have the potential to beat them. one is straight up griefing and the other is harmless fun

Watching this video after watching 14+ hours of Asmon playing through the early story and being completely zoned in and enthralled has been so ironic. He's so invested already and it'll only gets better and better.

asmon's chat always makes me laugh... wow: our lore is so vast and deep FFXIV: my favourite part of the game is the story asmon chat: NEEEERDS!

Feel like the one takeaway he didnt quite get is that the positivity in ffxiv isnt fake positivity. You can definitely give negative feedback and/or tell someone off. Just having some respect and not being a degenerate is all that is asked. Toxicity in FFXIV as I have experienced it, though, is a lot more serious than some of the degeneracy I've seen in WoW, as an example my friend was the victim of a guy displaying stalker-like behaviour, following her around all the time /slapping her on sight. An isolated example but not an uncommon escalation in terms of emotional severity. And lets not forget assholes in random dungeons do exist.

Some FFXIV music is just amazing. Alot of bosses have a music change when their phase changes. A really good one is Shiva as well as the Ruby Weapon (the one in the video you enjoyed). Some music is themed on the bosses origins. Suzaku for example is a very Asian theme, Lakshmi has Hindi themes where it originates from India. Then you have some themes which are Parody works like King Moogle’s theme being a parody of a nightmare before Christmas theme.

"I dont like when particle effects obscure my vision" *Triggers Red Mage LB3*

Jesse - "There isn't an over arching story to classic WoW" Zack - "Now I don't think that's true, I mean there wasn't a story that covered all of classic WoW, but there were tiny sub plots"

jesse : vanilla wow didn't ahve one big over arching story. asmon : i wouldn't say that, i think wow had a lot of small stories, just not one big one. me : ^,-

Lol asmon just refuses to belive the FF14 crowd is just nicer. It amuses me.

"GAMBLING?!" said the man who now lives in the Golden Saucer for hours at a time.

Man this Zack talking himself into playing XIV arc is going on forever. At this point he'll have absorbed so many peoples opinions that when he finally gives his own it won't be as genuine.

I guess it's due to his interactions on Twitter, but whenever Asmon has a take on toxicity in the FF14 community v.s. the WoW community, it feels completely unrooted in reality. WoW is toxic as fuck and FF14 has a genuinely helpful community- of course this won't be true in all cases for either game, but as someone who has played WoW since classic and FF14 since ARR- this is overwhelmingly the case.

A good point admin brings up in other videos explains the toxicity well. Final fantasy rewards you for clearing content with new players. Wow punishes you for everything you do. It's different stakes. Billy the dipshit might waste 30 minutes of my time in ff14. In wow he could cost you a week of waiting/grinding. It's a better system that rewards rather than punishing.

The part where he's talking about negative feedback, of course there is, just not in the way he's thinking. For most, the negative feedback in WoW is something along the lines of people discouraging you from playing because they all think you suck when in reality you're new. In FF14 and i can personally atest to this, the negative feedback comes in the form of instructions from more experienced players. I remember we were doing one of the first dungeons, Tam-Tam, and I was a tank. We wiped because the healer died because i wasn't protecting her. When we came back, the healer gave me instructions, hold X enmity while the DPSer's hit otherwise the boss targets the healer and can kill them quite easily. So i stuck with the old, Heavy Weapons Guy strategy by being the biggest nuisance ever to the mobs and guess what? It worked. Healer lived, DPS took out the minions and then we beat the boss. I got a shiny new axe from it and then from then on i knew how to tank for low level dungeons up to The Manner anyways

It’s fascinating how he explains in 3:40 that WoW literally has lore and not a story without realizing it.

A rehash of a comment I made on Jesse's video: "FFXIV set the Guinness World Record for most original pieces of music in a video game (including expansions) with an astonishing 384 songs, and that was back in 2017. Now it being 2021, that number has since grown." Note, it's not about which songs are better in which game, but rather just to give scale to the sheer amount and variety of music in ffxiv. Doesn't necessarily mean ffxiv's music is better because there's more of it, just to be clear. But you're bound to find at least a handful of music you'll like in ffxiv just because of the variety. Ofc, WoW also has a bunch of music that's great, just not as varied. Not necessarily a bad thing, but it is a notable difference.

wow has the most toixc community I've EVER seen in any mmo. Don't defend that.

So honestly, even with the songs you (generic, not you specifically) don't like, FFXIV just has a way bigger range of musical styles in it than WoW. Everything in wow is generic fantasy orchestral. And that can be fine, I like and listen to a lot of that music. But FFXIV just gives you way, way more variety and I find myself turning off game music in favor of my own music way, way less often than in wow because of it.

"All you have to do to find toxicity is find a thing that makes someones mad" Well, but isn't looking for something that makes someone mad and using it against them to get them mad is toxicity in itself?...

- wow difficulty is reactive. the goal is to enforce the illusion of no "choreography" by making the "dance steps" and the sequence of said steps random. it's like a twitch reaction in an fps or a "read" in a fighting game. - ffxiv difficulty is proactive. the encounter doubles down on the choreography and increases the number of steps you have to know. this in addition to the patterns that your rotation has. it's like a mastered combo in tekken, or a pattern of movements in a platforming speed run.

''It's not toxic because it's what I like doing'' Bruh moment

it's kidna cool to come back to these older videos of asmon and seeing his opinion of both WoW and FFXIV change

As an old WoW player, I can see where Asmongold is coming from about the starting story for your character, but at the same time the guy in the video is right, I don't know what happened in vanilla WoW and I feel every new expansion for WoW followed the DBZ chapter formula. Beat big baddie boss -> new expansion and a new stronger big baddie shows up -> train and gear up to beat that boss and repeat.

“The only reason you don’t see toxicity is because it’s gonna get you banned” that’s... good? What else can they do send you a coupon to a therapist and pray?

I think that point about “the story of WoW was what YOU the player made it” is really exemplary of a common difference in design philosophy between western and Japanese RPGs. WRPGs tend to be more open and less focused on a main, linear narrative. They tend to allow you to decide your own role in the world - a lot of them have different factions to side with, good/evil reputation systems, more open stat building systems, different dialogue options that actually change stuff later on, etc. The choices you make often dictate how the story plays out - at least to some extent - and the games tend to be more focused on allowing you to go wherever you want and do whatever you want. They’ll often encourage playing through multiple times to experience all possible paths the story can follow or try out different character builds. But because they’re so open and free, the writers can’t be certain about what the player character is like because every playthrough will be different. This means they need to make story scenarios that are open ended enough to make sense in any given playthrough. JRPGs, on the other hand, tend to have more linear, fleshed out stories and characters. Your role as the hero is often decided for you, and the games usually take you from point a to point b with the only non-linearity coming from optional content. The protagonists of JRPGs are more likely to have their own personalities, desires, and goals when compared to WRPG protags whose personalities are often determined by whatever dialogue option the player picks. (Silent protagonists are the usual choice when going for a player insert - though they’re still rarely given the same player agency as a WRPG protag is.) Having the story follow one single path and having the protagonist have a prewritten arc can allow for stronger storytelling and better characters development because it doesn’t need to account for the player choosing to follow a different path. The trade off, of course, is limited player agency and replay value. TL;DR WRPGs are usually designed around player agency and freedom. You decide what your role in the world is. Meanwhile, JRPGs are usually designed around the storyline and characters. The story dictates your role in the world.

I would actually love to see you and Jesse just talk about the game and go back and forth on all of these different subjects. I think the two of would have a very level headed, easy going discussion about everything discussed and to see what new examples Jesse could come up with to defend his points and what compromises you might have to make with your points. Although, I don't know if you've played Monster Hunter, but that is all about killing the big monster, then killing the bigger monster and going until you reach the end of the game where you kill the final elder dragon of that version of the game. Let me find out on my own if he has, I'm new so I don't know.

most unflattering picture of an area locked in perpetual light lol

I love how asmons chat instantly started rocking to Ruby weapons theme lmao.

Until I decided to take a break, I was my FC's main crafter and that was my main focus (much to my FC leader's chagrin) but I had to raid and spend so much time / effort to gather mats, it's a major time sink. Was a lot of fun and a good way to earn money, especially when selling transmog gear.

I was playing a low level tank in FF XIV, and I found a FATE, which are mini zones with a temporal low importance event eveybody can join. It was a really big slug, and I was tanking it but I was going to need potions, and then a lancer appeared, and he starting attacking and it went faster. The slug divides into smaller and then smaller slugs, so We continued hunting until I realized I could use the area attack to tank them and then they would not attack the lancer. And if the lancer is alive, the fight gets easier. It was really wonderful and powerful moment, so after the fight we became friends. I never had such powerful moments in wow, where people would center on pointing out that I should have been tanking everything from the beginning, instead of noticing how I was learning to tank at that moment.

There is no feeling of forced positivity on ffxiv. The reason toxicity in ffxiv is less prevalent isn't because of the threat of a ban, its because that's how the community is, and people adapt to those around them. Going into ffxiv you will subconsciously become less toxic over time just for being in the game. Informational videos overemphasize the ban of toxic people to the point where we can't blame anyone for thinking the devs hold ban hammers above everyones heads, ready to strike anyone with toxic behavior. That is never a thought most people have.

Love Asmon but that "forced positivity" take is so weird to me. Started wow and ff 2 months ago with bias towards wow but the new player experience was horrible so I continued with ff. Literally never had to search anything online because of how helpful the player base was. Explained everything from boss mechanics to questing/leveling. Were they being forced to help me? Did my first raid and mentioned it in chat, which I never do. 1-2 players stayed behind every time we moved somewhere new to make sure I wasn't having trouble and offered to help when we were done. Guess they were forced as well. Halfway through Stromblood and only through Asmons videos did I learn how we are all forced to be positive. I hope people realise, many of us have actual responsibilities and just want to chill. Not all of us enjoy being toxic and constantly competing with others or getting into confrontations. Judging a community through Twitter is also not a smart idea xD

Asmon (1month ago) : I come for raid! Why doing gambling? Asmon (now) : Okay, I was wrong about gambling.

These videos are the highlight of my morning. I hate that I only started watching these a few months ago.

"I don't care about being the chosen one" Hydaelyn: - I DON'T REMEMBER ASKING YOU A GODDAMN THING!

So whos going to tell asmon that thay "red dragon" was basically a gundam

23:00 if Asmon does Eureka all the way through I will have gained a seriously deep respect for him

When you talked about the animation rigs this was done in FF7Remake and I agree. The in between rigs are used to tell the story for the most part which is amazing

FFXIV is an MMO that's all about presenting a story and respecting one's time and money. WoW is an MMO that's all about repeatable content that doesn't respect your time and money because it wants as much as it can get.

I just love how Asmon went into a rant about the FF endgame graphic when all he does in WoW is precisely the same thing: Gathering, Crafting, Transmog and Gambling

Ill must say idk if someone is reading this in comparison ive started wow 10 years ago as a healer and i got kicked out of the group becoause i did bad and whiped my team. The same happened to me 3 TIMES in ff14 and the tank said " look i know you try youre best and it doesnt work so stick with me, ill show you where you should stay, dont worry about my hp, just watch me and repeat after we wipe again" and it worked and i felt dumb at this moment but never failed my positioning ever again what made me so happry. they didnt kick me but showed me by mistakes to improve my gameplay what never would have happened in wow

One thing I really enjoyed and thought was genius design was from Star Wars: The Old Republic. They had class campaigns. So it was story based, but specific to your class type but also congruent to the rest of the stories. It paid to play all of them. You would level up primarily through your class story line and quests and were not forced to complete any other quests as you went along. You could choose which factions or reps you wanted to put time into. And some quests gave you solid gear upgrades. I think if Blizzard added something more along the line of a dedicated class storyline, and a group story line, they could keep the lore alive through questing since it is more interesting to follow this way. I really hope blizz takes you up on your game reset/extinction event and then questing all begins anew with a completely new system. This might make the game more fun and more interesting while leveling.

he has managed to put in hours of watching & talking about final fantasy 14 more than he ever will playing the actual game

jesse has no idea how how difficult raids in ffxiv actually work. He doesn't even do it. He's been carried by so many people its kind of insane.

I love looking back on these old videos after recent FF14 vids.

As an FFXIV player that is primarily a raider (I have been in the same raid static for around 4 ish years now), savage content (raids), and ultimates are challenging, fun and engaging and give cool rewards! Despite the casualness they push for ff players, the raiding aspect is actually really challenging and a time sink, but only like 15% of the player base if i recall actually does savage and ultimate content. I really encourage any new players (especially if you're WoW refugees) to try FF out with raid content in mind!

I’m also a person who isn’t really interested in story, the combat and general feel of the game had me hooked! The story is a really big plus though!

He didn't talk much about the raiding, just glanced over it saying wow has harder fights. But he obviously didn't get into savage and ultimates. So don't worry, raiding is a big part of FF for those who enjoy it :) Other than that it was a fair and good video!

Good Lord, I loved the reaction to the no context Hildebrand scene at the ending. Not that having the context really helps much, I suppose. XD

I have fond memories of grinding my neatharwing drake. It was a badge showing "I did this thing and it wasn't easy." Of my raid group from back then I was one of 2 people that did it. Was so fun sitting outside the dungeon on raid night on my drake as my guild mates gathered.

The positivity in the community noes NOT have very much to do with whether or not it's EZ to get in trouble. I promise you, as someone who HAS been that kind of super toxic person in WoW, there's just a world of difference when you're playing a game you truly enjoy. If I'm in a good mood because the game is fun, I'm much more receptive to helping out newer players. Take that idea and spread it across millions of players and years of stellar performance and you get the friendliest MMO community currently on the market.

Jesus these guys havent played real endgame FFXIV for sure. The challenging content is fucking insanely difficult ... nothing to glance over.

Going back to this video today is pretty interesting. His chat was *very* stupid and outright braindead before he started playing FF XIV, damn. You see his chat nowadays and I swear they either instantly matured 5 years or the people from this video just left and he got new, better chatters now.

Alliance in vanila had an interesting story of different alliance provinces having trouble because of lack of help from the capital, and ALL this stories are a peaces of a puzzle that lead the player to the Onyxia. Vanila had a story. It was just very cleverly integrated into leveling and questing

"Is WoW Community toxic ?" Lol just look at chat xD (Even tho with time that chat is getting better, honestly respect to Asmon that managed to change it a lot these last few months)

the only thing all the "wow players" are ALWAYS MISSING is that they never actually cover the dificulty of Savage and Ultimate raiding. at most they talk about Extremes (which are like the hardest content youll ever do if you are just a casual player) they never talk about how your dps rotation is like a pretty structured dance when missing 1 gcd or ogcd (depending on class) can basically murder your dps they never talk about the complexity involed in optimization for healers and dps in different fights or how the progression of savage / ultimate can be pretty chaotic and at the same time interesting but when you have enough experience on it its pretty much a really complex dance wich. i hope some of these streamers actually do this "harder content" because i have to say that normal raids and trials in FFXIV are EXTRMELY EASY at the point they are not challenging at all and you just do them for the story and thats it. savage and extremes are not even hard either but some people is just afraid to actually try them

FF14's story telling is about you and your experiences (you as in your character). WoW's storytelling is your character acting as a vessel to experience a story that isn't about you. Not necessarily a bad thing but it does make it harder to care about the story.

The dude that made that review was pretty accurate up to a point. He hasn't even done savage raids yet. :))