My GM was an ex-drill sergeant . Even my non-WoW playing friends found it hilarious to listen to him yell after a wipe. So fun. I miss it.

I remember causing a guild to split back in BC because I asked if which weapons would be best for a Rogue. Guild leader and officer spent hours arguing over it, woke up next day to no guild and found out that the argument boiled over to general issues with how the guild was run etc.

"we didn't have 15 dumb people... we had 40" lol

I remember I was put on a b-team in Lich because I wasn’t part of friends group of guild officers. Our b team ended up making more progress in raids than the A team. And ended up drawing the toxic players from the A team to to want to raid with us. Eventually the guild broke apart because b team felt good enough to just start their own guild 😂

The funniest part is when the ninja looter is just standing there disenchanting all the gear he stole, right in their faces lol

21:00 you mention how much it sucks being a tool for the leadership to gear up themselves. I was in a guild that did this to me and my friends during Nighthold. The GM's girlfriend played a mage and was absolutely terrible at the game, and always died less than 30 seconds into each encounter. For some reason, they decided that she needed better gear to not keep dying. And so they funneled everything to her until she had all of her BIS. Then she decided to change her spec from Arcane to Fire, and needed an all new set of BIS. THEN she decided maybe mage wasn't for her and so she decided to roll a hunter. I had mained a hunter since vanilla, but was playing a Ret Pally because I wanted to try it first in Legion. Around the same time that the GM's girlfriend decided to try hunter, my hunter (who was my actual main) got to the point where he could start raiding. I was told by my guild that if I wanted to raid, I would need to bring my paladin because all of the hunter gear that dropped would be going to the GM's girlfriend's new hunter. She was allowed to change her spec over and over, but I couldn't even bring my "alt" on alt day. At that point, I left, and almost immediately after, all of my friends left too, 7 of us in total (2 of whom were in the top 5 DPS for the guild and one was a core healer). We were done gearing the GM's girlfriend. We heard the guild didn't last more than 2 weeks after we were gone before it completely fell apart.

His fish drowned. Thrown in so quickly and casually. That buckled me xD

I actually got a laugh out of Onyxia's backpack. It's like "bro, what are you gonna do with all that dragonhide? It's a whole giant dragon!" "I'm gonna make a backpack. Stay in school kids."

Havent played wow since 2010, still watching

Cataclysm killed both my Alliance guild and my Horde guild. I remember logging in one day during the Firelands patch, and half my Alliance guild was gone (had 100 at the start of Cata, had 50 sometime during Firelands). And then during the Dragon Soul patch, my Horde guild had like 36 members (and it had like 116 during Firelands). Over the remainder of Cata, both guilds slowly dwindled to like 10 members. The Horde guild disbanded entirely in MoP, we didn't even bother to try and rebuild, we just said bye to each other and went and joined whatever guilds would take us. My Alliance guild, on the other hand, is still around, but it's been clinging to near death since Cata. During MoP and WoD we had a small resurgence of players, but the 10 members who were still playing since the days of Vanilla, they all left during WoD, leaving myself and one other guy the only remaining original members from Vanilla, and the two of us struggled to plan stuff with the guild since we both worked for a living, and all the new members eventually left because we weren't really doing anything. We did try promoting members to help with managing the guild, but most of them just ninja looted the guild bank and left. Since we couldn't keep risking ninja looters, we stopped trying to promote people who didn't show they were dedicated to the guild, but since the guild was mostly dead anyway, most people didn't want to bother. In Legion, we had 30 members and we just did casual everything. Casual raiding, casual PvP, but Mythic dungeons helped keep our guild alive during Legion. Everyone in the guild loved doing them, and they weren't like huge dedications of time like raids were, so that was what we primarily did that entire expansion. Of course some members wanted to do more, they wanted to raid, but we couldn't do more than normal, and it had to be planned out because the only guy, aside from myself, who wanted to learn the mechanics was the other Vanilla guy. Everyone else just treated normal like LFR, and granted, the guys with mythic dungeon gear didn't really need to worry that much, but everyone else was not geared very well. They would hit level 110 and want to raid immediately, without bothering to get even the slightest bit of gear. So by time BFA comes around, we have like 10 to 15 active members. By patch 8.1, the member count was down to 5 people. And finally... on Patch 8.2, the only other guy who had been in the guild with me since Vanilla, he finally told me he was done playing WoW, because it wasn't fun anymore. Every expansion felt like his character was getting weaker, rather than getting stronger. Everything felt like a game of chance, or an endless grind with not even the slightest hint of a end goal. When he left, the other remaining members also stopped either coming on, or left the guild, leaving me as the sole member of my Alliance guild, to this day. I try to ask the old members, the Vanilla players I remember sharing so much time with, to come back for Shadowlands, to give the game one last chance, but they are unsure if the investment in time is worth it. A part of me wants to leave the guild behind, to finally let it die and join a different guild... but another part of me holds on to the fact the guild was formed the first day of WoW, all the back in 2004. At this point, I just play solo with my Alliance, joining LFG/LFR or pugs for anything requiring more than one person. However, and luckily, I also play Horde, because at least there I can enjoy all the harder content.

Heart goes out to Asmon - he's seen so few good leaders that he thinks being abused shows that people care.

I get PTSD flashbacks whenever I hear the words "Clear comms."

I quit classic the week after BGs came out, up to that point I was in a guild who were clearing MC in about 90 minutes. The leaders were tyrannical, but tried to pass themselves off as "for the people". The most notable incident was when Staff of Dominance dropped, first one ever, and my warlock friend won the roll. 10 minutes later and everyone's still waiting for it to be handed out. Me and my friend are chatting in the WoW in-game voice chat while listening to the raid on discord. I heard him get pulled into the officer chat, and being shouted at and told he's not getting the staff. They refused to give him the staff because he had +3 on chest, and not +4. There was only one person on the server with the +4 enchant, and he was charging 600g + mats. My friend argued the point, but in the end it went to the next highest roll who was an officer.

A team and B team was pretty funny back in the day, I took over raid leading for B team and we passed the A team causing MASS drama and the A team just left the guild and formed their own guild lol.

Biggest guild breakers were BC expansion at #1 and Girls at #2. Lost so many good men because they had a kid 😢

Razorgore 15 years ago was a whole different ball game, we weren't all min/max spec with good gear. A lot of people didn't even know what stats were good back then never mind which gear to wear.

That's not taxes... resetting points is bailouts.

Back when I played my guild used a system where you were classified in tiers based on attendance and performance. We had Core Raiders, Raiders, Off spec. To reach Core Raider you had to maintain a very high attendance rate like 95% raid attendance over 2 months and receive majority vote from Officers, you could demote very easily from this. Raider was just a week of showing up. So for each piece of loot you would roll depending on which group you fell into. So the first rolls were Core Raiders. If no one rolled then Raiders, then if no one needed there then people could roll for their off specs. We were 3rd best on the server but it was clear the #1 guild Gentlemens Club used us to gear out new recruits or even alts because we had no shortage of people who would join reach Raider rank and then usually they would end up geared up within a month and then quit and next time we'd see them they were in GC on their 3rd or 4th raid group. I still think this was the best loot system for a guild. Even though some people thought it was just to show favoritism... when 15-20 people fall into the highest category it's hard to say it was actually favoritism. Occasionally we would favor a main tank for loot though cuz you need the tank to be able to handle the harder fights better but it would be voted on by the entirety of the Core Raiders.

My experience was completely the opposite, people who were raging were laughed at and called spergs, and they were kicked out. Everyone was very good and they knew what they were doing, and raging idiots were meant wasting time and comms getting sabotaged with nonsense that did not provide relavant info towards what we were supposed to be doing. I think the issue was most guilds were made up of teenagers instead of adults in their 30ies or 40ies

"You saved up all week for a flask..." That half sentence right there, that's the reason why I probably won't play BC.

When he mentioned “Vent” I had flashbacks to MOP/ WoD before Discord was a thing

Bro... "his Microwave is Broken so he can't Raid" LOL

As a non-WoW player, hearing of things that would cause entire clans (guilds) to split blows my mind, typically the reason for groups to die off is 99% inactivity and like .1% is from serious issues/implications

Had a guy named Blu who would scream CONSTANTLY at every little blip. Love that guy. Long live Eversor

Hes right about that having fun thing. When i played wow the game was fun for me sure. but if i was in a dungeon or a raid the fun was only given if nobody fucked up. Its just frustrating to die 5 Times in a row.

Our solution to having an A team and B team in Kara was to call them Team B and Team 2. They were constantly both terrible at different chances.

I think there are 3 tiers of players that you can go onto a raid with: 1) Have no clue what they`re doing - where should i stand? what is aggro? who do i heal and who do i not heal? how do i get back to the raid after we wipe? 2) Have a clue what they`re doing 3) Minmaxers - wont do first Kara boss without everyone in the raid being in full rares. As long as your group is in the second category and have a lot of patience then you`re golden. I always thought Kara was difficult because how everyone in the guild was preparing for it and planning. One day me and friends were just doing some quests or bg to get some better items and we loosely talked about an idea of grinding trash in Kara for some loot. Whatever would drop from them would be much better than we already had. So we assembled the group, had druid tank in half greens and we did some trash and since it was going on we decided to try and tackle one of the first bosses (a spider?). Went well, noone died. So we tried another. And so on and couple hours later we were struggiling with the prince. Few attempts and we decided to call it but for what we had that was a great achievement. But we were focused, no rush, proper leadership, great coordination, everyone understood what they were doing. That was the most fun i had with that game. Every other raid or dungeon i did i felt like people had no patience. One wipe and there was always someone leaving the group because reasons. You assemble a group for a 5man, you accidentally wipe on 2nd boss and then someone leaves and you`re locked to that dungeon. Waiting 15 minutes for someone else to join but in the meantime second char leaves.

Never got through WoW enough to do raiding (Tried to level up a char to max, got pretty bored after reaching level 60 and having barely encountered more than 1 person per zone.) but I used to do a lot of Destiny raiding and the thing about having to deal with those same 1-3 people is so true. Especially in Destiny when raids are literally only 6 people so each person has to do things perfectly for you to pass. I vividly remember starting a raid at 7pm and finally finishing it at 3am the following day. These raids are maybe meant to last an hour or two at most.

28:28 lol, I came from the EU DAOC and saw so much Ninja looting over the years.

12:12 I remember having a raid leader that would not scream, ever. But if you fucked up too much for the guild's standard (our officers were helping him watch everyone else in the raid aswell), oh man, he had words for you that nobody would ever forget.

I did exactly what Asmon said, I left a guild on Classic cos there was loot issues all the time. Personally I had enough when we had people waiting for a weapon drop and when there finally was one someone who already had an epic weapon from Molten Core won it just because they had the most dkp. It was not fair in my opinion cos he was very well geared and thus accumulating a shit ton of dkp each raid and could cherry pick whatever he wanted. There were other people there besides me who weren't as well geared. I did try to gear up, I didn't have all the time in the world to do so but I had the uttermost shittiest luck with dungeons. I literally had my first raid drop, won with dkp, on fucking January cos I missed 1-2 raids before that and lost so much dkp that I had hard time accumulating it to the level were I could even compete with new raiders(!). I liked classic on general but I surely chose the wrong guild to play with. They were all full of this "Yes we will help people get the attunements and loot" They did not help anyone outside their little group of 5. And somehow it was our fault that we were not done with the attunement to BWL within the first day or something?? And ofc it was my fault that I had real life duties that I needed to do and miss a raid once or twice in 4 months and then be called "selfish obnoxious bitch" for voicing my frustration. Yeah I left soon after that and I have not played since.

imagine playing classic and auto-attacking the same mob for hours and unironically finding that enjoyable

God loot drama really show cases how unstable some people in the MMO community are. You can call it "love" for the game but it goes waaaay deeper than that.

6:15 it's funny because, in Wrath I had that situation with ICC 25, where the A team was clearing and the B team was stuck on stupid shit. So, some of us on the B team decided to split and do our own HEROIC ICC 10. We pour sweat and blood into clearing it, and as soon as the heroic Arthas achievement showed up in the guild chat, people from the B team started to bitch that they wanted their share of the "experience"....

Yeah people struggled in vanilla raiding because their gear/builds sucked and they had no VOIP and the game lagged. Why do people find it so surprising? You lot would be no better if you couldn't google everything and watch guides on youtube.

16:07 he's right, happened to me in icc yesterday, some people don't take it that seriously and end up wasting time and making it bad for others.

Love how Asmon talks about vanilla raiding like he even did it as current content back then...

On Balnazzar EU there was this guild called Above and Beyond. They were second and third on the server and existed since ending of vanila/ begining of TBC. In WotLK heir leader Jupiter just took Mimiron'shead and disbanded the guild. Biggest drama that Dalaran witnessed since Arthas killed Antonidas in WC3. 🤣

Once some friends/guildies and I joined a literal "J" team after our previous mythic guild fell apart between WoD and Legion... we joined a mass community guild (Current Online) which had like 13 or so different raiding teams, and by adding us, we helped them shoot up in ranks, cleared heroic first week with them, and convinced them to push mythic 2 weeks later, and soon they began overtaking every other guild in the community and soon become the B team :P probably would of been the A team in the time we cleared mythic, but the A team had a headstart and had downed Xavius before we got to it (they were already progressing Mythic a good solid month before we joined the guild)

I was once doing a raid in Nyalotha and was doing great, the boss was about to die when another player purposely put the debuff on the floor killing three of us including me, when I called him out on it I was told to never talk during fights or I'm not going to raid with them ever again. Boss was had less than 3% HP and we only had 3 people down, and everyone was pretty full on health, didnt make a difference, they even tried to with-hold loot from me for the raid because I "spoke out of turn", as only the Raid Leader and the Tanks are allowed to talk during raids unless we are on break or asking for loot.

The Cloudsong rage is from Dark Age of Camelot, man that brings me back to old school MMO times.

I'll never forget ninja-looting the Black Drake from OS 10 man back in Wrath, the rage was amazing

I didn't start raiding until Cata, but those are still my favorite raids. Probably a mix of the nostalgia of them being my first raids, but I thought they were actually cool, too

The raid difficulty in Cataclysm was the worst offender in people quitting, be a shit expansion or not, not many accepted that the game got harder.

The barrier to entry of raiding is what made it prestigous, as soon as lfr came, the value of being in a guild fell of a cliff further destroying the social fabric of the game without strong mutual benefits for players this is a totally different game.

not everyone can get carried by there guild like you Asmongold

I specifically remember logging in, doing the LFR in Cata and being like "wait... so I just beat the game? Okay..." and stopped playing for ages lol.

Someone in the chat wrote “5 man MC?” “Oh my sweet summer child”. Oh to not know about pre raid panels for grouping 🤣

I don't even watch wow but I love listening to this guy talk about what he's passionate about

Blue Dawn was the biggest I was in 2 years after vanilla they had like 6,000 members

After watching this, I don’t think I’ll ever do a raid

When I was about 10 years younger I remember seeing my dad get kicked out of a guild for not doing enough damage because he had been falling asleep at the computer from playing 18 hours in a day. He's not one to have played more than 8 and that's on a weekend. Still gut wrenching to remember seeing how upset he was over that.

Nerfed was the OG #1 guild, with Void lapping at their heels :p

I raided because I did nothing more than prove my merit. I went through attunement quests, tank for B team, be the side-tank for A team... I was at the bottom of the totem pole and grinded up that ladder for the guild until I showed how I could hold my ground as the main tank. That sort of things gives you a lot of pride.

Razorgore back in the day was a major diversion from the normal tank and spank that almost ALL of MC was, so when you enter this new raid, you expect to just have to tank and spank Razorgore and BOOM, Nope.

The Cloudsong was DAoC loot. Was un-frigging real hard to get in a artifact raid when they initially came out. Ninja'ing one was literally grounds for going to the guys house and ramming a knife into his throat.

EQ days... 200 man raids... 40 is small

I stoped playing in Cataclysm too. The lore of Warcraft was over for me after Arthas death. And they nerfed many classes if I remember right, but yea I'm missing tbc and wotlk times in wow.

The longer WoW went on, the less patience people had since they couldn't fathom that others had less experience than they did. Then it got to the point where if you didn't know what you were doing even on your first run people would rage and kick you

In Vanilla my guild was pretty damn good. Come BC the "best" thought they could clear Kara pretty fast but fucked up a lot and there ended up with the top 10 being group one for gear, next best being group 2 until we got to group 4. I was the top pally healer in Vanilla in our guild, beat healing against the top pally on our server who was in the top 47 guild in the world. Group 4 ended up with our best tank, dps and healing finished group 1 by weeks. the guild leaders from then on made us priorities in every 25.

Killing heroic rag pre nerf is my proudest moment ever as a gamer over a decade later. What a fucking boss

It may be a game, but its a game that takes up people's real time so it is understandable raid leaders can get fed up even if they at times overreact.

Hundreds of thousands of views every video glad to see years later you still are kicking

Razorgore was a step up because he wasn't, to quote the video, a wait for 3 sunders then zerg boss, or a one mechanic boss like all of MC cept Rag. Those rages that used to occur when a tank train was broken or the Razorgore controller screwing up all occurred often and frequently. If I could call a boss a guild killer for this tier it would be Xanesh. Not because she's hard, she's fucking easy, but because you need to get people used to kicking the ball. All it takes is one mistake on mythic to wipe the entire raid. And that gets very frustrating, very quickly. My guild actually kicked some players because they didn't want to do the boss, which made us bring in newer players, which made us wipe most of the night losing progress time on Vex.

Kara was easy. SSC was where we had trouble as a guild

People had a problem with Razorgore back in the day because they had MUCH worse gear and MUCH worse talents.Since we are on 1.12 now with 1.12 itemization and talents its MUCH easier. Add to that people did not have so many addons to help them or knowledge of how to minmax their healing, damage and threat. People straight up used Mortal Strike Warriors back then, and did not respect the 16 debuff slots.

Raiders had very little capability for movement back in Vanilla. Lots of keyboard turners. And Razorgore required movement.

i think a fun raid boss would be a copy paste of your group into NPC format/ like your team has to face a bunch of NPCs that copy your team with all its abilities and health and you have to beat them as a group. were talking everything down to the stats of your armor.

that dudes name was Hachiroku lmfao what a legend

I miss on Gilneas. Nicsnock Was a god tier flamer.

I haven't seen videos that actually talk about the raid scene at the start of Cata - it's just always some vague thing that disbanded guilds when it was a lot more complicated: 10/25 mans now shared a lockout. No more breaking up your 25 man team up to run 10 man each week for loot - done to try to prevent the burnout that came from Wrath for many guilds. Caused a lot of guilds to scale down to 10 man thinking it would be easier [especially since loot was now the same between both sizes] but they were wrong because - 10 man, especially heroic, was as hard or harder than 25 man. The raids were deeply unbalanced and 10 man simply can't have the same range of class selection/numbers of a necessary class. Cata at the start was really heavy on some mechanics like interrupts and fun fact, Pally tanks [what I mained] didn't get a stand-alone interrupt that was off our standard rotation until about 6-7 weeks in. Just the lack of foresight into something so simple made it more of a slog [classes lacking interrupts made even doing some heroic 5 man bosses a pita if the group didn't know and didn't bring the right classes at launch]. There were more balancing issues that really faced 10 man raid teams, especially in heroic, but even for normal, many guilds felt like they were suddenly slamming into a brick wall and gave up. Glitchy as all get out. It felt like some of these encounters had never been tested. Looking at you, Blind Dragon in BWD. Or Al'Akir - where on the world first, half the raid was sitting out the fight for a while. On top of all of this, the changes to healers felt exceptionally punishing and just exacerbated the situation even more. Cata was a giant, buggy, unbalanced mess when it launched. Personally, despite all of this, I liked the harder content, but it definitely didn't make it user friendly, especially since people had become accustomed to joining random groups and the always running PUGs of Wrath days. People were impatient and didn't want to learn the new heroic 5 man fights, not understanding why they were wiping when in their minds, everything had been easy before. Forgotten was the fact that LFD was added in Wrath way after launch when people out-geared the content and already knew it minus the ICC 5 mans. Yes, some bosses in the 5 mans were overtuned by a little - but mostly it was a combination of untested content, lack of patience, guilds wanting to scale down, and lack of content outside of group stuff that really broke down a lot of guilds from what I saw.

I remember when my guildmaster had to roll hunter just for stuff like this.

I remember raiding MC in classic and our tank, once fully geared, left the guild and sold his account.

tbh karazhan was kinda easy , it got harder later with BT/sunwell and some others etc - most guilds did 2 teams OF A AND B , a was fast progress/gear , b team would try best but be like 3 bosses behind main , but when 25 came would merge back or if people slack in a team , would swap around to b team etc

I remember a guild on Stormscale back in the days was stuck on Razorgore for months. Also Vaelastrasz took around 3 minutes by the first kill for some guilds. In classic Vael is killed in 15 seconds.

With the itmimization and Talent trees before patch 1.12 Razor was pretty hard for guilds entering the bwl tier. The healers had mana isues and the raid often lacked DPS to kill all the adds in time. so hunters had to kite the dragonkins in p1+p2 and the raid had to kill the leftover ones after the boss was down, often wiping on those adds after razor was killed and then having to corpserun to get the loot.

Introduced in Mists of Pandaria, Personal loot is the default for all group content.

30:46 they are not TOO hard, but damn, Heroic Spine of Deathwing was a fucking hell to progress. We could not stack mages and rogues, so we had to actually clear the entire raid up to spine for a few weeks, we were literally stuck... And I was main tanking it. monkaS Imagine wiping for weeks and there's literally nothing you could do better. After a few weeks of progression we just went there to practice it, not with the idea to actually kill it. We would not even bring consumables, just practice the fight and waste gold on repairs. When we downed it tho... Damn, that felt fucking amazing. We did it without consumables too, on one of our practice runs. Then we could not kill it again for a few more weeks and then we had it on farm. That was fucking hard, man, even for a tank that had the least things to do really.

Oh God... DKP... We were a small Guild at the start of BC, mostly friends knowing each other on the internet. We were small, but we were "good". When we raided, loot was given to the one who needed it the most and Main over Twink. The one which got the highest upgrade on the slot, got the item. And everyone was okay with it. So we had a good group, everybody had profit from that system, cause the group was capable of doing more and more. That's how we did it. When our people quit WoW, cause of family, job and so on, we decided to move to a bigger guild... and they had the DKP thingy. It was... horrific. This system only boosted the ones who acutally were at every single raid, who had the most time, no matter if they're already good equiped, no matter if they played good, no matter if they mattered in that raid... it was just ridiculous. "Hmmmh, you could swap a green item out for the violet one. Hmh, what? Oh, you didn't have the DKP to BUY that Item? Sucks. Who has DKP to buy it and could wear it?" - yes, it were the ones who were already pampered. Always.

I would get yelled at all day over just getting kicked with no explanation. At least they are telling you what you are doing wrong, even if it isn't as nicely put as you would prefer.

the kiting method for razorgore made it so much harder than it had to be

Razorgore with 3 prot warriors, and a balanced raid that was 't1 geared' didn't make Razorgore easy. As such, most of the people didn't know how to use CD's and gear optimize.

I quit in cataclysm not because it was too hard. It was fine. But I quit as soon as mop was announced. I snapped out of my hypnosis and realized that wow was headed further downhill. I went on a big rant in Trade then cancelled my sub and never looked back. I haven’t played in like ten years and just recently came back and am playing tbc as a tank. We will see how long it lasts

I honestly never really used vent or anything back when I played WoW. I just looked up the fights, memorized everything and just got good. And whenever the groups would wipe, I’d just be sitting there laughing knowing nobody would hear it, since I mostly just played to have fun and enjoy the game. But of course I did play seriously when I had to, and I would always be among the last raid members left due to never giving up when everyone else quite. Man the memories. 😋

Note: I never played vanilla. I disagree with the idea that a lot of GMs were abusive raid leaders. I think a lot of them were just fed up with how stupid some guild mates were because the boss fights were actually pretty easy mostly. Now again, I've never played vanilla, but I've seen some pretty dogwater people in classic and raid finder in retail. Not saying all GMs were perfect angels, but it's bad to also lump them all in as abusive people. Some people want to see their time and effort rewarded instead of being constantly held back by people who just want to be carried. That's all I'm saying.

OMFG RETRODRUID. Tichondrius represent. I was in the raid where she took hand of rag for herself (as a fill in). Was like wtf when she took it. I wasnt a class even use it but still was like "wow"

Haven't played wow in millennia, but my best buddy was a rogue, think his name was Railz. Thing is... I don't think I ever saw him ninja loot anything! I mean, did I ever really know the guy? I bet his name wasn't even Railz, it was probably phil or something. He was a good guy, though. Hope he's doing ok.

I want my bosses as hard as it gets - I love the Dark Souls like feels after beating a boss after tons of trys. Those were the most epic moments in teamspeak back then

This is one of my favorite memories. I was in a world top 100 guild in BC. We were good. very good. But also with being in a Progression Guild comes the stick up the ass and high tensions. After the Point we had Hyjal on Farm status we still needed a few things for a few folk to finalize prep for SWP. So there we were trucking through the Instance right up to Archimondewith zero issues..and we wiped..3 times...on a boss we had on farm. So Our GM/Raid Leader took us off to the side field near Archimonde and made us /sit in a circle around this rock. Which he then stood on and berated us for 20+ minutes in Vent about being regressive knuckles-draggers and if a single person died in the next pull he'd kick that person from the guild and demote the healer assigned to that group etc etc. Needless to say our asses were puckered after that. and yet I still love that memory and how serious we took it.

I still remember a guild in BC that I quit over greedy leadership. I joined and was told that I was on a 2 week no raid loot probation. I was an undergeared Holy Paladin, but was performing better than some of the geared healers. Finally my day arrives... I can get loot. The officers decided who got loot based on performance or need. Knowing that I was doing really well with the crap gear I had... I was sure to get loot to increase performance based on gear level. I see a mace drop which was a major upgrade... Don't get it. I see 3 set tokens drop that I could use... Nope. The person who got it was an officer alt that was gearing up as a back-up tank. The mace did him no good as a tank since this was after the BC Paly change. Ohh and he had 2 of the 3 tanking set pieces anyways and turned them in for healing gear. I told them that if they were wanting to gear up an alt characters alt spec over a main raiders, raiding spec... They will have to do it without me and /gquit. Turns out, this night was the death of the guild. I was told that many people came to my support and were told that if they didn't like it, join me. They did. I was later asked to come back and told that any healing gear that drops was mine. My response was just "Ohh you need members huh? No thanks. I don't want to gear your officers up" The guild split about a week later after the leadership turned on each other.

A & B teams in Kara were absolutely a thing lol

I quit early Cata as well, though I didn't even make it to raiding. At the end of Wrath I remember I still had a couple pieces of Naxx gear and my main was raiding with people's alts. We had blind DKP auctioning and 'inner circle' people getting loot on their alts before core members which contributed to that. Since I had attended about 85% of my guild's raids before getting moved to the alt group I was too sour to raid in Cata.

Mythic Gorefiend killed quite a few guilds. Only reason my guild progressed through it is because we were able to pick up skilled people from the remnants of broken teams lol.

I was watching a raid by the ww1 guild in EQ2 waaaay back in the day. When they wiped, the guild leader just sighed and was like, "Raise up. Do it again." Wipe "Again." Win. "Nice work." Guild was filled with the best, most competitive players. You didn't need to yell. I am sure he kicked people after raid or during if they weren't working it, but yah... It was pro. The guild I was in that bounced around between 4th and 10th WW.... GL would scream his head off even at the slightest screw up. But then we were partially filled with clowns who got carried and he had no fuse... I do think he was emotionally stunted as well, but yah... no fuse at all. Whatcha gonna do?

Always had bad luck with guilds. Every single self-proclaimed casual guild i tried, broke due to chat drama, raid rage, loot drama due to master loot abuse or DKP drama, in a matter of months. Now i'm too old for this shit. I like raiding and i've been raid leader and guild offy many times, but i prefer doing some random BGs and collectibles farm by myself rather than find another toxic ass guild and prepare for raiding.

Razorgore went through a ton of patches. As he is now in vanilla, he is weak.

My guild in Classic used a "loot council" system... Never again

I would like to add my piece to this whole thing. I was on the Draka server for several years. I went through 2 guilds, the two best guilds on that server. The first was Against All Odds, which died after our "Raid Leader" stopped showing up to raids and never invited new people to fill in the places of people leaving out of frustration. I left some time mid-Legion I believe. Second guild was Quintessence, and that guild was pretty great! I had a really good time there. Except the GM was a fucking huuuuge pushover and would break his back to please his wife. Around the lauch of BFA, they both abandoned the guild and server entirely to be on Frostmourne or some shit. After that we left Draka entirely because Draka is a dead-ass server with shitty economy and no guilds left.

The biggest guild killer was ego and the ones who thought they were the best at the game taking members and making their own "OP" guild and failing with in one month and having killed a guild that was a year old and working well together. Back when BWL first opened Razorgore and such was an entirely different fight after 2nd nerf most none hardcore guilds could get past razorgore but before that they would fail, the kiting was not the only issue but also aggro management of the adds and mages and warlocks aggroing to much and after the mages went down or warlocks the healers had aggro from trying to keep up the mages and warlocks and then the raid just died.

Wow - My Guild actually killed Cho'Gall pre-nerve and Almost Nefarian but Nefarian Pre-Nerve was not too hard, and beatable, if you KNEW what you need to do... I remember Catas first Raid Tier fondly :D