it actually works like that ngl

I can confirm. I use to think he was an absolute asshole. Then with his FFXIV start. I tuned in. He grew on me. lol

it happened to me lol

I honestly hate asmonds personality but i keep coming back to his videos to see his reactions toards stuff i enjoy and then i end up enjoying the videos mostly

Just watch 3 hours of intro and an hour of him fucking around in gold saucer. I promise it gets better after.

I watch a ton of JSH content regularly and he has a lot of great point, but after viewing many opinions from a few sources on the dame topics that conflict, he has some bad ones too.

@@kainhernandez4849 Yeah,he has some bad takes, but I generally agree with him most of the time which is impressive

He is most certainly fun to watch, I just watch/ listen any video while doing routine stuff

I just can’t get hooked by it, idk I guess the story doesn’t interest me

@@ChristianGyro it gets better after a 100 hours :D jk but really that's fine. unfortunaly ARR took the time to do world building, with lots of filler to make sure you reach level 50 and pad out the content. Doing whatever they can and scratching off bits of that failed 1.0 for ARR. It's not for everyone, but people promise a good story by Heavensward for a reason, which not many can experience unfortunaly

@@ChristianGyro That is a perfectly valid opinion, coming from an XIV player with 1000+ hours. If the game doesn't work for you, then it doesn't work for you, and that's okay!

I went into FF14 knowing beforehand that people call ARR is slow and it get better later. Personally i agree tho, until i got into satasha and its fun, a bit too fast since veteran just rushing stuff without giving me time to observe, but fun regardless. Then come ifrit, which is really nice. Im happy soon they mention Titan, but then i lost my faith again due to that food fetch quest. Still, overall its fun, but i dont want to revisit ARR story again

It ’s good that they are reworking the early msq

Reminds me of the Zelda speedrunner that practiced OoT over 34 hours every day for two years.

"Asmongold, the slightly above average gamer" I love it, lmfao

Average video game enjoyer

I wanna have a asmon stream where he just sit still for 4 Hours no video watching no game etc and slowly watch him get insane 🤣

that's why, whenever i make a new character, i just load the autosave that triggers when you get off the wagon in Helgen. saves a good amount of time

*screaming in the background* "Ah, you're finally awake!"

It's good intro for first playthrough as it shows whole basics of plot in it. However they should develop ESO's question to 'skip' intro when you already have one character finished on your game. Those who would be impatient would skip, those who enjoy it like myself would leave it play out.

loved this take. skyrim is my all time fav game, but i totally understand asmo.

i actually enjoyed the begining of wow (classic) but leveling up as a prot warrior vanhilla XD took me forever and i did keep to it cuz ppls were telling me the end game is sick yeah i did it and yeah it was nice ... but in other hand some of my friend tried it and after like 10 hour of leveling there were just like no ty thatsnt for me at all and left ... but the thing is that when wow came out there was way way less games then this days :p i would say the only other game i can find in that time that was a mmo and doing good is like d2 or runescape(classic) wich was like nothing compared to wow in graphics (maybe for the skills you could compare them since runescape had basicaly every skill wow had in skills ...but thats basicaly it ... when you have basicaly no competition you could afford to do this kind of things ...even for casual players cuz for the graphics the mechanics they were brand new and not much game could actually do the same and then ppls telling you get 60 you will see its way better the game is starting there ... well ok i try ... but this days alot of them have similar game play and mechanics and if the guy try all these game and in one of them get hook in less then 2h you just lost the game cuz your game take way longer to get fun ...btw if you compare thoses games to wow were the easier to max lol runescape classic maxing have fun XD if you ever play osrs or rs2 and think that was long ... nothing compared to runescape classic :) so yeah wow was way more easy then classic to max actually 1 skill of runecape classic was like your lv 60 max with all proffesion include :P so ya nothing to compare 18 skill ... well gl :P like doing wow classic 18 time to max 1 account lol

Exactly. I have no idea where Josh got the idea that Warframe players want everyone to play a vague 100 hour game for "a good 2 hour experience that comes later" and will gatekeep it from anyone that wants new player experience to be better... He said Warframe has no story, and people told him to story starts at Second Dream... That's all.

@@ayushdeshmukh284 the second dream story is still pretty far in, more than people will go if they don’t like the beginning

@@breadlover8484 I think the fastest I’ve ever reached second dream is in 30 hours of gameplay, still a time sync

I started it years ago and watching Josh's video saw they had improved the tutorial quite a bit since i started.....though it barely scratches the surface of the stuff needed

@@SuperLogan8054 As a WF vet of six years, 4.4k hours playing missions, over 7k hours on Steam and god knows how much time spent researching and reading the wiki and many other sources, I couldn't have agreed more with each and every point Hayes made on both his first video about Warframe and the "it gets better after 100 hours" video he based on honeymooners desperately trying to defend the game. That said I do hope he'll get to make an update after 100 hours into the game. That's a surefire way for him to run into the game gating him out of progression due to inventory slots, unless he pays up or dives into the market and get scammed by grifters until he understands pricing.

I really liked Warframe, but after campaign ended, mobs became basically unkillable even when I maxed out mods, so I just quit after trying to get better for a week.

2000+ in warframe here and I gotta say I won’t return to the game anytime soon. The Dev doesn’t even know what to do with the game anymore, railjack mechramech .the game lore doesn’t even exist at this point

@@Ronin3run you used a wrong combination then. Simply putting maxed mods on a gun won't make it kill level 50 ads in one hit. The problem is that the game doesn't really explain that very well, especially the way status effects work.

if you have to invest 100 hours for the game to get good then the game is not that great imo. youre right, it has to be good enough to get you through the first 100 hours. if the first 100 hours of the game are not good im just not really inclined to invest that kind of time to a crap game.

It shouldn't be it gets good, but it gets even better. Warframe does get better, but it's not enough to say it gets even better. Those 100 hours need more content and they should make quests explaining in more details their systems, but I must also say they have something similar inside the game, a tutorial, but it is hidden and doesn't get mentioned at all. I played over 200 hours until I found out that existed in the game.

@twizzm If you’re playing that card then “a good game” is subjective as well, some think solo player games are the best, some say RPG games are the best and some might say MMO’s are the best game.

A game that gets better later on (FFXIV) is better than a game that gets worse later on (WOW). It is even better than a game that stays the same later on (GW2). But you are right - a game that gets good later on (WF) is the worst. But people needs to understand that 'better' for you does not mean better for someone else. These whole things are subjective.

@@k.vn.k Precisely, if you want to talk about the perfect MMO, it just doesn't exist some people will still say that A is still better than B no matter what. It's all subjective and most relies on a persons inherent likes and dislikes and even their experiences in said game that give them that bias.

EVE is good from the first hour. What needs to get good is you, the player. This is a thing in MMOs, the leveling is part of the experience and you need to grow with it

@@user-xl5kd6il6c i would say the tutorials are pretty bad tbh, but they are kinda necessary to understand the systems since there is so much player freedom that you won't even know what you're doing otherwise. this is probably the one game i don't really know how to fix in that aspect, except for possibly fixing the base UI to be easier to understand (that was my main issue when starting, i couldn't find half of the things i was looking for because if i remember correctly, they don't even tell you there's a search function)

@@mithshude there was a search function?

@@2000nerffreak yup, it's above the star systems/planets in upper left and works for everything including the menus (which is not clarified in game as far as i know) Took me a while to figure out

@@mithshude 10 years and never found it lol

Not a good summary. Yes, it should start good, but it doesn't need to get better after a hundred hours.

​@@Peetah112 Wrong.

@@chuckchan4127 Then at least provide an argument. Not sure how you can argue that a game NEEDS to get better after 100 hours, though.

@@Peetah112 No.

@@chuckchan4127 So you have no argument and you're just emotionally immature. Gotcha.

Bruh. If the first seasonal event doesnt drop a neato gun and the seasonal exotic is lame, just dont even play. Lmao

i gave up in forsaken.....not coz cayde died, but because I didn't get to pull the trigger!

So very very true

Every season it gets a lot worse 🤦‍♀️

Hating on destiny 2 is a meme, it's good right now

I also just quit because of the crafting times to be honest. The story never really interested me at all, it felt like some c tier generic sci-fi story, until you get to the one planet where they're all enslaved, but by then I'm already burnt out on the story and I can't get into it, and that's assuming you've managed to work through the rats nest of mechanics, prerequisites, and hidden quests like you said. But even beyond all that, just grinding and getting gear was fun, until I had to wait TWO REAL LIFE DAYS, after grinding for longer than even that, just to use the fucking gear or especially CHARACTERS that I had spent all that effort for. That was what pissed me off and has killed any future interest in that game. I cannot get back into it just because I know that exists, even after it's already etched it's 150 hours out of my soul. It's insulting to my intelligence, at least wow has the decency to pretend it's for some gameplay reason, but in Warframe it's just "lul here's a fucking timer watch it shithead". Just "I'm going to timegate you for no practical reason at all, and you're gonna have to deal with it". I mean fuck even joining a clan, if you want to socialize and go to their base, 24 hours. At least that one I can defend as people not farming clans for blueprints, but even then every other guild system in games leaves that up to players, as it should be.

@m that's not exactly fair to accuse it of. Warframe isn't even close to being as repetitive as most racing games and first person shooters, or even RTS games. Warframe has several different mission types, granted they mostly boil down to a few slightly different flavours of slaughtering fodder enemies as fast as possible, three different flavours of escort missions, two different flavours of puzzle room raid missions, and a few different flavours of point defense missions. Then there's stuff like eidolon and orb hunting later on and the failed pvp modes that nobody wants to bother with. If you only play a couple different mission types mission types in the most efficient meta frame with the most efficient meta weapons, that's on you.

@@blujay1294 I kind of understand the crafting times. They're built into the game to make you space out your play sessions, logging in every day to play with a new toy that just got ready for you. It'll also encourage to play different parts of the game while they wait for something new to be finished building so they can take it to the current meta mission for ranking and forming gear and then be done with it.

@@deetsitmeisterjd The leveling system was made for you to use each and every weapon instead of sticking to the meta weapons, you'd probably find a lot more fun and cool weapons like than in a system without it.

@@deetsitmeisterjd Yeah, it's somewhat annoying until you get higher up in the MR ratings and you get to mod new weapons without ranking them up first. It also makes you try weapons you otherwise wouldn't have tried.

same man. played wf since 2014 and was on and off until ab 2019, i just didnt want to give it up but its just not worth the time. 😂

@@bigfootisreal_ loool i dont get people im mexican my ingles is not good i undertand so good warframe the first time i play i let my newphew play and he get it real fast and i was wtf people are just dumb as fuck

@@bigfootisreal_ Play for fun bro. Im MR 17 and ive been playing since 2016 I play whatever and whenever I want. Much better

I remember when I first tried Warframe, I thought it was fun until I had the opportunity to build my first "frame" or whatever and noticed that there was a waiting period. Apparently, the factory needed to manufacture and assemble the warframe before it was delivered to me or something so that I could use it. Of course, I could pay money to skip the time limit but it was very reminiscent of mobile games and their predatory systems designed to try and get you to spend money. I get that it's a free to play game, but no thanks. I'm not going to wait another 3+ days to play a new character I just spent all that time trying to unlock. As Josh Hayes talked about in the video, I don't have that much free time to really be that invested into a game that is going to make me wait to play it anyway. I'll go elsewhere where I can play without any limitations beyond those I already have. This goes into the other argument Josh Hayes here is talking about: apparently you need to play X hours to acquire enough materials and what not. I'm glad I didn't sink too much time into it to have spent more than 300+ hours before realizing it wasn't worth it.

@@WigglyBro XD but u can go to play other game and came back when ur warframe and wepons are build XD i always do the same thing

@@biodidu25 How is that relevant to what OP said?

@@Hooga89 no, casuals dont buy platinum, hardcore player do. Plats is the way Warframe finance itself.

@@Hooga89 people discovered warframe because it was a free game, they wont spend a dime on a game they dont know yet.

@@Hooga89 "The casuals keep the game alive" no, they dont. They barely play the game to begin with, just look at League of Legends. Hardcore players are the main source of revenue for F2P and subscription based games, because casual players dont commit enough to spend money into the game with cosmedics or year long subscriptions.

@@areoblast1 Hardcore players mostly just trade stuff to the whales for plat.

The early gameplay isn't bad, they just do a shit job at explaining what to do. It's too overwhelming and they don't explain vital systems of the game, so once you spend some days playing it you start to understand how the gamr works then you'll find yourself enjoying it more and more.

Idk, I got to around the Sacrifice quest line before I quit, partly because of the lack of cross save/platform transfer since I switched from Xbox to Ps5, but also because the game devolved to so many different grinds that only exist so you can grind more, stuff like the arcanes and corrupted mods as well as rivens and farming ending being so frustrating to do

Yeah it didn’t stick with me lol. I understood how to do all the missile jumps and aim yourself and built a couple Warframe cause my friends kept saying it gets good and just get serration mod or whatever and it just didn’t stick for me. Idk if the story was just not that interesting or the way Warframes look overly fleshy and slimy/shiny was off-putting to me or the really long craft wait time system was the issue but I never got hooked.

literally me with this random Korean/Chinese MMO. Not just because it gets good later on, it's because I bought it and has nothing else to do. I downloaded it so I might as well play it. A lot of people wanted to play some random MMORPG more just because it's free, just like me. Back then at least.

1 week to grind for warframe and weapon blueprints, 1 week to grind for mats and 1 week to actually craft them just so they can sell you time boosters!!! (I know it's not one week but it's still a long time) Yeah fuck Warframe. It has really good features (combat, movement, dojos) but the game actually manages to make the fun aspects of the game into a chore

The 100 story quest swamp from ARR into Heavensward has definitely killed many people's interest in the game.

Tbh I was just excited there was more stuff to go through

I still don't understand this. I reached Heavenswars story in exactly 57 hours.

"And since all these people read the second part, they must have liked it. So no, it won't get better for me." Such a great perspective on it too. Something kept them sticking around, so maybe it only 'gets better' later if your expectations are already low enough you'd watch 3 seasons of it in the first place. Sometimes I see it with people who love its original medium and can't come to terms with the new format's representation being crap. Some people have low standards, some people have different tastes, some are deluding themselves.

@@Fadaar Dr. Stone in my honest opinion the first 5 episodes are boring (my opinion), when Senku meets the people village is where the really fun begin. As someone is not from United States I can get why people prefer more DBZ than old Dragon Ball, one start the action part more intensed than the other.

Would this be the opposite to, i like their old stuff, better than their new stuff.

@@Fadaar I think, if somebody dislikes something so much, they are quitting playing/watching/reading it, you should just let them. With TV shows an example for me was The Walking Dead. I disliked this very much, because it was boring ah to me. I didn't even finish the first episode the first time I started watching. People kept telling me though how it would get so much better, so I rewatched the episode and quit again. Then I was told it was just the first episode that sucked and I actually watched the first season. I did not like it. And now people always tell me how it only gets good after the first season, but I am very sure that for me it won't. If you are willing to quit something, you should, because obviously it's not for you.

Books and TV shows are a bit different in my opinion, because the creator can't go back and fix it. But the Warframe dev could, just like wow did with exiles reach.

Most likely, they included all people who play games tho. That means mobile games, facebook games and games like bejeweled/card games. By that metric ofc - even my 90y old grandpa would be included as a gamer, who plays chess once a week.

yeah. it's off lmao. the birth rate is 1.68 and under in western countries.

@L M Exaclty, which means that for every farther with 1 kid, which is quite common, at least where I live, there has to be one with 5 (not entirely true, as enough with 3 or 4 would result in the same, but you get the point), which I have never met personally. Not to mention all the gamers that don't have kids. I'm not saying the statistic is wrong, just weird and if I cared more, with do some research into it.

@@deetsitmeisterjd Whatever label you give them, they are still the majority of paying customers

No, thats someone who has their priorities straight. 8 hours of work, plus commute, dinner with family, maybe watch a show with everyone, housework. Getting enough sleep does not leave 4+ hours a day for gaming during the week.

Don't play MMOs then

@@Emilstekcor What a strange thing to say. There's MMOs that are fun from the get go.

@@omologo95 name one

@@Emilstekcor FF14, BDO, hell even WoW's fine from the start. Like, BDO is the glaring example here. It just starts to suck at endgame.

@@omologo95 ff14 is the single worst most boring start until you beat heavenward, bdo is fun just cause crazy combat and ultimately the same problem as Warframe though, and I never played Wow though if you are reaching for blizzard you've already lost.

Overall MSQ by 20%, ARR specifically was cut by aprox 34%, with some questlines completely gone now.

To be fair, when I first started playing FFXIV, the amount of people I saw saying “it gets good after ARR” was insane

@@ryanmorrissette27 I'm not defending ARR or saying it's wrong. Just found it funny how chat was going "FF STANS MAD" when talking about ARR because it was the FF players themselves saying how it gets better after ARR and that ARR was too long

the majority of people shitting on ARR havent played ARR since it launched, they have gutted ARR at least three times since then. there is so much missing from the experience its like comparing Vanilla WoW with Cata WoW in terms of the early game. All the while people havent played the early levels since vanilla continue to shit on the early game experience telling people its a slog when new players come in during cata.

Warframe was that, but on steroids. Bitching about "new player experience" has been a thing for pretty much entirety of game's existence, specifically because of how community in Warframe works. It's in large part about "hey, want to play this awesome ninja game with me?" followed by the vet and his friend experiencing the new player experience together. And then new player quits because they're not invested in the game yet. It always sucked. But it's an MMO looter shooter, and that's actually pretty typical of that genre. Warframe is just on the extreme of that genre, with exceptionally good gameplay and mid to early end game, and exceptionally terrible early game.

I know. My problem is I played on console with friends. Once I went to PC they want me to start over alone.

@@kevonwalker82 That is fair but cross saves are less important than an overall good game.

@@zaferoph True. The issue is I built up a character and had a guild on console. I have no PC friends.

This is the opposite of what I want from an mmo.

@@VadamDxD what I think they meant by that is that the story experience isn't somehow reduced for the sake of making it an MMO. Playing ESO solo does not make you feel like you have a worse experience for it. If it had an "offline mode" which tweaked the game a bit to be more balanced for solo play you'd pretty much get an equivalent experience. The game is a good single player game with a good MMORPG implementation.

Yeah, time gates are a bummer, but it's the price we gotta pay for the game to be free to play and not pay 2 win... It's not like there's a competitive, hardcore end-game metagame at the end of the grind, so there's no need to hurry really

@@SuperLogan8054 We can tell you're inexperienced. Time-gating is a thing, you'll know soon.

@@magnolia549 my mans hasn't farmed fortuna or poe rep and asked himself why the fuck is he even doing this shit in the first place

@@AndruSouls the game is pay to win, look at rivens

@@filipgabriel1262 rivens are not a necessity, so I wouldn't call warframe p2w, the biggest problem with the new player experience is having to deal with a market they have nothing of value to offer to, therefore taking longer if you want to keep a few frames or get new weapons/mods

Not really. Skyrim intro is good as an introduction to the game, it's cinematic, it showcases the major parts of incoming story. It's simply that Skyrim also has place for multiple playthroughs, and those playing the game again have no use for this long intro. Asmon among other things has very specific tastes, so of course he would be the one who can't imagine waiting 5 minutes before getting into gameplay.

I think you're also ignoring the fact that mods are for people who've already played and finished the game. So it's not suprising that one of the most popular mods is a mod that let's you accelerate the beginning of a game and try out new things.

I mean, it autosaves as "prisoner" when you get to character creation, meaning whenever you want to start a new game without the wagon ride you can just load that save then immediately create your character..

I think the alternate start mod is popular because it gives you a different character start and puts you in a totally different location, sometimes even giving you a good gear set to start with, even allowing different starts depending on which race you play. Not just because it skips the opening cinematic.

Of course a modding community is going to love a mod that skips an unskippable cutscene, most modders have played through the game multiple times. I'n fact Skyrim does a superb job of hooking new players, I mean what other games first moments of gameplay is trying to survive a dragon attack?

Thats how it should be, but unfortunately the former is used WAY more often than the latter.

this sums it up perfectly

Well never a dull moment after that first 100 hours anyway

And there are idiots like this reviewer that still miss the basics and even then refuse to seek a tutorial just to further the viewpoint they want their audience to take

The point of the video is not that its not true tho. Its that if a game needs at least x number of hours to get good, then its a flawed game.

I stopped several times because they have so many mandatory quests that is just go here go here it just bored me out. Stopped now on second expension the story is also pretty bad there.

Ff14 is way more grind than wow is

I had to take several breaks due to getting bored to death, the first one before I even got out of town. FF14 leveling has way too little combat and way too much filler dialogue and travel quests.

@@SwaggerHarrystlyesminecrafter as somebody who levelled a wow character to 60 and is currently leveling a ff character through the end of ARR, this is only true if you use a weird definition of “grind” that makes wow’s leveling out to be equal to ff’s. That’s just not true at all. FF’s grind has so much stuff to do when you’re not “grinding” - crafting, exploration, filling logs are just a few examples of things I do when I’m tired of the “grind”. Furthermore, while FF’s leveling grind is longer, god its so much better man. Its just so so so much better, even in ARR. getting to level 60 in WoW was one of the least fulfilling gaming experiences of my life, and the second I got to the Lich King zone and saw the first quests were no different from the ones I had been doing, I was just OUT, man. FF, even in ARR, is just so much more compelling. The writing and worldbuilding and characters and exploration were all just better, not to mention how cool class quests are. FF’s leveling experience is just so much better, and saying anything else is just disingenuous. Wow I said a lot lmao, its a topic w a lot to it and its interesting to me tho

@@TheImmortalPoetPOE lol, if "leveling" was your priority then you're doing it wrong.. if you wanted combat while leveling then why dafuq are you doing msq. lmao better just do dungeons if you wanted to fight mobs, and then when you're 50 then skip the story if you hated it, record was 7 hours ARR speed run, you can maybe do it in 24 hours

While I agree with what you’ve posted here, I would point out that there’s a difference between simple and boring. MMOs should start simple and I’d never suggest otherwise, but they should still interest players, a sprout should want to play more. For an example from a previous final fantasy, FF9 starts off simple in both narrative and gameplay. You don’t have most of the characters and the few you do have don’t have their abilities yet, but you get an inkling of what will follow and a fantastic opening act and story hook. Once you’re out of the starting town, you WANT to see what will happen :)

It also makes sense, it would be kinda weird if you are straight up a beast from the get go or even early on. Same goes for the story in a sense, not always but sometimes.

Yes things should start simple, but those simple things should be fun. As a non-MMO example, Breath of the Wild starts in a smaller zone with few abilities, but the core gameplay is still fun even before the full features of the game come into play.

@@Lyu-Phy agreed, power feels best when earned, even if the player uses that power just to wreck easy stuff. There is something very cathartic about coming back to early areas and getting revenge on things that gave you grief. I also agree this should go for the story too. Ff14 strangely shows both the good and the bad. The start is kinda shit, you’re killing literal ladybugs and squirrels as basically pest control. It sucks and it’s boring. Before long though, you’re killing demigods, personally leading the charge against the villains and genuinely saving the world by the end of the story. After that, your character is actually seen as a legendary hero, there are very few who don’t know of you. Many quest givers refuse to give you the boring jobs because they feel it’s beneath you. From both a gameplay and narrative standpoint, you earn your power and it feels great.

@m No, I watched the entire thing start to finish.

Yeah, exiles reach is great. A self contained story that shows you mechanics and even its own dungeon. It just was introduced way too late, really.

Eh some of his videos I feel like he just tells the audience what they want to hear.

@@Apav1x ironic that you’re saying this on an Asmongold video.

I think the average gamer spending 1 hour a day is bullshit. I think the average gamer is closer to 4

@m I can tell you have no friends whatsoever lol

@@D.Snutts lol I think ive played cs go for maybe 8 hours during the last two weeks and that’s a pretty average amount to me. I have other shit to do, both things that I have to do and other ways to spend my free time. I’m not alone in this, there are many other gamers like this. If the game industry wants to keep making more money and produce more interesting experiences it needs to also attract people who cannot invest more time than say 1 hour day into videogames.

You sound like the type of guy that says "I only play single player games because the story so much better"

@m chill, dude. You ain't getting any more friends with that attitude. lol

Thx, i still going to try kms tho

@@zentyrant but…but…but he said don’t give up! 😂

Just keep living. It gets better 262800 hours in

@@DadsCigaretteRun death is just social construct See you in the next shards

@@zentyrant I’ll get the punch

That's true, and that's something i try to say when i talk about Monster Hunter, especially it's combat system... it's very rewarding and i love the weight and impact of it, but it is not for everyone, and that's fine

I don't know the video you're referencing but I feel like those numbers sound accurate. 4 hours a day and/or 28 hours a week would be a hardcore gamer. I don't think it's wrong to consider less than that casual. I don't know what club you're referencing. Just being considered a Hardcore gamer? For that the numbers seem accurate.

It’s crazy how widely opinions can very. I personally loved playing through every bit of wow and have leveled over a dozen characters, that game hooked me hard.

Wow is garbage, it's just a nostalgia prison for its older players that came when its gameplay was actually an innovation compared to other games

Played WoW at launch quit by level 10 came back like 8 months later and it didn't particularly get fun until like 40 imo and then I was hooked through WOTLK every day.

yea, i only got into WoW years ago after finishing wc3... i miss the old wc3 times...

@@WobiKabobi yeah totally i was addicted to wow worse than i was to cocaine LOL

But only like 100 hours of that is actual playtime

it gets good when you buy 2000 costumes to convert to cron stones

10k afk hours lol

@@osuplaeyurreallygood I've played with many hundreds of people in various guilds and only heard of 4-5 total costumes bought for this reason. It just doesn't happen very much.

Eh as a BDO veteran it's the opposite. I miss being a new player, wondering what's up with the black spirit, meeting new people and asking them how to do x or y, figuring out shit myself. There was so much to do, guilds were actually active ( I remember getting into a guild and the same day going on a boat trip to fish for a guild mission with them). It was a pretty great new player experience. Now all you do is grind, take a break when you lose billions to failed enhancements, come back and repeat. I've been on a break for months now, and I cant seem to really get back into it again. It's not like Warframe, it doesn't get better with time, once you reach a certain level it gets worse.

Prolly cuz you saw cat girl boobies on character creation. 😂

@@Zharina never me 🤣🤣🤣🤣

I uninstalled it after 24 hours, wasn’t interested in the story

@@czsup8967 what a shame, ain’t for everyone.

warrior of light

This. My friend recently convinced me to try FF14 and after a week of playing I lost all interest because of how much I disliked ARR. When I told my friend he told me: oh you just have to get through ARR and then it gets good. I told him I was not gonna waste 20-30 hours of my life in content I did not enjoy just to get to the good part and he got mad and called me a casual.

i think you're placing this on the wrong point because if the story has a bad pacing then that's in the story critique department and not the gameplay department because in the game you can skip everything, what the video is about is you have to "play" it 100 hours to get better, not "watch"......the video is about a critique on "gameplay" and not "story telling" every story ever told has at least once had a problem on pacing but its not really a major problem in videogames because someone can just skip it and find joy in raids or side contents in the first 2-5 hours. The whole point of the video is that the "gameplay" gets good after 100 hours and that is not a problem that ff14 has because some people just get stuck in gold saucer or play triple triad, or fish forever. FF14 has no 100 hour gameplay problem, it has a ARR pacing problem and that is not the point of this video. Some people may dislike the gameplay because they have a different taste like a fast paced action and you couldn't find joy in it then that is your opinion, i will not argue with anyone who didn't enjoy the gameplay and no amount of hours played will change the 2.5 GCD and if they hate it then it will never change even for 100 hours gameplay

It's really a paradox The game truly is great, the combat improves dramatically, the story and lore everything about the game is really good.... But only after you've gotten like let's say 50 hours once you've reached the end of ARR. Personally, while I didnt mind the beginning of ARR, I know many people dont like it and there are issues with the pacing and slow nature to it. The solution could be to just buy a skip, but then unless you go our of your way and spend an hour or 2 reading up on what happened, then you'll be completely lost and lose half of the emotion that comes from going through base heavensward. But then again, for everyone that says to just get through ARR and or skip it to get to the better half, theres probably a few that will Chastise you for doing that. To Mecha Muffin, I just recommend either playing it on the side till you reach like lvl 40 or something since that's where it picks up, or skip it and do your homework and read. It really is a good game, but your friend shouldn't have inherently called you a casual for that.

One of the few times I feel compelled to comment on ARR. I agree that ARR is the weakest of story, but part of that was several reasons. They had to redo from 1.0 which is even worse than 2.0. 2.0 was a massive improvement over 1.0. It actually isn't THAT bad but it has aged. So a new player who hasn't played 1.0 would definitely find the beginning of the game ARR would find less engaging. However, what does help is the community. So people who are on FFXIV have now a lot of people willing to help I think curb it. I mean often times when people tell others to play a long time often times they leave the other player to figure it out on their own and if you have people playing ALONE on an MMO because they have to catch up to their friends - that's terrible game design. Whereas FFXIV community wise do encourage others to help new people out, share their experiences. When you know your friend is going into a dungeon you have memories of and want to help them out - especially see their reaction... it helps the game a lot even through its low points of ARR. It is a smarter game design that has people who have veterans around to help out in older content. FFXIV is certainly not perfect but at least it was wise enough to make sure their community from the most part is more welcoming and encourages vets to play with newer people. Even though I don't play as much these days, there's times I hear someone in a friend's Free Company (Guild) mention they're going into old content and it's like "Ooh I'll help" because you remember that dungeon/raid and want to see their reaction. Or it could be wanting to help out because you remember a group that DIDN'T want to help and you want to give your fellow player a more positive experience.

It's kind of a paradox though. When ARR released... it was just ARR. Yes, it dragged on a bit, but there wasn't that much to do. Finish the story and then... level other classes? That was pretty much it. No housing, only the first coil for raids, no crystal tower (2.1) and so on. You had to wait for more content, so the story was paded. Then every patch was actualy episodic. Yes, it's a slug to do the MSQ for the 2.1 to 3.0 part now, but it was not designed to be experienced in one sitting in the first place. So yes, it would make sense to go back and trim the unnecessary parts and streamline everything a bit... not because it was bad when it was released, but because it doesn't makes as much sense today in the greater context. But when it released, it made perfect sense. Also, the game added early content later. Real content, like the golden saucer, not just endgame. Starting the game today is very different (and better) than when it released.

The modern way of making an mmorpg is trash tho, i liked the older systems.

If you knew anything about all the games persona 1, 2is 2ep,3. 4 you would know they are SLOWBURNERS, stop complaining about popular franchises without doing research

Lol. Well, guess you proved their points in the video.

@@battlerushiromiya205 That has nothing to do with the fact that what he says is still right. Persona games are slow as fuck at the start (tho personally Person 5 feels pretty alright in terms of pacing, except for some restrictions early) you are literally confirming it. There is clearly ways to make the early game of all the persona games a bit more interesting, exciting and less slow burny. Its just how it is.

I didnt really mind the pacing in persona 5, i kinda got hooked right away.

@@brosephstinson1297 fair point i never disagreed what im saying is they are popular for being slowburners, and going at their own pace. If it aint broke dont fix it.

The story is cringe weaboo shite.

@@cosmancho2959 And your example of a good story?

@@kalabhitimisuki9473 W3, Bloodborne. Dragon age Origins, Mass Effect Trilogy, Swtor story classes are also far superior to ff14.

"sorta slow" now thats the biggest understatement of the century

@@cosmancho2959 to you

Yeah when I started in February I really wished that they would polish up ARR more since it's literally the thing everyone goes through to get to the later expansions. But realistically I think they are swamped as it is making endwalker and FF16 But we can dream

@@kristopher4557 I just adore the expansion voice cast and find Sam Riegel as Alphinaud incredibly jarring.

If they had the budget that WoW does (or at least closer to it), then they might be able to do that but at the moment it would take time an d money away from the new expansion and content. That's just MMOs in general though.

Definitely wish they redub ARR.

Too much? A full-time work week is 40 hours minimum- ideally five days of 8 hours shifts. 100 hours is more than double what some people work, so if a game can't attract you within that time frame what is it if not unnecessary amounts of labor?

​@@vividao4123 You're misinterpreting my comment. I'm not defending the game. My comment was directed toward society and most people's way of life. There are over 300 hours in a couple weeks, but most people can't squeeze in 100 hours because they're working all the time. Therefore it's kind of sad, if you wish the majority of people in society had more free time to do the things they love outside of work.

Doesn't FFXIV have more players than BDO though?

Black desert has nice combat but the story is so lame I stop playing it because the story.

I showed a friend who joined more recently a chart I made, just showing side by side the dungeons released with patches. In ARR they had the pattern of 1 original, 2 hardmode dungeons per patch, however they were all sidestories, with the exception of Snowcloak and KotL. Still, that was 15 dungeons in the "expansion" patch cycle. In Heavensward that reduced to 1 each down to a total of 10, but they also made most of the original ones relevant to the story rather than just having them unlocked as a sidequest. In Stormblood they lessened even more and went to a 1 - 2 -1 - 2 - 1 with only the first and last patch dungeon having msq relevance, reducing the number of patch release dungeons to 7, the patches that had 2 releases were the only ones featuring a hardmode dungeon. But It's Stormblood, it was kinda meh anyhow... Then Shadowbringers came and released 1 dungeon per patch (total of 5), with each being tied into the story. It's fascinating to see the progression. If you pay attention to what other stuff they released, things like Diadem, PotD, Eureka... they seem to aim to diversify the content to beyond just dungeons & running roulettes, while making the dungeons more meaningful from a story perspective. I doubt they'll go below 1 dungeon a patch, cause that'd be hard to justify, so we can expect at least 5 dungeons over endwalker's patch cycle, maybe more if they bring back some hard mode dungeons - which were missing in Shadowbringers but that's reasonable, we were in another realm. We're reasonably at the lowest number of dungeons per patch cycle, it can only go back up from here - or stay as new status quo. (Note I never counted the 3 max level dungeons that are in the x.0 version, 1 story finale and the initial expert roulette. these have remained consistent in each expansion)

ARR needs much faster catchup mechanics. It’s a grind to catch up to the current content

some of the issues with in particular the 3 dungeons per patch was the quality of the dungeons. there was almost always that one that became dread/take significantly longer to complete than the others and tanks/healers would just quit if they got it on roulette. many of these dungeons much later received nerfs (pharos, etc) that being said, I do miss the continuation of the side stories of the HM dungeons and I think a cool 3rd iteration would be to reverse the flow. after a 2nd (hm) clearing of a location, administration of the locations defenses is given to the player to organize and setup npcs to defend the location from mobs [stronghold defense]

Having also played ARR on it's release, I would agree with this. Also, something that people often overlook or aren't aware of, ARR was a game that was planned, developed and released in about two years. Two years. How many modern games out there have an entire development cycle that short? Could it have been better on release? Sure, it also could have been far worse (looking at you 1.0). ARR was great in the context of creating a game that bridged the gap from the fire that came before, to the birth of a new one.

doesnt the expansions have more raids, and raid quest chains?

Yeah, that is why I don't think FFXIV falls into this trap though a lot of veterans probably think it does. If you don't enjoy ARR at all, you probably won't enjoy the expansions either. Yeah the expansions are an improvement, but they will not completely change the mind of someone who really did not enjoy the early content.

@@Plainsburner I might have mentioned that I'm new to the game. Even so, from what I've seen from the trailers it's easy to trust what you're saying here. It looks like nothing is completely game changing, and I'm really glad about that, because I'm loving what the game IS.

the issue with naysayers about XIV is they listen to people who havent done ARR since it launched, shit all over the experience. ARR has been trimmed about three different times, and the current incarnation is after the most recent trim in 5.3. honestly people wont be satisfied until they just remove the story altogether. hopefully SE stops listening to them and leaves ARR as it is. I cant stop people from coloring new players perception by saying its a slog, sadly enough.

To me ARR is good and i like read and do sidequest for more lore and explore and doing other thinks chat with ppl and hangout. Thats the point of a MMORPG !!

Completely agree, although the dungeons and raids are really fun.

There's a difference between "it gets good" and "you get good".

You barely need any skill or resources to "get good" in Warframe. And it's specifically engineered that way by Digital Extremes. That's why the PVP aspect of the game has been a barren wasteland for years. Once you've seen enough you quickly figure out how to do everything at a glance and you can tell when new changes or pieces of gear will be worth investing into or discard fodder. And for those not as knowledgable, content creators cover this type of stuff instantly because they make a living out of it. Digital Extremes mostly cater to the mid range players, because they're the ones who are most prone to spending IRL money and whiteknight the shit out of the game once they're heavily invested. Been there myself actually, as fuckin' ashamed as I was to have done that, I can admit it now. Funnily enough, there's a lot of the shitty kind of competitiveness in the coop parts of Warframe, which is over 90% of the game. Admittedly not too many lash out, but I've had my fair share of people spouting nonsense like "I beat you to the mission extraction point by ten seconds, you're worthless!" and being dead serious. Meanwhile I was killing every enemy in sight and not saying a word 🤦‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤡

@@HejC8xmRICWgUCj1dhPvhTFX Well i was playing World of Warships for a long time. Long time players do not want new players to have Tier 10 ships immediately at the start of the game. They want you to grind through 9 shitty Ships because every one else had to do the same. When the new players have their first T10 ship, they see people play mostly only super rare overpowered ships which you can not buy anymore. So new players wasted time and maybe even money and in the end they are still getting destroyed in the matches, because they do not have this one super rare ship from 2016 which was removed from the shop because it was so OP. But guess which ship the Veteran players are still playing? And the super greatest newest ships are locked behind Steel currency. You can only get this currency by playing clan battles or ranked, but you have to win a lot. You must be the 0,1 Percent to get the currency on regular basis. Or you whale SUPER HARD. Buying the 130 Dollar 1/4 year season pass. Then you still have to grind day in day out to get the steel at the end of the seson pass. This are 520 Dollars over a year for around 9000 Steel. And the best steel ship, an aircraft carrier costs 32000 steel. And boy is it strong. Even an infant can nuke Battleships from orbit with it. And Vetetans WANT the game to be like this. And because of this the game is dieing.

@@Navinor NGL it's incredibly useful to have different takes from other games like World of Warships. We've had our own fair share of elitism like the type you're mentioning. *One* example is a couple years ago we got a new weapon in Warframe, Hema, that needed a shitload of resources to research in clans. The cost would exponentially go up depending on the ammount of people in the clan. But there was one specific resouce that's always been troublesome to grind for, Mutagen Samples. The smallest clan would need 5k of those, the biggest clans would need 500.000. At the time me and a couple other clan members organized ourselves and farmed for it hard. We got the needed ammount in a day or two with a full squad meant for griding, resouces boosters that double the drops and so on. For reference, I currently have 3919 of those, and I've been playing the game for six years. Digital Extremes never reduced the research costs of that item, their reasoning being "so we can respect the time players spent farming those Mutagen Samples". TBH I couldn't give two shits about that, early adopters always get the short end of the stick anyway and have had so for years. They should reduce the cost for other clans who haven't farmed that yet. No excuses. *Another* example is a resource they introduced to the game a while ago, universal medallions. There's other type of medallions, and each help you improve the relations with 6 different types of syndicates we have in the game (each gives you weapons and stuff). There's also a PVP syndicate, but again, PVP is a barren wasteland, so what people usually do to increase that PVP syndicate "standing" is to organize and then go "you kill me, get your daily standing, then I kill you and get my daily standing". Now, on release, Universal Medallions are quite hard to farm for up to this day, they can only drop as a reward from a specific game mode called Disruption, and each would increase any syndicates standing of your choice, INCLUDING the PVP one. That *apparently* didn't bode well with the twelve people still playing PVP. In response to that (must've been a VERY VERY vocal crowd I guess 🙄) Digital Extremes made it so Universal Medallions would not give you PVP standing anymore even though Universal Medallions are quite hard to grind for unless you go out of your way to do so. And then you still rely on on a 5% drop chance you only get access to once you've been playing a specific game mode for at the very least 20 minutes in which you must succesfully defend at least 3 to 4 objectives per round (there's 4 per round) to even get a chance at that 5% drop rate. You can only get drops from loot-table C (there's A, B and C), where the Universal Medallion can drop from, past 3 rounds. General consensus was we would've all grinded the shit out of that game mode for days on end in order to get the goodies from the PVP syndicate (I don't want to derail this too much, but long story short, since PVP has been historically based on Peer to Peer connections, the one hosting usually has the upper hand, then there's year long broken interactions people with money or a lot of time in get access to they can one shot you across the map with. This in itself drives people away from PVP a lot, like you were saying). I personally would've done that as well NGL. Since Digital Extremes made that Universal Medallion not so universal, the game mode ended up being pretty deserted once you've grinded the few useful drops the game mode has, and aside from people that wants to flex or content creator clickbait. This is because the game mode has enemies that are tankier than regular ones who rush to destroy those defense objectives, and people use those to test builds in long runs (Although in practice you can make those bullet sponges stop in their tracks for 4 seconds by spamming a tactic involving an item you can grind for or purchase for real money, as long as you have somewhat decent damage, they'll never get to the defense target regardless).

@@HejC8xmRICWgUCj1dhPvhTFX I thought those "race to extraction" stuff is simply a hidden subconcious game we all play and the "winner" gets to enjoy the short-lived and meaningless pride. Never thought someone would actually trash talk you for not getting to extraction faster than them

This is why boost exist

@@stormanator01 if a game ever asks you to pay money so that it takes away the boredom it inflicts on you, do yourself a favor and just immediately quit

@@wiefdiwbofdbw well I think he means your other jobs level faster depending on the highest job you have. If you have one level 77 job, every other job will get bonus experience up until the max level (in this case 77) you have unlocked

@@wiefdiwbofdbw yeaaaah this is false. Its not even remotely close to being like leveling an alt. Swapping jobs, im not locked out of content ive previously unlocked, im not sent back to repeat the same quests ive already completed, not locked out of mounting or flying. My inventory remains, my name stays the same so theres less confusion in guild chats due to keeping up with alts names. Im not required to unlock all the flight paths/ teleport nodes. Keybinds remain, hud remains, all settings are there not needing to set up new settings and addons. Aside from relics and any gear that doesnt carry to the new job, everything holds over. And if you think it’s special being a tank in classic like you cant just swap spec to arms and do that… kinda weird that you think youre filling a role no one else can when anyone can swap and do it.

There is a balance to this. Not everything needs to be voice acted. I like 14s approach where important parts are voice acted. If everything is voice acted, then I'm more likely to skip text, especially in ARR where they talk weirdly slow. When I tried genshin Impact, everything had voice acting. But I never felt the dialogue deserved voice acting when the story didn't feel like it was going anywhere or important.

Men all mmos need lore, story etc, and thats is the point of have texts to read and enjoy. Why are you playing a mmorpg if you dont like the lore. Thats way are mmorpgs, and in other hand other games lile fornitw cod, and whatever where is only to play and play withot context.

@@fervelozart3284 No one plays mmorpg because they are interested in a good story dude. Stop confusing RPG's with mmorpgs. MMO's have a story that can be good or bad, but no one plays/quits playing because of it, like they would with a typical rpg. The main reason people play mmo's is because they want to make friends and have social groups, and have a status in a world full of fantasy where they can RP and have fun. Not cuz "Oh wow this story is so great! time to pay 15 bucks a month!". The people who care about a good story game arnt looking for MMO's. They are playing the witcher 3 and other rpgs.

@@pit32 agree

@@fervelozart3284 people are interested in good lore, that's why people read paragraphs of text in, say, FF6, 7, etc, but basically nobody likes ARR

exactly, i started free trial one year ago, for me was on level 30 that i have the most great necessity of buying the game, because i was loving it so much

The biggest problem I have with early FF14 are its dungeons, because they... had ideas that ultimately just did not pan out. Mazelike dungeons especially.

dunno, some low level duties, like Crystal Tower or 60 level raids, are so dull, I want to leave everytime

I can't even pick up my account anymore because I've been out of it for at least 3 expansions

I play FFXIV and whenever someone buy a story skip or level boost, I cringe because they are denying themselves mostly good content (yeah, that post ARR thing is definitely on the weak side). The skill argument has merit, but it's temporary.

@@simplus1980 Agreed. It also slowly introduces you to boss mechanics and slowly overtime you get to see all the different types of things to look out for while keeping rotations up. Skipping and boosting to a max level and past the lower end bosses you lose that.

Dude, don't play FF just because of FOMO.

"average" is a wrong aggregation of values imo. They need to show the median

I don't think they *targeted* that demographic if you know what I mean.

Because if he stuck with his true opinions I dont think people would like it. Sadly ...

Thought i was the only one that noticed that

I was getting annoyed at all the repetition and thinking it ironic, then the payoff at the end :-)

Oh man, I didn't catch that. haha. smart

Men all mmos need lore, story etc, and thats is the point of have texts to read and enjoy. Why are you playing a mmorpg if you dont like the lore. Thats the way supos mmorpgs to be, and in other hand other games lile fornitw cod, and whatever where is only to play and play without context.

@@fervelozart3284 MMORPG, to be more precise. I think a lot of it just comes down to many people are just naturally NOT the demographic for MMORPGs. MMORPG players are actually a pretty small subset of all gamers, obviously, Devs can make games appeal to non-MMORPG players, but then likely the end results will no longer be an MMORPG isn't it. The fact that in recent years a lot of widely popular games are those that don't rely on character progression is a testament to this, MMORPGs are a niche market. But then if you are making those games, you are not making an MMORPG...

another problem with the 100 hour argument is that it really only applies to player who play consistently and are in search of a new main game. Most people that play consistently already have a main game, but are on a break from it right now. Therefore even if they play 5 hours a day it probably wont be enough to reach 100 hours before they are back to their main game.

Ignoring a well documented criticism of the game is just baffling. I think the early game is okay, but to act like there's 0 room for improvement to keep new players engaged is laughable.

I recently started FFXIV and I’m finishing up ARR. The new player experience is pretty bad. I’ve kept with it because of the story and I’ll keep going because I can push trough endless fetch quests etc.

"It gets good after 100 hours." Me:"Oh, I never meet someone with Stockholm syndrome before."

Hey, new player here and I'm 40ish hours into the game and yes, it's a fucking slog. The best thing a friend of mine did was making a summary of all of the important stuff so I could skip cutscenes, I'm actually amazed on how much filler there is.

The later content in FFXIV is better than the early content because the dev team got better, but for most people the early game is good and then it gets better. It's the difference between "it gets good after a 100 hours" and "it gets even better after a 100 hours". If new players are having fun already, we don't need to argue that it gets better because these new players are staying, at least for a while, anyway.