Atheism is AIDS to the Secular Public Square. Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Richard Dawkins, Peter Boghossian

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Пікірлер: 173

@gabbygutierrez1885 Ай бұрын

I like how KZfaq puts a banner explaining HIV/AIDS on this video…

@recongraves Ай бұрын

😂😂😂😂

@danimal118 Ай бұрын

KZfaq 🤡

@recongraves Ай бұрын

@@danimal118 hey 🤡

@WhatsTheTakeaway Ай бұрын

Yeah thats pretty funny. I also think it's funny that it does t feel the need to inform anyone about any other topic Paul talked about.

@PaulVanderKlay Ай бұрын

"Literal Internet" has infected Algo.

@AFringedGentian Ай бұрын

Hi Paul, I got to see Dr. Peterson in Boston this week and it was INCREDIBLE. The lecture was the best he has ever given and I should know, I’ve seen them all. Tammy and Jonathan also spoke and were magnificent. The best, though, was the meet and greet after the lecture. I got to meet Dr. Peterson and he is just exactly the same face to face as he is on screen. He’s just himself. I felt a little bit like the Queen of Sheba: “The half had not been told!” I was so shy to approach him when it was my turn and he was so gentle and tender with the shy ones like me. And I got a chance to visit with him a bit and I got over being shy very quickly indeed. I can’t express how good it was to get to see him in person. My latest essay from Wrong Speak is out today. Entitled “In Pursuit of the White Deer: Jordan Peterson and the Legend of St. Eustace,” it draws comparisons between Dr. Peterson and the second century saint who had an unusual vision of Christ our Lord. Love from Ruth Anne

@ezekielcarsella Ай бұрын

What did he talk about in Boston? In Charleston he and Pageau talked about identity and it was really really good. Like I said to Rafe Kelly he really dovetailed with a lot of the topics in the little corner (the importance of play, the role of identity, hierarchy, mapping, etc) quite nicely and he was much more polished than i was expecting. Wish I could've shaken his hand though haha.

@emmereffing Ай бұрын

You missed the biggest hole in Dawkins argument: being free of all disease makes you infinitely more susceptible to disease. This is why many native populations are wiped out.

@Threnodist1 Ай бұрын

Immune systems are anti-fragile.

@Magnulus76 Ай бұрын

Behind the clash of ideologies, there's mimetic desire. Everybody wants to be seen doing good more than actually being good.

@esterhudson5104 Ай бұрын

👏👏

@jimluebke3869 Ай бұрын

"Moral reasoning courses, in which he received the highest of grades" Yeah, whenever I hear about an Ivy League ethicist weighing in on some subject, I brace myself for some of the most evil sewage I've ever heard.

@williambranch4283 Ай бұрын

They burned the Great Books in 1960.

@agapologia Ай бұрын

"I'm a pragmatist, and I think Christianity works better." This is actually the main issue I have with *how JBP formulates* his stance on the truth of Christianity or just the existence of God. It's quite pragmatic/evolutionary. I would hope that the truth of something does not at all depend on whether or not it "works". If there were suddenly no more theists, that would not at all change the fact that God exists.

@williambranch4283 Ай бұрын

Americans are winsome thru pragmatism. If there is some propositional absolute truth, then we are damned.

@zenden6564 Ай бұрын

I agree with you. But nonetheless JP's lectures on the bible were fascinating and worthwhile. I'd put him in the doubting Thomas category. I have no doubt as he ages he will eventually have a Paul on the Road to Damascus moment.

@agapologia Ай бұрын

@@zenden6564 💯

@soulfuzz368 Ай бұрын

That’s why he is the perfect gateway to Christianity for those raised in a secular “enlightened rationalism” sort of frame. You might think people are coming to Christianity in the wrong way because of his pragmatism but I promise that most of these people wouldn’t have made it otherwise.

@agapologia Ай бұрын

@@soulfuzz368 💯 (I personally know a few such folks). I think JBP is doing fantastic, necessary work.

@jimluebke3869 Ай бұрын

"Instrumentalizing Christianity for the sake of a nation is a profound sin" True. God would let an empire fall to save a single soul. On the other hand, it's not wrong to love your homeland and all the people in it, and want what is best for them, (that is, returning to Christianity) rather than knowing that the alternative is to watch it all continue to crumble and burn. It's also right and proper to establish institutions that will help with this, and favor those institutions over those that are harmful to that end. While this is mostly the institutions of civil society, it is not wrong for government institutions to be formed by this as well.

@williambranch4283 Ай бұрын

Everybody should be everything ... is Pan-daemonium ... all devils. Jim, you are the only person still living in the 18th century.

@carlotapuig Ай бұрын

Using Christianity for strengthening a Christian nation and the well-being of its people is a profound act of kindness and goodness in my book.

@jimluebke3869 Ай бұрын

@@williambranch4283 You'd be surprised how much really hasn't change since then, because it really doesn't change. =) People, for instance.

@MonstersNotUnderTheBed Ай бұрын

And what about race/bloodlines? All previous Christian European nations are being flooded by Third World brown skins.

@williambranch4283 Ай бұрын

@@jimluebke3869 I am getting erased today ...

@brendonlake1522 Ай бұрын

The part where Ayaan gets asked about whether she regrets her part in the "new Atheism" and she says yes. Dawkins finches like he's been slapped in the face!

@williambranch4283 Ай бұрын

The French/Russian/Chinese/Cuban Revolution is scientific, progressive ... it can't be stopped because time can't be stopped. Funny how time brings entropy not Omega Point.

@jimluebke3869 Ай бұрын

To be fair, she might not have the same impact now if she (and her public image) had not been formed by that experience.

@williambranch4283 Ай бұрын

@@jimluebke3869 Karl Marx was the ultimate cringe college student.

@stevecass7575 Ай бұрын

Hey Paul, can I have $10 for every time you say 'I think Tom Holland is right'? I don't want to have to work again! 🤣

@papercut7141 Ай бұрын

Glad to see you sticking with non-controversial titles

@MrMarccj Ай бұрын

Yes, it has to be voluntary. No, not everyone will volunteer. For those that don't, rules, regulations, governments, etc. are necessary.

@williambranch4283 Ай бұрын

Fake volunteers, all the way down ;-(

@richardparks4449 Ай бұрын

You have a CDC misinformation blurb on this one regarding HIV lol

@alohm Ай бұрын

I find it odd that it is framed as a Believe or not believe in God rather than Love or good works, to turn towards truth? So once again it becomes a "are you with us or against us" when we are all with, but none too much....

@inlightconsulting9456 Ай бұрын

Hey Paul. Rob here. For me, this is one of the more helpful videos of yours I have watched in a while. It seems something is coalescing. I really think a conversation on the principles of transformation would be helpful to you and TLC. Transformation is not only a process, but a framework for relationality. I haven’t figured out the hack to get on your calendar. I’ve become a member of the channel. What’s next? Have a strong day in the Lord.

@sharonlouise9759 Ай бұрын

In some ways I like where we're at. Culturally we're experiencing what there "is" without Christianity. Ultimately, I believe that the "end" of all of this will show that there is nothing else out there that is like Christianity. There is nothing suitable to replace it. I think one of the things they're missing is the profound change which happens to a person when they embrace Jesus relationally. The motivations of the Christian in relationship with God is not " ideas" or "secular things written out on paper." To me its like looking at a robot and expecting it to be human. They can only go with the robot so far, but it can never replace the human. Christian ideals are good because they are based in reality, but without Christ they lack meaning, substance and power.

@Fool0f4Took Ай бұрын

It's interesting that secularism often gets talked about as though it's a static Thing, fully cooked, a done deal.

@williambranch4283 Ай бұрын

Heraclitus laughs at all of you

@Fool0f4Took Ай бұрын

Huzzah

@freedomslunch Ай бұрын

And the default "neutral" position.

@williambranch4283 Ай бұрын

@@freedomslunch Satan isn't neutral

@freedomslunch Ай бұрын

@@williambranch4283 He certainly isn't

@11111Garth Ай бұрын

Gotta love the community note tag. Lol!

@TheAnadromist Ай бұрын

Excellent overview here Paul. I look forward to discussing the 'where we are' question further with you on Monday.

@vngelicath1580 Ай бұрын

Vervaeke's talk about "Post-nominalist realism" is interesting in light of his longtime emphasis on emergent/emanation.

@williambranch4283 Ай бұрын

Emanation matters who is doing the emanating.

@jills1521 Ай бұрын

I think the description from Professor Joshua Mitchell of secular demonstrations is one worth repeating. He calls it 'innocence signaling.' He and his book American Awakening speak in multiple important ways to the secularization/atheism happening all around us.

@williambranch4283 Ай бұрын

You and I are of our generation ... but ironically on opposite sides of the protest. We weren't all MJ socialists ;-)

@marcusshera1232 Ай бұрын

Hume's is/ought distinction was a throwaway line btw. Just putting that out there.

@jimluebke3869 Ай бұрын

To compete with the outlandish appeal of waving cardboard on a stick, Christians should bring back pilgrimage. Putting yourself into an unfamiliar situation with an attitude of exploration, a sense of camaraderie and shared purpose, and the approval of authority figures reflecting your highest aspirations, scratches the same kinds of itches as the traditional sit-down march that I witnessed when I went to university. There was a youth conference I went to when I was a kid (in New Orleans, of all places) that hit a number of those points, but it would have been improved greatly by going somewhere other than New Orleans.

@williambranch4283 Ай бұрын

Prots ended pilgrimage and a lot more.

@jimluebke3869 Ай бұрын

@@williambranch4283 When I was as kid I went with a tour with other Lutherans to Wittenberg, Wartburg, and similar places.

@williambranch4283 Ай бұрын

@@jimluebke3869 Did you need Wart remover later? ;-)

@williambranch4283 Ай бұрын

Oughts from what is? Easy in Cultural Christianity ... Jesus smuggling.

@esterhudson5104 Ай бұрын

😂

@stevemcgee99 Ай бұрын

12:00 I watched the debate on a channel and I’m pretty sure the explicit description of the attack was missing. I do not remember hearing it.

@faturechi Ай бұрын

19:00 So Calvin has ALWAYS been Commie?

@sosaysthecaptain5580 Ай бұрын

The logic of "well, it's metaphorically true and useful" is what made me an atheist when I was fifteen. I have very little use for people who like Christianity for this reason.

@EricYoungArt Ай бұрын

Mono-Religious civilization vs Poly-religious civilization. Interesting that's where the atheist argument has devolved into.

@williambranch4283 Ай бұрын

The 20th century Hells will ally with anyone, even with the US, with Islam. G-d/theism has nothing to do with any of this. I will take a civilized atheist over an uncivilized theist. But IMHO ... theism-based civilization has more spine.

@williambranch4283 Ай бұрын

Atheism is as much meta-paganism as meta-Protestantism. Aleister Crowley.

@EsseQuamViderity Ай бұрын

Serpentza is such a good channel

@williambranch4283 Ай бұрын

"Many commit the same crime with a very different result. One bears a cross for his crime; another a crown." - Juvenal's Satires. See how Roman Christianity is?

@erics4802 Ай бұрын

Serpent Zed A (British "z")

@yankeegonesouth4973 Ай бұрын

Yeah, that guy is from the South African part of Zuid Africa, I believe. ;)

@freedomslunch Ай бұрын

40:43 Vervaeke's true nature peaking out here. The arrogance of telling Christians what true Christianity is, civilization building code he has benefited from and now wants to deny, attempting to contain Christianity to a moral ethics without a personal and arenic God, without the Great Commission and the Great Commandment, and without an eschatology.

@steveleibering4341 Ай бұрын

Paul it does seem the secular sector has its origins in the Protestant Church. Nietzsche made the claim every Protestant would have to have their own church. I don’t think this is necessarily true but what has seemed to happen instead is groups have taken sola Scripture and as Jonathan has pointed too “all thing necessarily will have a hierarchy.” so what the Church 3.0 (1.0 being Catholic 2.0 being Protestant ) and the secular culture have done is put one scripture at the top, that being “do unto others.” The problem is the highest sola scripture without John V’s notion of background practices leave the jar of wisdom empty.

@esterhudson5104 Ай бұрын

Finally. The main point is made. 👍

@TrebizondMusic-cm6fp Ай бұрын

I've been reflecting on all this in relation to the Book of Mormon. The main civilization it tells of had religious tolerance but was Christian-based. An agitator who claimed to be atheist actively worked against the stability of the society under cover of his right to freedom of conscience and eventually ran afoul of the secular government (this is in Alma chapter 30). Since that society didn't exactly have the separation of Church and State that we do, the secular authority and the religious authority were closely allied, and the religious authority cursed the agitator with muteness. Careful attention to this account brings up subtleties that this video conversation is helping to highlight: that agitator's message bore a striking resemblance to "critical consciousness" and "liberation" ideologies, and if a rebellious liberatory nihilism has weakened our technocratic society, imagine what it did to preindustrial ones! And in fact, the societies told of in the Book of Mormon finally did succumb to corruption and destroyed themselves. The surviving chroniclers had little hope for our civilization unless we all repent.

@williambranch4283 Ай бұрын

Zechariah father of John the Baptist?

@anselman3156 Ай бұрын

Do you think the Book of Mormon is actual history, or a sort of allegorical work?

@bookpaper105 Ай бұрын

lunatic alert

@TrebizondMusic-cm6fp Ай бұрын

@@anselman3156 At one time I was ok with it being mere myth; now I trust that the people and events it tells of actually existed and took place. Its authors deliberately gave scant attention to history anyway: they had other priorities.

@TrebizondMusic-cm6fp Ай бұрын

@@williambranch4283 Hm? No, the man I was referring to was named Korihor.

@erics4802 Ай бұрын

...and of course one could easily draw connecting lines between the woke gnostic, alchemy, & nominalism... the disassociation from what is and what is imagined or hoped to be and the attempt to alter as opposed to describe with language.

@williambranch4283 Ай бұрын

Perennialism psychopathy ;-)

@Secretname951 Ай бұрын

Spicy title! 🌶️ 🥵

@bscottc1 Ай бұрын

The problem with these discussions today, is that between the bread, circuses and addiction to cell phones, who has time for Schopenhauer, Nietzsche and Kierkegaard, or Levi-Strauss, Foucault, and Derrida for that matter.

@elektrotehnik94 Ай бұрын

You want to give us a take-away? I prescribe a rando convo - to heal you of your anxiety of "needing to give >a nugget of wisdom

@Phlebas9202 Ай бұрын

Ayaan is correct about the universities and anti-semitism. In Canada the student unions that run the protests are all led by students who did their undergrad in Iran.

@williambranch4283 Ай бұрын

Well, you could have AEC or SBC missionaries from Montgomery Alabama on your Campus ;-) Eh?

@rossmcguinn2256 Ай бұрын

I was just about to comment the exact opposite lol. Islam is definitely growing in popularity among young men, but to blame Islam for "antisemitism" in America is just not true. At least, I don't see it at all from where I'm standing, and find it highly unlikely.

@williambranch4283 Ай бұрын

@@rossmcguinn2256 Anti-Semitism is the US is from Left and Right ... Islam has only local power in the US. The college demos are funded internationally.

@Phlebas9202 Ай бұрын

@@rossmcguinn2256 in this very particular context I see it but Canada is intentionally "post-national" so it's considered "beautiful" to have a variety of perspectives.

@rossmcguinn2256 Ай бұрын

@@Phlebas9202 Wow, "post-national", that is quite a word. I'll pray for you, Canada.

@williambranch4283 Ай бұрын

I am a person who traditionally pays attention to things well beyond Sacramento ;-) ... at least since the growth of the Internet.

@jimluebke3869 Ай бұрын

Growing up listening to "News 74" in the Central Valley, gave me the idea that what happened in cities (especially San Francisco) was very, very different than what happened everywhere else. (Not to mention, completely degenerate.) It's been horrifying to see San Francisco attitudes spread, with the Internet. I'm thankful that with the decimation of Sand Hill Road (Silicon Valley venture capital) and the collapse of San Francisco as an sales executive playground, that's fading away, and that particular type of insanity continue to decline in influence until we as a culture return to sanity.

@williambranch4283 Ай бұрын

@@jimluebke3869 Shit flows downhill ... Sacramento to San Fran.

@maxdoubt5219 Ай бұрын

So the question is: can a society be mostly atheist and be happy and prosperous? It's happening now, so...yes.

@handuke Ай бұрын

I suppose the actual question is: can it last? You could argue that the gradual increase of atheism is gradually making room for alternative moral systems. We're still coasting but there might come a point when the moral inertia from christianity is gone and we're left adrift without adequately guiding principles to stay happy and prosperous.

@soulfuzz368 Ай бұрын

The prosperity came before the atheism though. Time will tell if the atheism can maintain the prosperity. I think of atheism sort of like democracy, they are decadent luxuries only workable after a strong and prosperous nation has already been built.

@MrMarccj Ай бұрын

Hi Paul, I'm only 24 minutes in *but*... I have a blank sheet when it comes to 'the church' and I'm peering in, scratching my head and asking 'what is this?' My current summary is 'a basket case with a few too many spikes'. And having pondered this a while I think that it must be so, unfortunately. And watching this video I'm asking 'what is the role of the church?'. I'm fairly confident it's not activism. My previous assumption, based on the idea that Christ is rather high, and God somewhat higher, then the role of the church is to help bridge the gap. No? As far as I can tell, this bridging function is almost, if not completely, absent and the real interest of the church is survival. Then my question becomes, surviving for what purpose? One argument may be 'to hold together the fabric of the western world' but this appears to me to be impossible if the bridging function is neglected. Or maybe I've missed something?

@williambranch4283 Ай бұрын

Meaning crisis. Nihilists agree, being human is at best pointless and at worst pernicious.

@knightrider585 Ай бұрын

Isn't Michael Shermer believing ideas are real by being a "moral realist" a supernatural belief?

@skylinefever Ай бұрын

When I read an argument for religions, I joke that otakus and weebs go Shinto. I say it sometimes because I worked in auto repair. I saw a lot more moral purity in gow Shinto people screwed together most of their cars.

@WGPower_Nonchalant_Cafe Ай бұрын

100° out there in California bro! Make sure you drink lots of water

@inlightconsulting9456 Ай бұрын

7:43 - “Belief in Christianity”? Did you mean something else? Or am I not following the point well? Are we to believe in the religion?

@knightrider585 Ай бұрын

If people want a return to Christianity then that's what they should do: focus on church and prayer and repentance. Using Christianity as a tool subordinated to politics is not Christian, it is just secularism wearing a Christ mask. If we reject God, God withdraws, and the Babylonians invade. The problem is not God and not the Babylons, it is our faithlessness.

@freedomslunch Ай бұрын

1:05:49 This is the heart of my argument against legal Christian nationalism. All nations are called to be Christian, but not through laws, but through the great commandment and the great commission.

@bookpaper105 Ай бұрын

why does this comment seem to be against christian nationalism but your other comment the one where vervaeke is speaking(although i think its hermes actually speaking lol) and you are criticizing him for being against christian nationalism? are you for it or against it

@freedomslunch Ай бұрын

@@bookpaper105 I am not against Christian nationalism. I'm against "legal" Christian nationalism. All nations are called to be Christian ones. But how? While preserving the "freedom" to reject God. I think the Christian nationalists of today are mostly for the "legal" Christianity.

@bookpaper105 Ай бұрын

@@freedomslunch what is your view of the government professing the Christian faith as its ultimate standard? i dont believe in forcing someone to be Christian but I do believe in enforcing laws that defend the Christian faith that the government stands for. would you agree?

@freedomslunch Ай бұрын

@@bookpaper105 I would. The government must not impede the "church." Beyond that, there's grey areas. Forcing righteousness and orthodoxy, however, is clearly unbiblical IMHO.

@bookpaper105 Ай бұрын

@@freedomslunch my question wasnt very clear so i apologize you answered it perfectly but to get a more pin point answer whats your stance on something like gay marriage because something like that could be intertwined with righteousness and orthodoxy when arguing with the other side. i would say being gay isnt illegal but as a christian government no you cant be married. and its not recognized as a romantic couple they are just single people living together. nor could you promote the lifestyle.

@jimluebke3869 Ай бұрын

"There are only a few people who can handle atheism, and I know all of them." "Handle" meaning "be atheistic without using it as an excuse for bad behavior that Christianity would otherwise be necessary to counteract."

@vngelicath1580 Ай бұрын

And how much is atheism just secularized protestantism. Once the protestantism loses its residual potency, secular can look like just about anything.

@williambranch4283 Ай бұрын

Satan marched thru the Universities. That battle is lost. Defund colleges and fund on-line Classics education circa 1954.

@jimluebke3869 Ай бұрын

@@vngelicath1580 Secular progressivism often looks like a crooked half-spider, or a hammer and sickle.

@williambranch4283 Ай бұрын

@@vngelicath1580 Hail Mammon ... power, money and fame.

@bscottc1 Ай бұрын

Think about the opioid epidemic, or other drugs like alcohol and cannabis. We have every comparative advantage here in the U.S., but folks still succumb to vice despite the spiritual and material opportunities. There is something more at play than the opportunity to choose between the various isms an anities, something more basic and fundamental.

@theHermitcrabshow Ай бұрын

Could you explain how hinduism is a western invention?

@bscottc1 Ай бұрын

Comparing Christianity and Nihilism is comparing mole hills. Throughout it's 2000 years of history, what utter, horrific total human depravity (take that Calvin) has it really prevented? The answer is none - it has made things slightly less bad at best. This of course is taken from afar - up close you bet it matters. Even a fly tries to escape being swatted.

@DanHowardMtl Ай бұрын

36:30 Dawkins' final point is so ridonculously wrong that it's mind blowing. He appeals to fantasy!

@KevinMakins Ай бұрын

Wow. Love Johns critique of Christian nationalism at 41:00. Beautifully said.

@williambranch4283 Ай бұрын

Islam conquering the world ... Narrative ... is no different than Christian "mission civilicatrice" of the 19th century. Both Catholic and Protestant colonizers were involved.