I have people tell me all the time how much they still love their 6D. It really is quite impressive that they developed and released something with such practical longevity.

Bought a great condition 6D for just over $200. Also a 5D classic for around $100. Shows you can still get these great, capable old dslrs and have a useable setup for very little outlay. Love the 6D for all kinds of photography.

@@deanrobertnoble138 I'm glad you are still loving those cameras. At this point for me, it would be extremely frustrating to try to use a DSLR when shooting handheld, but I am a photographer by profession. Not everyone needs the kind of speed and software features that I make use of daily. I think eventually it will just become smarter for everyone to upgrade to mirrorless cameras with backlit sensors, but for now there definitely is a price to pay for those improvements. I'd rather people spend less and get started than to not be doing creative things at all.

I sold my 6D mkii and bought the mki, it's so much better for astro.

@@DesmondButler I picked up 2 6D's a few month back just for astro. One will e sent to be modified thinking of spencer's to do the mod one will stay the unchanged for now anyway. I have a R5 but I like the smaller files and the reputation of the 6d for astro. Anyone have any experience with Spenser's?

Totally agree

My experience can't seem to dispute that. As a professional photographer and videographer, there are advantages outside of astrophotography that made the jump to mirrorless extremely practical, but if we're just talking about night shots, that 6D still makes a solid impression in 2023.

With it being the first in the 6000 line to feature a back-illuminated sensor, it's going to be very hard not to just impulse buy the a6700 when they ship to stores later this month. Definitely looking forward to testing one. Thanks man!

I agree, wanting to see that camera on astrophotography

@@DesmondButler Where is the video ? 😢

@@Reptiluka_ Milky Way Season is almost here, and it is on my list... hopefully renting all the Sony cameras I need won't be too expensive 😅

@@DesmondButler I bought the A6700 last week, it's a good buy 😁

It should track pretty closely over any exposure length. It's probably safe to assume that the cameras that captured more light would continue to extend their lead for detail capture. In the case of the 6D, noise would certainly become much less of an issue, as it is already fairly low with that model. With that said, I'd recommend trying out a mirrorless camera some time just to see how it performs. It's becoming more and more difficult for me not to exclusively recommend cameras with these newer backlit sensors for astrophotography.

Nice! That G Master is going to do some amazing things at f1.8.

@@DesmondButler you messaging this right during the drive ??

@DesmondButler I'm super happy with the Viltrox esp the price $550 same with the 20mm f1.8. Both lens for less then the 24 f1.4 G master, balancing my budget

​@@seangaffney581how did the shoot go?

@jmart_4 I found myself primarily using the 14 24 sigma for more detail. The viltrox is great but I do notice distortion either to close or to far. The sony 20 sat in the bag

I would LOVE to do a shoot like this. If only my channel was on Sony's radar 😅

That is a great question. After looking at all the lenses that would be compatible with the EF-S mount on the T3i and other cameras in the Rebel series, that 14mm with f2.8 from Rokinon might still be your best bet. I was hoping that maybe there was a better option for Canon APS-C cameras, but that appears to only be the case for mirrorless lenses. So yes, that lens I featured in the video does natively fit the T3i and is probably the best budget friendly option for that camera right now when it comes to night shots.

The Rokinon 14 mm f/2.4 is better but also costs a lot more.

It looks like you've been busy capturing a lot of timelapses with them. Nice 👍

I do a lot of detail stacking and timelapses, and the file sizes with the a7RV are definitely a legitimate concern, not just for storage space but also required processing power. That's a major reason why I still default to the a6500 for a lot of quick projects. I'd say if you love what you're getting out of the a7RIII, stick with it. The two reasons I would give for the upgrade to the V are that I do actually find that the greater pixel count significantly aids detail stacking, and that the 8K video is a huge boost for anyone using the "lucky imaging" technique for planetary stacking.

As I was explaining to another prospective Sony photographer this weekend, if you can deal with the large file sizes, it's hard not to be impressed with what the A7RV puts out. Let me know what you find out from testing the ZF!

I will let you know for sure! I am hoping it does really well. Although it is nice to have extra resolution and detail with the z7ii@@DesmondButler

I'll see if I can get my hands on one. Thanks for the suggestion.

I hear from a lot of 6D users that they still love what they get out of it for astrophotography, and I think that's great. I do like the R6, but I wouldn't recommend the upgrade to it if astrophotography is your primary. Yes, EF lenses adapt well to mirrorless Sony bodies. I've used some 3D printed adapters, but here's one that would work: www.amazon.com/Fotasy-Manual-Mount-Adapter-NAEF/dp/B003XY8DF4 This adapter only does manual, but there are some that add electronic control for a much higher price.

Thanks Desmond. Interesting. I guess I’ll hold on then. I figured the jump in sensor technology would have been worthwhile and was surprised by how little difference there was in your video. The Sony’s certainly seem to be winning there at the moment. I’ve seen quite a few people move to R5’s for Astro and landscape and while it would be a nice camera to have, I don’t see the “Astro value” in it. Even the modded ones! The 6d always performs well next to my modded 100d (a cheap test purchase to see if modded was worth it), and even against a friend’s Astro modded 6d…

I’ll look into the adapters now as I never realised that was an option. No way could I justify replacing all the lenses, but equally I’d only want to get a Sony if I could use some of the electronic features. I realise it’s of no importance for Astro but I do use the cameras elsewhere with family (hence the samyang 14mm AF!). And I’m pretty sure I’d be gutted if I had to leave a Sony in the bag for those occasions…

Glad you're enjoying the videos! It can be pretty impressive what you can capture with new smartphone cameras today. If you were wanting to move up from what you had but still stay on a very tight budget, I'd most likely recommend getting a second-hand Sony a7II. Its a full frame mirrorless camera that sits in the middle of each of the Alpha line variants, and its pretty popular in the astrophotography community. I'm seeing them available on Adorama for $495 for just the camera body, but you can find some with a lens bundled in for pretty cheap as well. No matter what direction you go with, I'd definitely push you toward mirrorless cameras. DSLR isn't dead, but the benefits of mirrorless are just too great to pass up anymore. I hear that Pentax and Nikon have some good mirrorless night shooters, but I haven't tested any yet. I like Canon for a lot of things, but as you'll see from my testing, their mirrorless cameras are definitely behind the rest when it comes to low light, which is the main reason I seem to always be recommending Sony cameras. They just do night shots exceptionally well.

@@DesmondButler would I need to get the Sony a7II modified for H-alpha or just use it stock? Also second question, if I stay with Canon DSLR and can't find the 6D I'm looking for, What would be two Canon model / options I should look at that would get me the results of the 6D as to low noise? So you understand I'm not located in the USA so Adorama wouldn't be a place I would normally shop at.

@@CountDorkula Greetings to you, wherever you are writing from. I try not to assume since a lot of the commenters on this channel are not from the states, but when talking about price, I'm unfortunately only familiar with the online shops I've used here. Sorry about that. As far as I know, the only Canon DSLR options that would match or exceed the low light performance of the 6D are going to be noticeably more expensive. The only one I know of that comes close is the EOS 5D Mark IV, and it still sells for over a grand used.

I actually think you're doing exactly what you need to do to get great shots with your camera. My first few night outings were full of unusable shots. Its not just learning the science, its also getting to know your camera and your lenses. So my advice is to keep experimenting, but based on what you're saying, there are a couple things you might start with. I have referred to ISO in my videos as if it is a uniform setting, but we are finding out that it really isn't. For some of the award winning shots that were captured with my Sony a6500, I was actually using 2000 and even sometimes 1600 ISO. That is definitely worth a try in your case. Try a whole bunch of settings. See what you like while you're there, but also take some extras to test in editing later. What you may discover is that your specific camera does really well at one particular ISO when weather and atmospheric seeing are at a certain condition. Second, I like that you're trying out 20 second shots, but also give 10 second shots a try, and anything in between. The main idea here is experimentation, and like I said, I think you're already on the right track. Let me know how it goes!

That's a good question, but I can honestly say I'd reach for the a6500 before the 6D. It seems to do just as well if not slightly better at light capture, and seems to produce less noise at the same time. The only reason you might not is because of the crop on the a6500, but it genuinely isn't a problem for me. Wide lenses with super wide apertures are far less expensive for crop sensors. But that's just my take.

@@DesmondButler Awesome reply! Thanks! In my town they are going for the same price second hand so i’ve been definitely considering the crop!

@@midorfaceroll7516 Good on you for checking the used market first. Best of luck with your first star shoot on your next camera!

I see what you mean. I guess I've been a little too OCD with the order. Doing what you suggest might make it more of a guess for viewers. I might have to consider trying that on my next broad test. Thanks for the suggestion.

No noise reduction was used to capture these raw images. I will sometimes use it for my personal milky way shots depending on the circumstances, but I am aware that many photographers in the community consider this feature to be a "star eater", so these tests are always completed with those features disabled. Thanks for the question.

Some of these cameras don't have that feature, so in order to maintain a fair comparison, I did not use it. That being said, in-camera post-processing is widely criticized by members of the astrophotography community. Some call noise reduction settings a "star eater". Whether or not that is universally true is still a matter of debate, so for my comparisons, I never have High ISO NR turned on.

@@DesmondButler Ahh understood, thanks for the clarification

@@itzharryboi9226 No problem! Thanks for the question.

There are definitely some drawbacks and shortcomings with the first one in the series, but you're absolutely right, the auto-focus system was a form factor game-changer.

@@DesmondButler yep Noise in high iso is bad by today's standards And no 4k and bad battery life but still a steal for 300$

I could possibly do something like that. Though it might be tricky to come up with something that hasn't already been done here on KZfaq 🤔

@@DesmondButler I know but everybody has its own unique style of editing and I think yours has some original tips :)

@@user-lj5xj9oe1u I appreciate that. I have a few how-to videos in the works, and I think I could incorporate something like that. Thanks for the suggestion.

It's probably genetic.

@@DesmondButler that'd be nice!

If your budget is $650 for body and lens, you might have to go with an older DSLR to start. You'll find a lot of people in my comments sections who swear by the Canon 6D, which you can get for around $350 on the used market. I'd pair it with the lens you see in this video, the Rokinon 14mm f/2.8, which only costs around $280 used. But if that was your budget for just the camera, I'd definitely go with something mirrorless. I haven't tested it myself, but from what I've seen, the Sony a7II is a pretty great full frame camera for low light shooting, and can be found used for around $630.

An extremely valid point, and one of the big reasons why I keep showing older cameras in my comparisons. You do not need new or tons of money to get started with astrophotography. But if you do get really into it, you start to want to spend more on your setup, and that's great too!

The a7 is a great camera, and will probably make any first time buyer very satisfied. A lot of the fantastic Sony features found on the a7R have trickled down to the a7. The primary difference is truly going to be resolution and price. For the extra $500, the a7R gives you nearly double the megapixels, and in the case of the a7R V, it is one of the only cameras in this class to offer 8K video. I'll be honest, most people will never need either of those features. If you're a professional who regularly works on broadcast video or billboard size printing, get the a7R V, no question. If you're newer to photography or even just run a portrait business, the a7 IV is plenty.

@@DesmondButler Thanks !!!

I've never had one in my hands for longer than an hour. Looking to fix that soon.

@@DesmondButler it is extremely good in low light because it has only 12mp in full frame sensor and dual native iso, for untracked deep sky astro or even widefield. If you get a chance to try, I recommend you to set the iso to its second native iso which is 16000(for still images) and set the shutter speed following the Npf rule, try to get at least 30 minutes of total integration time, don’t forget to take calibration frames and the results will looks nearly identical to the tracked ones.

​@@P00P2OO a7iv also has dual native iso as far as I know

@@-MrEVIL- Yes, but the dual native ISO does not matter much when the resolution is high (for astrophotography). At 33MP, the Sony A7 IV has a pixel pitch of 4.35μm, which is quite small (even though not so small for a full-frame sensor) and results in lower light sensitivity than the Sony A7S III, which has 12MP resolution and a large pixel pitch of 8.44μm (about half of the Hubble Space Telescope and the James Webb Space Telescope). The pixel pitch determines how much light each pixel can capture, and larger pixels can collect more photons and produce less noise. Therefore, the Sony A7S III has a better low-light performance and a higher dynamic range than the Sony A7 IV, which makes it more suitable for astrophotography.

@@P00P2OO i would think sensor size is more important but fair enough. A7siii limited to 12mp though.. Also, light intake determines noise level Not resolution, from tony Northrup's tests atleast. Pixel pitch mostly determines max iso and how far iso can be pushed afaik...

I heard they included it on the new a6700. I hope I get a chance to compare it.

@@DesmondButler it would be interesting if you compare A7 iv and a7R V because i own a7iv )

My friend's girlfriend just got the a7IV, so you might just see it show up in the next comparison 👌

Yes, you should always experiment with ISO. It really is not an objective metric, and I'm not sure if it ever was. With the T3i, you really won't get much data at 3200, but you also get way too much noise at 6400. I will say, though, that the cameras in the a7 line do just fine at 6400, so it really just depends. Always try multiple settings 👍

on what ?

The 6D still gets a lot of love, and its easy to see why. In many cases, it will be subjective though. I've lost some competitions to photos I didn't particularly admire, and I've been surprised to have won other times when I didn't think I was going to. That's why I always ask the viewers to tell me which of the test images they liked best. That said, if I was on my way to attempt to photograph my next award winning shot, based on all my many test sessions, I would be carrying the Sony A7RV, without question.

Haha, seems I can't agree or disagree with this until I test the Z 7II against one of the Sony cameras. Hoping to do just that at some future time.

I used a z7 in the past. It would be better on a tracker. That Sony a7r5 would eat it’s dust in low light single exposure images.

@@jharrelphoto Nope. Nice try with that Minolta descended toy.

lol. ill stick with real results instead of opinions thank you :)@@mikegarwood8680