I've suspected that Aegon was actually the infertile one. Visenya was loyal to Aegon but Rhaenys would take lovers when her husband wasn't looking, and could have become pregnant by one of them. At some point Visenya must have realized it was her husband who was infertile, not her, and she did what she felt she had to do to conceive a child.

Could Tyanna have been a skinchanger who could see through the eyes of spiders and rats while she slept? We know of skinchangers in Essos.

I was a little confused cause after about 5minutes of listening to childbirth of monstrous creatures i had an ad "if you are pregnant it is time...." for some pregnancy supplement. These companies really know how to sell their stuff😅

I love this Theory, tho I think Maegor was a necessary evil, one to save the monarchy from the faith and Vysenia was definitely working for the survival of the Targ line.

Thanks for focusing on the witches of a song of ice and fire

Maegor was a badass who saved the Targaryans without doubt. I love your spooky music. It gives me the creeps.

I always thought everything we knew about Maegor and Visenya was a smear campaign by the faith who at the time and probably still are against the targs. Yes probably most of the stuff on them is true but I thought the torture of viserys was and Aneys death everything else was taken to the extremes to make them look extreme.

I wondered if sorcery was involved in Maegor's conception, considering Visenya's circumstances it does seem likely to me. A forced conception through sorcery resulting in a barren heir, which Maegor certainly was in my opinion, makes a lot of sense as we all know magic is dangerous and costly in this story.

Saying that Tyanna did what she did because she was forced by Meagor takes unessecarily responsibility away from her. Atrocities like the proscription lists that doomed many people to death and torture where not ideas of Meagor. That was her doing as a sort of master of whispers. Meagor was not the only monster in this story.

I absolutely love this channel. It’s so chill and so informative. You should be a professor or something, man.

I love this channel. I appreciate the hard work that goes into these videos. Thanks for sharing your Ideas. Keep up the great work

It would be fucked up if Meagor was Aegon’s only true son while Aenys was a bastard

Love your work but there's some problems with this one. Firstly, Maegor's evilness is greatly overblown, and whilst he certainly was a hard man, nothing he did was for pleasure, and the worst of his deeds all were orchestrated by Tyanna. I'd argue Aerion and Joffrey were much more evil, and that Aerys, and possibly Aegon V, were crazier at the end of their reigns. There's so much more that can be said in Maegor's defense but I'll move on. The idea that Visenya's pregnancy didn't happen as we've been told is a very interesting possibility. However, it's extremely unlikely Tyanna was involved. We're not given an exact age for her but I don't believe she was old enough to have anything to do with it. It also seems that Visenya didn't care for her much at all. Don't forget Visenya didn't summon Tyanna to Westeros. She came on a ship with Alys and sellswords. It's likely that when Maegor left to claim the throne Alys and maybe Tyanna were charged with hiring mercenaries and bringing them to Westeros. Assuming it took a few weeks to organize, their arrival 27 days later makes sense. If Tyanna was summoned specifically to save Maegor's life then why wait to hire 600 sellswords before leaving? If summoned to save him wouldn't it make more sense for Tyanna to have arrived within a week of his injuries, and for Alys to arrive later, on a different ship, with the sellswords? Also keep in mind Visenya didn't join her son in exile so it's quite possible she never met, or even knew of, Tyanna until she stepped off the ship. To me it seems Tyanna was exactly what she seems. A sadist with enough talent, beauty, and status to place herself in the right place, at the right time, to gain the power to indulge her evil desires by influencing a man who was physically and emotionally vulnerable. Much like Stannis is presented to us as man made of iron that will break before he bend, Maegor always did what he thought needed to be done until the strain of constant attacks and failure to father a child caused him to break. Tyanna simply knew how to wield the broken sword Maegor became until she too died by its blade.

I have always thought that Viseyna brought back Maegor in a Thoros/Beric sorta way and played it off after she sent for the two women. Brilliant video so glad I'm not the only one seeing connections.. Think Alys Rivers the Witch Queen connected as well now also?

Visenya was str8 up slandered

Visenya is a true queen. Easily my favorite targ.

Man Quinn when you read from fire and blood,makes me wanna go back and read those pages again.I vvisualize the content so much more and take on the subject your covering is spot on good job .

Look, it CAN'T be a coincidence that SPIDERS and knowing everyone's secrets, AND CREATING THE PERFECT KING, are a theme for Tyanna AND Varys, right?? It's not just me?

The Mists of Avalon is such a f*cking amazing book. If people are into the mythology and the "topic" or "theme" in general, they will *love* this book. 📖❤🕯

I always felt that Maegor's inability to produce a viable heir was related to a genetic reproductive anormality he likely inherited due to his family's inbreeding. He may have been surrounded with strange and mysterious women, plotting for and against him, but I feel that Maegor's greatest failure was brought on only by his own impotence.

I see everything in fire in blood through the same lens as the play of the purple wedding that Arya watches.

Is it Tyanna or is it Visenya who is misunderstood? As I commented in one of In Deep Geek's videos, I suspect that Aegon himself was the one who was unable to have children. Visenya used her knowledge or magic to aid both her and her sister's pregnancies. That is why both Aenys and Maegor are extreme forms of their respective mothers' personalities. Also, both men aged unnaturally quickly, looking far older when they died than their actual ages. Visenya must have needed much more effort to bring about Maegor's birth. Thus why all his children were malformed. As to what was between Tyanna and Visenya I don't know. It is very strange that Visenya would have trusted Tyanna with her son so willingly. But it is also written that she had a strong hatred of her too. It is quite possible we are judging Tyanna too harshly. But that's true of just about all the characters. I would remind you that Maegor never even suspected Alys of infidelity until Tyanna told him. And it was she specifically who told him that the malformed child was not his, though I am sure she knew it was.

I'm sticking to my guns that the maesters were poisoning all of his wives. Cuz think about it the maesters were tending to Maegor when he got hurt and the minute Tyanna touched him, he woke up the next day.

Maegor was one of the best kings. He did what was necessary. The maesters just had too much propaganda.

Morgane was the very first comparison that jumped into my mind when I saw both the description and then further, the gorgeous pictures of Tyanna in Fire & Blood! I love this channel and I love this series on "witches" from ASOIAF.

“A throne I might add that he was never meant to sit...BALANCE.” *quinn drops mic*

This world is so rich and I love it. Keep up the good work dude!

You are always so eloquent when you talk, even in a live setting! Thank you for all that you do! She is a character that we are all still getting to know and I love your examination on her. I think that you are on to something with her keeping Visenya's secrets.

Dude, you gotta go into the audiobook industry fam, you gonna make gold

I've a mad Maegor theory I've been touting a while now on comments elsewhere online and , if you don't mind, I'll repeat here because this vid is particularly pertinent. What if Magor’s father is Balerion The Black Dread? That Visenya in her dark magic studies discovered that early Valyrians discovered (or were taught) that a mixture of sinister rites and a, er, well, sample of dragon semen (via artificial insemination) creates a child a dragon will accept as a rider. It explains Aegon’s disgust with his sister and his dislike of his ‘son’. It explains Maegor’s monstrous still born children (the blood of the dragon having still not thinned out) and his angry, inhumanly cruel temperament (and the slight inhumanity of the Targaeryens and the dragonriding families generally). When you consider this is a world where sorceresses birth shadow babies it’s actually not that far fetched. It also might explain what happened to that Princess who came back from Valyria full of snake-like things: there's some degenerate descendants of Valyrian survivors still there, trying (and hideously failing) to enact the rights of their ancestors. Tinfoil, admittedly, but tinfoil with few holes in it...

The sound in the background works very well in this Gem of a story.

Wow taking the dissection up several notches, love it. Most appreciated.

I came to your channel for the Dune content (having a strong fondness for the film), but you’ve managed to make ASOIF as compelling to me as I find Dune, and motivated me to read both sagas. Thanks for all your content. I really enjoy all of it.

I think the Maesters were poisoning poor Maegor..... all he wanted was to keep his family as rulers, at the end he knew Westeros needed a strong ruler. Btw, my cat is named Maegor the Cruel.

U are truly one of my favs. All the details, research and hard work u put into these videos. The artwork is beautiful. And ur voice so comfortable to listen to. I love how u break down the characters and stories from the books. Thank u

We also have to remember that Oldtown is responsible for th history we read and they certainly had no love for Meagor. The whole "Iron Trone wasn't meant to be his" is so fluid, that's what the dance was fought over. Robert won by strength of conquest the same way Aegon did. When Henry Tudor won the crown of England he "wasn't meant to sit the throne". The truth is the Targayrians were about to be overthrown when Visenya flew to Pentos and retrieved Maegor and Blackfyre, the realm would have descended into chaos, as Oldtown hoped. The Hightower, The citidel and the Starry Sept all hating on the Valyrian customs and rule of House Targaryian. It's an Andal thing.

The Order of the Green Hand has a good theory of Tyanna being a Faith of the Seven bad faith actor due to her name coming from faith.

I really like where your head is at about Tyanna. It's interesting that our chroniclers are able to give us so little on Visenya. She obviously knew how conceal her actions from most likely everyone.

Awesome 👍 as always , thanks for all u do Quinn

exceptional work and analysis, sir

Recently discovered you on Robert’s In deep geek channel! Excellent content and analysis.

This seems to have a LOT of parallels to Danys early story. Perhaps Dany is a product of unnatural origins as well.

Thank you so much for your videos and podcasts. I absolutely love them and your discussions and theories.. i couldn't believe my luck when I saw you also love Dune. A man after my own heart 😍😍😍

This was absolutely amazing. Love this channel

solid theory man; and great work! 👍🏿

I think one of the reasons why Tyanna was so trusted with Magyor's injury was because she was probably the only one capable of healing him due to his unnatural existence. Something created unnaturally through magic likely could only be repaired through Magic. I think his mother did more than just sacrifice her life to restore him I believe she taught Tayana the means by which to heal him in the first place and she couldn't do it herself because she had to be the sacrifice.

Would Viserys and Danerys also be products of dark magic? Would Aerys II have been desperate to make more children as Rhaegar was his only son? Aerys II was really weird about protecting Viserys as well. Dany also had a lizard baby.....thats why i ask?

Wonderful video, thank you.

Another great video analysis!

Good analysis. Thanks, Quinn.

Great as always have a great week man

Can't believe it's taken me this long to discover this channel. Binge watching

Fantastic theory Quinn! 👍🏽

Why you do diz to me?? 🤪 You blow my mind every time. Thank you!

Great theory here Quinn.

Basically Maegor is Visenya's Frankenstein's Monster; since Valyrian magic involved Human sacrifice the analogy still stands.

All the poor fellows that burned made a cloud that lasted a very convenient 7 days? All the people that opposed maegor were very intricately named... But his allies are lucky to get mentioned by name (trial of 7).. Read it with the assumption that the faith amd maesters and hightowers are plotting together... And you'll see that it makes more sense.. Maegor was being treated by the maesters and as soon as they left.. Kaboom. He's better already. And when this all failed.. They stole that girl sara to make the dance.

👏👏👏👏 Just a great one! 🙌😎💕💕🔥🕷🕸

I've heard this theory before and its a good one. Visenya was a very dark person indeed. It's curious that no other Targaryan female is ever named Visenya while there are 100 variations of Rhaenys. Likewise theres never another Maegor. Thank you for doing this video. Im really looking forward to more theory videos from Fire and Blood.

i think we need to point out that rhaegar and lyanna's baby's true name should be visenya.

I don't get why everyone thinks Aegon was infertile i think both his sons were his. Still loved this video though

Visenya and Tyanna definitely made deals Bc when he healed Visenyas health deteriorates until she dies then Maegor becomes a shell of himself and disoriented. Also this witch saved her son but it is said Visenya hated Tyanna after she became queen

Damn this dude makes some dope ass videos.

Aenys Targaryen wasn't Maegor's nephew. He was his older half brother, the firstborn of Aegon the Conqueror, by his younger sister-queen Rhaenys.

With everyone being so monstrous and cruel, it makes it impossible to like anyone. I can't wait for a Time for Spring where Sam and Gilly discover the secret island of unicorns and kittens where fruits grow bountiful and rainbows greet everyone every morning.

Dunno if we can say she's not evil, if she wasn't she'd never have given him a list or manipulated him into a different course of action. But George loves playing with our expectations with what evil/good should be, as well as taking a lot of time to mention specifically that sources vary on the information in the book.

Quinn, Check out Men of the West's video about Queen Beruthiel from the Tolkien legendarium. Tyanna reminds me of her.

Fascinating theory !

I've been devouring your videos since I found your channel, both ASOIAF and Dune ones. both of whom i'm an avid reader. Have you read the Earthsea book series by Ursula Le Guin? I think it would be a great topic for your channel. If you haven't read it, I recommend you strongly! ;)

nice! pls more fire and blood videos, pls

Yes!

love this

Weird thing at the end of this chapter in Fire and Blood; in one of the last paragraphs, it says Maegor’s reign last 6 years and 66 days...666. Why would George Martin included this specific number? Is this considered breaking the 4th wall? Thoughts?

Do you think that a theory on Aemond One-Eye would be cool? He’s a really cool villain in fire and blood and I think he’s rather undertalked about

just a logistics q: was tyanna the original mistress of whisper? like did she originate that position? i cant remember if fire and blood had mentioned that title before Maegor's reign

ei could you do a video ranking the dune books , just the main ones written by frank herbert

Boy Tyanna and Varys sure do have a lot in common..

I think when witches appear in Westerosi history we are meant to think of 'witches' from our own Middle Ages and of their false trials. Not that they are necesarilly completely analogous, but we should keep the thought in our brains.

Dune: Ticia Cenva, Erasmus, Shaddam, Rev mother Lucilla... ASOIAF: Cersey, Melisandre, Robin, Gregor Clegane... I have many names, just like Arya. Thanks, I love the Targaryen and the Martel. Tyanna seems to be an interesting character, I want to know more about her.

Im getting Varys vibes. Is it possible Varys is somehow related to the witch Tyanna? Is that in the realm of possibility? I

Maegor's just casually throwing heads at people, accusing them of being jealous witches. It's so good, but so bad.

Weak theory. Maegor was not evil, he was simply manipulated by an evil woman who took advantage of his short temper

Wow, that's deep

I am waiting for the spin-off

Btw, you haver the smother voice ever! We love you 😍 and your fedoras

Do you prefer asoiaf or dune more? or are they too different to compare?

Woohoo!

Maegor saved house targaryen. Don't believe the lies of the andals.

Tyanna and Varys are awwwwwwwwfully similar ;)

2:12 aenys was maegor's half brother, not nephew.

solid theory, m8

Always enjoy your videos. A few things worth noting for historical context since we know GRRM loves both history and an unreliable narrator. Female village healers and midwives were often named witches because patriarchal society didn’t like women holding a special knowledge. It makes sense to me that Tyanna might fall victim to the vicious rumors of Maesters because of her superior knowledge of the healing arts. Second thing to note: fucked up kiddos are often the result of incest. Men in power never wanted to think it was their issue, rather, it was the woman who must be blamed. Or a curse. Or both. Not to discount the possibility of magic. Magic is real in the books and stillborns have been used in spells. But I do think the historical context offers a bit of intrigue.

Hi again.

Interesting parallels to magic, not being able to have children, master of whisperers, spiders and Lord Varys... History rhymes supposedly...

Woah

When is part 6 of Ultimate Guide to Dune coming out?

Maegor's actions against the Faith ensured that the house Targaryen lived and ruled for years and generations to come. Enough of this Maegor smear campaign. Maegor's great.

Maegor sounds interesting

Can you do a video about the sigil on the Night Kings neck? What you think it is and what it might mean.

Maegor being a magic baby makes sense